highaltitude.log.20081103

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[08:28] <rjharrison> Morning all
[08:35] <rjharrison> Moring zeusbot
[08:35] <rjharrison> :)
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[09:06] <rjharrison> hi ed
[09:07] <edmoore> yo
[09:21] <Laurenceb> hi
[09:21] <Laurenceb> fnoble_: yeah I tried
[09:21] <Laurenceb> and failed to get it working :P
[09:39] <rjharrison> Beeing looking at igniters. I have an idea for payload cutdown has anyone else had a play with those rocket igniters. Have we discounted them?
[09:39] <rjharrison> been
[09:39] <edmoore> which igniters?
[09:39] <rjharrison> Rocket motor ones
[09:40] <rjharrison> Im thinking of wrapping with a fuse in a cardboard tube
[09:40] <rjharrison> Burn through the balloon string
[09:41] <rjharrison> Down we come
[09:41] <edmoore> but which ones?
[09:41] <edmoore> some rocket igniters are great and we've used them lots, some are useless and unreliable
[09:42] <rjharrison> Ok hit me with a recommendation
[09:42] <edmoore> but our cutdowns normally are rocket igniters sealed in tubes with black powder
[09:42] <edmoore> daveyfires are very reliable
[09:42] <edmoore> but a bit pricey
[09:43] <edmoore> but rocketeers normally use them if it counts
[09:43] <rjharrison> Where do you get the black powder?
[09:43] <edmoore> quick match
[09:43] <edmoore> scrunched up so all the powder falls out
[09:44] <rjharrison> Sounds good
[09:44] <rjharrison> How much sre the davyfires
[09:44] <rjharrison> are
[09:44] <rjharrison> ish
[09:44] <rjharrison> 4 quit
[09:44] <rjharrison> 10 quid
[09:45] <edmoore> £2/ea i think
[09:45] <rjharrison> And the power req. 4 aaa?
[09:45] <rjharrison> or 7v lipo
[09:45] <edmoore> that's always worked for us but i couldn't actually give you a number off the top of my head
[09:45] <edmoore> either will probs be fine
[09:46] <rjharrison> Right I'm going pyro
[09:46] <rjharrison> Get ready for the bang! :)
[09:46] <edmoore> :)
[09:47] <edmoore> more radio 4 accouncements
[09:47] <edmoore> anouncements*
[09:47] <rjharrison> haha
[09:47] <rjharrison> not on my account!
[09:48] <rjharrison> Right day job beckons!
[09:49] <edmoore> yep same
[09:49] <edmoore> cya!
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[10:53] <Laurenceb> hmm jcoxon is into parafoils again
[10:54] <Laurenceb> according to the wiki :P
[10:57] <Laurenceb> oh hang on thin that had always been there
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[16:48] <rjharrison> jcoxon Your data log on the pegasus website looks like some data is missing? It stops at 450M
[16:49] <rjharrison> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:pegasusvilog
[16:53] <Laurenceb> go to view source
[16:55] <Cooleo-M> Laurenceb: Do you know the height your balloon can go before it needs CAA clearence?
[16:56] <Laurenceb> not sure
[16:56] <Cooleo-M> Ok
[16:56] <Laurenceb> but if you are doing an untethered launch its best tohard it
[16:56] <Laurenceb> *have
[16:58] <rjharrison> Cooleo-M 50M uk
[16:58] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: 50meters?
[16:58] <rjharrison> yep it goes under the kite regulations
[16:59] <Cooleo-M> I wanted to do a tether one up to 250m
[16:59] <Cooleo-M> Hmm
[16:59] <rjharrison> I have 400m of string too :)
[16:59] <Cooleo-M> How do I apply for permission then?
[16:59] <rjharrison> Well
[16:59] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: I cant wait to see the video from 250m up :D
[17:01] <rjharrison> I manged 100 meteres about a month ago http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157607427579492/
[17:02] <rjharrison> Make sure there are no pylons around you as it has non of the lift or control of a kite
[17:02] <rjharrison> Infact no power cables
[17:03] <rjharrison> EVERYONE YOu all proabably know about this LINUX GSM/GPRSGPS board but just in case http://www.roundsolutions.com/aarlogic/index.htm
[17:04] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: Im doing it in the middle of a field :D
[17:04] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: Did you apply for permission?
[17:09] <rjharrison> Personally no. But I was up and down quite quick so to speak.
[17:10] <Cooleo-M> How long is quite quick?
[17:10] <rjharrison> 30 mins
[17:10] <rjharrison> :)
[17:10] <Cooleo-M> Ah
[17:10] <Cooleo-M> Ill only use that long
[17:10] <Cooleo-M> if that.
[17:10] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: Where is your house
[17:10] <Cooleo-M> ?
[17:10] <rjharrison> So long as you are away from an air field and use some sense. I would go howling it about how high you got. Just post the pics and enjoy
[17:11] <Cooleo-M> :D
[17:11] <Cooleo-M> 300 meters? :D
[17:11] <rjharrison> Near dewsbury
[17:11] <Cooleo-M> Better do really strong knots though
[17:11] <rjharrison> I started at 173 aboud sea level
[17:11] <rjharrison> above
[17:11] <Cooleo-M> Cool.
[17:11] <Cooleo-M> Did you take the photos remotely?
[17:11] <Cooleo-M> or just a camera?
[17:12] <jcoxon> rjharrison, when i load that webpage i get all teh data
[17:12] <rjharrison> If you clim a mountain forst you could easily gt over a km up
[17:12] <rjharrison> jcoxon humm not me
[17:12] <jcoxon> strange
[17:12] <rjharrison> No worries, perhaps it's just me
[17:12] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: 1km?! I can probably do that in String..
[17:12] <rjharrison> dont
[17:13] <rjharrison> :)
[17:13] <Cooleo-M> :P
[17:13] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: in firefox?
[17:13] <rjharrison> jcoxon these are the last 3 lines i get ,10:59:37,52.251588,-0.092985,450.8M,11.485,171.16
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:38,52.251550,-0.092971,456.8M,5.152,168.47
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:40,52.251551,-0.093015,468.7M,7.618,283.50
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:42,52.251519,-0.093189,481.5M,15.264,229.44
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:44,52.251390,-0.093296,493.8M,13.310,192.70
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:45,52.251357,-0.093314,500.4M,2.924,230.06
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:46,52.251367,-0.093328,506.0M,5.978,339.65
[17:13] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: its in the source
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:48,52.251390,-0.093347,518.8M,3.452,200.14
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:49,52.251361,-0.093354,526.3M,8.937,186.62
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:50,52.251311,-0.093378,533.5M,12.689,204.15
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:51,52.251250,-0.093449,538.4M,18.282,220.00
[17:13] <Laurenceb> no
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:52,52.251177,-0.093552,542.5M,21.230,221.00
[17:13] <Cooleo-M> ill do 300 meters, Thats not that high. But I just hope the string holds
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:53,52.251105,-0.093629,547.3M,16.024,204.95
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:54,52.251044,-0.093642,552.6M,11.699,170.82
[17:13] <rjharrison> ,10:59:55,52.250999
[17:13] <jcoxon> wow, no flooding!
[17:13] <rjharrison> Ahh you said that
[17:13] <Laurenceb> floodz
[17:13] <rjharrison> I only highlighted 3 lines
[17:13] <rjharrison> Something weird is going on
[17:14] <jcoxon> rjharrison, try refreshing that page
[17:14] <rjharrison> I have
[17:14] <Cooleo-M> Im probably gonna do a video though, not photos.
[17:14] <rjharrison> I did both
[17:14] <Laurenceb> using firefox?
[17:14] <rjharrison> Just video was a bit naff on that cam
[17:14] <rjharrison> Yep
[17:14] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: How did you take the pictures?
[17:14] <jcoxon> just refreshed it again, working fine for me
[17:14] <Laurenceb> try view source
[17:15] <rjharrison> Laurenceb: You're right all there
[17:15] <rjharrison> I wonder why it stops displaying
[17:15] <Laurenceb> maybe a bug in firefox
[17:16] <rjharrison> Cooleo-M with a haxcked ixus http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:hacking_a_canon_digital_ixus_400_camera
[17:16] <Laurenceb> it cant hold all the text in its page buffer?
[17:16] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: Cost much?
[17:16] <rjharrison> 20 squid
[17:17] <Cooleo-M> Ah
[17:17] <Cooleo-M> You have to do remote interfacing
[17:17] <rjharrison> jcoxon you on firefox?
[17:17] <Cooleo-M> Thats gonna cost me too much
[17:18] <rjharrison> I used an atmega. Personaly I would just get a cannon which is supported by CHDK and use a script to do you bidding
[17:18] <rjharrison> your
[17:18] <rjharrison> canon
[17:18] <jcoxon> rjharrison, yup
[17:18] <Laurenceb> odd
[17:18] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: Ill just stick with Video for this launch. :)
[17:18] <rjharrison> Cooleo-M If you want further info google chdk
[17:19] <Laurenceb> its got to be a bug in firefox
[17:19] <rjharrison> What cam?
[17:19] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: This one, Has no model number on o.o
[17:19] <Cooleo-M> Ill try finding it
[17:19] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: CHDK can just take a photo every X seconds?
[17:20] <Cooleo-M> with a script.
[17:20] <rjharrison> Yep and video if you get the right chdk version
[17:20] <rjharrison> Yep
[17:20] <Cooleo-M> Heh nice.
[17:21] <rjharrison> You can get a cam new form amazon for 80 quid and then you're more or less done. Obv. need balloon etc to lift it
[17:21] <rjharrison> from*
[17:21] <Cooleo-M> Thats the cam I was gonna use: http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Content/Product/products9/94898501_m.jpg
[17:22] <Cooleo-M> Building a case for it out of Balsa wood and foam
[17:22] <Cooleo-M> Launch is when my EMA comes through
[17:23] <jcoxon> Cooleo-M, haha, surely thats not what an EMA is meant to be spent on :-p
[17:23] <jcoxon> (i still say go for it though!)
[17:23] <Cooleo-M> jcoxon: CLEARLY it is :P
[17:23] <Cooleo-M> :D
[17:23] <Cooleo-M> I only get £10 EMA though, BUT my parents give me £10/Week
[17:23] <Cooleo-M> So £20 week is alright :D
[17:23] <rjharrison> Cooleo-M looks fine. Let me know when you get the pics. Where are you based?
[17:24] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: Lowestoft, Suffolk.
[17:24] <rjharrison> age?
[17:24] <Cooleo-M> jcoxon: They havent sent through last terms, so Im waiting for a £70 lumpsum to come through
[17:24] <rjharrison> Whats an ema
[17:24] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: 16
[17:24] <rjharrison> Gool
[17:24] <rjharrison> Cool
[17:24] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: Its where the goverment pay you each week for going to school
[17:24] <rjharrison> Awsume
[17:24] <rjharrison> Not in my day
[17:24] <Cooleo-M> :P
[17:25] <rjharrison> I'm glad my tax is helping to keep you off the street and launch balloons :)
[17:25] <Cooleo-M> Haha. I'm not the type of person to 'hang about on the streets'
[17:25] <rjharrison> Be good to see the pics whan you do it.
[17:25] <Cooleo-M> :D
[17:26] <Cooleo-M> It think my camera only records at 640x480 though.
[17:26] <rjharrison> Just look out for helicopters and power cables and you'll be fine
[17:26] <Cooleo-M> :D
[17:26] <Cooleo-M> Ill have to find somewhere to do it. Im surrounded by fields though.
[17:26] <rjharrison> That will be fine. Trust me it's a reall buzz when you get the cam down and view the images
[17:26] <Cooleo-M> :)
[17:26] <Cooleo-M> Cant wait
[17:27] <Cooleo-M> Still gotta work out the weights, and how many balloons ill need.
[17:27] <Cooleo-M> Using a cluster, incase one fails.
[17:28] <rjharrison> Depends. You can blow up a ton of party ones. Between you and me I would get a big plastic bag. And fill that and tye it off
[17:29] <Cooleo-M> I was gonna use party balloons.
[17:29] <rjharrison> 10 big bin liners is alot cheaper than 200 party baloons
[17:29] <rjharrison> and lighter
[17:29] <Cooleo-M> 200?! To lift like 200 Grams>
[17:29] <rjharrison> well
[17:29] <rjharrison> A bit less but you'll be fed up with tying them
[17:29] <Cooleo-M> I wish they would all fail, Then I could see if my parachute works.
[17:29] <rjharrison> How many bin bags for 200g. I would guess 4/5
[17:30] <Cooleo-M> They would be annoying to tie though
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison: lots more cheap ones
[17:32] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: Roughly, A helium balloon can lift 5 grams
[17:32] <rjharrison> What does one party balloon lift 10g?
[17:32] <Cooleo-M> 5 Grams.
[17:32] <rjharrison> so 40 balloon to equilibrium
[17:33] <rjharrison> 60 to give a bit of lift. + Weight of string Make it 80.
[17:33] <Cooleo-M> 80 balloons o.o
[17:34] <Cooleo-M> Thats put the price of my helium up
[17:34] <rjharrison> 1 bin bag must=10 balloons
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> I only have heavy ones I guess.
[17:34] <Cooleo-M> there would be so hard to fill up though
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> These weigh 50g per.
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> 120l
[17:35] <rjharrison> Get the cheep ones they always split when full of garbage :)
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> these are quite tough ones.
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> I think the cheaper ones are going to be around 25g
[17:36] <rjharrison> Get a cable tie and collect up the open end fill and close tie
[17:36] <Cooleo-M> Ah
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> Smear of silicone round the edge before tie.
[17:36] <Cooleo-M> I was expecting to use 20 or so balloons :P
[17:36] <rjharrison> Then tie off with string and remove cable tie and they weigh a lot more
[17:36] <rjharrison> and = as
[17:37] <Cooleo-M> Hmm
[17:37] <rjharrison> Just an idea
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[17:37] <Cooleo-M> Yeah.
[17:38] <rjharrison> Then you could use some kind of long burning fuse to burn through the string and test the chute too
[17:38] <Cooleo-M> Yeah, Could do
[17:38] <rjharrison> Though you may want to do a few ups and downs first
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> icecube
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> two bits of thread in an ice-cube
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> when the ice melts it falls off.
[17:39] <rjharrison> Yep that would work
[17:39] <Cooleo-M> Ah
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> Won't of course work at altitude :)
[17:39] <Cooleo-M> SpeedEvil: So easy, Great idea!
[17:39] <Cooleo-M> SpeedEvil: Should work at about 200 Meters
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> If it's not too chilly :)
[17:39] <Cooleo-M> :D
[17:39] <rjharrison> and 1k depending on time of year
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> Actually.
[17:40] <rjharrison> be a bit more interesting at 35k
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> In the sun, at 30Km, it might sublime at a reasonable rate.
[17:40] <Cooleo-M> :P
[17:40] <Laurenceb> hi guys
[17:40] Action: rjharrison thinks days
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> make it iced coffee for better absorbtion.
[17:40] <natrium42> robotic scissors!
[17:40] <Laurenceb> cutdowns?
[17:40] <natrium42> (don't run with them)
[17:40] <rjharrison> Cigar cutter
[17:40] <Laurenceb> use a resistor
[17:41] <Cooleo-M> http://www.bakerross.co.uk/product-25cm-Large-Round-Balloons-B9.htm
[17:41] <Laurenceb> you could just do uit with a 555
[17:41] <rjharrison> Laurenceb I'm going pyro
[17:41] <Cooleo-M> 25cm balloons, 100 for £6.50
[17:41] <Laurenceb> expensive to test
[17:41] <Cooleo-M> Haha Yep
[17:42] <Cooleo-M> I might get one helium balloon filled from a local store if I can find one which does it. Bring it home and try the ice idea.
[17:42] <Cooleo-M> Normally Flower Shops do it.
[17:42] <Cooleo-M> Gonna be expensive though, £60 worth of helium!
[17:42] <Cooleo-M> for 80 balloons
[17:43] <Cooleo-M> and alot of icecubes
[17:43] <Cooleo-M> Which would probably melt by the time we launched
[17:43] <rjharrison> Sounds about right. Unless you get a tank of it. £125 for 9m3
[17:44] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: This would be 3 tanks...Bought from ASDA.
[17:44] <rjharrison> Cooleo-M http://www.bocballoongas.co.uk/balloonsuk/products/206050-Balloon%20Gas%20Price%20List%202007%20.pdf
[17:46] <Cooleo-M> 292bytes a second download
[17:47] <Cooleo-M> 6 minutes remaining
[17:48] <rjharrison> IT's the BOC price list. You may be able to get cheeper locally.
[17:50] <Cooleo-M> Cool, Ill grab a yellow pages
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> How much is H2?
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> And is it as readily available as He?
[17:50] <Cooleo-M> Maybe I should use a mobile phone for the camera, Would be cheaper.
[17:50] <rjharrison> Probably alot less but don't use it
[17:51] <Cooleo-M> *lightr
[17:51] <rjharrison> Less weight is the name of the game here
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> The camera is half the problem.
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> The other half is gettting it to take lots of pics in sequence
[17:51] <Cooleo-M> Well this camera ways 200 grams
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> A cheap digital will run you ~50 quid
[17:51] <Cooleo-M> I may get a decent quality mobile to take videos
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> you don't get decent quality video on a phone cheaper than a camera
[17:52] <rjharrison> If you're clever you could get it to text the pics back to you on the ground
[17:52] <Cooleo-M> SpeedEvil: I have this phone next to me
[17:52] <Cooleo-M> rjharrison: Maybe
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[17:53] <jcoxon> evening G8KHW
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[17:55] <SpeedEvil> Cooleo-M: if it smashe s- how much would it cost to replace it.
[17:56] <Cooleo-M> SpeedEvil: THe mobile?
[17:57] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[17:57] <Hiena> ' evening!
[17:57] <Cooleo-M> SpeedEvil: About £20
[17:57] Nick change: Ei5GTB_ -> EI5GTB
[17:57] <Cooleo-M> but it has a 3 Megapixel camera on I thin
[17:57] <SpeedEvil> For a phone that can take good video?
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> 20 quid will barely get you any camera at all without a contract.
[17:58] <Cooleo-M> SpeedEvil: Yeah, Was my dads old one
[18:01] <rjharrison> bbl off to drive home
[18:01] <Cooleo-M> k
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[18:03] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/146399 forex might be an alternative
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[18:07] <Cooleo-M> Hmm
[18:07] <Cooleo-M> I've got this camera at home for free though
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> Or ebay of course
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> fair enough.
[18:08] <Cooleo-M> :)
[18:09] <Cooleo-M> Just going through the yellow pages looking at places which sell helium
[18:14] <Cooleo-M> Ill give them a call up tommorow
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[18:52] <Cooleo-M> Hmm
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[19:15] <Laurenceb> hello
[19:16] <Cooleo-M> Hai
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[19:44] <jcoxon> edmoore, takes two + ice cream
[19:44] <edmoore> ?
[19:44] <jcoxon> think ice cream and tango
[19:44] <jcoxon> ->
[19:45] <Cooleo-M> You've mixed Ice cream and tango..Ew.
[19:45] <edmoore> ?
[19:46] <edmoore> sorry
[19:46] <Cooleo-M> lolwuit
[19:46] <Cooleo-M> *Lolwut
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[20:05] <Cooleo-M> Ooo, Kettle Chips
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[20:19] <Laurenceb> wow loads of people
[20:19] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:rprintf
[20:19] <Cooleo-M> AFK people :)
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> equality comparisons with doubles may be a bad idea.
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> 1+1!=2 always
[20:25] <Laurenceb> that was in the origional code
[20:26] <edmoore> doesn't make it safe
[20:26] <Laurenceb> :D
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> Also - don't bother saving the sign
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> just print it.
[20:27] <Laurenceb> just noiced that
[20:27] <Laurenceb> pascal stang is an idiot
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> And you can do it with one loop, not two.
[20:27] <Laurenceb> arg
[20:28] Action: Laurenceb hits pascal stang with some ram
[20:28] <Laurenceb> hang on... how do you do it in 1 loop?
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> Or does that imply printing the number backwards, or assembling a string.
[20:30] <Laurenceb> oh could you use the exponent to find where the decimal place is?
[20:30] Action: SpeedEvil is still broken from fixing roof.
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> divide by 10 billion - if >0, print number
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> divide by 1 billion, if >0 print number
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> and subtract as you go of course
[20:31] <Cooleo-M> 10 BEEP
[20:31] <Cooleo-M> 20 GOTO 10
[20:31] <Cooleo-M> Wee.
[20:31] <Laurenceb> thats how the codeworks atm
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> It's easier if you print the number backwards :)
[20:32] <Cooleo-M> If only life was that easy
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> n=number%10;number=-n;print n
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> n=number%10;number=-n;number/=10;print n
[20:33] <Laurenceb> hmm cant you use some masking and bit shifting to get theexponent
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> Not on doubles
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> or floats
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> that works well on ints
[20:35] <Laurenceb> ah as the mantissa effects it as well
[20:36] <Cooleo-M> 10 Print 'Hell
[20:36] <Cooleo-M> D:
[20:36] <Cooleo-M> 10 print 'hello'
[20:36] <Cooleo-M> 20 input a$
[20:36] <Cooleo-M> :D
[20:36] <Cooleo-M> I love basic.
[20:37] <fnoble_> edmoore, are you there?
[20:37] <edmoore> i just texted you
[20:37] <edmoore> in the library
[20:37] <edmoore> on the net trying to recall how the f*ck one calculates eigenvalues without matlab
[20:38] <fnoble_> ok, need to know if we are on for wednesday, you never replied
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> Check the eigenmarket.
[20:38] <Cooleo-M> edmoore: CTRL + ALT + DELETE will calculate it to a power of 10
[20:38] <edmoore> probably not
[20:38] <edmoore> almost certainly not
[20:38] <fnoble_> not on for wed or not the way to calc eigenvalues?
[20:38] <edmoore> SpeedEvil, Cooleo-M . away with you both
[20:38] <edmoore> both
[20:38] <Cooleo-M> D:
[20:38] <Laurenceb> time for the grown ups
[20:39] <Cooleo-M> Fine
[20:39] Action: Cooleo-M stfu's
[20:39] <edmoore> also i would the n have to calculate its tenth root which is several sheets of paper's worth of binomial expansion
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: stuff tends to get a lot easier in fixed points.
[20:39] <edmoore> by which i mean: 3 lines worth of binomial expansion
[20:39] <Laurenceb> I really need floating for this
[20:40] <edmoore> [poo joke here]
[20:40] <fnoble_> edmoore, multiply the mtx by the vector (x,y,z) and let the answer equal lambda(x,y,z)
[20:40] <Cooleo-M> Ironicly, Im actually on the toilet at the moment
[20:40] <fnoble_> solve for lambda
[20:40] <edmoore> i remembered about 35 seconds ago ty
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[20:41] <edmoore> well, i knew that bit, just the multiple same values whatitamy
[20:41] <edmoore> oh i shouldn't have to faff with this, it's dynamics
[20:41] <fnoble_> so why is it not on then?
[20:41] <fnoble_> and when is it likely to be rescheduled for?
[20:42] <edmoore> not good for them, not sure
[20:42] <fnoble_> ok
[20:42] <edmoore> thursday/friday/saturday/sunday
[20:42] <edmoore> they're being smelly
[20:43] <edmoore> thurs and fri are dire for me
[20:43] <fnoble_> weekends are by far the best for me
[20:43] <edmoore> actually thursday isn't so bad
[20:43] <fnoble_> thursday is impossible for me
[20:43] <edmoore> bugger that then
[20:44] <fnoble_> btw, the badger logging problem is a bugger to debug
[20:44] <Cooleo-M> How come you guys havent created BSA Yet? (British Space Agency)
[20:45] <Laurenceb> its called ESA
[20:45] <Hiena> Gueaas due, this name already taken. ;)
[20:45] <Cooleo-M> Thats European though
[20:45] <fnoble_> Cooleo-M, and we are in europe
[20:45] <Cooleo-M> We need a british one though :D
[20:45] <Laurenceb> doesnt stop them paying my wages XD
[20:45] <Cooleo-M> Laurenceb: You work for ESA?
[20:46] <Laurenceb> I'm sponsored by them
[20:46] <Cooleo-M> What do you do?
[20:46] <Laurenceb> partly..
[20:46] <edmoore> Laurenceb is an experiment
[20:46] <Laurenceb> studying for a PHD
[20:46] <edmoore> he's being bolted to a sattelite
[20:46] <Laurenceb> lol
[20:46] <Cooleo-M> Laurenceb: In what?
[20:47] <edmoore> fnoble_: I imagine it is, eye
[20:47] <Laurenceb> god knows
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> Interpretive dance?
[20:47] <edmoore> aye*
[20:47] <Cooleo-M> xD
[20:47] <Laurenceb> it gets more off topic by the day...
[20:47] <fnoble_> edmoore, any ideas what to try?
[20:47] <edmoore> a new FAT lib?
[20:47] <edmoore> steal sparkfun's?
[20:47] <edmoore> if in doubt, steal...
[20:48] <edmoore> the saying goes something like that anyway
[20:48] <Laurenceb> they have a FAT lib?
[20:48] <fnoble_> na, ELM is good, at least a lot of people have used it succesfully
[20:48] <Laurenceb> hehe
[20:48] <Laurenceb> me not included
[20:48] <fnoble_> Laurenceb, me neither
[20:48] <Laurenceb> I was trying to run it on 1KB
[20:48] <Laurenceb> he said it was possible, but tricky
[20:48] <Laurenceb> so probaably not the best way to start
[20:48] <fnoble_> basically after some indeterminate period of time it decides to currupt the FAT
[20:49] <edmoore> i don't really know what to suggest without clearing an afternoon to try and figure out the problem completely deteministicaly
[20:49] <fnoble_> and periodically it spaffs some random strings into the file
[20:49] <Laurenceb> I got the one from MCS electronics to work
[20:49] <Laurenceb> but thats closed
[20:49] <fnoble_> Laurenceb, link?
[20:49] <fnoble_> oh
[20:49] <Laurenceb> I bought it
[20:50] <Laurenceb> and it was running on a mega128
[20:50] <edmoore> probably more of a shuffle
[20:51] <fnoble_> edmoore, ?
[20:51] <edmoore> rather than running
[20:51] <Laurenceb> brb
[20:52] <fnoble_> edmoore, have a link for the SF lib? cant find it
[20:53] <edmoore> swing and a miss
[20:53] <edmoore> strike
[20:53] <Laurenceb> it doesnt like me
[20:53] <edmoore> you're wierd, that's why
[20:53] <Laurenceb> oi
[20:53] <Laurenceb> http://members.aon.at/voegel/
[20:54] <edmoore> i just say it like I find it
[20:54] <edmoore> don't shoot the messenger
[20:54] <Laurenceb> well technically if I was normal I'd be watching X factor or some trash
[20:54] <Laurenceb> rather than on IRC
[20:55] <edmoore> exactly
[20:55] <fnoble_> edmoore, dont really want to pull appart that firmware
[20:55] <edmoore> the fat is in fat.c
[20:55] <fnoble_> i think ill play with ELM some more
[20:55] <edmoore> it's super-simple
[20:56] <fnoble_> so are all theres things Ed, so is ELM
[20:56] <edmoore> i actually made that up, but I do recall that it was very simple
[20:56] <fnoble_> only it never quite works out like that does it :)
[20:56] <edmoore> just cos you generate magnetic fields
[20:56] <fnoble_> edmoore, i suspect it could even be another endianess issue
[20:57] <edmoore> is that a synchrotron in your pocket or do you just want to shower me with x-rays
[20:57] <Cooleo-M> Ahh
[20:57] <Cooleo-M> We're going down
[20:57] <edmoore> to where?
[20:58] <fnoble_> edmoore, you dont want to know
[20:58] <edmoore> endianess sounds like an item for discussion at our AGM where we decide we no longer need the input of our current preseident
[20:58] <Cooleo-M> edmoore: Servers going down
[20:58] <fnoble_> edmoore, as rob, we dont like you because of your endianess issues?
[20:59] <fnoble_> edmoore, i dont get it?
[20:59] <edmoore> end ian ness
[20:59] <fnoble_> ha ha ha
[20:59] <edmoore> maybe the ness bit could be explained if we wanted a biblical highland creature to do the removing
[21:00] <fnoble_> is iain president atm?
[21:00] <edmoore> apparently so
[21:00] <fnoble_> ok
[21:00] <fnoble_> man, we need to get some fresh blood, everyone will be gone soon
[21:00] <edmoore> well we can have that pub meet
[21:01] <fnoble_> yeah, we should get on with it
[21:01] <edmoore> trouble is this week is crap for me
[21:01] <fnoble_> every week is crap for everyone
[21:01] <fnoble_> were in lamebridge
[21:01] <edmoore> we should not bother recruing them
[21:02] <fnoble_> why not, i thought you said they were good?
[21:02] Action: Laurenceb starts writing his own printf routine form scratch
[21:02] <edmoore> because we are busy
[21:02] <fnoble_> Laurenceb, i wouldnt advise it
[21:02] <Laurenceb> as pascal is a retard
[21:02] <Laurenceb> just for floating point
[21:03] <fnoble_> Laurenceb, then dont use pascal
[21:03] <edmoore> maybe you should pressure Pascal into rewriting it
[21:03] <Laurenceb> it will "plug in" to his rprintf function
[21:03] <edmoore> I'm here all week...
[21:03] <fnoble_> Laurenceb, haskell is much better and also rhymes with pascal if that makes you feel more comfortable
[21:03] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:03] <edmoore> fnoble_: pascal is the name of the guy who wrote the avr lib
[21:03] <Laurenceb> theres a printf function is there?
[21:04] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:04] <Laurenceb> sorry should have explained
[21:04] <edmoore> we're refering to him rather than the language
[21:04] <Laurenceb> he also wrote an ARM lib
[21:04] <edmoore> it often happens
[21:04] <edmoore> for example, my name is actually python
[21:04] <fnoble_> oh i see, there are lots of open printfs though
[21:04] <edmoore> and i have a friend called brain fuck
[21:05] <Laurenceb> there will be one more soon
[21:05] <edmoore> and who could forget a night out with Scheme Smith?
[21:05] <fnoble_> Laurenceb, i hear good things about newlib
[21:06] <fnoble_> and some small talk with my good friend Smalltalk
[21:07] <fnoble_> man, smalltalk is a wierd language
[21:07] <edmoore> ColdFusion Davidson was a decent chap
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[21:08] <edmoore> enough
[21:08] <edmoore> i really have to work
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[21:12] <Laurenceb> ha http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:rprintf
[21:12] <Laurenceb> of course I havent tested it yet
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[21:15] <Laurenceb> oh its missing nan support
[21:17] <Laurenceb> not that I want to see it printing that :P
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[21:46] <rjharrison> My we have been chatty tonight.
[21:47] <rjharrison> I'm going to go quiet for a bit to chat with the wife as she's away in London for the next few days so I'll be on here tomorrow and wednesday.
[21:48] <rjharrison> Woking on pyro cutdown and putting a couple of temp sensors on the beacon + interfacing with the logomatic v2
[21:48] <rjharrison> working* :)
[21:50] <fnoble_> bbl, going to the library
[21:55] <Cooleo-M> hmm
[21:55] <Cooleo-M> Got it down to 100 grams
[21:56] <Cooleo-M> So 20 balloons to reach equliberium
[21:56] <Cooleo-M> so 22 to get it off the ground
[21:58] <natrium42> are you considering the weight of the rope?
[21:59] <Cooleo-M> Oh nuts
[21:59] <Cooleo-M> Thanks :P
[21:59] <Cooleo-M> So im gonna say about 33.
[21:59] <Cooleo-M> Oh thats gonna pull it ever so tight on the helium.
[22:00] <Cooleo-M> Being Im getting one to fill 30 balloons
[22:00] <Cooleo-M> Hmm
[22:00] <Cooleo-M> 20 days until launch
[22:02] <Cooleo-M> Actually wait
[22:02] <Cooleo-M> thats 50 grams
[22:02] <Cooleo-M> Can string weigh that much.
[22:03] <Cooleo-M> Ill have to weigh it when it comes
[22:10] <Cooleo-M> Hmm
[22:20] <natrium42> hehe
[22:20] <natrium42> if you used a 2 lead wire
[22:21] <natrium42> you could sent composite video :P
[22:21] <natrium42> *send
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[22:44] <Cooleo-M> natrium42: Im only videoing, Im not taking photos
[23:07] <jcoxon> hmmm, would it be possible to receive the trans-atlantic transmissions with a generic scanner?
[23:08] <jcoxon> they are usually on the 30m band
[23:08] <Cooleo-M> jcoxon: HAM Radio.
[23:08] <Cooleo-M> They do it
[23:08] <jcoxon> Cooleo-M, hehe i know - I have a callsign :-)
[23:09] <Cooleo-M> Are you creating a MIR balloon?
[23:09] <Cooleo-M> jcoxon: Really? Cool :D
[23:09] <jcoxon> the question was more would they be good enough to pick it up
[23:09] <Cooleo-M> Im guessing so.
[23:09] <Cooleo-M> Being you can get world wide
[23:09] <jcoxon> Cooleo-M, nah but some american groups release trans-atlantic zero pressures in the winter
[23:09] <jcoxon> last year they got one to just off the Irish coast
[23:10] <Cooleo-M> Ah
[23:10] <Cooleo-M> I thought you could get across the world with Ham radio
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> With enough power.
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> And a big enough antenna.
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> And enough ham.
[23:10] <Cooleo-M> Someone make a MIR ballooon :D:D
[23:10] <jcoxon> i'm more thinking about how sensitive the scanners are at receiving
[23:11] <Cooleo-M> jcoxon: Why not try going up north launching a balloon and seeing if someone down in your place can recieve it?:P
[23:11] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:11] <jcoxon> we'd tried that
[23:11] <Cooleo-M> really? Cool.
[23:12] <jcoxon> you can pick things up pretty well about 100km
[23:12] <Cooleo-M> Nice
[23:12] <jcoxon> with only 10mW of transmitting power
[23:12] <Cooleo-M> Its
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> Err
[23:12] <Cooleo-M> 4000 miles across the atlantic?
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> Diddn't gordonjcp pick up some at altitude?
[23:12] <jcoxon> they use a lot more power
[23:12] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, not yet
[23:12] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, oh it can go further
[23:12] <Cooleo-M> jcoxon: And a big arial.
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> For 4000 miles, you need a mode of RF that bounces off the ionosphere.
[23:13] <jcoxon> i think the furthest we got was about 350km out to sea
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> Or a satellite
[23:13] <gordonjcp> SpeedEvil: I was going to try to pick up the balloon but haven't, yet
[23:13] <Cooleo-M> jcoxon: What about satellite?
[23:13] <jcoxon> hard to time with their passes
[23:13] <Cooleo-M> Ah :/
[23:14] <Cooleo-M> What about if you launched a bunch of them, a day after each other?
[23:14] <Cooleo-M> so they bounce off each other
[23:14] <Cooleo-M> do like 10.
[23:14] <jcoxon> hehe, a chain of balloons
[23:14] <Cooleo-M> Yeah..Would work
[23:14] <jcoxon> 1 is hard enough :-p
[23:14] <Cooleo-M> :D
[23:14] <jcoxon> Cooleo-M, oh the trans-atlantic balloons can be picked up a long way away
[23:15] <Cooleo-M> Can they?
[23:15] <Cooleo-M> COol
[23:15] <jcoxon> they are on a low freq band which helps with propegation
[23:15] <Cooleo-M> You need a live webcam on it, That would own so much.
[23:15] <jcoxon> haha
[23:15] <Cooleo-M> That would get slashdotted.
[23:15] <jcoxon> single images are hard enough to do
[23:15] <Cooleo-M> :P
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> can youtube do it?
[23:15] <jcoxon> right, i'm off
[23:16] <jcoxon> night all
[23:16] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host81-158-144-145.range81-158.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:16] <Cooleo-M> Alright dude. Later.
[23:27] <Laurenceb> why are tesco so adhesively challenged
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgGLSJrj7AM
[23:28] <Laurenceb> they dont seem to have a clue how to glue packaging
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.com/Fisher-Price-Kid-Tough-Digital-Frustration-Free-Packaging/dp/B001BLZ3YA Now that is a good idea
[23:29] <Laurenceb> speedevil: wtf
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200285410&pop-up=1 that rather
[23:30] <Laurenceb> my audio is broken
[23:30] <Laurenceb> so I cant appreciate it
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[23:31] <Laurenceb> seems to involve mylar
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> It just popped into my head.
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> Did you try that thought about oil + polythene bag sealer?
[23:34] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> No good?
[23:34] <Laurenceb> it does sort of work
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> But not well enough?
[23:34] <Laurenceb> its still to hard to control to get a consistent seal
[23:35] <Laurenceb> but you can get very good joints
[23:35] <Laurenceb> it tends to cut the weld in half
[23:35] <Laurenceb> which makes it unsuitable for my rogallo wing
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> But plausible that it might work with something to drag it through at just the right speed?
[23:35] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:35] <Laurenceb> but theres much better ways to do it
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> prolly
[23:36] <Laurenceb> edmoore and fnoble_ seem to have it sorted
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about a way to do something rather different.
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> Basically large flat area.
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> large curved 'toy train' track.
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> Reel of plastic.
[23:37] Action: Laurenceb wishes it would stop raining
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> -> vertical tube of plastic.
[23:37] <Laurenceb> need to test the rogallo
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[23:44] Action: SpeedEvil ponders his purchase of 4 really large fans in a new light.
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> 40cm fan from homebase. Nice stainless steel, massive output, 2.50.
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> They were having a 90% off sale of odds-and-ends.
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> Filled the car.
[23:48] <Laurenceb> woops
[23:49] <Laurenceb> my prontf cant do numbers <1
[23:49] <Laurenceb> other than that it works :P
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[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Easy way to fix that.
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Change the printf("+") to the end.
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> And make it "printf("+1")
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> How much less is it using though seriously?
[23:53] <Laurenceb> much less what?
[23:57] <Laurenceb> code space - 200 bytes
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> yes
[00:00] --- Tue Nov 4 2008