highaltitude.log.20090212

[00:00] <hallam> we'll try not to hit you with any satellites
[00:00] <Laurenceb> welcome to #highaltitude :P
[00:00] <shellevi1> Hmm. they were a polar and an equatorial, so impact'll be on hte order of 10km/s?
[00:00] <shellevi1> Indeed, welcome.
[00:01] <hallam> http://www.obsat.com/images/Ir33coll_top.gif
[00:01] <G0WXJ> I have been meaning to join in for some time, only recently remembered how to do it though :-0
[00:02] <G0WXJ> so was the collision accidental or intended?
[00:02] <hallam> accidental
[00:02] <shellevi1> Unintended.
[00:02] <G0WXJ> whoops
[00:02] <hallam> at least presumably
[00:02] <hallam> yeah
[00:02] <shellevi1> Unless you're of the aluminium-foil-hat brigade.
[00:02] <hallam> kind of surprising
[00:03] <shellevi1> Well - had to happen eventually.
[00:03] <hallam> maybe they don't have many people watching the Iridia
[00:03] <shellevi1> I suppose it'll have been 'glancing'
[00:03] <shellevi1> Solar panel on solar panel
[00:03] <G0WXJ> funnily enough, a sguest speaker came to radio club last night, he spoke about kenetic jamming of milsats
[00:03] <shellevi1> Rather than a direct impact, which'd have been more spectacular
[00:04] <hallam> at >10km/s I doubt there's much left of either of them
[00:04] <hallam> "kinetic jamming"? is that a cute phrase for smashing them to bits?
[00:04] <shellevi1> Well - if you hit a solar panel, the solar panel explodes with several times its weight in TNT, and fragments the otehr sat.
[00:04] <G0WXJ> I thought there was a LEO tracking facility that gave a heads up to this sort of thing?
[00:04] <shellevi1> If both hit, you basically vapourise the entire thing.
[00:05] <hallam> G0WXJ: yes, that's why it's surprising
[00:05] <hallam> seems they were predicted to miss by 800m or so, but usually there would have been an avoidance maneuver if it's that close
[00:05] <G0WXJ> I bet the guys on the ISS have their collective Buts puckered then?
[00:05] <shellevi1> It'll be interesting to get a distribution of teh fragment size.
[00:05] <hallam> apparently they've done a quick analysis and the ISS is fine
[00:05] <hallam> for now at least
[00:06] <hallam> they're tracking ~600 debris fragments
[00:06] <G0WXJ> oh goody...at least somebody gets overtime then
[00:06] <hallam> I bet someone at Iridium control isn't going to have a good weekend
[00:06] <shellevi1> that's what I was meaning - 600 fragments 'most along the original orbit' != direct hit - as you'd get most debris sprayed over a huge cone
[00:07] <hallam> along which original orbit?
[00:07] <G0WXJ> for those of you who have no idea who I am by the way... http://www.soar.org.uk
[00:07] <shellevi1> somewhere it said that.
[00:07] <shellevi1> I'm not sure where
[00:07] <hallam> G0WXJ: nice work
[00:08] <shellevi1> Oh - neat.
[00:08] <hallam> Are you aware of anyone having applied for a NoV for balloon operations?
[00:08] <G0WXJ> Busy re-vitalising the new site and ready to kick some OFCOM butt again
[00:08] <shellevi1> 'Most of it is not, most of it is still clustered up where the event took place. But a small number are going through station's altitude.'
[00:08] <shellevi1> http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0902/11iridium/
[00:09] <G0WXJ> a guy contacted me from a grammer school asking the same question, i don't know of anyone recently
[00:09] <shellevi1> 'which orbit' is an interesting question though.
[00:09] <hallam> "But you, I think, can imply that the majority of that should be probably along the same line as the original orbits."
[00:09] <hallam> Sutton Grammar? they've been emailing me too
[00:10] <hallam> (I'm with CU Spaceflight)
[00:10] <Laurenceb> what abooout?
[00:10] <hallam> just various ballooning stuff
[00:10] <Laurenceb> interesting
[00:10] <hallam> they want to fly a high powered transmitter though
[00:10] <Laurenceb> :-S
[00:10] <Laurenceb> its not necessary
[00:10] <hallam> eh, they'd probably get away with it, but I did point out that it wasn't technically allowed
[00:11] <G0WXJ> if its anything about 10mW OFCOM won't entertain it
[00:11] <shellevi1> hall: I think the distribution tells you stuff. Satellite A flies through sat Bs solar panel - sats Bs solar panel disintigrates leaving few fragments, and sat A breaks into chunks.
[00:11] <G0WXJ> especially on 70cm
[00:11] <hallam> G0WXJ: you know about the new 500mW unlicenced airborne band, right?
[00:11] <G0WXJ> oooo...do tell
[00:11] <Laurenceb> ? 10mW on 70cm is fine with ofcom
[00:11] <hallam> it's 868MHz or something
[00:12] <Laurenceb> yeah 868
[00:12] <G0WXJ> i thought 868 was defunct
[00:12] <Laurenceb> s/about/above?
[00:12] <hallam> it's new as of january I think
[00:12] <G0WXJ> cool...need to look into that
[00:12] <Laurenceb> yeah thats what I understood
[00:12] <G0WXJ> no more yagi's then, a nice little dish will do the trick
[00:12] <shellevi1> I remember seeing something 'telemetry' that was 1W
[00:13] <shellevi1> in the 400s
[00:13] <hallam> http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/tech/interface_req/IR2030final.pdf page 12 category xviii
[00:13] <G0WXJ> any idea on bandwidth?
[00:13] <shellevi1> I should have noted it down.
[00:13] <G0WXJ> ta
[00:13] <Laurenceb> G0WXJ: we've been using rtty
[00:13] <hallam> shellevi1: unless they specify that it's ok for airborne use, it isn't
[00:13] <Laurenceb> 300baud, 200hz shift
[00:13] <hallam> 25kHz bandwidth is allowed
[00:14] <hallam> on 868
[00:14] <G0WXJ> have you considered using psk 3.1?
[00:14] <Laurenceb> no
[00:14] <Laurenceb> not very easy to generate
[00:14] <hallam> the transmitters we've been using only allow FSK really
[00:14] <Laurenceb> yeah
[00:14] <G0WXJ> very narrow band though
[00:14] <Laurenceb> we're moving towards MFSK
[00:14] <hallam> but edmoore is working on a project to build a more capable transmitter
[00:14] <G0WXJ> and readable with literally no signal
[00:15] <Laurenceb> I'm playing about with radio as we speak :P
[00:15] <hallam> we've mostly been using the Radiometrix NTX2 which is very nice, but it's basically a VCXO
[00:15] <jcoxon> G0WXJ, hey
[00:15] <G0WXJ> J...how the devil
[00:15] <jcoxon> :-) sadly i really can't stay - have to get some sleep before an early shift tomorrow
[00:16] <jcoxon> but good to see you made it onto IRC
[00:16] <G0WXJ> sleep...whats that then?
[00:16] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:16] <jcoxon> something i lack
[00:16] <G0WXJ> i know the feeling well
[00:17] <G0WXJ> made a very interesting contact last night J, i'll email you all about it
[00:17] <jcoxon> okay cool, i'll be a lot more free from tomorrow evening onwards
[00:18] <jcoxon> finishing my rotation in A+E tomorrow then its easy stuff for 6 weeks
[00:18] <jcoxon> right night all
[00:18] <G0WXJ> he basically worked on the HAB project for QinetiQ
[00:18] <hallam> night jcoxon, try not to kill too many patients
[00:18] <G0WXJ> night mate
[00:18] <hallam> G0WXJ: Andy Elson?
[00:18] <G0WXJ> nope Tim Killiam
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[00:19] <G0WXJ> one of the big wigs I think?
[00:19] <Laurenceb> G0WXJ: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:dscn0979.jpg thats an NTX2 with avr uC on ze bottom
[00:19] <hallam> interesting, what was he doing with it?
[00:19] <Laurenceb> we've used similar hardware to that with RTTY
[00:19] <hallam> Laurenceb: that's a pretty neat board, your design?
[00:20] <G0WXJ> on secondment from USAF as I understand, something to do with payload architecture
[00:20] <Laurenceb> hallam: yes
[00:21] <Laurenceb> thats the first revision, I've got a smaller one now
[00:21] <hallam> http://i39.tinypic.com/2vbk75z.gif
[00:21] <G0WXJ> now I kow where to come to get a neat board done
[00:21] <Laurenceb> batchpcb.com
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[00:22] <G0WXJ> looking now
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[00:23] <Laurenceb> they take a while
[00:23] <Laurenceb> but its good for small orders and higher spec than olimex
[00:24] <G0WXJ> thanks for that, may be expensive shipping from across the pond though
[00:24] <shellevi1> There are a number of these services
[00:24] <Laurenceb> beats UK pcb companies
[00:25] <G0WXJ> i did manage to find a small company in Worcester who may help if he can slot boards in between production runs
[00:25] <hallam> I do think it's a bit silly to have it made in China, shipped to Colorado and then back to the UK
[00:26] <G0WXJ> one of the guys at the radio club is a bit tasty with pcb's though, so i can try them first i guess
[00:27] <G0WXJ> right all...need to get cracking, have a bunch of emails to send before i can even contemplate sleep
[00:27] <G0WXJ> cu all again soon
[00:27] <Laurenceb> cya
[00:27] <hallam> good luck, good night
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[00:29] Action: Laurenceb starts work on coding DominoEX
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[03:22] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:radio
[03:23] <Laurenceb> ^ done :P
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[04:32] <Laurenceb> wow this is amazing
[04:34] <hallam> go to bed, Laurenceb
[04:36] <Laurenceb> :P
[04:36] <Laurenceb> dominoex is awsome
[04:37] <Laurenceb> cya
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[10:52] Action: SpeedEvil has snow!
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> (10cm only)
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[15:03] <edmoore> s'up all
[15:03] <edmoore> fergusnoble: yo
[15:04] <fergusnoble> edmoore: hi
[15:04] <edmoore> josepharmbruster: greetings. Just watched episodes 1 and 2 of FOTC
[15:04] <edmoore> fergusnoble: exciting
[15:05] <fergusnoble> edmoore: yeah that is cool
[15:06] <fergusnoble> mojave would suit us fine
[15:06] <edmoore> just a bit
[15:06] <fergusnoble> edmoore: if you go to see bishop can i come?
[15:06] <fergusnoble> want to see the motor
[15:07] <edmoore> natch
[15:07] <edmoore> well, will ask iain but i obv can't see it being an issh
[15:08] <edmoore> was just talking to a guy in Gates building who has got sufficiently good at particle filtering that he can strap a 3 axis accelerometer to your foot, make you walk around the entire building, and reconstruct your path almost exactly
[15:09] <fergusnoble> surely thats impossible
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> The foot is cheating.
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> As it stops.
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> So you don't get drift.
[15:09] <edmoore> it's not impossible, if you cheat slightly
[15:10] <fergusnoble> edmoore: how do you cheat?
[15:10] <fergusnoble> by knowing how long a step is?
[15:10] <fergusnoble> or something like that
[15:10] <edmoore> in that you have a model of the building, so every time you, say, walk through a door, 90% of the particle dissappear and you snap back with a much higher confidence
[15:10] <fergusnoble> ok, thats kinda cool
[15:10] <edmoore> but it's still a nice algorithm
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> The 3-axis accel will give you a step to a fairly small fraction.
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> Once it's learned the walk.
[15:11] <fergusnoble> edmoore: when do you think you will go to see bishop?
[15:12] <edmoore> when iain gives me a time
[15:12] <fergusnoble> i was going to go to the UL so could do i could do with a ballpark
[15:12] <fergusnoble> ok shall i phone him?
[15:12] <edmoore> i doubt it'll be in the next 3 hours...
[15:12] <edmoore> yeah give him a bell
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[15:48] <Laurenceb> hello
[15:49] Action: Laurenceb has DominoEX working :P
[15:49] <edmoore> cool
[15:49] <edmoore> it's nice isn't it
[15:49] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:49] <Laurenceb> a bit tricky to get the bandwidth right
[15:50] <Laurenceb> at least with my setup- you have to adjust a trimpot
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[15:51] <Laurenceb> how did you get the band spacing right?
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[16:00] <edmoore> Laurenceb: assume linear transfer characteristic on the radiometrix
[16:01] <edmoore> seems to work, but fergusnoble could tell you better
[16:03] <edmoore> you can use the waterfall plot on fldigi to read off freqs for a particular inputvoltage
[16:07] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:08] <Laurenceb> guess I'll just carefully note the two trimpot positions where reception is lost
[16:08] <Laurenceb> then go halfway
[16:12] <Laurenceb> need some of that trimpot glue
[16:18] <Laurenceb> its just a bit slow :-/
[16:18] <Laurenceb> wish there was something twice as fast
[16:18] <Laurenceb> ~10 characters/sec
[16:20] <edmoore> which domino are you sing?
[16:20] <edmoore> using*
[16:26] <Laurenceb> 22
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> well - decrease the symbol interval
[16:28] <Laurenceb> that would mean it wasnt using a standard dominoex mode
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> yup.
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[17:43] <hallam> evening chaps
[17:43] <hallam> edmoore: are you around Churchill?
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> evening.
[17:52] <Laurenceb> hi hallam
[17:53] <hallam> hey
[17:55] <Laurenceb> I got DominoEx working
[17:55] <Laurenceb> very easy
[17:56] <Laurenceb> almost rerady to launch the mini rogallo :P
[17:58] <hallam> nicely done
[17:58] <hallam> that's on the TX side?
[17:59] <hallam> atmega code?
[17:59] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:59] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:radio
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: working as in sending and recieving data?
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: the same data?
[18:00] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:02] <hallam> how much better is it than RTTY?
[18:02] <Laurenceb> hard to say
[18:02] <Laurenceb> its about 10 characters per second
[18:02] <hallam> would be good to have a way of objectively measuring noise performance
[18:02] <Laurenceb> as opposed to about 15 you get with RTTY
[18:03] <hallam> don't you get 5 cps with 50-baud rtty and ascii?
[18:03] <Laurenceb> its got to be more resistant to noise - RTTY is vulnerable to corrupted start/stop
[18:03] <Laurenceb> 300 baud rtty gives 30 characters per sec
[18:03] <Laurenceb> but you have to add tune up pulses
[18:03] <hallam> oh
[18:04] <Laurenceb> so effectively its closer to 15
[18:04] <hallam> I think I prefer continuous transmission
[18:04] <Laurenceb> yeah
[18:04] <hallam> how did you get different levels into the radiometrix?
[18:04] <Laurenceb> RTTY resuses to work properly at all with my soundcard
[18:04] <Laurenceb> the time base is too unstable
[18:05] <Laurenceb> hallam: PWM then a 2nd order low pass filter
[18:05] <hallam> interesting
[18:05] <hallam> what PWM period? active/passive filter?
[18:06] <Laurenceb> passive filter, pwm is 46 875Hz
[18:07] <hallam> cool
[18:09] <Laurenceb> the tricky thing is getting the swing right
[18:10] <Laurenceb> theres a trimpot to adjust that, but its a pain to tune - I've still got to tune it properly
[18:10] <Laurenceb> then I need some of that trimpot glue as used in CRTs
[18:10] <hallam> can't you do that in software?
[18:10] <Laurenceb> not accurately
[18:10] <hallam> or not enough res on the pwm
[18:10] <Laurenceb> I need to keep the timing right as well
[18:11] <Laurenceb> well its a matter of setting the timer overflow register so an integer number of overflows gives the correct baud rate
[18:11] <Laurenceb> and also so its a multiple of 17
[18:13] <Laurenceb> I used 255=15*17
[18:14] <Laurenceb> then 2177 overflows almost spot on
[18:16] <Laurenceb> http://www.agi.com/products/desktopApp/stkFamily/
[18:16] <hallam> yes what about it?
[18:16] <Laurenceb> come across it?
[18:16] <hallam> yeah I have a licence
[18:17] <Laurenceb> ah neat
[18:17] <hallam> it's cool, but confusing to learn
[18:17] <Laurenceb> yeah
[18:17] <natrium42> satellite toolkit?
[18:17] <Laurenceb> yep
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[18:24] <hallam> Hi jcoxon
[18:26] <jcoxon> hey henry, how are things?
[18:28] <hallam> snowy and a bit hungry
[18:28] <Laurenceb> snow?
[18:28] <hallam> hm, I think I've only eaten jaffa cakes today
[18:28] <jcoxon> :)
[18:28] <jcoxon> i went to the pub today - last day of my rotation - a bit like an end of term
[18:28] <hallam> are you on to less gorey stuff now?
[18:28] <jcoxon> though with that analogy i only get a 3 day holiday before i start again on mon :-D
[18:29] <jcoxon> orthopedics and rhumatology
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> Oooh!
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> Handy.
[18:29] Action: SpeedEvil just fell out of the attic.
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> Fortunately seem to have come out of it unscathed.
[18:29] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, you'll have to wait a bit - will need to learn it first!
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> Well - slightly sore knee.
[18:30] <jcoxon> hallam, ready for a Peg VI launch soon?
[18:30] Action: Laurenceb is
[18:30] <hallam> absolutely
[18:30] <jcoxon> have fixed the problems from last time
[18:30] <hallam> from chu or ears?
[18:30] <jcoxon> oh i'm not sure - either, not really at that point yet
[18:30] <jcoxon> need to rebuild the case
[18:30] <hallam> what were the problems really? just a bit crappy RTTY?
[18:31] <jcoxon> yeah, mistake in the spacing
[18:31] <Laurenceb> dominoex :P
[18:31] <jcoxon> and also haveing the radio tune up and down inbetween rtty and sstv
[18:32] <jcoxon> also going for a slim jim antenna
[18:32] <Laurenceb> neat
[18:32] <jcoxon> as rjharrison sent me some linear feed stuff
[18:32] <jcoxon> stripped down the powershot + shifted it to 3 AAs rather then 4
[18:32] <Laurenceb> the powershot?
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: can you do domino and rtty on the same payload?
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> For comparison purps?
[18:32] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:33] <Laurenceb> but I'd rather not
[18:33] <Laurenceb> actually no, as dominoex uses tracking loops at the receiver
[18:33] <jcoxon> hallam, will start looking for a weekend i'm free and will send round an email
[18:33] <Laurenceb> they'd get thrown off by the rtty
[18:35] <hallam> jcoxon: sounds good
[18:37] <hallam> think it's food time for me
[18:37] Nick change: hallam -> hallam|food
[18:37] <Laurenceb> right I'm off, cya all
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[18:39] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, did DX ship your order?
[18:39] <natrium42> they are not replying to my email
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> LAst I checked - earlier today - they had all but one item and were awaiting hte last
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> (GSM quad-band bug)
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[18:48] <edmoore> jcoxon: yo
[18:49] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[18:49] <edmoore> have you had a play with gumstix overo?
[18:50] <jcoxon> sadly not, though i'd quite like one
[18:50] <edmoore> I'm looking at getting either one of them, or a beagle board
[18:50] <jcoxon> especially like hte hdmi bit
[18:50] <edmoore> not sure what I'd use it for!
[18:50] <jcoxon> not sure i can persuade them to send me a free one :-p
[18:50] <jcoxon> i saw a screenshot of a full X11 environment doing 3d graphics running on one recently
[18:51] <jcoxon> and its smaller then hte original gumstixs
[18:51] <jcoxon> pretty damn cool
[18:51] <edmoore> yeah. it's about 3 times more powerful than dad's first ever laptop that I used to surf the net on
[18:52] <jcoxon> well from what i've seen and heard they are nice bits of kit
[18:52] <jcoxon> sadly broke after my ft817 and not really sure what i'd use them for
[18:54] <edmoore> yeah
[18:54] <edmoore> bet you don't regret that particular purchase though
[18:54] <edmoore> :)
[18:54] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:55] <jcoxon> might try and make a qso this weekend
[18:55] <jcoxon> got some linear feed from rob to make a slim jim
[18:55] <jcoxon> as my 2mGP was rubbish
[18:55] <edmoore> that reminds me of some stuff I need to do
[18:55] <jcoxon> glad to be of some help
[18:56] <edmoore> :)
[18:56] <jcoxon> edmoore, i've nearly finished refitting Peg VI
[18:56] <edmoore> yeah?
[18:57] <jcoxon> so will launch eventually :-)
[18:58] <edmoore> awesome
[18:58] <edmoore> sstv?
[18:58] <jcoxon> yup, working nicely
[18:58] <edmoore> grnd
[18:58] <edmoore> grand*
[18:59] <jcoxon> stripped the camera for weight and gave it an external pwr supply as it only needs 3AAs instead of the internal 4
[19:00] <edmoore> ok that's neat
[19:00] <jcoxon> and going to make a slim jim antenna
[19:00] <edmoore> for tx?
[19:01] <jcoxon> yeah off the balloon
[19:01] <jcoxon> instead of a 1/4 GP
[19:01] <edmoore> cool
[19:02] <edmoore> doesn't need a ground plane, I see
[19:02] <jcoxon> yeah a slim jim is really a 1/2 wave end fed dipole apparently
[19:02] <edmoore> yeah
[19:03] <edmoore> you could imbed the whole thing in some of that grey pipe insulation
[19:03] <edmoore> that'd keep it stiff but flexible
[19:03] <edmoore> a giant drinking straw :)
[19:04] <jcoxon> perhaps have it hanging down with a small weight at the bottom using ladder feed
[19:04] <jcoxon> ladder line*
[19:04] <edmoore> sure, though that would make it a pendulum
[19:04] <edmoore> and this it would oscillate
[19:04] <jcoxon> good point
[19:05] <edmoore> but I like the look of it very much
[19:05] <jcoxon> rob has made one already
[19:05] <edmoore> so many antennas so little time
[19:05] <edmoore> yeah I saw
[19:05] <edmoore> this looks nice, though you'v probs spotted it a;lrady http://www.m0ukd.com/Slim_Jim/index.php
[19:05] <jcoxon> i have it already up
[19:06] <jcoxon> :-p
[19:06] <edmoore> and very much like how easy matching it up is
[19:06] <edmoore> cool indeed
[19:06] <edmoore> right, I'm going to go and grab me some out time
[19:06] <edmoore> bbl
[19:08] <edmoore> might have to try sstv on hobble :)
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[19:10] <Laurenceb> wazzzzuuuuuuppppp#
[19:11] Action: SpeedEvil points up.
[19:12] <fergusnoble> hi Laurenceb
[19:12] Action: SpeedEvil is 60% through clearing his room for insulating.
[19:13] <Laurenceb> whats theplan?
[19:13] <Laurenceb> fibreglass?
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> Take up floorboards.
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> fiberglass under, and round walls
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> replace floorboards.
[19:15] <Laurenceb> fibreglass is rather poor :-/
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Not if it's thick enough
[19:15] <Laurenceb> cant you get solid board?
[19:15] <Laurenceb> hehe
[19:15] <Laurenceb> you want some room left at the end
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Well - the stuff I have is .032W/m/K
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> normal is .04W/m/K
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> so it's a bit better
[19:15] <Laurenceb> ok
[19:16] <Laurenceb> yeah its not too bad
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> Kingspan is .02W/m/K
[19:16] <Laurenceb> yeah, kingspan and british gypum are best
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> But I've done the cost-benefit thing, and the fibreglass is OK.
[19:16] <Laurenceb> cool
[19:17] <Laurenceb> did you look at moisture levels and duepoints?
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[19:17] <Laurenceb> ok cool
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> Vapour barriers and the rest.
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> airspace behind, ...
[19:18] <Laurenceb> yeah on the front wall of our house we had to build an independant stud wall
[19:18] <Laurenceb> then have avapour barrier
[19:18] <Laurenceb> and 25mm airspace
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> I'm skimping on the gap - only 2cm - but also instrumenting it, and
[19:18] <Laurenceb> hehe
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> have a plenum for blowing in air if needed.
[19:18] <Laurenceb> lol
[19:19] <Laurenceb> we only have 30mm of brick onto the front
[19:19] <Laurenceb> at the back we rebuilt with breeze blocks so it could be dabbed with gyproc board
[19:20] <Laurenceb> - we took off the inner skin of bricks then rebuilt with blocks leaving a cavity
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> Did yuou come across kingspan + plasterboard under 50mm thick?
[19:21] <Laurenceb> yeah but it wouldnt give high enough U value
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> I was looking for, and failed to find.
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> I want it for round my windows only.
[19:21] <Laurenceb> cellotex?
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> To avoid cutting back into the brick, I need ~30mm
[19:21] <Laurenceb> cooltherm?
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> insulation + plasterboard
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> Can only find polystyrene, not PIR/PUR
[19:22] <Laurenceb> you can get stuff like that quite eaity I thought
[19:22] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> (0.03, not 0.02)
[19:22] <Laurenceb> if you put in a big order direct with one of the main companies they'll send a lorry round
[19:22] <Laurenceb> - free
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> I mean - I haven't seen anyone doing that thickness not in polystyrene
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> I only need ~25m^2 or so - for round the windows.
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> So not really a big order alas.
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> Also, scotland.
[19:24] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:24] <Laurenceb> we had some that thickness
[19:25] <Laurenceb> but round the windows we just used polyisocyanurate spray foam, as building regs didnt care about thermal bridges, only fire protection
[19:25] <Laurenceb> but if I understand correctly thats changed now
[19:26] <Laurenceb> that foam is nasty, you dont want to get it on your skin
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> My walls are ~120m^2 - the window side surface area is 30m^2, the windows themselves are only about 20m^2 :)
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> So you can see that the insulation there is moderately important.
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> And floor is ~100m^2 - and currently uninsulated - so that's important too.
[19:28] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, good two GPS chip samples
[19:28] <Laurenceb> eh?
[19:28] <natrium42> overnight from taiwan to canada :)
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> natrium42: :)
[19:29] <Laurenceb> oh those
[19:29] <Laurenceb> cool
[19:29] <natrium42> but my PCB isn't even done yet :S
[19:30] <Laurenceb> its just QFN ?
[19:31] <natrium42> LGA
[19:32] Action: SpeedEvil passes natrium42 a book entitled 'Dead bug for dummies'.
[19:33] <natrium42> lol
[19:33] <natrium42> Laurenceb, so did you want any PCBs made?
[19:34] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, what about you?
[19:34] <Laurenceb> didnt I email you?
[19:34] <natrium42> i am ordering soon
[19:34] <natrium42> oh?
[19:34] <Laurenceb> erm I think so
[19:34] <natrium42> to my gmail?
[19:34] <Laurenceb> yes
[19:35] <natrium42> hmm, i don't see anything
[19:35] <Laurenceb> ok
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> natrium42: I think I can manage the PCB fine, thanks.
[19:35] <Laurenceb> I'll resend...
[19:35] <natrium42> kk
[19:35] <Laurenceb> kkk
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> I think I'll stick with 5 chips.
[19:36] <Laurenceb> 88 .. ect
[19:36] <natrium42> ok
[19:39] <Laurenceb> whats your address?
[19:40] <natrium42> natrium at gmail . sovietrussia
[19:40] <Laurenceb> lol
[19:40] <natrium42> got it
[19:41] <Laurenceb> cool, how any trimpots on the baord?
[19:41] <Laurenceb> not sure if I sent the right version
[19:41] <natrium42> action verb is missing
[19:41] <Laurenceb> eh?
[19:42] <Laurenceb> how many trimpots are there on the board ? :P
[19:42] <natrium42> it's your board :P
[19:44] <natrium42> bbl
[19:45] <Laurenceb> ok radiov2.brd is what you want
[19:45] <Laurenceb> it should be in that zip
[19:46] <natrium42> yep
[19:46] <natrium42> gotta do some soldering
[19:46] <natrium42> afk
[19:46] <Laurenceb> cool
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[20:10] <edmoore> hallam: I missed your ping earlier
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[20:12] Nick change: Bluenarf -> EI5GTB
[20:15] <hallam> edmoore: no worries, I was hiding in the bar from the snow for an hour or so
[20:15] <edmoore> ah right
[20:15] <edmoore> surrounded by chaos?
[20:15] <EI5GTB> any of you guys ever made a cdi for a quadbike or motorbike?
[20:15] <edmoore> they're all remarkably calm
[20:18] <Laurenceb> its snowing in cambridge?
[20:18] <edmoore> yep
[20:18] <edmoore> got a few inches down now
[20:18] <Laurenceb> wow I thought it had finished
[20:19] <Laurenceb> still drifts here from last week
[20:19] <edmoore> yeah, we had a few hangers on
[20:19] <edmoore> the fens are flooded to hell
[20:21] <Laurenceb> well I'm off out, bbl
[20:21] <hallam> EI5GTB, cdi = course deviation indicator?
[20:49] <EI5GTB> naw, capaccitive discharge ignition
[20:49] <EI5GTB> the ignition syste
[20:53] <hallam> oh
[20:54] <hallam> what do they usually use, an ig coil similar to a car?
[20:54] <hallam> or magnetos
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> it depends
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> they discharge a capacitor through a transformer.
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> At one time in the dim and distant past, this was more-or-less a conventional 'ignition coil'.
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> But
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> (charged to ~300V)
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> But nowadays, the transformer may be very small, and even integrated onto the plug, as a 'coil pack'
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> which takes +12, 0V, and fire, and generates all the HV internally
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUZUKI-SV-2002-REG-COIL-PACK_W0QQitemZ350163096936QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item350163096936&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1689|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> like that
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[21:26] <EI5GTB> yea, im blew, and im going to make one
[21:26] <EI5GTB> http://paulsnet.org/CDI/
[21:28] <EI5GTB> the top trace is the pickup coilk
[21:28] <EI5GTB> and the bottom is the stator - prived some juice to the cdi
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[21:58] <Laurenceb> back
[21:58] Action: Laurenceb thought CDI=commonrail deisel injection
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[23:11] <fergusnoble> hallam: hi
[23:11] <hallam> Hi fergusnoble
[23:11] <fergusnoble> hows things?
[23:11] <hallam> not bad, still got a lot of cake
[23:11] <hallam> you?
[23:12] <fergusnoble> not bad
[23:12] <fergusnoble> good the bens have made some progress
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[00:00] --- Fri Feb 13 2009