highaltitude.log.20081202

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[09:41] <Laurenceb> hello
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[10:07] <rjharrison_> Hi fergusnoble congrats for yeaterday
[10:07] <rjharrison_> yesterday
[10:07] <rjharrison_> Any pictures up yet?
[10:11] <rjharrison_> I got the http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/PICT0492.JPG
[10:16] <Laurenceb> oh dear
[10:16] <Laurenceb> a whole new level of madness
[10:16] <Laurenceb> "why? because we can!!!!!"
[10:26] <rjharrison_> It's cool. They are doing an outreach project with a school and the kids insulated the bears as best they could. Each bear had a temp sensor in and the best insulated won!
[10:30] <Laurenceb> ah cool
[10:30] <Laurenceb> didnt realise they head temp sensors
[10:40] <rjharrison_> 5 Sensors in all. One for each bear and one internally. The data was interesting I'm not sure they have posted it yet but I could recieve it here in Leeds
[10:41] <rjharrison_> receive
[10:42] <Laurenceb> yeah fergus was saying I2C bus
[10:43] <Laurenceb> I'm trying to learn VHDL atm, its like basic
[10:43] <Laurenceb> not sure I admire the syntax
[10:44] <fergusnoble> hi
[10:44] <fergusnoble> ive got a praph of the temp data iuw
[10:44] <Laurenceb> hi fergus
[10:44] <fergusnoble> *graph
[10:44] <Laurenceb> neat
[10:44] <Laurenceb> gnuplot ftw
[10:45] <fergusnoble> http://fergusnoble.co.uk/~fergusnoble/nova9/temps.pdf
[10:45] <fergusnoble> purple was inside the payload case, the others were the bears
[10:46] <Laurenceb> hmm interesting
[10:46] <Laurenceb> similar to what I've observed before
[10:46] <rjharrison_> Interesting the internal only dropped negative on the descent?
[10:46] <Laurenceb> the thermal mass of the tronics tends to keep it warm inside
[10:46] <rjharrison_> What the bottom axis time>
[10:46] <Laurenceb> more than the heat
[10:47] <Laurenceb> sample number :P
[10:47] <fergusnoble> its in milliseconds
[10:47] <rjharrison_> Nice unit
[10:47] <Laurenceb> the higher airspeed during the descent cools down the tronics
[10:47] <rjharrison_> I'm sure the school kids will follow that :)
[10:47] <rjharrison_> Yep
[10:48] <fergusnoble> hehe, this was just a quick version o bashed out
[10:48] <Laurenceb> looks luike the bear temperatures follow the atmospheric temperature quite well
[10:48] <Laurenceb> you can see the tropopause very clearly
[10:48] <rjharrison_> I'm not sure I would have gone for milliseconds. Not second nature to me unless you had that data with the temps then it makes sense
[10:49] <rjharrison_> Yep Very good that
[10:49] <fergusnoble> i made up a temperature against altitude graph from this data
[10:49] <Laurenceb> at approx 0.7
[10:49] <fergusnoble> 1 sec
[10:49] <Laurenceb> cool
[10:49] <Laurenceb> this should be good
[10:49] <fergusnoble> it doesnt look great though
[10:49] <Laurenceb> :P
[10:49] <rjharrison_> Good data guys!
[10:50] <Laurenceb> yeah the thermal mass and insulation will cause hysterisys
[10:50] <fergusnoble> it looks like i think it should, but really noisy
[10:50] <fergusnoble> and yes, its a big hysterisys loop
[10:50] <Laurenceb> interesting that the electronics gets so hot
[10:51] <Laurenceb> I reached 30C during some of my min rogallo tests and was quite worried :P
[10:51] <Laurenceb> so, red bear wins :D
[10:52] <soneil> poor bears
[10:52] <rjharrison_> The good news is that my -55 dallas temp sensors are going to stay in range
[10:52] <Laurenceb> hehe just
[10:52] <rjharrison_> hysterisys now thats a nice word
[10:52] <Laurenceb> how are you driving them?
[10:53] <rjharrison_> fergusnoble You going uload the alt one?
[10:53] <Laurenceb> its a nice way to describe a fairly hard to describe concept
[10:53] <rjharrison_> LM55's
[10:53] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: are you use 1 wire?
[10:53] <fergusnoble> yeah, about to upload, just fetching it off the eee
[10:54] <Laurenceb> yet the microscope out to read that screen :P
[10:54] <Laurenceb> *get
[10:54] <fergusnoble> http://fergusnoble.co.uk/~fergusnoble/nova9/tempalt.pdf
[10:54] <rjharrison_> Laurenceb Yep
[10:55] <Laurenceb> erm
[10:55] <Laurenceb> wtf
[10:55] <fergusnoble> actually, that looks a bit special
[10:56] <Laurenceb> ok.... I guess it kind of makes sense
[10:56] <Laurenceb> tropopause at ~9.5Km
[10:56] <fergusnoble> i did it by interpolating the temps
[10:56] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropopause
[10:56] <fergusnoble> but didnt have web access to i wrote my own code to do it, so it could well be wrong
[10:57] <Laurenceb> wikipedia says 8Km to 17Km
[10:57] <Laurenceb> its lower near the poles and in winter
[10:57] <Laurenceb> so 9.5 sounds good
[10:57] <fergusnoble> ok cool
[10:58] <Laurenceb> temperature rises slowly in the stratosphere
[11:00] <Laurenceb> hmm with the low thermal mass of the bears, you may have been best painting the "suits" black
[11:01] <Laurenceb> wikipedia says -56.5C
[11:01] <fergusnoble> im not sure how much they know about radiative heat transfer
[11:01] <Laurenceb> that seems a bit too accurate for my liking
[11:03] <Laurenceb> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/EarthAtmosphereBig.jpg mesosphere is our next target :P
[11:04] <Laurenceb> IIRC JAXA got to 56Km
[11:05] <Laurenceb> yeah, using 2.8um polythene
[11:06] <Laurenceb> mad stuff
[11:07] <rjharrison_> I'm hoping to nip in there too in the next few weeks
[11:08] <rjharrison_> Going for an open envelope.
[11:09] <Laurenceb> your making a zero pressure?
[11:09] <rjharrison_> Yep
[11:09] <Laurenceb> hey cool
[11:09] <Laurenceb> how are you going to do the plastic welding?
[11:09] <rjharrison_> Dome for me
[11:09] <Laurenceb> ?
[11:10] <Laurenceb> your going to fill the millenium dome with helium ?
[11:11] <rjharrison_> done for me I have a solar balloon from hawkins catalog about 15meters long and 1m dia.
[11:11] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:11] <Laurenceb> fergus: did you get the Sd card working?
[11:12] <fergusnoble> not yet :(
[11:12] <rjharrison_> Should hold about 15 m3 of helium. Launch at 1m3
[11:12] <fergusnoble> it was being even wierder last launch
[11:12] <fergusnoble> logged the first half of each gps fix string, but not the second
[11:13] <Laurenceb> :(
[11:13] <Laurenceb> I fixed my eeprom logging
[11:13] <Laurenceb> your welcome to use my eeprom logging code :P
[11:14] <Laurenceb> fergus: you've tried it with lots of different cards and spi speeds?
[11:14] <rjharrison_> BTW fergusnoble did the balloon come back with the payload this time
[11:14] <fergusnoble> im sure its only a small thing wrong with this code
[11:15] <fergusnoble> as 90% of it is from the elm fatfs library, which should just work
[11:15] <fergusnoble> rjharrison_: yeah, we didnt put a cutdown in
[11:15] <Laurenceb> oh god that
[11:16] <Laurenceb> hehe I tried to get that working and gave up
[11:16] <rjharrison_> Ther're crap those balloons. I think I have only heard of one launch where the balloon didn't come back
[11:16] <fergusnoble> what? are they not supposed to?
[11:16] <Laurenceb> eh I dont follow
[11:17] <rjharrison_> I think they are ment to pop into a thousand bits
[11:17] <rjharrison_> And only the nossel comes back.
[11:17] <rjharrison_> Makes sense?
[11:17] <fergusnoble> i see
[11:17] <fergusnoble> actually we have seen that in one video we took
[11:17] <fergusnoble> lots of little bits of balloon raining past
[11:18] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:18] <rjharrison_> In most recoveries 100% balloon returns in shreds
[11:18] <Laurenceb> not really
[11:18] <Laurenceb> you've lots a lot opf the total mass
[11:18] <rjharrison_> Leads to bad para deployment.
[11:18] <Laurenceb> true
[11:18] <fergusnoble> yeah, it is a pain
[11:19] <rjharrison_> In my launch the payload became the para as the mass of the balloon = 1.k kg and the payload = 0.5kg
[11:19] <rjharrison_> balloon = 1.2kg
[11:21] <Laurenceb> fergus: where was the landing site?
[11:22] <fergusnoble> near ipswitch
[11:22] <Laurenceb> quite far
[11:22] <fergusnoble> yeah, the wind was wierd
[11:22] <Laurenceb> high stratospheric wind?
[11:22] <fergusnoble> there was a fast eastwards layer of wind above the layer shown on wunderground
[11:23] <fergusnoble> luckily we checked rob's model
[11:23] <Laurenceb> http://fergusnoble.co.uk/~fergusnoble/nova9/Pages/378.html
[11:23] <Laurenceb> they always land near pylons
[11:24] <fergusnoble> thats just because pylons are everywhere
[11:37] <Laurenceb> I seriously want to make my own scanner
[11:37] <Laurenceb> http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/ADL5387.pdf
[11:40] <Laurenceb> together with http://www.analog.com/en/rfif-components/pll-synthesizersvcos/ADF4360-7/products/product.html
[11:40] <Laurenceb> could be really awsome
[11:51] <Laurenceb> fergus: is the badger board 4 layer?
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[14:31] <rjharrison_> .
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[16:28] <Laurenceb> hi EI5GTB
[16:28] <EI5GTB> haiu
[16:28] <EI5GTB> how goes it?
[16:29] <Laurenceb> not so bad
[16:30] <Laurenceb> still keen on building a quad copter?
[16:30] <EI5GTB> yea, but iv decided to put it on hold while i increase my knowledge in the required ares =/
[16:31] <Laurenceb> I've changed my mind about a simple 3 AVR based design
[16:32] <Laurenceb> I think its possible, based on my matlab simulations
[16:32] <Laurenceb> if you make it RC controlled
[16:32] <EI5GTB> hmm
[16:33] <EI5GTB> brb, gotta restart this dam windoze
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[16:33] <Laurenceb> :P
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[16:37] Nick change: EI5GTBG -> EI5GTB
[16:37] <EI5GTB> hai
[16:38] <Laurenceb> hello
[16:39] <Laurenceb> yeah, I think you could make something usiong 4 brushed motors running off pwm from an atmega168
[16:39] <Laurenceb> then using a sparkfun 5 DOF IMU together with a third gyro
[16:39] <EI5GTB> hmm
[16:40] <Laurenceb> you could control it with a hacked futaba receiver
[16:41] <EI5GTB> i see
[16:41] <Laurenceb> http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/index.php/Other_Hardware
[16:41] <Laurenceb> like so :P
[16:42] <EI5GTB> i see
[16:42] <EI5GTB> yea, ithink i need to play with microcontrollers more first tho
[16:43] <EI5GTB> before i have the required knowledge to do all this
[16:43] <EI5GTB> then i need to actually understand kalman filtering
[16:43] <Laurenceb> I'd be happy to help you write a filter
[16:43] <EI5GTB> yea, but foer self satisfaction i would like at least understand whats going on
[16:44] <Laurenceb> always helps
[16:45] <Laurenceb> hows the uC stuff going?
[16:45] <Laurenceb> got LCDs going?
[16:46] <EI5GTB> not yet, was at my ham club meeting last night so didnt get a change to mess with it, but im hoping i might get it running this evening
[16:46] <Laurenceb> wish I had a ham club to go to
[16:46] <Laurenceb> hmmm ham
[16:47] <Laurenceb> om nom nom nom
[16:47] <EI5GTB> lol
[16:47] <EI5GTB> yea, well, i dint have a ham club to go to until i set one up :P
[16:47] <EI5GTB> http://radioexperimenters.com
[16:47] <Laurenceb> nice work
[16:47] <Laurenceb> many members?
[16:48] <EI5GTB> about 10
[16:48] <EI5GTB> had 3 more come along last night
[16:48] <Laurenceb> ah I see
[16:48] <Laurenceb> *waves*
[16:48] <EI5GTB> heh
[16:49] <EI5GTB> im hoping to do a baloon as a vlub project
[16:49] <EI5GTB> still having no luck getting permission from the IAA
[16:49] <Laurenceb> very nice website
[16:49] <EI5GTB> thasnks :)
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[17:22] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[17:23] <edmoore> hi Laurenceb
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[17:33] <Laurenceb> I finally fixed the I2C eeprom
[17:38] <Laurenceb> http://www.circuitcellar.com/AVR2006/winners.htm
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[17:56] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7761025.stm
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[18:09] <Laurenceb> edmoore: do you have any photos of the badger board?
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[18:21] <fergusnoble> hello
[18:21] <fergusnoble> rjharrison_: the badger is only 2 layer
[18:21] <fergusnoble> (for now :) )
[18:22] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: no photos of the badger in its current state im afraid
[18:22] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: its pretty ugly looking anyway
[18:23] <Laurenceb> :/
[18:23] <Laurenceb> thought there were some early construction photos?
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[18:23] <Laurenceb> just wanted to remind myself what it looks like :P
[18:23] <fergusnoble> there are some of the bare pcb somewhere i think
[18:24] <fergusnoble> its going to change shape a bit with the next revision
[18:24] <Laurenceb> *uses the log search*
[18:24] <fergusnoble> the original was designed to fit into an altoids tin, although thats no longer the case
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[18:27] <Laurenceb> hehe
[18:27] <Laurenceb> yeah, do you have any photos of its assembly up still?
[18:27] <fergusnoble> erm, i dont have them on my computer, ed may still have them
[18:28] <fergusnoble> you can grab the layout off our svn though if you like
[18:28] <Laurenceb> nvm, just thopught the phots were hidden on cu spaceflight somewhere
[18:32] <fergusnoble> just looked thourgh all the images on there, not there sorry
[18:32] <fergusnoble> we will do a write up at some point
[18:35] <Laurenceb> cool
[18:40] <Laurenceb> I'm off, cya guys
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[20:48] <Xenion> Good Evening :-)
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[21:12] <rjharrison> Evening all
[21:12] <rjharrison> Master noble nice pics
[21:17] <rjharrison> Hi natrium
[21:23] <natrium> hi
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[22:00] <natrium> master jcoxon
[22:04] <jcoxon> good evening natrium
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[22:19] <rjharrison> Evening ll
[22:19] <rjharrison> all
[22:19] <rjharrison> working on the beacon tonight
[22:19] <EI5GTB> beacon?
[22:19] <EI5GTB> ham?>
[22:19] <rjharrison> Getting the logomatic v2 working from sparkfun
[22:19] <rjharrison> Nar Icarus
[22:23] <natrium> rjharrison, when do you plan launch?
[22:53] <rjharrison> Sorry doing to many things at one
[22:53] <rjharrison> once
[22:53] <rjharrison> 6 weeks I think
[22:53] <rjharrison> Though could be sooner if I get an oportunity
[22:55] <natrium> k, nice
[22:58] <rjharrison> Will keep you informed want a good day for pics
[22:58] <rjharrison> I'm going to launch an envelope soon too
[22:59] <rjharrison> 45k-50k with a bit of luck
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[23:05] <rjharrison> Wee... Logomatic working now
[23:05] <rjharrison> No more lost data
[23:09] <natrium> yay
[23:11] <rjharrison> Will have complete log
[23:12] <rjharrison> Povided that I get the payload back
[23:28] Action: EI5GTB just got lcds working :D
[23:28] <EI5GTB> http://paulsnet.org/lcd/DSC_4375.JPG
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[23:34] <Laurenceb> hi guys
[23:34] <wickerwaka> call 087-9643436 for hot avr action
[23:34] <Laurenceb> hmmmm
[23:34] <Laurenceb> ooh yeah flash those chips baby
[23:35] <wickerwaka> are there any smaller microcontrollers than the 6-pin PIC10s?
[23:41] <EI5GTB> hahaha, lol
[23:41] <EI5GTB> thats a phone number of a double bassist here
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[23:53] <Laurenceb> flash that flash memory for like a man rjharrison
[23:55] <Laurenceb> ignore me
[23:57] <EI5GTB> right, cant figure out how to put numbers on the screen, so im off, night
[00:00] --- Wed Dec 3 2008