highaltitude.log.20090108

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[11:03] <edmoore> Laurenceb: did you catch the blast docu?
[11:15] <Laurenceb> too busy
[11:15] <Laurenceb> may watch this evening
[11:31] <rjharrison_> Is it on again
[11:31] <rjharrison_> that was good hab porn to put it in ed terms
[11:31] <rjharrison_> edmoore Have updated my track
[11:32] <edmoore> when is it on again?
[11:32] <edmoore> rjharrison_: I agree, it was smashing
[11:32] <edmoore> rjharrison_: cool - ready to fly?
[11:32] <rjharrison_> http://www.robertharrison.org/tracker/
[11:33] <rjharrison_> This is the final fixed track with all bad data removed
[11:33] <rjharrison_> Been a busy morning at work!!!
[11:33] <edmoore> oh awesome
[11:33] <edmoore> good stuff
[11:33] <rjharrison_> Last data from steve ws at 3km
[11:34] <edmoore> what I think would be A Good Feature would be the option to just have the path and the latest update with a drawing pin
[11:34] <rjharrison_> and you can see not too far from the landing site
[11:34] <edmoore> rather than thousands of drawing pins
[11:34] <rjharrison_> Yep
[11:34] <rjharrison_> natrium42 one for you
[11:34] <rjharrison_> Though the pins are good if you wnat to see what is going on at any point
[11:35] <edmoore> a check box :)
[11:35] <edmoore> toggle between the two
[11:35] <edmoore> blimey, if you did have a camera, that'd be some pretty cool photos
[11:36] <rjharrison_> Yep don't tell me
[11:36] <rjharrison_> Would have got france too
[11:36] <rjharrison_> I can do the same next time :)
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[11:40] <rjharrison_> Opps closed the ha window
[11:41] <rjharrison_> Looking at the track it was a close call to staying in the uk
[11:43] <rjharrison_> edmoore we should send up two balloons using the first to test the jet streams
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[11:46] <edmoore> rjharrison_: i don't follow?
[11:47] <rjharrison_> Ie one to make sure that the jets are slow and another with the camera on. Unless James is relly good
[11:48] <edmoore> our prediction software performs well enough. we're quite happy.
[11:48] <edmoore> like I say, it has told us to park at x and look straight up in 2 minutes time, and when we did exactly that, we've seen it coming down exactly above us
[11:49] <edmoore> but i do think there's some value in sending up some part balloons just to see what conditions are like for the first few hundred meters
[11:49] <edmoore> as that can often be a bit of a suprise
[11:49] <rjharrison_> Snazzy I may have to get you to plug some data into that soon
[11:50] <rjharrison_> I do that each time
[11:50] <rjharrison_> The pary ballons
[11:50] <rjharrison_> party
[11:51] <edmoore> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[11:51] <edmoore> is here
[11:52] <rjharrison_> Cool
[11:52] <rjharrison_> Have fun and let me know what you do with it as mine needs an over haul
[11:52] <rjharrison_> ESP rtty software
[12:11] <edmoore> this xandros thing will, after a few mins of playing, have to get the boot
[12:18] <edmoore> fnoble: yeasu mic just arrived in the post from steve
[12:55] <edmoore> rjharrison_: have you got fldigi on your eeeeeee?
[13:07] <rjharrison_> no
[13:07] <rjharrison_> edmoore no
[13:07] <rjharrison_> let me know if you get it working
[13:17] <edmoore> rjharrison_: willdo
[13:17] <edmoore> i'll see if fnoble will share the masterpiece
[13:45] <fnoble> hello
[13:45] <fnoble> edmoore: yey, eeeeee
[13:45] <edmoore> eeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[13:45] <fnoble> eeeeeee
[13:45] <edmoore> we'll have to dash-mount the pair of them
[13:45] <fnoble> this makes me sad though
[13:45] <fnoble> my eee is poorly
[13:45] <edmoore> one with map, one with rtty decode (+ waterfall) + radio remote control
[13:46] <fnoble> have you plaid with the pc control of the icom?
[13:46] <edmoore> the only problem is, your official command centre bit of dash has an air bag
[13:46] <fnoble> played
[13:46] <edmoore> and i don't really want to put stuff ontop of that
[13:46] <fnoble> yeah, bad idea
[13:47] <edmoore> I've not built a cable for it, no, but it looks trviail
[13:47] <edmoore> basic serial
[13:47] <fnoble> ok
[13:47] <edmoore> and there's a big and thorough command list in the manual
[13:47] <fnoble> no us beans?
[13:47] <edmoore> what?
[13:47] <fnoble> usb
[13:47] <edmoore> oh no
[13:47] <edmoore> ftdi job i reckon
[13:47] <edmoore> small bananas
[13:47] <edmoore> fnoble: how did you partition up your eeeeeeeee?
[13:48] <fnoble> minature plantains
[13:48] <edmoore> i've got the 4gb disc and the 16gb disc
[13:48] <edmoore> i have just stuck everything on the 4gb for the time being
[13:48] <fnoble> erm, i used the 16gb bit as the main drive
[13:49] <fnoble> and then used the 4gb as extra storage that can be mounted
[13:49] <edmoore> maybe that is more sensible...
[13:49] <fnoble> which is the opposite of how asus do it
[13:49] <edmoore> i don't suppose it makes much dif
[13:49] <fnoble> but you run out of 4gb quite quickly
[13:49] <fnoble> the basic system is like 2gb
[13:49] <fnoble> and its a pain to install programs to other disks
[13:50] <edmoore> oh is it?
[13:50] <edmoore> ok not to worry
[13:50] <edmoore> will re-do
[13:50] <fnoble> did you go for ubuntueee?
[13:51] <edmoore> eeexubuntu, though i did look at ubuntueee
[13:51] <edmoore> it does look not bad, though still seemed to have some issues
[13:55] <edmoore> i guess there's the luxury of it not really mattering atm
[13:57] <edmoore> ok, installing on the 16gb one
[13:58] <edmoore> will leave that to do its thing
[13:59] <edmoore> Blast really is a cool mission
[13:59] <edmoore> *whistfulness*
[14:00] <fnoble> yeah
[14:00] <edmoore> and east anglia has the benefit of hedgerows, which might help in some small measure to stop a mission being dragged 120 miles along the ground
[14:00] <fnoble> thinking about hobble, what was your plan for pointing the thing?
[14:00] <fnoble> and stabilising it?
[14:01] <edmoore> mems to give you +/- a gree or so, then a star tracker to give you, say, 30 arc second
[14:01] <fnoble> ok
[14:01] <edmoore> stabilisation - probably reaction wheels for very fine control whilst star tracking, and a command moment gyro for rough pointing, especially on yaw
[14:02] <edmoore> and to desaturate the yaw reaction wheel
[14:02] <fnoble> thats a lot of work hehe
[14:02] <edmoore> basically azimuth is the thing that needs lots of effort gone in
[14:03] <edmoore> elevation should be doable pretty conventionally
[14:03] <fnoble> really think you could hope to get 30 arc seconds stability?
[14:03] <edmoore> i think it's possible, yeah
[14:03] <edmoore> you'd need the controller to be pretty well tuned
[14:04] <edmoore> feedback wise, you would 'only' need a basic star tracker
[14:04] <edmoore> i use 'only' with a pinch of salt as it's not a trvial thing to make
[14:04] <fnoble> but luckily that overlaps with what henry is doing anyway
[14:05] <edmoore> but i mean, if you do the basic sums on how far a star moves in a spotting scope of a given magnification if you move 30 arc seconds, and how many pixels that corresponds to, it's not too hard
[14:05] <edmoore> exactly
[14:05] <edmoore> i think it's worth making some hardware whatever and iterating
[14:06] <edmoore> we can fairly quickly get something to hold you +/- a degree. that's a good base for experimentation
[14:06] <edmoore> we can mount a yagi on the balloon and point it at camb, for instance :)
[14:07] <fnoble> if you made a gyro to stabilise in the horizontal plane, could you then use that also as a reaction wheel for the azimuth?
[14:07] <fnoble> by changing its speed by a small amount
[14:07] <edmoore> sure, i see what you're saying
[14:07] <edmoore> yes in theory
[14:07] <edmoore> you just run the risc of saturation
[14:07] <edmoore> but you have the problem whatever happens
[14:08] <edmoore> my other idea was a free floating cardin suspension for the telescope
[14:08] <edmoore> with gyros onboard to point it
[14:08] <edmoore> but i think it's a bit complex
[14:09] <fnoble> cardin suspension?
[14:09] <edmoore> gotta remember that precession acts at 90 degrees to any disturbing force
[14:09] <edmoore> the 3 axis frame majigga you often see gyros come in
[14:09] <fnoble> ok
[14:09] <edmoore> that basically allows the gyro inside complete freedom in free space
[14:10] <edmoore> attitude-wise, anyway
[14:10] <fnoble> unless you get gimbal lock
[14:10] <fnoble> but yes
[14:10] <edmoore> naturally. but i won't be point my telescope up at the balloon :)
[14:10] <edmoore> though.... that would make one cool cutdown
[14:11] <edmoore> use the telescope mirror to reflect a high power laser and aim it at the balloon
[14:11] <edmoore> you don't actually need the mirror at all, of course. but coolness value
[14:11] <fnoble> use the pointing to get it to scan out a series of perforations
[14:12] <edmoore> zorro-like
[14:13] <edmoore> but yeah, the elevation shouldn't be as hard - you've got the frame to react against, and it's quatifiable
[14:13] <edmoore> and it's easy enough to test on the ground too
[14:14] <edmoore> just han it from a tree and ask it to take pictures of the moon
[14:14] <edmoore> hang*
[14:14] <fnoble> yup
[14:14] <edmoore> it'd be a lot of fun, even if it never made it as an astronomical instrument
[14:14] <edmoore> but hey, they could do 30 arc-secs in the 60s
[14:15] <fnoble> with serious budgets
[14:15] <fnoble> the fact that doing electronics has become much cheaper and easier sadly doesnt translate to mechanical engineering
[14:16] <edmoore> a webcam and a basic telescope can now let you take planetary photos at least as good as pros could do pre-hubble
[14:16] <edmoore> we can do this
[14:16] <edmoore> no, but it wasn't a mechanical engineering issue then either
[14:16] <edmoore> they're just cages with a scope and a reaction wheels
[14:16] <edmoore> their problems were control and automation and tracking
[14:18] <edmoore> we, nowadays, have the luxury of cheap and available carbon fibre rods - much lower thermal co-efficient (which always plagued them with optics shifting around cos of their metalic trusses) and cheap processing
[14:18] <edmoore> the rest of the budgetary shortfall we'll have to compensate for with cunning and cheating
[14:18] <edmoore> let me find you a pdf, hold on just a sec
[14:18] <fnoble> is there any other way, for example could we just let it swing and take video and then work out where in the sky each frame was?
[14:18] <edmoore> yes, was thinking that too
[14:19] <edmoore> only conceivable downside is that there is an advantage to being able to use very high grade off the shelf imagers, like a digital slr
[14:20] <fnoble> i guess you do want to be able to say, take a picture of such and such interesting things
[14:21] <edmoore> it'd be good to point it at roughly the right thing and take exposures, for sure
[14:21] <edmoore> we'd only have a few hours in a mission and i guess you'd just want to concetrate on one, maybe 2 things
[14:22] <fnoble> maybe if we could roughly point it with servos to tighten the field up but let it swing a degree or so
[14:22] <fnoble> as little as is possible, but im sure it will be hard to go sub degree with servos due to their response
[14:23] <fnoble> and resolution
[14:23] <edmoore> well there are other options
[14:23] <edmoore> so you have an entire platform that is controlled by serve elevation
[14:24] <edmoore> but then on that you can have servo 'shims'
[14:24] <fnoble> so like coarse and fine controls?
[14:24] <rjharrison_> temp/alt for the data junkies http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus2/temp-alt.pdf
[14:24] <edmoore> so a servo that moves the front of the telescope (which is hinged at the back) by +/- 1cm
[14:25] <edmoore> and that would give you very fine pointing control, I'd have thought
[14:25] <rjharrison_> I think the inversion is obviouse
[14:26] <rjharrison_> Any comments welcome
[14:26] <edmoore> what's going on at about 01:24?
[14:26] <fnoble> which scale is temperature?
[14:27] <fnoble> isnt that entering the tropopause?
[14:27] <rjharrison_> 25--25
[14:27] <rjharrison_> 25 to -25
[14:27] <edmoore> fnoble: on alt
[14:28] <fnoble> rjharrison_: :)
[14:28] <edmoore> the ascent rate goes a bit odd
[14:28] <rjharrison_> up lift
[14:28] <rjharrison_> ?
[14:28] <edmoore> there should be much of that at those altitudes
[14:28] <edmoore> though i guess it was a light payload
[14:29] <rjharrison_> ~250g
[14:29] <edmoore> could you plot ascent velocity vs time?
[14:29] <edmoore> on a graph with alt
[14:29] <rjharrison_> I could I think
[14:29] <rjharrison_> ie m/s for each change in units
[14:30] <rjharrison_> ie m/s for each delta per log line ?
[14:30] <edmoore> yeah
[14:30] <edmoore> that might be quite noisy, but let's see
[14:31] <fnoble> it has quite a few jumps in places compared to the usual very smooth curve
[14:33] <fnoble> it might be interesting to plot temp against alt to see if that blip at the same point in temp is just due to the rapid change in altitude, or if there is something else there too
[14:36] <fnoble> actually, it could just be the gps
[14:37] <fnoble> sometimes the lassen gets stuck with a certain alt solution for a while and then will suddenly change its mind
[14:38] <fnoble> although probably not by 5000m
[14:38] <edmoore> exactly
[14:41] <rjharrison_> that is temp against alt
[14:41] <rjharrison_> ahh no it's not
[14:41] <edmoore> no, it's temp and alt against time
[14:41] <edmoore> :p
[14:42] <edmoore> temp vs alt gives you a curve that sort of double back up on itself
[14:44] <edmoore> fnoble: did wifi work fine after install for you?
[14:44] <fnoble> cant remember, but there were a few things broken in eeexubuntu
[14:44] <fnoble> its not really designed for the 901
[14:45] <rjharrison_> http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus2/temp-against-alt.pdf
[14:45] <rjharrison_> not sure how this help
[14:45] <rjharrison_> s
[14:45] <rjharrison_> please let me know
[14:46] <edmoore> cheat :p
[14:46] <rjharrison_> ?
[14:46] <fnoble> rjharrison_: thats still temp against time
[14:46] <edmoore> your altitude scale isn't an altitude scale
[14:47] <edmoore> it's time mapped onto the corresponding altitude
[14:47] <rjharrison_> humm
[14:47] <rjharrison_> ahh
[14:48] <fnoble> edmoore: looks like there is something about a wifi driver deb on the eeexubuntu page
[14:50] <fnoble> edmoore: sure you dont want to go for ubuntu eee? eeexubuntu is no longer maintained
[14:50] <edmoore> ok, will have a look
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[15:01] <edmoore> fnoble: will try eeebuntu
[15:02] <fnoble> oooh, didnt see that one
[15:02] <fnoble> looks nice
[15:02] <edmoore> it's downloading now
[15:02] <edmoore> in the mean time, better actually have a shower and that stuff i was meaning to do earlier
[15:02] <fnoble> it uses the array.org kernel so should be good
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[15:03] <rjharrison_> fnoble edmoore try again
[15:03] <edmoore> ?
[15:03] <rjharrison_> this is not my strong point
[15:04] <rjharrison_> http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus2/temp-against-alt.pdf
[15:04] <fnoble> rjharrison_: that looks right
[15:04] <rjharrison_> Is that temp/alt
[15:04] <edmoore> not entirely sure it's right
[15:05] <edmoore> i think one of the halfs wants to be mirrored
[15:05] <fnoble> you always get a loop due to lag
[15:05] <edmoore> rjharrison_: it's actually a non trivial thing to do
[15:05] <edmoore> sure, but 5000m altitude is probably not both 10 degrees and -20 degrees
[15:05] <edmoore> rjharrison_: especially with excel
[15:05] <rjharrison_> Insulation ?
[15:05] <fnoble> yes, it could well be
[15:05] <fnoble> think of the initial conditions
[15:06] <fnoble> remember the descent is very rapid and the payload starts off cold
[15:07] <rjharrison_> And wet at the end ?
[15:07] <edmoore> there doesn't seem to be any warm-up at the end though
[15:07] <rjharrison_> Al least more moisture on the way down
[15:07] <edmoore> i guess the data could be missing if it was over telem
[15:07] <fnoble> add to that a bit off thermal lag
[15:07] <rjharrison_> Ahh that is cos there is a load of data missing from 3km down to ground
[15:07] <fnoble> i dont think its far off the graph we got from the teddies
[15:08] <rjharrison_> jumps from -18 to 11
[15:08] <rjharrison_> We'll just have to do more data and well have a better idea what normal is
[15:09] <fnoble> i think the ascent part of the loop should be pretty representative of the outside temperature?
[15:09] <rjharrison_> Will have external sensor on next launch
[15:10] <fnoble> cool
[15:10] <edmoore> oh of course, it was internal
[15:10] <edmoore> ignore me
[15:10] <edmoore> sorry, half installing half reading
[15:10] <rjharrison_> Sorry
[15:10] <edmoore> my bad
[15:10] <edmoore> h'ok
[15:13] <rjharrison_> I guess the insulation works both ways
[15:15] <edmoore> it adds lag
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[16:24] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
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[16:32] <rjharrison_> natrium42 pING
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[16:33] Action: SpeedEvil notes radio 4 is relevant. (though prolly you know)
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[17:12] <edmoore|away> SpeedEvil: come again?
[17:12] Nick change: edmoore|away -> edmoore
[17:12] <edmoore> hi rjharrison_
[17:13] <fnoble> edmoore: w
[17:13] <fnoble> wb
[17:13] <edmoore> fnoble: x
[17:14] <edmoore> oh ta
[17:17] <edmoore> fnoble: general thoughts about payloads as a truss that you just bold random bits onto where there's space?
[17:17] <edmoore> in otherwords, a bit like blast
[17:17] <fnoble> edmoore: not averse to the idea
[17:18] <fnoble> im guessing thats what the rockoon will be like
[17:18] <edmoore> yeah
[17:18] <fnoble> for small payloads might be heavy though
[17:19] <edmoore> well if you only have one box, that's all you need :)
[17:19] <edmoore> i won't load up the whiteboard thing as eeebuntu is saturating my bandwidth, but would sketch an idea for a payload if we had to, say, do the teds again
[17:21] <edmoore> though back to heaviness, JP's triangulated carbon fibre jobbies are very very light for what they are
[17:21] <edmoore> there was a blog post on how they built them, I seem to remember reading
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[18:19] <rjharrison_> i edmoore
[18:19] <rjharrison_> hi
[18:20] <rjharrison_> How's the eee going?
[18:20] <rjharrison_> any sign of rtty
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[18:23] <rjharrison_> ping edmoore
[18:23] <edmoore> rjharrison_: installing eeebuntu on it no - eeexubuntu isn't so good
[18:23] <edmoore> i'll probably use CUSF's rtty decoding program
[18:23] <edmoore> it's robust
[18:23] <rjharrison_> hehe
[18:23] <rjharrison_> cool
[18:23] <rjharrison_> good olf fnoble
[18:23] <rjharrison_> old
[18:23] <akawaka> need to port some ham apps to the iphone
[18:24] <edmoore> if you want it, fnoble will be the person to suck up to - it's currently residing on his eee, i beleive
[18:24] <rjharrison_> I might give him a nudge
[18:24] <rjharrison_> I'll see how I get on with getting fldigi working
[18:25] <edmoore> fldigi seems like a good program too, tbh
[18:25] <rjharrison_> It is great and free
[18:25] <edmoore> did it refuse to play last time or something?
[18:25] Nick change: Bluenarf -> EI5GTB
[18:25] <edmoore> our code doesn't have nice things like waterfall plots yet - fldigi seems like quite a good complete thing in that respect
[18:25] <rjharrison_> Nar it gets a bit upset if you don't send a couple of stop bits
[18:26] <edmoore> is it OS?
[18:26] <rjharrison_> Once it's going it's fine = OS = any
[18:26] <akawaka> probably easy enough to fix
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[18:27] <edmoore> yeah - as a way of people getting into HAB, it sounds like a godsend
[18:27] <edmoore> and getting listening stations up quickly
[18:27] <rjharrison_> Yep when I put my temp sensor in it take .1 sec to get a reading and during this time the tx is high on the radiometrix and then it's happy
[18:28] <rjharrison_> once decoding it works a treat but it dosn't have the option for 1200 baud so i haven't thrasshed the f*** out of it yet
[18:29] <rjharrison_> MAx baud is 300
[18:29] <rjharrison_> just checked
[18:29] <rjharrison_> Fine for all i need I'm almost certainly going to stick with 50 baud
[18:30] <rjharrison_> I can't see a good reason to change to anything faster
[18:30] <rjharrison_> natrium42 ping
[18:31] <natrium42> like hi
[18:31] <rjharrison_> hi natrium42
[18:31] <rjharrison_> I sorted my data out in the end
[18:31] <natrium42> cool
[18:31] <rjharrison_> It seemed easire to count the number of chars if the lat long was less than 6dp I just added 0 after the dp
[18:32] <rjharrison_> eg 0.9456 should be 0.009456
[18:32] <rjharrison_> http://www.robertharrison.org/tracker/
[18:32] <natrium42> looks good
[18:33] <rjharrison_> natrium42 there are some funny graphs to do with temp and alt on http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus2/
[18:33] <rjharrison_> Close to the sea again I hadn't realised how lucky i was
[18:34] <rjharrison_> I think the next launch is going to have to be a fast one
[18:34] <rjharrison_> I'm not going to get 3 times lucky :)
[18:34] <natrium42> hehe
[18:34] <edmoore> a few 'textbook' missions under your belt will help a lot in getting a measure of what you're doing
[18:34] <edmoore> but it's good to flirt with danger :)
[18:35] <rjharrison_> text book = high lift?
[18:35] <rjharrison_> 1kg +
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> most textbooks are >1kg indeed.
[18:35] <rjharrison_> The first thing I need to learn about is how to read wunderground
[18:43] <edmoore> it's easy
[18:43] <edmoore> not really .1kg
[18:43] <edmoore> >1kg*
[18:43] <edmoore> just hazard free up and down, knowing roughly where it'll go, seeing that is descends as expected and so on. Launching on a humid of cloudy day would be worthwhile too.
[18:43] <edmoore> it's nice to discover problems anyway :)
[18:43] <natrium42> nobody has launched an iphone yet
[18:43] <natrium42> rjharrison_: it would make a nice payload in a phone
[18:43] <natrium42> for altitude record with camera
[18:43] <natrium42> since it's quite light
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[18:52] <fnoble> hmm, could insure your iphone and then fly it
[18:52] <fnoble> "erm... i lost it at sea officer"
[18:52] <edmoore> i'm not sure insurance covers space travel
[18:52] <edmoore> maybe it does
[18:54] <natrium42> pfft
[18:54] <natrium42> i'd do it
[18:54] <edmoore> fnoble: let's find a spotting scope and buy it
[18:55] <fnoble> ill see if i can find the one i was looking at
[18:55] <edmoore> cool
[18:57] <edmoore> 1hour till eeebuntu finally gets in
[18:58] <fnoble> this kind of thing Meade DS-2080AT
[18:58] <fnoble> computerised mound with a simple refracting jobby on top
[18:58] <fnoble> i did find one for about £100 though
[19:05] <edmoore> would have a look but everything's a bit slow
[19:05] <edmoore> i downloaded the full version of eeebuntu which apparently has compiz
[19:05] <edmoore> yay for silliness
[19:06] <edmoore> might have to turn that off
[19:07] <natrium42> lol
[19:08] <fnoble> no, it runs ok apparantly
[19:09] <edmoore> well, if it's fine then fnoble we'll need to have cube transitions on the tracker
[19:10] <edmoore> fnoble: have you seen kc0wys' update?
[19:11] <fnoble> nope?
[19:11] <edmoore> kc0wys.com
[19:11] <edmoore> ensure-ii mission
[19:14] <fnoble> friggin cool
[19:14] <fnoble> diy video transmitter?
[19:14] <edmoore> not bad for a 15/16 year old
[19:14] <edmoore> off the shelf
[19:15] <edmoore> but superimposes telem data onto the video-out from the camera
[19:15] <edmoore> at atmega grabs the synch pulse and then just spits out over the top
[19:15] <fnoble> yup i saw
[19:15] <fnoble> nice
[19:16] <fnoble> maybe someone should tell him our experience of the pcb/metal studding stack design though
[19:17] <edmoore> no :p
[19:17] <edmoore> right, sups
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[19:17] <edmoore> bbl
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[19:19] <natrium42> hmm, very impressive
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[19:20] Nick change: Bluenarf -> EI5GTB
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[19:34] <natrium42> http://www.adwiens.com/projects/other/01/index.html
[19:34] <natrium42> :D
[19:34] <natrium42> kc0wys is going to go far
[19:39] <edmoore> agreed
[19:39] <edmoore> single sided pcb manufacturing to the extreme
[19:44] <fnoble> edmoore: the cambridge repeater group loan radio is a ft-60r
[19:45] <fnoble> edmoore: which would be perfect for when out and about
[19:45] <fnoble> handheld
[19:45] <fnoble> 5w 2m and 70cm
[19:46] <edmoore> sensitivity?
[19:48] <fnoble> checking
[19:48] <edmoore> me too, but so sloooow
[19:48] <fnoble> i mean really for talking between the crew
[19:48] <edmoore> 14 mins til it gets in
[19:49] <edmoore> oh sure yeah, but it'd be interesting to see anyway
[19:49] <edmoore> are we entitles to them regardless? what's the criteria?
[19:49] <fnoble> yeah, just need to be cuws members
[19:50] <fnoble> maybe also members of the repeater group (only £10 i think)
[19:50] <fnoble> and they let you have one until you graduate
[19:50] <edmoore> worth it
[19:51] <edmoore> for us two anyway
[19:51] <fnoble> and henry
[19:51] <edmoore> not long left for thim though :)
[19:52] <edmoore> does the repeater group have a website?
[19:52] <fnoble> sensitivity is like 0.2uV but thats quoted for FM
[19:53] <edmoore> can it do ssb?
[19:53] <fnoble> ill check
[19:53] <fnoble> looks like not
[19:53] <fnoble> just AM/FM
[19:53] <edmoore> but basically yes I agree - it'd be a good thing to take advantage of
[19:53] <EI5GTB> get a cheap handheld offa ebay.. i have gotten a few, and the type i bought was perfect
[19:54] <EI5GTB> matched my vx-7r well
[19:54] <EI5GTB> and only 30 euro
[19:54] <edmoore> ssb would be nice for chasing though, gotta admit!
[19:54] <EI5GTB> posted..
[19:54] <fnoble> yeah
[19:55] <edmoore> vx-7r looks yummy
[19:58] <fnoble> edmoore: when do we hear about our full liscences?
[19:58] <edmoore> i was going to ask you
[19:58] <edmoore> it's basically been 28 days
[20:01] <edmoore> another aerospace engineer
[20:01] <fnoble> yeah, i saw that
[20:01] <edmoore> we can put him in the enclosure with iain
[20:01] <edmoore> maybe they will mate and we can create a colony of aerospace engineers here at cuspaceflight
[20:01] <edmoore> i may have been watching too much 'animal park'
[20:02] <edmoore> we can be the not-very-eloquent-but-passionate keepers
[20:02] <fnoble> no, we need to keep them under-fed
[20:02] <edmoore> 'they seem to be playing with each other. maybe leave 'em for a bit'
[20:02] <fnoble> so they fight each other for our affections
[20:02] <edmoore> 'he's stroking iain'
[20:02] <edmoore> 'they're doing their mating behaviour - Navier-strokes'
[20:02] <fnoble> by designing even more fantastic peices of matlab code
[20:03] <edmoore> i'll go now.
[20:03] Action: fnoble says nothing about duckted flow
[20:04] <fnoble> -k
[20:04] <fnoble> ok ok enough of this
[20:05] <edmoore> 'oooooo, your stagnation temperature is making me all hot and sweaty'
[20:09] <edmoore> so...
[20:09] <EI5GTB> edmoore, yea, vx-7r is sweet
[20:10] <EI5GTB> vx-8r looks sweet too
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[20:26] <edmoore> zuesbot's attendance has been a bit sporadic
[20:26] <edmoore> but i've not seen him here either
[20:26] <rjharrison> eveing all back in the driving seat
[20:26] <rjharrison> heh
[20:26] <rjharrison> e
[20:27] <rjharrison> Hows it going with the eee
[20:27] <rjharrison> Do you have wireless working?
[20:28] <edmoore> funny you should say that, just got the usb disc image for eeebuntu out and can see the splash screen now
[20:28] <edmoore> its spash screen is nicer than eeexubuntu, can tell you that so far
[20:28] <edmoore> it took about 5hrs for the iso to download. poo for slow braodband
[20:30] <edmoore> gosh, this is nice
[20:30] <edmoore> i'm excited
[20:30] <edmoore> compiz runs very nicely
[20:30] <edmoore> very polished
[20:31] <edmoore> rjharrison: of the three eee-specific distro live CDs i've messed with, eeebuntu 2.0 is the best looking so far.
[20:33] <rjharrison> Ok great I have the stock stuff on mine at the moment and I'm looking for some excitement
[20:33] <edmoore> it's a definite step up
[20:33] <rjharrison> I need to have more control
[20:34] <rjharrison> I want the avr tool chain on there and such like
[20:35] <edmoore> that's definitely floating about on the interwebs
[20:36] <fnoble> bbl
[20:38] <rjharrison> Will let you play for a bit one the eebuntu and see what you think
[20:48] <Tigga_> nout wrong with aurospace engineers....
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[21:25] <jcoxon> hmmm this sunday is reasonable to launch on now
[21:29] <edmoore> rjharrison: still going swimmingly
[21:30] <edmoore> bestest linux experience for me so far on any platform
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[21:35] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
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[21:46] <natrium42> jcoxon: sup?
[21:47] <rjharrison> hi
[21:48] <jcoxon> natrium42, we are just intergrating the DL server to your tracker page
[21:48] Nick change: weechat_user -> jiffe
[21:48] Nick change: jiffe -> jiffe88
[21:48] <jcoxon> were thinking of just directly GET posting to your page
[21:48] <jcoxon> and having that as the public page - is that okay?
[21:48] <natrium42> sure
[21:48] <jcoxon> also means we can still mess around without interfereing till launch days
[21:49] <jcoxon> also means that people know where to always look for tracking of a balloon
[21:49] <jcoxon> oh and i passed on those ideas to Bill Brown that you emailed me
[21:49] <natrium42> cool
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[21:50] <natrium42> jcoxon: i wanted to change the tracker a bit soonish
[21:50] <natrium42> today i think :)
[21:50] <jcoxon> okay
[21:50] <edmoore> what's on the cards?
[21:50] <jcoxon> one thing that would be cool would be POST submission :-p
[21:50] <natrium42> could you maybe wait one day with the changes?
[21:50] <natrium42> i just don't want to break anything :)
[21:50] <jcoxon> natrium42, we weren't going to need any changes
[21:50] <jcoxon> just submit the normal way from our server
[21:50] <jcoxon> to yours
[21:51] <jcoxon> if you have POST i can use my phone to auto upload chase car positions
[21:51] <natrium42> oh, that's fine then
[21:51] <natrium42> i was just thinking of adding stations also
[21:51] <jcoxon> ooo that would be nice
[21:52] <natrium42> so that the marker bubbles have a list of stations that received that position
[21:52] <natrium42> dunno, have to play with it
[21:52] <jcoxon> how about vehicle=M6JCX etc
[21:52] <jcoxon> or another field
[21:53] <edmoore> it would be good to have a list of all the live items on the map, down the side like you have now
[21:53] <natrium42> well, each vehicle is an object
[21:53] <akawaka> you have multiple stations?
[21:53] <natrium42> but the positions can be received by different stations
[21:53] <edmoore> but with a check box in each giving the option to turn their map trace on or off
[21:54] <natrium42> edmoore: that's a good idea
[21:54] <jcoxon> natrium42, in theory though the system is designed not to differentiate between the stations
[21:54] <edmoore> am just thinking about the day when we do 4 simultaneous launches with 4 chase cars - could get messy :)
[21:54] <jcoxon> they complement each other filling in the gaps
[21:54] <natrium42> edmoore: hehe, true
[21:54] <natrium42> another idea is to have tabs
[21:54] <jcoxon> but yeah there is no reason we can't submit with a station field
[21:54] <natrium42> and a combined view in main tab
[21:55] <edmoore> i like that idea a lot
[21:55] <edmoore> i was thinking a dedicted map tab, without irc or video, would be good
[21:55] <jcoxon> thats what rjharrison has just done to his page
[21:55] <edmoore> admin tab, as you mentioned
[21:55] <natrium42> yeah, irc & video should be removable from admin interface anyway
[21:55] <jcoxon> its teh raw data page
[21:56] <jcoxon> natrium42, the cool thing about station submission would be graphs of which stations are winning the competition
[21:56] <jcoxon> as this is to be come a competition
[21:56] <natrium42> hehe :D
[21:56] <edmoore> :p
[21:56] <jcoxon> but
[21:56] <jcoxon> the chase cars don't count
[21:56] <jcoxon> its for everyone else
[21:56] <natrium42> also the type of radio?
[21:56] <jcoxon> as the chase cars are too close
[21:56] <natrium42> i bet edmoore wants to put ic-7000 somewhere
[21:57] <natrium42> :P
[21:57] <edmoore> it takes one to know one, natrium42
[21:57] <rjharrison> location of the listening station would be good too
[21:57] <jcoxon> at teh bottom of the payload relaying the received data - clear copy of everything :-p
[21:57] <edmoore> rjharrison: agreed
[21:57] <rjharrison> Possibly on every submission if mobile
[21:57] <natrium42> yeah, so we need a page to register stations
[21:58] <natrium42> it can be done through admin
[21:58] <natrium42> dunno if we want to have public registration too, do we?
[21:58] <edmoore> well, not necessarily - just add that to the email protocol
[21:58] <edmoore> from the station
[21:58] <edmoore> it includes the balloon string and its own location
[21:58] <natrium42> aah
[21:59] <natrium42> but, what if the listener is not stationary?
[21:59] <edmoore> so that works for both cars and listening posts
[21:59] <rjharrison> Humm I quite like the idea of post
[21:59] <rjharrison> seems to have served us well
[21:59] <edmoore> natrium42: the car would have to have its own gps, yes
[21:59] <rjharrison> I can do about 2000 sumbissions per second
[21:59] <edmoore> that's just rude :p
[22:00] <natrium42> rjharrison: we will assume that the stations aren't hostile :D
[22:00] <edmoore> i think the post system works too - just email your position and what you think the balloon is doing
[22:00] <rjharrison> The location should be optional as not every one will be able to submit location
[22:00] <rjharrison> jcoxon can you modify the client
[22:01] <edmoore> true yes. so can just see if it's there on the string or not
[22:01] <edmoore> would be useful info though to know where listeners are listening from
[22:01] <jcoxon> the client can be easily modified
[22:01] <natrium42> edmoore: do you think i should put it into some svn?
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[22:02] <edmoore> I reckon so. this kind of server stuff is not my area but i'd love to have a look, and it'd be generally beneficial i think
[22:02] <natrium42> kk, noted
[22:02] <edmoore> sounds like everyone has lots of good ideas and stuff to contribute
[22:02] <natrium42> yep, this brainstorming was quite productive, actually
[22:02] <jcoxon> natrium42, so what sort of data do you want? station lon/lat
[22:02] <jcoxon> guess its not difficult for people to find out
[22:02] <natrium42> i will get started after some coffee
[22:03] <edmoore> a good 'how you can help' tab on the tracker would be good
[22:03] <natrium42> lat/lon or "unavailable"
[22:03] <jcoxon> i'll add location as a command argument and in a bit i'll add a gps support :-p
[22:03] <edmoore> explaining the tech, a bit of documentation, some photos of people's listening stations etc
[22:03] <natrium42> do we need alt too for the stations? :D
[22:03] <jcoxon> natrium42, perhaps countries as well as an option
[22:03] <natrium42> what if the station is a balloon :P
[22:03] <jcoxon> natrium42, good thinking - future proof
[22:03] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:04] <natrium42> ;)
[22:04] <jcoxon> perhaps on the side a list of submitters + their respected flags
[22:04] <edmoore> nice
[22:04] <jcoxon> of the base country
[22:04] <natrium42> a table of some sorts
[22:04] <edmoore> that will be super useful for trans
[22:04] <jcoxon> exactly
[22:04] <jcoxon> lucky zeusbot is logging right now :-p
[22:05] <edmoore> jcoxon: random asside - best lightweight irc client for linux?
[22:05] <edmoore> need #highaltitude on the eee :)
[22:05] <jcoxon> i a massive fan of xchat
[22:05] <natrium42> i usually assume browser width of 900px or higher
[22:05] <natrium42> could add tabs, if not enough room
[22:05] <natrium42> well, we want tabs anyway
[22:06] <jcoxon> edmoore, the lighest would be cmd line
[22:06] <fnoble> edmoore: xchat seconded
[22:06] <edmoore> tabs might be good, especially as i've just slavishly followed the netbook fashion
[22:06] <natrium42> xchat ftw
[22:06] <jcoxon> something like rhapsody
[22:06] <edmoore> rjharrison and fnoble both have eees, for example
[22:06] <edmoore> ok xchat, ta
[22:06] <edmoore> will apt-get once octave's done
[22:06] <fnoble> hehe, priorities
[22:06] <edmoore> :)
[22:06] <natrium42> octave, what's next? gcc?
[22:06] <natrium42> :P
[22:06] <fnoble> latex?
[22:07] <edmoore> got gcc already
[22:07] <edmoore> and latex
[22:07] <rjharrison> jcoxon I have gps code that works under *nix if that's any help
[22:07] <natrium42> so it's a work machine now
[22:07] <rjharrison> I use it to do chase car tracking though I forgot to install it
[22:07] <rjharrison> at the w/e
[22:07] <edmoore> in this order: skype, subversion, build-essential (gcc), latex, octave
[22:07] <jcoxon> rjharrison, yeah its something i want to think through - cross platform rubbish et al
[22:07] <fnoble> edmoore: ill send you my xchat and gvim theme at some point iuw
[22:07] <edmoore> oh and nonfree flash plugin
[22:08] <edmoore> fnoble: ta
[22:08] <edmoore> also adobe for the mac, if that's ok :)
[22:08] <fnoble> yeah, i left it in camb
[22:08] <fnoble> only have it on dvd
[22:08] <edmoore> np
[22:09] <edmoore> another idea - is it possible to change the drawing pin thing in gmaps?
[22:09] <rjharrison> natrium42 could we put a dynamic option on the map size as it's quite nice to go big if you have the room
[22:09] <edmoore> so we have something a bit more obvious for the balloon, and less imposing for all the listening posts?
[22:10] <edmoore> i agree on the resive point
[22:10] <edmoore> size*
[22:10] <natrium42> rjharrison has a nice ballon thingy
[22:10] <fnoble> can you use any icon?
[22:10] <natrium42> *had
[22:10] <natrium42> yes
[22:10] <rjharrison> I have that still
[22:10] <fnoble> i made some for my tracker i can send over if you give me a sec
[22:10] <rjharrison> Do you want it
[22:11] <natrium42> sure, could you put it up somwhere?
[22:11] <natrium42> well, i will see which one fits the best :P
[22:12] <fnoble> one sec
[22:12] <natrium42> are numbers fine? or should we switch to letters?
[22:12] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/trackerold/balloon.png
[22:12] <rjharrison> might be a bit big
[22:12] <edmoore> colours?
[22:12] <natrium42> hmm, yeah
[22:12] <rjharrison> nothing ps can't sort
[22:12] <natrium42> edmoore: true
[22:13] <jcoxon> perhaps as the lead pi
[22:13] <jcoxon> pin*
[22:13] <edmoore> limits you though
[22:13] <edmoore> numbers works fine i guess
[22:13] <natrium42> well, i am partially colour blind :P
[22:13] <natrium42> but yeah, lead pin is special
[22:13] <natrium42> hmm...
[22:14] <rjharrison> shit natrium42 you're going to need a programming team behind you for this
[22:14] <natrium42> haha
[22:14] <rjharrison> Where do we send the pizza too
[22:14] <natrium42> XD
[22:14] <natrium42> it's not too bad
[22:15] <natrium42> when's the deadline?
[22:16] <jcoxon> the next launch!
[22:16] <natrium42> oh oh
[22:16] <jcoxon> nah no deadline
[22:17] <natrium42> coffee time, bbl
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[22:30] <edmoore> bbl last orders
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[22:35] <fnoble> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/temp/
[22:35] <fnoble> those are the icons
[22:35] <fnoble> used arrow for launch
[22:35] <fnoble> and the targets are for predicted landing
[22:38] <fnoble> something like this for the listening stations http://www.veritasprep.com/images/icon_antenna2.gif
[22:40] <jcoxon> ooo i like that
[22:40] <fnoble> which one?
[22:42] <jcoxon> the antenna
[22:54] <gordonjcp> nice
[22:54] <gordonjcp> where are they from?
[22:55] <gordonjcp> edmoore: half ten last orders? Bit early surely?
[22:55] <fnoble> gordonjcp: made the targets, found the arrow somewhere cant remember
[22:56] <fnoble> made the balloon from a photo i think
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[23:19] <rjharrison> OMG
[23:20] <rjharrison> fldigi can control my radio
[23:20] <rjharrison> it's awsume
[23:20] <rjharrison> edmoore you are going to have to set this up
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[00:00] --- Fri Jan 9 2009