highaltitude.log.20090107

[00:05] <Laurenceb> cya all
[00:05] <edmoore> cya
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[00:20] <rjharrison> oops
[00:20] <rjharrison> just shifted computers about
[00:26] <rjharrison> nights
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[08:43] <Xenion> Guten Morgen / Good Morning folks ! :-)
[08:44] <natrium42> was geeeht?
[08:45] <Xenion> morgen natrium42 :-)
[08:45] <natrium42> moin
[08:45] <Xenion> einiges bin gerade fertig mit 2 stunden frühsport
[08:45] <Xenion> jetzt plan ich mir mein tag, und arbeite los :-)
[08:45] <natrium42> ah, wo arbeitest do?
[08:45] <natrium42> *du
[08:46] <Xenion> <- eigentlich beginnt jeder tag dieser woche gleich ... sport .. kaffe .. musik ( neue album von lisa miskovsky )
[08:46] <Xenion> natrium42, hab urlaub :-)
[08:46] <natrium42> cool
[08:46] <Xenion> natrium42, war nötig :-)
[08:46] <Xenion> hab die letzten wochen ( auch wochenden ) durchgearbeitet
[08:46] <Xenion> auch über weihnachten usw.
[08:47] <natrium42> ja, das stimmt, man braucht sich zu erholen
[08:48] <natrium42> also hast du zeit fuer eine ballon mission? :)
[08:48] <Xenion> natrium42, ich bereite seit 4 wochen eine vor
[08:48] <Xenion> :-)
[08:48] <Xenion> eigentlich wollte ich im dezember starten .. aber ich musste wie gesagt auch am WE arbeiten
[08:48] <natrium42> cool, was hast du alles drauf?
[08:48] <Xenion> hatte projekte @work
[08:49] <Xenion> natrium42, foxboard, mit 905mhz RF link für 105km, temp sensor, hm55b magnetfeld sensor, ccmos HD Cam
[08:49] <Xenion> aktuell kämpf ich mit der I2C PCB von der CMOS
[08:49] <Xenion> <- designed sich ne eigene PCB wo dann der CMOS mit I2C Bus drauf kommt
[08:49] <Xenion> die eagle files hab ich nun fertig, gehe sie nur mehrmals noch auf fehler durch
[08:50] <Xenion> das produzieren kostet 50¬ .. da darf kein fehler sein
[08:50] <natrium42> du steuerst den cmos sensor direkt mit i2c an?
[08:50] <Xenion> natrium42, ja
[08:50] <natrium42> welches teil ist es?
[08:51] <natrium42> ich habe mit omnivision sensoren rumgespielt
[08:51] <natrium42> die brauchten aber schnelles pixel clock
[08:52] <Xenion> natrium42, TCM8240MD
[08:53] <Xenion> natrium42, ich hab noch die option per relaise ( opto ) ne richtige Cam zu triggern ( alte fujifilm ) aber das gefällt mir nicht so
[08:55] <natrium42> vielleicht wuerde sowas etwas einfacher sein --> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/uart-camera-module-with-jpeg-compression-c328-p-209.html
[08:56] <natrium42> aber dein modul ist sehr billig wenn du es zum laufen bringen kannst :)
[08:57] <Xenion> natrium42, ja 6¬
[08:58] <Xenion> ist praktisch wegen dem preis
[08:58] <Xenion> natrium42, halt falsch
[08:58] <natrium42> man koennte sogar mehrere benutzen bei diesem preis :)
[08:58] <Xenion> der preis war nicht wichtig
[08:59] <Xenion> ich brauch die auflösung
[08:59] <Xenion> natrium42, tue ich auch
[08:59] <Xenion> später kommt das auf ein rover
[08:59] <Xenion> der kriegt 3 davon
[08:59] <Xenion> ich brauch dafür ne auflösung >1000px
[08:59] <Xenion> uund ich brauch die bilddaten möglichst RAW
[08:59] <natrium42> ah
[08:59] <Xenion> will das ganze als wavelet übertragen per funk
[09:00] <Xenion> highdef, mit fehlertoleranz und viel möglichkeiten zur kompression
[09:00] <Xenion> pi*daumen 10 - 20MB RAM bedarf
[09:00] <Xenion> aber das FB bzw. das Beagleboard ( welches ich für den rover dann nehme ) hat, eh 256
[09:00] <natrium42> wie schnell ist dein radio modul?
[09:01] <Xenion> natrium42, das variiert
[09:01] <Xenion> aktuell ist es nur eine übergangslösung
[09:01] <Xenion> das aktuelle 115200kbps
[09:01] <Xenion> das ist wenig aber ok mit CRC usw.
[09:01] <Xenion> <- entwickelt zur zeit ein eigenes basierend auf HGA
[09:02] <Xenion> die datenrate liegt dann hoffentlich bei 1mbps
[09:02] <natrium42> oh, das ist sehr schnell
[09:02] <natrium42> wie stark ist der sender?
[09:03] <Xenion> natrium42, das ist das woran ich arbeite
[09:03] <Xenion> schwer zu sagen
[09:03] <Xenion> ich könnt jetzt ne zahl nennen 1W aber ob es das dann am ende ist :-)
[09:03] <Xenion> natrium42, ich mach das mit einem Team zusammen
[09:03] <natrium42> ahso
[09:03] <Xenion> 2 leute machen allein das radio modul
[09:04] <natrium42> ich wuerde aber auch ein handy drauf tun
[09:04] <Xenion> ich gehör zu dem teil der die platinen und treiber für den linux kernel macht
[09:04] <natrium42> als absicherung
[09:04] <Xenion> natrium42, aso hab ich vergessen zu erwähnen, gsm ist dabei
[09:04] <Xenion> sowie gps
[09:04] <Xenion> achja genau
[09:04] <Xenion> und ein ds40xx optischer lichtsprektrum analysator
[09:05] <Xenion> der licht spektrum analysator wird noch was cooles ( von der API her ) :-)
[09:06] <Xenion> mein ziel ist es das ich damit später bestimmen kann, "wann" es sich lohnt solarzellen auszuklappen
[09:06] <Xenion> bei dem rover am boden
[09:06] <Xenion> natrium42, ich mach alles doppelt, das was auf dem rover kommt, kommt auf den ballon usw.
[09:06] <Xenion> selben compos .. nur das der ballon keine servos und IC dafür hat ;)
[09:08] <natrium42> sehr cool
[09:08] <natrium42> :)
[09:09] <Xenion> es gibt auch ne homepage, aber die ist absolut work-in-progress, ich werd gleich das design weiter neu machen .. also beurteil sie noch nicht zu früh :D
[09:09] <Xenion> www.part-time-scientists.com
[09:11] <natrium42> achso, es ist fuer lunar prize
[09:11] <Xenion> natrium42, jup :-)
[09:12] <Xenion> natrium42, dazu gehören die HALO tests
[09:12] <Xenion> wegen temparaturen usw.
[09:12] <natrium42> :)
[09:12] <natrium42> wie findest du das beagleboard?
[09:12] <Xenion> rechts neben mir
[09:12] <Xenion> :P
[09:13] <natrium42> :P
[09:13] <Xenion> natrium42, sehr gut .. aber noch beta mäßig
[09:13] <Xenion> es entwickelt sich erst
[09:13] <natrium42> es ist billiger als verdex das ich benutze
[09:13] <natrium42> aber die daten sind beeindruckend
[09:13] <Xenion> die software ist sehr gut, wobei es eine gewisse unordnung bei TI gibt
[09:13] <natrium42> openembedded, ja?
[09:13] <Xenion> es gibt mehrere kernel GIT trees .. davon offizielle und unsupportete
[09:14] <Xenion> beim foxboard gab es ein main tree
[09:14] <Xenion> der auch supported war
[09:14] <Xenion> das BB hat einige hardware probleme hinter sich
[09:14] <Xenion> bei den frühen B rev waren die lötstellen sehr schlecht
[09:14] <Xenion> bei den neueren B rev geht USB nicht ( falscher kontroller .. )
[09:14] <Xenion> bei C1 ( kommt in 1 Monat ) soll alles gehen auch USB
[09:15] <Xenion> aktuell ist B6 bzw. C0
[09:15] <Xenion> als rev
[09:15] <Xenion> ich hab mehrere B4 hier
[09:15] <Xenion> da muss man für USB selbst nochmal etwas löten damit man das machen kann und dann ist USB bei der B rev halt unstable
[09:15] <Xenion> natrium42, ABER das änert nichts daran das, dass teil sehr gut
[09:15] <Xenion> besonders die powerdomains sind klasse
[09:16] <natrium42> :S
[09:17] <natrium42> wenn diese probleme geloest sind, ist das wirklich sehr gut
[09:17] <natrium42> USB 2.0 *hi-speed*
[09:17] <natrium42> das ist genau was ich brauche
[09:17] <Xenion> hehe
[09:17] <natrium42> verdex hat nur full-speed USB 1.1
[09:17] <Xenion> ok dann hol dir die C1 rev
[09:17] <Xenion> februar
[09:17] <Xenion> :-)
[09:19] <Xenion> natrium42, für infos usw. join einfach dem offiziellen #beagle channel :-)
[09:20] <Xenion> dort sind mehr leute von TI als sonnstwo im netz ^^
[09:20] <natrium42> cool, danke
[09:20] <natrium42> zeit ins bett zu gehen -- 4:20am :S
[09:20] <natrium42> gute nacht!
[09:23] <Xenion> good night
[09:23] <Xenion> sleep well :)
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[09:30] <rjharrison_> moring all
[09:30] <rjharrison_> We're not in boats morning al l
[09:30] <rjharrison_> haha
[09:30] <rjharrison_> I can't type
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[11:36] <rjharrison_> Moring ed
[11:36] <rjharrison_> +n
[11:42] <rjharrison_> BTW I forgot to mention 90% of the balloon vanished
[11:42] <rjharrison_> I have remains I'll photo at some point
[11:43] <rjharrison_> edmoore How is that mounting of the radio going>
[11:44] <edmoore> rjharrison_: waiting for eee then may have a plan
[11:44] <edmoore> a strong stiff goose-neck stand that bolts into one of the chair bolts on the passenger seat
[11:44] <rjharrison_> Ooh sounds good have you ordered one?
[11:44] <rjharrison_> Hey that would be nice
[11:45] <rjharrison_> You can operate then when in the car
[11:45] <edmoore> yeah
[11:45] <edmoore> convenient for me to op or fergus to op]
[11:46] <rjharrison_> That's a mighty fine idea though construction will be interesting. You need a stiff flexible ting
[11:46] <rjharrison_> thing
[11:46] <edmoore> http://www.mountguys.com/product_p/sf240-asus.htm - this kind of thing
[11:47] <edmoore> http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=41836
[11:50] <rjharrison_> IWOOT
[11:51] <edmoore> could do the trick!
[11:52] <rjharrison_> I wonder what p&p is like
[12:05] <rjharrison_> edmoore would it be seay to send audio rtty stright from the pic into a radio
[12:05] <rjharrison_> avr
[12:06] <edmoore> so the microcontroller generates the audio?
[12:06] <rjharrison_> Yep
[12:06] <rjharrison_> Is it just a voltage doen the wire
[12:06] <rjharrison_> down
[12:06] <edmoore> well, it's a lot more work to actually generate an audio signal
[12:06] <rjharrison_> Just like what we send to the tx
[12:07] <edmoore> we just cd voltage levels to the tx
[12:07] <rjharrison_> Ahh what is an audio signal
[12:07] <edmoore> an audio signal, a pure tone anyway, is sinuisoidal
[12:07] <rjharrison_> ahh
[12:08] <rjharrison_> So back to the dac
[12:08] <edmoore> so you'd have to generate the sine waves at the correct frequency, say 500Hz/750Hz (for the two freqs)
[12:08] <rjharrison_> I'll leave that for another day
[12:08] <rjharrison_> If it was very easy i was going to make a connection to send the rtty into the data port of the radio
[12:09] <rjharrison_> So I could tx at 70 watts for local testing
[12:09] <edmoore> well, not only back to the dac, but to make a passably smooth sinwave, you need about 16 levels of DAC to egenrate the oscillations, and you've got to do that twice per wavelength, and 500 times per second
[12:09] <edmoore> so you've got a *lot* of interrupts!
[12:09] <edmoore> i'd just use the pc
[12:09] <rjharrison_> Humm I'll skip that.
[12:10] <edmoore> use the pc - fldigi, say, - to generate the rtty audio
[12:10] <edmoore> and feed that into the mic input of the radio
[12:10] <edmoore> you can do 70W on 70cm?
[12:10] <rjharrison_> Yep I wanted to test the payload in the car and I thought it would be good if i could send it at 5w rather than 10mw
[12:11] <edmoore> VCO
[12:11] <edmoore> the radiometrix has the vco built-in
[12:12] <rjharrison_> 20W
[12:12] <rjharrison_> What's a VCO
[12:12] <rjharrison_> Will it help me?
[12:12] <edmoore> voltage controlled oscillator
[12:12] <edmoore> you put the voltage in one end, you get the audio wave out the other
[12:12] <rjharrison_> Hence to make the signals
[12:13] <edmoore> frequency of that wave depends on the voltage you put in - it's exactly how it works in the radiometrix
[12:13] <edmoore> that audio frequency is then modulated onto a carrier frequency by the radio, and transmitted
[12:13] <rjharrison_> So could I buy a voc and do the same for input into the radio?
[12:13] <edmoore> yes
[12:14] <rjharrison_> Cheep?
[12:14] <rjharrison_> ish
[12:14] <edmoore> or a DDS
[12:14] <rjharrison_> Humm DDS?
[12:14] <edmoore> direct digital synthesis - you feed it a frequency over SPI, and it generates it
[12:15] <edmoore> analog devices (note: free samples) make good ones
[12:15] <edmoore> analog are basically very good for lots of things
[12:15] <rjharrison_> Oh I'll have a look
[12:16] <edmoore> some lovely, lovely, lovely micrcontroller/DSPs too
[12:17] <rjharrison_> Might be worth having a little toy which could pump out 5w / 20w rtty for getting the locals up to speed with logging
[12:18] <rjharrison_> And to test the pay load
[12:22] <edmoore> kd7lmo.net for DDS 70cm balloon telem
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[12:22] <Laurenceb> hello
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[13:05] <edmoore> hi kc0wys had a look at your updates
[13:05] <edmoore> great stff
[13:05] <edmoore> stuff*
[13:05] <edmoore> do you have a handle on the expected current draw with everything running?
[13:06] <kc0wys> well that was the old updates, haven't uploaded the cleaned up stuff yet
[13:06] <kc0wys> but it's still pretty recent
[13:07] <kc0wys> current draw is about 1.1 A at 18V
[13:07] <kc0wys> and about the same current when the batteries are low (about 12V)
[13:08] <edmoore> uhuh
[13:08] <kc0wys> i'm using 2 x 10 AA batteries in parallel for 5800 mAh @ 15V nominal
[13:08] <kc0wys> sounds like a lot, but they're lithiums, so the weight isn't *too* bad
[13:09] <kc0wys> the big load is the video transmitter, and it can be switched on/off remotely
[13:09] <edmoore> I can imagine
[13:09] <edmoore> it's never going to be a payload designed for breaking altitude records so you may aswell engineer it solidly
[13:09] <kc0wys> exactly
[13:10] <edmoore> so I can see the attraction of the battery packs
[13:10] <edmoore> it does look very smart
[13:11] <edmoore> any idea of the overall mass aswel?
[13:12] <kc0wys> with everything but the radio modem, which isn't finished yet, it's about 5 lbs
[13:12] <kc0wys> and google says that's about 2.27 kg
[13:12] <kc0wys> a bit lighter than my first launch
[13:13] <edmoore> wow, impressive. That's not bad at all
[13:13] <edmoore> for such a lot of hardware
[13:13] <edmoore> our teddy mission wasn't far off that
[13:13] <kc0wys> yea i was able to cut a bit of weight by using PCBs as the mounting medium as well
[13:14] <kc0wys> i was initially going to use plexiglass panels and mount pcb's to them, but this idea was better
[13:14] <edmoore> yeah - I've had a similar thing recently
[13:14] <edmoore> a lid for the top of a control box. turns out just using the pcb as the lib is fine
[13:15] <kc0wys> yea, they're quite solid
[13:15] <kc0wys> unfortunately the threaded rods holding it all together are steel tho, because i couldn't find a cheap source for aluminum threaded rods
[13:16] <edmoore> not much mass in the grand scheme of things
[13:16] <kc0wys> true
[13:22] <edmoore> got a potential launch date in mind or just whenever it's ready, kc0wys ?
[13:30] <kc0wys> mostly asap, but my goal is before school starts next year
[13:30] <kc0wys> hardware is almost done, then i can focus on software, which is hard to estimate how long it'll take
[13:32] <kc0wys> anyway i gotta go
[13:33] <kc0wys> catch you later
[13:33] <kc0wys> i don't get on here enough, i'll have to catch up on what you and everone else is doing :)
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[14:23] <rjharrison_> edmoore How about send up a video camera. I hace a nice .5kg one
[14:23] <edmoore> you reckon it'd be good for 2/3 hrs of continuous recording?
[14:23] <edmoore> if so, sounds like a grand idea
[14:23] <edmoore> I'd love to get burst
[14:24] <rjharrison_> 10hrs onto drive
[14:24] <edmoore> hard drive?
[14:25] <rjharrison_> It's going to be heavy
[14:25] <rjharrison_> yep
[14:25] <edmoore> ok
[14:25] <edmoore> they need air to work
[14:25] <rjharrison_> I have a big battery for it
[14:25] <rjharrison_> cushion
[14:25] <rjharrison_> Good point
[14:25] <edmoore> the reading head flots a small distance above the platter
[14:25] <rjharrison_> on a cusion of air
[14:25] <edmoore> yep
[14:25] <edmoore> which there's isn't much of, as you know, up the top :)
[14:25] <rjharrison_> humm
[14:26] <rjharrison_> ok best not *uck cam
[14:26] <edmoore> well, check the spec
[14:26] <edmoore> it might be sealed up
[14:26] <edmoore> but most consumer things specifiy an alt limit
[14:26] <rjharrison_> Do they
[14:26] <edmoore> for that reason
[14:26] <rjharrison_> !!!
[14:26] <edmoore> yeah
[14:26] <edmoore> anything with a hard drive, anyway
[14:26] <edmoore> could send up an eee...
[14:26] <rjharrison_> Just in case you want to send it up on a hab mission
[14:27] <edmoore> my macbook is specced to 3000m max
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[14:29] <edmoore> hi i_am_ed
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[14:30] <edmoore> bye then
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[14:56] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[14:56] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[15:04] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[15:14] <jcoxon> weird weather this weekend
[15:22] <edmoore> jcoxon: lemme have a looksee
[15:22] <edmoore> looks like they're not really sure
[15:23] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:23] <jcoxon> :-)
[15:33] <edmoore> i'll see if CUWS can pick up bill brown's signal
[15:33] <edmoore> when he launches
[15:34] <edmoore> and fo sho we've got to try hellshreiber
[15:34] <jcoxon> :-)
[15:34] <edmoore> there must be some kind of optical character recognition python library that can parse it :)
[15:34] <jcoxon> i replied to BIll saying thanks
[15:34] <edmoore> fergusnoble: we'll have to write a new library - hell_badger
[15:34] <edmoore> or badger_shreiber
[15:34] <jcoxon> and offered any help we could
[15:35] <edmoore> just got some 'monsoon malagar' coffee beans from waitrose
[15:35] <edmoore> absolutely delicious!
[15:36] <jcoxon> you and your coffee
[15:37] <edmoore> oh, jcoxon, got The Best Ever early-cold-morning-hab accessory
[15:37] <edmoore> it's a thermos mug but also a press
[15:37] <jcoxon> :-)
[15:37] <edmoore> with a container on the bottom for a second batch of coffee grind
[15:37] <edmoore> so you can have two large mugs of freshly pressed coffee
[15:37] <edmoore> mmmmmmmmmm
[15:38] <edmoore> definitely one for the drive back after chases
[15:39] <jcoxon> hehe
[15:48] <gordonjcp> ooh, I've got one of those
[15:48] <gordonjcp> well, the thermos mug with cafitiere
[15:48] <gordonjcp> cafetiere
[15:48] <edmoore> it looks roughly right, i understand :)
[15:48] <gordonjcp> it doesn't have the bit at the bottom
[15:49] <edmoore> the bit at the bottom is quite unecessary - you could just keep some more coffee in a film pot or something
[15:49] <edmoore> i guess that'dd be one of those common household items that will soon be much less common
[15:50] <gordonjcp> edmoore: I have a flightcase which I carry tea, coffee, bottles of water, milk, sugar for those who want it, cups and various cooking utensils in, including a 12-cup mocha pot ;-)
[15:50] <edmoore> :o
[15:50] <gordonjcp> and a petrol stove
[15:51] <edmoore> the most important flight case on any expedition
[15:51] <edmoore> I'm glad you added 'for those that want it'
[15:51] <edmoore> there's always one
[15:51] <rjharrison_> I'm looking forward to summer camp outs and lauching in the early hours this summer
[15:51] <gordonjcp> well I got the idea from some guys I worked with on aerial masts
[15:52] <edmoore> rjharrison_: the launches this summer were some of the most fun I've ever done
[15:52] <edmoore> especially dawn
[15:52] <edmoore> we definitely have to do that again soon
[15:52] <edmoore> maybe this term
[15:52] <EI5GTB> someone tell sterling to stop going up in price..
[15:52] <edmoore> is it going back up again?
[15:53] <rjharrison_> I want it too
[15:53] <EI5GTB> yea, 1e = 90p now
[15:54] <edmoore> phew
[15:54] <edmoore> on the mend slowly
[15:54] <EI5GTB> but.. if the trend is cortret, it will shoot back up past the euro in a few weeks
[15:54] <EI5GTB> i.e 1e will get you 1.10 gbp
[15:54] <EI5GTB> so your not out of the water yet :P
[15:55] <edmoore> EI5GTB: which way round?
[15:55] <edmoore> EI5GTB: yea, 1e = 90p now
[15:55] <edmoore> EI5GTB: i.e 1e will get you 1.10 gbp
[15:56] <EI5GTB> im thinking by april it might be 1 euro gets you 1.30
[15:56] <EI5GTB> yea, those are my projections tho
[15:56] <edmoore> they contradict each other
[15:56] <EI5GTB> atm its 1e = .9 gbp
[15:56] <EI5GTB> 1e = 1.10gbp is my predictionm for a few weeks
[15:57] <edmoore> so the sterling will start to weaken again?
[15:57] <EI5GTB> yup
[15:57] <EI5GTB> according to my predictions anyway..
[15:57] <edmoore> what makes you reckon that?
[15:57] <EI5GTB> ill show ya, hold, on, ill take a screenshot
[16:03] <edmoore> drama - pipe burst in cellar
[16:04] <EI5GTB> oops
[16:08] <EI5GTB> WHY WONT MY PRINTSCREEN BUTTON WORK?
[16:17] <EI5GTB> aha
[16:17] <EI5GTB> http://paulsnet.org/stering.jpg
[16:17] <EI5GTB> http://paulsnet.org/sterlng.jpg
[16:17] <EI5GTB> ffs
[16:17] <EI5GTB> http://paulsnet.org/sterling.jpg
[16:18] <EI5GTB> i have drawn 2 red lines
[16:18] <EI5GTB> see the way it stays in between em
[16:18] <EI5GTB> ?
[16:19] <jcoxon> EI5GTB, you trade with forextrader!
[16:20] <jcoxon> my father works for Saxo bank :-p
[16:21] <EI5GTB> lo, i wish i traded
[16:21] <EI5GTB> its only a practive account
[16:21] <jcoxon> oh right!
[16:22] <jcoxon> i was just in the london office's of saxo about 2 hrs ago and saw that exact graph
[16:22] <EI5GTB> lol, you think a 17 y/o would have $50,000 ?
[16:22] <jcoxon> well exactly!
[16:22] <EI5GTB> :P
[16:22] <EI5GTB> yea, its the live stats and all, thats what i use it for
[16:22] <EI5GTB> im trying to pick the past time to buy my van :D
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[16:23] <jcoxon> hehe, i 'borrowed' a forextrade desk diary - very good quality
[16:23] <EI5GTB> lol
[16:23] <EI5GTB> http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/cberlingo.jpg
[16:23] <EI5GTB> hoping to buy that :D
[16:23] <EI5GTB> think of all the antennas !
[16:24] <gordonjcp> they're nice wee vans
[16:25] <EI5GTB> yea
[16:25] <EI5GTB> if i can time the sterling right i can save 8k by buying in the north
[16:26] <EI5GTB> lol, what account info? as i said, its just a practive account.. it goes on a password they gave me even...
[16:26] <EI5GTB> my first fecking name, now thats secure
[16:27] <jcoxon> hehe i sent that before you replied earlier
[16:28] <EI5GTB> lol, yea
[16:28] <EI5GTB> if it was a real 50,000 i'd be more careful now :P
[16:28] <jcoxon> and you'd have that van
[16:30] <EI5GTB> yea!!
[16:30] <jcoxon> EI5GTB, you replied to my ballooning trans-atlantic thread :-)
[16:30] <edmoore> jcoxon: do you have means of listening to HF?
[16:30] <EI5GTB> ffs, i have to buy a new camera (2k) in febuary, and the van then in april... (9k) gonna be a tough year..
[16:31] <EI5GTB> jcoxon, yea
[16:31] <jcoxon> edmoore, not presently but perhaps!
[16:32] <EI5GTB> jcoxon, where do those baloons usually land?
[16:32] <edmoore> jcoxon: sounds cryptic!!
[16:32] <jcoxon> hmmm the sea
[16:33] <edmoore> jcoxon: got anything in mind?
[16:33] <jcoxon> a yaesu
[16:33] <jcoxon> EI5GTB, the last one was about 500km off Ireland
[16:33] <jcoxon> was tracked for about 3 days
[16:34] <jcoxon> ft-817
[16:34] <EI5GTB> nice.. pitty it wouldnt land in irealdn..
[16:34] <EI5GTB> or in the bay.. i could ggo out in our boat and get it..
[16:34] <edmoore> rjharrison_ has one of them doesn't he?
[16:34] <jcoxon> you are perfectly positioned
[16:34] <jcoxon> edmoore, yeah
[16:34] <edmoore> it's like the smallest thing in the world but does every mode on every freq
[16:34] <jcoxon> exactly
[16:35] <jcoxon> and not 'too' expensive
[16:35] <jcoxon> hmmm this makes me happy - they have finally fixed the usb client on the pxa270 in the linux kernel
[16:35] <jcoxon> finally might be able to free up that last serial port on my gumstix and use usbclient again
[16:35] <edmoore> why did it make you unhappy?
[16:35] <edmoore> oh right
[16:36] <jcoxon> being able to network over usb on the old gumstix was really helpful
[16:37] <jcoxon> but the newer chipset the kernel didn't support it - some weird infighting on the kernel list i think
[16:37] <rjharrison_> And it has very nice battery power straight out of the box + good for car or foxing
[16:38] <edmoore> rjharrison_: what's the copy like on it from long range? if there's one thing i notice about it, it's that it doesn't have the sensitivity of the ft-170 or the ft-897 or ic-7000
[16:39] <rjharrison_> ?
[16:39] <rjharrison_> How do you figure that?
[16:39] <edmoore> the spec!
[16:39] <jcoxon> i'll bbl
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[16:40] <edmoore> 0.25uV on 70cm vs the 0.15 of the ft-897
[16:40] <edmoore> so about 3dB difference
[16:40] <rjharrison_> Oh
[16:40] <rjharrison_> Well you can't have everything
[16:40] <edmoore> thought a pre-amp would put that one to rest instantly, actually
[16:40] <rjharrison_> for 350 quid
[16:40] <edmoore> though*
[16:40] <rjharrison_> or a yagi
[16:40] <rjharrison_> ?
[16:41] <edmoore> sure, thought less car friendly :p
[16:41] <edmoore> i remember when we tried to use a handheld scanner for habbing
[16:41] <edmoore> now they are properly deaf
[16:41] <rjharrison_> True but I had no proble this weekend on my mag mount and radio
[16:41] <edmoore> clear as day on the ft-170 but couldn't hear a thing with the scanner
[16:42] <edmoore> sorry, ft-790
[16:42] <edmoore> is what we've been using
[16:42] <edmoore> not ft-170
[16:43] <edmoore> I guess scanners are a different animal
[16:46] <EI5GTB> yea
[16:46] <EI5GTB> designed for spee
[16:46] <EI5GTB> d
[16:46] <EI5GTB> not sensititvity
[16:46] <EI5GTB> and generally they are allot wider.. i.e cover 0 - 1.2 or somthing
[16:47] <EI5GTB> wheras the yaesu might do 0 - 440 but ity will have like 3 different ifs
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[18:21] <fergusnoble> edmoore: about?
[18:21] <edmoore> yes
[18:21] <fergusnoble> edmoore: about?
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[18:22] <edmoore> yes, still
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[18:22] <fergusnoble> edmoore: about?
[18:22] <edmoore> yes!
[18:23] <edmoore> for the 3rd time
[18:23] <fergusnoble> ahh, something is wrong with colloquy again
[18:24] <fergusnoble> look at the schedule for bbc4
[18:24] <edmoore> it's tv porn!!
[18:25] <fergusnoble> programme about putting a telescope underneath a zp
[18:25] <edmoore> i think it's the one we might have already seen...
[18:25] <edmoore> either way, will still def watch
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[18:26] <edmoore> shit, I was going to go to badminton too
[18:26] <edmoore> fergusnoble: bought an eee 901 today
[18:27] <fergusnoble> awesome
[18:27] <edmoore> you might have picked up from logs, but the back pain i had last time totally went this holiday
[18:27] <edmoore> and i think it's from not lugging my mbp everywhere with a shoulder bag
[18:27] <edmoore> last term*
[18:28] <fergusnoble> yeah they are pretty heavy
[18:28] <edmoore> so i think it is money well spent - have you got your new screen yet?
[18:28] <fergusnoble> no, need to wait for student loan
[18:28] <fergusnoble> :)
[18:28] <edmoore> i did my back in working on a set once when i was 16 and it's never quite got better, so i thin i should be kind to it
[18:28] <fergusnoble> maybe you should get a backpack style bag for your mbp?
[18:29] <edmoore> that would help for sure, equally i still often resent just having the bulk of it all with me
[18:29] <fergusnoble> yeah, the eee is good
[18:29] <fergusnoble> for just carrying aroud
[18:30] <edmoore> exactly
[18:30] <fergusnoble> you can forget youve got it with you
[18:30] <edmoore> the times when it would be useful to have a laptop, but i didn't because i just didn't want the mbp around all day
[18:30] <fergusnoble> when you going back up to cam?
[18:30] <edmoore> which happens a lot
[18:30] <edmoore> sat
[18:30] <fergusnoble> ok
[18:30] <edmoore> did henry cc you into the eagle pcb email?
[18:31] <fergusnoble> yeah, not got any reply though
[18:31] <edmoore> no
[18:31] <edmoore> annoying
[18:31] <edmoore> am itching to get going
[18:31] <edmoore> this is the year of getting stuff done
[18:31] <edmoore> or perhaps Getting Stuff Done
[18:32] <edmoore> what do you think about insurance
[18:32] <edmoore> i'm not convinced a number like 7 per flight is good value for money, at all
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[18:58] <Tigga_> oooh - fergusnoble if you're still here - do you happen to have the nova 8 logs anywhere?
[18:58] <fergusnoble> Tigga_: ill have a look
[18:59] <Tigga_> ta
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[19:02] <fergusnoble> Tigga_: its on my other laptop which currently has a broken screen :(
[19:02] <fergusnoble> ive found the nova6 log on our webserver though
[19:02] <fergusnoble> what d'ya need it for?
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[19:08] <Tigga_> was doing some alt-from-photo stuff fergusnoble
[19:08] <Tigga_> nova 6 might do
[19:08] <Tigga_> ta
[19:09] <Tigga_> broken screens suck
[19:09] <Tigga_> mine had a big red line down the middle for a while... but it's mysteriously disappeared
[19:09] <fergusnoble> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/nova6/log.kml
[19:09] <Tigga_> ta
[19:10] <Tigga_> (already had it :P)
[19:11] <fergusnoble> also, this might be useful http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/nova6alttime.csv
[19:11] <edmoore> fergusnoble / Tigga_ : now i have new laptop, i can use old one as a servery thing for my room, which means i will happily loan my linux box to cusf as a server
[19:11] <edmoore> for all this stuff
[19:11] <edmoore> dual core 2.4ghz intel cpu, 4GB ram, 2 x 250gb hdd
[19:12] <akawaka> rwar
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[19:12] <edmoore> it could even do useful things like run prediction software for the various trackers
[19:12] <fergusnoble> or this http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/Nova6%20full%20log.txt
[19:13] <edmoore> exactly
[19:13] <edmoore> and can put samba on it for the neaderthals in cusf
[19:14] <fergusnoble> edmoore: or we can just beat them with a blunt instrument
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[19:15] <edmoore> like their arguements for insurance?
[19:16] <Tigga> fergusnoble: aah - a csv! Lovely :D
[19:16] <Tigga> that's a pretty pretty machine
[19:16] <Tigga> is your laptop better than that?
[19:16] <edmoore> no, but more convenient
[19:16] <edmoore> and runs osx
[19:17] <edmoore> this box would make a better headless server
[19:17] <Tigga> excellent
[19:17] <edmoore> iain can run his martlet CFD monte-carlo's on it that's he's doing without anyone getting upset
[19:17] <Tigga> doesn't he have his own box in the dept?
[19:18] <edmoore> I don't believe so, just the DPO and his laptop
[19:18] <edmoore> neither of which you can easily leave to run uninterrupted for several days
[19:18] <edmoore> that said, it'd be good if he could port the meat and potatoes of it to octave
[19:19] <edmoore> though I can install matlab on it
[19:19] <fergusnoble> Tigga: if you match up the ticks in the csv file with the gps time in a the full log then you should be able to match up an altitude with the time that the photos are tagged with
[19:19] <Tigga> he could probably convince the guy who runs the servers to give him access to run big gridengine jobs
[19:19] <fergusnoble> edmoore: or C for that matter
[19:19] <edmoore> we could make it something of a general server for CUSF that complements the 'shop window' of the main site
[19:20] <edmoore> fergusnoble: that would be a thankless task
[19:20] <edmoore> porting matlab code to c!
[19:20] <fergusnoble> if you want the speed
[19:20] <fergusnoble> youve got to work for it
[19:20] <Tigga> I don't think the nova 6 photos have time-stamps - at least the ones I looked at didn't
[19:20] <edmoore> well this is the thing - if you can wait several days, it's fine
[19:20] <fergusnoble> do the files have creation times?
[19:21] <edmoore> dev.cuspaceflight.co.uk and have the fun shit and the badgerworks wiki and stuff on it
[19:21] <edmoore> anyway
[19:21] <edmoore> gtg
[19:21] <fergusnoble> bye
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[19:21] <Tigga> yeah, but they're all after landing as far as I can tell
[19:22] <Tigga> which is a bit odd.... clock in the camera might have been wonky
[19:22] <Tigga> or that might be the download time
[19:23] <fergusnoble> hmm, maybe the time when they were uploaded to the webserver
[19:23] <Tigga> might be
[19:23] <Tigga> matlab->C isn't too bad if you use mex
[19:23] <fergusnoble> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/list_of_launches
[19:24] <fergusnoble> Tigga: look at natrium42's latest flight
[19:24] <fergusnoble> he has a kml tagged with photos at different altitudes
[19:24] <Tigga> that'll do!
[19:24] <Tigga> I'll take a look
[19:25] <Tigga> good spot
[19:25] <Tigga> hopefully they're high-res enough
[19:25] <fergusnoble> i should think so
[19:25] <fergusnoble> i remember them being really good photos
[19:27] <Tigga> 2048x1536 - should be fine. I'm going to have to hope that he's used similar cameras to ours 'cos the properties of the camera can make a difference
[19:28] <fergusnoble> should prove the concept though
[19:29] <Tigga> aye
[19:40] <Tigga> about 20% off on that photo
[19:40] <Tigga> might see if I can get the camera properties
[19:44] <fergusnoble> ask natrium42 what it was
[19:45] <fergusnoble> Tigga: what kind of percentage error is there in the result?
[19:45] <natrium42> ohai
[19:45] <fergusnoble> i mean, range
[19:46] <Tigga> the expected error range?
[19:46] <natrium42> Tigga, what are you trying to do?
[19:46] <Tigga> calculate the altitude a photo was taken at from the photo (and camera properties)
[19:46] <Tigga> I have something that works for an image I produce myself - trying it with real images now
[19:46] <natrium42> aah, interesting
[19:47] <natrium42> my camera was Canon PowerShot A510
[19:47] <Tigga> aye - I found some details on the page
[19:47] <Tigga> now I'm trying to work out the field of view from those details... and then I'll be away :D
[19:47] <fergusnoble> Tigga: i mean, you said you were 20% off the actual value, but what bounds were on your estimate from the photo?
[19:47] <fergusnoble> bloody engineers :p
[19:48] <fergusnoble> sorry, just my bad asking actually
[19:48] <fergusnoble> and physicsists preoccupation with error bounds
[19:48] <natrium42> Tigga, is there any way to get those properties by photographing some reference pattern?
[19:49] <Tigga> should be pretty low - the main source of error is the field of view, which I'm guessing
[19:49] <Tigga> and that could be a huge error
[19:49] <Tigga> everything else is low I mean
[19:50] <Tigga> natrium42: photographing a sheet with a square grid (of known size) at a known distance would do it
[19:50] <fergusnoble> so you have to match up the horizon?
[19:50] <Tigga> might be able to work it out from the properties you posted up with your photos
[19:50] <Tigga> I have a program where you click on the horizon and it matches a circle to that
[19:50] <Tigga> I ahve to go eat
[19:50] <Tigga> be back in 30...
[19:50] <natrium42> k
[19:50] <fergusnoble> ok, speak in a sec
[19:51] <fergusnoble> natrium42: Tigga is also CUSF btw
[19:51] <natrium42> cool
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[20:32] <Tigga> right... worked out the field of view for that camera... shouldn't make much difference unfortunetly
[20:32] <Tigga> maybe atmospheric distortion is doing something... hmmm
[20:36] <natrium42> i tried to extend the curvature towards a full circle
[20:36] <natrium42> a while back
[20:36] <natrium42> it was pretty hard to determine what the curvature is though...
[20:36] <Tigga> aye - this is part of my problem
[20:37] <Tigga> seems my results are very highly sensitive to the field of view of the camera
[20:38] <Tigga> oh wait... radians
[20:38] <natrium42> full panorama would help
[20:38] <Tigga> now they aren't
[20:38] <natrium42> unfortunately i never tried making snapshot panoramas
[20:38] <Tigga> yeah - a fisheye lens would be lovely
[20:39] <natrium42> my current panorama is stretched out over tens of minutes
[20:39] <Tigga> or an IR photo which might show the horizon better
[20:39] <natrium42> oh wait
[20:39] <Tigga> I think ours is too
[20:39] <natrium42> i have an idea
[20:39] <natrium42> you could just get a full pano from the video :P
[20:39] <natrium42> then count # of pixels in the circle
[20:40] <natrium42> and calculate alt from there
[20:42] <Tigga> sounds like a plan... might be time to roll out the video editting software
[20:42] <Tigga> I might persist with this a bit longer
[20:43] <Tigga> and think about atmospheric distortion and better ways of horizon picking
[20:43] <Tigga> I don't *think* distortion should have much of an effect
[20:43] <natrium42> another way is to find landmarks on the ground
[20:43] <natrium42> and measure distance in pixels
[20:43] <natrium42> i have tried doing that
[20:43] <Tigga> can't guarantee cloudlessness - but I agree
[20:46] <Tigga> a fisheye on an IR camera would make the whole thing a lot easier
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[20:46] <rjharrison> evening all
[20:46] <Tigga> IR wouldn't work for landmarks.... but I imagine it being a lot better for horizoning
[20:46] <natrium42> hi robert
[20:47] <rjharrison> ni natrium42
[20:47] <Tigga> evenin'
[20:47] <rjharrison> I'm going to have a look at my data this evening
[20:47] <rjharrison> Will be using your php hopefully
[20:47] <natrium42> kk
[20:49] <Tigga> what's more, the photos we're actually planning on using this for will be higher altitudes so it should all be a lot more curvy....
[21:03] <fergusnoble> Tigga: for a reasonable guess at the error in the nmber of pixels out your are in the horizon, what error does that translate to in terms of altitude?
[21:04] <Tigga> hold on, I'll just work it out
[21:05] <Tigga> "a reasonable guess" is rather tricky though :P
[21:05] <fergusnoble> well, a pessimistic guess
[21:05] <fergusnoble> take the range from the point where you can be absolutely sure you are too far one side to the point when you can clearly see you have gone too far the other way
[21:07] <EI5GTB> http://hacked.free-bsd.org/funstuff/pics/362.html
[21:07] <EI5GTB> :D
[21:09] <Tigga> fergusnoble: a really crappy guess of the horizon can give +100%, -80%
[21:09] <Tigga> a crisp, high res image really really helps :P
[21:09] <rjharrison> 5.25m/s assent rate
[21:12] <Tigga> I've hacked together a bit of software where you just click on points that you think are on the horizon and it does a circle fit through those points to calculate the radius. It works fine (<2% error) for a 1024x768 image I made myself which shows the view from 100km
[21:12] <Tigga> trying to find a better photo...
[21:12] <Tigga> (not that these photos aren't awesome :P)
[21:22] Nick change: EarlJr_ -> EarlJr
[21:26] <fergusnoble> Tigga: could you use some kind of blurring and then applying a brightness threshold to detect the edge and then do some regression to fit the best circle?
[21:27] <fergusnoble> bbl
[21:27] <fergusnoble> thats quite a bit of work though
[21:28] <Tigga> already got the regression fit working. I tried brightness thresholds with no luck - blurring first might be a plan
[21:33] <Tigga> might try a better fit - could be worth a few percent in the final answer... just gotta port it from matlab
[21:38] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Halt! Hammerzeit!=-"