highaltitude.log.20090104

[00:17] <Laurenceb> I'm off, cya all
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[08:10] <rjharrison_home> boo
[08:10] <rjharrison_home> who's up
[08:11] Nick change: rjharrison_home -> rjharrison
[08:56] <jcoxon> morning rjharrison
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[09:36] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:36] <jcoxon> anyone around?
[09:39] <jcoxon> interesting article: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/May/25/ups-and-downs/
[09:39] <jcoxon> might not be a spirit of knoxville in 2008
[09:39] <jcoxon> 2009*
[09:39] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[09:54] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: how did the temperature sensor work out?
[09:54] <Laurenceb> any data?
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[10:11] <edmoore> morning all
[10:11] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[10:12] <edmoore> jcoxon: s'up
[10:12] <edmoore> hi EarlJr
[10:12] <jcoxon> sorry i didn't reply last night, left my laptop on
[10:12] <edmoore> np
[10:12] <edmoore> i do that all the time
[10:12] <edmoore> excitedly went to curry's to get a 3.5mm jack to jack
[10:12] <jcoxon> hehe, 24hrs late
[10:12] <jcoxon> haha
[10:13] <edmoore> this was yesterday afternoon
[10:13] <jcoxon> oh right
[10:13] <edmoore> and.... no way!
[10:13] <edmoore> £14.99. crazy
[10:13] <jcoxon> wow
[10:13] <jcoxon> they rely on customers like you who need a 3.5mm jack asap to track a balloon
[10:14] <edmoore> it's a growing markt
[10:15] <jcoxon> indeed
[10:15] <jcoxon> so icom working to full specs?
[10:15] <edmoore> yep!
[10:15] <jcoxon> amazing
[10:15] <jcoxon> so very jealous
[10:15] <edmoore> onboard rtty decoding is baudot only, though
[10:15] <jcoxon> my student loan came in yesterday...
[10:16] <edmoore> it's basically a full size high spec rig in a mobile package
[10:16] <edmoore> I was watching waterfall plots of icarus on its deisplay yesterday in rtty mode
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[10:17] <edmoore> it's delicious
[10:17] <jcoxon> :-)
[10:17] <edmoore> and you can resize your filters on the fly
[10:17] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[10:18] <edmoore> hi mib_0rwww2
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[10:42] <Laurenceb> hi ed
[10:42] <Laurenceb> is there any temperature sensor data up ?
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[10:44] <edmoore> Laurenceb: from what?
[10:44] <edmoore> hi EarlJr
[10:45] <edmoore> EarlJr_: , sorry
[10:45] <Laurenceb> from icarus
[10:46] <edmoore> not sure
[10:46] <edmoore> ask jcoxon on his return
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[10:56] <edmoore> Laurenceb: last column looks like a contender
[10:56] <Laurenceb> got the link?
[10:56] <edmoore> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[10:56] <Laurenceb> thanks
[10:58] <Laurenceb> thats got to be inside
[10:59] <edmoore> agreed
[10:59] <edmoore> kept nice and warm
[11:15] <edmoore> I was going to run a connection from car batt to radio today, but it's -6
[11:15] <edmoore> sod that
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[11:50] <Laurenceb> its 4 here
[11:50] <Laurenceb> almost ok
[11:55] <Laurenceb> omg put on 5 live
[11:55] <Laurenceb> this is really bad
[11:57] <Laurenceb> I cant believe their wasting his time talking about football
[11:57] <edmoore> who?
[11:57] <edmoore> not near a radio
[12:01] <Laurenceb> the PM
[12:01] <Laurenceb> they were interviewing him about football for about 15minutes
[12:01] <Laurenceb> surely someone could have texted him to say it looked bad
[12:01] <Laurenceb> anyway I'm off
[12:01] <Laurenceb> cya
[12:01] <edmoore> that's probably just what the press aids asked them to do
[12:01] <edmoore> cya
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[12:04] <gordonjcp> EarlJr_: ye
[12:04] <gordonjcp> oops
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[12:05] <rjharrison> back for a bit
[12:05] <rjharrison> just want to go through the data and we have guests
[12:06] <rjharrison> Nightmare
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[12:32] <edmoore> natrium42: watching DSerial assembly - cool!
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[13:36] <Hiena> ' morning!
[13:36] <Hiena> Just found the official himmn of the channel: http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/blimp/
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[14:34] <rjharrison> hi all
[14:35] <rjharrison> Finally guests have gone and I have been able to look at data
[14:35] <gordonjcp> heh
[14:35] <rjharrison> List log from icarus was RX (2009-01-03 12:29Z): $$icarus,749,12:29:24,51.325825,0.839561,35689,111.1,111.1,0,-1.-4
[14:36] <rjharrison> Which I believe is a record at 35689
[14:36] <rjharrison> master coxon go the prev reading at RX (2009-01-03 12:29Z): $$icarus,748,12:29:10,51.328161,0.829353,35206,109.3,111.8,0,-1.-5
[14:36] <rjharrison> got
[14:37] <rjharrison> so I guess i need james to confirm the last reading
[14:38] <edmoore> hi rjharrison
[14:38] <rjharrison> Hi ed
[14:38] <edmoore> congrats
[14:38] <edmoore> this is *cool*
[14:38] <rjharrison> Got lucky
[14:38] <edmoore> well timed I'd say!
[14:38] <rjharrison> Just noticed that james had logged the penultimate figure and I wonder if he got the last sentance
[14:39] <rjharrison> Wil have to get hime to check his logs
[14:39] <edmoore> 3km from the sea on a 200km flight is what we call high-performance engineering
[14:39] <rjharrison> Another near coast hit
[14:39] <rjharrison> I have update the wiki launch info
[14:39] <rjharrison> This was the landing point http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=51.054471,0.932895&sll=51.062962,0.921822&sspn=0.012434,0.033045&ie=UTF8&ll=50.993879,1.356812&spn=0.796938,2.114868&t=h&z=10&g=51.054471,0.932895
[14:40] <rjharrison> rtty worked well
[14:41] <edmoore> it's a good data mode for this stuff
[14:41] <rjharrison> I'm going to have to do the debug on the code but it apears to drop the 0 after the dp for some reason
[14:41] <edmoore> combined with fldigi (all platforms) and a decent receiver, it's open to anyone
[14:41] <rjharrison> so any .0xxx coes out as .xxx
[14:41] <rjharrison> Yep
[14:42] <rjharrison> I got sig 8 here in yorkshire
[14:42] <edmoore> was thinking of getting a 1 element yagi for the house hear and pointing it up towards all of london and south east uk
[14:42] <edmoore> here*
[14:42] <edmoore> that'd give fantastic reception
[14:43] <rjharrison> I don't think you need a yagi here in dewsbery I just had a vertical
[14:43] <gordonjcp> edmoore: a "1 element yagi" would be a dipole ;-)
[14:43] <edmoore> ok ok, nernernernerner
[14:43] <rjharrison> hehe
[14:43] <rjharrison> lol
[14:43] <edmoore> one driven element, one reflector, and one passive element
[14:43] <gordonjcp> that would be a three-element yagi
[14:43] <gordonjcp> ;-)
[14:44] <edmoore> duly noted and educated
[14:44] <gordonjcp> the WA5VJB design is good, but fiddly to tune
[14:44] <rjharrison> The distributed lister was fun shame about the data
[14:44] <rjharrison> Will be back for second launch real soon
[14:44] <gordonjcp> you could also scale up the K5OE 70cm design
[14:44] <rjharrison> in the next tree weeks
[14:44] <rjharrison> three
[14:44] <edmoore> we'll have to try and beat you before then :D
[14:45] <rjharrison> Well master coxon was insistant on 1kg lift
[14:45] <rjharrison> I put him off the 1.5
[14:45] <rjharrison> But only just made it before the coast
[14:45] <rjharrison> I have updated the records with my last reading but I would like James to vire his data to confirm
[14:46] <rjharrison> view
[14:47] <edmoore> get yourself registered with the guys in the US who keep the record pages
[14:47] <edmoore> before the next one
[14:49] <rjharrison> oh I didn't know about the us site
[14:49] <edmoore> found the link?
[14:50] <rjharrison> just sent an email with my logs for james and steve to compare against. Have CC'ed you in
[14:50] <edmoore> cool
[14:50] <edmoore> got it
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[14:57] <rjharrison> i'll be posting the full logs to my web site later
[14:57] <rjharrison> The distributed listener is going to be fun
[14:58] <rjharrison> James worked his radio from the field just fine
[14:58] <edmoore> fergusnoble_: just came across a teddy bear pun i'd not seen yet, in a comment by someone
[14:58] <rjharrison> go on
[14:58] <edmoore> 'They've got The Right Stuffing'
[14:58] <rjharrison> haha
[14:58] <rjharrison> I want another launch to test the fixed code
[14:59] <rjharrison> Will send you a jack before the next launch
[14:59] <edmoore> ha, it's ok
[14:59] <edmoore> will buy one
[14:59] <edmoore> tried curry's yesterday but they wanted £14.99 for one
[14:59] <edmoore> sod that
[14:59] <rjharrison> Out ragouse
[15:00] <rjharrison> you should have cut the end off a headphone and shoved the wires in the data socket
[15:00] <rjharrison> but your radio is a bit new for that treatment
[15:00] <edmoore> damn right
[15:00] <edmoore> I *love* it
[15:01] <edmoore> i was watching the rtty on its onboard waterfall display
[15:01] <rjharrison> The data ports at the back are cool on the yaesu and probably Icom in that you can listen and sample at the some time
[15:01] <edmoore> clear as day
[15:01] <rjharrison> ie the speaker works on the radio at the same time as the data goes to the computer
[15:02] <edmoore> yes, i thyink they're for the TNC
[15:02] <edmoore> think*
[15:02] <rjharrison> I'm knocking up an data audio cable next week
[15:03] <rjharrison> right I'm off out for a bit with the kids as wife had them all day yeaterday
[15:03] <rjharrison> I ws knackered when i got home
[15:03] <edmoore> I can imagine!
[15:03] <rjharrison> and i had to entertain as I had guests
[15:03] <edmoore> the driving always gets me on these things
[15:04] <rjharrison> Left leeds at 6am
[15:04] <rjharrison> got home at 9:30
[15:04] <edmoore> and you drove epic distances
[15:04] <rjharrison> I darn't even work that out
[15:05] <rjharrison> I'm sure the fuel cost more than the launch inc the payload
[15:05] <edmoore> don't bother :) you got the alt record so that's all that matters
[15:05] <rjharrison> It was fun foxing the baloon down
[15:05] <rjharrison> esp as I wasn't even sure of the coords
[15:05] <edmoore> that's almost my prefered way of doing things
[15:05] <rjharrison> Will be doing a full track test across uk before next launch
[15:06] <rjharrison> I'm not sure tha I want the cost of gps
[15:06] <rjharrison> opps
[15:06] <rjharrison> gsm
[15:06] <rjharrison> icarus = budget board
[15:06] <rjharrison> and best of all I got it back
[15:07] <edmoore> it's a safety net more than a flight requirment
[15:07] <rjharrison> I'm going to do an eagle on it soon
[15:07] <rjharrison> and get a load made up
[15:07] <rjharrison> you'll have to send me the link on that 99 pound offer
[15:08] <rjharrison> I guess 6 boards would be enough
[15:08] <edmoore> you'd probably fit more than that on
[15:08] <rjharrison> My change the avrs to surface mount as smaller
[15:08] <rjharrison> may
[15:09] <rjharrison> Will have header to program chips too with new cose
[15:09] <rjharrison> code
[15:09] <rjharrison> right must go
[15:09] <edmoore> cool, catch you later
[15:09] <rjharrison> looking forward to disecting the logs tonight and finding the errors
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[15:23] <Xenion> iis someone here who could help a little bit with beagle ( CAM ) ?
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[15:23] <Xenion> i used the software for quite some time but there still things i don't understand
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[15:23] <Xenion> and i'm unable to find a good documentation for it :(
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[15:38] <fuzzylugnuts> :)
[15:49] <fuzzylugnuts> any soundmodem-savy folks around?
[15:52] <fuzzylugnuts> especially you pegasus wizards : )
[15:53] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm trying to use soundmodem to network the gumstix and desktop together via the soundcards by having soundmodem in Mkiss mode
[16:00] <fuzzylugnuts> if I try to ping the gumstix's IP, I hear the packet over the speakers, and it decodes it on the gumstix, but it never goes to the network, for lack of a better term
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[16:03] <fuzzylugnuts> anyways it seems like it should be working and is not, so any help would be appreciated
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[17:41] <rjharrison> hi RocketBoy
[17:42] <rjharrison> Did you get the logs when the balloon burst yeaterday
[17:42] <rjharrison> yesterday?
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[17:54] <edmoore> hi hallam
[17:55] <edmoore> rjharrison has the new alt record
[17:58] <fuzzylugnuts> cool
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[18:08] <hallam> hey
[18:08] <hallam> nice work, rjharrison
[18:08] <hallam> with the ZP?
[18:11] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:38] <hallam> Hi James
[18:38] <hallam> What sort of envelope did rjh fly?
[18:39] <jcoxon> oh latex
[18:39] <hallam> kk
[18:39] <jcoxon> 1.5kg with just over .6kg of lift
[18:40] <jcoxon> they payload was very light, nice and simple
[18:40] <hallam> nice
[18:40] <hallam> what's the new record?
[18:40] <hallam> [roughly]
[18:40] <jcoxon> did think about going for the vent idea with a totex but the winds weren't very favourable - lucky we didn't cause it would be over france
[18:40] <jcoxon> 35.6km
[18:41] <hallam> cool
[18:41] <jcoxon> 35689
[18:41] <jcoxon> i need to check it in my logs to make sure
[18:41] <jcoxon> hallam, we tested our distributed listening system as well with both his and mine (in london) receiving and feeding to a server
[18:42] <jcoxon> which worked really well
[18:42] <hallam> great!
[18:42] <hallam> is there a standard telemetry format now?
[18:42] <jcoxon> sort of, but the server can easily be adapted for each launch
[18:42] <jcoxon> i think we already have a 'badger profile'
[18:42] <edmoore> hallam we went for a simple standard which badger works with
[18:43] <edmoore> basically the basics in the header and a massive section of 'blah' for people to do what they want with
[18:43] <jcoxon> can either use my python client which sits in the background reading the log file and submitting or make your own - just needs to POST data to the server
[18:43] Nick change: EarlJr_ -> EarlJr
[18:43] <jcoxon> edmoore, the $$ start really helps with parsing
[18:43] <edmoore> yeah
[18:44] <edmoore> twas the idea!
[18:44] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:44] <edmoore> i like the vnc into the various listening posts too
[18:44] <edmoore> remote nob twiddling
[18:45] <edmoore> hallam: james had a lovely way to tune his radio remotely
[18:45] <hallam> oh?
[18:45] <jcoxon> yeah i've tapped into the mic port on the ft790r so you can go up and down
[18:45] <edmoore> talk to an arduino through a php script running on the pc, which in turn drove a servo, which in tune tuned the radio by turning its tuning knob
[18:45] <jcoxon> and my old laptop controlled this with a web server and some php
[18:45] <edmoore> oh even better!
[18:45] <edmoore> the servo was a previous incarnation then?
[18:46] <jcoxon> yeah that was last hack
[18:46] <jcoxon> this one is much more reliable
[18:46] <edmoore> mic knob is current hack :)
[18:46] <hallam> that's magnificent
[18:46] <jcoxon> only issues is that its dead reckoning as you don't really know what the freq is
[18:46] <edmoore> less fun, but the icom has a well documented serial interface
[18:46] <jcoxon> just what you left it at
[18:46] <edmoore> can control basically everything about it
[18:46] <jcoxon> edmoore, yeah that'll be really worth it though
[18:47] <edmoore> i kind of want to take it with us on chases though :)
[18:47] <hallam> you won't want to leave the ic-7000 anywhere for remote operation though, it must be too fun to play with
[18:47] <edmoore> but hey, we've got the ft-170 which is definitely more mobile
[18:47] <edmoore> hallam: exactly
[18:47] <edmoore> i want it on my dash, dripping with awesome
[18:48] <edmoore> the head unit is detachable so it can be easily mounted anywhere
[18:48] <hallam> anyone here know about supersonic flow?
[18:48] <jcoxon> well my station will probably stay put
[18:48] <jcoxon> might improve the antenna and also the web page
[18:48] <edmoore> we need really a good accessible spot in cam where we can safely leave stuff, with a nice view out over east anglia
[18:49] <edmoore> jcoxon: i was thinking
[18:49] <jcoxon> thinking of intergrating the python script a bit so that it displays decoded data as well
[18:49] <edmoore> a 2 or three element yagi
[18:49] <jcoxon> i'm using a moxon antenna
[18:49] <edmoore> be careful
[18:49] <edmoore> look at their elevation pattern
[18:49] <edmoore> it's got a very very regular pattern of nulls in elevation
[18:49] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[18:49] <edmoore> which struck me as not being very helpful for ballooning
[18:49] <jcoxon> it was easy to make
[18:50] <jcoxon> thats why i did it, hehe
[18:50] <jcoxon> the big problem is finding somewhere to mount it
[18:51] <edmoore> indeed, i looked at it too for a listening station here
[18:51] <edmoore> but the elevation pattern put me off
[18:52] <jcoxon> fair enough
[18:52] <jcoxon> i think i'd be able to submit more sentences with a bit more work on the tuning scripts etc
[18:52] <hallam> but you should definitely use it, James, because then it can be known as the Coxon Moxon
[18:52] <jcoxon> hallam, indeed!
[18:52] <edmoore> I thought that :p
[18:52] <jcoxon> along with the Coxon Kilometre :p
[18:53] <edmoore> :p
[18:54] <jcoxon> so yeah, next flight we need a few more input stations
[18:54] <edmoore> oh, thought of a decent elevation mechanism for longer yagi steerable stations
[18:54] <edmoore> a screw jack from a car
[18:54] <edmoore> stick a drill motor on the crank and you'll have a rock solid elevation from about 0 to 70 degrees
[18:55] <edmoore> and it'll cost ya £2 from a scrappie, more importantly
[18:58] <edmoore> http://www.moxonantennaproject.com/sm5jab/sm5jab_2.htm
[18:58] <edmoore> there we go
[18:58] <edmoore> check the elevation radiation pattern
[18:58] <edmoore> whole bunch of lobes and nulls
[18:59] <edmoore> though... it obviously worked in this case!
[18:59] <edmoore> it's be interesting if you could log signal strength vs balloon altitude next time
[18:59] <jcoxon> i'd really need to be at the station
[19:00] <RocketBoy> rharrison: I have the Icarus II log - but ms-vista permissions are stopping me getting at it at the moment
[19:00] <jcoxon> haven't got round to going through the actually log file yet off the radio
[19:02] <edmoore> http://www.mydarc.de/df8gh/handitenna.htm was thinking of something like this from my relatively distant west sussex
[19:02] <edmoore> also for the car
[19:02] <edmoore> hallam: you recall last time on the nova 9 chase we sometimes needed a bit more than the whip
[19:03] <edmoore> but struggled with the massive bloody yagi on the back seat which was overkill
[19:03] <jcoxon> edmoore, yeah that looks good
[19:03] <jcoxon> i could build one of those and for launches mount it outside my window
[19:03] <edmoore> it would be nice if there was some kind of happy roof mountable solution for minimum fuss
[19:03] Nick change: hallam -> hallam|dinner
[19:03] <edmoore> jcoxon: yeah
[19:03] <edmoore> it lookes simple and smart
[19:05] <edmoore> RocketBoy: what's the best way (within our means) of switching between antennas?
[19:05] <edmoore> so one receiver, and the ability to remotely switch between, say, a whip and a yagi
[19:05] <edmoore> without having a body there to unplug on bnc and plug in another
[19:07] <edmoore> hallam|dinner: for when you return, I think we should invest in an SWR meter for 434mhz
[19:07] <RocketBoy> for rx only then pin diodes is probably best - or a co-ax relay if you can get one
[19:09] <RocketBoy> you can make a co-ax relay with a reed switch if you can get one.
[19:10] <jcoxon> hmm is there a receommended powersupply for radios (for 13.8v)?
[19:10] <RocketBoy> using pin diodes is the way I would probably do it these days - you bias one diode on and the other off
[19:12] <edmoore> jcoxon: i got this one: http://www.hamradio.co.uk/acatalog/Accs_PowerSupplies.html sps-8250
[19:12] <edmoore> RocketBoy: cool, co-ax relays. didn't know they existed!
[19:13] <jcoxon> edmoore, not cheap are they
[19:14] <edmoore> you can mod atx power supplies
[19:14] <edmoore> but i have blown 3 up
[19:15] <edmoore> i went for that one as i also have a universal charger that needs decent amps at 13.8v
[19:15] <edmoore> the current meter is useful
[19:17] <edmoore> the jist of that was- i don't rate the reliability of modded atx power supplies much. but I didn't treat them all that kindly
[19:18] <jcoxon> fair enough
[19:18] <edmoore> they may be fine for a radio which is probably much kinder
[19:21] <jcoxon> but then a nice power supply will always be useful
[19:22] Nick change: hallam|dinner -> hallam
[19:23] <hallam> Ed, yes a SWR meter is a good idea
[19:23] <hallam> would love to order one but I'm still pushing at my overdraft limit
[19:23] <edmoore> jcoxon: exactly. i thought sod it and got one. it'll serve me well
[19:23] <edmoore> hallam: s'ok. If we get an ok, I'll get one
[19:24] <edmoore> have got some room for purchases
[19:24] Action: jcoxon has got his student loan :-p
[19:24] <edmoore> RocketBoy: do you have any recommendations on an SWR meter that will do 434mhz or are they all much-for-much?
[19:24] <hallam> I remember discussing it with Iain or someone and getting general murmurs of agreement, I don't think it was expensive
[19:24] <hallam> we abused the ATX PSU on the weld-o-tron pretty badly
[19:24] <hallam> it's still trucking, but I'm kind of surprised
[19:25] <hallam> numerous crowbar shorts on the 12V rail when the plastic caught the hotwire cutter and shorted it to ground
[19:25] <edmoore> i think my prob was back emf
[19:25] <edmoore> was testing dc motor controllers with it
[19:25] Nick change: Bluenarf -> EI5GTB
[19:25] <edmoore> slamming them into reverse, abusing the h-bridge etc
[19:26] <edmoore> actually i remember - trying to measure the voltage drop across the mosfets between pwm pulses to ascertain current draw - removed the diode
[19:27] <jcoxon> ed you are crazy
[19:28] <hallam> remember if you have problems with DC motors the solution is to adopt more butter
[19:28] <edmoore> explain
[19:28] <edmoore> actually i'm not sure I want you to
[19:29] <hallam> the continuous band welder has this wonderful label on it saying something like "For preventive good time the machine adopts butter twice a year"
[19:29] <edmoore> hallam: we should hear from rsgb sometime soon shouldn't we?
[19:29] <hallam> yeah, I hope so, though it is the holidays
[19:29] <hallam> anyway we were having some problems with one of the windscreen wiper motors
[19:29] <hallam> took it apart, looked fine, put it back together, wouldn't turn
[19:30] <hallam> 4 hours of frustration later, added more grease and it started working again
[19:30] <hallam> though it's still iffy, I would love to get some real gearmotors in there
[19:30] <jcoxon> so when can we expect another nova?
[19:31] <edmoore> I used to use wiper motors for robots too
[19:31] <edmoore> They're not the nicest things
[19:31] <hallam> have any spares?
[19:31] <hallam> or even any other spare robot motors
[19:31] <edmoore> i think I dumped them all when i got rid of a load of robot wars crap
[19:32] <edmoore> but they gave them to be fore £2 ea at the scrappie
[19:32] <edmoore> drill gear motors became the defacto standard general purpose motors
[19:33] <hallam> heh, I think spaceflight paid £20 each
[19:33] <edmoore> not to say we should use them - we dumped wiper motors because worm gears are crappy for moving robots around
[19:33] <edmoore> very inefficient
[19:34] <edmoore> and no regen braking
[19:34] <hallam> Why are they inefficient?
[19:34] <edmoore> they're very high friction
[19:35] <edmoore> it's why you can't turn the pinion and have the screw turn around
[19:35] <hallam> hence all the butter, I guess
[19:35] <edmoore> but you get a lot of reduction in a small space
[19:35] <edmoore> so that's a plus
[19:36] <hallam> when they're working, they manage the tubing rollers okay
[19:37] <hallam> but I think they were kind of at their limits of torqueability
[19:37] <edmoore> so i'm quite keen to pull finger out and get a track-a-tron working in the next few weeks
[19:37] <hallam> and I think there'll be more torque required for bigger balloons
[19:39] <hallam> by track-a-tron you mean steerable antenna?
[19:40] <edmoore> yes
[19:40] <hallam> it would definitely be nice to have, but for me ZPs are higher priority atm
[19:40] <edmoore> sure. Thankfully there's lots of us :)
[19:41] <edmoore> btw did you ping cadsoft?
[19:41] <edmoore> that's the Other Big Priority - B2
[19:44] <hallam> oops, will do that now'
[19:46] <edmoore> np
[19:46] <edmoore> can get the design down pretty quick as have more or less layed out and thought it out. but will obviously need fergusnoble_'s input as he's da man
[19:50] <jcoxon> oh guys
[19:50] <edmoore> jcoxon: yo
[19:50] <hallam> oh James
[19:50] <jcoxon> i found an article about the spirit of knoxville guys saying that they weren't going to carry on
[19:50] <edmoore> :)
[19:50] <edmoore> why not!/
[19:50] <edmoore> graduated?
[19:50] <edmoore> died?
[19:50] <edmoore> divorced?
[19:50] <jcoxon> graduated/money
[19:50] <edmoore> beheaded?
[19:51] <edmoore> could you share it us?
[19:51] <jcoxon> i'll try and find the link, one sec
[19:51] <jcoxon> http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/May/25/ups-and-downs/
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[19:54] <jcoxon> tada
[19:54] <edmoore> wow
[19:54] <jcoxon> who knows did we leave or did they?
[19:55] <edmoore> don't get philosophical on me
[19:55] <edmoore> zeusbot would know actually
[19:55] <jcoxon> zeusbot knows all
[19:55] <RocketBoy> rjharrison: logs sent
[19:57] <edmoore> RocketBoy: fascinating
[19:57] <edmoore> 35289
[19:57] <edmoore> vs 35689
[19:58] <RocketBoy> one bit difference
[19:58] <hallam> *ahem* fec fec
[19:58] <edmoore> exactly
[19:58] <edmoore> 00110010
[19:58] <edmoore> 00110110
[19:59] <edmoore> 2 and 6 respectively
[19:59] <edmoore> this is an argument for checksums :)
[19:59] <edmoore> or FEC. or whatever
[19:59] <edmoore> rjharrison: ping-a-ding-a-ling
[20:00] <edmoore> hallam: for context - i will forward the mail to you
[20:00] <hallam> the mail?
[20:00] <hallam> oh
[20:00] <hallam> ok
[20:00] <hallam> yay distractions
[20:00] <jcoxon> hmmmmmmmm
[20:00] <jcoxon> its sadly going to be 35289
[20:01] <edmoore> is that what you have?
[20:01] <edmoore> it also makes sense in the laws of physics
[20:01] <jcoxon> i don't have it in my log but if you look at the trend the alt increases were in the region of 100m rather than 400m
[20:01] <RocketBoy> look at the ascent rate 35289 is in keeping with the AR and 35689 isn't
[20:01] <jcoxon> i have :-) $$icarus,749&'''<DC3>??E????b?r?????b????b???r?b???r?`?bl?rj?
[20:01] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:02] <RocketBoy> ...... yes good
[20:02] <jcoxon> thought that would help
[20:02] <RocketBoy> (humor him)
[20:03] <jcoxon> oh well, stil trumps nova :-p
[20:03] <jcoxon> still*
[20:03] <hallam> ASCII is great and all but binary data with even simple error correction would have fit in the same space and not had ambiguity
[20:03] <RocketBoy> where is the all time amateur alt list?
[20:04] <edmoore> we can just do some basic FEC on the ascii
[20:04] <jcoxon> http://showcase.netins.net/web/wallio/ARHABrecords.htm
[20:04] <hallam> http://showcase.netins.net/web/wallio/ARHABrecords.htm
[20:04] <edmoore> add it to the 'blah' section of the universal protocol
[20:05] <edmoore> we're proudly towards the bottom of that list
[20:07] <jcoxon> :-)
[20:08] <RocketBoy> do you have to register before the flight?
[20:09] <edmoore> yeah
[20:09] <edmoore> I think you have to register with them geenrally
[20:10] <hallam> ours were retroactive though
[20:10] <edmoore> only because they weren't going to upset anyone
[20:10] <edmoore> being down towards the bottom
[20:10] <edmoore> if you email them, tell them I sent you and that you're under the same legislation as us
[20:11] <edmoore> there were several backwards and forwards with their list (ANSR, EOSS, and the guy who runs the site) about if we qualified
[20:11] <edmoore> well, not 'tell them I sent you' but basically tell them it's the same deal as CU Spaceflight are under
[20:12] <rjharrison> Hi all
[20:13] <rjharrison> Master coxon makes a good point all jumps at ~100m
[20:13] <edmoore> yeah
[20:13] <edmoore> some kind of don't-need-a-degree-to-understand-or-implement FEC research might be of benefit to all
[20:13] <rjharrison> Will boot up and grab the raw fltdi.log
[20:13] <rjharrison> or whatever it's called
[20:13] <edmoore> anyway, off for a pint. back later
[20:14] <rjharrison> ttfn
[20:14] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
[20:14] <jcoxon> rjharrison, thanks for updating the wiki, was just about to o it
[20:16] <natrium42> hi
[20:17] <hallam> Hi rjharrison
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[20:38] <rjharrison> BTW hi henry
[20:38] <rjharrison> opps
[20:38] <rjharrison> hi hallam
[20:39] <rjharrison> I'm going to be landing in the sea if i keep going on like thsi
[20:39] <rjharrison> this
[20:40] <rjharrison> 500m and this was about 2000m
[20:40] <hallam> well if you keep going like that, the next one will be 3.5km inland
[20:40] <hallam> no problems
[20:40] <rjharrison> Steve I just realised we got more or less the same data but I had some minor corruption
[20:40] <rjharrison> RocketBoy that is
[20:40] <rjharrison> 2 = 6
[20:41] <rjharrison> Distributed listener worked very well
[20:41] <rjharrison> same about my coods
[20:41] <rjharrison> debugging now
[20:41] <natrium42> rjharrison, i fixed up your track if you need it
[20:42] <natrium42> 6 decimal places for each lat/lon
[20:42] <rjharrison> Thanks
[20:42] <rjharrison> Fantastic I was going to do that tonight
[20:42] <rjharrison> And was deading going through the data
[20:42] <rjharrison> dreading
[20:42] <natrium42> spacenear.us/tracker
[20:42] <rjharrison> cool
[20:42] <rjharrison> I'm there now
[20:42] <natrium42> i can give you the script too
[20:43] <natrium42> so that you can reupload to your own tracker
[20:43] <rjharrison> the script to fix the data
[20:43] <natrium42> yep
[20:43] <rjharrison> Cool
[20:43] <natrium42> it's quite small
[20:43] <natrium42> one sec
[20:43] <rjharrison> I still use your table so a dump from mission_id=0 would be cool
[20:45] <rjharrison> hey that is cool
[20:45] <natrium42> http://rafb.net/p/AYhNEq11.html
[20:45] <natrium42> change $url_string at line 119, then run it from command line php interpreter
[20:45] <rjharrison> Will do
[20:46] <natrium42> oh, btw, it skips some locations at the beginning using line 102
[20:46] <rjharrison> Ok
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[20:47] <rjharrison> BTW do you know what the basic problem was?
[20:47] <rjharrison> ie is it any thing with a .0xxx
[20:47] <natrium42> not only that
[20:47] <natrium42> also .00xx
[20:47] <natrium42> etc
[20:47] <rjharrison> humm
[20:47] <rjharrison> I'm going to pass some data now and track down the bugger
[20:47] <natrium42> you must have converted the string to integer and back to string again
[20:47] <rjharrison> Yep
[20:47] <natrium42> for the number after decimal point
[20:48] <natrium42> not a big problem
[20:48] <natrium42> probably a one line fix, eh? :)
[20:48] <rjharrison> ahh you may have just sorted the problem sir
[20:50] <rjharrison> I havn't accounted for the leading zeros after the dp
[20:50] <rjharrison> Silly me
[20:50] <natrium42> no biggie :)
[20:50] <rjharrison> and all my local testing was fine due to my location
[20:50] <natrium42> it's a pretty common bug
[20:50] <rjharrison> it's bad news having the line run through the uk
[20:51] <rjharrison> infact nigh on the launch site :)
[20:51] <natrium42> haha
[20:51] <rjharrison> You did a great job fixing that data
[20:52] <natrium42> thanks, no problem
[20:52] <rjharrison> The listener was good for gettting all the points through
[20:52] <natrium42> yeah, you did a great job planning everything
[20:52] <rjharrison> It would be easy to mod the code to post to you site as well if you would host the php as well
[20:52] <natrium42> looking forward to the next launch
[20:52] <rjharrison> then we could have redundency
[20:52] <rjharrison> on the server side
[20:53] <natrium42> i think it's fine unless you worry about your server going down
[20:53] <rjharrison> it basically takes all loggings into a second table and then inserts one unique one into your postions table
[20:53] <rjharrison> positions
[20:54] <natrium42> right
[20:54] <rjharrison> I have made gps_time with a unique index to preven muliple entrys
[20:54] <natrium42> we should add a field for sensor readings
[20:54] <rjharrison> Yep that would be cool
[20:55] <rjharrison> I can only think of temp and baro atm
[20:55] <rjharrison> perhaps reliability
[20:55] <natrium42> could have multiple temp sensors
[20:55] <rjharrison> yep 3 max
[20:55] <rjharrison> internal external and camera
[20:55] <rjharrison> if you have external one
[20:56] <natrium42> i will have to play with the codebase soon enough
[20:56] <natrium42> since my next launch will have live pictures
[20:56] <natrium42> i need to add them to the bubbles
[20:57] <natrium42> going to be a good time to fix other problems too
[20:57] <rjharrison> I keep meaning to have a dig in there
[20:57] <rjharrison> It would be cool to do some tabed options
[20:58] <rjharrison> as well as full screen data
[20:58] <natrium42> yeah
[20:58] <natrium42> and a proper admin interface
[20:58] <natrium42> to delete bad points etc
[20:58] <rjharrison> Like you I have a big screen and it's great to see every thing
[20:58] <rjharrison> Though I can turn video on an off
[20:59] <rjharrison> Admin interface is cool too
[20:59] <rjharrison> So many times it would be gret to remove a bad ponit
[21:00] <natrium42> it's possible to do it automatically for points waaay distant
[21:00] <natrium42> :)
[21:00] <rjharrison> Like my nigeria ones
[21:01] <natrium42> lol
[21:10] <rjharrison> uloading some pics from the day
[21:10] <natrium42> cool
[21:11] <natrium42> btw, i ordered a chute from spherachutes too
[21:11] <natrium42> they look good quality
[21:13] <rjharrison> they are great
[21:13] <rjharrison> If you're going to retrive then they look very nice
[21:13] <natrium42> got a 60" with weather balloon attachment
[21:14] <rjharrison> I used one from RocketBoy on this one as I thought it was going to be sacrificail
[21:14] <rjharrison> woof
[21:14] <rjharrison> what does the attachment do
[21:14] <natrium42> i think it's just a center loop
[21:14] <natrium42> or X
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[21:54] <Laurenceb> hello
[21:55] <Laurenceb> hi hallam
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[22:00] <hallam> Hi Laurence and James
[22:01] <Laurenceb> happy new year
[22:01] <jcoxon> hey h
[22:01] <jcoxon> hallam, *
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[22:10] <rjharrison> hi jcoxon
[22:11] <rjharrison> natrium42 has done a good job fixing the data
[22:11] <rjharrison> see spacenearus/tracker
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[22:13] <hallam> rjharrison, are you still planning to fly your Science Museum ZP?
[22:14] <jcoxon> yeah i saw the correction track
[22:14] <rjharrison> yep
[22:15] <rjharrison> provided I can get CAA aproval
[22:15] <Laurenceb> science museum?
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[22:15] <rjharrison> though it is black :)
[22:15] <Laurenceb> how big is it?
[22:15] <Laurenceb> ah
[22:15] <Laurenceb> a solar one?
[22:15] <rjharrison> yep
[22:15] <Laurenceb> should be interesting
[22:15] <rjharrison> only 11 pounds
[22:16] <rjharrison> £ !lb
[22:18] <hallam> hope you hear from them soon, should be pretty interesting
[22:18] <hallam> is it much taller than it is wide?
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[22:21] <Laurenceb> whats the overall size? (approx)
[22:40] <Laurenceb> be interesting to observe the solar heating effects and longwave IR
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[23:03] <natrium42_> rjharrison: pics plz
[23:06] <rjharrison> sorry
[23:06] <rjharrison> got side tracked
[23:06] <rjharrison> 10 mins
[23:06] Nick change: edmoore|away -> edmoore
[23:06] <edmoore> back
[23:07] <natrium42_> :)
[23:08] <edmoore> jcoxon: ping
[23:08] <jcoxon> hey ed
[23:08] <jcoxon> i've only got 4% battery
[23:08] <edmoore> ok
[23:08] <jcoxon> how can i help
[23:08] <edmoore> and what about your laptop?
[23:08] <jcoxon> i could plug myself in
[23:08] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:08] <edmoore> that sounds sensible :)
[23:09] <jcoxon> how can i help?
[23:09] <edmoore> was just saying yo and that
[23:10] <edmoore> had no idea co-ax relays existed before rocketboy mentioned
[23:10] <edmoore> they look awesome
[23:10] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:12] <jcoxon> right 3%, time to go
[23:12] <jcoxon> night all
[23:12] <natrium42_> nite
[23:12] <edmoore> cya
[23:12] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-158-31-172.range86-158.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:12] <natrium42_> now what?
[23:15] <edmoore> natrium42_: who knows
[23:16] <edmoore> would like to build a track-a-tron
[23:16] <edmoore> actually, I can do something useful
[23:16] <edmoore> look for/build some serial control software for the ic-7000
[23:17] <natrium42_> did you get a CV-I cable?
[23:18] <edmoore> foolishly no
[23:18] <natrium42_> i built one at first using usb-to-serial thingy from sparkfun i had lying around
[23:18] <natrium42_> but then ordered a usb one on ebay, since it was quite cheap
[23:18] <edmoore> i was just going to use an ftdi thingy
[23:18] <natrium42_> ah, should do
[23:18] <edmoore> i think eventually i'd have it controlled by the same controller that does pan/tilt for track-a-tron
[23:19] <edmoore> so just one board that controls everything plugged into the laptop
[23:19] <natrium42_> same laptop? :)
[23:19] <edmoore> control card :)
[23:20] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[23:21] <natrium42_> hmm, natrium42 left
[23:21] <natrium42_> edmoore: what about The Hobble (TM) ?
[23:21] <edmoore> oh, that's definitely occupying brain cycles atm :)
[23:22] <edmoore> but track-a-tron is something a bit shorter term
[23:22] <natrium42_> gotcha
[23:22] <natrium42_> have you considered telescope mounts?
[23:22] <edmoore> can double up the control card for the motors to do the controlling for the hobble pointing
[23:23] <edmoore> I've not really looked at telescope mounts
[23:24] <edmoore> was going to start with an SLR and a wideish lens
[23:24] <edmoore> just to try some wide field shots
[23:25] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3168660274/in/set-72157612167714216/
[23:25] <rjharrison> some pics
[23:25] <rjharrison> not grat but you get the idea
[23:26] <edmoore> awesome
[23:26] <edmoore> looks chilly!
[23:27] <rjharrison> -1 brrrr
[23:28] <natrium42_> nice pics
[23:28] <natrium42_> speaking of chilly
[23:28] <edmoore> hungry?
[23:29] <natrium42_> any recommendations about launching in the snow?
[23:29] <natrium42_> :P
[23:29] <rjharrison> get som rubber gloves
[23:29] <edmoore> spring terminals not screw terminals
[23:30] <edmoore> a) they don't contract and loosen
[23:30] <edmoore> b) fiddling about with tiny screwdrivers when you can't feel your fingers is not fun
[23:30] <natrium42_> i thought about heat guns
[23:30] <edmoore> i remember one feb launch with james
[23:30] <natrium42_> to heat hands if necessary...
[23:30] <edmoore> we took 30 second 'exposed hands' stints
[23:30] <natrium42_> i wonder if there is a propane powered heat gun
[23:31] <edmoore> then swapped over whilst the other had hands in pockets until feeling was restored
[23:31] <natrium42_> lol
[23:31] <natrium42_> sounds fun :S
[23:32] <natrium42_> bbl food
[23:32] <edmoore> cool
[23:38] <edmoore> james does hab-chic http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/2996848028/sizes/l/
[23:40] Action: Laurenceb back
[23:41] <Laurenceb> I was watching the recruit....
[23:41] <Laurenceb> ICE9 is the stupidest idea for a plot ever
[23:41] <edmoore> ice9?
[23:42] <Laurenceb> basically a virus that streads on power lines
[23:42] <Laurenceb> the photos look neat
[23:43] <Laurenceb> minimum complexity :P
[23:44] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3168236130/in/set-72157612167714216/ whos on the rhs ?
[23:45] <edmoore> rob
[23:45] <Laurenceb> doh
[23:45] <Laurenceb> hello rob :P
[23:46] <Laurenceb> very neat payload
[23:46] <Laurenceb> pity theres no camera
[23:47] <Laurenceb> edmoore: I looked at fibre gyros a while back
[23:47] <Laurenceb> thats what your thinking for the Hobble right?
[23:47] <edmoore> probably too complex, not abandoned thop
[23:47] <Laurenceb> yeah it looked to me like drift was a very big issue
[23:48] <Laurenceb> the mounting is by far the hardest thing, and they dont like temperature drift
[23:48] <Laurenceb> also single mode fibre is expensive, and you need a lot
[23:49] <Laurenceb> an ideal design seems to have a lot of single mode fibre encased in something with the same thermal expansion coefficient as itself
[23:52] <Laurenceb> theres always flimballs
[00:00] --- Mon Jan 5 2009