highaltitude.log.20081228

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[00:23] <Laurenceb> cya all
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[14:51] <edmoore> hi all
[14:51] <edmoore> and the various generations of jiffe
[14:51] <edmoore> RocketBoy: just got your message - that'd be grand
[14:51] <edmoore> it'll be fun to do multi-band balloon chasing
[14:52] <edmoore> listen on 434, co-ordinate chase on 50. or something
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> lsusb
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> oops
[14:54] <edmoore> ?
[14:56] Action: SpeedEvil is trying the much more difficult task of locating a working USB-miniA lead connected to his computer.
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:57] <edmoore> :)
[14:57] <edmoore> I always can't find them when I need them
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> This is one of the reasons despite reservations I support wireless USB.
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> Once they get power over it working.
[14:59] <edmoore> what freq is it going to be on?
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> ~2.4 of course
[15:00] <edmoore> cos there's loads of room there
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[16:37] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[16:38] <jcoxon> hmmm, seem to have lost quite a lot of channel logs from 2007
[16:38] <jcoxon> anyone got a backup?
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> !logs
[16:42] Action: SpeedEvil has no clue.
[16:46] <jcoxon> it would of required someone to have made a backup
[16:46] <jcoxon> oh well i'll have a browse
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[16:46] <SpeedEvil> google-cache?
[16:46] <edmoore> yo
[16:46] <SpeedEvil> yo
[16:46] <SpeedEvil> ISProblem solved?
[16:46] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[16:47] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[16:47] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: not yet
[16:47] <edmoore> tomorrow, with luck
[16:47] <jcoxon> edmoore, do you have a backup of your srcf account?
[16:47] <edmoore> not as far as I know
[16:47] <edmoore> I know we probably should, though
[16:47] <jcoxon> oh well
[16:47] <edmoore> why d'yask?
[16:48] <jcoxon> cause we used to have the 2007 logs on their
[16:48] <jcoxon> not the cusf but your own personal account
[16:48] <edmoore> hrm, sorry boot that
[16:49] <jcoxon> no worries
[16:49] <jcoxon> i'll try and find a backup
[16:52] <jcoxon> hows things?
[16:52] <edmoore> not bad at all
[16:52] <edmoore> v good, infact
[16:52] <edmoore> you~?
[16:52] <jcoxon> not bad
[16:52] <jcoxon> back to london tomorrow morning
[16:53] <edmoore> want to play with my radio
[16:54] <jcoxon> you are so lucky
[16:54] Action: jcoxon is jealous
[16:55] <edmoore> I was wondering if we could build a 14mhz vertical yagi in a field somewhere
[16:55] <edmoore> pointed in a certain useful direction
[16:55] <edmoore> or maybe build it cunningly enough to be steerable
[16:56] <jcoxon> pourquoi?
[16:57] <edmoore> to listen to things on 14mhz that have vertical antennas
[16:57] <jcoxon> oh right
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> 14mhz. That's gonna need a BIG antenna.
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> And it won't propogate inside the heliopause I think.
[16:58] <edmoore> it is the freq of choice for ionospheric bouncing during the day, as it happens
[16:58] <SpeedEvil> Units pedantry - it's not big, and it's not clever.
[16:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:58] <edmoore> oh i seeeeeeeeee
[16:58] <edmoore> sigh
[16:58] <edmoore> :p
[16:58] Action: SpeedEvil puts on his earMUFs.
[16:59] <jcoxon> hmmm any up and coming launches?
[17:00] <edmoore> i think rob is planning something
[17:00] <jcoxon> yeah an rtty beacon
[17:00] <edmoore> we'll do a ZP asap
[17:00] <jcoxon> you guys?
[17:00] <jcoxon> oooo exciting, on 434?
[17:00] <edmoore> yep
[17:00] <jcoxon> cool cool
[17:01] <jcoxon> apparently rob has finished the distibuted listener server
[17:01] <edmoore> grand
[17:01] <edmoore> I were thinking
[17:01] <edmoore> in the name of ham
[17:01] <edmoore> a packet system might be useful for that too
[17:02] <edmoore> so we can listen on 434, then repeat on HF at 50W to somewhere with an interweb connection
[17:02] <jcoxon> 3g is pretty hot these days
[17:02] <jcoxon> if set up correctly
[17:03] <edmoore> i guess the server is blind to it anyway
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> Or even GPRS
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> Which is completely adequate for RTTY relay
[17:03] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:03] <jcoxon> yeah the server only requires POST
[17:03] <jcoxon> it can be really easily intergrated into anything
[17:10] <edmoore> you got mail
[17:10] <edmoore> I really should have better things to do than watch this
[17:10] <jcoxon> haha
[17:10] <jcoxon> so you haven't powered up your radio yet?
[17:11] <edmoore> no, only battery around is my car battery, and the last time I disconnected that, it took me about 6 hours to persuade my car radio to unlock when i reconnected it
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> Leave it in the car
[17:11] <edmoore> (it came w/o psu, needs 13.8V)
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> connect to ciggy lighter
[17:12] <edmoore> can't pull 20A out of a ciggy lighter :)
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> Yes, you can.
[17:12] <edmoore> not that i'm going to transmit 100w straight away
[17:12] <edmoore> well, it's not rated for 20A or close, anyway
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> 10A certainly.
[17:12] <edmoore> w/o a hefty drop
[17:13] <SpeedEvil> My micra has a 15A fuse IIRC
[17:13] <edmoore> the manual specifically recommends drilling another hole from the engine bay to the cabin and making a dedicated connection
[17:13] <edmoore> I will probably do that
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> that's probably a good plan eventually.
[17:14] <edmoore> getting the car mount kit too so it can go above the dash
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> remember fuses on the battery side.
[17:14] <edmoore> will leave more room for other chase kit
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> unfused shorts = bad.
[17:14] <edmoore> won't forget fuses, panic not
[17:14] <edmoore> unlimited supply at the local scrappie
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> Personally, I'd probably connect it to the ignition circuit on the first position, maybe with a relay too.
[17:15] <edmoore> that's not a bad idea
[17:16] <edmoore> will grab haynes
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Beware the BOOK of lies!
[17:16] <edmoore> relays abound from the same place
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> It lead me to http://www.mauve.plus.com/fascia.jpg
[17:16] <edmoore> i like haynes. he's never let me down
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> I was just trying to change a heater control knob.
[17:16] <edmoore> i can't see the pic
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[17:16] <edmoore> http blocked remember :p
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> Well - I ended up completely taking off the whole dashboard due to haynes lying to me.
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> Which was deeply un-fun.
[17:17] <edmoore> I can imagine
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> They claimed there was a panel that split out and let you access the heater controls.
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> But it was a one piece molding.
[17:19] <edmoore> I'm debating the merits (or not) of drilling holes in the roof of my car
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> It's a hole.
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> Worst-case - take it off every year and kill any rust
[17:19] <edmoore> don't really like dashing down the motorway on chases with the window partly open with all the roof-kit wires
[17:20] <edmoore> i guess my car will be 15 y/o when I sell it, so a few cars aren't really the problem
[17:20] <edmoore> few holes*
[17:24] <jcoxon> hmmm, can't find a backup
[17:24] <jcoxon> will check my external hard drive tomorrow
[17:24] <jcoxon> shame if we've lost it
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[17:30] <SpeedEvil> Was this online?
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> might google have cached it?
[17:32] <jcoxon> it was online but quite a while ago
[17:32] <jcoxon> can't find a google cache nor on the internet archive
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> :/
[17:35] <edmoore> my bad
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> Maybe ask the NSA/MI5, they've gotta be watching us.
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[17:36] <jcoxon> indeed
[17:37] <jcoxon> i have lots of backup cds and such
[17:38] <jcoxon> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Realistic-DX-302-Communications-Receiver-Short-Wave_W0QQitemZ120352105221QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM?hash=item120352105221&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1300|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> Only see a couple of dec 2007 logs online
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> but I suspect you knew that
[17:40] <jcoxon> yeah
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[17:48] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:48] <rjharrison> I deserve good oral sex to night. No offers please
[19:49] <EI5GTB> lol
[19:49] <EI5GTB> why?
[19:49] <rjharrison> Got the f'ing avr working in the end with an external occilator
[19:49] <EI5GTB> nice
[19:49] <rjharrison> Royal pain in the arse
[19:49] <EI5GTB> indeed
[19:49] <rjharrison> Fuse settings are a night mare
[19:49] <rjharrison> Esp when you havent done it before
[19:50] <EI5GTB> yea, my programmer has a button... "external xtal"
[19:50] <EI5GTB> lol, i just hatd to push that and bam!
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[22:02] <Xenion> Gute Nacht alle miteinander :-)
[22:03] <Xenion> good nite, sleep well
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[22:10] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:13] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-133-67-102.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:13] <Laurenceb> hello
[22:13] Action: Laurenceb is back from another day decorating
[22:14] <Laurenceb> I finished the last wall today :)
[22:14] <jcoxon> hey Laurenceb
[22:14] <jcoxon> you work like a trooper
[22:14] <jcoxon> very impressive
[22:14] <Laurenceb> :P
[22:14] <Laurenceb> I'll have to take some photos
[22:15] <Laurenceb> just the kitchen ceiling to finish
[22:15] <Laurenceb> unfortunately thats about 20m^2 of exposed beams
[22:15] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:15] <Laurenceb> very complicated :-/
[22:15] <jcoxon> well good work
[22:15] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, did you ever get a icom pcr-1000?
[22:15] <Laurenceb> no
[22:15] <Laurenceb> I looked on ebay a few time
[22:16] <Laurenceb> one went for £140 at 4am
[22:16] <Laurenceb> but I'd fallen asleep :(
[22:16] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:17] <jcoxon> do they do ssb?
[22:17] <jcoxon> oh yeah they d
[22:18] <jcoxon> o
[22:18] <Laurenceb> yep
[22:18] <Laurenceb> I'm determined to make a usb stick scanner
[22:18] <jcoxon> hmmm interesting
[22:18] <jcoxon> :-)
[22:18] <Laurenceb> I've more or less worked out all the parts
[22:18] <jcoxon> but that won't be any time soon?
[22:19] <Laurenceb> should be possible to sell it for <£50
[22:19] <Laurenceb> fraid not
[22:19] <jcoxon> would be very cool
[22:19] <Laurenceb> unless I pack in my phd and go into business :P
[22:19] <jcoxon> i'd be happy to be a customer
[22:19] <Laurenceb> yeah they'd seel like hot cakes
[22:19] <Laurenceb> sell*
[22:19] <Laurenceb> it needs a 4 layer pcb
[22:20] <Laurenceb> and I'd have to setup somewhere to make the enclosures
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[22:20] <Laurenceb> so quite a lot of organisation work
[22:21] <Laurenceb> also it would only be feasible if I was placing very large orders
[22:22] <Laurenceb> I'd aim for >1K units in the first production batch
[22:22] <jcoxon> well you'd need to prototype a few first i guess
[22:22] <jcoxon> to make sure it worked
[22:22] <Laurenceb> yeah
[22:22] <Laurenceb> but its using all AD parts
[22:22] <Laurenceb> and they have reference designs
[22:23] <Laurenceb> so not too hard
[22:23] <jcoxon> still
[22:23] Action: jcoxon would be happy with a protype board
[22:23] <jcoxon> would be cool
[22:23] <jcoxon> attach it to a gumstix and fly it
[22:23] <jcoxon> mwhahahah
[22:26] <Laurenceb> :P
[22:26] <Laurenceb> brb
[22:30] <Laurenceb> you may well be able to make something similar from eval boards - I know a guy whos working on a prototype gps SAR using some maxim ICs on eval boards with a few bits of coax to rig things up
[22:31] <jcoxon> hehe, i'm tempted by teh pcr 1000
[22:32] <jcoxon> can't really afford a ham transciver and even though i have a licence don't really transmit
[22:33] <jcoxon> thought i might get a pcr-1000 and also a vhf/uhf radio
[22:33] <jcoxon> perhaps the pcr first and then one day a vhf/uhf
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[22:33] <jcoxon> evening edmoore
[22:34] <edmoore> evening all
[22:34] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[22:34] <Laurenceb> hi ed
[22:35] <edmoore> hi Laurenceb
[22:36] <Laurenceb> stuff like the pcr just seems silly to me when theres ICs avaliable for ~$4 that do the same job
[22:36] <Laurenceb> well a few of them
[22:36] <edmoore> pcr?
[22:36] <Laurenceb> ICOM
[22:36] <jcoxon> icom pcr-1000
[22:36] <Laurenceb> yep
[22:36] <jcoxon> computer controlled scanners
[22:37] <Laurenceb> is what we were discussing
[22:37] <Laurenceb> :P
[22:37] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, but they aren't packaged and require considerable work to make it, as you said
[22:37] <Laurenceb> indeed
[22:37] <Laurenceb> hence my business plan :D
[22:37] <jcoxon> yes yes
[22:38] <edmoore> my ic-7000 has a very comprehensively documented serial control protocol
[22:39] <jcoxon> edmoore, ic-7000 tis way out of my league hehe
[22:39] <Laurenceb> show off
[22:39] <Laurenceb> why not buy a house instead
[22:39] <jcoxon> haha
[22:39] <edmoore> because an ic-7000 is cooler
[22:40] <edmoore> natrium42: we can be cool together
[22:40] <edmoore> we don't need these guys
[22:40] <rjharrison> edmoore the 7000 can decode rtty on the screen
[22:40] <edmoore> I know!
[22:40] <natrium42> edmoore, haha
[22:40] <Laurenceb> will you be heading to brokeback together?
[22:40] <rjharrison> haha
[22:40] <natrium42> ...
[22:40] <rjharrison> lol
[22:40] <jcoxon> they can hug their icoms to keep warm
[22:41] <rjharrison> back to film catch up in a bit
[22:41] <natrium42> edmoore, so we are icom brothers?
[22:41] <jcoxon> transmitting to produce heat
[22:41] <edmoore> natrium42: damn right
[22:42] <edmoore> 100W to keep me company at night
[22:44] <jcoxon> haha
[22:44] <jcoxon> right i better be off
[22:44] <jcoxon> getting up early tomorrow to go to londinium
[22:44] <edmoore> g'luck
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[22:46] <edmoore> should get a psu tomorrow. finally
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[22:47] <edmoore> connections are always reset by peersw
[22:47] <edmoore> peers*
[22:47] <edmoore> why not overlords or minions
[22:47] <edmoore> to make a change
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[22:49] <edmoore> wb natrium42
[22:49] <natrium42> got disconnected for some reason
[22:50] <natrium42> edmoore, speaking of that
[22:50] <natrium42> did you get your intertubes repaired?
[22:50] <edmoore> not yet
[22:50] <edmoore> tomorrow
[22:50] <natrium42> ok
[22:51] <edmoore> will try and get a new isp too
[23:13] <Laurenceb> who are you with?
[23:19] <rjharrison> back
[23:19] <rjharrison> edmoore I fired up the new soldering iron yesterday to fix a connection
[23:20] <edmoore> oooh
[23:20] <rjharrison> What temp should I use to solder?
[23:20] <rjharrison> 350?
[23:20] <edmoore> yep
[23:20] <edmoore> sounds fine
[23:20] <edmoore> just try and be efficient and quick
[23:20] <rjharrison> 5 core .5mm 60/40 rosin
[23:20] <edmoore> don't dump too much heat into an ic (obvious) by keeping it there too long
[23:20] <edmoore> for whatever wire it's no problem
[23:21] <rjharrison> Cool or hot actually
[23:21] <rjharrison> It's great only take 15 secs to reach temp
[23:21] <rjharrison> Have got 90% of beacon working
[23:22] <rjharrison> IQ on 3.3 atmega8 with ext 4MHz occ.
[23:23] <rjharrison> looking to launch next w/e
[23:23] <edmoore> as soon as that? awesome
[23:23] <rjharrison> the following at the latest
[23:24] <edmoore> i guess you could probably have fun with low power modes on that combo
[23:24] <rjharrison> Get your power pack and antenna sorted
[23:24] <edmoore> get a hab to last weeks
[23:24] <edmoore> it will be by then, fo sho
[23:24] <edmoore> might try and knock up a yagi too
[23:24] <rjharrison> I bet you can hardly wait
[23:24] <edmoore> going to visit the scrappy in the hope there's loads of perfect ali rod to make a load of yagis
[23:24] <rjharrison> I love my new yeasu 897
[23:25] <edmoore> is it mobile?
[23:25] <edmoore> it looks pretty serious
[23:25] <rjharrison> Portable if you buy 200 quid of batteries
[23:26] <rjharrison> I have the power pack option attached to the base so I can power with a kettle lead
[23:26] <rjharrison> Have just brough a random wite tuner and an ATU too
[23:26] <edmoore> chunky then :)
[23:26] <edmoore> yeah, am looking at ATus
[23:26] <edmoore> not sure i can afford one just yet
[23:26] <rjharrison> A little lareger than the 7000
[23:26] <edmoore> but the at-7000 looks good
[23:26] <rjharrison> 3kg in weight
[23:27] <edmoore> might just match manually. the sums aren't too hard
[23:27] <rjharrison> the 7000 is awsume I just couldn't justify the extra at the moment
[23:27] <edmoore> i'm going to get a 50mhz roof whip
[23:27] <edmoore> it'll be cool to communicate between chase vehicles of HF
[23:28] <rjharrison> Yep that will be awsume
[23:29] <rjharrison> Will have to bring both radios one ot chat and one to listen
[23:29] <edmoore> indeed
[23:29] <edmoore> though it's a one-button switch over
[23:29] <edmoore> there are two ant sockets on the ic-7000, one for <60Mhz and one for >60Mhz
[23:30] <rjharrison> Yep same on my 897
[23:30] <edmoore> so don't need to physically unplug any ants to switch between balloon and hf
[23:30] <edmoore> can't wait to fire it up
[23:31] <rjharrison> It will be fun getting it connected in the car
[23:31] <rjharrison> 1amp on rx
[23:31] <edmoore> getting the silly dash-mount kit too
[23:31] <rjharrison> cool cool
[23:31] <edmoore> yeah snap - 1A on RX, 22+ on 100W Tx
[23:32] <rjharrison> The 897 is a bit less not sure how much less
[23:32] <rjharrison> 2m will pobably be fine between chase cars unless we get spread out
[23:32] <edmoore> gonna be a happy time for my car battery
[23:32] <edmoore> on 50w it should surely be good for a fair few miles
[23:32] <rjharrison> Yep you suck all the juice out of it with that
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> Watch the volts.
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> car batteries hate cyclic use
[23:33] <edmoore> the engine will be running
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> if you deep cycle them, expect them to fail in a few dozen cycles
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> k
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> But I suppose you'll be doing it with the headlights off to a large extent, which will compensate
[23:34] <edmoore> that's why I'm going for the old Hawker Oddysey SLA batts I know pretty well
[23:34] <edmoore> they love deep cycling
[23:34] <edmoore> this is for battery operation, not use in the car
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:34] <rjharrison> edmoore i'm the same actually 1A - 22A
[23:34] <edmoore> I think it will take me about a year to figure out how to use this thing
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> 50->100W isn't that much of a range increment
[23:35] <rjharrison> haha
[23:35] <rjharrison> I'm the same
[23:35] <edmoore> can do potentially (or not) useful things like acts as a repeater for the balloon
[23:35] <edmoore> can retransmit balloon info on HF to cam
[23:35] <edmoore> or something with a net connection for the distributed server
[23:35] <rjharrison> That would be cool we can put natrium42 to work
[23:36] <edmoore> whilst mobile boradband is all well and good, a completely 'free' system has its appeal
[23:36] <edmoore> infact
[23:36] <edmoore> do we have APRS coverage like the US?~
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> I note that t-mobile costs 1 pound a day
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> for GPRS
[23:36] <edmoore> if so, big extension for the server
[23:36] <edmoore> can re-broadcast on 2m aprs
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> (on PAYG)
[23:36] <edmoore> and the server can grab crap off aprs
[23:37] <Laurenceb> we need balloon to balloon networking
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> mesh!
[23:37] <rjharrison> BTW I menat to ask about your shift 425
[23:37] <edmoore> which is a sort of pre-existing infrastructure. It's just like networks 101 course. OSI-based-confusion
[23:37] <rjharrison> is that seen to be better than a smaller shift
[23:37] <edmoore> i think it reduces inter-symbol interference
[23:38] <edmoore> but I might push to change it if it's not compatible with my ic-7000 :)
[23:38] <rjharrison> Yep I could see that it may be usefull
[23:38] <Laurenceb> shift 425?
[23:38] <rjharrison> Another day we will have to talk about oscilloscopes
[23:38] <Laurenceb> hehe
[23:38] <edmoore> 425hz
[23:38] <Laurenceb> shift?
[23:38] Action: SpeedEvil is happy with his new scope.
[23:38] <rjharrison> betweeen 1 and 0
[23:38] <Laurenceb> between high and low?
[23:38] <Laurenceb> ah
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> I think I've prolly mentioned it.
[23:39] <rjharrison> Yep the nige digital one
[23:39] <rjharrison> nicew
[23:39] <Laurenceb> a techtronics
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> well - cheapest of the 60MHz models from china, not really very nice :)
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> But nice would cost lots more than my car.
[23:40] <Laurenceb> ah seen those on ebay
[23:40] <Laurenceb> any good?
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> Owon.
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> I got mine from rapidonline.com
[23:41] <Laurenceb> ah
[23:41] <Laurenceb> wasnt it overpriced?
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> who are at least more likely than not to be around for the guarantee period.
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> Actually, competitive with eaby.
[23:41] <Laurenceb> nice
[23:42] <rjharrison> edmoore you can keep 425
[23:42] <rjharrison> page 123 of the 7000 manual
[23:43] <Laurenceb> I think the best shift depends on the receiving software
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> ISI may be zero for certain baudrates with certain shifts in theory
[23:43] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Test-Equipment/Oscilloscopes/PDS-Series-2-channel-colour-oscilloscopes/80709/kw/owon though it's gone up 50 quid since I got it.
[23:44] <Laurenceb> to be honest I'm not sure on the best way to recieve pulse shaped AFSK
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> SDR!
[23:44] <Laurenceb> sure
[23:44] <Laurenceb> as in the technique
[23:45] <Laurenceb> I mean a PLL is the easy way
[23:45] <Laurenceb> but I dont think its optimal
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> I'd start out with two virtual carriers at the 1 and 0 freqs
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> multiply by those into I and Q channels, and then filter the output
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> then take the I and Q and go to a phase and amplitude for each frequency
[23:47] <Laurenceb> and?
[23:47] <rjharrison> right night time
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> Well - sample the two frequency outputs at the bitrate, using an early/late gate
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> for tracking of the bitrate, with an overall PLL to keep you locked on freq
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison: night
[23:48] <Laurenceb> sure
[23:48] <Laurenceb> cya
[23:48] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc:
[23:48] <Laurenceb> but that technique will suffer if you use pulse shaping
[23:48] <edmoore> ISI can always be theoretically zero
[23:48] <Laurenceb> e.g a 01010101010 sequence will result in lower amplitude outputs
[23:48] <edmoore> good luck managing it though
[23:49] <edmoore> zero forcing filters with a practical no of coefficients etc are not really very real-world
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> If you replace the single output of the I and Q channels that you're sampling with a IF of .1KHz or so, and take the total energy in that .1KHz instead, that'll be more flexible
[23:52] <Laurenceb> hmm I still dont see how you make it work
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> Or you could do a maximal likelyhood thing. Synthesize a shaped signal going from 1->0 and staying at 1->1 for this bit-time, and compare.
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> However, I have only really done sums and simulations for GPS, not any other mods.
[23:53] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:53] <Laurenceb> thats what I was just thinking
[23:53] <Laurenceb> it really needs a synthesized shaped signal
[23:56] <Laurenceb> guess you can work out the optimal spacing if you assume some white background noise
[23:57] <Laurenceb> then find how it couples into the shaped signal
[23:57] <Laurenceb> relative to the amplitude of the coupled signal
[23:57] <Laurenceb> diff that function and put it = 0
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> Genetic algorithms.
[23:57] <Laurenceb> for the optimal SNR
[23:58] <SpeedEvil> Evolve a radio!
[23:58] <Laurenceb> or good old algebra
[23:58] <SpeedEvil> Evolution means no sums!
[23:58] <Laurenceb> erm its not that hard
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> Yeah
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> I'm currently suffering from brain fade trying to come up with nice fast SDR algorithms for GPS.
[00:00] <Laurenceb> I have some basic matlab code somewhere
[00:00] --- Mon Dec 29 2008