highaltitude.log.20081002

[00:00] <edmoore> it's obviously bigger than gumstix
[00:00] <edmoore> but you've got 2 ethernet ports on it, for one
[00:00] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[00:01] <fuzzylugnuts> this looks best suited for a ground station thing to cover all the communication between the balloon and ground, if you're doing a transciver thing
[00:02] <fuzzylugnuts> have you found the power consumption?
[00:06] Action: natrium42 sets fuzzylugnuts up a focused camera
[00:06] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah yeah ;P
[00:06] <natrium42> :P
[00:07] <fuzzylugnuts> it showed the board mounting grooves and I'm too lazy to take another
[00:09] <edmoore> just emailed my friend who asked for a 'sit rep' (after a few backwards/forwards emails). I mentioned I was watching sister act
[00:09] <fuzzylugnuts> ut o
[00:10] <edmoore> his reply was simply:
[00:10] <edmoore> I think you might be broken.
[00:10] <fuzzylugnuts> ...hahaha
[00:10] <fuzzylugnuts> he's just jealous
[00:12] <fuzzylugnuts> yesterday I found "gpsbabel"
[00:12] <fuzzylugnuts> it can take nmea and make a kml file, seems useful
[00:13] <edmoore> annoying habit: hitting 'tab' when not on irc or command line, but when typing prose in an email, and then being suprised that it doesn't auto-complete what I'm thinking of typing.
[00:13] <fuzzylugnuts> haha...
[00:14] <natrium42> i do that too
[00:17] <edmoore> that said, i sometimes get emails from people who finish sentences with semi-colons
[00:17] <fuzzylugnuts> that reaches a new level of geekyness
[00:20] <edmoore> and finally... today i was talking to someone who wants to help with one of our projects. he was describing his 'hovering high altitude platform' and I said it was a bit ambitious perhaps for us at the moment and that he should try and limit the scope a bit
[00:20] <edmoore> his reply:
[00:20] <edmoore> { 'hovering high altitude platform' }
[00:22] <fuzzylugnuts> that is just too much
[00:23] <fuzzylugnuts> omg. have you seen the nelson mandela advertisements?
[00:23] <edmoore> no?
[00:24] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el4J4VyTVt0&feature=related
[00:25] <edmoore> :D
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[18:24] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:25] <jnd> 'ey
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[18:27] <Hiena> ...
[18:35] <jnd> ???
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[18:36] <natrium42> hi
[18:38] <jcoxon> hey
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[18:43] <Hiena> Hi all!
[18:47] <natrium42> Hi
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[18:50] <Hiena> Seems like, the guys at the BUT will start cooperation with the SolarImpulse team.
[18:50] <Hiena> I hopes, some leftover will fall to me.
[18:57] <Hiena> But i still don't likes, the planned flight route for that project. Flying between 3000 and 8000m 33 hours long with a popsickle wings, makes me itching...
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> If you pick the right weather...
[19:02] <Hiena> Yeah, but still a daredevil thing.
[19:03] <Hiena> I would prefer the flight between 15 and 18.000m. There would be 15% extra power and stable conditions.
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> And much higher airspeed/...
[19:11] <Hiena> Jup. Less flightime.
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[19:58] <rharrison> eveing all
[19:58] <rharrison> evening even
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[20:06] <rocketboy> rharrison: hiya - I just sent an email 2 u
[20:09] <rharrison> Reading now
[20:15] <rocketboy> ta - the fact that u got it is encouraging
[20:16] <rocketboy> somthing strange with my emails at the mo
[20:19] <rharrison> rocketboy: The pinout is on page 200 odd if the datasheet. That was all was sent from dpie
[20:19] <rharrison> of*
[20:20] <rharrison> Forwarded an email to you from belgium supplier. TOtex was a bit worried that I was going to kill people with the payload. I have let them know that we do our best to minimise risk
[20:20] <rocketboy> ah OK
[20:21] <rharrison> Interesting that they care at all in Japan, I thought there human rights were as bad as Chinas
[20:21] <rharrison> their*
[20:22] <rharrison> Fingers get carried away
[20:23] <rocketboy> So you just sent me an email again?
[20:24] <rharrison> Yep did you get it?
[20:25] <rharrison> I replied to yours
[20:25] <rharrison> Worth cheking your spam folder if you have one
[20:25] <rocketboy> hum - yet to arrive
[20:25] <rharrison> My server send immediately
[20:25] <rharrison> sends
[20:25] <rocketboy> yep i have been checking the spam
[20:25] <rharrison> humm
[20:26] <rocketboy> btw where did you get the tonna from?
[20:27] <rharrison> tonna?
[20:28] <rocketboy> didn't you buy a tonna yagi (perhaps it was someone else)
[20:28] <rharrison> Oh yes
[20:29] <rharrison> That's right it a tonna
[20:30] <rharrison> I got it from http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/20909-tonna-70cm-440mhz-yagi-p-2321.html?osCsid=08a6cc52910a4d1743ed4fd0b59460ef
[20:31] <rharrison> Not used to hearing it called a Tonna. I didn't really know what I was looking for other than a big yagi on 70cm
[20:32] <rharrison> No email yet?
[20:33] <rocketboy> nope - there is pleanty of other emails (spam) arriving though
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[22:07] <jcoxon> evening again
[22:13] <rocketboy> hi jcoxon
[22:14] <jcoxon> hey ro
[22:14] <jcoxon> damn
[22:14] <jcoxon> hey rocketboy
[22:15] <rharrison> Hi jcoxon
[22:15] <rharrison> Been having a good chat with rocketboy
[22:16] <jcoxon> cool cool
[22:16] <rharrison> Is there any way you cam remove an email address from the loggs. Posted one into the wrong window earlier
[22:16] <jcoxon> i can
[22:16] <jcoxon> and i shall
[22:17] <rharrison> Cheers
[22:17] <jcoxon> however please be careful
[22:20] <jcoxon> done
[22:20] <rharrison> thanks
[22:20] <rharrison> Will be a bit slower next time
[22:20] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:20] <jcoxon> so whats been planned?
[22:21] <rocketboy> anyways - tanks to rharrison for testing out my email
[22:21] Action: rharrison jibbers slightly with launch fever
[22:21] <jcoxon> oh
[22:21] <rharrison> The bloody weather is all over the place
[22:22] <jcoxon> indeed
[22:22] <rharrison> Will try to concentrate on making a nice payload container this w/e
[22:22] <jcoxon> patience
[22:22] <jcoxon> lots of testing - i never do it and pay the price :-p
[22:23] <rharrison> I have brought an SMA crimp tool for making custom lenght antenna
[22:23] <jcoxon> oh that sounds good
[22:23] <rharrison> So if anyone has any request I can knock up at cost
[22:23] <rharrison> requests
[22:23] <jcoxon> :-)
[22:24] <rharrison> My antenna have 5m cables on them. Great for testing out the window but I don't want to send this all up
[22:24] <rharrison> Going to make them 25cm and conver the remainer into an extension for testing out the window from my desk
[22:31] <jcoxon> rocketboy, oooo i had a cool idea today
[22:31] <jcoxon> using the sound card on hte gumstix we could actually run 2 radios
[22:31] <jcoxon> just have the enable lines attachd to different gpios and attach tx to the 2 lines from the socket
[22:32] <jcoxon> then we could switch easily between the 2 radios
[22:32] <rocketboy> oh yeh stereo
[22:32] <rharrison> 2 antenna one on top one on the bottom?
[22:33] <rocketboy> yeah - we did that before - a monopole on the bottom and a co-ax dipole on the top
[22:37] <rocketboy> I must think of some way to reliably & cheaply attach connections to aluminium foil
[22:38] <rocketboy> some form of compression joint
[22:38] <rharrison> Sticky foal tape?
[22:38] <rharrison> foil
[22:38] <rocketboy> Ali foil would be great for monopole groundplane
[22:38] <rharrison> There surely myst be conductive foil tape
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> There is.
[22:38] <rocketboy> copper
[22:39] <rocketboy> is good by a bit heavy
[22:40] <rocketboy> its not so much the foil as making a good connection to it
[22:41] <rocketboy> copper brass etc is good (solder) but heavy
[22:41] <rocketboy> aluminium would be good if there was some way to make a reliable contact
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> You can solder Al.
[22:42] <rocketboy> Oh yeah - so thay say - but have you ever tried it?
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> build up a solder bead, then abrade the Al under the solder bead with flux present
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Practically, a small bolt, a nut, and a couple of washers.
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Job done.
[22:42] <rocketboy> yeah - tryed it many times
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> And yes - it's 'easy' with thick stuff.
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> With foil it's gonna be tricky.
[22:43] <rocketboy> soldering ali - normal,, & special solder, under flux, oil, in an inert atmophere - never worked for me
[22:45] <rharrison> Can't you tape a bit of copper to the ali and solder on to the copper?
[22:45] <rocketboy> conductive glue?
[22:45] <rocketboy> (it exists)
[22:45] <natrium42> silver solder!
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> But a little bolt and a couple of washers may be drastically easiest.
[22:46] <rocketboy> yeah a compression joint
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> Or scrunch up a coener and attach a croc-clip.
[22:47] <natrium42> mmh, conductive velcro
[22:47] <natrium42> there should be conductive velcro...
[22:47] <rocketboy> I,m thinking middle of s heet here - for a ground plane connection
[22:47] <rocketboy> sheet
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> I'd go with a couple of 8mm NdYag magnets.
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> Err
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> Not NdYag
[22:48] <rocketboy> yeah poss
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4248
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> those
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> you can solder to them (carefully, don't overheat, or they will demagnetise, but to an edge works fine.
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> then just one underneath, one on top of foil.
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> Work great for batteries too.
[22:50] <rocketboy> bbl
[22:50] <rharrison> ooh just press my tx on my radio and by crist you can hear it in the speakers
[22:51] <rharrison> laters
[22:51] <rharrison> 5 watts
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[22:53] <Laurenceb_> hello folks
[22:54] <rharrison> Evening Laurenceb_
[23:01] Action: SpeedEvil tries to remember what he said when Laurenceb_ went away.
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> that was a long time ago :P
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> You do take anti-static precautions?
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> to an extent
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> (you were asking 'what are the chances of dead uart out of tube'
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> yes
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> I do need to get an antistatic work surface
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> I have a nice one.
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> where from?
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> With a gold 'RoDime' logo on.
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> Got from the final auction.
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> I see
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> (one of the first PC disk drive makers)
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> ha
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> Sold I think around 1K worth of stuff from their skips.
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> nice one
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> My best scope came from there too on reflection.
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> (200MHz analog)
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> bare wood, either damp, or sprayed with 'anti-static' furniture spray is typically good enough.
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> well the good news is my code is almost ready
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> I'll just order a load of AVRs
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> They can fail in use after a static event.
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> I know
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> but this one was fresh out of the tube
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> the hardware is coming on as well, just need to fit the wings onto the enclosure and glue in the boards
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> hopefully ready for november still
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> wings?
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> well rogallo "wings"
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> you're not doing the parafoil/rolaglo thign?
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> so its a hardwood dowel construction with aluminium brackets
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> Balsa is a hardwood too!
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> And a polystyrene shroud?
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> I've forgotten the name of the wood - its similar to mahogany but finer grained
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> got it from richard burbage
[23:13] Action: SpeedEvil has recently been buying timber too.
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> but if you dont have a trade account with them you could just go to homebase, think they stock the same products
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> Leading to a 100 mile journey with a micra with 30 fenceposts in the back.
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> haha
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> (I had to go anyway - the fenceposts were a side-trip)
[23:13] Action: SpeedEvil is learning to fence.
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> Or to be offencive.
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> Existing house one is falling down.
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> I've done way to much diy over the past 4 months
[23:15] Action: SpeedEvil is getting on a 10m ladder tomorrow to fix roof.
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> If not back, avenge death.
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> ha
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> Pondering band-aid or fix for 100 years.
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> That and pondering making windows from oak.
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> we chucked out a load of pitch pine windows
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> Good pine can be great for windows.
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> Obtaining good pine - high resin content slowgrown - can be hard though.
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> we were just running out of space, so they had to go on the skip
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> this is part of a massive project to insulate my house properly.
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> someone told me later they were worth £300 each :(
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> Idiots who partially understand heating go on about thermal mass being wonderful and reducing your bills.
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> Yes I have 60cm stone walls.
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> but... it is ?
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> you need thermal mass
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> But tehy are about as much use as 1cm of proper insulation.
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> thermall mass + low emissivity windows + insulation
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> + insulation is the key bit.
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> yes
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> Hence me ripping out all the plasterboard, and putting 8cm on the inside, then replacing.
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> but just insulation and your internal temperature is unstable
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> Horrible job.
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> A) unstable.
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> B) Fucking cold.
[23:20] Action: SpeedEvil picks A and thermostats.
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> we have some concrete flooring and also exposed chimneys, which seems to be enough to keep the temperature pretty stable
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> i.e. atm its hovering around 17C
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> Then once that's done - which should 1/3 the heating bill - I need to look at the floor.
[23:21] Action: SpeedEvil currently has 34 sheets of plasterboard stacked in the hall.
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> what insulation are you using?
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> 8cm 'factoryclad' glass fibre.
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> hmm :/
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> slightly better insulative quality than your average glass - .32 vs .40
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> the insulation backed stuff from british gypsum is the best
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> And nice to work with.
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - well.
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> polyisocyanurate
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Price was an issue.
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> IIRC that'd be ~4K - this was ~500
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> ebay++
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> we used that everywhere apart from downstairs
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> It's certainly the easier solution.
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> where we have a loadbearing steel drylining system thats a bit thicker
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Construction here is quite simple.
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> well I dont like dot and dabbing myself
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> 'foundations, what are they?'
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> ha
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> framed dry lining is more work but easier to get right IMO
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> Seems to be the wall widens to ~1m thick, and basically is 1 foot or so down.
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> That's what I'm going for.
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> unfortunately the thermal resistivity or rigid board products isnt as good
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> Installing insulation on pegs in drilled holes.
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> dont know why - they seem to go for more flexible foam
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> yeah, I saw some photos
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> Stone varies from 'I can't believe it's not butter' to neutronium.
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> you're probably hitting lime mortar
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> Naah.
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> _really_ hard local granite.
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> do you have an SDS drill?
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> Diamond core bit.
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> I meant the soft stuff
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> neat :P
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Yes - SDS too.
[23:27] Action: Laurenceb_ has a screwfix account
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> very good prices, not sure if they are around in scotland
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> Also got some stainless rod, and some epoxy from ebay to secure bits of concrete that may want to spall off.
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> deliver.
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> Though recent purchases were oddly from amazon.
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00150H4PS - very handy screwdriver.
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> Actually powerful enough to be worth it.
[23:30] <Laurenceb_> oh wow
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> And http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000WQOXV4 - sort of rotary jigsaw thingy
[23:30] Action: Laurenceb_ just flashed his atmega
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> turns out I was using mismatched versions of the pc and avr side bootloader app
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> Is it alive?
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> Yay!
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> v1.8 and v2.1
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> PEBKAC
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> so my only outstanding "issue" is the uart that got fried on another of my ICs
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> I like that the STM32 chips have serial bootloader in ROM.
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> anyway, so my bootloader app got confused and was telling me there was bitrot in flash
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> thats a nice feature
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> Where it was just the wrong version?
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> bootloader apps are proving to be a headache, but I guess its a good learning experience
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> Not much room for error at that level - as it tends to just sulk if it's not all right.
[23:34] <Laurenceb_> I have some photos somewhere, just a sec
[23:34] <Laurenceb_> (€of construction work)
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[23:38] <Laurenceb_> this is the bownstairs wall construction - here its not leadbearing as the floor was reinforced
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> http://imagebin.ca/view/EvDB2JHS.html
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> Structural or fake beam?
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> its a 2 inch timber frame set out from the wall by ~1/2 " with plastic tubes then filled in insulation boards
[23:40] <rocketboy> ha a 10 minute job - what have you been doing for the rest of the time
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> lol
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: sounds broadly similar - though I've used timber pegs.
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> nooo
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> well ok unless you have damp I guess
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> If the walls are damp - they need fixed.
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> At least here.
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> as you can see its very low and close to the road
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> the pink stuff is fire retardent - you have to inject that for building regs
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> if there's a fire you can yet flames going up the cavity and its impossible to put out
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[23:43] <SpeedEvil> AIUI what I'm doing complies with regs - broadly.
[23:44] <rocketboy> night
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[23:44] <SpeedEvil> Time consuming though :/
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> the beam is structural, but we've put it in as the old floor joists are pretty woodwormed
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> Fortunately, this place is structurally sound - just cold :)
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> I was torn between a bodge, and fixing it properly as I'm doing now.
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> I could just have filled the cavity (between plasterboard and wall) with polystyrene beads - which would have lasted some years - but caused major condensation.
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah theres some neat applications for assesing condensation risk
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> we used one to design that area of wall
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> I'm using a 1.5-2cm or so gap behind the insulation, ventilated at the top, with provision to add blowers if needed to dry it out.
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> interesting idea
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> Brute forcing it.
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> ha
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> slightly eccentric
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> I _think_ it should be OK without - but worst case...
[23:50] <Laurenceb_> theres a bitumin coating on the inside surface of that wall to check ingressing moisture - then adhesive alu foil on the outward facing side of the insulation panels
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> so the cavity is pretty much a sealed space
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> as the skirting is foamed on for fire protection
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> In my case, the floor cavity is open to the walls.
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> So quite a lot of dampness can get there in principle.
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> ah, we have solid floors
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> suspended floor over sand.
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> And of course there is the annoying issue of needing a spare house to put the stuff from this one while doing the work :/
[23:54] <SpeedEvil> Not to mention crappy health meaning I can't do as much as I'd like.
[23:57] <natrium42> Hello Mr. Blaxter and Mr. Evil
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> Leaving that beam exposed?
[00:00] --- Fri Oct 3 2008