highaltitude.log.20090111

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[01:08] <edmoore|away> Laurenceb: you need to deconvolve with a 1D time reponse function then 2D deconvolve with the point spread function for thermopiles
[01:08] <edmoore|away> of course
[01:09] <edmoore|away> why sisn't I think of that!?
[01:09] <edmoore|away> didn't*
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[07:21] <EarlJr> hmm
[07:21] <EarlJr> it appears I am a bit outside of your guys' range
[07:22] <natrium42> hi
[07:23] <EarlJr> hello
[07:25] <natrium42> i don't remember seeing you here before, are you new?
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[07:30] <EarlJr> fairly, yes
[07:31] <EarlJr> I have a bit of interest in high altitude research in general
[07:33] <EarlJr> particularly researching auroral phenomona
[07:44] <natrium42> aah, cool
[07:45] <natrium42> g'nite
[07:47] <EarlJr> night
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[08:46] <rharrison_eee> morning all
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[09:18] <rharrison_eee> edmoore: morning
[09:18] <edmoore> yo!
[09:19] <edmoore> eee working then?
[09:19] <rharrison_eee> Yep
[09:19] <rharrison_eee> Perfect
[09:19] <rharrison_eee> Get over to fldigi and get the binary compiled for linux
[09:19] <rharrison_eee> Top option
[09:19] <rharrison_eee> Latest version
[09:19] <edmoore> ok
[09:19] <rharrison_eee> 3.03
[09:20] <rharrison_eee> Just replace the existing binary in /usr/bin/fldigi
[09:20] <rharrison_eee> simple gunzip
[09:20] <rharrison_eee> and then untar
[09:21] <rharrison_eee> tar =xzvf did not seem to work
[09:21] <rharrison_eee> -xzvf
[09:23] <rharrison_eee> You have given my asus a new lease of life
[09:24] <edmoore> the eeebuntu maintainers have :)
[09:24] <edmoore> wireless net sharing never works on my macbook pro after a sleep
[09:24] <edmoore> anoying
[09:29] <rharrison_eee> Next to get VNC working on here so I can access my desktop on the move
[09:29] <edmoore> it just worked for me
[09:30] <edmoore> did irc yesterday from my mac but actually from my eee via vnc
[09:30] <edmoore> right, breakfast
[09:30] <edmoore> ttyl
[11:11] <edmoore> rharrison_eee: fldigi newbie works really well
[11:11] <edmoore> thanks!
[11:21] <edmoore> rjharrison: http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/950182-sensor-temp-comp-15psia-scx15an.html
[11:21] <edmoore> 0-15 psi
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[11:29] <edmoore> jcoxon: yo
[11:29] <edmoore> has it arrived?
[11:30] <jcoxon> morning
[11:31] <jcoxon> cocoamodem?
[11:31] <jcoxon> i think i've got the source code
[11:32] <jcoxon> planning to mod it?
[11:32] <edmoore> no...
[11:32] <edmoore> rjharrison mentioned you were getting a toy
[11:32] <jcoxon> indeed
[11:32] <jcoxon> i'm getting a ft-817
[11:32] <edmoore> it looks so nice
[11:33] <jcoxon> you sent me a message about cocoamodem though! i'm confused
[11:33] <edmoore> you know, i should have realised that sensitivity thing was a typo
[11:33] <jcoxon> it was more that its got the greatest reciving range for what i could afford
[11:33] <edmoore> i looked at it and just wondered why it seems so less sensitive on VHS than its competitors.
[11:33] <jcoxon> and also the batteries so don't need a power supply yet
[11:33] <jcoxon> something to get in the future
[11:34] <edmoore> but yeah, clearly a typo. it looks like a dream
[11:34] <edmoore> i was listening to local vhf datamodes yesterday
[11:35] <edmoore> re: cocoa modem, yeah i just accidently lost the package
[11:35] <edmoore> was going to have another poke
[11:35] <edmoore> but i guess I don't really need it
[11:36] <jcoxon> found it
[11:37] <jcoxon> 7.2mb
[11:37] <jcoxon> email it?
[11:37] <edmoore> s'ok, i can actually live without it for the time being, i think
[11:38] <jcoxon> okay cool
[11:39] <jcoxon> i'm not sure how good it really is
[11:39] <jcoxon> its a nice program as its native but i reckon fldigi on mac is as good
[11:39] <edmoore> yeah
[11:39] <edmoore> and it works great on the eee
[11:39] <jcoxon> indeed
[11:40] <jcoxon> the 3.03 version is much better then the old versions
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[11:52] <edmoore> jcoxon: just saw some DominoEX on 7Mhz
[11:52] <edmoore> on an online SDR thing
[11:54] <jcoxon> oooo really
[11:54] <edmoore> yeah
[11:54] <jcoxon> DominoEX is interesting, the way you only transmit the changes
[11:54] <edmoore> looks like the output of a punch card on the band
[12:06] <jcoxon> edmoore, you made any contacts then?
[12:06] <edmoore> just listened
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[12:06] <Laurenceb> hello
[12:08] <Laurenceb> edmoore: the problem is you really need to be above the tropopause
[12:08] <Laurenceb> i.e. is the stratosphere, above the jet stream
[12:09] <Laurenceb> my plan was to use the polar stratospheric vortex
[12:09] <edmoore> that would involve launching further north wouldn't it?
[12:09] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:10] <Laurenceb> well canada may well work
[12:10] <Laurenceb> but it may end up in france
[12:10] <edmoore> launching from where?
[12:10] <edmoore> oh i see
[12:11] <edmoore> they're not purely in that axis though are they?
[12:11] <Laurenceb> no...erm
[12:11] Action: Laurenceb tries to remember from his atmospherics exam
[12:12] <edmoore> so actually above the tropopause - i.e. the base of the stratosphere?
[12:12] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_vortex
[12:12] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:12] <Laurenceb> ~18 to 20 KM
[12:13] <edmoore> do you know what pressure that is off the top of your head?
[12:13] <Laurenceb> ~exp(-18/8)
[12:14] <Laurenceb> ~0.1
[12:14] <Laurenceb> Kg/m^3
[12:14] <edmoore> nice pressure unit :p
[12:16] <Laurenceb> 10Kpa
[12:16] <edmoore> 100mB ish
[12:16] <Laurenceb> http://www.aero.jussieu.fr/~sparc/News20/Figures/Baldwin_Fig02.jpg
[12:16] <Laurenceb> thats the antarctic
[12:18] <edmoore> need hysplit
[12:19] <edmoore> landing in France isn't a disaster, also
[12:19] <edmoore> an excuse for a trip
[12:20] <Laurenceb> wunderground has 200mB
[12:20] <Laurenceb> but thats rounghly the jet stream
[12:20] <edmoore> yeah i know - wish there was a nice graphical display that went higher
[12:20] <edmoore> would be interesting to see what sort of length of time we'd be talking
[12:21] <edmoore> it would also be pissing cold there
[12:21] <Laurenceb> some of our winter flights experienced quite high stratospheric wind
[12:22] <edmoore> indeed - the teddies was in the wind all the way up
[12:23] <edmoore> no gently vertical ascent out of the jetstream, it pounded it the whole time
[12:23] <Laurenceb> annoyingly I havent bookmarked that sounding database page I found a while back
[12:23] <edmoore> but yeah, we'd have to design everything to be happy for several days at -55
[12:23] <Laurenceb> http://raob.fsl.noaa.gov/
[12:24] <edmoore> maybe some kind of sun shield above the payload to stop it radiating out to space
[12:24] <edmoore> i.e. not a sun-shield at all - more an earth reflector
[12:26] <jcoxon> what are you two scheming about?
[12:27] <Laurenceb> http://raob.fsl.noaa.gov/temp/raob_soundings596.tmp
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[12:30] <rjharrison> hello
[12:31] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[12:31] <edmoore> jcoxon: more stable alts to get across
[12:32] <jcoxon> right
[12:32] <jcoxon> hysplit would be a good thing to run
[12:32] <edmoore> if you think about it, you want to be at the point where adding altitude also involves getting warmer
[12:33] <edmoore> if you make you neatural alt lower down, as your alt increases it cools down, which cools your gas down and decreses you lift and you start dropping
[12:33] <edmoore> also, if just above the pause, if you start to drop it gets warmer too, so you get some lift back
[12:34] <edmoore> it's naturally more stable, basically
[12:34] <edmoore> ballpark 100mB
[12:35] <edmoore> it might take a bit longer though, and it's cold!
[12:38] <rjharrison> bbiab kid needs entertaining
[12:44] <edmoore> right bbl
[12:44] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
[12:52] <rjharrison> back
[12:53] <rjharrison> I have fldigi 3.03 working on the eer
[12:53] <rjharrison> eee
[12:53] <rjharrison> and it's great
[12:57] <rjharrison> Just need to install winavr
[12:57] <rjharrison> For dodgy code updates on the fly
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[13:42] <edmoore|away> rjharrison: winavr is for win :p
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[14:16] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
[14:17] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if you could use MLI and a getter for a fill gas.
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[14:17] <SpeedEvil> (for insulation)
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[14:18] <SpeedEvil> Probably not, MLI needs annoyingly low pressures to work.
[14:20] Action: SpeedEvil did the numbers for MLI house insulation based on plywood panels with spacers, with Al foil inside, with MLI inside that.
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> Worked out OK actually, but would pretty much require active pumping.
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> -55C. say half of IR radiation is incident usable energy, that's 250W/m^2. Say .25m^2 payload on bottom, that's 75W. So to keep it at 0C, with 1.5m^2, we need under 50W/m^2 of loss through the insulation, or 1W/m^2/K. Hmm. 2cm of kingspan. (assuming hypothetical IR transparent kingspan on the bottom.
[14:35] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how to do it in reality.
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> quadruple glazed coated IR transparent plastic?
[14:37] Action: SpeedEvil wonders at polythene.
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> It's mostly transparent to thermal IR.
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> I wonder what the equilibrium temp of a 10cm kingspan box with quadruple poly glazing on the bottom'd be.
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> with argon or more exotic fill
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> That's pretty good - >80% IR transmissivity from 5-25um (of 14um HDPE film)
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> http://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/FreeSnell/polyethylene.html
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> If only you could get coated ones.
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> Actually - coated ones won't matter so much in this app, as compared with normal double glazing, most of the energy is in the IR)
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[14:51] <SpeedEvil> Or less exotic actually - propane fill should work.
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[16:08] <RocketBoy> A video about blast on iplayer (if you guys havn't seen it already) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00gn3zn/Storyville_Blast!/
[16:10] <RocketBoy> Some of the voices during the launches have the same level of angziety that you get a UKHAS launch.
[16:11] <RocketBoy> BBL
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[18:24] <rjharrison> G8KHW payment should be with you monday sorry about the delay
[18:24] <rjharrison> Tues morning actuall
[18:24] <rjharrison> y
[18:24] <rjharrison> XYL bit slow in posting
[18:26] <G8KHW> np
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[20:47] <rjharrison> ping josepharmbruster
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[21:44] <Xenion> Gute Nacht / Good Night - sleep well !! :-)
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[22:29] <Laurenceb> hello
[22:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.spacex.com/updates.php <<--- omg
[22:32] Action: Laurenceb can only imagine a huge explosive fireball looking at that
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[22:56] <jcoxon> evening all
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[23:03] <rjharrison> Evening james
[23:04] <rjharrison> jcoxon even
[23:04] <rjharrison> You made it back
[23:04] <rjharrison> I'm about to get off
[23:04] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:04] <jcoxon> indeed i have returned
[23:04] <rjharrison> Will be testing the tracker again into work
[23:04] <jcoxon> doubt i've done enough work but there is a limit to how much someone can shout at you so i'll survive :-p
[23:05] <jcoxon> good good
[23:05] <jcoxon> you still using the python client?
[23:05] <rjharrison> Typically I live at 53.5 -1.5 so I have to go .5degree to get into the dp problem again
[23:05] <rjharrison> What are the chances of that
[23:06] <rjharrison> 53.655427,-1.670173
[23:06] <rjharrison> to be precise
[23:07] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:07] <rjharrison> I want a real live test so I'm going to get back into the zones just to make sure
[23:08] <jcoxon> so any plans for icarus III?
[23:08] <rjharrison> There is a load of diffence in the NEMA from the LASSSEN SKII and IQ
[23:08] <rjharrison> Mainly in DP of accuracy
[23:08] <jcoxon> wow
[23:09] <rjharrison> SKII as 1 dp less accuracy on lat and long but +1 on knots
[23:09] <rjharrison> IQ is only to .X in knots
[23:09] <rjharrison> Pain in the ares for code portability
[23:09] <jcoxon> defintiely document your findings
[23:09] <jcoxon> will be helpful for future work
[23:10] <rjharrison> But simply code for SKII will not work on IQ without taking this into consideration
[23:10] <rjharrison> put
[23:11] <rjharrison> Nobody should use the SKII due to cost
[23:11] <rjharrison> 40 quid vs the 22 for the IQ
[23:11] <rjharrison> +5v vs 3.3v
[23:12] <rjharrison> I needs to spend sometime documenting everything and writing up the launch from the other day
[23:12] <rjharrison> right I'm off to bed thanks for the testing earlier on
[23:12] <rjharrison> Looking forward to the next launch
[23:13] <rjharrison> come on CUSF et al
[23:19] <jcoxon> :-)
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[23:24] <rjharrison> ni natrium42
[23:24] <rjharrison> Just reading the logs from m launch
[23:24] <rjharrison> my
[23:25] <natrium42> hey
[23:25] <natrium42> i haven't worked at the tracker lately because of some other work i have to do
[23:25] <natrium42> but should have some time this week
[23:26] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: use TSIP
[23:26] <Laurenceb> then you get 64 bit floating point accuracy
[23:30] <rjharrison> Is that right
[23:30] <rjharrison> I might do at some point
[23:30] <Laurenceb> nk so
[23:30] <Laurenceb> but avr libc only supports 32 bit floats
[23:30] <Laurenceb> still, thats enough for a few meters resolution
[23:30] <rjharrison> Can't say I'm too bothered now I have 99% nmea working
[23:30] <Laurenceb> bbl
[23:30] <rjharrison> Laurenceb cook
[23:30] <rjharrison> Cool
[23:30] <Laurenceb> theres code on the wiki
[23:30] <rjharrison> hehe
[23:31] <rjharrison> Yep I should have used it
[23:31] <rjharrison> hey ho
[23:32] <rjharrison> natrium42 re the tracker one thing that would be cool would be the ability to click on the chase car or the baloon and get the map to keep centering on the latest coord. Would have to have a tick box in the current info box
[23:32] <rjharrison> At the moment I risk life and limb to adjust the map whilst driveing to show the current
[23:33] <natrium42> good idea
[23:33] <rjharrison> ps you are going to love the lister for the next launch
[23:33] <natrium42> :)
[23:33] <natrium42> when do you plan to launch?
[23:33] <rjharrison> Me personally next w/e if the weather is good
[23:33] <rjharrison> or the first
[23:34] <jcoxon> hehe, according to wikipedia if we get above 50km then the amateur licence doesn't apply
[23:34] <rjharrison> 1-Feb
[23:34] <jcoxon> "The ITU regions apply for stations operating within 50 kilometres (31 mi) of the Earth's surface. Separate international agreements coordinate band use for amateur satellite and space operation."
[23:34] <rjharrison> lol
[23:34] <rjharrison> zp
[23:35] <rjharrison> I can't do the w/e of the 25th on kid duty
[23:35] <rjharrison> jcoxon any idea when you may launch next?
[23:35] <jcoxon> oh - i have no idea
[23:36] <rjharrison> natrium42 ?
[23:36] <jcoxon> haven't actually powered on peg VI for quite a while
[23:36] <rjharrison> Another sstv has got to be in the offering
[23:36] <jcoxon> of course
[23:36] <natrium42> rjharrison, after 18th
[23:36] <rjharrison> I'm all set for reception now
[23:37] <jcoxon> i was thinking of borrowing your rtty code, wack it on the arduino + radiometrix
[23:37] <rjharrison> sure
[23:37] <jcoxon> and then transmit rtty down one channel
[23:37] <jcoxon> and sstv on another freq
[23:37] <rjharrison> I did that today
[23:37] <jcoxon> did what?
[23:37] <rjharrison> I sent 2x rtty on 2 sets of frequencies
[23:38] <natrium42> rjharrison, should have some live pictures on my next launch
[23:38] <jcoxon> oh right
[23:38] <rjharrison> Using two radiomerix
[23:38] <natrium42> rjharrison, i would need the new tracker by then :)
[23:38] <jcoxon> rjharrison, will have to see, but it won't be for at least 2 months
[23:38] <rjharrison> the two rtty's were out by 800hz
[23:38] <rjharrison> and i could just jump between each of them
[23:39] <rjharrison> 4 lins on the waterfall
[23:39] <rjharrison> lines
[23:39] <jcoxon> rjharrison, oh i was thinking .075 and .650
[23:39] <rjharrison> Probably best
[23:39] <rjharrison> I'm bidding on an old 817 atm
[23:39] <rjharrison> not an nd
[23:39] <jcoxon> why?
[23:39] <rjharrison> Just on to have in the boot
[23:39] <rjharrison> one
[23:40] <jcoxon> okay :-)
[23:40] <rjharrison> Be great for listening in on two freq at the same tie
[23:40] <rjharrison> time
[23:40] <jcoxon> well the plan is that the tracker can pretty much take care of the rtty
[23:41] <jcoxon> while i can focus on the sstv
[23:41] <rjharrison> Sounds good
[23:41] <rjharrison> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&item=190278555636
[23:41] <rjharrison> Been out bid
[23:41] <rjharrison> It's gettting a bit pricy now
[23:42] <jcoxon> right, i'm off to bed
[23:42] <jcoxon> night all
[23:42] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-158-31-172.range86-158.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:43] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc:
[23:46] <rjharrison> I'm off too
[23:46] <rjharrison> nights all
[23:47] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc:
[00:00] --- Mon Jan 12 2009