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[00:18] Action: Laurenceb punches matlab
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[00:43] <Laurenceb> edmoore: about?
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[02:38] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/30724
[02:39] <Laurenceb> pwnage
[02:43] <Laurenceb> thats raw data from my sige se4120 board
[02:44] <Laurenceb> IF is in the middle, the peaks are probably interference - gps sats would be below the noise
[02:46] <SpeedEvil> Not always.
[02:46] Action: SpeedEvil passes Laurenceb a dish.
[02:47] <SpeedEvil> Makes GPS lots easier.
[02:47] <SpeedEvil> A 1.2m dish will push the sat out of the noise
[02:49] <Laurenceb> ha
[02:49] <Laurenceb> annoyingly I dont have a linux driver
[02:50] <Laurenceb> so I have to switch back to xp to collect more data
[02:50] <Laurenceb> but the driver source is open, so it should be possible to make it run
[02:50] <Laurenceb> I'm going to try it with no antenna next
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[02:53] <Laurenceb> I've got matlab but octave is sooo much faster
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[09:00] <rjharrison> Just need to ad two temp sensors and I'm ready for launch
[09:00] <rjharrison> Should be able to do that tonight.
[09:03] <jcoxon> the temp sensors, not the launch :-P
[09:05] <jcoxon> morning rjharrison
[09:06] <rjharrison> Yep
[09:06] <rjharrison> haha
[09:07] <rjharrison> As if
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[09:08] <rjharrison> Should be looking to launch from EARS in the next few weeks weather dependent. Going to be testing morse to the limit. From 45 letter per minute right up to 1000 letters per minute
[09:09] <jcoxon> excellent
[09:09] <jcoxon> i'll definitely listen in
[09:11] <rjharrison> I'll lease with the Camb. ground crew once testing is complete. I think CUSF are ready to go too if they stay on 650 we may be able to double launch as I'm on 075
[09:11] <rjharrison> liease (Sp?)
[09:11] <rjharrison> leiase
[09:11] <rjharrison> humm
[09:11] <jcoxon> liase
[09:11] <rjharrison> Thanks
[09:17] <jcoxon> i don't think i'm going to launch untill after christmas
[09:26] <rjharrison> What can we look forward to for the next launch?
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[09:57] <jcoxon> oh just fixing all the problems from the last one
[09:57] <jcoxon> hopefully some better images
[10:06] <rjharrison> jcoxon Cool have you managed any QSO's yet
[10:09] <jcoxon> rjharrison, no sadly not
[10:09] <jcoxon> not that i've been trying
[10:09] <jcoxon> really need to be on the 2m band
[10:21] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: are you on 70cm?
[10:21] <gordonjcp> 'cos that's *dead* up here, I don't know about where you are
[10:22] <jcoxon> yeah i'm on 70cm, only cause thats all i've got
[10:22] <jcoxon> i'm in london but its dead
[10:22] <jcoxon> i can hear a distant repeater
[10:27] <gordonjcp> Jingtong JT-208, 15 quid
[10:27] <gordonjcp> you know you want to
[10:27] <jcoxon> what!
[10:27] <gordonjcp> about that
[10:28] <gordonjcp> I bought my 308 from a dude in Hong Kong, it was nearly 30 by the time shipping was on
[10:28] <gordonjcp> they're a bit crap but they work
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[10:31] Action: jcoxon goes on ebay
[10:34] <edmoore> jcoxon: what is on ebay?
[10:34] <jcoxon> cheap 2m band radios
[10:35] <edmoore> for real life hamming?
[10:35] <jcoxon> indeed
[10:36] <edmoore> cool
[10:36] <jcoxon> that said - they only the handhelds are cheap
[10:36] <edmoore> we can get free ones as students
[10:36] <edmoore> for the duration of being students
[10:36] <jcoxon> from CUWS?
[10:36] <edmoore> some other organisation
[10:37] <edmoore> but i will go with that up until the day when I can afford an ic-7000
[10:37] <jcoxon> oh right
[10:38] <jcoxon> that said i'm tempted to still try and get a contact on 70cm
[10:38] <jcoxon> more of a challenge
[10:38] <jcoxon> considering no one is on it :-p
[10:38] <jcoxon> and also i really can't afford anything right now!
[10:39] <edmoore> same
[10:40] <edmoore> I need some new jeans. can't afford £40 though
[10:40] <edmoore> tough life
[10:40] <jcoxon> indeed
[10:40] <jcoxon> also i'm going on holiday soon so really won't have any money
[10:41] Action: jcoxon gets off ebay
[10:41] <edmoore> where are you going?
[10:41] <jcoxon> north norway
[10:42] <jcoxon> northern lights hopefully
[10:42] <edmoore> oh grand
[10:43] <jcoxon> yeah should be good
[10:47] <jcoxon> hmm maybe a jpole will do it
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[11:11] <gordonjcp> I picked up an old Trio TR-7730 2m rig for 40 quid
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[11:44] Nick change: EI5GTB__ -> EI5GTB
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[18:47] <natrium42> hi
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[19:01] <natrium42> moin Xenion
[19:09] <Xenion> moin moin natrium42 :-)
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[19:35] <neontube> hi
[19:35] <fnoble> edmoore, hello
[19:35] <edmoore> hi
[19:36] <fnoble> hows things?
[19:37] <edmoore> ok. been humming away with work.
[19:37] <fnoble> cool, you dont think my lcd screen reply was too grumpy?
[19:37] <edmoore> I sort of which i could go and live in a mountain cabin alone for one month with some books as there I some things I really want to study
[19:37] <edmoore> without distractions like lab reports and supervisions
[19:37] <edmoore> not too grumpy
[19:37] <fnoble> yeah, i know how you feel
[19:38] <edmoore> the whole thing seems to have turned into 'a project' for some reason
[19:38] <edmoore> and everyone is being very cambridge about it
[19:38] <edmoore> i'd just stick to cards personally.
[19:38] <fnoble> yeah, and ive told people about 4 or 5 times thats its completely pointless to do it from scratch, but that idea keeps getting raised again
[19:39] <fnoble> i cant kill it
[19:39] <edmoore> we can always build a 'biger' jp-aero style payload that would be more rigid
[19:39] <edmoore> bigger*
[19:39] <fnoble> yeah
[19:39] <edmoore> i.e. more stuff could be stuck on cards
[19:39] <fnoble> but our main line of work isnt just sending up publicity
[19:39] <edmoore> i dunno
[19:40] <edmoore> exactly
[19:40] <fnoble> but that seems to be top of the agenda at the moment
[19:40] <edmoore> i don't think it's enough of a problem yet to warrant such effort
[19:40] <fnoble> we shouldnt really be racing to launch things in bad conditions just beacuse of that
[19:41] <edmoore> if only they'd realise we know better :)
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[19:42] <fnoble> i think they know, its just we cant be in constant contact with them
[19:42] <mc-> hi jcoxon, I've been to a place called Hell in northern norway
[19:42] <fnoble> there are always going to be moments when they are left on their own to do something and hence mess it up :)
[19:43] Nick change: Ei5GTB_ -> EI5GTB
[19:44] <mc-> hi fnoble, how's it going?
[19:44] <fnoble> mc-, hello
[19:45] <fnoble> not too bad, yourself?
[19:45] <fnoble> sounds like youve been to hell and back recently
[19:45] <fnoble> :)
[19:46] <jcoxon> mc-, ooo cool
[19:47] <jcoxon> we are going a little fruther north
[19:47] <jcoxon> up to tromso
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[20:40] <Laurenceb> hi
[20:44] <edmoore> yo
[20:45] Action: Laurenceb has got his SE4120 board running
[20:45] <edmoore> what does that mean
[20:46] <Laurenceb> just a sec
[20:47] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/30767
[20:47] <Laurenceb> edmoore: gps frontend
[20:47] <edmoore> cool
[20:47] <Laurenceb> thats the IF with (blue) and without (red) antenna
[20:48] <Laurenceb> center is 1.56Ghz
[20:48] <Laurenceb> the spikes are quite odd- only a few hundered hertz bandwidth
[20:49] <Laurenceb> possible clock lines on my pc
[20:49] <edmoore> uhuh
[20:50] <Laurenceb> so... I only need to get an FPGA running and well have a gps for martlet
[20:50] <edmoore> kick arse
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> martlet?
[20:50] <edmoore> cuspaceflight.co.uk/martlet
[20:51] <Laurenceb> I'm trying to write some aquisition code atm
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[20:51] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[20:51] Action: SpeedEvil is also trying to do software GPS.
[20:52] <Laurenceb> its tricky
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> Not really.
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> It's tricky to do on low-power small platforms :)
[20:52] <Laurenceb> you cant do it in real time
[20:52] <Laurenceb> on any realistic system
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> Of course you can.
[20:52] <Laurenceb> you need hardware acceleration of some sort
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> On a desktop it's damn near trivial.
[20:53] <Laurenceb> it isnt
[20:53] <Laurenceb> even if you write everything is c and optimise it as much as possible
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> Yes, it is.
[20:53] <Laurenceb> you probably wont get it to run in real time
[20:53] <mc-> jcoxon, been to tromso, and seen the lights
[20:53] <Laurenceb> ok have you dont it?
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> You're talkin about a megabyte a second of data. Maybe double that.
[20:54] <Laurenceb> Speed: 16 mega/sec
[20:54] <edmoore> the front ends grab much more than 16mb/s...
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> massively parallel acquisition - no - you're probably not goind to do that.
[20:54] <edmoore> 16 iirc
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: it depends.
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> hango
[20:54] <Laurenceb> this is 16megabytes/sec
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> http://geotate.com/en/products
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Takes 200ms samples of the entire GPS waveband, stores in a 200K file, desktop PC later determines position.
[20:55] <Laurenceb> sure
[20:55] <Xenion> gute nacht / good night .. bye bye :-)
[20:55] <Laurenceb> your pc will take 10S or so
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/wireless/gps/max2741.cfm
[20:55] <Laurenceb> to process that
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> that's real-time software GPS using the chip only as a frontend to USB
[20:56] <Laurenceb> yeah
[20:56] <Laurenceb> but it oesnt mean it will run in real time
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[20:57] <SpeedEvil> I'd like to show you my code, but I hope to sell it.
[20:57] <Laurenceb> http://gps.aau.dk/downloads.htm
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> I'm doing it on a STM32, and I have simulations that look good.
[20:57] <Laurenceb> ^ that code takes over an hour for a minute of raw data
[20:58] <Laurenceb> are all the phase locked loops and delay locked loops done in software?
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> To provide a generic interface, the software can create a virtual COM port so that it can link to a wealth of existing navigation and location applications. Most GPS software package interfaces conform to NMEA 0183 and will typically run on Microsoft's Windows® XP and Windows Vista® operating systems. Additionally, the software should be able to handle all available assistance data, whether supplied through industry-standard protocols or proprietary
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/4237
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> . On a 1GHz Pentium® M system, the average processor load when tracking will be about 6%; on a 2.18GHz Core Duo processor, the processor load will typically be below 5% when performing updates every second.
[21:00] <Laurenceb> hmm
[21:01] <Laurenceb> it might cheat by not using all the data
[21:01] <Laurenceb> are there techniques for doing parallel operations on pentium?
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> Of course.
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> Though if you do it right, XOR can be very powerful.
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> MMX and stuff are almost designed for this.
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> pregenerate a bitstream, and simply MA
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> MAC along it early/late as you go.
[21:05] <Laurenceb> I see
[21:05] <Laurenceb> but it would end up rather architecture dependant?
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> Of course.
[21:06] <edmoore> the price we pay for stuff what runs fast
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> C generally poorly maps to really high performance trickery.
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> XOR for example, on a 70MHz 32 bit machine can do 1 billion multiplies/second.
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly, I've probably thrown it out.
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> ~1990, 'Elektor' magazine had a software GPS.
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> Based on the transputer.
[21:08] <Laurenceb> hmm its interesting...
[21:09] <Laurenceb> the standard approach says that you need an fpga
[21:09] <Laurenceb> but maybe it is possible is you really optimise it
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> That's basically wrong.
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> Consider your most basic GPS reciever.
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[21:09] <SpeedEvil> Firstly, you have a 1MHz 'chip' stream generated from a small PRNG
[21:10] <Laurenceb> all the commercial recievers use some sort of ASIC for hardware PLL, DLL
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> Then you slip this against the incoming satellite signal till you get a peak.
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> Then you slip this back/forward using a tracking loop in software to keep synced to the GPS.
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> This will get you easily within a quarter of a microsecond without doing anything else at all.
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[21:12] <SpeedEvil> If you can swap between satellites, you've now got a GPS that you can do on a couple of PICs.
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> Admittedly, it's got 200m or so resolution, and won't actually cope with movement pretty much at all.
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> You wind up needing more power if you want to do complex stuff. For example, handling trees and poor signal situations, wanting to grab signal in between buildings, ...
[21:15] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> In many ways rockets or balloons are the easiest environments.
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> As you've always got good signal.
[21:18] <Laurenceb> guess I'll have to have a read if the STM32 datasheet
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Having said that.
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure it's actually possible to get a nice accurate GPS as small as the STM32, I hope it is, as I want to sell it if it is.
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> I know I can get a inaccurate GPS from it, but...
[21:21] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Back went yesterday for no reason.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Changing cheese in a mousetrap.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> So I'm going back to bed.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Wave.
[21:22] <Laurenceb> cya
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Good luck.
[21:22] <Laurenceb> thanx
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[22:03] <Laurenceb> this weather is so annoying
[22:03] <Laurenceb> I need to go outside to do more tests :(
[22:04] <Laurenceb> hopefully the mini rogallo will be ready in approx 2 weeks
[22:04] <jcoxon> urgh, its terrible weather
[22:05] <Laurenceb> wrecked my shoes last night running about in mud for the last test :(
[22:06] <jcoxon> eek
[22:08] <Laurenceb> oh well I got some good data
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[22:11] <Laurenceb> oooh nice http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/fileexchange/14670
[22:12] <fuzzylugnuts> I don't know what that is, but sounds really really useful
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[00:00] --- Mon Nov 10 2008