highaltitude.log.20090301

[00:02] <shellevil> aautomatic resend - will this be upset at the light speed delays?
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> shouldnt be
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> its just packet radio
[00:03] <shellevil> the zigbee chips
[00:03] <Laurenceb_> not sure about zigbee but I think that will be ok as well - I've seen some long range examples
[00:03] <shellevil> it's just packet radio - but if you run out of counter somewhere
[00:03] <shellevil> same as GPS and high altitude. - sorta
[00:03] <Laurenceb_> with that dish range is around 250Km range
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[00:06] <Laurenceb_> http://www.oxfordtec.com/uk/Wireless-Antennae-/-Aerials/c50/p210/Gigabyte-GN-AT2180Y-18dBi-2.4GHz-IOutdoor-Directional-Yagi-Antenna-Wireless-Antenna---N-female-connector/product_info.html
[00:07] <Laurenceb_> is slightly more sensible than a huge dish - sorry huge url
[00:09] <shellevil> 18dB...
[00:10] <Laurenceb_> enough for 80Km range at 250Kbps
[00:10] <Laurenceb_> that would be pretty cool
[00:10] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-146-165-98.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[00:11] <shellevil> 30-40cm dish'd be the equiv I think
[00:11] appletizer (i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk) left irc:
[00:14] <Laurenceb_> nebula prize is using 868 zigbee with a dish
[00:16] <gordonjcp> I've got a couple of old Telex 2.4GHz yagis you can have
[00:16] <gordonjcp> you'll probably need to put new coax on
[00:17] <Laurenceb_> I dont think 2.4 is legal
[00:17] <Laurenceb_> its still interesting to see whats possible
[00:17] <Laurenceb_> thanks for the offer
[00:22] <Laurenceb_> its interesting that the nebula guy has chosen 868 zigbee - he seems to really be on the ball
[00:28] <Laurenceb_> guess he had doppler to think about
[00:47] Tigga (n=chatzill@pc-232-235-103.magd.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[01:07] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc:
[01:07] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[01:12] jiffe88 (n=jiffe2@209.159.247.189) joined #highaltitude.
[01:13] <jiffe88> anyone know of a good way to track horizontal location within 100m radius with sub meter precision about 10 times a second or so?
[01:13] sYx66 (n=wooh@207.112.84.65) left irc: "bye"
[01:13] <Laurenceb_> ultrasound?
[01:18] <jiffe88> I had looked for ultrasound devices, didn't see anything that was really for outdoor use or > 60'
[01:18] <SpeedEvil> GPS
[01:18] <SpeedEvil> Do you care about price?
[01:18] <jiffe88> depends on the price :)
[01:18] <SpeedEvil> there are GPS solutions - differential GPS - that can _easily_ do that.
[01:19] <jiffe88> hmm, I didn't think gps would give you accurate readings below a meter
[01:19] <SpeedEvil> I don't know the exact price - 1K?
[01:19] <SpeedEvil> I think you can also rent
[01:20] <jiffe88> so this is an ultra precise device then, not just something off the shelf
[01:20] <SpeedEvil> no, it's off the shelf
[01:20] <SpeedEvil> it's just off the more expensive shelf than your average car navigation GPS
[01:20] <Laurenceb_> I say a device using rotating lights off a digger
[01:20] <Laurenceb_> forgotten what they are called
[01:21] <Laurenceb_> then they measured the time difference between flashes
[01:21] <Laurenceb_> do you have line of sight?
[01:22] <jiffe88> I do, this is actually 1 dimensional distance
[01:22] <Laurenceb_> oh ok
[01:22] <gordonjcp> Laurenceb_: wouldn't it be quite hard to do that?
[01:22] <Laurenceb_> what are you doing?
[01:22] <SpeedEvil> what're you doing?
[01:23] <gordonjcp> the flashes aren't "sharp" and the beacons aren't necessarily running very steadily
[01:23] <Laurenceb_> gordonjcp: they sinced them using a datacable
[01:23] <Laurenceb_> they dont have to be sharp if you use a uC to process them
[01:23] <jiffe88> I'm trying to come up with a function of velocity for 100m sprints
[01:23] <Laurenceb_> they used modulated IR as well
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> jiffe92: for humans?
[01:23] <jiffe88> yeah
[01:24] <Laurenceb_> it was for aircraft precision approach
[01:24] <SpeedEvil> So you care about weight I guess.
[01:24] <SpeedEvil> I suppose a 100m string with knots every m is out?
[01:24] <jiffe88> yeah lightweight would be preferable
[01:25] <SpeedEvil> what's the budget?
[01:25] <jiffe88> actually I hadn't thought of that approach
[01:25] <Laurenceb_> I'd use a laser
[01:25] <Laurenceb_> theres laser ranger designs that are pretty simple
[01:26] <SpeedEvil> Do you really need updates at 10Hz?
[01:26] <Laurenceb_> venus gps :P
[01:26] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: not +-1m
[01:26] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[01:26] <Laurenceb_> laser ranger is doable
[01:26] <SpeedEvil> light-gates are lots easier
[01:26] <Laurenceb_> use an oscillator design
[01:27] <jiffe88> I do, because I'm analyzing small parts of the sprint
[01:27] <Laurenceb_> ie. oscillator with photodiode as a feedback path
[01:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.vboxusa.com/products.php
[01:28] <SpeedEvil> has lots of stuff that would suit
[01:28] <SpeedEvil> but it's mostly ~500g
[02:04] <Laurenceb_> cya all
[02:04] Laurenceb_ (i=83e3dd23@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-63cbbc923f64474d) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[06:03] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[08:58] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[09:15] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[09:35] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-146-165-98.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:38] <jcoxon> morning
[10:03] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[10:04] <rjharrison_> morning all
[10:15] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison_
[10:20] fergusnoble (n=fergusno@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[10:20] <rjharrison_> hi jcoxon
[10:20] <rjharrison_> aNY ONE ELSE READY TO LAUINCH YET
[10:21] <rjharrison_> opps
[10:21] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:22] <jcoxon> nope launches :-p
[10:22] <jcoxon> though cusf are testing their rocket today from the ground
[10:25] <rjharrison_> ooh
[10:25] <rjharrison_> sounds like fun
[10:25] <rjharrison_> I'm off walking next w/e
[10:25] <rjharrison_> so I hope we don't have launch weather
[10:25] <jcoxon> i don't think we will
[10:26] <jcoxon> its been a bad few months
[10:30] <jcoxon> rjharrison_, got the wiki up
[10:30] <jcoxon> having been thinking abouth the distributed listener system
[10:37] <rjharrison_> ok cool
[10:37] <jcoxon> was thinking a web page for incidential listeiers with data
[10:37] <rjharrison_> Do you want to send me a quick email as I have to take the kids out
[10:37] <rjharrison_> Yep that would be fine
[10:37] <jcoxon> and then improve the client for more commited people
[10:37] <rjharrison_> What would you like them to post
[10:37] <jcoxon> hmmm i'll have a think
[10:37] <rjharrison_> DATA + email and location
[10:37] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:37] <rjharrison_> + other stuff
[10:39] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCF1B.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)
[10:39] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCE76.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:17] Tigga (n=chatzill@pc-232-235-103.magd.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:42] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCE76.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "Verlassend"
[12:04] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-146-165-98.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[12:25] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCE76.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[15:41] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-146-165-98.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:58] sYx66 (n=wooh@207.112.84.65) joined #highaltitude.
[17:06] <jcoxon> hey sYx66
[17:08] <sYx66> hi
[17:10] <jcoxon> i was wondering if you'd looked into getting permission for a launch?
[17:10] <jcoxon> natrium said that it was your department :-)
[17:10] <sYx66> in progress
[17:10] <jcoxon> okay cool
[17:13] <sYx66> we're actually okay without permission, but i'm double checking
[17:14] <jcoxon> yeah i suspected that, its good though to let them know
[17:14] <jcoxon> just so that they don't get upset
[17:17] <jcoxon> hopefully wll be able to give about 5 to 6 days notice of a suitable launch date
[18:55] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:57] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[18:57] <edmoore> yo
[18:57] <jcoxon> how was the launch?
[18:57] <edmoore> good
[18:57] <edmoore> worked well
[18:57] <edmoore> 8884ft
[18:58] <jcoxon> excellent
[18:58] <edmoore> just broke mach
[18:58] <jcoxon> sweet
[18:58] <jcoxon> did it have a radio on it?
[18:59] <edmoore> yep
[18:59] <edmoore> landed 2-3 miles away
[18:59] <edmoore> picked up the gps coords from radio
[18:59] <edmoore> going to go for a wee drink at Castle now, back later
[18:59] <jcoxon> should have listened in!
[18:59] <jcoxon> oh well
[19:00] <jcoxon> cya later
[19:00] <edmoore> yeah we mentioned that actually
[19:00] <edmoore> you would almost certainly have heard it
[19:00] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:00] <edmoore> next time!
[19:00] <edmoore> right, bbl
[19:03] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[20:35] <rjharrison_> Evening all
[20:35] <rjharrison_> jcoxon I didn't realise they were sending it up in the air
[20:35] <rjharrison_> I thought it was a ground test
[20:35] <jcoxon> ground launch
[20:36] <rjharrison_> Ie a burn test not an actual flight
[20:36] <jcoxon> nah twas an actual flight
[20:36] <rjharrison_> Damn I would have listened in too
[20:36] <jcoxon> oh well
[20:36] <rjharrison_> hehe
[20:36] <jcoxon> next time, they'll fly again
[20:36] <rjharrison_> Do we have a pic of the rocket ye
[20:37] <rjharrison_> yet
[20:37] <rjharrison_> I thought they were still at the fabrication stage
[20:37] <jcoxon> i've seen a pic
[20:37] <jcoxon> but i can't remember where
[20:38] <rjharrison_> Cool
[20:38] <rjharrison_> I guess it's still low key
[20:38] <rjharrison_> getting kids from bath
[20:38] <jcoxon> okay
[21:01] <rjharrison_> kids down
[21:03] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison_
[21:03] <jcoxon> free to discuss listener?
[21:03] <rjharrison_> Just having a nose on teh CUSF site
[21:03] <rjharrison_> Ye
[21:03] <rjharrison_> yep sure
[21:03] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:03] <jcoxon> cool, whats the plan then?
[21:04] <rjharrison_> Talk here or 99?
[21:04] <rjharrison_> Seems quiet enough
[21:04] <jcoxon> here is fine
[21:05] <rjharrison_> Right you had better let me know what exactly you want random people to do
[21:06] <jcoxon> you happy to take on the radio listener job?
[21:06] <rjharrison_> Yep sure
[21:06] <rjharrison_> we can deal with a 100 or so poeple
[21:06] <rjharrison_> at the same time
[21:06] <rjharrison_> Posting data that is
[21:06] <jcoxon> okay
[21:06] <rjharrison_> So what do you envisage
[21:06] <jcoxon> what do you think about the 2 methods of data entry?
[21:07] <jcoxon> a client for commited people such as myself and you and natrium
[21:07] <rjharrison_> one buy our s/w and the second via a form?
[21:07] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:07] <jcoxon> what i thought would be amazing would have the client tell the server its running
[21:07] <rjharrison_> Yep that won't be a problem I can have that working by next w/e
[21:07] <jcoxon> and then have a list of people monitoring
[21:08] <rjharrison_> Well we know it's running as we get sent updates
[21:08] <rjharrison_> I guess you could send a data pack every 15 mins to say high
[21:08] <rjharrison_> hi
[21:08] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:09] <jcoxon> so that when we launch it says i'm online early in hte launch even though i won't be receiving
[21:09] <jcoxon> it'll give us an idea of what the set up is
[21:09] <rjharrison_> and after 15 mins we time you out with status last packet 12:35 3/3/2009
[21:09] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:09] <jcoxon> a sort of 'last seen' thingy
[21:10] <rjharrison_> yep
[21:11] <rjharrison_> basically the server will accept a data packet every 15 mins with the users id in it and then we will keep them active within a certain time frame and then put last seen after time out say one hour
[21:11] <jcoxon> that sounds good
[21:12] <jcoxon> i'm thinking is it worth making a windows client?
[21:12] <rjharrison_> the packet could even come to the same php script and I would just test the vars been posted
[21:12] <jcoxon> as python is slightly complicated to set up
[21:12] <rjharrison_> Humm, not sure
[21:12] <rjharrison_> I quite like your python approacj
[21:12] <jcoxon> perhaps i could bundle it into a binary
[21:13] <rjharrison_> it depends on how many listeners you are going to be expecting
[21:13] <rjharrison_> It's only going to work with fldigi
[21:13] <rjharrison_> or you are going to end up supporting multiple log file formats
[21:13] <jcoxon> true
[21:14] <rjharrison_> BTW your code works beautifully under linux
[21:14] <jcoxon> it runs under os x pretty well too
[21:14] <rjharrison_> hehe I assumed that was dev
[21:14] <jcoxon> one of the key sites will be EI5GTB in Ireland
[21:14] <jcoxon> he is perfectly placed
[21:15] <rjharrison_> great I think he has a linux box too
[21:15] <jcoxon> so i just need to clean up the client and add a 15min id thingy
[21:16] <rjharrison_> yep do you want the regulars to have an id on our server and they just send this over with the datagram?
[21:17] <rjharrison_> We could keep track of packets sent too if you like
[21:17] <jcoxon> perhaps when the client start its sends over ID+location
[21:17] <jcoxon> and then just updates with ID
[21:17] <jcoxon> even ID+location+radio+antenna all that info
[21:17] <jcoxon> then it just updates
[21:18] <rjharrison_> Will that change much or should we just get them to fill in a form for this data once
[21:18] <rjharrison_> Are they going to send it all in the command line each time
[21:18] <jcoxon> i guess it'll be pretty fixed
[21:18] <rjharrison_> or are you going to keep a local file with the data in
[21:19] <jcoxon> i think a local file might be best
[21:19] <rjharrison_> Well for a TA you are going to most likely be at base
[21:19] <jcoxon> i was thinking of adding a GUI
[21:19] <rjharrison_> To the client
[21:19] <rjharrison_> humm
[21:19] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:19] <jcoxon> optional gui
[21:19] <jcoxon> or perhaps an option in the commandline that asks q and writes to a local file
[21:19] <rjharrison_> In python, can you do that in a way that it is OS independent
[21:19] <rjharrison_> the GUI
[21:20] <jcoxon> maybe
[21:20] <jcoxon> but i'm thinking a setup option on the commandline might be best
[21:20] <rjharrison_> Yep ask a few q's with examples
[21:21] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:21] <rjharrison_> radio (Yaesu FT817nt)?
[21:21] <rjharrison_> blah blah blah
[21:22] <rjharrison_> Perhaps it should parse this file if it exists and puts in the same answer as befor
[21:22] <rjharrison_> save you rekeying the lot if you location changes
[21:22] <rjharrison_> hit enter 5 times and then put in your new lat and and long
[21:23] <jcoxon> yeah, good plan
[21:23] <rjharrison_> We could plot the listener positions on the map too
[21:23] <rjharrison_> humm that might not be so cool
[21:23] <rjharrison_> But it would work
[21:24] <rjharrison_> have you thought about the data you would like to record?
[21:24] <rjharrison_> radio antenna? lat/long name email ipaddress
[21:24] <jcoxon> on the map would be cool, sYx66 is working on the map bits
[21:25] <rjharrison_> ahh is that the google man
[21:25] <jcoxon> perhaps an checkbox to select that option
[21:25] <jcoxon> yeah i'm thinking:
[21:26] <jcoxon> callsign, lat, lon, alt, radio, antenna, email, ipaddress
[21:28] <jcoxon> but perhaps only require callsign/nick, lat lon and ipaddress
[21:28] <rjharrison_> ok
[21:35] borism (n=boris@195-50-201-163-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[21:41] borism__ (n=boris@195-50-207-113-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[21:44] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc:
[22:01] G8KHW_ (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.207) joined #highaltitude.
[22:02] <jcoxon> evening G8KHW_
[22:03] <G8KHW_> Yo
[22:04] <G8KHW_> Agrear launch today
[22:04] <G8KHW_> Sunny clear skys at tje end
[22:06] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCE76.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "Verlassend"
[22:07] <jcoxon> amazing
[22:07] <jcoxon> should have listened in with the radio to the cusf rocket
[22:09] <G8KHW_> That would have bee. I interesting - it v
[22:10] <G8KHW_> Got to 8.8k ft
[22:10] <jcoxon> thats a good altitude
[22:10] <jcoxon> now to stick it on a balloon \;-p
[22:11] <G8KHW_> Yeah
[22:36] <jcoxon> G8KHW_, do you think we should have a 10mW 70cm transmitter onboard atlantic halo for the UK and turn off HF if it makes it to the UK?
[22:40] G8KHW_ (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.207) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[22:43] G8KHW_ (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.207) joined #highaltitude.
[22:44] <G8KHW_> Jcoxon: good idea
[22:45] G8KHW__ (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.207) joined #highaltitude.
[22:45] G8KHW_ (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.207) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[22:45] <natrium42> hi
[22:46] Laurenceb (i=83e3dd23@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-48ef503f593284c8) joined #highaltitude.
[22:46] <Laurenceb> hello
[22:46] <jcoxon> hey natrium42, Laurenceb
[22:46] Action: Laurenceb just got back from ears
[22:46] <jcoxon> G8KHW__, okay i'll stick that on the wiki
[22:47] <jcoxon> G8KHW__, one question - are you going to have just MFSK or multiple protocols
[22:47] <Laurenceb> G8KHW_: hi there
[22:47] <Laurenceb> so you got MFSK working?
[22:48] <G8KHW__> Jcoxon: Just working on mfsk ot the mo
[22:49] <jcoxon> okay
[22:49] <Laurenceb> to what extent are you using lookup tables?
[22:51] G8KHW__ (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.207) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[22:52] <jcoxon> natrium42, i've added soem stuff to the wiki
[22:52] <jcoxon> and also i've linked it into my google analytics account as well
[22:53] <natrium42> cool, i have looked at the additions
[22:53] <natrium42> looks good
[22:53] Action: natrium42 needs to order parts for flight computer
[22:54] <jcoxon> cool
[22:54] <jcoxon> i'm trying to think of further jobs
[22:55] <jcoxon> i'll call up the valve people tomorrow if they don't email me
[22:56] G8KHW_ (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.207) joined #highaltitude.
[22:57] <natrium42> k
[22:58] <jcoxon> i think we are making progress :-p
[22:59] <jcoxon> natrium42, spoke to rjharrison about the listener - we are going to have a client program and also an online form to submit data through
[22:59] <Laurenceb> G8KHW_: is your code ready yet?
[23:06] G8KHW_ (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.207) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[23:23] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-146-165-98.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:25] sYx66 (n=wooh@207.112.84.65) left irc: "bye"
[23:57] fergusnoble (n=fergusno@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[00:00] --- Mon Mar 2 2009