highaltitude.log.20090208

[00:03] <natrium42> look like it's frozen ;)
[00:04] <natrium42> *looks
[00:05] <shellevil> Someone needs to go up and press reset.
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[00:07] <natrium42> looks like edmoore left for it
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[00:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.i-shovel.com/
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[00:15] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[00:15] <Laurenceb> bye
[00:15] <shellevil> That was quick!
[00:39] <natrium42> haha @ i-shovel
[00:39] <natrium42> it won't work in canada XD
[00:41] <shellevil> If it runs _very_ often, it might.
[00:41] <shellevil> But I question reliability in that case
[00:42] <natrium42> it's an interesting concept
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[00:42] <natrium42> shellevil, with mountains on snow on either way of the driveway?
[00:42] <shellevil> In principle, a 'swap' charger may let it run most of the time
[00:42] <natrium42> it basically goes straight up
[00:43] <shellevil> It would need to cope with that, yes.
[00:43] <shellevil> And it'd need somewhere to dump the snow, and some means of climbing that hill
[00:44] <shellevil> A snow-lego block maker, and a preset design.
[00:44] <shellevil> Job done.
[00:45] <natrium42> some install heated driveways
[00:45] <natrium42> a wasteful concept...
[00:45] <shellevil> depends where the heat comes from, but usually
[00:47] <shellevil> For slightly more serious snow, I could see attaching a little conveyor to the back of the bucket
[00:47] <natrium42> yeah, that might do
[00:47] <shellevil> Again, and more or less constant running in bad snow
[00:49] <shellevil> I'd wonder if a dragline based system might not work better though - for straight drives anyway
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[03:13] <shellevil> http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1234061371533.jpg
[03:39] <natrium42> shellevil, you visit /b/ ? :P
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[09:02] <gordonjcp> morning
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[09:41] <SpeedEvil> Occasionally. That was a completely worksafe link.
[09:41] <SpeedEvil> Well - 99%.
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> It can be very innovative and brilliant - or just repetitive, and free of thought.
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> ->natrium42
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[09:59] <jcoxon> morning all
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[10:34] <jcoxon> morning RocketBoy
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[10:40] <RocketBoy> morning all
[10:41] <jcoxon> hey
[10:41] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: sorted that HF antenna out yet?
[10:42] <jcoxon> nope
[10:42] <jcoxon> still haven't worked out how
[10:43] <RocketBoy> I have been looking at ATUs
[10:43] <jcoxon> there is an attic above me but i can't really get into it and if could i have no idea how i'd feed a line up there
[10:43] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, okay
[10:43] <RocketBoy> you load up anything as an antenna with a good ATU
[10:44] <jcoxon> could i sling a wire over the roof of my building
[10:44] <jcoxon> up one side and down the other
[10:44] <jcoxon> ?
[10:44] <RocketBoy> yeah that would prpobably do
[10:45] <RocketBoy> I have done somthing similar with a rubber ball on the end and some thin copper wire
[10:46] <jcoxon> this may be a stupid question but does an ATU help receive as well as transmit?
[10:47] <RocketBoy> oh yeah - antenna recipricosity and all that
[10:47] <shellevil> To a limited degree
[10:47] <RocketBoy> whatever is good for TX is good for RX
[10:47] <jcoxon> okay
[10:48] <RocketBoy> an ATU is about matching impedances so more of the power gets delivered
[10:48] <shellevil> A very mismatched antenna may recieve fine - especially if the noise floor of the reciever is lower than the ambeint noise
[10:48] <jcoxon> next question - suggetions of type of wire to through over the roof :-)
[10:48] <shellevil> It may also mistune the antenna
[10:48] <jcoxon> throw*
[10:48] <RocketBoy> thin enammed copper wire - say 24 SWG
[10:49] <shellevil> for what freq?
[10:49] <RocketBoy> or anything - thin insulated bell wire
[10:49] <shellevil> ideally over a skin depth
[10:49] <RocketBoy> well - say 10m or more is good
[10:50] <jcoxon> i'll need to make it look stealthy
[10:50] <jcoxon> am bit of spray paint camouflage
[10:50] <RocketBoy> then the ATU should allow you to convert whatever impedance that antenna has on the particular freq you want to use it into 50ohn for the rig
[10:50] <shellevil> tinned wire looks grotty fast.
[10:51] <shellevil> outside
[10:51] <rjharrison> Come on then thels get onto 40m and have some qso's
[10:51] <jcoxon> ATU suggestions?
[10:51] <rjharrison> thets = lets
[10:51] <RocketBoy> well you need to make one (or by an MFJ-xxx)
[10:52] <RocketBoy> a coulple of 500pF variable capacitors and a tapped coil
[10:52] <RocketBoy> there are loads of designs on the net - I'll take a deco
[10:53] <shellevil> Or add a 40R resistor or so to the wire, and see what happens when you try to call out.
[10:54] <RocketBoy> http://www.qsl.net/vk3jeg/atu.html - see the T cct toward the bottom of the page
[10:56] <RocketBoy> that uses a roller inductor (difficult to get these days) - but a tapped coil on a torroid core would be reasonably good
[10:59] <jcoxon> hmmm i might get a commercial one - my circuit building is rubbish :-p
[11:00] <gordonjcp> rjharrison: I'll be on 40 later when I put my aerial up
[11:04] <RocketBoy> I'm still waiting for my FT817 :-(
[11:04] <RocketBoy> but I'll listen
[11:07] <jcoxon> do ATUs require power supplies?
[11:11] <RocketBoy> depends - automatic ones do
[11:11] <jcoxon> okay
[11:12] <jcoxon> right well i'll look into something - it'll be a while till i sort something out
[11:12] <RocketBoy> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Radio-Toroid-P-No-T157-2-Manuacturer-Micrometals_W0QQitemZ390027230659QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item390027230659&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1690%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
[11:12] <RocketBoy> one of those with 50 turns
[11:13] <RocketBoy> (tapped with a rotary switch)
[11:13] <RocketBoy> and two of these
[11:13] <RocketBoy> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/225pF-VARIABLE-2x-TUNING-CAPACITOR-1-4-INCH-SHAFT-1_W0QQitemZ350124723862QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM?hash=item350124723862&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
[11:14] <RocketBoy> should do it
[11:15] <jcoxon> how would you tap the turns with the rotary switch?
[11:15] <jcoxon> as in the switch would increase or decrease the number of turns involved?
[11:18] <RocketBoy> yes thats it every few turns on the coil - make a tap point - that taps goes to the switch - need a 1 pole 6 or 12 way or similar
[11:19] <RocketBoy> rapid part no 79-0200
[11:19] <jcoxon> and the switch connects it to ground
[11:19] <RocketBoy> or 79-0100
[11:20] <RocketBoy> yes in most ccts - it just shorts out the remaining turns
[11:21] <jcoxon> so parts wise:
[11:21] <RocketBoy> as in http://www.qsl.net/vk3jeg/atu.html - its just moving the short up and down the inductor
[11:22] <jcoxon> 1 toroid ring + 50 turns of wire
[11:22] <jcoxon> 1 pole 6 rotary switch
[11:22] <RocketBoy> (or 12 way)
[11:22] <jcoxon> 2 of those variable caps
[11:22] <jcoxon> a VSWR meter?
[11:23] <jcoxon> and then by varying the caps and the number of turns you could match up to the antenna
[11:23] <RocketBoy> yes
[11:23] <RocketBoy> need a SWR meter
[11:24] <jcoxon> hmmm, this looks relatively easy :-p
[11:24] <RocketBoy> then you tune for minimum SWR
[11:25] <RocketBoy> yeah its one of the simpler things you can make yourself
[11:25] <RocketBoy> A plastic box is good too
[11:25] <RocketBoy> :-)
[11:25] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:25] <jcoxon> and to connect everything - RG58?
[11:25] <RocketBoy> doesn't have to be screened
[11:25] <RocketBoy> yep RG58
[11:26] <RocketBoy> or RG67
[11:26] <RocketBoy> or H100
[11:26] <RocketBoy> or almost any thickish 50ohm co-ax
[11:26] <jcoxon> final q - it should therefore go in order:
[11:26] <jcoxon> radio - swr meter - atu - wire
[11:27] <RocketBoy> Ideally it would be radio - co-ax - SWR - ATU - antenna
[11:28] <jcoxon> okay, i'll go for it
[11:28] <RocketBoy> the atu needs to be next to the antenna - the idea is to carry the rf in a 50 ohm environment until the ATU
[11:28] <RocketBoy> I'll be building one too - so I'll let U know How I get on
[11:30] <RocketBoy> its only going to be good for about 25W - so no running 400W into it ;-)
[11:31] <RocketBoy> I'l get the 12W switch If I were you - the more tap positions the better
[11:31] <jcoxon> i'm only allowed 5W :-p
[11:32] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, if you could take some pics of the build that would be great
[11:32] <jcoxon> i'll hold off a bit as i'm in no hurry to build it
[11:32] <jcoxon> oops i mean i'm allowed 10Ws
[11:32] <jcoxon> but the 817 only does 5
[11:35] <RocketBoy> yeah - I'll put a diagram and some pics up
[11:36] <RocketBoy> is there a SWR in the 817?
[11:36] <edmoore> mornin all
[11:38] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, there is but i think a needle one might be a better option
[11:38] <jcoxon> its not very 'accurate' - just 0-5 bars
[11:38] <jcoxon> and it gets angry if you have a high swr and flashes red!
[11:38] <RocketBoy> Ah OK yes not ideal
[11:39] <jcoxon> i guess its for mobile use
[11:39] <jcoxon> just a quick check to see things are okay
[11:39] <RocketBoy> I'd try the wire streight in (on low power) and see where you get
[11:40] <jcoxon> really? cause i could be tempted to get some wire today...
[11:40] <RocketBoy> yeah (I would) -
[11:41] <RocketBoy> bbl - cats been sick
[11:41] <edmoore> nice
[12:02] <RocketBoy> animals and children - thank goodness for vax
[12:02] <jcoxon> haha
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[12:06] <jcoxon> bbl
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[12:43] <jatkins> hi all
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[13:38] <edmoore> fergusnoble: ping
[13:38] <fergusnoble> hello
[13:40] <edmoore> hallam mentioned Bad Things (tm) about those sparkfun 2 pin power connectors. option: a) use it. b) replace it with something else - I would suggest another spring terminal block as it just reduces the overall number of different types of connector on the board
[13:40] <fergusnoble> i dont think there is a massive drive to reduce number of connector types
[13:41] <fergusnoble> but it could be useful to just have a spring terminal
[13:41] <edmoore> there never is. there is only common sense - fewer = better
[13:41] <fergusnoble> versitile
[13:41] <fergusnoble> but there is the problem of dodgy connections which you really dont want for the power
[13:41] <edmoore> agreed - if a battery pack turns out to be a dud we can get new batts in on the field without needing to re-crimp connectors
[13:42] <edmoore> well I'm of the opinion that spring terminals are less dodgy than other kinds of conenctor
[13:42] <fergusnoble> and somehow i dont find those connectors very neat, but thats not really important
[13:42] <edmoore> they have a positive sprung lock, and they are used in a lot of high reliability industrial cabinet systems for that reason. as long as you don't grab the insulation accidently, they're good
[13:43] <fergusnoble> ok, cool
[13:43] <fergusnoble> well, maybe put pads for .1" connector or for just soldering a battery pack directly to the board
[13:43] <edmoore> these spring terms are 0.1
[13:44] <fergusnoble> i still think it would be nice to have an integrated solution with a built in battery pack
[13:44] <fergusnoble> ok, sweet
[13:44] <edmoore> so if we don't like them we've a world of options for replacement
[13:44] <fergusnoble> yup, awesome
[13:44] <edmoore> seen the new sparkfun gps?
[13:44] <fergusnoble> no
[13:45] <edmoore> take a look
[13:45] <edmoore> $40, 10hz
[13:45] <edmoore> single chip with built in LNA
[13:45] <edmoore> del
[13:47] <jcoxon> edmoore, you know natrium42 has ordered a load
[13:47] <jcoxon> his cost $8 i think
[13:47] <edmoore> yeah
[13:47] <edmoore> amazing
[13:47] <rjharrison> jcoxon: boo
[13:47] <jcoxon> bulk bying and all
[13:47] <edmoore> but that was for like qty 100
[13:47] <jcoxon> hes got that many
[13:47] <jcoxon> :-p
[13:47] <jcoxon> hello rjharrison
[13:48] <edmoore> yeah that's what I mean
[13:48] <jcoxon> i guess you guys have you new henry gps
[13:48] <edmoore> it'll work when it works
[13:48] <edmoore> until then
[13:48] <edmoore> <insert platitude>
[13:48] <jcoxon> hehe
[13:49] <jcoxon> natrium42 said he was happy to ship a few if people wanted them i think
[13:50] <edmoore> it might be cool. Can't think of a decent engineering reason for 10hz for us at the moment though, and would want to compare the quality of the lock to the u-blox too. but all that siad, they look yum
[13:50] <jcoxon> :-)
[13:50] <jcoxon> they are shiny and new
[13:50] <jcoxon> tis a good quality
[13:52] <jcoxon> http://www.soar.org.uk/
[13:53] <jcoxon> edmoore, tis an interesting link
[13:53] <jcoxon> got an email recently from G0WXJ who is in charge of that
[13:53] <jcoxon> he popped onto the channel from the looks of the logs but i missed him
[13:54] <jcoxon> spoke to him originally back in the early days
[13:55] <edmoore> yeah I spotted that
[13:55] <edmoore> we might be able to help on the balloon side
[13:56] <jcoxon> but its good to see that they are looking to change the licence rules
[13:56] <jcoxon> also the stuff about NOV
[13:58] <fergusnoble> edmoore: new 2 axis gyro
[13:58] <edmoore> yep that too
[13:59] <edmoore> hrm, those sparkfun spring loaded terminals are top-loading. might need a re-think
[14:03] <fergusnoble> what about the ones we used before?
[14:03] <fergusnoble> also remember there do exist components that arent on sparkfun
[14:04] <edmoore> they were from rapid weren't they?
[14:04] <edmoore> thanks you fergusnoble :p
[14:04] <fergusnoble> yeah i think they were rapid
[14:05] <edmoore> the sparkfun ones had the advantage of being 0.1" pitch, but pitch is not too serious a concern
[14:05] <fergusnoble> although i think they may have been more than .1" pitch
[14:05] <fergusnoble> hows it going with badger2 then?
[14:05] <edmoore> well, I am doing it atm. just want to finalise all these connectors so i can start getting tracks down
[14:06] <edmoore> have adjusted the layout to be a bit longer and thinner (120mm x 55mm) which allows all the payload connectors to fit down one side
[14:07] <edmoore> and all the other stuff (jtag, reset button, sd etc) to fit down the other
[14:07] <edmoore> it also makes fan-out from the arm pretty easy (he says).
[14:07] <fergusnoble> down the long sides?
[14:07] <edmoore> yeah
[14:07] <fergusnoble> ok
[14:08] <edmoore> we wanted a 90 degree jtag didn't we?
[14:09] <fergusnoble> yeah, could be good
[14:09] <fergusnoble> doesnt matter that much though
[14:09] <fergusnoble> main thing is that its in a nice colour
[14:09] <edmoore> good point :)
[14:13] <fergusnoble> can we skype?
[14:13] <edmoore> loading up skype
[14:13] <edmoore> page.... file..... swap.... hdd.... grind....
[14:14] <edmoore> wish i didn't have to have windows running to do this!
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[14:54] <fergusnoble> edmoore: it was iain, we're going down to do a layup
[14:54] <fergusnoble> you could join us iuw
[14:54] <edmoore> cool
[14:54] <edmoore> may well take y'up on that
[14:54] <edmoore> yep
[14:54] <fergusnoble> ok, you could always bring your lappy
[14:54] <edmoore> indeed, though pointing my eyes at something else would be nice!
[14:54] <fergusnoble> heh, yeah
[14:55] <fergusnoble> ok, we're heading down now
[14:55] <edmoore> cool, I will join you
[14:55] <fergusnoble> ok, see you in a bit
[14:59] <rjharrison> A very lightweight 26g 169MHz Slim Jim antenna for HAB
[14:59] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/images/comp/IMG_0401.JPG
[15:01] <gordonjcp> rjharrison: nice
[15:02] <rjharrison> thanks
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[16:23] <jcoxon> hey guys, i'm sorting out the sstv on Peg VI right npw
[16:23] <jcoxon> now*
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[16:23] <jcoxon> any suggestions for the colour of the overlay coordinates on the image?
[16:24] <jcoxon> red?
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> cyan?
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> I mean magenta
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> Some fields can get quite reddish.
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[16:36] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, magenta it is
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> what's the res again?
[16:40] <jcoxon> 320x240
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[19:41] <Xenion> Guten Abend / Good Evening folks :-)
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[20:45] <jatkins> hi everyone
[20:57] <Xenion> Gute Nacht alle miteinander / Good Night folks :-)
[20:58] <jatkins> :)
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[21:00] <jatkins> ping jcoxon
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[21:09] <rjharrison> boo
[21:09] <rjharrison> Back from the cinima
[21:09] <jatkins> hi rjharrison
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[21:43] <Laurenceb> hello
[21:44] <rjharrison> hi all
[21:44] <rjharrison> Sorry a bit slow
[21:44] <rjharrison> I have been playing with slim jims today
[21:44] <Laurenceb> not sure what that is... if I want to know
[21:45] <rjharrison> An antenna
[21:45] <Laurenceb> ok... thats good
[21:45] <Laurenceb> it just sounds bad...
[21:45] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/images/comp/IMG_0401.JPG
[21:45] <rjharrison> It's fro rx on icarus
[21:45] <Laurenceb> like "theres a party in my pants, slim jims is invited"
[21:46] <rjharrison> hehe
[21:46] <rjharrison> No it's not that
[21:46] <Laurenceb> its a bit different, 434MHz ?
[21:46] <rjharrison> 169
[21:47] <rjharrison> almost 2m
[21:47] <Laurenceb> very compact
[21:47] <Laurenceb> is that unidirectional?
[21:47] <rjharrison> yep
[21:48] <rjharrison> 177
[21:48] <rjharrison> 1.77 meters
[21:48] <rjharrison> it just trails out below the payload
[21:48] <rjharrison> very safe if it land on your head
[21:49] <rjharrison> This is the web site I used to make it
[21:49] <rjharrison> http://www.m0ukd.com/Slim_Jim/index.php
[21:51] <Laurenceb> nice
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[22:01] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:01] <jatkins> hey
[22:01] <rjharrison> Hi james
[22:01] <rjharrison> How's it going
[22:01] <jcoxon> good thanks
[22:01] <jcoxon> jsut watched the baftas
[22:01] <jcoxon> on tv that is - haven't got an invite yet
[22:02] <rjharrison> hehe
[22:02] <jatkins> lol
[22:02] <rjharrison> Wife is watching
[22:02] <jcoxon> would love to be involved with all that
[22:03] <jcoxon> wrong career i guess
[22:03] <jatkins> it would be pretty cool
[22:04] <jatkins> jcoxon: has the ears launch licence expired?
[22:04] <jcoxon> nope
[22:05] <jatkins> cool
[22:05] <jatkins> my payload's nearly ready to launch
[22:05] <jatkins> i've got the gps, serial logging, and camera working
[22:05] <jcoxon> oh excellent
[22:05] <jcoxon> using an arduino?
[22:05] <jatkins> i've written an nmea parser w/ google maps for ground control
[22:05] <jatkins> yeah
[22:05] <jatkins> pro mini (sparkfun)
[22:05] <jcoxon> excellent, got the radio working yet?
[22:05] <jatkins> i've basically just got radio, sms, and cutdown tod o
[22:05] <jatkins> nope
[22:05] <jatkins> but i plan on using an ntx2
[22:05] <jcoxon> i've got some arduino code to do rtty
[22:06] <jatkins> as in radiometrix
[22:06] <jcoxon> (adapted from rjharrison
[22:06] <jcoxon> )
[22:06] <jatkins> cool
[22:06] <jcoxon> how you planning to do sms
[22:06] <rjharrison> heh
[22:06] <rjharrison> he
[22:06] <jcoxon> ?
[22:06] <jatkins> i was reading up on rtty on wikipedia..for some reason i'd thought it was an analogue protocl
[22:06] <jatkins> at commands i think
[22:06] <jcoxon> module?
[22:06] <jatkins> as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayes_command_set
[22:07] <jatkins> i can do it with a normal phone, no?
[22:07] <rjharrison> It's very simple to use
[22:07] <jatkins> i.e. ttl serial
[22:07] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:07] <jatkins> cool
[22:07] <jcoxon> softserial?
[22:07] <jatkins> arduino library?
[22:07] <jcoxon> as you only have 1 serial port
[22:07] <jatkins> yeah
[22:07] <jcoxon> well 1 hardware serial port
[22:07] <jatkins> yeah
[22:07] <jatkins> would need to use that then
[22:07] <Laurenceb> you can bit bang serial
[22:07] <jatkins> it's a pretty simple library
[22:07] <jatkins> lol
[22:08] <Laurenceb> AT commands will work on most phones with an interface
[22:08] <jcoxon> yeah but its not that fast
[22:08] <jatkins> ok
[22:08] <Laurenceb> I've used sony ericcsson a lot
[22:08] <jatkins> i found this: http://www.developershome.com/sms/atCommandsIntro.asp
[22:08] <jcoxon> i'm a nokia fan personally
[22:08] <jcoxon> yeah AT commands are great, nice and easy
[22:08] <jatkins> yeah, i was planning on using nokia
[22:08] <jatkins> do you need a special connector or just solder to the phone's pins?
[22:08] <Laurenceb> it was a bit harder to find interfaces on nokia
[22:08] <jatkins> oh
[22:09] <jatkins> ol
[22:09] <jatkins> ok*
[22:09] <Laurenceb> but maybe thats changed now
[22:09] <jcoxon> actually i think there might actually be a arduino lib
[22:09] <Laurenceb> look on ebay
[22:09] <jatkins> yeah
[22:09] <jcoxon> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/01/sserial2mobile_sms_library_for_ardu.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890
[22:09] <jatkins> oh cool
[22:09] <jatkins> thx
[22:09] <Laurenceb> yeah they tend to use a proprietory nokia interface
[22:09] <jatkins> oh
[22:09] <Laurenceb> if you want to connect I'd get a datacable
[22:09] <jatkins> rather than at commands?
[22:09] <Laurenceb> not sure if thats changed now
[22:10] <jatkins> ok
[22:10] <Laurenceb> this was a year or so ago
[22:10] <Laurenceb> and phones move quite fast
[22:10] <jatkins> ok
[22:10] <jatkins> yeah
[22:10] <Laurenceb> the cheap ones on ebay now my accept AT
[22:10] <Laurenceb> *may
[22:10] <jatkins> cool
[22:10] <jatkins> i've got a old nokia - not sure what model
[22:10] <jatkins> jcoxon: that make library looks perfect
[22:11] <jcoxon> yeah that'll make life nice and easy
[22:11] <Laurenceb> hehe makezine
[22:11] <Laurenceb> theres some weird stuff on there
[22:11] <jatkins> yup
[22:11] <jcoxon> that phone looks pretty good as well
[22:11] <jcoxon> perhaps go for that
[22:11] <jatkins> they made a HAB once
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[22:11] <jatkins> think they lost it
[22:11] <rharrison_> opps
[22:12] <Laurenceb> hehe yeah I remember that
[22:12] <jcoxon> they did
[22:12] <jatkins> i'll try the library in a minute
[22:12] <rharrison_> jatkins: where are you based?
[22:12] <jatkins> they put up a pbwiki about it
[22:12] <jcoxon> we did some landing predictions for them
[22:12] <jatkins> rharrison: hants
[22:12] <jcoxon> but still they didn't find it
[22:12] <jatkins> yeah
[22:12] <jatkins> rharrison: near petersfield
[22:12] <rharrison_> Cool, where do you plan to launch from?
[22:12] <jatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitehill,_Hampshire
[22:12] <jatkins> i might go up to cambridge
[22:13] <rharrison_> Cood idea
[22:13] <jatkins> apparently HABs get blown out to see from down here
[22:13] <rharrison_> Good even
[22:13] <jatkins> or london
[22:14] <jatkins> jcoxon: is it reasonable to downlink a full nmea string - or should the flight comp parse it to compact it?
[22:14] <jatkins> a full nmea string is roughly 70 bytes on the lassen iq
[22:14] <jcoxon> ummmm, its a possible but its not difficult to parse it onboard
[22:14] <rharrison_> There is a bit on the wiki about srting format
[22:14] <rharrison_> for radio
[22:14] <jatkins> cool, i'll have a look
[22:14] <rharrison_> There is quite a bit of parsing code kicking arround
[22:15] <jatkins> i've written a ground parser
[22:15] <jatkins> but that requires you to downlink the entire string
[22:15] <rharrison_> If you want some I have some that should work.
[22:15] <rharrison_> Cool you can port it easily if it's in C
[22:15] <jatkins> which when encoded in ascii winds up about 210 bytes, ie 56 seconds @ 30 bits/second
[22:15] <jatkins> well arduino is basically c
[22:15] <jatkins> it's based on processing and wiring
[22:16] <jatkins> but you don't have the luxury of substr() etc
[22:16] <jatkins> you just have to set a counter and then ignore the chars you don't want
[22:16] <Laurenceb> I'm working on MFSK64, which will hopefully allow about the same downlink speed, but with much higher reliablility
[22:16] <jcoxon> jatkins, you do if you use string.h
[22:16] <jatkins> i'll post my code (it's php - the idea being that it's used in a web based tracker)
[22:16] <jatkins> that works with arduino?
[22:16] <Laurenceb> annoyingly its not working atm, the documentation is very hard to follow
[22:17] <Laurenceb> its in pure c
[22:17] <jatkins> k&r?
[22:17] <rharrison_> hehe
[22:17] <Laurenceb> ?
[22:17] <jatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%26R_C
[22:17] <rharrison_> Jernagan ritchi
[22:17] <rharrison_> kernagan
[22:17] <jatkins> yeah
[22:17] <Laurenceb> ?!
[22:17] <jcoxon> jatkins, interested to see your parser
[22:17] <jatkins> yeah, will put it up
[22:17] <jatkins> brb
[22:17] <jcoxon> we've developed a disttributed listening system
[22:18] <rharrison_> Right guys I'm having an early
[22:18] <jatkins> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:gps_php_parser
[22:18] rharrison_ (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc:
[22:18] <Laurenceb> I mean the mfsk64 protocol documentation
[22:18] <jatkins> it's part xhtml / javascript as it's from the full tracker i've done
[22:19] <jatkins> oh right
[22:19] <Laurenceb> in particular endianess
[22:19] <Laurenceb> but it has FEC and interleaving, so should be very robust
[22:19] <jatkins> mfsk64 is a radio protocol?
[22:20] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:20] <jatkins> cool
[22:20] <Laurenceb> its supported by fldigi
[22:20] <edmoore> you need much higher stability for it than dominoex or some other differential protocol
[22:20] <edmoore> but you probably know that
[22:21] <jatkins> http://www.w1hkj.com/Fldigi.html - is fldigi what you'd use on the rx end?
[22:21] <jatkins> ie for tracking the balloon
[22:21] <edmoore> it's a radio decoding program and it's good
[22:21] <jatkins> cool
[22:21] <Laurenceb> edmoore: I think with the frequency tracking it should be ok
[22:21] <jatkins> does it work w/ rtty
[22:21] <jatkins> ?
[22:21] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:22] <Laurenceb> its drift not instability we're dealing with
[22:22] <edmoore> you plug the audio output of the radio receiver into the soundcard of your pc, and fldigi uses the pc soundcard and decodes the audio into text. it supports rtty yes, and many other radio protocols
[22:22] <jatkins> cool
[22:23] <Laurenceb> maybe I'll switch to using dominoex, I cant work out the documentation or lack therof
[22:24] <jatkins> edmoore: so yagi + nrx2 + fldigi = balloon tracking system?
[22:24] <jatkins> or is there more needed
[22:24] <jatkins> ?
[22:24] <edmoore> jatkins: in theory yes, although you *may* find the nrx2 is not quite sensitive enough
[22:24] <jatkins> ok
[22:24] <edmoore> but I have never tried so i don't know
[22:24] <jatkins> k
[22:24] <jcoxon> jatkins, we can pick it up with our radios though
[22:25] <jatkins> cool
[22:25] <edmoore> with one of the 169Mhz 500mW units, you should have no problems
[22:25] <jatkins> so i only need a tx?
[22:25] <jatkins> cool
[22:25] <edmoore> jatkins: yeah. if you come to cambridge to launch you can borrow one of our radios
[22:25] <jatkins> neat, thx
[22:25] <edmoore> and everyone else will be tracking it too
[22:25] <jatkins> cool
[22:25] <edmoore> with their own radios
[22:25] <jatkins> yeah
[22:26] <Laurenceb> we've never used the nrx2
[22:26] <jatkins> but the ntx2 is ok for tx?
[22:26] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:26] <jatkins> great
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[22:27] <jatkins> jcoxon: here's my tracker: http://aerospace.snikta.co.uk/?p=track&nmea=191407.00,5206.2057,N,00051.4969,W,1,05,2.56,00066,M,047,M,,*77
[22:27] <jatkins> it basically disects the nmea and puts it into a google map
[22:28] <jatkins> (thats not actually my location)
[22:28] <jcoxon> oh nice
[22:28] <jcoxon> jatkins, have you seen ours?
[22:28] <jatkins> natrium42s?
[22:28] <jcoxon> we've adapted how we feed natrium's
[22:28] <jatkins> cool
[22:28] <jatkins> he takes xml or something doesn't he?
[22:29] <jcoxon> so now we have a server which collects data from lpots listeniers
[22:29] <jatkins> oh cool
[22:29] <jatkins> is it GET or POST?
[22:29] <jcoxon> oops bad typing
[22:29] <jcoxon> POST
[22:29] <jatkins> k
[22:29] <jcoxon> you run a client and it auto uploads
[22:29] <jatkins> yeah
[22:29] <jcoxon> multiple listeners
[22:30] <jatkins> would i need curl or something?
[22:30] <jatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CURL
[22:30] <jatkins> or just http headers on the tracker i've got already
[22:30] <jatkins> ie http://php.net/header
[22:30] <jcoxon> i have a python client
[22:30] <jatkins> is this on the wiki?
[22:30] <jatkins> k
[22:31] <jatkins> if i install python runtime that would work on winxp?
[22:31] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:31] <jatkins> k
[22:31] <jatkins> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:tracker ?
[22:32] <jcoxon> ihttp://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:dlistener
[22:32] <jcoxon> but thats old
[22:32] <jcoxon> will update
[22:32] <jcoxon> bbiab
[22:32] <jatkins> cya
[22:32] <jatkins> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:tracker - it does twitter, that's awesome! :)
[22:33] <jatkins> br
[22:33] <jatkins> b
[22:39] <jatkins> back
[22:42] <jcoxon> i'm back too
[22:44] <jatkins> hi
[22:44] <jatkins> i've put my phone on charge, it's outta battery
[22:44] <jatkins> how do i connect it to the arduino?
[22:44] <jatkins> just solder to the pins?
[22:45] <jatkins> http://flickr.com/photos/rabbitnyc/2507585112/sizes/l/ this guy's used a breadboard over the arduino
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[22:50] <jatkins> hi natrium42
[22:51] <natrium42> hey jatkins
[22:55] <jatkins> natrium42: are you flying another halo mission this year?
[22:55] <natrium42> yes for sure
[22:55] <jatkins> cool
[22:55] <jatkins> this would be halo3?
[22:55] <natrium42> haha
[22:56] <natrium42> maybe i should get a different name
[22:56] <jatkins> it's a pretty neat one
[22:56] <jatkins> what are you planning for the flight - as in major objectives?
[22:56] <jatkins> photo downlink again?
[22:56] <natrium42> it would be a test of some systems required for transatlantic launch
[22:56] <jatkins> neat
[22:56] <jatkins> like snox?
[22:56] <natrium42> i.e. satellite phone system, camera system
[22:56] <jatkins> yeah
[22:57] <natrium42> i will downlink at least one photo
[22:57] <jatkins> cool
[22:57] <jatkins> halo1 downlinked 160x120 px?
[22:57] <natrium42> need to conserve my minutes though :P
[22:57] <jatkins> lol
[22:57] <jatkins> - did you downlink via phone then?
[22:57] <jatkins> or radio?
[22:58] <natrium42> 256px × 192px
[22:58] <jatkins> neat
[22:58] <natrium42> 900MHz radio
[22:58] <natrium42> phone wouldn't work that high
[22:58] <jatkins> oh right
[22:58] <jatkins> what protocol?
[22:59] <natrium42> kermit
[22:59] <jatkins> i guess rtty would not be suitable? is it a binary protocol?
[22:59] <natrium42> yeah, it's a fault tolerant protocol
[22:59] <jatkins> nice
[22:59] <jatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_(protocol) ?
[22:59] <natrium42> the link was at 9600 baud
[23:00] <jatkins> wow - that's pretty low for photos
[23:00] <jatkins> how long did it take?
[23:00] <jatkins> per image
[23:00] <natrium42> a few mins
[23:00] <natrium42> it's not too bad
[23:00] <jatkins> awesome
[23:00] <natrium42> satellite is going to be 2400 baud :D
[23:00] <jatkins> oh
[23:00] <jatkins> lol
[23:00] <jatkins> did you have to compress a lot?
[23:03] <natrium42> <jatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_(protocol) ? <-- yes
[23:03] <natrium42> well, it's JPEG
[23:03] <natrium42> so it's compressed
[23:03] <jatkins> yeah
[23:03] <jatkins> so it was a few KB per image?
[23:04] bfirsh (n=ben@host-137-205-75-156.res.warwick.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[23:04] <natrium42> yah, 8KB or so
[23:05] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/balloon/downlinked%20thumbs/
[23:05] <jatkins> cool
[23:05] <jatkins> 8 KB / 9600 bps = 6.8 seconds
[23:05] <jatkins> am i missing something?
[23:06] <natrium42> sounds right
[23:06] <natrium42> higher res would take longer
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> jatkins: framing perhaps
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> jatkins: if it's RS232 8N1, then you have 2 framing bits per 8 data
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[23:12] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, i want my DX order :(
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> I want your DX order too.
[23:13] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> I may have mentioned I was looking for a broken screen EEE PC for use for my carputer.
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> I now have one!
[23:14] <natrium42> lol
[23:14] Action: SpeedEvil dropped a box on his eeepc
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:14] <natrium42> oops :P
[23:17] josepharmbruster (n=josephar@45.144.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:21] <natrium42> josepharmbruster, so when is launch? :)
[23:29] <josepharmbruster> natrium: hey !
[23:29] <josepharmbruster> natrium: i spent most of today at the cape, with my wife and some extended family :-)
[23:29] <josepharmbruster> natrium: just got back, have a boatload of photos... probably post some up later tonight
[23:30] <josepharmbruster> natrium: give me a few, have to snatch some food
[23:30] <josepharmbruster> natrium: btw, i picked up my book for general license.. and am starting to study it... i also picked up the ARRL handbook for 2k9 :-)
[23:32] <natrium42> nice
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[23:44] <josepharmbruster> natrium42: back for a few, wife is making soup and i'm heating up leftovers... hehe
[23:45] <natrium42> leftovers ftw
[23:46] Action: SpeedEvil did pork shank yesterday. $2 or so, enough for 2, 12 hours slow-cooking, bay, rosmary, thyme, chili, garlic. So buttery and soft and yummy.
[23:46] <josepharmbruster> i took some photos i want to make into a panorama :-)
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> That's a lot of leftovers!
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> I can usually get mine in one shot.
[23:48] <natrium42> panorama of the leftovers?
[23:48] <natrium42> :P
[23:48] <josepharmbruster> haha, noooo
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[23:49] <SpeedEvil> I've been idly wondering about live panorama stuff for my carputer.
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> Fusing the output of 4-6 120 degree cameras into one screen.
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> For a fake overhead view.
[23:50] <josepharmbruster> ok, brb in 15.. gnaw time
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> wave.
[23:53] <natrium42> bbl
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[00:00] --- Mon Feb 9 2009