highaltitude.log.20090110

[00:03] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: please, dont
[00:04] <Laurenceb> akawaka: is that you?
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[00:23] <natrium42> celestron dob?
[00:27] <akawaka> orion, skyquest xt8
[00:27] <akawaka> dob
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[00:35] <rjharrison> natrium42
[00:35] <rjharrison> wife in bed
[00:35] <rjharrison> hows it going
[00:35] <rjharrison> have you been inspired but the abount of requests for v 2
[00:35] <rjharrison> or are you over whelmed
[00:37] <rjharrison> bed time
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[01:26] <josepharmbruster> anyone around?
[01:27] <josepharmbruster> im ready to dish out and create my first high alt balloon, looking for some advice :-)
[01:28] <akawaka> cool!
[01:28] <akawaka> where are you?
[01:28] <josepharmbruster> hey, near orlando florida
[01:29] <josepharmbruster> so hear me out, there are only a few things i'd like to do
[01:29] <akawaka> go ahead
[01:30] <josepharmbruster> a) monitor telemetry data during the flight lat/lon/el.. etc.. i already own a gps unit
[01:30] <josepharmbruster> b) take photos, and lots of em :-)
[01:31] <josepharmbruster> here's a little history
[01:31] <josepharmbruster> about three days ago, i had a dream that i sent a balloon up with a video camera :-)... i woke up, told my wife i was going to do it.. she called me crazy
[01:32] <josepharmbruster> i've been doing some research around the web, found cygnus page.. and that really inspired me
[01:32] <akawaka> here is the very simplest balloon i can think of
[01:33] <josepharmbruster> i browsed the balloons on kaymont and parachutes from the rocket man
[01:33] <akawaka> get a ham radio license, buy an aprs unit like a microtrak, and take photos with a canon elph camera
[01:33] <josepharmbruster> ok, i'm all ears :-)
[01:34] <akawaka> there is a software hack for the ELPHs that allows you to script and program the cameras, makes it very simple to send it up to take pictures
[01:34] <josepharmbruster> which microtrak? looking here: http://www.byonics.com/microtrak/
[01:34] <akawaka> http://www.boredgamedeveloper.com/high_altitude/index.php/1_-_Pong
[01:34] <akawaka> that was my attempt last year
[01:35] <josepharmbruster> man, awesome
[01:35] <akawaka> the 300 would be finde
[01:35] <akawaka> the 8000 is what we used
[01:36] <akawaka> natrium42 had a great launch: http://natrium42.com/halo/flight2/
[01:37] <josepharmbruster> so, what does the base-station look like when you use the 8000?
[01:37] <akawaka> well, there are a lot of aprs repeaters around, here in california anyway, you could check what it is like in florida
[01:38] <akawaka> so at the very basic level you could just track it online, cos the repeaters talk to each other and some talk to the internet
[01:38] <josepharmbruster> herm. interesting, i was considering one of these units
[01:38] <josepharmbruster> with an accompanying ground unit http://www.adhocelectronics.com/Products/RF-Field-Modem-XT
[01:38] <josepharmbruster> a little more pricey though...
[01:39] <akawaka> for our ground station we just had a ham radio hooked up to a computer
[01:39] <josepharmbruster> ah, i'm a coder by day, pretty clueless when it comes to radio...
[01:41] <josepharmbruster> i liked that field modem, since it uses a few batteries... seemed like a simple solution, what do you think?
[01:43] <josepharmbruster> hah, man, is that a styrafoam cooler?
[01:44] <natrium42> josepharmbruster, so you have a ham license?
[01:44] <natrium42> so=do
[01:44] <josepharmbruster> newp. but i purchased the technicians manual recently and have been going through it
[01:45] <josepharmbruster> want to take the exam soon
[01:45] <natrium42> oh, great
[01:45] <josepharmbruster> i don't have any radios, never used any really... except cb when i was younger
[01:45] <josepharmbruster> natrium42: did you check out the link to the field modem?
[01:46] Action: natrium42 looks
[01:46] <natrium42> aah, i used that xtend module on my flight
[01:46] <josepharmbruster> REALLY !?
[01:46] <natrium42> yep
[01:46] <josepharmbruster> how'd it work ou!?
[01:46] <josepharmbruster> i was going to use that with the XTend RF Modems on the ground...
[01:46] <natrium42> well, the problem was that i had an *omnidirectional* antenna on the ground
[01:46] <natrium42> so i lost contact at 6km up, 12km downrange
[01:47] <natrium42> i think with a directional yagi antenna you would be good
[01:47] <josepharmbruster> is the antennae that it comes with in the accessory kit omni?
[01:47] <natrium42> yeah, but it's not high gain
[01:47] <natrium42> i used a high gain omni
[01:47] <natrium42> and it was not enough
[01:47] <josepharmbruster> how far out did you regain contact with it?
[01:48] <natrium42> 6km altitude, 12km downrange
[01:48] <josepharmbruster> ok, that's not soo bad i guess...
[01:48] <josepharmbruster> now, in the air, were you running @ 500mw?
[01:48] <natrium42> yeah, i should really do a testflight to test yagi antenna
[01:48] <natrium42> 1W
[01:49] <josepharmbruster> how long do the batteries last like that? Receiving and T, or just T
[01:49] <josepharmbruster> i couldn't make a guess at the battery life for the thing....
[01:49] <natrium42> it depends how many batterys you use :)
[01:49] <natrium42> i think my payload would have lasted at least 5 hours
[01:49] <josepharmbruster> so, you used more than the couple double a's you can put inside :-) ?
[01:50] <natrium42> btw, you should use lithium batteries
[01:50] <josepharmbruster> herm. i was reading about that on cyrus' site... yessum
[01:50] <natrium42> energizer photo lithiums are popular, since they can take the low temperatures
[01:50] Action: josepharmbruster has LOTS to learn
[01:50] <natrium42> :)
[01:50] <josepharmbruster> good tip ! thanks
[01:50] <natrium42> it's a lot of fun
[01:50] <josepharmbruster> so, overall would you recommend the unit?
[01:51] <natrium42> i would use a cell phone as a backup if you go with it
[01:51] <natrium42> since i didn't run the yagi test yet
[01:51] <josepharmbruster> ok. good idea. ok, so on to my most serious question
[01:51] <josepharmbruster> how the heck do you handle the water issue ?!?
[01:51] <josepharmbruster> i'm surrounded here in florida
[01:51] <josepharmbruster> and i can't seal my payload
[01:52] <natrium42> there is software to predict flight trajectory
[01:52] <josepharmbruster> so, are there any good answers?
[01:52] <natrium42> you don't launch on a day where you land in water :)
[01:52] <natrium42> one sec, i will link you
[01:52] <josepharmbruster> hehe, ok ;-)
[01:52] <josepharmbruster> do you have google earth?
[01:52] <natrium42> yes
[01:52] <natrium42> it generates a kml for google earth, actually
[01:53] <natrium42> http://weather.uwyo.edu/polar/balloon_traj.html
[01:53] <josepharmbruster> sweet :-) i work in GIS... love this stuff
[01:53] <natrium42> :)
[01:53] <josepharmbruster> ok check it out
[01:54] <josepharmbruster> i live near here: 28°36'25.60"N 81°12'35.73"W
[01:54] <natrium42> it's usually pretty good with the predictions
[01:54] <natrium42> but you shouldn't count that it's exactly right
[01:54] <natrium42> ok, convert that to decimal degrees
[01:54] <josepharmbruster> ok, i'll probably do some math based on what i find out from the nws and guestimate
[01:55] <josepharmbruster> 28.604478 -81.210024
[01:56] <natrium42> okay
[01:56] <natrium42> so GFS model time is 18Z (18 hours zulu) which is the most recent
[01:57] <natrium42> i.e. that's 1pm eastern time
[01:57] <josepharmbruster> that's roughly twenty miles from the intercoastal on the east coast
[01:57] <josepharmbruster> southwest is quite a bit of swamp land and gators
[01:57] <natrium42> so if you were to launch tomorrow at 1pm, you can select 24h forecast
[01:57] <josepharmbruster> sorry.. southeast
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[01:58] <natrium42> let's see what we get
[01:58] <natrium42> :)
[01:59] <josepharmbruster> i said 30500m :-)
[01:59] <josepharmbruster> going for the big 100k hehe
[01:59] <natrium42> hehe
[01:59] <josepharmbruster> the server is too busy... doh !
[02:00] <josepharmbruster> i can't believe this server could be too busy for this... hehe
[02:00] <natrium42> it has it's times :S
[02:01] <natrium42> eventually we will add our own forecaster
[02:03] <josepharmbruster> so, are there any ways to prepare for a water encounter?
[02:04] <natrium42> saltwater is really bad to electronics
[02:04] <josepharmbruster> yeah
[02:04] <natrium42> so you have to waterproof it well
[02:04] <josepharmbruster> if i put hardware in this thing, i have two rules
[02:04] <josepharmbruster> 1) it can't land on anyones head (too hard)
[02:04] <josepharmbruster> 2) it has to float
[02:04] <natrium42> lol, trajectory is right above KSC
[02:05] <natrium42> and lands in water, of course
[02:05] <josepharmbruster> oh geez.
[02:05] <natrium42> i am surrounded by the great lakes, so i have to travel 100km west to launch :P
[02:06] <josepharmbruster> man, i may have to travel north... getting out of florida is ridiculous.
[02:06] <natrium42> north wouldn't help you
[02:06] <natrium42> jet stream is generally west to east
[02:06] <josepharmbruster> good lord
[02:06] <josepharmbruster> that trajectory is crap
[02:06] <josepharmbruster> hahahahahahah oh man
[02:07] <natrium42> you can overfill the balloon for high ascent rate and choose a day where jet stream is slow
[02:07] <natrium42> but you are very close to water....
[02:08] <josepharmbruster> oh man, i'm still laughing at the trajectory
[02:08] <natrium42> :D
[02:08] <natrium42> got a boat? :P
[02:08] <josepharmbruster> my buddy has on on the west coast :-(
[02:08] <josepharmbruster> newp.
[02:09] <josepharmbruster> ok, so, i could go for lower alt, let me see what the trajectory calculator says
[02:09] <natrium42> the jet stream looks pretty fast for tomorrow
[02:09] <natrium42> not sure if it's usual for florida
[02:10] <natrium42> it's faster in winter anyway
[02:10] <josepharmbruster> check this out: http://squall.sfsu.edu/scripts/nhemjetstream_model.html
[02:11] <josepharmbruster> that's one hacky applet.... but, it works
[02:13] <josepharmbruster> i may have luck, launching from the west coast of FL... let me pick a spot
[02:13] <natrium42> maybe your payload should be a small GPS controlled boat
[02:13] <natrium42> :P
[02:13] <natrium42> that would be very cool, actually
[02:13] <josepharmbruster> Haha, actually, i was thinking of rigging up a self-inflatible raft
[02:13] <josepharmbruster> when it drops below n hundred meters... it would fill up :-)
[02:14] <josepharmbruster> too much weight :-(
[02:14] <natrium42> i would start simple for the first mission
[02:15] <natrium42> it will be a blast anyway
[02:15] <natrium42> and once you have the basics, you can do something more advanced
[02:16] <josepharmbruster> definitely
[02:16] <josepharmbruster> one sec, choosing a more westwardly launch site :-)
[02:19] <josepharmbruster> gar
[02:19] <josepharmbruster> 28.602296 -81.722700 no better
[02:19] <josepharmbruster> ok, on to the west coast :-)
[02:19] <josepharmbruster> thinking about it
[02:19] <josepharmbruster> i have a unique circumstance
[02:19] <josepharmbruster> maybe... where i can cross the entire width of florida... how cool would that be!
[02:20] <josepharmbruster> do you know of any other ballooners in florida ?
[02:20] <natrium42> hey, you have more land to work with than me --> http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Kitchener,+ON,+Canada&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=41.516812,57.480469&ie=UTF8&ll=42.867912,-80.69458&spn=5.869272,7.185059&z=7
[02:21] <natrium42> don't know anybody in floriday, sorry
[02:21] <natrium42> *florida
[02:21] <josepharmbruster> i'd have to look at the trajectories to see the reality of it :-) hehe
[02:22] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/halo/flight2/halo2-videos.kmz
[02:22] <josepharmbruster> gosh man.. it's bad for me..
[02:22] <josepharmbruster> because do go due-west..
[02:22] <josepharmbruster> i have to take a highway waaay south...
[02:22] <josepharmbruster> or waaaay north
[02:22] <josepharmbruster> what a mess
[02:23] <josepharmbruster> and the land is like a mine-field of lakes
[02:23] <josepharmbruster> 28.575812° -81.567914° go there and zoom out to around 57.61km to see what i mean :-)
[02:24] <natrium42> haha, wow
[02:24] <josepharmbruster> so, i need to push on.. more west i go :-)
[02:25] <natrium42> near tampa doesn't look too bad
[02:25] <josepharmbruster> man, this is soo interesting
[02:26] <josepharmbruster> HAHA, impact in the intercoastal from: 28.505897 -82.143434
[02:27] <josepharmbruster> actually, it's looking like i can make it
[02:27] <natrium42> yah, just choose a better day than tomorrow
[02:29] <josepharmbruster> releasing one of these things the first time has to be the biggest rush
[02:30] <josepharmbruster> check it out: 28.541105 -82.444136
[02:46] <natrium42> you plan to launch from there?
[02:47] <josepharmbruster> natrium, no just learned about the site... have to do quite a bit more research
[02:47] <natrium42> kk
[02:47] <josepharmbruster> why do you ask ? :-)
[02:48] <natrium42> it's a road :)
[02:49] <josepharmbruster> so, did you guys send up a lappy ?
[02:50] <natrium42> me? no
[02:50] <natrium42> one guy here did, but he is offline atm
[02:51] <josepharmbruster> ah, ooops, got you two confused...
[02:51] <natrium42> you don't need anything more powerful than a microcontroller
[02:51] <natrium42> unless you plan to do something very fancy ;)
[02:53] <josepharmbruster> so, it appears a styrafoam cooler can cut it
[02:54] <josepharmbruster> do you have experience with taking photos / videos, etc..?
[02:55] <natrium42> yep
[02:55] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/halo/flight2 is my site
[02:55] <natrium42> if you're interested
[02:55] <josepharmbruster> how do you handle fogging of lenses / etc... did you have to treat them?
[02:55] <josepharmbruster> definitely, i'm reading like a mad man
[02:55] <josepharmbruster> and will be all weekend
[02:55] <natrium42> :D
[02:55] <natrium42> i only had fogging problem when descending
[02:55] <natrium42> as you go from cold -> hot quickly, so there is condensate
[02:56] <josepharmbruster> anti-fogs are a no-help
[02:56] <natrium42> hmm, would be a nice test
[02:56] <josepharmbruster> i remember using fogx back in high school for certain things..
[02:57] <josepharmbruster> it use to work great
[02:57] <natrium42> btw, i used the XTend modem to downlink pictures in-flight for my 1st launch --> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:halo_flight1
[02:57] <josepharmbruster> gosh.. ok, i'm going to buy the damn thing
[02:57] <josepharmbruster> hah
[02:57] <natrium42> :)
[02:57] <josepharmbruster> i spoke to two engineers on the phone today
[02:57] <natrium42> just make sure to get a yagi!
[02:57] <josepharmbruster> link?
[02:57] <natrium42> for yagi?
[02:58] <josepharmbruster> yessum
[02:58] <josepharmbruster> those shots are great !
[02:58] <natrium42> thx
[02:59] <natrium42> just google 900MHz yagi
[02:59] <natrium42> perhaps your local amateur radio store would have it
[02:59] <josepharmbruster> now, this is for the base-station, correct?
[02:59] <natrium42> yeah
[02:59] <natrium42> on the payload you can use the antenna they give you with the module
[02:59] <josepharmbruster> excellent
[02:59] <natrium42> it's 1/2 wave whip, i believe
[03:00] <josepharmbruster> did you also use the XTend-PKG 900 MHz ?
[03:00] <natrium42> i got the dev kit from the manufacturer directly
[03:01] <natrium42> it had two modules and two boards with rs232
[03:01] <natrium42> plus some other goodies like cables etc
[03:01] <josepharmbruster> ok, sounds similar to what i had asked about, cool :-)
[03:02] <josepharmbruster> how were your interactions with the FAA ?
[03:02] <josepharmbruster> i printed out the regulations on air balloons today
[03:03] <natrium42> canadian regulations are a bit different
[03:03] <natrium42> they limit us by volume of the balloon, not weight of the payload as they do with you
[03:03] <natrium42> you have it better :P
[03:06] <josepharmbruster> so, where did you order your balloon / parachute from ?
[03:06] <josepharmbruster> balloons / parachutes :-)
[03:07] <natrium42> kaymont
[03:07] <natrium42> parachute was some military surplus drogue chute
[03:07] <natrium42> everybody uses kaymont balloons here
[03:08] <natrium42> i tried with a surplus military balloon once, but this is what happened --> http://natrium42.com/gallery2/v/balloon/setup/deformed-balloon.jpg.html
[03:11] <natrium42> bbl
[03:33] <josepharmbruster> i'll bbl as well
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[10:01] <gordonjcp> natrium42: uv rot?
[10:01] <gordonjcp> or some similar deterioration?
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[11:56] <rharrison_eee> any one on here have an eee
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[14:38] <jcoxon> afternoon all
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[16:22] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[16:55] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[16:58] <edmoore> all well with you?
[16:58] <jcoxon> indeed
[16:58] <jcoxon> cold
[16:58] <edmoore> same
[16:58] <jcoxon> back in cam?
[16:58] <edmoore> it looked like Narnia in west sussex this morning
[16:58] <edmoore> yep, back a coupla hours
[17:00] <jcoxon> cool
[17:00] <jcoxon> guess no launch tomorrow
[17:00] <edmoore> nope
[17:00] <edmoore> not from us anyway
[17:01] <gordonjcp> I wish it would snow here
[17:01] <gordonjcp> it's just horizontal sleet
[17:02] <edmoore> I sympathise
[17:02] <edmoore> it's just still coldness here
[17:14] <jcoxon> edmoore, sensible move not launching
[17:14] <jcoxon> right i'll bbl
[17:14] <edmoore> wind?
[17:15] <edmoore> it i actually pretty unpleasantly windy
[17:15] <edmoore> looking at wundergound
[17:19] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[17:20] <rjharrison> jcoxon ping
[17:20] <rjharrison> edmore found the 13 things
[17:20] <edmoore> rjharrison: cool
[17:20] <edmoore> i only did a few of them
[17:20] <rjharrison> edmoore BTW fldigi needs to be upgraded to the latest version
[17:20] <rjharrison> me too
[17:21] <edmoore> rjharrison: ok
[17:21] <rjharrison> Infact just the first one re repos
[17:21] <edmoore> when it gets onto the repo i can just apt-get update
[17:21] <rjharrison> I'm going to compile the latest verson on the eee
[17:21] <rjharrison> I'll send you the result if you like
[17:21] <edmoore> if it works for you, I might give it a go
[17:22] <edmoore> yeah please
[17:22] <rjharrison> humm your processor the same?
[17:22] <rjharrison> 901
[17:22] <rjharrison> I'm sure it is
[17:22] <rjharrison> is jcoxon arround
[17:22] <rjharrison> or qrt
[17:22] <edmoore> 1.6ghx atom, yep
[17:22] <edmoore> he just announced he'd bbl
[17:22] <rjharrison> ok
[17:23] <edmoore> winds tomorrow have picked up
[17:23] <rjharrison> :(
[17:23] <rjharrison> Cross channel
[17:23] <edmoore> borderline
[17:23] <rjharrison> sorry about last night bit pissed
[17:23] <rjharrison> At least i didn't post the pics :)
[17:23] <edmoore> actually if you launch in the afternoon, you'd get across pretty happily
[17:23] <edmoore> enough :p
[17:25] <rjharrison> so basically no launch tomorrow
[17:25] <rjharrison> I'm glad the atmega has been so sucessull
[17:25] <rjharrison> It's nice having a small LP board to play with
[17:26] <rjharrison> I'm thinking about putting a baro on too
[17:27] <edmoore> baro is good
[17:27] <edmoore> if you can find one that works all the way up, shout
[17:28] <edmoore> most seem to stop at about 20-30kPa
[17:28] <rjharrison> Humm sf sensor $25 breakoput $54
[17:28] <rjharrison> ouch
[17:28] <edmoore> that's why you bought a decent soldering iron :p
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[17:29] <rjharrison> is it smt
[17:29] <rjharrison> surface mount
[17:30] <edmoore> yeah
[17:30] <edmoore> it is smt, yup
[17:30] <edmoore> can always dead-big
[17:30] <edmoore> dead-bug
[17:31] <rjharrison> humm stops at 30kpa
[17:31] <rjharrison> we need better than that
[17:31] <edmoore> like i say
[17:31] <rjharrison> what is the air pressure at 35k ~
[17:32] <edmoore> it's not just for fun though - it's difficult to get a cheap sensor to do atmospheric that also gives meaningful results in such low pressures
[17:32] <edmoore> air is 100kpa
[17:32] <rjharrison> at sea level
[17:32] <edmoore> that was technically a disastrously ill-defined thing to say, sorry
[17:32] <edmoore> mean sea level pressure is 101kpa
[17:32] <rjharrison> hehe
[17:32] <rjharrison> ok
[17:32] <rjharrison> Have to go to shops
[17:33] <rjharrison> guests tonigh
[17:33] <rjharrison> tonight
[17:33] <rjharrison> bbl
[17:33] <edmoore> g'luck
[17:33] <edmoore> am going to go for a few drinks
[17:33] <edmoore> in college - too cold to be out in town!
[17:41] josepharmbruster (n=josephar@247.119.207.68.cfl.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:41] <edmoore> hi josepharmbruster
[17:41] <josepharmbruster> senor !
[17:41] <josepharmbruster> how goes it?
[17:41] <edmoore> very well thank you. and you?
[17:42] <josepharmbruster> i'm back from errands... back to glaring at the predicted trajectories...
[17:42] <josepharmbruster> hehe
[17:43] <edmoore> have you been on this channel before?
[17:43] <josepharmbruster> this is my second time. last night was my first
[17:43] <josepharmbruster> i'm in GMT-5
[17:43] <josepharmbruster> near orlando florida
[17:43] <edmoore> ah right, I missed you last night. welcome from me, anyway!
[17:44] <edmoore> looking to launch/have launched before?
[17:44] <josepharmbruster> want the rundown on my project? or were you able to read my description from last night?
[17:44] <edmoore> if it's quick enough to type, I'd love to hear it
[17:45] <edmoore> if you'd prefer I'll hunt down the log :)
[17:45] <josepharmbruster> bah, i can type fast :-)
[17:45] <josepharmbruster> so, the other night i had this dream that i launched a high altitude balloon... i told my wife about it.. she called me crazy
[17:45] <josepharmbruster> so i have decided to do it
[17:45] <josepharmbruster> i started to narrow down my goals
[17:46] <josepharmbruster> i'm still in brainstorming mode though.. but the general idea is this:
[17:46] <josepharmbruster> - record telemetry data, lat/lon/el... maybe temp / pressure as well
[17:46] <josepharmbruster> - take aerial photos and perhaps video
[17:46] <josepharmbruster> that's about all i want to do
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> josepharmbruster: also consider other payloads. A small cow, for example.
[17:47] <josepharmbruster> hahahaha, or my 2 year old golden retriever: :-)
[17:47] <edmoore> well taht sounds perfect
[17:47] <josepharmbruster> yeah.. so, i think the goal is pretty simple
[17:47] <josepharmbruster> the major issue is this
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> Train it to hang-glide.
[17:47] <josepharmbruster> water
[17:47] <edmoore> rjharrison has recently blasted through the learning curve and done a similar thing
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> wwater is bad.
[17:47] <josepharmbruster> i'm in florida
[17:47] <josepharmbruster> and surrounded
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> There are several optioons.
[17:47] <josepharmbruster> lots of lakes
[17:47] <edmoore> josepharmbruster: it can be a curve, yes
[17:47] <edmoore> but also you're perfectly placed to try some really fun stuff
[17:48] <edmoore> like transatlantic
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> Active measures - fly back guided parachute
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> Semi-active - cut-down when you're predicted to still be over land
[17:48] <josepharmbruster> herm. these are good ideas
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> passive - only inflate the balloon so that it will burst over land
[17:49] <josepharmbruster> here's a question i'm interested in
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> the second has the 'commanded' and the autonomous variants. Where the water map is onboard or offboard
[17:49] <edmoore> josepharmbruster: we'd had decent success with just telling the flight computer to cut down if it reaches a given radio from some point
[17:49] <josepharmbruster> the balloons from kaymont are use-once
[17:49] <edmoore> so in our case, just as an example, we used to say 'cut down' if you get more than 60km from cambridge, UK
[17:49] <josepharmbruster> has anyone experimented with a device that would release the balloons air pressure?
[17:49] <edmoore> a chap called Bill Brown has
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> josepharmbruster: you mean re-use?
[17:49] <josepharmbruster> yeahy
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> josepharmbruster: doesn't practically work.
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> josepharmbruster: they are _very_ fragile
[17:50] <edmoore> josepharmbruster: you can re-use, however the UV light from the sun really degraes the latex
[17:50] <edmoore> probably wouldn't get more than two flights out of it
[17:50] <josepharmbruster> ahh
[17:50] <josepharmbruster> ok, so not worth the risk of the second flight... makes sense
[17:50] <edmoore> there's a tonne more UV above the ozone, where the baloons go
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> And it's UVA
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> which is nastier than the stuff we get down here.
[17:50] <josepharmbruster> ok, so with respects to hardware... let me share what my current plans are
[17:51] <josepharmbruster> i have a PC104 board, amd-geode... somehow i'd have to power this thing. i have a lassen dr+gps unit (really good quality unit.. weighs a bit though)
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> josepharmbruster: generally overkill
[17:52] <josepharmbruster> ok, this is just in my arsenal
[17:52] <edmoore> PC104 is very heavy metal to meet the spec of a good basic balloon flight, though it will give you time to grow
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> josepharmbruster: that's way more CPU than you need. Many people have flown with 8 bit CPUs only.
[17:52] <josepharmbruster> i have a few 8051's lying around
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> josepharmbruster: all you need to do is to read from the GPS, send to the transmitter, cut down the balloon.
[17:52] <josepharmbruster> and an atmega16
[17:52] <josepharmbruster> i could use those
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> 8051 is _so_ old-hat.
[17:52] <josepharmbruster> but i'd like to do some more serious data collection, if i'm going to do this :-)
[17:52] Action: SpeedEvil notes that several billion keyboards can't be wrong tho.
[17:52] <josepharmbruster> maybe hook up some other sensors
[17:52] <josepharmbruster> hahahahah
[17:53] <edmoore> let me show you what rjharrison just got the uk altitude record with - http://robertharrison.org/images/icarus2/IMG_0370.JPG
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> josepharmbruster: camera sensors are better done usually with just external cameras. Triggered by various means.
[17:53] <edmoore> it's a $4 avr, a lassen iq, and $10 434mhx radio
[17:53] <josepharmbruster> what did his base station look like?
[17:54] <edmoore> we (cusapceflight.co.uk) have our own flight computer which is ARM based
[17:54] <edmoore> josepharmbruster: a yaesu ft-817 I beleive
[17:54] <edmoore> a great little rig
[17:54] <josepharmbruster> i was reading through the FAA regulations... and it appears i'm going to need at least two communications means
[17:54] <edmoore> very sensitive on the UHF band too
[17:55] <edmoore> as far as i know from other US ballooning groups, they survive with just the one
[17:55] <edmoore> but don't quote me on that
[17:55] <edmoore> I regret I need to go and eat - will probably be around later - josepharmbruster : I look forward to seeing you about!
[17:55] <josepharmbruster> if you have contact info of anyone that has done this in the US, send them my email address please
[17:55] <edmoore> josepharmbruster: eoss.org
[17:55] <edmoore> kd7lmo.net
[17:55] <josepharmbruster> thanks much ! :-)
[17:56] <edmoore> a couple of hours reading those two sites should wet your appetite :)
[17:56] <edmoore> and they've got good links too
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> Also.
[17:56] <edmoore> right, I'll be back later
[17:56] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> diydrones.com may be relevant
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> ebay.com is always good, as is sparkfun.com
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[17:56] <SpeedEvil> stmcircle.org too
[17:57] <josepharmbruster> were you around last njight when i was asking about radio modems?
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> don't think so
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> or maybe I was.
[17:58] Action: SpeedEvil was possibly stuck in a box in an indeterminate state at the time.
[17:58] <josepharmbruster> well, i'm thinking of using the adhoc field modem XT
[17:58] <josepharmbruster> rs232 in the air
[17:59] <josepharmbruster> and on the ground, a XTend-PKG 900 MHz
[17:59] <josepharmbruster> it's pricey.. but i'm no radio guru (still reading through technicians manual)
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> Typically these modems are _much_ deafer than a proper scanner.
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> with rtty software
[18:00] <josepharmbruster> herm. natrium42 said he had success with one, but had to use a yagi antenna on the ground
[18:00] <josepharmbruster> what type of com system do you recommend?
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> I haven't actually launched anything.
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> However.
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> Many on here have been using FM transmitters on 433MHz, with about 10mW power.
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> And getting >>100 miles range.
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> from a scanner on the bottom
[18:01] <josepharmbruster> wow
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> at 50bps IIRC
[18:03] <josepharmbruster> http://www.adhocelectronics.com/Products/RF-Field-Modem-XT
[18:03] <josepharmbruster> take a look at that
[18:03] Action: SpeedEvil wonders why cut and paste is failing.
[18:04] Action: josepharmbruster wife is summoning him for lunch
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> wave
[18:04] <josepharmbruster> i'll be back in about 10
[18:04] <josepharmbruster> feel free to PM me, or message me on here.. i'll be back in a few
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> I'm prolly leaving.
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> before
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> 'up to 30 miles' that's kind of light
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> consider that you've got an altitude of maybe 15-20 miles
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[18:46] <rjharrison> josepharmbruster Hello
[18:46] <rjharrison> Looks like you fancy having a go
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[19:10] <edmoore|away> back
[19:10] Nick change: edmoore|away -> edmoore
[19:20] <natrium42> hi edmoore
[19:20] <natrium42> no bill brown launch today :S
[19:20] <natrium42> i was looking forward to listen in
[19:20] <edmoore> is there a list i should be subscribed to to know this?
[19:20] <natrium42> it's moved to next weekend
[19:21] <natrium42> just check his site
[19:21] <edmoore> ok cool
[19:21] <akawaka> anyone know how difficult it is to interface with a telephone line
[19:21] <edmoore> i've noticed one thing
[19:21] <edmoore> i seem to have a visual memory for call signs
[19:22] <edmoore> not a phonetic one
[19:22] <edmoore> just seem to remember the shape of it printed
[19:22] <edmoore> odd
[19:22] <natrium42> i think i am the same
[19:23] <natrium42> btw, do you plan on getting a HF antenna setup?
[19:23] <akawaka> hf antennas seem like such a chore
[19:23] <natrium42> yes :/
[19:24] <edmoore> natrium42: i have been asking myself this q too
[19:24] <edmoore> there's this sad looking pl259 on the back
[19:24] <edmoore> which most of my rig is devoted to using
[19:24] <natrium42> indeed :)
[19:24] <edmoore> if we do trans, that will probs be enough motivation
[19:24] <edmoore> when*
[19:25] <natrium42> it's good that you corrected yourself!
[19:25] <natrium42> :P
[19:25] <edmoore> i'm not in any great hurry to start DXing though
[19:25] <akawaka> hah
[19:25] <edmoore> on that point I want to speak to laurenceb
[19:25] <akawaka> a simple non-permanent dipole might be all you need
[19:25] <edmoore> akawaka: yeah
[19:25] <akawaka> toss it over a tree
[19:25] <edmoore> i like them in principle
[19:25] <natrium42> bbl
[19:26] <edmoore> it's tough for me to do though from my student dorm
[19:26] <akawaka> tough to setup a mast too
[19:27] <akawaka> http://web.telia.com/~u85920178/antennas/balcant1.htm
[19:28] <akawaka> i have a hamstick but i haven't used it yet
[19:29] <edmoore> if i get desperate, there's the CUWS shack 2 mins down the road
[19:29] <edmoore> it kind of takes away the compunction
[19:30] <edmoore> they've got yagis on 10m masts and all the 'proper' stuff. I'm not going to be able to beat that myself, i doubt
[19:31] <akawaka> true
[19:32] <edmoore> still, I will eventually, I'm sure. plenty of projects to consume time first though :)
[19:36] <akawaka> i have a little more space now so i might get an antenna setup
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[19:47] <edmoore> hi Tigga
[19:47] <edmoore> are you back?
[19:47] <Tigga> aye - got back a few hours ago
[19:47] <edmoore> cool
[19:48] <Tigga> just finishing unpackage
[19:48] <Tigga> you back?
[19:48] <edmoore> yep
[19:48] <edmoore> just about unpacked
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[20:50] <josepharmbruster> rjharrison: hey, still here ?
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[23:17] <Laurenceb> hello
[23:18] <natrium42> ello
[23:19] Action: Laurenceb has just finished insulating the loft
[23:20] <Laurenceb> U<=0.15 for the whole roof now :P
[23:21] <Laurenceb> theres also a ducted fan from the bathroom and ducting from kitchen extractor hood going through vent tiles
[23:21] <natrium42> cool
[23:24] <Laurenceb> its interesting that you can increase the thermal resistivity by about 20% relative to plain fibreglass if you stick a few sheets of mylar in the middle
[23:24] <natrium42> do you have a thermal camera to check with?
[23:24] <Laurenceb> the whole 30M^2 cost less than £100
[23:24] <Laurenceb> hehe
[23:25] <Laurenceb> building regs dont go that far
[23:25] <Laurenceb> but it would be a cool experiment - look at the houses eithe side
[23:28] <natrium42> yeah
[23:29] <natrium42> those cams are damn expensive
[23:29] <Laurenceb> you can use a thermopile
[23:29] <natrium42> i was looking for one to use as a security camera
[23:29] <Laurenceb> and two servos
[23:29] <natrium42> and scanning mirror?
[23:29] <natrium42> ah
[23:29] <Laurenceb> no, scan the sensor
[23:29] <natrium42> hmm
[23:29] <natrium42> can i scan it fast enough to use as security camera?
[23:29] <Laurenceb> you use some funcky filtering techniques to get an image
[23:29] <natrium42> older thermal imagers used rotating prisms
[23:29] <Laurenceb> no, sev eral minutes per frame
[23:30] <Laurenceb> if you want high res
[23:30] <natrium42> would be a cool project
[23:30] <natrium42> the regular security cameras suck
[23:31] <natrium42> since they use infra red illumination
[23:31] <natrium42> so thieves can see it with their cellphones
[23:31] <natrium42> the proper way would be to use a bolometer array
[23:33] <natrium42> they are not harder to make than CCDs
[23:33] <Laurenceb> yeah, but you need fab equiptment
[23:33] <natrium42> well, my point is that they are not widely available :S
[23:34] <natrium42> and there are often export restrictions
[23:34] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:41] <Laurenceb> you need to deconvolve with a 1D time reponse function then 2D deconvolve with the point spread function for thermopiles
[23:46] <Laurenceb> but you need a shield around the field of view
[23:47] <Laurenceb> heatsunk to the thermopile
[23:47] <Laurenceb> otherwise the image will be screwed up by the periferal stuff
[23:49] <Laurenceb> I think this is why the same techniques didnt work for the nubble (well one reason)
[23:49] <Laurenceb> *hubble
[23:49] <Laurenceb> bbl
[00:00] --- Sun Jan 11 2009