highaltitude.log.20090106

[00:02] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/hamamatsu/s4111-16r/photodiode-960nm-18-dip/dp/1495584
[00:02] <Laurenceb> looks good for tracking fringes
[00:10] <Laurenceb> 16 channels :P
[00:30] <Laurenceb> cya all
[00:30] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-133-67-102.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "The day microsoft make something that doesnt suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner"
[00:34] Nick change: Bluenarf -> EI5GTB
[00:43] <Xenion> Gute Nacht alle miteinander, angenehme Träume / Goog Night folks - sleep well ! :-)
[00:50] <edmoore> hallam|CFD / gordonjcp a duck is supersonic
[00:51] <edmoore> every time is swims down a like, the flow patterns you see in the water...
[00:51] <edmoore> a lake*
[00:51] <edmoore> you never defined your fluid, so I am right :p
[00:54] <gordonjcp> edmoore: uhm
[00:54] <gordonjcp> the speed of sound in water is even faster than in air
[00:54] <gordonjcp> 1500m/s instead of 330m/s, IIROGPC
[00:54] <gordonjcp> (If I Remember O Grade Physics Correctly)
[00:55] <edmoore> it's slightly tongue in cheek, but it's to do with shock propagation
[00:58] <edmoore> the wake you see coming off a boat being driven along is the same, physically, as the shocks you get off a supersonic object in a more compressible fluid, like air - compare http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/bullet/bullet2.jpg and http://www.apl.com/images/ship_wake.gif
[00:59] <edmoore> gordonjcp: for bedtime reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcritical_flow
[01:00] <edmoore> Gosh, it's bringing all my first year fluids back
[01:00] <edmoore> glad I left it there.
[01:14] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[01:20] EarlJr_ (n=earljr@209-112-218-196-rb1.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net) joined #highaltitude.
[01:27] EarlJr (n=earljr@66-230-110-160-rb1.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[01:40] kc0wys (n=kc0wys@75-130-209-194.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[01:41] <kc0wys> hello all
[01:51] <gordonjcp> kc0wys: hi
[02:25] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[02:43] Nick change: EarlJr_ -> EarlJr
[04:03] akawaka (n=akawaka@66-215-97-198.dhcp.malb.ca.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[04:34] akawaka (n=akawaka@66-215-97-198.dhcp.malb.ca.charter.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[05:29] kc0wys (n=kc0wys@75-130-209-194.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[06:08] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[08:04] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[09:03] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:10] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-133-67-102.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:10] <Laurenceb> hello
[10:11] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[10:27] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.215) joined #highaltitude.
[10:28] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.215) left irc: Client Quit
[10:30] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.215) joined #highaltitude.
[10:30] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.215) left irc: Client Quit
[10:31] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.215) joined #highaltitude.
[10:34] <Laurenceb> hi RocketBoy
[10:34] Xenion (n=robert@p579FC67E.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[10:35] hallam|CFD (n=hallam@78.32.173.150) left irc:
[10:36] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:37] <G8KHW> Yo
[10:37] <rjharrison_> hi
[10:37] <rjharrison_> Is that you steve
[10:38] <Laurenceb> hi Steve
[10:39] Xenion (n=robert@p579FCDEA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:39] <G8KHW> Hi yep me at work
[10:39] <Xenion> Guten Morgen / Good Morning folks :-)
[10:39] <rjharrison_> ahh
[10:56] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) left #highaltitude.
[10:56] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:02] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.215) left irc: "Rooms " iPhone IRC Client " http://rooms.derflash.de"
[11:03] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.215) joined #highaltitude.
[11:04] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:09] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[11:10] <edmoore> yo
[11:10] <Laurenceb> I was looking at fibre optic gyros some more, they seem to usually use a feedback design
[11:10] <Laurenceb> http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/images/PCT-IMAGES/23121998/US9811923_23121998_pub_gex.g4-b.jpg
[11:11] <Laurenceb> wheras I was thinking of something a lot eaiser to build, where fringes are actually projected onto a linear array like that hamhatsu thingy
[11:11] <edmoore> i've seen that diagram before, aye
[11:11] <Laurenceb> so you have a milled alu mounting, with the two ends of the loop passed through a hole in one side
[11:11] <Laurenceb> and epoxied in
[11:12] <Laurenceb> then a laser diode is focussed onto the ends from a slight angle above the normal, and the linear array is mounted just below
[11:12] <Laurenceb> the laser is pulsed on for a 100us or so at ~20mw output power
[11:13] <Laurenceb> then charge integrating amplifers are turned on connected to the array
[11:13] <Laurenceb> to intercept the interferogram from the returning photons
[11:14] <Laurenceb> then you have a very good spi ADC, 24 or even 32 bits, the noise should be very low
[11:14] <Laurenceb> and you fit an interferogram to the data
[11:17] <Laurenceb> the only tricky bit is that the laser has to come in above the normal, and still couple into the fibre, I'm not sure how hard that is
[11:19] <Laurenceb> what do you think?
[11:20] <edmoore> it sounds conceptually sound
[11:20] <edmoore> I worry though if I spent a load of time working on it, there'd be too many little odds and sods and not enough time/money to iterate through designs and configuration to isolate problems and stuff
[11:21] <Laurenceb> with convensional designs, it only looks practical to me if you use off the shelf lab optics
[11:21] <Laurenceb> and thats cumbersome/expensive
[11:24] <rjharrison_> may replacemment lassen IQ has arrived to replace the one that was meant to have got lost last w/e
[11:24] <rjharrison_> Hey ho at least I have a couple of spares now
[11:26] <Laurenceb> they are nice :P
[11:27] <Laurenceb> tho I managed to screw one up by operating it inside for several hours with no lock
[11:28] <Laurenceb> had to remove the backup battery then sit outside for half an hour in the freezing cold to fix it :-/
[11:40] <edmoore> you had to sit with it?
[11:41] <EI5GTB> and nurse it..
[11:41] <EI5GTB> morning guys
[11:41] <edmoore> morning
[11:41] <Laurenceb> well otherwise it'd be pinched
[11:42] <edmoore> singing a lullaby to the RAM
[11:42] <EI5GTB> :P
[11:43] <edmoore> 'go to sleeeeep, empty yourseeeelf, stop corruuuptiiing my processoooor, i want a lock, not a ram block, and i'd like it please from yooooou'
[11:43] <EI5GTB> lol
[11:43] <EI5GTB> im presuming this was a gps module..?
[11:44] <edmoore> uhuh
[11:44] <EI5GTB> i see
[11:50] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.215) left irc: "Rooms " iPhone IRC Client " http://rooms.derflash.de"
[12:25] <rjharrison_> lol
[12:26] <rjharrison_> I like the lullaby
[12:26] <rjharrison_> off to farnell to collect order
[12:26] <edmoore> g'luck
[12:28] <Laurenceb> neat living close like that
[12:28] <edmoore> very!
[12:28] <edmoore> very unfair
[12:30] <Laurenceb> farnell is a bit of a ripoff
[12:30] <Laurenceb> but so are all these places
[12:32] <edmoore> such convenience always comes at a premius
[12:32] <edmoore> premium*
[12:33] <edmoore> the alternative is waiting 6 weeks for a shipment from china
[12:34] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:35] <Laurenceb> any idea if its remotely possible to but Km of single mode fibre?
[12:36] <Laurenceb> I'm obsessed with this idea now
[12:36] <edmoore> haha, I've infected you, sorry
[12:36] <edmoore> i would ahve thought so, yes
[12:37] <edmoore> got any friends in oxford or surrey photonics?
[12:37] <Laurenceb> not really
[12:37] <Laurenceb> never went for that side of things
[12:38] <Laurenceb> everyone sells the encapsulated cable
[12:38] <Laurenceb> not the "raw" fibre
[12:41] <rjharrison_> anyone know what thosse idc connectors for ribon cable are called
[12:41] <Laurenceb> just idc ?
[12:41] <Laurenceb> toby.co.uk are good for cable stuff
[12:41] <rjharrison_> Humm ok i'll keep searching the farnell DB
[12:42] <edmoore> they'lll have it, jsut finding it is the trick
[12:43] <Laurenceb> yeah farnell will stock it
[12:43] <Laurenceb> I use toby as searching through farnell for connectors is such a pain
[12:44] <Laurenceb> edmoore: I'm not sure this is correct, but with that hamahatsu sensor, I get a SNR of over 100dB
[12:44] <edmoore> well, that's rather good
[12:44] <Laurenceb> so if you "only" want something a lot better than MEMS, you can get away with less fibre
[12:44] <Laurenceb> maybe a Km or so
[12:45] <Laurenceb> unfortunatley you really need a 32bit ADC to fully capture the interferogram
[12:46] <Laurenceb> without quantisation issues
[12:48] <Laurenceb> interestingly if you use a large loop it works better
[12:53] <Laurenceb> http://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/acatalog/Loose_Tube_OS1_Cable.html
[12:53] <Laurenceb> you could strip that down for ~£150 per gyro
[12:55] <Laurenceb> or maybe as little as £100 if you got the 24 core
[12:57] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) left irc:
[13:04] <Laurenceb> gtg
[13:04] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-133-67-102.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "The day microsoft make something that doesnt suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner"
[13:04] kc0wys (n=kc0wys@75-130-209-194.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:04] <edmoore> hi kc0wys
[13:04] <edmoore> how's it going?
[13:32] kc0wys (n=kc0wys@75-130-209-194.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[13:35] <EI5GTB> hmm... im playing with the idea of posting a gps transmitter..
[13:35] <EI5GTB> just for the fun, to see where it goes, and if it would get a sigfnal
[13:46] <edmoore> posting?
[14:06] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[14:48] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.222) joined #highaltitude.
[14:49] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.222) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[14:50] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.222) joined #highaltitude.
[14:51] G8KHW (n=RocketBo@82.132.136.222) left irc: Client Quit
[15:25] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:34] fergusnoble (n=fergusno@88-106-226-133.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:45] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:26] bfirsh (n=ben@host-137-205-75-156.res.warwick.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:42] <natrium42> edmoire
[16:48] <edmoore> natriim42:
[16:49] <edmoore> hello
[16:50] <edmoore> natrium42
[16:50] <edmoore> should probably spell it right so you get a ping
[16:50] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-158-31-172.range86-158.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:51] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[16:52] <jcoxon> afternoon
[16:53] <jcoxon> indeed i have
[16:53] <jcoxon> edmoore, i've published them on my wiki
[16:53] <edmoore> remind me what I asked?
[16:53] <jcoxon> full logs
[16:53] <edmoore> oh, the full logs
[16:53] <edmoore> cool
[16:54] <edmoore> i recall about 3 blackouts which cleared after 5-10 mins
[16:54] <edmoore> on the telem
[16:54] <edmoore> was just wondering if they could be plotted as a function of altitude
[16:54] <edmoore> and if it's cos of the coxon moxon nulls
[16:55] <edmoore> they could have been someone else retuning the radio though
[16:55] <jcoxon> the only thing is that i'm in a city as well
[16:55] <jcoxon> lots of things in teh way
[16:55] <edmoore> oh was it london?
[16:55] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:55] <edmoore> i thought it was suffolk
[16:55] <edmoore> silly me
[16:55] <natrium42> nice, my dc/dc converters are out for delivery :)
[16:55] <edmoore> do you know if rob's got as far as a kml?
[16:55] <edmoore> natrium42: cool :)
[16:56] <edmoore> excitement builds
[16:56] <rjharrison_> natrium42 has
[16:56] <edmoore> hi rjharrison_
[16:56] <rjharrison_> hi edmoore
[16:56] <edmoore> natrium42: do you have a link to the kml?
[16:56] <rjharrison_> space near us
[16:56] <rjharrison_> tracker
[16:57] <natrium42> "View in Google Earth" link
[16:57] <natrium42> http://spacenear.us/tracker/track.kml
[16:57] <edmoore> awesome
[16:58] <natrium42> last point seems to have wrong alt, btw
[16:58] <natrium42> it's the same alt as the previous point
[16:58] <edmoore> cool
[16:59] <edmoore> as a random asside, for scripts 'n' that, it'd be good if the kml-builder script could put the original whole telem string as a comment to each kml line
[16:59] <edmoore> just for interest's sake
[16:59] <jcoxon> hmmmm Make Faire in Newcastle
[17:01] <natrium42> hmm, it's just that the original string is never passed to the tracker
[17:01] <edmoore> natrium42: good point
[17:01] <edmoore> nvm
[17:01] <natrium42> but it is possible to pass it, of course
[17:01] <edmoore> gosh, look at that path
[17:01] <edmoore> you're living on borrowed karma, rjharrison_ :p
[17:01] <natrium42> :)
[17:02] <natrium42> rjharrison_, did you try playing lottery?
[17:02] <jcoxon> guys, shall we take a stall to the Make Faire?
[17:02] <jcoxon> could have a cam launch tracked online
[17:03] <natrium42> jcoxon, when is it?
[17:03] <jcoxon> march 14-15th
[17:03] <edmoore> term finished 11th for me
[17:04] <edmoore> that could either a) work well therefore or b) be disastrously up to my neck in end-of-term deadlines
[17:04] <jcoxon> well there could be a few of us
[17:05] <jcoxon> some planning ahead would mean no big rush just before
[17:05] <jcoxon> something perhaps with sstv
[17:06] <edmoore> sstv = cool
[17:08] <jcoxon> indeed
[17:08] <edmoore> sorry, that wasn't very helpful
[17:08] <jcoxon> perhaps an sstv launch from cam with online stuff + a throw away launch into the sea from newcastle
[17:09] <edmoore> we might be able to do something from cam
[17:11] <jcoxon> certainly something to think about
[17:11] <jcoxon> i'd be keen to go alone
[17:11] <jcoxon> along*
[17:11] <jcoxon> hehe not alone
[17:11] <edmoore> yeah
[17:11] <edmoore> i think I'm about to get an eeepc
[17:11] <jcoxon> also sent an email to the "Ballooning" list about trans attempts
[17:11] <jcoxon> bill brown is planning one relatively soon
[17:12] <edmoore> it occured to me at gym yesterday how much better my back feels this holiday, and the main thing is that I've not been lugging a macbook pro around in a shoulder bag all day every day
[17:12] <edmoore> jcoxon: awesome - cc us in?
[17:12] <jcoxon> i'll forward his reply
[17:15] <rjharrison_> thanks for the email james
[17:15] <edmoore> that was quick
[17:16] <jcoxon> oh i emailed him yesterday
[17:16] <jcoxon> its quite a well used list
[17:16] <edmoore> hellschreiber looks cool
[17:17] <jcoxon> dominoEX is also interesting
[17:17] <rjharrison_> hehe just read the comments re the track
[17:17] <rjharrison_> Yep the next on is plop in the sea
[17:17] <rjharrison_> one
[17:17] <edmoore> mfsk16 is easy to code, eh?
[17:18] <rjharrison_> I thought I would try for the 36k in three weeks time
[17:18] <rjharrison_> With cam of course
[17:20] <jcoxon> 36K with a cam, will be tough
[17:22] <edmoore> tough = good
[17:22] <edmoore> again, unhelpful, sorry
[17:25] <rjharrison_> tough but we need more england
[17:25] <rjharrison_> I'm getting a boat ready for the next lauch
[17:25] <edmoore> :)
[17:26] <jcoxon> haha
[17:27] <rjharrison_> Indeed I'm going to use the weather services of master coxon who has shown rather unbelivable success in predictions recently
[17:27] <rjharrison_> ahh you're there
[17:27] <natrium42> it's gonna rain
[17:27] <natrium42> fyi
[17:27] <rjharrison_> In 3 weeks time>
[17:27] <rjharrison_> ?
[17:27] <natrium42> yes\
[17:27] <natrium42> it's england
[17:27] <rjharrison_> true
[17:28] <natrium42> :)
[17:28] <jcoxon> oh i just cheat and use wyoming
[17:28] <jcoxon> plus a bit of wunderground to make sure
[17:30] <rjharrison_> it uncanny though
[17:31] <jcoxon> i've also done a fair amount of launches
[17:31] <edmoore> it's not uncanny, it's GFS :)
[17:31] Action: jcoxon love hysplit now
[17:31] <jcoxon> loves*
[17:32] <edmoore> our prediction software litterally jsut does what the gfs says - it linearly interpolates between predictions at time x and time x + 3hrs (the predictions are every three hours) and just does basic numeric integration from that
[17:32] <edmoore> and it is predicting things now to a few hundred meters
[17:33] <edmoore> GFS is amazing given actually how little and how coarse the avilable data they have is
[17:35] <edmoore> i think the only difference between us and wyoming is that they don't let you adjust ascent and descent rates
[17:35] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:35] <edmoore> we could try and integrate it with the trackers to do dynamic landing predict updates
[17:36] <edmoore> you'd have to give it definitely valid data though otherwise it'll get most upset :)
[17:36] <edmoore> i'm not sure what it would have made of jumping to nigeria
[17:37] <rjharrison_> lol
[17:37] <rjharrison_> I'v fixed that bugger now
[17:38] EI5GTB (n=Paul@apollo.paulsnet.org) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[17:38] <edmoore> a ukhas svn might be good
[17:38] <natrium42> edmoore, i can integrate it if you send me teh codez
[17:38] <natrium42> oh
[17:38] <natrium42> svn is fine
[17:39] <edmoore> well it seems everyone is adding bits and bobs are there are several branches of your original tracker
[17:39] <edmoore> so it'd be good to try and keep tabs of what's working best, if people are happy to share
[17:39] <natrium42> yeah
[17:39] <natrium42> i agree
[17:39] <rjharrison_> natrium42's is the best
[17:39] <rjharrison_> I have just tinkered with the code to suit me
[17:39] <jcoxon> indeed i agree, natrium's is the best
[17:40] <jcoxon> rjharrison_, is it possible to direct our DL server to natrium42's tracker?
[17:40] <rjharrison_> The listener will plug directly into natrium42's code
[17:40] <rjharrison_> yep
[17:40] <rjharrison_> I would like to keep a local copy for test purposes
[17:40] <edmoore> hence the joy of svn
[17:40] <rjharrison_> But I would like the latest version
[17:41] Action: natrium42 is going to add a proper admin interface soonish
[17:41] <rjharrison_> cool
[17:43] <rjharrison_> BTW can we put the listener php on your site too and then we can potentially log to both
[17:45] <natrium42> sure
[17:46] <edmoore> listener is a nice thing for sanity checking
[17:46] <jcoxon> yeah and in the field
[17:46] <jcoxon> as the map is too much data
[17:46] <edmoore> in the longer run, logging the geographical location of listening posts would be good too
[17:46] <edmoore> to get some useful data of whose can hear what from where and when
[17:47] <jcoxon> i was think a sort of registrtion
[17:47] <jcoxon> so M6JCX registers and gives rough location/gps coords
[17:47] <edmoore> maybe type of antenna and radio too
[17:47] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:47] <edmoore> a profile page :)
[17:47] <rjharrison_> BTW do you guys know about QRZ .com
[17:47] <edmoore> yep
[17:48] <jcoxon> i want to have graphs of lines logged
[17:48] <edmoore> jcoxon: absolutely
[17:48] <edmoore> perfect
[17:48] <jcoxon> make it a sort of game
[17:48] <edmoore> gordonjcp: are you about?
[17:49] <rjharrison_> I'm going to put a little more polish on the tracker and do some testing driving aound to and from work
[17:49] <rjharrison_> Could do with some testing in camb too at some point espcally over that silly line
[17:49] <edmoore> well, we're around
[17:49] <edmoore> I'm back on fri
[17:50] <rjharrison_> i'll be down for a launch soon
[17:50] <edmoore> we fired a few tentative emails about sunday
[17:50] <rjharrison_> This sunday
[17:50] <edmoore> among CUSF
[17:50] <edmoore> yeah
[17:50] <rjharrison_> CUSF launch to get the record back :)
[17:50] <edmoore> GFS is still a bit wooly this far out but it looks promising
[17:51] <edmoore> oh we'll get the record back, don't worry :p
[17:51] <rjharrison_> Hey I'm counting balloon type here too
[17:51] <rjharrison_> You can't wheel out your zp and do 50k
[17:51] <edmoore> never said nuthin about that in the rules :p
[17:52] <rjharrison_> or I'm sending my tracker off to nasa for a test launch in space !!!
[17:52] <edmoore> though there's a lot more mileage in the 1.5kg
[17:52] <rjharrison_> You can pick it up as it orbits around
[17:52] <edmoore> you had a 5m/s ascent, as you know, which is fast
[17:52] <edmoore> luck it wasn't any slower though!
[17:53] <rjharrison_> Yep I tried to hold james off the helium
[17:53] <rjharrison_> But I'm glad he put so much in
[17:53] <rjharrison_> I was going with 100g lift
[17:53] <edmoore> he knows is HABbing, that child
[17:53] <rjharrison_> In the end we ended up at about 1.2
[17:53] <gordonjcp> edmoore: hello
[17:53] <edmoore> hope he's not listening though or it'll feed the ego
[17:53] <edmoore> gordonjcp: can I ask you an antenna related question?
[17:54] <gordonjcp> yes, of course
[17:54] <rjharrison_> It was going to be a sacrificial launch
[17:54] <edmoore> so I have a dual 70cm/2m roof mount antenna
[17:54] <edmoore> just a vertical
[17:54] <rjharrison_> magmount?
[17:54] <edmoore> yeah
[17:55] <edmoore> and I think it's therefore a 5/8 for 70cm
[17:55] <rjharrison_> sil clip is the other option
[17:55] <rjharrison_> yep
[17:55] <gordonjcp> sounds about right
[17:55] <edmoore> which should give me a higher gain... but is it more out towards the horizon?
[17:55] <rjharrison_> Edmore I had that this weekend and it work perfect for tracking
[17:55] <gordonjcp> edmoore: yes
[17:56] <gordonjcp> it's a vertical, so its radiation pattern will be somewhat like a flattened doughnut
[17:56] <rjharrison_> I only got the yagi out for locating
[17:56] <edmoore> rjharrison_: sure, but you were some distance from it usually - i'm worried about loosing gain relative to a 1/4 wave when it's at a much higher angle
[17:56] <rjharrison_> I don't think you'll have any problem at all
[17:57] <edmoore> if i loose nothing relative to a 1/4 wave, that doesn't bother me, but if it's actually worse, it'd be interesting just to know
[17:57] <gordonjcp> edmoore: you won't lose much compared to a 1/4 wave
[17:57] <edmoore> if you ever drive right underneath a hab, as we've done, with a roof whip, it basically all goes quiet
[17:57] <gordonjcp> although you could easily cut yourself a quarter-wave just to see
[17:57] <edmoore> indeed
[17:57] <gordonjcp> try making a lindenblad
[17:57] <edmoore> I probably won't bother though
[17:57] <gordonjcp> although they have a dead spot right above
[17:58] <edmoore> well the balloon as a null directly below so I guess the moral is to keep some distance
[17:58] <edmoore> oh I read about them
[17:59] <edmoore> it would be worth building just for the coolness value
[17:59] <gordonjcp> edmoore: seriously, a 1/4 wave whip for 70cm is basically a bit of brazing rod 170mm long
[17:59] <gordonjcp> you could easily just swap it onto the mount
[17:59] <edmoore> i know, we've build loads
[17:59] <gordonjcp> pick some rod that's the same thickness as the existing antenna rod
[18:00] <edmoore> just not sure i want to throw another pl259 at it - they're about £.50 each
[18:00] <edmoore> this is to interface to my mag mount, at any rate
[18:00] <edmoore> all i mean is, if the 5/8 is ballpark as good, then i won't bother
[18:01] <gordonjcp> edmoore: isn't the dual-band on a sort of a clamp that you slacken with an allen key?
[18:01] <gordonjcp> so you can just change the rod
[18:02] <edmoore> that's the fella
[18:02] <edmoore> and you can tilt it too
[18:02] <edmoore> not sure why you'd want to...
[18:03] <gordonjcp> edmoore: because you stuck it to the sloping back of your car tailgate
[18:04] <edmoore> good answer!
[18:05] <rjharrison_> Just tilt the bloody antenna if your underneath the balloon
[18:06] <rjharrison_> Surly that would work
[18:07] <rjharrison_> Just put it on a sloping part of the car. The bonnet may give enough of a tilt if you're that perfect underneath it
[18:09] <edmoore> that'd help yeah, although the verticals on the balloon don't radiate down either, in theory
[18:09] <edmoore> i guess yagi is the solution
[18:09] <edmoore> 15dB of Gain into the nullish belly of the beast
[18:11] <rjharrison_> I struggle to see how you can maintain such a utopian position so as not to hear the payload. The antenna will moving the pay load will be moving and you will be moving surly all that combined is not going to end up in the perfect total loss of signal situation?
[18:12] <rjharrison_> And if it does it can only be for a few seconds ?
[18:12] <gordonjcp> rjharrison_: putting it on the bonnet also puts it close to all the ignition hash
[18:13] <gordonjcp> and a vertical antenna has quite a broad null directly above
[18:13] <rjharrison_> OK i give up please let me know if you have a problem L)
[18:13] <rjharrison_> :)
[18:14] <edmoore> it'll pass, it'll be more than a few seconds though. if you consider that you've got, say, a 15 degree cone down beneath the vertical that you've got very few dBs, and it's 30km above you, that'll take some amount of time to pass over you. It sometimes happens to us and we just get out the yagi and it's fine. I'm interested in checking now that the 5/8 won't make that into a more common problem
[18:14] <rjharrison_> I'm no expert quite the opposite but I would be very surprised if you loose any data other than that caused by burst or below 1000m
[18:14] <edmoore> but it sounds like it won't so panic over
[18:15] bfirsh (n=ben@host-137-205-75-156.res.warwick.ac.uk) left irc:
[18:15] <edmoore> well if it's 30km up and more or less above you, you can loose it if you're listening with a vertical too. it's just the way of things
[18:15] <rjharrison_> esp if you're in the vacinity
[18:15] <edmoore> your blind spot is pointed towards its dark spot
[18:16] <jcoxon> this will be interesting: http://www.webx.dk/bal/
[18:16] <rjharrison_> Yep but don't the signals bounce about a bit?
[18:16] <jcoxon> a launch from denmark
[18:16] <edmoore> sure if it's 2 or 3km up, it's less of an issue - you've got about 100 times more power coming to you
[18:17] <edmoore> (30km/3km)^2
[18:17] <edmoore> in east anglia there's not that much to bounce off :)
[18:18] <edmoore> it's also, you'll find, very very much more noticible on a cloudy or humid day
[18:18] <edmoore> that makes a big old difference
[18:19] <edmoore> on a clear day we've had 300baud rtty from 500km with dropping a single bit. on a really humid day in summer we were dropping stuff occassionally from about 100km linear distance
[18:21] <edmoore> so as a for-instance. we find an amazingly calm day and go for the alt record - we take a 3kg balloon and send a payload up to 40km. it goes almost straight up. I'd be willing to bet you'd hear it a lot better in leeds than we would directly underneath it
[18:21] <rjharrison_> Cool I'll look forward to logging the data for you :)
[18:21] <edmoore> ta :)
[18:22] <rjharrison_> Right I need to head home. Will one of you guys be happy to use the listener if you launch this w/e
[18:22] <rjharrison_> It would just run in the background
[18:22] <rjharrison_> shouldn't effect anything
[18:23] <rjharrison_> Ahh but you need internet access
[18:23] <rjharrison_> It works on all os'es
[18:26] <rjharrison_> s u later
[18:26] <rjharrison_> c u
[18:26] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) left irc:
[18:29] Bluenarf (n=Paul@apollo.paulsnet.org) joined #highaltitude.
[18:37] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:41] Nick change: Bluenarf -> EI5GTB
[18:44] <natrium42> maybe each marker in the map would have a list of stations which received that location
[18:45] <natrium42> and a list of all stations on the side somewhere
[18:52] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-158-31-172.range86-158.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[19:00] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[19:19] <edmoore> natrium42: cool idea
[19:19] <edmoore> a little something to thin out the markers would be good too
[19:20] <edmoore> so just have an option which has just the trace and a marker for the latest report
[20:00] bfirsh (n=ben@host-137-205-75-156.res.warwick.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[20:04] bfirsh (n=ben@host-137-205-75-156.res.warwick.ac.uk) left irc: Client Quit
[20:28] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:48] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[20:49] <rjharrison> back
[20:58] <edmoore> yo
[20:58] <rjharrison> Soldering a data cable
[20:58] <rjharrison> You should do this too ed
[20:58] <edmoore> for who?
[20:58] <edmoore> what, even
[20:58] <rjharrison> Radio
[20:59] <rjharrison> Data port to 3.5mm jack
[20:59] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) left irc:
[20:59] <rjharrison> You can then monitor the audio or turn vol down as output from data port is set
[20:59] <rjharrison> to a single volume
[21:00] <edmoore> I'm a bit lost
[21:00] <edmoore> is this for remote tracking stations?
[21:00] <rjharrison> Saves having to unplug to to listen to the rtty
[21:00] <edmoore> we just feed it through laptop speakers :)
[21:00] <rjharrison> With truetty?
[21:01] <edmoore> don't use truetty
[21:01] <rjharrison> ahh U might be ok then
[21:01] <edmoore> fergus and I are *nixers
[21:01] <rjharrison> I'm using that flidi or what ever
[21:02] <rjharrison> I just understand the radio levels better than the pc put
[21:02] <rjharrison> pc output
[21:02] <edmoore> fergus has developed an OS rtty decoder into a pretty smart bit of software with nice features like freq tracking
[21:02] <rjharrison> ooh
[21:02] <rjharrison> nice
[21:02] <edmoore> so that now plugs into the map tracking software
[21:03] <edmoore> without needing fiddling with
[21:05] <edmoore> i'm going to knock up a cable to control the radio over serial though
[21:09] <rjharrison> cooleo
[21:11] <rjharrison> Do you think one of cusf would have a go with the listener software running if you launch this w/e
[21:11] <edmoore> we've got two radios now so it's possible
[21:13] <edmoore> the only issue would be that my icom probably won't be 'mobile' (different to car-mounted) by this weekend (packing, among other things, to do) and I don't want to chase with it, but we'll need the yaesu just incase we do have to go mobile and treck out after it
[21:13] <rjharrison> Only needs python and fldigi running to work should affect any other software running
[21:13] <edmoore> sorry, I categorically *do* want to chase with the icom
[21:14] <rjharrison> hehe
[21:14] <rjharrison> thought that was odd
[21:15] <edmoore> what radio did you have waiting in leeds listening for your last launch?
[21:16] <rjharrison> ft 897d :D
[21:16] <rjharrison> new toy
[21:16] <edmoore> i wondered! very sensitive
[21:16] <edmoore> how are you finding it? it does look pretty yum
[21:16] <edmoore> did you get batt pack with it?
[21:16] <rjharrison> Very + it can be bat pack
[21:17] <rjharrison> no I went for integrated mains unit
[21:17] <rjharrison> Can swap easy
[21:17] <rjharrison> Will get bats for the summer
[21:17] <rjharrison> when we can set up a tent for base
[21:17] <edmoore> nice. I'm basically going to have to build a batt pack for the icom. not really sure what chemistry though.
[21:17] <edmoore> will just use an old SLA till I figure out what's better
[21:18] <rjharrison> I have to say that is what pused me to the yaesu
[21:18] <rjharrison> Pluss I already knew how to op a yaesu
[21:19] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Halt! Hammerzeit!=-"
[21:21] <edmoore> fuzzylugnuts made a really nice batt pack up for his yeasu with some lovely cells
[21:21] <edmoore> i forget what they were though
[21:22] <rjharrison> my 817 already has a 4hr pack
[21:22] <rjharrison> + car adapter
[21:22] <rjharrison> So i'm fine with that
[21:22] <rjharrison> If I go out on the summits i may make a pack
[21:23] <edmoore> http://www.atbatt.com/product/3500.asp
[21:23] <edmoore> 6 of them would do the trick
[22:03] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc:
[22:09] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-133-67-102.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:09] <Laurenceb> hello
[22:09] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[22:10] <Laurenceb> edmoore: did you get that link this morning?
[22:10] <edmoore> which?
[22:10] <Laurenceb> http://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/acatalog/Loose_Tube_OS1_Cable.html
[22:11] <Laurenceb> £100 for 2.4Km :D
[22:12] <edmoore> oh yeah
[22:12] <edmoore> careful though
[22:13] <edmoore> apparently the worst thing you can do, on a par with deliberately stabbing yourself with a knife, if to stab yourself with thin glass fibre
[22:13] <edmoore> about 1cm will go right into your finger, then will break off
[22:13] <edmoore> it will be stuck in there and cause huge damage
[22:13] <edmoore> it's a no-joke occupational hazard
[22:15] <Laurenceb> ouch
[22:15] <Laurenceb> I've never muched about with it, but I've seen people splicing it and connencting up splitters ect
[22:15] <Laurenceb> doesnt look too hard to work with
[22:16] <Laurenceb> as I understand it the state of the art is MEOS ICs for the optics
[22:16] <Laurenceb> or whatever you call optical MEMS
[22:18] <Laurenceb> the electro optic cell design is conceptually nicer than the interferometric design I came up with
[22:19] <Laurenceb> and should be a lot better performance wise, as you dont have to worry about the alu frame shifting, but... you need to make/buy the optics
[22:19] <edmoore> a non starter probably
[22:20] <Laurenceb> yeah, the non wafer based stuff uses very high voltages
[22:20] <Laurenceb> but you can get enough fibre at least :P
[22:21] <Laurenceb> "just" needs some clever firmware to fit a interferogram taking account of laser output power fluctuations, differing linear array element sensitivities ect
[22:22] <Laurenceb> hmm to go with the fibre optic gyros there really needs to be some groovy accelerometers
[22:24] <edmoore> star tracker :)
[22:24] Action: Laurenceb contemptates hovering an atom in a small chamber
[22:24] <Laurenceb> kind of like an ion trap... but using it as an accellerometer
[22:24] <edmoore> my concept would be a gyro/accel/compass system to point you at the right 1 degree box of sky
[22:25] <Laurenceb> do you really need fibre optic gyros?
[22:25] <edmoore> then a star tracker + FOG to keep you good to, say, 30 arc secs
[22:25] <edmoore> probably not
[22:25] <Laurenceb> I got about 1 degree accuracy with a sparkfun 5DOF IMU
[22:25] <Laurenceb> and that matlab code on the wiki
[22:25] <edmoore> indeed - it's easily achievable with mems
[22:27] <Laurenceb> MEMS accels are pretty good
[22:27] <akawaka> mems?
[22:28] <Laurenceb> micro electro mechanical systems
[22:28] <Laurenceb> omg http://www.eclipseaudioservices.co.uk/extras/helicopter.html
[22:28] <Laurenceb> I dont believe it
[22:28] Action: Laurenceb notes use of mlx90609
[22:29] <Laurenceb> ok probably does work :P
[22:30] <edmoore> :)
[22:30] <Laurenceb> the little GUI widget in processing is neat
[22:30] <akawaka> neat
[22:32] <Laurenceb> looks like its not finished yet
[22:39] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:44] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[22:44] <edmoore> hi rjharrison
[22:45] <rjharrison> Back
[22:45] <rjharrison> WAFN
[22:45] <rjharrison> What a fucking nightmare
[22:46] <rjharrison> :)
[22:46] <Xenion> rof
[22:46] <Xenion> WAFN :D
[22:46] <Xenion> :-)
[22:46] <rjharrison> The bloddy fldigi does not like constant rtty
[22:46] <rjharrison> I thought it was my new data cable for the last 30 mins
[22:46] <rjharrison> TrueTTY was happy
[22:47] <edmoore> constant rtty?
[22:47] <edmoore> oh I see
[22:47] <rjharrison> Changed every setting and then connected the temp sensor and hey presto it works again
[22:47] <rjharrison> The temp sensor causes a .1sec delay as it aquires the data
[22:48] <rjharrison> How likely are you to launch this w/e?
[22:48] <edmoore> not sure
[22:48] <edmoore> it's not my call alone
[22:48] <rjharrison> Excluding the weather
[22:49] <edmoore> truthfully, we're not all back so i'm not sure if it'll happen
[22:51] <Laurenceb> interesting
[22:52] <rjharrison> Ok well I'l be listening if you do
[22:53] <edmoore> awesome
[22:53] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) left irc:
[22:54] <rjharrison> I'm hoping we will manage a few more launches this year
[22:55] <rjharrison> I'm planning avout 6 this yeatr
[22:55] <rjharrison> year
[22:55] <rjharrison> Sooner or later we will have an event
[22:55] <rjharrison> Ie an interesting landing
[22:59] kc0wys (n=kc0wys@75-130-209-194.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:00] <edmoore> interesting?
[23:00] <edmoore> define
[23:03] <rjharrison> m25 stanstead raf
[23:04] <edmoore> :)
[23:04] <edmoore> we've had our close call, don't really talk about it
[23:04] <edmoore> suffice to say we're better nowadays :)
[23:06] smealum (n=smealum@smea.servebeer.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:17] <kc0wys> hi
[23:18] <edmoore> hi kc0wys - how're things?
[23:18] <kc0wys> pretty good
[23:19] <kc0wys> i'm updating the webpage about my project currently
[23:19] <edmoore> cool - shout when it's up
[23:19] <edmoore> will take a look
[23:19] <kc0wys> ok
[23:19] <edmoore> rjharrison: maybe one to watch - there's a website about hamradio apps tweaked/ported/reviewed for use with an eeepc
[23:20] <edmoore> bit sparse at the moment but may grow - http://www.oz9aec.net/index.php/eeeham
[23:20] <rjharrison> Cool
[23:21] <edmoore> i think I'm going to get an eee tomorrow - I noticed how much less pain there is in my back this holiday, and it correlates with not logging my macbook pro around to and from and around the engineering department every day during term
[23:22] <edmoore> lugging*
[23:23] <rjharrison> I love mine
[23:23] <rjharrison> I brought all the guys one at work
[23:25] <edmoore> they must have been pleased!
[23:26] <rjharrison> Yep they don't get that much use to be fair. Mine gets used though
[23:26] <edmoore> I am looking forward to it. There are loads of times i think it'll be useful to have a laptop but just can't face lugging the mbp
[23:26] <rjharrison> Will get used more if I get the rtty working on it
[23:27] <Laurenceb> I was just looking at accels, the nebula guy has got it right
[23:27] <rjharrison> Would you mind having quick glance over my eagle project once I have made the board
[23:28] <Laurenceb> you can do orbit insertion to within < 1Km error
[23:28] <edmoore> no probs at all
[23:28] <Laurenceb> coasting on an accel after the gps locks you out
[23:28] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: ok
[23:28] <Laurenceb> what is it?
[23:28] <rjharrison> Icarus SMD
[23:28] <rjharrison> :)
[23:29] <rjharrison> Well will be hope to have a go at it this w/e
[23:29] <rjharrison> Will read up on sparkfun
[23:29] <Laurenceb> cool
[23:29] <Laurenceb> atmega 168 ?
[23:30] <rjharrison> Will be atm atmega8
[23:30] <Laurenceb> I see
[23:32] <edmoore> guys we should do this this year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmxFcEYz7vg
[23:44] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[23:57] <kc0wys> that's awesome :)
[00:00] --- Wed Jan 7 2009