highaltitude.log.20090218

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[01:00] Action: Laurenceb back
[01:00] Action: Laurenceb is now wasted as well as having a screwed pc
[01:00] <SpeedEvil> :/
[01:00] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[01:08] <Laurenceb> apparently malwarebytes fixes it...
[01:10] <Laurenceb> but there appear to be fake sites are forum postings by the look of it :-/
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[02:59] <natrium42> zomg, it's done
[02:59] <natrium42> http://www.natrium42.com/gallery2/v/balloon/transatlantic/
[03:34] <shellevil> :)
[03:35] <shellevil> What're the to220s?
[03:37] <natrium42> mosfets
[03:37] <natrium42> it's nice to have them to turn components on/off or for cutdowns
[03:39] <natrium42> also got 3 texas instruments dc-dc converters (up to 95% efficiency)
[03:39] <natrium42> they are controllable from micro as well
[03:41] <shellevil> ah
[03:42] <shellevil> 220 maybe a bit overkill :)
[03:42] <shellevil> but the weight isn't that bad.
[03:42] <natrium42> figured i might as well give them enough room
[03:42] <natrium42> can use TO92 or something instead
[03:43] <shellevil> true.
[03:43] <shellevil> Maybe also pad for sot23 or d-pak
[03:43] <natrium42> hmm
[03:43] <natrium42> if i have time
[03:45] <natrium42> this avr micro is damn crazy
[03:45] <natrium42> 4 UARTs
[03:45] <natrium42> :)
[03:45] <natrium42> that should eb enough for everybody
[03:45] <natrium42> eb=be
[03:46] <shellevil> satphone, gsm, gps, rtty
[03:47] <natrium42> hehe
[03:47] <natrium42> obviously it's possible to share them on one UART
[03:47] <natrium42> but it's easier to just use this avr -- less external parts
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[04:47] <natrium42> ping Laurenceb
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[05:11] <natrium42> ...
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[05:26] <Laurenceb> natrium42: pong
[05:32] <natrium42> Laurenceb, got a response
[05:32] <natrium42> "If under open sky and good signal condition, cold start TTFF is 29 seconds (same performance with VBAT tied to pin2 VCC3I)."
[05:33] <Laurenceb> ok... but you need at least one nav frame
[05:33] <Laurenceb> that doesnt really make sense
[05:34] <Laurenceb> VBAT tied != VBAT grounded
[05:34] <Laurenceb> its not completely clear
[05:35] <Laurenceb> guess theres only one way to find out
[05:35] <natrium42> http://rafb.net/p/OsmVIt13.html
[05:35] <natrium42> can you make sense of it?
[05:36] <natrium42> my email was http://rafb.net/p/RIaKgs82.html
[05:37] <Laurenceb> yeah their response is unclear
[05:37] <Laurenceb> they seem to dodge the question
[05:37] <natrium42> :/
[05:37] <natrium42> i sent another email
[05:37] <Laurenceb> but downloading and storing ephemeris is one solution
[05:37] <natrium42> that doesn't keep RTC
[05:38] <Laurenceb> maybe they just didnt understand your email
[05:38] <Laurenceb> true, but they say it only adds a couple of seconds
[05:38] <Laurenceb> that much seems to be clear
[05:39] <natrium42> if that's true, it's better for my application to store ephemeris manually]
[05:39] <Laurenceb> yeah
[05:39] <natrium42> don't really like the idea of lithium rechargables in a small device
[05:40] <Laurenceb> supercaps?
[05:42] <natrium42> hmm
[05:43] <Laurenceb> dunno how long one would run it for
[05:43] <natrium42> a small one might fit
[05:43] <Laurenceb> lassen iq says 20uA
[05:43] <Laurenceb> but mine is drawing less
[05:44] <Laurenceb> a day at most with a 1F cap
[05:44] <natrium42> it's not horrible
[05:44] <Laurenceb> not sure what size caps you can get now
[05:44] Action: Laurenceb looks on digikey
[05:46] <Laurenceb> mmmh aerosgel
[05:49] <Laurenceb> are there any specs on the VBAT current?
[05:49] <natrium42> hehe
[05:54] <Laurenceb> got it <10uA
[05:54] <Laurenceb> down to 1.5V
[05:55] <Laurenceb> so thats a 1.8v drop from 3.3
[05:55] <Laurenceb> 10 hours on a 0.2F cap
[05:56] <natrium42> which cap?
[05:57] <Laurenceb> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/US/DKSUS.dll?Detail&name=P14154-ND
[05:57] <Laurenceb> would work for a couple of days
[05:57] <Laurenceb> its a bit big
[05:59] <natrium42> my clearance is 2 mm
[05:59] <natrium42> err, 3mm
[06:00] <Laurenceb> dont follow
[06:00] <Laurenceb> vertically?
[06:00] <natrium42> yep
[06:00] <natrium42> RF series should work
[06:01] <Laurenceb> its 9.5mm ?
[06:02] <natrium42> aah, crap
[06:02] <natrium42> you're right
[06:02] <natrium42> and it's damn expensive anyway
[06:03] <Laurenceb> just stick a lithium cell on
[06:03] <natrium42> rechargeable coin cell is only $2 or so
[06:03] <natrium42> :S
[06:03] <Laurenceb> the 0.2F caps would be ok
[06:03] <Laurenceb> but thats only 10 hours
[06:03] <Laurenceb> I know
[06:04] <Laurenceb> 0.2F + solar cell :P
[06:04] <natrium42> lol XD
[06:04] <natrium42> RTG!!!
[06:04] <Laurenceb> haha
[06:04] <natrium42> hmm, trying to decide between antennas
[06:05] <natrium42> A10137 vs 152111
[06:05] <natrium42> i think i will make a proto for both
[06:05] <Laurenceb> sarantel?
[06:06] <natrium42> no, this is for my ds thingy
[06:10] <natrium42> http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/GPS/GPS-ChipAntenna.pdf vs http://antenova.com/?id=1203
[06:12] <Laurenceb> looks a lot better than sparkfun
[06:12] <Laurenceb> its RHCP for a start
[06:12] <Laurenceb> not linear
[06:16] <Laurenceb> should give better multipath
[06:16] <Laurenceb> and a stronger signal
[06:16] <natrium42> but the gain is smaller, no?
[06:16] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah
[06:17] <Laurenceb> sorry I didnt read all the way through
[06:17] <Laurenceb> the dBi is lower?
[06:17] <natrium42> 152111 claims ~1dBi
[06:18] <natrium42> "Gain (dbi) (Typical)"
[06:18] <Laurenceb> o its "elliptical"
[06:18] <Laurenceb> fairdoos
[06:18] <natrium42> ?
[06:20] <Laurenceb> ok yeah sparkfun is better
[06:20] <natrium42> maybe they skipped a minus sign?
[06:20] <natrium42> -1dBi?
[06:20] <natrium42> it's a much smaller antenna, i have them both
[06:21] <Laurenceb> yeah odd
[06:21] <Laurenceb> antenova seem to have done better testing
[06:22] <natrium42> yes
[06:22] <Laurenceb> so I'd trust them more...
[06:22] <natrium42> another option --> http://www.fractus.com/main/fractus/srw_1.575
[06:32] <Laurenceb> so many choices
[06:33] <Laurenceb> grr wish I could fix this malware
[06:33] <Laurenceb> malwarebytes didnt get it off
[06:37] <natrium42> Laurenceb, got a response
[06:37] <Laurenceb> cool
[06:37] <natrium42> http://rafb.net/p/mAbKtu43.html
[06:39] <Laurenceb> interesting
[06:40] <Laurenceb> guess the weak signal difference means it uses the RTC to avoid frequency search
[06:41] <Laurenceb> but I still dont see how <30 seconds is possible
[06:41] <Laurenceb> I mean yes if your lucky and get the right nav data straight away
[06:42] <Laurenceb> but I think its going to take around 40s in most cases
[06:42] <Laurenceb> still - it does appear to be much better than lassen iq
[06:42] <natrium42> :)
[06:43] <natrium42> they also sent me a bunch of documents on how to make the design
[06:43] <natrium42> looks like i made some mistakes :P
[06:43] <Laurenceb> neat
[06:43] <Laurenceb> looks like with a strong signal you'll be fine
[06:43] <natrium42> they recommend separating RF ground and digital ground
[06:43] <Laurenceb> guess it does 1ms or so aquisition
[06:44] <Laurenceb> interesting
[06:44] <natrium42> i thought that would create ground loops
[06:44] <natrium42> so i didn't separate them
[06:45] <natrium42> they say that RF_GND and GND are connected inside the chip through a single point
[06:45] <natrium42> so no need to connect them externally
[06:45] <Laurenceb> right
[06:45] <natrium42> and no ground loops :)
[06:45] <Laurenceb> hmm... sounds a bit of a pain to lay out
[06:45] <natrium42> nah, i can send you the docs if you want
[06:46] <natrium42> the chip pinout is very smart
[07:06] <Laurenceb> arg this is driving me mad
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[07:53] <Laurenceb> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=CLA289-ND
[07:53] <Laurenceb> ^ natrium42
[07:54] <natrium42> hahaha
[07:54] <natrium42> :P
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[09:00] Action: Laurenceb has tested the mini rogallo cutdown
[09:00] <Laurenceb> works nicely :P
[09:00] <Laurenceb> unfortunately the servo is oscillating
[09:01] <Laurenceb> looks like the torque from the servo is warping the enclosure causing feedback through the rate gyro
[09:02] <Laurenceb> hopefully its just caused by the weay its clamped
[09:02] <Laurenceb> I need to suspend it from the ceiling
[09:32] <natrium42> woot, i found them!
[09:32] <Laurenceb> ?
[09:32] <natrium42> floppies
[09:33] <natrium42> trying to restore my scope
[09:33] <Laurenceb> ah
[09:34] <natrium42> http://www.natrium42.com/gallery2/v/misc/la/
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[10:55] <Laurenceb> :-S
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> :/
[11:09] Action: SpeedEvil haz dealextreme parcel!.
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: dimensions of the pen-cam - just without the pen bit plugged in and not stripped.
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> 15.5 dia 88 long
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> says it wants 400mA (usb)
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> partition table is screwed - so I'm backing it all up before screwing with it
[11:27] <Laurenceb> nice
[11:27] <Laurenceb> I'm wondering if it would fit in the boor of my mini rogallo
[11:27] <Laurenceb> *door
[11:28] <Laurenceb> with a small mirror to direct the view
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> The camera is in the centre of the side of the camera part alone
[11:29] <Laurenceb> ok
[11:29] <Laurenceb> are you going to strip it?
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> halfway along, straight out
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> First I'm going to get it working :)
[11:30] <Laurenceb> :P
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> It seems unformatted - I'm unsure what's going on with it.
[11:30] <Laurenceb> you think it uses some sort of cylindrical lithium cell?
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> one of the comments said it did.
[11:31] <Laurenceb> I see
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> implied
[11:31] <Laurenceb> should be possible to rig it up to one of the rails on the roggl
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> The pen part seems to work OK.
[11:31] <Laurenceb> hehe
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:31] <Laurenceb> I was thinking pcb embedded in the door
[11:32] <Laurenceb> with the camera sticking out and a 45 degree mirror a few mm square
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> that prolly works too.
[11:32] <Laurenceb> the door is 3.5mm thick fopam
[11:32] <Laurenceb> think I can tap one of the lipo cells
[11:33] <Laurenceb> theres two 2000mah cells in series
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[11:34] <Laurenceb> does it turn off when its full?
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> dunno.
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> 4G
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> first backing up the 4G at USB1
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[11:57] <Laurenceb> is it working?
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> usb1
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> 2.3G
[11:57] <Laurenceb> :-/
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> 3
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[12:44] <Laurenceb> finito?
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - hung at the end
[12:55] Action: shellevil sighs.
[12:55] Action: shellevil pressed the wrong button and rebooted.
[12:58] <shellevil> ah
[12:58] Action: shellevil feels silly.
[12:58] <shellevil> It has no partition table - the filesystem is on the raw device.
[12:59] <shellevil> Works - but I have a view of the dark underside of my other computer when it was charging.
[12:59] <shellevil> 220M/10 mins
[13:00] <Laurenceb> ~3 hours
[13:01] <shellevil> need to read manual
[13:01] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1869728
[13:01] <Laurenceb> interesting
[13:02] <Laurenceb> a quadcopter with motors rotating in same direction
[13:03] <Laurenceb> quite neat... guess it saves on blades
[13:10] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1886332
[13:10] <Laurenceb> looks like they really skimped on that :P
[13:10] <Laurenceb> IR and peizo gyros
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[13:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1914855
[13:30] <shellevil> `some reports indicate that it's _really_ slow to charge
[13:31] <shellevil> so I'm leaving it for 12h
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[13:50] <Laurenceb> hello eigenfriends
[13:52] <gordonjcp> I miss eigenradio
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[14:11] <Laurenceb> I'd love to know what micro that quadcopter uses
[14:16] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2007282 its not a pic is it?
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[18:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=365
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[18:19] <Laurenceb> http://www.fizoptika.ru/products/catalog/vg941-3as.html
[18:25] Action: Laurenceb drools
[18:42] Action: shellevil haz no DNS.
[18:42] <shellevil> Or something.
[18:42] <Laurenceb> did you get the video working?
[18:43] <Laurenceb> oh yeah I remember....
[18:43] <shellevil> Well...
[18:43] <Laurenceb> have you stripped it down?
[18:43] <shellevil> I'm not completely sure I've not broken the button
[18:43] <shellevil> It's got a red light on.
[18:43] <shellevil> If it's not working when I get up tomorrow, I'll strip it down.
[18:44] <Laurenceb> is it recording atm?
[18:46] <shellevil> no
[18:47] <shellevil> Charging ATM.
[18:48] <Laurenceb> I see
[18:49] <Laurenceb> cya
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[19:22] <Laurenceb> hi again
[19:27] <shellevil> hi again
[19:29] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/7897688.stm
[19:29] <Laurenceb> sounds awsome
[19:31] <shellevil> sounds awsome
[19:32] Action: Laurenceb is a homosexual
[19:34] <shellevil> I see
[19:34] <Laurenceb> notacopy
[19:35] <shellevil> In bed ATM. Original content requires reaching out into the cold for keyb.
[19:36] <shellevil> :)
[19:38] <natrium42> Laurenceb, yeah, only on IRC< though
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[19:51] <mc-> Hi Laurenceb
[19:52] <mc-> I got a reply from the DominoEX designer, he agreed that it should be 19 tones
[19:53] <mc-> but decided in the end to risk having ocassional intersymbol interference
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[22:44] <SpeedEvil> mc: why should it not be 19 tones? Is there a reason other than deployed code?
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> oh
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[23:17] <Laurenceb> natrium42:http://englishrussia.com/images/submitted_photos_08/4.jpg
[23:34] <natrium42> Laurenceb, haha, you can read russian?
[23:35] <Laurenceb> :P
[23:36] <Laurenceb> there was an english translation
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> not on the bare image
[23:44] <natrium42> jcoxon, i am planning to test the controller & gps & satellite on latex balloon launch
[23:44] <natrium42> got two spare 1200 balloons
[23:44] <jcoxon> okay sounds like an excellent plan
[23:45] <jcoxon> i'm running some hysplit models - is there a risk that you might cross US airspace
[23:45] <jcoxon> ?
[23:45] <natrium42> hm, depends on where it's launched right?
[23:45] <natrium42> speaking of that, we need to decide where to launch from
[23:45] <natrium42> they will probably ask me that
[23:45] <jcoxon> whats reasonalbe?
[23:46] <natrium42> the easiest is of course to launch from where i live
[23:46] <natrium42> should i maybe create a list of potential launch locations?
[23:46] <jcoxon> would be a good idea
[23:46] <jcoxon> i guess the more east the better
[23:46] <natrium42> and you can monitor the hysplit model to chose one
[23:47] <jcoxon> but there is quite a chance that we'll need to launch in a hurry
[23:47] <natrium42> k
[23:47] <natrium42> how many hours warning would i have? :P
[23:47] <jcoxon> as i'm not sure how much warning i can give :-p
[23:47] <jcoxon> for example you know yesterday i said today was excellent
[23:48] <jcoxon> well actualy it wasn't brilliant but the 17th was in hindsight
[23:49] <natrium42> hm, i could in theory launch from US too
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> 'reason for entry into the US?'
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> Cavity search time coming up!
[23:49] <natrium42> :D
[23:49] <natrium42> tourism!
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> You're what - ~100mi from the US?
[23:50] <natrium42> yes
[23:50] <jcoxon> canada is closer :-p
[23:50] <natrium42> Syracuse NY is 4 hours away
[23:50] <jcoxon> i'm fine with canada
[23:51] <natrium42> http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=kitchener,+on&daddr=syracuse,+ny&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=43.042798,-77.033386&sspn=7.032858,7.294922&ie=UTF8&ll=43.197167,-78.321533&spn=7.01541,7.294922&z=7
[23:51] <natrium42> i live at point A
[23:51] <natrium42> could also go to Montreal to stay in canada
[23:52] <jcoxon> launch from halifax nova scotia :p
[23:52] <natrium42> that's a possibility
[23:52] <natrium42> i could camp out there for a week
[23:52] <natrium42> do you think that's enough time range?
[23:52] Action: SpeedEvil imagines the comedic Sarnia.
[23:53] <jcoxon> perhaps...
[23:53] <natrium42> i'd have to fly there
[23:53] <jcoxon> you'll need more then just you though
[23:53] <natrium42> it's almost 2000 km
[23:53] <jcoxon> right 12.00 24th Feb will make it according to current forecasts
[23:53] <natrium42> from?
[23:54] <jcoxon> your home
[23:54] <natrium42> oh, neat :)
[23:54] <jcoxon> in 48hrs it would land mid UK
[23:54] <jcoxon> i reckon near Leeds
[23:54] <SpeedEvil> How accurate are these predictions?
[23:54] <natrium42> can we make it? :P
[23:54] <natrium42> j/k
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> I assume largely comedic value for the above prediction.
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> Or is it actually possible?
[23:55] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, ummm they are the best in the game
[23:55] <jcoxon> using hte NOAA Hysplit Model
[23:55] <jcoxon> but i'm not sure how good really they are
[23:55] <jcoxon> what i'm going to do is keep monitoring that actual date and see how it changes as we get closer
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> I'm not saying they're not - just can you actually say that you can realistically land +-100 miles after 48 hours and several thousand miles?
[23:56] <jcoxon> i reckon +-300 miles yeah
[23:56] <jcoxon> they worked last year for snox
[23:57] <jcoxon> and it really nearly made it
[23:57] <natrium42> jcoxon, so could you monitor Kitchener, Montreal and Halifax then?
[23:57] <jcoxon> yup
[23:57] <natrium42> k, great
[23:57] <jcoxon> wow
[23:57] <jcoxon> i'll upload this image
[23:57] <jcoxon> one sec
[23:59] <jcoxon> okay i've worked out how to make hysplit give me lots of paths through out the day
[23:59] <jcoxon> it allows you to see the pattern
[00:00] --- Thu Feb 19 2009