highaltitude.log.20081004

[00:02] <fuzzylugnuts> ok. time to introduce gin to stomach and music to ears
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[00:05] <jcoxon> hey all
[00:05] <jcoxon> fixed my phone/tracker issue - works now
[00:05] <jcoxon> :-p
[00:14] <rharrison> Hi Guys just want you all to know that I now have a homemade hotwire cutter. Bring on the polystyrene
[00:15] <rharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus/cutter.jpg
[00:16] <rharrison> Thanks natrium42 & SpeedEvil for input and encouragement
[00:17] <rharrison> need to tidy the kitchen http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus/kitchen.jpg
[00:17] <rharrison> Hi jcoxon: Tracker all working fin now
[00:17] <rharrison> fine*
[00:19] <natrium42> jcoxon, what was the problem?
[00:19] <natrium42> rharrison, looks great
[00:20] <natrium42> is the wife out of house? :)
[00:20] Action: rharrison thinks config
[00:21] <rharrison> In bed it was tidy when she when and that pic was before I really made a mess
[00:21] <rharrison> when = went
[00:21] <natrium42> :D
[00:21] <rharrison> tidying up now befor bed
[00:22] <rharrison> How is the icon natrium42:
[00:26] <jcoxon> rharrison, oooo i'm jealous
[00:26] <jcoxon> the problem was that it would send any data such as 0.0 (when it didn't have a lock)
[00:26] <jcoxon> just added an if clause to sort that
[00:26] <natrium42> which icon?
[00:26] <jcoxon> rharrison, whats your power supply for that?
[00:26] <natrium42> jcoxon, cool
[00:27] <rharrison> 5v at 3.85 amp
[00:27] <rharrison> actually draws 4.18 amps
[00:27] <natrium42> jcoxon, this ---> http://crap.fi/archive/975.jpg
[00:27] <rharrison> Not bad for 3 hrs work after natrium42 convinced me hotwire cutter was the way to go
[00:28] <natrium42> yeah, i never had luck with sharp knife
[00:28] <natrium42> it works somewhat but becomes dull quickly
[00:28] <rharrison> The wet knife was crap. Now it just glides through and it's perfect for straight edges if you put a small guide in
[00:28] <jcoxon> natrium42, haha
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[00:29] <rharrison> When I was cutting the sides of the box and putting them on the base they looked like the leaning tower of piza and I was getting frustrated. Now the sides are perfect
[00:30] <jcoxon> i might make one :-)
[00:30] <rharrison> Bring on the payloads
[00:30] <jcoxon> bbiab
[00:31] <rharrison> Well worth it. The bit of aluminum ribon came from b&q for 3 quid and it puts quite a bit of tension in on the wire to keep it nice and tarught and straight
[00:31] <rharrison> taught
[00:38] <rharrison> Right time for bed for me
[00:38] <rharrison> Kitchen is now clean
[00:38] <natrium42> nite
[00:39] <rharrison> natrium42, once again thanks for the push tonight. BTW icom 7000
[00:39] <natrium42> sure thing
[00:39] <natrium42> gah still need to set up hf ant :P
[00:39] <rharrison> :)
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[09:28] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:35] <gordonjcp> morning
[09:36] <jcoxon> :-) we made a good move scrubbing launching today
[09:36] <gordonjcp> heh
[09:36] <jcoxon> forecasts put it quite far out to sea
[09:36] <gordonjcp> it's pretty nasty here
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[09:42] <jcoxon> gotta do some revision for my foundation exam tomorrow
[09:47] <gordonjcp> heh
[09:47] <gordonjcp> good luck with it
[09:51] <jcoxon> i'm also rather jealous of rharrison's hot wire cutter
[09:51] <jcoxon> might attempt my own
[10:05] <Hiena> http://8linx.com/cnc/cnc.htm <= I'm building one such like this.
[10:06] <gordonjcp> think I've just levered The Who - "Tommy" out of my head, after three days
[10:06] <gordonjcp> you know you sometimes get a song stuck in your head
[10:07] <gordonjcp> not fun when it's a whole double album
[10:09] <jcoxon> Hiena, ooo cool
[10:09] <jcoxon> gordonjcp, haha
[10:10] <Hiena> jcoxon, i'll a little bit scale up this thing 3m X 1.2m X 1m
[10:11] <jcoxon> wow
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[12:12] <SpeedEvil> On solar cells - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/36-3x3-solar-cells-35-watt-panel-new-style-cells-SALE_W0QQitemZ270283033997QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270283033997&_trkparms=72%3A1345|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> 1 quid a watt, bare cells
[12:20] <RocketboyV1> yeah - thats a good price - got to ship & import them though
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> There seem to be a few sellers now.
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.com/72-PACK-OF-HEAVY-SOLAR-CELLS-6-156mm-260W-TOTAL_W0QQitemZ180295573385QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3240QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> $49 shipment for 260W of cells.
[12:24] <RocketboyV1> gish "DIY LUST" - IO think I lost that years ago
[12:24] <RocketboyV1> gosh
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Well - it's a thirdish of the price of proper panels.
[12:26] <RocketboyV1> bbl
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> However for balloon purposes, oyu can't really use existing panels.
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> but bare cells have great power/weight
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[15:33] <edmoore> wow
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[15:33] <edmoore> a freenode burp
[15:40] <edmoore> all - http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8889
[15:41] <edmoore> this is the best gps you can get for ballooning, i would feel pretty confident to declare
[15:51] <Ei5GTB_> 50 channels?
[15:54] <edmoore> so it says
[15:54] <edmoore> not that there are than many satts
[15:54] <edmoore> but it is bollock-on
[15:54] <edmoore> the nicest chipset I have seen]
[15:54] <edmoore> and works all the way up
[15:55] <edmoore> put it this way - jcoxon used the not-as-good version of that chipset for haps, and on the kml you can clear see it recorded the corkscrewing of the parachute on the way down
[15:59] <soneil> edmoore: you're an evil man. I'm already in trouble for spending too much
[15:59] <edmoore> it's the sweetest bit of kit.
[15:59] <edmoore> badger2 will be using them, I am pretty sure
[16:00] <jcoxon> wow thats amazing
[16:03] <edmoore> we've been waiting for SF to start stocking these
[16:03] <edmoore> previously have had a 6 week lead time
[16:03] <edmoore> they're the best gps with the best kind of aerial in an off-the-shelf package
[16:03] <edmoore> glider here we come!
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[17:07] <natrium42> damn netsplits
[17:10] <natrium42> that gps is nice indeed
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[17:24] <Ei5GTB_> pitty i'm nont allowd a baloon to launch it in!
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> Tie it to a duck!
[17:38] <Ei5GTB_> heh
[17:47] <jiffe88> the gs405 indicates that there is a max of 60000ft, the gs406 doesn't say either way
[17:48] <jiffe88> at least not that I saw
[17:49] <soneil> Ei5GTB_: not allowed? you heard back ?
[17:50] <Ei5GTB_> well.... their making it very complicated
[17:50] <Ei5GTB_> http://ei5gtb.pastebin.com/m275272a6
[17:50] <Ei5GTB_> i need to try and figure out how to reply to that
[17:51] <soneil> fun
[17:53] <soneil> for his concerns, you might want to make a sitting duck of ed & co. GB commercial air sectors are just as, if not more crowded than ireland's, and they've not had any issues
[17:54] <soneil> figure out how long previous flights have been at commercial flightlevels given a sane kg lift, etc
[17:54] <Ei5GTB_> ed & co?
[17:54] <Ei5GTB_> my annoyance is that 4 baloons are launched in ireland every day..
[17:55] <fnoble> ed & co == CU Spaceflight
[17:55] <Ei5GTB_> cu spaceflight?
[17:55] <Ei5GTB_> oh., ok
[17:56] <Ei5GTB_> why make a sitting duck of?
[17:56] <soneil> an example of
[17:56] <soneil> they do this as often as they can, and if they're brought down any commercial flights lately, I haven't heard of it
[17:56] <fnoble> Ei5GTB_, the project me and ed and a few others are working on
[17:56] <fnoble> www.cuspaceflight.co.uk
[17:57] <Ei5GTB_> grr, i just have no enthusiasm to reply to it now
[17:57] <Ei5GTB_> must be the 10th e-mail
[17:58] <Ei5GTB_> i mean, correct me if im wrong, but you guys just have to make a phonecall
[17:59] <fnoble> Ei5GTB_, we have a NOTAM (notice to airmen) and then we call the tower 24hrs and 10mins before launch
[17:59] <Ei5GTB_> fuck, but the iaa are a crowd of idiots
[17:59] <fnoble> but its a grey area
[18:00] <Ei5GTB_> grey?
[18:00] <fnoble> we dont have any special permission, and i think if we asked for such then we would end up being refused because nobody wants to put their name to it
[18:01] <Ei5GTB_> i see.
[18:01] <Ei5GTB_> thats probably what will end up with me
[18:01] <Ei5GTB_> but why are the weather guys allowed do it?
[18:01] <fnoble> i mean, by law its unclear what permission you need, i think you dont really need any permission legally
[18:01] <Ei5GTB_> i see.
[18:02] <fnoble> i guess they must have a special arangement, they are providing a public service
[18:02] <Ei5GTB_> hmm
[18:02] <Ei5GTB_> but then, whats the definition of a public service? if i grace the national newspapers with images from my baloon is that not a public service?
[18:03] <fnoble> but then ireland != england so what i say about legality may not translate
[18:03] <fnoble> hehe, i dont knwo
[18:03] <soneil> I think the main catch is that it's easier for govt branches to get someone to listen
[18:03] <Ei5GTB_> *sigh* ye
[18:03] <fnoble> but as someone on this channel once said, its easier to beg forgivness than to ask for permission
[18:04] <soneil> That's pretty much what I'm working to at the moment. My plan is that once I eventually have something I'm ready to play with, to contact local ATC
[18:05] <fnoble> Ei5GTB_, maybe if you just phone the local ATC and ask if its ok then they will have a more straight answer
[18:05] <Ei5GTB_> local atc?
[18:06] <Ei5GTB_> we have 1 airport nearby
[18:06] <Ei5GTB_> i think it opens every once in a while
[18:06] <fnoble> air traffic control
[18:06] <Ei5GTB_> but apart from vfr flights there is no real trafic under local atc here
[18:06] <Ei5GTB_> shannon is my local atc
[18:07] <Ei5GTB_> or else shanwick
[18:07] <Ei5GTB_> which is in england..
[18:07] <Ei5GTB_> its all a load of crap
[18:08] <fnoble> yup :)
[18:08] <Ei5GTB_> long story short, iv lost all entusiasm for this project
[18:08] <fnoble> wait till you want to put a radio on the thing :)
[18:08] <Ei5GTB_> well, thats the thing....
[18:09] <Ei5GTB_> the only reason im getting permission from the iaa is that comreg will let me put a radio on it if the iaa allow me to fly irt
[18:09] <Ei5GTB_> and i need to copy comreg the correspondance with the iaa
[18:09] <fnoble> thats annoying
[18:10] <Ei5GTB_> tell me aboutm it
[18:10] <fnoble> im sure the iaa will agree to something in the end
[18:10] <fnoble> use us as an example if you want too
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> I have wondered how hard it is to train ducks.
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> Or other wildlife.
[18:12] <Ei5GTB_> to fly to 30km +
[18:12] <Ei5GTB_> ?
[18:12] <Ei5GTB_> probably difficult
[18:13] <Ei5GTB_> how often do you guys lanch in the uk?
[18:13] <soneil> by example, usually. If you fly to 30k, anything that sees you as a pack leader will try to follow ;)
[18:14] <fnoble> SpeedEvil, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon
[18:14] <fnoble> Ei5GTB_, it varies, we had a long gap but are flying maybe 2/month atm
[18:14] <fnoble> Ei5GTB_, 8 missions total
[18:14] <Ei5GTB_> grand
[18:14] <fnoble> (excluding things we have helped with like some of the UKHAS stuff)
[18:15] <Ei5GTB_> i want to keep trowing at him how easy it is for you guys and the american guys to do it
[18:16] <soneil> the US aren't such a great example .. they have an amazing amount of uncontrolled airspace
[18:17] <Ei5GTB_> oic
[18:18] <Ei5GTB_> well, what other "small" countrys do this?
[18:19] <soneil> I think the UK are your best example. they're more similar than dissimilar, with comparable airspaces. spain have been known to be a complete pain (asking for transponders onboard), so I'd try not to stray too far away
[18:19] <soneil> but the main thing I notice is that ascent slows as it gets higher .. it should rush thru regular airspace in a relatively (compared to overall flight time) short amount of time
[18:20] <soneil> the less time you spend in their airspace, the less they'll worry
[18:20] <Ei5GTB_> how lonhg would you guys generally spend in airspace?
[18:21] <Ei5GTB_> i was asked would there be a transponder on board
[18:21] <soneil> don't be too discouraged tho .. the difficult part of anything with the irish govt, is getting someone to admit they're the right person to ask. so you're over the hard part already :)
[18:22] <Ei5GTB_> ha
[18:22] <Ei5GTB_> but i dont want to have to go to all this bother every time i want to let a bloodey baloon go
[18:22] <fnoble> Ei5GTB_, once youve done it once it will be easy
[18:22] <soneil> I doubt you'll have to once you've got a sensible track record
[18:23] <Ei5GTB_> yea
[18:23] <soneil> you'll know who the right people are, you'll know what they want to hear, etc
[18:23] <Ei5GTB_> i spose i would just need some people with similar interests to come onboard
[18:23] <Ei5GTB_> i cant do it all on my own
[18:23] <fnoble> Ei5GTB_, you can always launch from Cambridge under our NOTAM
[18:23] <Ei5GTB_> but i live in ireland :P
[18:23] <fnoble> Ei5GTB_, but its a long way to go :)
[18:24] <Ei5GTB_> yea
[18:24] <soneil> I'd probably be more use if there was a sensible way for me to get that far north
[18:24] <Ei5GTB_> dinner, bbiasb
[18:24] <Kornholijo> bisobis
[18:24] <Ei5GTB_> bbiabdfibsdf
[18:24] <Kornholijo> hey fnoble
[18:24] <fnoble> hi Kornholijo
[18:24] <fnoble> hows tricks?
[18:24] <Ei5GTB_> soneil, well, the yoke would be launched not fomr here anyway...
[18:25] <Ei5GTB_> if the jetstream is runnin s/n i would have to go down south
[18:25] <Ei5GTB_> anyway, we'll talk later, dinner now..
[18:25] <soneil> and if it's w-e you'd be better off visiting me :p
[18:25] <Kornholijo> hm
[18:25] <soneil> bbiab also. not only is it the in thing, but I need to walk home :)
[18:26] <Kornholijo> bbiamfasuck
[18:26] <Kornholijo> lol
[18:27] <fnoble> Kornholijo, how is your project going? last i heard you were about to do a teathered test?
[18:28] <Kornholijo> didnt happen :/
[18:28] <Kornholijo> dont have my stuff still
[18:28] <Kornholijo> i was on the baloon ride though ;)
[18:29] <fnoble> your payload was on a HAB?
[18:29] <Kornholijo> no :(
[18:30] <Kornholijo> didnt have my payload
[18:30] <fnoble> or you were on a hot air balloon?
[18:30] <Kornholijo> i was
[18:30] <fnoble> oooh awesome
[18:30] <fnoble> always wanted to go on one
[18:31] <natrium42> me too
[18:32] <natrium42> only done tandem paragliding and tandem skydiving so far
[18:32] <Kornholijo> :o
[18:32] <Kornholijo> sounds fun
[18:32] Action: SpeedEvil has only done tandem bicycling.
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> Which is not quite the same thing.
[18:32] <natrium42> :)
[18:34] <fnoble> natrium42, how was paragliding, that is another thing ive always really wanted to do
[18:35] <natrium42> it was quite awesome (better than skydiving), you feel that you can actually fly
[18:35] <natrium42> and there is no noise as with a small airplane
[18:35] <fnoble> did you get a go on the controls?
[18:36] <natrium42> yep
[18:36] <natrium42> alot is done just shifting weight
[18:36] <natrium42> but there are also two handles
[18:37] <fnoble> cool, is it expensive to do a tandem to see what its like?
[18:38] <natrium42> unfortunately, but it's worth it IMO
[18:38] <natrium42> $250 or so
[18:38] <fnoble> unfortunately cambridge is one of the flattest parts of the UK :(
[18:38] <fnoble> oh thats not tooo bad, its more than that to do a skydive here
[18:39] <fnoble> will have to wait till i go back to my parents house in hilly devon
[18:39] <natrium42> http://picasaweb.google.ca/natrium/MicrosoftInternship?authkey=tzDhnlPZ7xs#
[18:39] <natrium42> i didn't make a lot of pics, but there are some in that folder
[18:40] <fnoble> did you do it from a plane?
[18:40] <natrium42> paragliding? no
[18:40] <natrium42> you just run down a hill
[18:41] <natrium42> http://picasaweb.google.ca/natrium/MicrosoftInternship?authkey=tzDhnlPZ7xs#5009406301938581906
[18:41] <natrium42> and get airborne
[18:41] <natrium42> and then look for rising air currents to get higher and higher
[18:41] <fnoble> yeah, thats what i thought, just from the seq of photos in the album it looks like you just got into a plane
[18:42] <natrium42> sorry, it's a bit mixed up in that folder
[18:42] <fnoble> :)
[18:45] <Kornholijo> wtf
[18:45] <Kornholijo> microsoft internship?
[18:47] <natrium42> uhmm...
[18:48] Action: Kornholijo hates microsoft
[18:48] <fnoble> microsoft products tend to suck, but the r&d labs to some cool ass stuff
[18:48] <fnoble> *do
[18:49] <natrium42> yeah, and they are hard to get into :P
[18:50] <natrium42> i worked on a usb audio driver for windows CE 6
[18:50] <natrium42> it was pretty fun
[18:58] <soneil> not MS's biggest fan myself, but I'd wouldn't sniff at having that on my CV
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[19:10] <rharrison> evening all
[19:11] <rharrison> made my first tx today
[19:15] <fnoble> bbl
[19:19] <natrium42> hi rharrison
[19:41] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ectomo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/dhcxav.thumbnail.jpg
[19:45] <natrium42> hehe
[19:45] <natrium42> http://theinternetisterrible.com/wp-content/things/figure.PNG
[19:48] <SpeedEvil> Balloon camera.
[19:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ectomo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/3rdeye_quarter.jpg
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[19:53] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, reminds me the WH40k servo skulls.
[20:18] <jcoxon> ooooo guys Ei5GTB_ fnoble just reading back
[20:18] <jcoxon> just to say we do have permission
[20:20] <jcoxon> there is a balloon section in the air regulaions from the CAA
[20:24] <Ei5GTB_> wha?
[20:24] <jcoxon> "i mean, by law its unclear what permission you need, i think you dont really need any permission legally"
[20:25] <jcoxon> its clear in law for the uk
[20:55] <rharrison> jcoxon: Managed to get to my foundation course today
[20:55] <rharrison> made my first tx to some 11 year old kid on the otherside of town
[20:56] <rharrison> Hotwire cutter rocks
[20:56] Action: SpeedEvil wants a hotwire cutter for rocks.
[20:56] <jcoxon> cool
[20:56] <jcoxon> have you got your licence then?
[20:56] <rharrison> I discovered that my wire isn't nichrome it's nickle and copper
[20:56] <rharrison> No
[20:57] <rharrison> That is in 5 weeks time
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> avr: normal cable - maybe 8mm wide, 3mm deep, 1mm conductors
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> oops
[20:57] <rharrison> 5 3hr sessions with some very strange people
[20:58] <jcoxon> rharrison, hehe, my exam is tomorrow
[20:58] <jcoxon> haven't done any work for it
[20:58] <rharrison> I mean like weird. I'm going to take a camera with me next week
[20:58] <jcoxon> oh well
[20:58] <rharrison> Good luck but I'm sure you'll walk it
[20:59] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:59] <Hiena> rharrison, try the wire from the TIG welder: cheap, and it has longer lifetime.
[20:59] <rharrison> Just going to watch the end of the x factor and put the kids to bed
[20:59] <Hiena> Khm...TIG welder wire.
[20:59] <rharrison> Hiena: will do is it better than nicrome
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> resistance isn't really what you care about.
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> It's tensile strength at the operating temperature.
[21:01] <rharrison> Yep the stuff sems to snap after about 30 cuts
[21:02] <Hiena> I'm using such wire about 8 years long. It's a clean metal wire with some copper, and has a greater mechanical streght at the high temperature.
[21:03] <Hiena> With my old pal, we done some insane cuts. For exampe, 40 pcs. 1m wing panel within 2 hours.
[21:04] <jcoxon> bbl
[21:05] <rharrison> Hiena do you have a link to the right kind of wire
[21:05] <rharrison> I'm interested
[21:07] <Hiena> Ugh... It's a common 0.8mm TIG welder wire. Usually i get it, from some mechanical workshop for free.
[21:08] <rharrison> Ok cool I'll track it down
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> what TIG wire is it? what alloy?
[21:10] <Hiena> Dunno. looks like a common steel ally with a thin brasscoat.
[21:13] <natrium42> jcoxon, we need this technology --> http://demos.immersivemedia.com/index.php?clip=BJ
[21:15] <natrium42> (you can rotate the view)
[21:24] <Hiena> Interesting.
[21:24] <Hiena> Seems like a well processed panorama optic shot.
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[22:53] <fuzzylugnuts> http://coyotefirecracker.selfip.com/solar.jpg
[22:54] <fuzzylugnuts> solar panel goodness
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[23:29] <rharrison> humm payload coning in at 1kg
[23:29] <rharrison> coming
[23:32] <jnd> including the cat?
[23:32] <jnd> more like kitten with 1kg
[23:34] <rharrison> That does include 230g od gsm gps
[23:34] <rharrison> of*
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[23:38] <rharrison> Payload insulated box comes in at 434g
[23:57] <fuzzylugnuts> when are you launching?
[23:59] <natrium42> not today :(
[23:59] <natrium42> :~(
[23:59] <fuzzylugnuts> aww
[00:00] --- Sun Oct 5 2008