highaltitude.log.20081224

[00:00] <jcoxon> oh - i'm back!
[00:01] <natrium42> ohai jcoxon
[00:02] <natrium42> i just ordered a gm862-gps :D
[00:02] <natrium42> and 3 chutes (48", 56" and 60")
[00:02] <jcoxon> oh cool
[00:02] <jcoxon> good good
[00:04] <jcoxon> right all pictures rotated
[00:13] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc:
[00:23] <Laurenceb> gtg
[00:23] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-133-67-102.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "The day microsoft make something that doesnt suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner"
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[08:25] <Xenion> Guten Morgen / Good Morning folks ! :-)
[09:39] <gordonjcp> morning
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[11:44] <rjharrison_> morning all
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[15:53] <rjharrison> ping edmore
[17:28] <edmoore> yo
[17:29] <edmoore> rjharrison
[17:29] <edmoore> sorry, was at christingle
[17:29] <edmoore> 11 year old nelson dressed up smartly and having to poot out a dire rendition of 'little donkey' before a congregation
[17:29] <edmoore> he will grow up to hate his parents
[17:29] <edmoore> on the saxophone, this is
[17:30] <edmoore> which he has just taken up
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[17:54] <edmoore> hi mc-
[17:59] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:07] <mc-> hi edmoore
[18:08] <mc-> how's it going?
[18:08] <edmoore> christmassily, but otherwise good.
[18:08] <edmoore> you?
[18:09] <mc-> good, finally got some time off, to do fun stuff.
[18:09] <mc-> just done a clever /3 routine
[18:10] <mc-> uses the series x/3=x/2-x/4+x/8-...etc
[18:10] <Hiena> Merry Xmass!
[18:11] <mc-> same to you
[18:12] <edmoore> nice
[18:12] <edmoore> fixed point?
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> *4-1
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> <<2
[18:13] Action: SpeedEvil should be ignored.
[18:13] Action: SpeedEvil has a toothache
[18:13] <mc-> yes, sort of fixed point, I shift left a few places, then /3, then shift right
[18:13] <Hiena> As the persent for the members of the channels i gives you a nev recipte: Mix 50% ammonium-nitrate, 20% charcoal or powdered sugar and 30% grinded rubber from a tire. The results is a nice fast burner mixture.
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> And I suspect would cure my toothache.
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> Do be very sure of what you're doing, ammonium nitrate treated wrong can be very unfriendly.
[18:15] <mc-> a sugar rocket makes an excellent low cost booster stage
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> sugar/KNO3 can't however go high order if you get confused about proportions :)
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> google richard nakka sugar
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> for a good site.
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> Or at least it was 3-4 years ago.
[18:17] <mc-> and http://sugarshot.org/
[18:17] Action: SpeedEvil wonders on sugar substitute and colours.
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> Sucralose - as a chlorine donor
[18:20] <mc-> for a booster, it's best to burn sugar from the outside of a core, then it has a large impulse which trails off.
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> well...
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> For a booster of moderate size (under a few tons GLOW)
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> going supersonic _REALLY_ hurts.
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> I wonder about even end burners.
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> As you'd really need ~60s burn times.
[18:21] <mc-> I don't think sugarshot to 100km from the ground is possible
[18:21] <Hiena> Actually the ammonium-nitrate has higher reaction point as the KNO3 which makes much more stable. Somehow the carcoal has no enough heat to make the reaction.
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> Ammonium nitrate is more stable than KNO3 - but once it's going it can detonate of its ownsome.
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> mc-: sure it is.
[18:23] <Hiena> Also, the common fertiliser grade ammoniumnitrate soaked with water, which makes a handling better.
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> mc-: just single stage is going to be tricky
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: err - not really AIUI it's got a binder coat - which also acts as a debombifying agent to a degree.
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> It's not warter./
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> mc-: and you're going to need guidance - or at least spin stabilisation.
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> 60s at mach 1 looks plausible for sugar ISP, and a small payload.
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> That gets you to 20Km or so, and then a modest second stage'd do it.
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> second stage with a teeny payload.
[18:27] <Hiena> The coat is different. For the detonation need the crystal humidity under the 8% and the heating over 180 degree Celsius. For the desensitivation they adds at least 20% water, which is right on the decomposition limiz.
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: do you have a clue on this, or are you reading from webpages?
[18:28] Action: SpeedEvil has little clue.
[18:28] <Hiena> I worked for a fertiliser company.
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> This is based on rather old research I did in passing.
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> Fertiliser companies have to take care of this shit.
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> Owing to the large holes in the ground when they diddn't :/
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> I had major shakes, when I realised I'd been heating it over the possible detonation temp to dry out some solution.
[18:30] <Hiena> The coat keeps the watered ammonium nitrate in a workable form. If you grind it, you will get a wet sandlike material, which stick together.
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> 'Only' 500g or so.
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.thefintels.com/aer/sbs1350.htm interesting.
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> However, I stopped looking at solids.
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> To legally make solids in the UK - as far as I see it - needs a fireworks factory license.
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> As far as I know, liquids don't.
[18:37] <mc-> is the license only needed to transport the motor? If you mix it and light it in one place, then how can you require a license?
[18:55] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc1-glfd1-0-0-cust487.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left irc:
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> Because you're making a firework, under the meanings of the fireworks act
[19:21] <edmoore> too late
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> to comply with this you need stupid stuff - IIRC 60000 pound application fee, large safety distances, ...
[19:21] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
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[20:07] <Scrooge> bah humbug
[20:08] Nick change: Scrooge -> Laurenceb
[21:03] <Laurenceb> natrium42: thats interesting
[21:04] <Laurenceb> I'm trying to work out ow it works..
[21:05] <Laurenceb> looks like they built gps into the gsm frontend or something
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> what do you mean?
[21:06] <Laurenceb> the t-mobile g-1
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> I seem to remember it's a simple software GPS solution.
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> I haven't looked closely.
[21:07] <Laurenceb> http://www.phonewreck.com/2008/12/09/t-mobile-g1-review-and-teardown/
[21:07] <natrium42> how would that work?
[21:08] <Laurenceb> that diagram is quite breif
[21:08] <natrium42> it needs at least a gps frontend
[21:08] Action: SpeedEvil lookls
[21:08] <Laurenceb> but it appears to be on the main processor die
[21:08] <Laurenceb> if that is to be believed
[21:08] <Laurenceb> maybe they built in correlators...
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> no
[21:08] <Laurenceb> but where is the front end
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> that'll be the software GPS side
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> it takes - prolly - a 18MHz 1 bit digitised 1MHz IF
[21:08] <Laurenceb> sure
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> or similar
[21:09] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:09] <Laurenceb> but that would be a rather horrid overhead
[21:09] <Laurenceb> without a bit of hardware acceleration
[21:09] <natrium42> question is, does it work at altitude? :P
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: putting the correlators on the CPU is cheap
[21:10] <Laurenceb> sure
[21:10] <Laurenceb> I was wondering where the frontend is
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> possibly integrated into the wifi
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> I note an unidentified chip next to the wifi power amp
[21:13] <Laurenceb> yeah most of the frontends are ~ 4mm square or less
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> I don't see the GPS antenna
[21:14] <Laurenceb> it must share it
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> Actually.
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely recall that it may have no proper GPS, but use the mobile net
[21:15] <Laurenceb> yeah it does
[21:16] <Laurenceb> but it does use actual gps signals apparently
[21:16] <Laurenceb> its assisted gps
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> ok, I must have been thinking of something else
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[21:32] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[22:48] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: looks like it uses "gpsone"
[22:48] <Laurenceb> whatever that is
[22:57] <Laurenceb> hmm looks like it reuses the GSM/CDMA frontend to do GPS downconversion
[22:57] <Laurenceb> seems sensible
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[23:56] <Laurenceb> happy christmas folks
[00:00] --- Thu Dec 25 2008