highaltitude.log.20081024

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[00:44] <Laurenceb> hmmm can I be bothered to go outside and test this code...
[00:44] <Laurenceb> its cold and windy :-/
[00:45] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking of trying a route along pavements this time... maybe with my laptop in my bag to log data then two hands free to steady the payload from vibration
[01:17] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7684796.stm
[01:17] <Laurenceb> second one down doesnt look too friendly
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[01:40] <Laurenceb> natrium42: can you help me install a library for avr?
[01:40] <Laurenceb> http://jump.to/fleury
[01:41] <Laurenceb> I've downloaded the i2cmaster library
[01:41] <natrium42> ok
[01:41] <Laurenceb> but I'm not sure where to put the i2cmaster.S I presume somewhere other than where the header goes
[01:42] <natrium42> do you use makefiles?
[01:42] <Laurenceb> yep
[01:42] <Laurenceb> but I'm usng avr studio atm
[01:42] <Laurenceb> so its setup with a wizard
[01:42] <natrium42> does it have a rule for .S files?
[01:42] <Laurenceb> I'll look
[01:42] <natrium42> you need to make it compile .S files into .o
[01:43] <Laurenceb> hmm it has a library search path
[01:43] <Laurenceb> I presume most of avr libc is contained in lbc.a ?
[01:43] <Laurenceb> *libc.a
[01:43] <natrium42> yes
[01:44] <Laurenceb> ok I think I know where that lives
[01:44] <Laurenceb> hmm but I have a .S file
[01:45] <Laurenceb> I'm confused
[01:48] <natrium42> hmm, could you nopaste your makefile please?
[01:49] <Laurenceb> I dont have one
[01:49] <Laurenceb> just going through the avr studio gui
[01:49] <Laurenceb> it can only let me add .a or .o files
[01:50] <natrium42> where do you add your source files?
[01:50] <Laurenceb> I dont know
[01:50] <Laurenceb> thats the point :P
[01:51] <Laurenceb> so I have to precompile it to asm?
[01:51] <natrium42> .S is asm
[01:51] <Laurenceb> oh
[01:51] <Laurenceb> hmf
[01:52] <natrium42> just put it into your source folder
[01:52] <Laurenceb> maybe I could change the file extension
[01:52] <natrium42> maybe it will compile it automagically
[01:52] <Laurenceb> to .a ?
[01:52] <natrium42> no
[01:52] <natrium42> .a is compiled object
[01:52] <Laurenceb> put it with the .h ?
[01:52] <Laurenceb> sorry assemble
[01:52] <natrium42> just leave it as .S
[01:52] <natrium42> maybe avr likes .asm
[01:52] <Laurenceb> but where shall I put it?
[01:52] <natrium42> into the source folder
[01:52] <natrium42> you don't have to compile it as library
[01:53] <Laurenceb> I see
[01:53] <natrium42> it's easier to just use it there for now
[01:53] <Laurenceb> can I leave it with its header?
[01:53] <natrium42> sure
[01:53] <Laurenceb> ok, this makes sense now
[01:53] <natrium42> just treat it as any of your own source files
[01:54] <natrium42> the question is only whether avr studio will compile it without any extra steps :P
[01:54] <Laurenceb> avr lbc is a maze
[01:54] <Laurenceb> folders all over the place
[01:58] <Laurenceb> hmm it doesnt compile
[01:58] <Laurenceb> "undefined reference"
[01:58] <natrium42> in which file?
[02:00] <Laurenceb> main.c
[02:00] <Laurenceb> wher eI try to use it
[02:00] <Laurenceb> and yes I linked to the header
[02:00] <natrium42> you link to the .o file
[02:00] <natrium42> did it generate one from the .S?
[02:00] <Laurenceb> no
[02:00] <natrium42> i2cmaster.o should be there
[02:00] <Laurenceb> how do I do that?
[02:00] <natrium42> ok, then it didn't compile it
[02:01] <natrium42> you need to figure out how to make avr compile assembly files
[02:01] <Laurenceb> nope, its not there
[02:01] <natrium42> did you add it to the project?
[02:01] <natrium42> to the source files?
[02:03] <Laurenceb> ah done it
[02:03] <Laurenceb> I just added the .S to the project
[02:03] <natrium42> k
[02:03] <natrium42> now see if it compiles it to .o
[02:03] <Laurenceb> so whats the difference between .S and .a ?
[02:03] <natrium42> .S is asm source
[02:03] <natrium42> .a is compiled object in library form
[02:04] <Laurenceb> ok
[02:04] <natrium42> you can open .S with your editor and modify the source
[02:05] <Laurenceb> right
[02:05] <Laurenceb> hmm so all of the asm is compiled
[02:05] <Laurenceb> whereas with a library only the functions I use are added ?
[02:06] <natrium42> library == machine code with some meta information
[02:07] <natrium42> if the compiler is smart enough, it will not include unused functions regardless whether they are in a library or not
[02:07] <Laurenceb> yeah
[02:07] <Laurenceb> apparently not for i2cmaster at least
[02:08] <Laurenceb> its the same size regardless
[02:08] <Laurenceb> but it is very small... I'm only 34 bytes over the limit
[02:09] <natrium42> haha, very close
[02:09] <Laurenceb> so hopefully if I write my own code it will fit
[02:09] <natrium42> did you try adding optimize for size option?
[02:09] <Laurenceb> apparently that lib is unstable anyway
[02:09] <Laurenceb> yep
[02:09] <Laurenceb> as always :P
[02:09] <natrium42> k
[02:10] <Laurenceb> it can hang if theres noise on the data line
[02:10] <Laurenceb> according to #avr at least
[02:10] <natrium42> ah
[02:10] <natrium42> is it software I2C implementation?
[02:11] <Laurenceb> no hardware
[02:11] <natrium42> why would it die if there's noise then?
[02:11] <Laurenceb> I've added breakout for hardware I2C on the mini rogallo
[02:11] <natrium42> cool
[02:11] <Laurenceb> its waiting for an AK
[02:11] <natrium42> should time out, right?
[02:11] <Laurenceb> it should :P
[02:12] <Laurenceb> but it doesnt
[02:12] <natrium42> :P
[02:12] <Laurenceb> of course I could always stick a micro sd on the back of the radio
[02:14] <Laurenceb> well I'm knackered
[02:14] <Laurenceb> cya
[02:14] <natrium42> lates
[02:14] <Laurenceb> thanks for the help
[02:14] <natrium42> np
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[08:48] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:24] <gordonjcp> morning
[09:25] <jcoxon> hey gordonjcp
[09:29] Action: jcoxon starts to recompile the gumsix buildroot
[09:36] <jcoxon> i want to get 1 wire on a gpio :-)
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[12:29] <rjharrison> YIIIPPPEEEEEE
[12:29] <rjharrison> my 32gb card from kinston has arrived FOC
[12:40] <jcoxon> 32gb? that ridiculous
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> not microSD I spose?
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[13:22] <rjharrison> The batteries will be flat befor that is fill
[13:22] <rjharrison> full
[13:23] <rjharrison> Video of the pop comming up on the next launch
[13:24] <gordonjcp> oh heyu
[13:24] <gordonjcp> -u
[13:24] <gordonjcp> I had a thought, on the way to work
[13:24] <gordonjcp> can you send analogue signals over those ISM-band 400MHzish modules?
[13:25] <gordonjcp> 'cos you could send back fast-scan TV fairly easily
[13:30] <jcoxon> the radiometrix modules vary their freq depending on teh voltage
[13:39] <gordonjcp> ah, so you can't really send AM with them?
[13:39] <gordonjcp> I suppose you could use FM video
[13:41] <jcoxon> yeah, i don't think they do AM
[13:42] <rjharrison> Just looked at the videos form nova 8. Fantastic. To be fair I didn't look at these too much as i was keen to keep some of the fun for my own launch. I love the rizing sun.
[13:42] <jcoxon> :-)
[13:43] <jcoxon> just puting the final touches to my payload
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[14:22] <rjharrison> jcoxon is this w/e a possibility or is it next w/e
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[14:25] <rjharrison> .
[14:27] <jcoxon> next weekend
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[15:17] <jcoxon> afternoon all
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[15:22] <edmoore> hi
[15:28] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[15:28] <edmoore> yo
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[15:29] <jcoxon> hows stuff?
[15:29] <edmoore> http://spacefellowship.com/News/?p=7124
[15:29] <edmoore> armadillo in about 7 mins
[15:29] <jcoxon> ooooo
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[15:30] <jcoxon> i like the way the chat pops up
[15:31] <edmoore> i don't
[15:35] <jcoxon> hehe
[15:35] <jcoxon> it gets a little annoying
[15:35] <jcoxon> have to admit that
[15:35] <edmoore> danfredereikson is a tart
[15:36] <edmoore> ooooh
[15:36] <edmoore> restart count
[15:37] <edmoore> zoom out gits
[15:38] <edmoore> ok gtg
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[15:54] <jcoxon> tis quite exciting
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[16:12] <natrium42> go for launch
[16:12] <natrium42> ...
[16:12] <natrium42> launch
[16:12] <natrium42> omg
[16:14] <natrium42> very cool
[16:14] <jcoxon> do tehy have to go back now?
[16:15] <natrium42> damn FAA
[16:16] <natrium42> the wright brothers would have never achieved flight if FAA existed back then
[16:16] <rjharrison> Awsume
[16:16] <rjharrison> hahaha true
[16:16] <rjharrison> We patented the wright brothers airplane
[16:19] <rjharrison> Well we encorporated Brewer and Soms who did the patent filing I think we still have the records in our archive
[16:19] <jcoxon> thats cool
[16:19] <jcoxon> i've achieved so little today
[16:24] <rjharrison> Me too, so little
[16:25] <rjharrison> We need a broadcaster for the next missions. It really integrates you into the launch
[16:26] <rjharrison> Once we all have CALLSIGNS radio would be cool as we could bcast it on UStream
[16:27] <jcoxon> rjharrison, what do you mean, about the callsigns?
[16:29] <rjharrison> Well surly we could use radio coms at launch and feed this back into ustream
[16:29] <rjharrison> Perhaps chase too.
[16:29] <rjharrison> Just an idea. We could use a local repeater.
[16:29] <jcoxon> oh okay
[16:30] <jcoxon> we could use phones as well :-p
[16:30] <rjharrison> The callsigns wasnt ment to be in caps
[16:30] <rjharrison> Yep mut not so easy to conf. on and send to U stream
[16:30] <jcoxon> as our radios are busy receiving data
[16:30] <rjharrison> but
[16:31] <rjharrison> True. I would enviage not everyone tracking. Leave that to mission control JC and then use the radios at the end for collection.
[16:32] <jcoxon> for the sstv i'm going to need 2 radios
[16:32] <rjharrison> You'll need me to come down then :)
[16:32] <rjharrison> Plese Pleas
[16:32] <jcoxon> as i want to have a seperate machine reciving the pictures
[16:32] <rjharrison> :)
[16:32] <jcoxon> oh you are vital :-p
[16:33] <jcoxon> hehe, or ed and co or rocketboy
[16:33] <rjharrison> Haha
[16:33] <rjharrison> It woudl be good to come down but I need a pass from the wife
[16:33] <rjharrison> 3 kids is hard work for one
[16:34] <rjharrison> I'm asking for another radio for my birthday
[16:34] <jcoxon> another one!
[16:34] <jcoxon> pourquoi?
[16:35] <rjharrison> Base
[16:35] <rjharrison> I wan't one as a base station for the next launch. I have sent an email to CAA looking to see if there is an option for a notam for
[16:35] <rjharrison> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&saddr=52.747899,-0.494988&daddr=&hl=en&geocode=&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=19&sll=52.747999,-0.49505&sspn=0.001187,0.003216&ie=UTF8&ll=52.476089,-0.516357&spn=2.445849,6.586304&t=h&z=8
[16:36] <jcoxon> really?!?!
[16:36] <jcoxon> thats a terrible place
[16:36] <rjharrison> Explain
[16:36] <jcoxon> as the prevailing wind is SW it'll go straight into the Wash
[16:37] <rjharrison> But then use camb
[16:37] <jcoxon> hmmm
[16:38] <jcoxon> i'd say somewhere near St Neots would be best
[16:38] <jcoxon> but i think i main problem is not that we are too close to the sea - just that we launch when the weather isn't good
[16:39] <rjharrison> Ahh interesting
[16:39] <rjharrison> So do you think we could get a slow accent on a good day and stay within a 50mile boundry
[16:39] <jcoxon> yes
[16:40] <jcoxon> in the summer we had predicts where it would go to 30km alt and only go 10 miles
[16:40] <jcoxon> near a monster high pressure
[16:40] <rjharrison> I obv. only have a very limited experiance and that 118km went quite quickly
[16:40] <jcoxon> also means that there are little to no ground winds
[16:41] <jcoxon> we should get some nice high pressure systems in the winter
[16:41] <jcoxon> its incredibly cold but perfect flight conditions
[16:42] <jcoxon> perhaps we should put together a system to check out the weather system daily and the forecasts and alert us to good weather
[16:42] <rjharrison> Wjcoxon if you have access to charts and want to suggest a second location I'll be happy to listen to someone with more experiance
[16:42] <jcoxon> i'm happy with Cam to tell you the truth
[16:43] <rjharrison> I think it might be usefull to have two slightly different locations to take account of some vaiations in the wind
[16:43] <jcoxon> the charts are all going to changing in the next year as they are shifting the flight stacks
[16:44] <jcoxon> rjharrison, fair enough it might open up more days of launching but it encourages us to rush (which i'm terrible about doing)
[16:44] <jcoxon> i'm not sure
[16:44] <rjharrison> Mee too :)
[16:44] <rjharrison> I'm slowing down now
[16:44] <jcoxon> :-)
[16:45] <jcoxon> my plan is to be finished by tomorrow
[16:45] <rjharrison> I'm off to astronomy tonight and I'm taking my pics along
[16:45] <jcoxon> which gives a week of testing before a potential day comes up
[16:46] <rjharrison> Have access to a 12" reflector at the Huddersfield Observatory
[16:46] <jcoxon> nice
[16:47] <rjharrison> Given what you said there is a nice option just north of York which the CAA sais would be an option
[16:47] <rjharrison> If that makes sense
[16:49] <rjharrison> Will be tight though only 50m to the sea. Thats what drove me south. Thinking camb was an option I thought of covering the camb-colchester wind
[16:49] <jcoxon> hmmm i don't see it
[16:49] <jcoxon> sort of between york and scarborough?
[16:52] <rjharrison> Can you see east more on the chart above york?
[16:52] <rjharrison> moor even
[16:52] <jcoxon> it doesn't give very much range
[16:52] <rjharrison> Assuming you a re looking at a chart
[16:52] <rjharrison> Hum thats what I thought
[16:52] <jcoxon> its tough
[16:52] <rjharrison> Tinking big circle here
[16:52] <rjharrison> :)
[16:53] <rjharrison> So then I thought well camb is in great pos for sw wind
[16:53] <jcoxon> there is always scotland
[16:53] <rjharrison> Big hills for retrieval :)
[16:53] <rjharrison> Not to mention the odd lock
[16:53] <jcoxon> hehe
[16:53] <rjharrison> loch
[16:53] <jcoxon> you'll be suprised how suited cambridge is
[16:53] <rjharrison> and nessy
[16:53] <rjharrison> Very
[16:54] <jcoxon> and purely out of chance
[16:54] <rjharrison> So then I thought well how about covering the se wind too with the option above
[16:54] <jcoxon> i've been planing for quite a while to organise a amateur campagin in morocco
[16:55] <rjharrison> I don't have to drive so far :) And we have two options instread of one. Which is doable for the camb crew too
[16:55] <rjharrison> That was my thinking
[16:55] <jcoxon> you mean the york site?
[16:56] <rjharrison> No the other one by the wash
[16:56] <rjharrison> clearly a sw would be hopeless
[16:56] <jcoxon> hmmmmho
[16:57] <rjharrison> Filing that abandon the whole idea of second launch site
[16:57] <rjharrison> failing
[16:58] <jcoxon> oh i certainly think its worth exploring
[16:58] <jcoxon> especially as the future of the cam site is at risk
[16:58] <rjharrison> Cool so do I. Mr CAA is keen to get a solution too
[16:58] <jcoxon> he doesn't like cambridge?
[16:59] <rjharrison> Love's it
[16:59] <rjharrison> Just seems happy to give an alternative. I did start the conv. With I could just launch from camb
[16:59] <jcoxon> oh okay
[16:59] <jcoxon> i haven't spoken to David Miller for years
[17:01] <rjharrison> He seems very keen on the whole thing
[17:01] <rjharrison> Is that who you spoke to originally?
[17:01] <jcoxon> es
[17:01] <jcoxon> yes*
[17:01] <jcoxon> back in 2005
[17:02] <rjharrison> And then how do you get your NOTAM now
[17:02] <rjharrison> Just reapply?
[17:02] <jcoxon> rocketboy does it
[17:02] <jcoxon> he gets about 6 months at a time
[17:02] <jcoxon> he sorts out the general EARs one for their rockets as well
[17:03] <rjharrison> Seems sensible time frame! Through David ?
[17:03] <jcoxon> yeah i think so
[17:06] <rjharrison> Will you give some thought to a possible second location as I would be interested to hear your experianced view. Even if the conclusion is that cambridge is the center of the HAB world :-P
[17:07] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:07] <jcoxon> i'll have a think
[17:07] <rjharrison> Cool
[17:07] <jcoxon> i apologise for playing devils advocate
[17:07] <rjharrison> Right its friday and I'm off to astronomy tonight
[17:08] <rjharrison> So I'm getting out of here (work) will chat to you all later.
[17:11] <jcoxon> cya
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[17:16] <rjharrison> lol
[17:16] <rjharrison> Right I'm off
[17:16] <rjharrison> jcoxon put your thinking cap on, chat later
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> wave
[17:16] <rjharrison> r
[17:16] Action: rjharrison waves too
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[19:06] <edmoore> true zero boom
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[19:15] <Xenion> Good evening folks || Guten Abend Jungs :-)
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[21:56] <Xenion> Pennt jut, träumt was nettes ! || good night and sleep well :-)
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[22:40] <fuzzylugnuts> biggy noble
[22:40] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[22:40] <fuzzylugnuts> ....
[22:40] <fuzzylugnuts> <.<
[22:40] <fuzzylugnuts> >.>
[22:40] <fuzzylugnuts> biggy noble
[22:44] <natrium42> biggy noble?
[22:44] <fuzzylugnuts> biggy smalls :3
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[22:45] <fuzzylugnuts> southpark reference : P
[22:46] <natrium42> yeah
[22:46] <natrium42> i got it :P
[22:46] <fuzzylugnuts> ok : )
[22:47] Action: natrium42 gives fuzzylugnuts a nose
[22:47] Action: fuzzylugnuts eats it
[22:47] <fuzzylugnuts> mmmm, nose.
[22:48] <natrium42> spanish fry
[22:48] <fuzzylugnuts> isn't that some kind of aphrodisiac?
[22:48] <natrium42> yeah, futurama reference :P
[22:48] <fuzzylugnuts> oh
[22:49] <fuzzylugnuts> I only catch that show once ina while
[22:50] <fuzzylugnuts> its on too late usually.
[22:52] <natrium42> the new episodes suck
[22:52] <fuzzylugnuts> aww. lame.
[22:53] <fuzzylugnuts> I watched a new Simpsons the other day, it was so dumb
[22:54] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.all-battery.com/anyvoltmicrouniversaldc-dcconverterandvoltagestablizer.aspx
[22:55] <fuzzylugnuts> I picked up one of those the other day. Its a neat little adjustable dc dc converter
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[22:57] <natrium42> slow internet is slow
[22:57] <natrium42> fuzzylugnuts, nice little thing
[22:58] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah, a little pricey when you can build it yourself, but still a nice drop-in component
[22:59] <natrium42> yah, what's the efficiency?
[23:00] <fuzzylugnuts> 70ish comes to mind
[23:00] <fuzzylugnuts> better check the sheet though
[23:00] <natrium42> bah, not very efficient
[23:00] <fuzzylugnuts> there it is, 75%
[23:00] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah, its not great
[23:01] <fuzzylugnuts> it works for me. I'm using it to step up a single cell lithium to 5v.
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> I've got http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=67
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> Works for me
[23:05] Action: natrium42 tries to reimplement google calendar
[23:05] <fuzzylugnuts> am I reading that right
[23:05] <fuzzylugnuts> 3 bucks?
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> yes
[23:05] <fuzzylugnuts> wow
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> Got a few of them and the step-down ones, work well.
[23:05] <fuzzylugnuts> whats the efficiency?
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> 70%+
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> I haven't really checked closley, I suspect 90% or so at maybe half load - based on the topology
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> With 5V output and li-ion in
[23:07] <fuzzylugnuts> I like the layout
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> look up the chip for best-case numbers
[23:07] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure if those come with the screw-terminal breakout board.
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> Mine did.
[23:08] <fuzzylugnuts> *nod*
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> But that was a while back
[23:09] <fuzzylugnuts> is Sure a UK store?
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> no
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> hk
[23:09] <fuzzylugnuts> oh
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[23:09] <fuzzylugnuts> holy crap
[23:09] <fuzzylugnuts> I've gotten a few stuff off them on ebay
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[23:09] <fuzzylugnuts> they are very nice to deal with
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> they do ebay too
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=379
[23:10] <fuzzylugnuts> I feel wierd ordereing something from hk
[23:11] <fuzzylugnuts> its like, way the fuck over there
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> True.
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> But in practice, much stuff you're ordering from nearby came from there anyway.
[23:11] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
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[23:31] <fuzzylugnuts> I heart nibbler tools
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[00:00] --- Sat Oct 25 2008