highaltitude.log.20081123

[00:27] fergusnoble (n=fergusno@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[00:27] borism (n=boris@195-50-204-153-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[00:31] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
[00:36] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[00:37] <jcoxon> whats up?
[00:37] <natrium42> just back from tennis
[00:37] <natrium42> going to work on dserial library
[00:37] <natrium42> or people will start bugging me soon
[00:38] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:38] <jcoxon> i'm off to be in the next 10 mins :-p
[00:38] <natrium42> aah
[00:38] <natrium42> bah
[00:38] <natrium42> who needs sleep!
[00:39] <jcoxon> me!
[00:39] <jcoxon> got to get up tomorrow and continue writing this essay
[00:40] <natrium42> what essay?
[00:41] <jcoxon> oh its one of my modules, 8000 words on photodynamic therapy
[00:41] <jcoxon> did 2700 today, aim to do about hte same tomorrow and similar next weekend and i'll be sorted
[00:41] <natrium42> wow, big essay
[00:41] Action: natrium42 is glad he's in math
[00:42] <jcoxon> yeah its a little extreme
[00:42] <jcoxon> same length as my dissertation for my bachelors
[00:47] fergusnoble (n=fergusno@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) left #highaltitude.
[00:55] <jcoxon> night all
[00:55] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-198-244.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[01:10] <Laurenceb> cya all
[01:10] Laurenceb (i=83e3dd6d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-769e5cece3072076) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[01:54] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude.
[02:00] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[02:15] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[03:54] gregHome (n=gleblanc@75.108.2.123) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[05:00] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[07:34] JediatNight (n=JediatNi@unaffiliated/jediatnight) joined #highaltitude.
[07:35] JediatNight (n=JediatNi@unaffiliated/jediatnight) left #highaltitude ("Konversation terminated!").
[08:30] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[10:13] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@86.163.198.244) joined #highaltitude.
[10:17] <jcoxon> morning all
[10:18] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:18] <edmoore> morning all
[10:18] <edmoore> jcoxon: happy sunday to you
[10:28] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[10:29] <jcoxon> how are you this freezing cold sunday?
[10:29] <edmoore> in west sussex
[10:29] <edmoore> got up before sunrise and blased down
[10:29] <edmoore> m25 was slowed to 30mph with the crappy weather
[10:29] <edmoore> but there's a fire going so i am happy
[10:29] <edmoore> u?
[10:30] <jcoxon> i'm pretty toast as i'm still in bed
[10:30] <jcoxon> but need to get up in 10 mins to go to the library to work :-(
[10:31] <jcoxon> toastie*
[10:34] borism (n=boris@195-50-200-9-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[10:36] <edmoore> why working on a sunday?
[10:36] <jcoxon> cause i have a bad ass essay to write
[10:37] <jcoxon> and also exams in 2 weeks time
[10:45] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[11:00] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@86.163.198.244) left irc: "Leaving"
[11:05] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[11:05] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:38] jcoxon (i=zeusbot@lister.antycip.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:41] <jcoxon> phew, made it - got completely soaked
[11:42] <edmoore> jcoxon: a brave a noble effort
[11:42] <edmoore> it is proper crappy out there
[11:43] <jcoxon> its terrible, but this library is nice and warm so i'm happy
[11:49] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[12:35] fergusnoble (n=fergusno@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:45] Ansharus (n=vrptnc@88.103-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) joined #highaltitude.
[12:46] <jcoxon> hey fergusnoble
[12:46] <Ansharus> hello everyone
[12:46] <fergusnoble> hi jcoxon
[12:47] <Ansharus> was wondering of anyone could help me out
[12:47] <Ansharus> I'm planning to make a (reusable) high altitude balloon
[12:47] <Ansharus> however, I don't have any experience at all
[12:47] <Ansharus> anyone know where a good place to start would be
[12:48] <jcoxon> Ansharus: this is a good place to start :-D
[12:49] <Ansharus> kind of figured that one out by myself ;-)
[12:49] <jcoxon> what would the general aim be? getting as high as possible? take pictures? science?
[12:49] <Ansharus> well yes
[12:49] <Ansharus> get as high as possible
[12:49] <Ansharus> take some pictures
[12:49] <Ansharus> and recover as much as possible
[12:50] <jcoxon> and by reusable do you mean the payload or the actually balloon?
[12:50] <Ansharus> well, I don't really know if it's possible to recover the balloon itself.
[12:51] <jcoxon> it isn't really possible to recover the balloon, you'd have to vent it
[12:51] <Ansharus> if I could only recover the payload, that would already be a great achievment
[12:51] <jcoxon> we let them burst
[12:51] <jcoxon> instead
[12:51] <jcoxon> Ansharus: where are you based?
[12:51] <Ansharus> Belgium
[12:51] <Ansharus> lots of open fields here :)
[12:51] <jcoxon> okay cool
[12:51] <jcoxon> :-)
[12:51] Laurenceb (i=83e3dd6d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8b9f23f35ba8ba9d) joined #highaltitude.
[12:52] <jcoxon> well there a loads of options available
[12:52] <Ansharus> I'm actually a student in electronics
[12:52] <Ansharus> so that woudn't really be a problem
[12:52] <Ansharus> The real problem would be making the mechanical system and things like that
[12:52] <jcoxon> check out http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk , http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk , http://natrium42.com/halo/flight2/
[12:53] <Ansharus> k
[12:53] <Ansharus> will do
[12:53] <jcoxon> the mechanical bits aren't too difficult
[12:53] <jcoxon> often there aren't really any
[12:53] <jcoxon> the most important thing is to get a reliable communication system which is harder then it often appears
[12:53] <jcoxon> i still haven't achieved it :-p
[12:54] <Ansharus> yeah, was already thinking about that :s
[12:54] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:55] <Ansharus> which kind of communication is (most often) used to communicate between the balloon and the ground?
[12:55] <jcoxon> well in the UK we use licence exempt radio on 434Mhz often as RTTY
[12:55] <Ansharus> low frequency radio?
[12:55] <Ansharus> ow
[12:55] <Ansharus> ok
[12:55] <jcoxon> and then GSM modems for when it lands as you often lose contact radio wise
[12:57] <Ansharus> I guess the ballons that are being used are all fabricated by expert companies
[12:57] <Ansharus> do you have any suggestions on what would be a good price vs. quality company?
[12:57] <jcoxon> yeah, its not difficult to get hold of weather balloons
[12:58] <jcoxon> http://www.randomsolutions.co.uk/top.htm
[12:58] <edmoore> Ansharus: where are you based?
[12:58] <Ansharus> Belgium
[12:58] <jcoxon> the guy who runs that site gets them from the US, its quite involved in ballooning here in the uk
[12:58] <Ansharus> north of Antwerp
[12:59] <Ansharus> thnx a lot
[12:59] <Ansharus> don't really know if there is a high altitude community here in Belgium
[13:00] <Ansharus> if not, there ought to be
[13:00] <jcoxon> :-)
[13:00] <fergusnoble> edmoore: hello
[13:01] <jcoxon> Ansharus: UKHAS has become a bit more global these days
[13:01] <jcoxon> so you are very welcome to be involved!
[13:01] <jcoxon> perhaps we launch a balloon and get it to land in Belgium :-)
[13:01] <Ansharus> lol
[13:01] <Ansharus> that would be awesome
[13:02] <jcoxon> would have to get the weather just right, could well be done
[13:02] <edmoore> easily :)
[13:02] <edmoore> range isn't the issue, just direction
[13:03] <jcoxon> edmoore: we need to build a network of people in europe to collect our balloons when they go astray
[13:03] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@212.183.136.193) joined #highaltitude.
[13:03] <Laurenceb> hehe
[13:03] <rjharrison_> afternoon all
[13:03] <Laurenceb> hi guys
[13:03] <rjharrison_> Jost on my way south from glasgow
[13:03] <Laurenceb> glasgow
[13:04] <Laurenceb> thats a fair distance
[13:04] <edmoore> hi rjharrison_
[13:04] <rjharrison_> Little bit of snow on the ground
[13:04] <edmoore> Laurenceb: tell me a secret in the proper place
[13:04] <rjharrison_> Been up here for the annual partners meeting from work
[13:04] <rjharrison_> Got to use my MM6RJH callsign
[13:05] <Laurenceb> that had the wrong connotations
[13:05] <rjharrison_> No launches this w/e I assume>
[13:05] <rjharrison_> ?
[13:05] <jcoxon> nothing here
[13:05] <Laurenceb> mini rogallo should be ready soon
[13:05] <jcoxon> in the US there have been some launches
[13:05] <Laurenceb> but probably 2 or 3 weeks
[13:05] <rjharrison_> Well at least I didn't miss anything
[13:06] <rjharrison_> I'll be ready my then. There is a posibility that Icarus may be ready to launch next w/e
[13:06] <rjharrison_> Probably sunday if the weather behaves
[13:06] <jcoxon> rjharrison_: from where?
[13:08] <rjharrison_> Cambridge
[13:08] <rjharrison_> If anyones arround
[13:08] <rjharrison_> and it's not a problem
[13:08] <rjharrison_> I'm in no rush these days
[13:08] <rjharrison_> :)
[13:09] <rjharrison_> .
[13:09] Nick change: rjharrison_ -> rjharrison
[13:10] <rjharrison> edmoore how is the CUSF project going? You guys are ready for launch too, are you not?
[13:10] <edmoore> when the weather is good
[13:12] <rjharrison> edmoore You guys are still on 434.650?
[13:13] <rjharrison> I'v replaced to 434.075 so I guess technically we could launch at the same time
[13:13] <edmoore> i think so yeah - i don't think it makes a great deal of difference to us - fergusnoble ?
[13:15] <fergusnoble> we're still on .650
[13:15] Ansharus (n=vrptnc@88.103-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) left irc:
[13:15] <fergusnoble> need to buy some more modules
[13:15] <rjharrison> I need to have a chat with rocketboy and get some more balloons in stock. I have a 1500 for the next lauch but it would be good to have a backup
[13:15] <fergusnoble> but yeah, it doesnt seem to affect us so much
[13:16] <rjharrison> fergusnoble R U going to go to 434.075?
[13:16] <fergusnoble> maybe just because people cant decode the telem and come after us :)
[13:16] <fergusnoble> yeah, we will probaly change over at some point
[13:17] <rjharrison> I personally think that even if you did cause some interferrence anyone trying to track you down assuming they did decypher the rtty whould still have problems associating badger with cUSF
[13:18] <rjharrison> fergusnoble you beat me to it
[13:32] rjharrison (n=rharriso@212.183.136.193) left irc:
[13:48] fergusnoble (n=fergusno@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) left irc:
[14:12] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[14:22] <Laurenceb> hmm http://www.lulu.com/content/4956212
[14:23] <jcoxon> Laurenceb: !
[14:24] Action: Laurenceb runs
[14:24] <jcoxon> not cool
[15:06] <jcoxon> bbl
[15:06] jcoxon (i=zeusbot@lister.antycip.co.uk) left irc: "leaving"
[16:43] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:06] <Laurenceb> wd ed
[17:07] <Laurenceb> edmoore: I was reading through the datasheet for the lassen iq
[17:07] <edmoore> uhuh
[17:07] <Laurenceb> I'm not sure how well my idea would work
[17:07] <Laurenceb> its certainly good for testing the technique
[17:08] <Laurenceb> but the pseudorange outputs use the calculated position
[17:08] <Laurenceb> so its using the doppler/pseudorange filter in the recevier
[17:08] <Laurenceb> you can literally dum raw data from the correlators
[17:09] <Laurenceb> using that at 1Hz will be too noisy
[17:09] <Laurenceb> I want to know it you can get that at a faster rate...
[17:09] <edmoore> sure, i see....
[17:09] <Laurenceb> I'm still delving thorugh at the moment
[17:11] <Laurenceb> I was reading throught the nebula n-prize page
[17:11] <Laurenceb> I've changed my mind, that guy is a genius
[17:12] <Laurenceb> I believe hes using common rail deisel injectors to differentially throttle a annunar aerospike engine
[17:12] <Laurenceb> then nitrous oxide and kerosene
[17:12] <Laurenceb> in pressurised tanks - nitrous self pressureising, kerosene using helium
[17:12] <Laurenceb> just genious
[17:13] <Laurenceb> three axis control just using the engine and off the shelf car parts
[17:15] <Laurenceb> from the screenshots I think his kalman filter is using euler angles which is interesting as I found they would probably run faster on 8 bit machines
[17:15] <Laurenceb> I think hes got it sorted
[17:43] <Laurenceb> edmoore: ok, so it looks like the pseudorange output i only avlaiable after a position fix is found
[17:43] <edmoore> which is less useful
[17:43] <Laurenceb> suggesting its not a real pseudorange, but
[17:43] <Laurenceb> it cnanges as the clock is adjusted
[17:43] <Laurenceb> suggesting it is... I'm not sure
[17:44] <Laurenceb> do you have an lassen set up?
[17:45] <edmoore> not within 200 miles of where I am now
[17:45] <Laurenceb> oh well
[17:45] <Laurenceb> you at home?
[17:45] <edmoore> yep
[17:46] <Laurenceb> hmm the thing is, you need to time at the sat
[17:46] <Laurenceb> to plug into the ephemeris calculation
[17:46] <Laurenceb> so you can find the X,Y,z position of the sat
[17:47] <Laurenceb> I dont see that information anywhere
[17:47] <Laurenceb> everything is timestamped relative to the receiver clock
[17:48] <Laurenceb> but the satellite data has a time stamp, thats what you need acess to
[17:48] <Laurenceb> when the recevier is booting up, and only has one sat tracked, the receiver clock is obtained from the data stamp
[17:49] <Laurenceb> but once it has multiple sats, its a component of the state vector in the internal filter
[17:49] <Laurenceb> we dont want that
[17:49] <Laurenceb> I'm trying to work out if the effect can be removed....
[17:57] <Laurenceb> ok theres only one way to do this
[17:58] <Laurenceb> edmoore: you can only do it by having GPS time in the state vector then putting the ephemeris into the state model
[17:58] <Laurenceb> which is pretty horrible
[18:00] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude.
[18:21] Nick change: Ei5GTB_ -> EI5GTB
[18:30] Laurenceb (i=83e3dd6d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8b9f23f35ba8ba9d) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[19:05] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:07] Laurenceb (i=83e3dd6d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8dd6e037f416d60d) joined #highaltitude.
[19:19] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-198-244.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:41] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-163-198-244.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[20:37] gregHome___ (n=gleblanc@75.108.2.123) joined #highaltitude.
[20:38] Nick change: gregHome___ -> gregHome
[21:00] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[21:03] gregHome (n=gleblanc@75.108.2.123) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[21:23] Ei5GTB_ (n=Paul@78.16.153.30) joined #highaltitude.
[21:23] Action: Ei5GTB_ hugs BT
[21:23] <Ei5GTB_> what'd i miss?
[21:23] <Ei5GTB_> dammit, wrong channel
[21:29] EI5GTB (n=Paul@78.16.31.16) left irc: Nick collision from services.
[21:29] Nick change: Ei5GTB_ -> EI5GTB
[21:31] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:38] fergusnoble (n=fergusno@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[21:39] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[21:50] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Halt! Hammerzeit!=-"
[22:26] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc:
[22:36] borism_ (n=boris@195-50-199-4-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[22:36] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[22:42] borism (n=boris@195-50-200-9-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[23:05] G8KHW (n=Steve@217.47.75.27) joined #highaltitude.
[23:13] <Laurenceb> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jqr4ZFC7wc
[23:30] G8KHW (n=Steve@217.47.75.27) left irc: "Leaving"
[00:00] --- Mon Nov 24 2008