highaltitude.log.20090112

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[11:02] <Laurenceb> hello
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[11:07] <rharrison_eee> hi all
[11:07] <rharrison_eee> just testing
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[11:21] <Laurenceb> eee pc ?
[11:22] <Laurenceb> eee by gum
[11:35] <rjharrison> hehe
[11:35] <rjharrison> Hi Laurenceb
[11:35] <rjharrison> I should have used TAPI
[11:35] <rjharrison> but hey ho
[11:35] <rjharrison> I'll stick with NMEA as I'm so close
[11:36] <Laurenceb> eeeww TAIP
[11:36] <Laurenceb> TSIP is simpler imo
[11:37] <Laurenceb> you can just use pointers to shove incomping bytes into a struct
[11:38] <rjharrison> Opps TSIP is what I meant
[11:39] <rjharrison> You live and learn as they say
[11:39] <rjharrison> I'm ready for the next launch now
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[12:04] <rjharrison> CUSF going to launch soon?
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[12:05] <rjharrison> edmoore any news on cusf launch dates?
[12:06] <rjharrison> fergusnoble ?
[12:06] <fergusnoble> hello
[12:06] <rjharrison> hi
[12:07] <fergusnoble> yeah, we have
[12:07] <rjharrison> Just wondered if you guys are going to be up for a lunch sooish
[12:07] <fergusnoble> oops
[12:07] <fergusnoble> we want to do a launch with the 3kg balloon when we get it
[12:07] <rjharrison> wow
[12:07] <rjharrison> that should beat the hell out of my alt
[12:07] <fergusnoble> and have some more sponsor stuff to send up
[12:07] <fergusnoble> weather permitting
[12:08] <fergusnoble> should be doing something soon
[12:08] <rjharrison> Will you be going for alt?
[12:08] <fergusnoble> yeah, thought we'd give it a go
[12:08] <rjharrison> I'v a theory that i'm on the limits with alt and staying in the Uk
[12:08] <rjharrison> I'v basically been very lucky
[12:09] <rjharrison> on the tracker the speeds are in knots not km/h as stated
[12:09] <fergusnoble> yeah there have been a couple of close ones
[12:09] <fergusnoble> we'll just have to wait for a perfect day
[12:09] <rjharrison> so at some points it was close to 200 km/h
[12:10] <rjharrison> if you look just befor burst it was hammering as each sample is ~14 seconds
[12:10] <edmoore> back
[12:10] <edmoore> I think we're looking to try a dual balloon launch pretty soon
[12:11] <rjharrison> 144.4 knots = 267.4288 km/h
[12:11] <rjharrison> Just after burst
[12:11] <rjharrison> that's quite good i thought
[12:12] <edmoore> that's really very fast indeed
[12:12] <edmoore> fergusnoble: up for a blast re-showing 2moz?
[12:12] <rjharrison> I noticed that the speeds was still in knots due to changes in nema
[12:12] <rjharrison> nmea code
[12:13] <edmoore> I think laurenceb said it, but TSIP is probably a sensible thing to use
[12:13] <edmoore> nmea is just so nigel's yaught transponder can plug into garmin's handheld gps
[12:13] <rjharrison> Yep
[12:14] <rjharrison> I think I'll make the change sometime
[12:14] <edmoore> but the proprietary binary protocol is pretty powerful and useful, and more natively understandable to the avr
[12:14] <rjharrison> I'm not planning om moving away from the IQ noe
[12:14] <edmoore> we're jumping ship pretty soon
[12:14] <edmoore> depending on how a test goes
[12:14] <rjharrison> to IQ
[12:15] <edmoore> though I think henry has a bunch of IQs that he no longer needs
[12:15] <rjharrison> or to TSIP
[12:15] <edmoore> he bought 10 but isn't using them
[12:15] <fergusnoble> to ublox 5
[12:15] <fergusnoble> already using tsip
[12:15] <edmoore> if you need some, he might be able to help
[12:15] <rjharrison> will tsip work with UBLOX?
[12:15] <edmoore> already using IQ too :)
[12:16] <rjharrison> I thought the T was for TRIMBLE
[12:16] <edmoore> no, tsip is trimple's proprietary binary interface
[12:16] <fergusnoble> no, tsip is a trimble proprietry thing
[12:16] <edmoore> ublox has one alled UBX
[12:16] <edmoore> they all do nmea though
[12:16] <rjharrison> So you'll have to play with the code
[12:16] <rjharrison> humm
[12:16] <fergusnoble> yeah, will need to recode all the gps comms
[12:16] <rjharrison> so there is some portability in NMEA
[12:16] <edmoore> i'll just be quiet. fergusnoble and i are clearly subliminally connected
[12:17] <rjharrison> hehe
[12:17] <fergusnoble> yeah nmea is an industry standard
[12:17] <fergusnoble> every gps will do nmea to some degree
[12:17] <rjharrison> the dp's seem a bit flexible
[12:18] <rjharrison> sometimes more sometimes less
[12:18] <fergusnoble> yeah its not so easy to parse as the binary protocals
[12:18] <rjharrison> double balloon is a good idea for alt
[12:18] <fergusnoble> also i think you need tsip to get the double precision fixes from the iQ
[12:18] <rjharrison> not sure about how it will effect the para though
[12:18] <rjharrison> Don't thinkso for the IQ
[12:19] <fergusnoble> rjharrison: has potential to all tangle horribly i think :)
[12:19] <rjharrison> I seemed to have got an extra DP for lat and long on the IQ compared to the SKII
[12:19] <fergusnoble> cool
[12:19] <edmoore> rjharrison: i'm not sure double is so good for alt
[12:19] <edmoore> one bigger balloon is more efficient than two smaller ones to get a given mass to a given alt
[12:20] <rjharrison> Well it would get you up fing quick and then the leader would pop allowing the other to finish off the alt
[12:20] <fergusnoble> edmoore: but i think its more cost effective
[12:20] <rjharrison> It's more about staying out of the sea me thinks
[12:20] <rjharrison> I could be wrong
[12:21] <fergusnoble> ok, bbl
[12:21] <rjharrison> Def. a 100g lift will give you a record. Just not in the UK
[12:21] <edmoore> rjharrison: the overfill-underfill one has sort of yet to be proved
[12:21] <rjharrison> ahh
[12:21] <rjharrison> a challenge :)
[12:21] <edmoore> I think it can be done, but not in the way it has been done so far - you'd have to do some sums i think to calc the right amount of fill for each one to prevent rubbing
[12:22] <rjharrison> would they be close enought ot rub?
[12:22] <fergusnoble> weferg
[12:22] <fergusnoble> keyboard spaff
[12:22] <rjharrison> staggered with say 20m between them
[12:23] <rjharrison> Have conf. 2 eee's now into mobile chase and balloon monitoring stations
[12:23] <edmoore> rjharrison: it's more one balloon rubbing on a string or whatever
[12:23] <rjharrison> ahh true
[12:24] <rjharrison> jc was quite sensitive about playing with the balloons
[12:24] <edmoore> but yeah, definitely something to be explored
[12:24] <rjharrison> I don't treat them so carefully
[12:24] <rjharrison> Someting about hand oil and latex
[12:24] <edmoore> i would probably make it such that each of the balloons on its own has enough lift to lift the payload on its own (only just) and use two equal balloons
[12:25] <edmoore> rjharrison: i think it's basically fine most of the time
[12:25] <rjharrison> interesting
[12:25] <edmoore> i mean it's undeniable that the oils on your skin will reduce the yeild strength of the latex
[12:25] <rjharrison> well I'm hoping for a launch soon
[12:25] <edmoore> but to what extent I'm not sure
[12:25] <rjharrison> I agree but there's no oil in my skin at -1 deg in the morning
[12:26] <edmoore> :)
[12:26] <rjharrison> perhaps a sweaty summers day
[12:26] <edmoore> i'm not too worried
[12:26] <edmoore> more worried about a metal watch strap snagging on it or something
[12:26] <rjharrison> My next is going up like a rocket
[12:26] <rjharrison> yep
[12:26] <edmoore> wyzat?
[12:26] <rjharrison> ie fast not powered
[12:27] <rjharrison> I'm sending the camera and I would like that back
[12:27] <rjharrison> not ready to loose it yet
[12:27] <edmoore> pick the ascent rate for the conditions, i would
[12:27] <rjharrison> is that between fast and bloody fast then
[12:27] <edmoore> of course you need a decent prediction
[12:27] <edmoore> or you could do simple cutdwon logic
[12:27] <edmoore> a radius from launch
[12:28] <edmoore> or slightly less simple - a simple polygon map of allowable space
[12:28] <rjharrison> That was a long drive to dover
[12:28] <rjharrison> yep I want cutdown
[12:28] <edmoore> you can use the line-crossing algorithm to check to see if you're in it or outside it
[12:28] <rjharrison> But that is not simple
[12:28] <rjharrison> ye[
[12:28] <edmoore> it can be that simple
[12:28] <rjharrison> yep
[12:28] <rjharrison> the mechanism?
[12:29] <edmoore> oh a cutdown mechanism is barely a mechanism
[12:29] <rjharrison> I'm happy with the logic
[12:29] <edmoore> it's a small tube filled with black powder
[12:29] <rjharrison> and an electric match
[12:29] <edmoore> yeah
[12:29] <rjharrison> will it burn at those alts
[12:29] <edmoore> maybe put 2 on just to be safe
[12:29] <rjharrison> ignight?
[12:29] <edmoore> it will ignite yeah
[12:29] <edmoore> it's sealed in a plastic tube
[12:30] <edmoore> so doesn't care what the outside pressure is doing
[12:30] <rjharrison> once it's off it has it's own 02
[12:30] <rjharrison> o2
[12:30] <edmoore> all explosives have their own oxidiser
[12:30] <edmoore> otherwise they're not very good at exploding
[12:30] <rjharrison> beat me to it
[12:31] <rjharrison> realy on 9v battery?
[12:31] <edmoore> now some people have issues with black powder at altitude, but that's whn it's exposed to low exturnal pressure
[12:31] <rjharrison> relay
[12:31] <edmoore> rjharrison: mosfet
[12:31] <edmoore> relay = antideluvian
[12:32] <rjharrison> ok
[12:32] <rjharrison> I can do that
[12:32] <edmoore> lighter cheaper more reliable
[12:32] <rjharrison> I'll have a go at getting some nice black powder
[12:32] <edmoore> a gun shop will do it
[12:32] <edmoore> countryside shop, even
[12:32] <edmoore> smokeless powder - not as strong as black powder but completely fine for this app
[12:32] <rjharrison> cartridge?
[12:32] <edmoore> no, just 0.5L tubs
[12:32] <rjharrison> or loose powder
[12:32] <edmoore> it's as easy as that
[12:33] <rjharrison> sounds fun
[12:33] <edmoore> you *might* need a form called an RCA
[12:33] <edmoore> it's trivially easy to get
[12:33] <rjharrison> police stn
[12:33] <edmoore> they're meant to ask you to produce it but we've never been asked yet
[12:33] <edmoore> rjharrison: yep they'll have one there
[12:33] <rjharrison> cool This sound like a whole new dimension
[12:34] <edmoore> you can just use old fireworks too :)
[12:34] <rjharrison> didn't almost injure jc with one of those :)
[12:34] <edmoore> one did go off in his face once
[12:34] <rjharrison> Ok it was only once
[12:34] <edmoore> he's not a big fan of pyrotechnics :)
[12:34] <edmoore> yeah
[12:35] <edmoore> the cutdown logic had a bug
[12:35] <rjharrison> mechanical option?
[12:35] <edmoore> you could use a servo or something
[12:35] <edmoore> a screw-driven pull-pin
[12:35] <rjharrison> esp inside the box as payloads don't seem to get that cold
[12:35] <rjharrison> Yep
[12:35] <rjharrison> That was what I was thinking
[12:36] <edmoore> you can but pull-pins off the shelf too
[12:36] <edmoore> used in industry the whole time
[12:36] <edmoore> they're contained pyrotechnic things
[12:37] <rjharrison> I'll have a look I do fancy a mechanical pull pin
[12:37] <edmoore> you'll be buying a lathe before you know it
[12:37] <edmoore> slippery slope
[12:37] <rjharrison> hehe
[12:37] <rjharrison> no fear
[12:38] <edmoore> (colchester student/ myford super 7 are both lovely btw)
[12:38] <rjharrison> Though a nice bit of shaped plastic would be good
[12:38] <rjharrison> hehe
[12:40] <rjharrison> right I'm going to do some work honnest
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[13:27] <rjharrison> http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7821979.stm
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[17:04] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[17:26] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[17:29] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[17:29] <jcoxon> hows camb?
[17:37] <edmoore> a bit drizzley
[17:40] <jcoxon> same
[17:43] <jcoxon> edmoore, you taken your icom back to cam?
[17:44] <edmoore> naturally!
[17:44] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:44] <jcoxon> plans to erect an antenna?
[17:44] <edmoore> tis sitting next to me right now
[17:44] <edmoore> my room is appallingly positioned, if you can cast your mind back
[17:45] <jcoxon> indeed it is
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[17:46] <jcoxon> just downloading the BLAST show onto my desktop from iplayer
[17:47] <edmoore> we're doing a showing of it in my room tomorrow
[17:47] <jcoxon> its quite long!
[17:47] <edmoore> + pizza
[17:47] <edmoore> 1hr 20 I think
[17:47] <jcoxon> sounds cool
[17:53] <edmoore> right bbl
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[18:01] <natrium42> like hi
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[18:44] <natrium42> Hi Hiena
[18:44] <Hiena> Hi all!
[18:44] <natrium42> what's up?
[18:45] <Hiena> Helium?
[18:45] <natrium42> (^ the #1 question for HAB)
[18:45] <natrium42> doesn't it escape earth?
[18:45] <Hiena> I have a backpain from the 01.01.09 accident.
[18:46] <natrium42> aah :S
[18:46] <natrium42> how is your buddy?
[18:46] <Hiena> Can't scratch his ass due the cast on his arm. Except that he is fine.
[18:47] <natrium42> good to hear
[18:47] <natrium42> are paragliders safer to land than hang gliders?
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[19:04] <SpeedEvil> you can kill yourself quite adequately in both.
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[19:07] <rjharrison> evening all
[19:07] <natrium42> ohai rjharrison
[19:08] <rjharrison> hi natrium42
[19:08] <rjharrison> I had a good look around your pictures today
[19:08] <rjharrison> HALO 1 & 2
[19:08] <rjharrison> Nice
[19:08] <natrium42> hehe, thx
[19:08] <rjharrison> Did you call it HALO after the microsoft game?
[19:08] <rjharrison> Or was tha coincidence
[19:09] <rjharrison> You must have had a squillion hits becaus of that
[19:09] <rjharrison> ANy news on the tracker
[19:09] <natrium42> maybe it was a stupid choice in retrospect
[19:09] <natrium42> nah, i was working on some iphone apps
[19:10] <natrium42> should have some time this week, though
[19:10] <rjharrison> COol
[19:10] <rjharrison> THat centring if it's possible would be fantasitc
[19:10] <rjharrison> A little check box on the latest info box
[19:11] <rjharrison> No sure if it is possible tought
[19:11] <rjharrison> not
[19:11] <rjharrison> though
[19:12] <natrium42> well, i am making an entire user system with groups etc
[19:18] <natrium42> and groupies!
[19:18] <natrium42> ... no, not that
[19:24] <rjharrison> It would be good if you could select between objects as some times it's nice to centre on the chase car and other times the balloon. Ideally without having to change the selected zoom or map type
[19:24] <rjharrison> Tall order i know
[19:24] <rjharrison> If there is anything I can do to help let me knoe
[19:24] <rjharrison> know
[19:24] <rjharrison> my php is a bit rusty but I can do a bit
[19:26] <natrium42> well, it's a lot of javascript, mainly
[19:26] <rjharrison> aaah that is not my speciality at all
[19:27] <natrium42> i kinda decided to do it more ajaxy
[19:27] <natrium42> so you can log in without reloading the page
[19:28] <natrium42> and start deleting buggy points, etc
[19:29] <rjharrison> hopefully buggy points will be less common when the listener is working properly
[19:30] <rjharrison> Esp. when we set it to a miniumum of two independent matches before submissino
[19:30] <rjharrison> submission
[19:35] <rjharrison> opps
[19:48] <natrium42> bbl
[20:16] <edmoore> natrium42: I like the idea of the groupies
[20:21] <rjharrison> edmoore me too
[20:21] <rjharrison> Though my wife won't understand
[20:22] <rjharrison> Hey rocketboys code is cool for gps testing
[20:22] <edmoore> can't always help that
[20:23] <rjharrison> are there such things as hab groupies
[20:23] <rjharrison> they might be a bit geeky
[20:23] <edmoore> if I can persuade them
[20:23] <edmoore> teddy bears have been good currency
[20:23] <rjharrison> my wife is a hab widow :)
[20:23] <edmoore> :)
[20:24] <rjharrison> comiled nice under linux
[20:24] <rjharrison> compiled even
[20:24] <rjharrison> just used stty to set the port up
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[20:24] <rjharrison> the man
[20:24] <rjharrison> You must have heard me steve
[20:25] <rjharrison> Just comiled up your GPSgen and emulate code under linux
[20:25] <rjharrison> works a reat
[20:25] <rjharrison> treat
[20:25] <rjharrison> used stty -F /dev/ttyUSB0 ospeed 4800
[20:26] <rjharrison> BTW RocketBoy checqu should be with you tomorrow morning
[20:26] <rjharrison> BTW you don't put your postcode on your invoice
[20:41] <RocketBoy> rharrison: great on the linux version of my code - I tried to do it in such a way that it would work non most posix platforms - its good to hear that it worked
[20:44] <RocketBoy> postcode sent in email
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[20:59] <Hiena> natrium42, answer to your question: The hang glider is safer because you have an impacct absorbing zone around you.
[21:00] <Hiena> The glider and the A.frame pick-up the 75% of the impact.
[21:03] <Hiena> Btw, i have a 2mV success with my first thermopile experiment.
[21:03] <Hiena> I need a spot welder badly.
[21:06] <edmoore> Hiena: what is the spot welder for?
[21:08] <Hiena> Welding the copper and steel plates together. Now i'm using arch welder, and seems i'll need to do a 8 or 10.000 welds steals the fun.
[21:08] <edmoore> I can imagine. What sort of thickness?
[21:08] <Hiena> 1.5mm
[21:09] <Hiena> I'm going for the high current output.
[21:09] <edmoore> ok. Might be a bit beyond the crop of 'DIY' spot welders on the internet
[21:11] <Hiena> Jup.
[21:11] <Hiena> Anyhow. Looks like for 1V i'll need weld 6000 connection.
[21:12] <Hiena> Tomorrow, i'll try to do it from a copper wire.
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[21:41] <rjharrison> hi jcoxon
[21:42] <jcoxon> evening
[21:49] Nick change: Bluenarf -> EI5GTB
[21:59] <edmoore> jcoxon: http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
[21:59] <edmoore> between 3585 and 3590
[21:59] <edmoore> there's dominoex
[21:59] <edmoore> 3586.5 ish
[22:00] <edmoore> there's also some psk31 and morse just above it
[22:01] <edmoore> 14mhz looks totally barren
[22:01] <jcoxon> edmoore, you need to get stringing some wire for an antenna
[22:02] <edmoore> wyzat?
[22:02] <jcoxon> to get broadcasting and recieving on HF
[22:02] <edmoore> so we can try this lot out?
[22:02] <edmoore> you are correct
[22:02] <edmoore> i wonder what the best way to go about this is
[22:03] <edmoore> jcoxon: do you think there's a thunder storm?
[22:04] <edmoore> there's loads of crackingly occassionally covering the entire band
[22:04] <jcoxon> not sure
[22:04] <jcoxon> not experienced enough
[22:05] <edmoore> will need to figure out this antenna tuning lark
[22:05] <edmoore> I'm sure I don't need to spend hundreds on an ATU
[22:05] <jcoxon> i think there are good kits
[22:05] <edmoore> this DominoEX stuff sounds proper cool)
[22:05] <jcoxon> remember being told about it
[22:05] <edmoore> may have to try it on a flight
[22:06] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:06] <jcoxon> if bill brown suggests then it must be good
[22:06] <edmoore> can make more use of the bandwidth of the radiometrix at any rate
[22:06] <edmoore> haha yeah :)
[22:07] <edmoore> i adore looking at this site
[22:07] <edmoore> it's like the band plan in waterfall format
[22:08] <edmoore> right, going to pop out for a drink
[22:08] <edmoore> bl
[22:08] <edmoore> bbl*
[22:08] <edmoore> jcoxon: cool shizzle, non?
[22:08] <jcoxon> oui
[22:09] <edmoore> it sounds kind of etherial
[22:09] <edmoore> thanks for the stealth links too
[22:09] <jcoxon> :-)
[22:13] <RocketBoy> oh wow that webSDR site is so cool 7062.49 kHz - D3ZVR
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[22:13] <RocketBoy> RD3ZVR
[22:38] <RocketBoy> wow I managed to decode somthing with truetty :- LOCATOR KO91WJ KO.1WJ
[22:39] <RocketBoy> 7042.01 kHz
[22:39] <natrium42> speaker -> air -> mic ?
[22:39] <RocketBoy> OK1DIG DE UA3QIX
[22:39] <RocketBoy> headphone out into mic in (lead)
[22:40] <natrium42> ah
[22:41] <RocketBoy> 170Hz shift 50 baud RTTY
[22:41] <jcoxon> very cool
[22:41] <jcoxon> need to use it on a trans launch
[22:43] <RocketBoy> yep - it would be way cool to replicate it a few times round the world
[22:44] <RocketBoy> damn I think I'm going to have to buy some HF gear
[22:44] <jcoxon> haha
[22:44] <jcoxon> bringing back memories :-p
[22:46] <RocketBoy> a bit - I only did a little HF stuff - mostly top band
[22:46] <jcoxon> :-)
[22:49] <RocketBoy> I was thinking the way to do HAB rx cheaply is to get a RX - take out the 455KHz IF into a SDR running at 455KHz
[22:50] <RocketBoy> (or 10.7MHz IF) then we could track the frequency changes across the 15Kz or so passsband
[22:51] <RocketBoy> Gotta go - that was fun - are ether any other SDRs on the web?
[22:59] <RocketBoy> wow also decoded some BPSK-31 by the same method
[23:02] <RocketBoy> night
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[23:39] <Laurenceb> hello
[23:43] <rjharrison> hi Laurenceb
[00:00] --- Tue Jan 13 2009