highaltitude.log.20080914

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[00:17] <Laurenceb_> I've been using the mlx90609
[00:17] <Laurenceb_> very low temperature drift
[00:46] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: yeah - I was just looking at teh sticker price - which on reflection won't be in 1s
[00:48] <Laurenceb_> coolcomponents.co.uk sell the mlx90609 on sparkfun's board in the UK
[00:48] <Laurenceb_> £32 ex vat whicgh isnt bad IMO
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> that's a 3 axis?
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> 2
[00:49] <Laurenceb_> no single
[00:49] <Laurenceb_> but its a *very* good gyro
[00:50] <Laurenceb_> sparkfuns board less so
[00:50] <SpeedEvil> deg/s/sqrt(Hz)?
[00:51] <Laurenceb_> 0.03
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> nice
[00:53] <Laurenceb_> but the really nice thing is the temperature drift is virtually nonexistant
[00:53] <Laurenceb_> <3 lsb from 20C to -25C in my tests
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> Specced, or in the one you have?
[00:54] <Laurenceb_> in my tests
[00:54] <Laurenceb_> drift with supply voltasge is worse that ADs offerings, but thats a bit easier to control
[00:55] <Laurenceb_> voltage regulators are pretty good if you dont abuse them
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
[00:56] <SpeedEvil> Temp is harder - unless you do the oven thing.
[00:56] <Laurenceb_> well the idea is to use the temp sensor built into the IC
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> and a function fitted to test data to find the null
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> but thats a bit of a pain
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> as you dont want all the floating point in your kalman filter routine
[00:58] <Laurenceb_> so if you say use an RTOS or interrupt, you have to shuffle data around
[00:58] <Laurenceb_> and arange sharing protocols for the spi
[00:58] <Laurenceb_> to avoid a clash
[00:59] <Laurenceb_> ie some code running at say 1Hz keeps track of the temperature and finds the null point, whilst your filter beavers away at say 50Hz
[01:00] <Laurenceb_> what happens when your 1Hz code is reading temperature over spi and gets interrupted by the filter code
[01:02] <Laurenceb_> I guess I could read the temperature from the filter routine and pass back the result to the null finding code, but that adds to the filter runtime
[01:03] <Laurenceb_> on top of this you have to calibrate it all in a freezer which is pretty risky
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> just read it at the 50Hz loop, and drop temp into a variable
[01:05] <Laurenceb_> that adds several hundered uS to the filter... but I guess I can afford that
[01:06] <Laurenceb_> unless its compressed from 11 bits down to 8 it will require two copies of the variable and a flag byte
[01:06] <Laurenceb_> to pass it back from the filter ISR
[01:08] <Laurenceb_> or there is a risk of corruption as its an 8 bit system
[01:08] <Laurenceb_> anyway time for some sleep, cya
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[01:11] <SpeedEvil> np: Blondie - Atomic
[01:24] <fuzzylugnuts> and now for something copletely different... Why I miss idaho: http://68.34.212.42/caribou_2/caribou.html
[01:27] <jiffe88> what are you guys typically using for cutdowns? I've heard a lot mentioned, but most sounds theoretical, not sure what is used in practice
[01:28] <fuzzylugnuts> I use pyrotechnic cutdown
[01:28] <fuzzylugnuts> alot of the other guys use that too
[01:28] <jiffe88> do you have your parachute inline?
[01:28] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah, the cutdown is mounted just above the parachute
[01:28] <jiffe88> and it doesn't burn the chute in anyway?
[01:29] <fuzzylugnuts> nope
[01:29] <jiffe88> ok, thats my only worry, I guess I can do tests to make sure too
[01:29] <fuzzylugnuts> sure
[01:30] <fuzzylugnuts> I use smokeless poweder, the flame doesn't last as long and the max pressure is alot higher than black powder.
[01:31] <fuzzylugnuts> http://68.34.212.42/scrap/cutdown1.jpg
[01:31] <fuzzylugnuts> http://68.34.212.42/scrap/cutdown2.jpg
[01:32] <jiffe88> did you make that or is that manufactured?
[01:32] <fuzzylugnuts> I made that
[01:32] <fuzzylugnuts> ÿthat was about 0.2g of powder, in the end I went with a bigger charge ~1g.
[01:33] <SpeedEvil> I made a test cutdown device that worked well for me.
[01:33] <SpeedEvil> (in tests)
[01:33] <SpeedEvil> A small ceramic power resistor rated to 300C surface temp.
[01:33] <SpeedEvil> A length of nylon fishing line wrapped once round it.
[01:34] <SpeedEvil> Enough power to heat it to 250C
[01:34] <fuzzylugnuts> jiffe88: the plastic was the AB liquid stuff, you could use epoxy too.
[01:34] <SpeedEvil> (over ambient)
[01:35] <fuzzylugnuts> jiffe88: a tiny 3v bulb with the glass broken away was used as an ignitor... only required 20ma to set off
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> That works too - but 5W is quite a managable amount of power for even teeny batteries nowadays, and the benefit is not dealing with any explosives hastle.
[01:38] <fuzzylugnuts> depends what you feel comfortable with
[01:39] <fuzzylugnuts> and the availability of the material. I can go to the store here and buy 8lbs of smokeless powder.... and I know its not that way in all countries
[01:40] <fuzzylugnuts> heck, even match heads would work.
[01:40] <fuzzylugnuts> the amount needed is so little.
[01:40] <fuzzylugnuts> that cutdown I made was meant to handle 30lbs, btw.
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> I prefer stuff I can use over and over I guess.
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> New fishing line and good to go.
[01:43] <fuzzylugnuts> so yeah, jiffe88, there are a few options
[01:49] <jiffe88> cool I'll have to play around with that
[03:00] <fuzzylugnuts> oh man... people falling off unicycles is always funny.
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[03:43] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: ""Don't let worry kill you -- let the church help.""
[03:49] <fuzzylugnuts> amen to that.
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[08:00] <robert1971> morning all
[08:00] Action: ShellEvil yawns.
[08:01] <robert1971> Quite a successful day yesterday. Got the beacon built and tested it to 15 miles over land and signal was clear as a bell.
[08:01] <robert1971> ShellEvil you not been to bed yet!
[08:06] <ShellEvil> I have _really_ screwed up sleep patterns.
[08:06] <ShellEvil> I've been up since ...
[08:06] <ShellEvil> 10PM?
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[10:11] <edmoore> morning jcoxon
[10:12] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[10:12] <edmoore> all well ce matin?
[10:15] <jcoxon> little bit tired
[10:15] <jcoxon> had an impromtu house party
[10:15] <edmoore> :)
[10:15] <jcoxon> impromptu*
[10:18] <jcoxon> and yourself?
[10:19] <edmoore> not achieved much this monring. Iain is coming down tomorrow and we're gong to my old school to build a new payload
[10:20] <jcoxon> oh cool
[10:20] <jcoxon> as in working with teh students or using the facilities?
[10:21] <edmoore> using the facilities :)
[10:21] <edmoore> though I thinking working with students is def on the cards
[10:21] <edmoore> I sent the 360 pan from nova 8 to my old head of dt, and I've never seen him so excited
[10:22] <jcoxon> and arduino version would be a good start
[10:22] <edmoore> that's what we're basing the space challenge on.
[10:22] <jcoxon> oh right, cool
[10:22] <edmoore> it's basically a tiny version of this louisiana hasp thing :)
[10:23] <jcoxon> as in lots of other payloads which are submitted with a badger for tracking?
[10:24] <edmoore> yes
[10:24] <edmoore> we're taking 5 up
[10:24] <edmoore> spec the weight and give them a base plate saying 'it must fit on here'
[10:25] <jcoxon> sounds great
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[10:26] <edmoore> we'll build a nice pentagonal frame to mount one on each outward facing face
[10:29] <jcoxon> hmmm HASP has been postponed
[10:29] <edmoore> wind again
[10:29] <edmoore> poor buggers
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[10:32] <jcoxon> morning SpikeUK
[10:33] <SpikeUK> Hi jcoxon!
[10:34] <ShellEvil> If I make a aluminium superpressure balloon that goes high enough (30Km) what are the duration limits?
[10:34] <ShellEvil> Leakage and diffusion of course.
[10:35] <ShellEvil> metal fatigue I suppose.
[10:35] <edmoore> would the metal be that fatiqued?
[10:35] <edmoore> fatigued*
[10:35] <edmoore> it's pretty static conditions
[10:35] <ShellEvil> Oh
[10:35] <ShellEvil> I was assuming some pressure variation
[10:35] <ShellEvil> which of course doesn't happen
[10:35] <edmoore> I'd have thought creep in the glue at the seams might get you after a while
[10:36] <ShellEvil> Maybe. -50C'll help lots with that.
[10:36] <edmoore> true yep
[10:36] <edmoore> and ali should have a pretty low diffusion coefficient
[10:37] <edmoore> It sounds like a grand idea, assuming you don't rip at launch!
[10:37] <ShellEvil> I was more thinking about pinholes.
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[10:37] <ShellEvil> And leaks.
[10:37] <edmoore> aye, well I guess they'll be the limiting factor
[10:38] <ShellEvil> The 'easy' solution to launch is just to fill it to superpressure indoors somewhere.
[10:38] <ShellEvil> But that needs rather a lot of gas.
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> use air
[10:39] <ShellEvil> I mean for real
[10:39] <ShellEvil> Not tests - air of course works for tests.
[10:39] <ShellEvil> Even hot air to some degree.
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> well you need to use just enough to get it to ascend at the correct rate
[10:39] <edmoore> a friendly hangar
[10:40] <Laurenceb_> helium that is
[10:40] <ShellEvil> Laurenceb_: yeah - the problem with that is that it's not filled at launch
[10:40] <ShellEvil> Laurenceb_: so it's going to be going crinkle crinkle on the way up.
[10:40] <Laurenceb_> so?
[10:40] <ShellEvil> It's metal
[10:40] <Laurenceb_> the stress is different?
[10:40] <Laurenceb_> ?!
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> are you mad?
[10:41] <ShellEvil> So you get metal fatigue where the creases happen
[10:41] <ShellEvil> Possibly.
[10:41] <ShellEvil> Oh
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> lol
[10:41] <ShellEvil> sorry - you came in in teh middle.
[10:41] <ShellEvil> I was discussing limits on a Al foil balloon.
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> one defect and it will rip
[10:41] <ShellEvil> Yes.
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> take some Al foil and tear it
[10:42] <ShellEvil> I know this.
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> its very easy once you're started
[10:42] <ShellEvil> It's very strong if you don't get an edge though.
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> ShellEvil: mylar
[10:42] <ShellEvil> At least it'll be visible on radar.
[10:42] <ShellEvil> Yeah - I know about mylar.
[10:42] <ShellEvil> I'm just wondering about different stuff.
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> cnes use mylar
[10:43] <ShellEvil> 11um foil is as heavy as 30um or so mylar - which isn't bad in terms of weight.
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> I want to make an MIR balloon
[10:44] <Laurenceb_> but I'm not sure of the design... I was thinking mylar and polythene
[10:45] <Laurenceb_> cnes have used very simple designs with half Al coated half transparent mylar, but its not very effective
[10:45] <Laurenceb_> they just went for that design as they could use existing production equiptment I think
[10:46] <Laurenceb_> I need a database of absorption cross section for different polymers in the longwave IR
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[10:55] <Laurenceb_> http://aic.stanford.edu/jaic/img/jaic39-03-005-ch5fg12.jpg looks good
[10:56] <Laurenceb_> theres some fairly strong absorption around 10um
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[11:05] <Laurenceb_> but I cant find polythene
[11:06] <jcoxon> right i'll bbl - router issues
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[11:09] <Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/m9646986 <- is there a way to compress that code down to one loop?
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[11:20] <Laurenceb_> http://ballon.cnes.fr:8180/html/mir/vehic_gb.htm
[11:24] <mc-> robert1971, are you going to Farnell soon?
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[11:43] <ShellEvil> http://fukung.net/v/6959/lookscool.jpg
[11:43] <ShellEvil> :)
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[12:03] Nick change: edmoore -> edmoore|away
[12:08] <smealum> http://fukung.net/v/2820/undojesus.jpg
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> There has to be a market for signs that unfold and fold on command, to allow for photos, but to minimise baying crowds.
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[12:46] <robert1971> edmoore|away: Do you have mc's email address. I'll get him what he wants from farnell if we can contact him
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[13:40] <edmoore|away> greeting jatkins
[13:40] <edmoore|away> greetings*
[13:40] <jatkins> hi
[13:40] Nick change: edmoore|away -> edmoore
[13:40] <edmoore> all well?
[13:41] <jatkins> yep, you?
[13:41] <edmoore> pretty good.
[13:41] <edmoore> playing with some ideas for nova9
[13:41] <edmoore> we're launching provisionally at the end of the month
[13:42] <jatkins> cool
[13:42] <jatkins> what're the main objectives?
[13:42] <edmoore> that's what we're deciding :)
[13:42] <jatkins> lol
[13:42] <jatkins> cool
[13:44] <jatkins> this too says the logomatic is ttl, so that's good http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Widgets/A%20Portable%20Serial%20Data%20Logger.pdf
[13:44] <jatkins> but I think I screwed up one of the tracks on the pcb yesterday - not sure what to clean it with
[13:44] <jatkins> i.e. get flux off
[13:45] <jatkins> or a tiny bit of solder
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[13:55] <edmoore> jatkins: sorry, passed out on my bed (dad just got back from france with lots of wine). You neededn't worry about excess flux
[13:55] <jatkins> ok
[13:55] <edmoore> but if it bothers you, some meths will work
[13:55] <jatkins> well the board isn't turning on
[13:55] <edmoore> but it's not conductive, so it;s ok
[13:55] <edmoore> oh...
[13:55] <edmoore> are you sure there's not a solder bridge?
[13:55] <edmoore> and what kind of board is it?
[13:56] <ShellEvil> 'no-clean' flux is guaranteed to be OK and non-corrosive, non-conductive even in humid atmospheres for years, not cleaned off.
[13:56] <ShellEvil> Otehr sorts aren't.
[13:56] <jatkins> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/images/products/Logomatic.jpg
[13:56] <jatkins> not sure what a solder bridge is
[13:56] <jatkins> but I think the solders crosses over two tracks
[13:56] <jatkins> solder*
[13:56] <jatkins> so short circuiting it I guess
[13:57] <jatkins> ShellEvil: thx
[13:57] <edmoore> sorry, a solder brifge is just when solder crosses a pair of pads, or tracks, that it shouldn't
[13:57] <jatkins> yeah
[13:57] <edmoore> so it 'bridges' the gap that there is meant to be etween them
[13:57] <jatkins> it's that
[13:57] <edmoore> ok, so as you suggested, a bit of flux should work - our tactic for dealing with bridges is this
[13:58] <edmoore> lots of flux, we use a flux pen
[13:58] <jatkins> ok, thx
[13:58] <edmoore> and solder wick
[13:59] <jatkins> ok
[13:59] <jatkins> brb
[13:59] <edmoore> that is sort of braided very thin fibres of solder, that 'suck up' the solder from the joint when you press it against the joint with a soldering iron
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[14:09] <jatkins> back
[14:13] <edmoore> so yes - solder wick is your friend
[14:13] <edmoore> works much better than solder suckers
[14:13] <jatkins> yeah solder sucks suck
[14:13] <jatkins> I broke one trying to get some off
[14:14] <jatkins> suckers suck*
[14:15] <jatkins> like this: http://tinyurl.com/695n6g ?
[14:15] <edmoore> perfect
[14:15] <edmoore> though we use slightly thinner stuff for surface mount
[14:15] <jatkins> ok
[14:15] <jatkins> well this is through-hole
[14:15] <jatkins> but thx
[14:15] <edmoore> ok perfect then
[14:16] <jatkins> btw can you do smd with a needle-tip?
[14:22] <edmoore> you can do it with most tips
[14:22] <jatkins> ok
[14:23] <jatkins> I need to learn smd eventually..
[14:23] <edmoore> so long as they're reasonably fine
[14:23] <jatkins> sfe have some good tutorials though
[14:23] <jatkins> yeah it's tiny
[14:23] <edmoore> it's not that traicky - a steady hand and a bit of practice. don't fear it :)
[14:23] <jatkins> :)
[14:24] <jatkins> it looks scary when you're having trouble doing through-hole :)
[14:25] <jatkins> this is kindof related, but do you guys ever use headers in payloads when you launch or just solder directly?
[14:26] <jatkins> headers look like they make it much easier because you don't end up messing up the pcb etc.
[14:27] <jatkins> and you only have to solder on one side of the board
[14:29] Nick change: EI5GTB__ -> EI5GTB
[14:29] <edmoore> headers?
[14:29] <jatkins> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=115
[14:32] <edmoore> we use them to attach one pcb to another
[14:32] <edmoore> but basically everything is soldered down to each pcb
[14:32] <jatkins> ok
[14:32] <edmoore> apart from the really expensive bits which have connectors anyway - like the lassen iQ and the telit
[14:32] <jatkins> oh
[14:32] <jatkins> how do you connect the iq to the mcu?
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[14:49] <fuzzylugnuts> edmoore: fergus is going to be back in late september sometime?
[14:50] <edmoore> think so
[14:50] <fuzzylugnuts> ok.
[14:50] <edmoore> jatkins: a serial port
[14:56] <jatkins> db9?
[15:04] <edmoore> db9 is a kind of connector
[15:04] <jatkins> yeah
[15:04] <jatkins> that's what I meant, sorry
[15:04] <edmoore> we use the serial port of the arm chip
[15:04] <edmoore> the UART
[15:04] <jatkins> yeah
[15:04] <jatkins> the connector
[15:05] <edmoore> oh, it has some kind of connector
[15:05] <jatkins> "apart from the really expensive bits which have connectors anyway"
[15:05] <edmoore> a small 8-pin thing
[15:05] <jatkins> ok
[15:05] <jatkins> I've got an iq
[15:05] <jatkins> do you have a link?
[15:05] <edmoore> did you get a connector with it?
[15:05] <jatkins> no
[15:05] <jatkins> well
[15:05] <jatkins> I got the smd mating header
[15:05] <edmoore> mistake :)
[15:05] <edmoore> yes that is the connecotr
[15:05] <edmoore> they're the same thing
[15:05] <jatkins> ok
[15:06] <jatkins> but i'm not soldering it to a pcb
[15:06] <edmoore> you have a socket on the underside of the lassen
[15:06] <jatkins> yeah
[15:06] <edmoore> well you'll have to come up with something then
[15:06] <edmoore> anywthing will do
[15:06] <jatkins> ok
[15:06] <edmoore> a db9 would work well
[15:06] <edmoore> but most things should be ok
[15:06] <jatkins> ok
[15:06] <edmoore> just don't make it too long
[15:06] <jatkins> yeah
[15:06] <edmoore> maybe 30cm tops, shorter if possible
[15:06] <jatkins> db9s can get quite long
[15:07] <jatkins> the original connector I bought for the first gps I was gonna use was like a meter long
[15:07] <edmoore> well if it's shielded, it's ok
[15:07] <edmoore> but I assume you're using an arduino, so you're wanting to get the gps to the serial port of the arduino
[15:08] <jatkins> yeah
[15:08] <edmoore> what I would do is get a 'male' header (to plug into the female heade ron the arduino) and solder that direct to the smd connector you got for the lassen
[15:08] <jatkins> ok
[15:09] <jatkins> btw in the iq's documentation is seems to say you need several pull-up resistors attached to the unused serial port
[15:09] <jatkins> I was thinking it would just be vcc, gnd, tx, rx
[15:09] <jatkins> and the other pins
[15:10] <jatkins> but I'd only need the vcc, gnd, rx
[15:10] <edmoore> that should be all you need, yes
[15:10] <jatkins> ok
[15:10] <edmoore> i'd do the tx too just incase you find some need in the future
[15:10] <jatkins> yeah
[15:10] <jatkins> like I think the default protocol is trimble's tisp
[15:10] <jatkins> maybe not
[15:10] <jatkins> well anyway I'd want nmea
[15:11] <edmoore> i think it's nmea on porta a
[15:11] <jatkins> it's in the manual though
[15:11] <edmoore> and tsip on b
[15:11] <jatkins> probably
[15:11] <jatkins> I haven't had much of a look
[15:11] <edmoore> we use tsip, but we talk to ours a bit more than is necessary to do the basics of a flight
[15:11] <jatkins> ok
[15:11] <jatkins> i just want lon,lat,time,velocity,alt
[15:11] <edmoore> I'd recommend nmea to begin with
[15:11] <edmoore> yeah
[15:11] <jatkins> it's easy to parse
[15:11] <edmoore> nmea is all automatic and gives you all that
[15:12] <jatkins> yeah
[15:12] <jatkins> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/images/products/GPS-EM401.jpg
[15:12] <jatkins> is there a name for the connector in that pic?
[15:12] <jatkins> on the left
[15:12] <edmoore> they are, I think, 1.25mm molex connectors
[15:12] <jatkins> sorry.. wrong pic
[15:12] <jatkins> thx anyway
[15:12] <edmoore> maybe 1.27
[15:12] <edmoore> they're 0.05" anyway
[15:12] <jatkins> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/images/products/00465-03-L.jpg
[15:13] <jatkins> actually they're probably the same
[15:13] <edmoore> you're standard 'molex' connectors have the pins 0.1" apart. that's the width that DIP packages have their pins spaced too - it's prety standard for through-hole parts
[15:13] <edmoore> those are half the spacing
[15:13] <jatkins> ok
[15:13] <jatkins> do you think a molex connector would fit in the iq's socket?
[15:14] <edmoore> often used for surface mount, but don't be too scared of them, they're still very solderable
[15:14] <edmoore> no
[15:14] <jatkins> ok
[15:14] <edmoore> you'd have to get the correct thing
[15:14] <edmoore> try toby.co.uk
[15:14] <jatkins> ty
[15:18] <jatkins> one last qns
[15:18] <jatkins> have you used 1-wire stuff?
[15:18] <edmoore> not personally
[15:18] <jatkins> ok
[15:18] <jatkins> do you know if the 1-wire bus is hardware or just means the mcu etc.?
[15:19] <edmoore> it's a protocol
[15:19] <jatkins> oh good
[15:19] <edmoore> so it's just specificying a sequence of pulses
[15:19] <edmoore> so any mcu should be able to deal with it
[15:19] <jatkins> yeah
[15:19] <jatkins> I've got a ds18b20 thermistor
[15:19] <jatkins> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=245
[15:20] <edmoore> i wouldn't worry about being able to interface it to the arduino
[15:20] <jatkins> ?
[15:20] <edmoore> as in - you should have no problems
[15:21] <jatkins> oh right
[15:21] <jatkins> sorry
[15:21] <edmoore> np :)
[15:21] <jatkins> I'm a bit slow today
[15:21] <jatkins> :D
[15:21] <jatkins> thx for all the help
[15:22] <jatkins> actually ... 1 last last qns
[15:22] <jatkins> are pull-up resistors any special type of resistor?
[15:22] <jatkins> or is it just a circuit?
[15:23] <fuzzylugnuts> they are just a resistor used to tie a pin (usially input) to ground or vcc so it doesn't float
[15:23] <jatkins> ok
[15:23] <jatkins> so any will do?
[15:23] <jatkins> i've got 10 ks
[15:23] <edmoore> perfect
[15:24] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah, they'd be fine
[15:24] <jatkins> great
[15:24] <fuzzylugnuts> even 50k is alright
[15:24] <jatkins> ok
[15:24] <jatkins> thx
[15:24] <fuzzylugnuts> no problem-o
[15:24] <edmoore> 'floating' is where charge builds up and causes a cmos device to read the wrong signal
[15:24] <fuzzylugnuts> for once a question I can answer : 3
[15:24] <edmoore> as mos technology needs basically no current in order to be switched
[15:25] <edmoore> have you every bought something in anti-static foam, jatkins?
[15:25] <edmoore> like a chip of a gps
[15:25] <edmoore> or a *
[15:26] <jatkins> ok
[15:27] <edmoore> anyway, that antistatic packaging foam has resistance, and uses the same principle as pullup/pulldown resisitors - it lets the charge flow through them, but dissipates all the enery as (tiny tiny amounts of) heat
[15:28] <jatkins> anti-static: don't think so
[15:28] <fuzzylugnuts> edmoore: yeah, to create a faraday cage.
[15:29] <jatkins> ok
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[15:35] <jatkins> bbl
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[15:37] <fuzzylugnuts> oh man.. I'm finally going to break down and get an eeepc.
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[16:04] <edmoore> jcoxon: do we know andrew goddard?
[16:04] <jcoxon> ummm i don't think so
[16:04] <jcoxon> but it sort of rings a bell
[16:04] <edmoore> yeah
[16:04] <jcoxon> pourquoi
[16:05] <edmoore> http://personal.strath.ac.uk/andrew.goddard/ballooning.swf
[16:05] <jcoxon> interesting
[16:06] <edmoore> and the name definitely rings a bell
[16:08] <fuzzylugnuts> wow
[16:08] <fuzzylugnuts> this is awesome
[16:08] <gordonjcp> strath, eh?
[16:08] <gordonjcp> local lad...
[16:11] <gordonjcp> hmm
[16:11] <gordonjcp> so I'd need a balloon with about 6m diameter to lift me
[16:12] <fuzzylugnuts> is there a section for payload weight that I'm missing?
[16:17] <fuzzylugnuts> oh I see, you can mess with it.
[16:19] <fuzzylugnuts> Cool. my spreadsheet checks out with this flash program
[16:20] <fuzzylugnuts> below 100,000 ft at least.
[16:22] <fuzzylugnuts> that makes me feel alot more confident with this stuff.
[16:29] <fuzzylugnuts> aawww. Do all the free DDNS services require the {nameIwanted}.dyndns.org ?
[16:33] <gordonjcp> what's the "nameyouwanted"?
[16:34] <fuzzylugnuts> the domain name that I want like www.wanderingcoyote.com
[16:35] <fuzzylugnuts> but it seems like it always has to have .no-ip.org or similar after it
[16:46] <fuzzylugnuts> perhaps this a matter of the reception of cake && the consumption of it as well.
[16:53] <gordonjcp> well that's kind of how dynamic DNS services work...
[16:53] <fuzzylugnuts> awww. ok.
[16:53] <gordonjcp> what you *could* do is register wanderingcoyote.com if it's available
[16:54] <fuzzylugnuts> that was just an example... and I'm on a dynamic IP form the cable company
[16:54] <gordonjcp> and set www.wanderingcoyote.com to be a CNAME for wanderingcoyote.dyndns.com
[16:54] <fuzzylugnuts> Oh
[16:54] <edmoore> fuzzylugnuts: afraid.org
[16:54] <fuzzylugnuts> hmmm
[16:54] <edmoore> also - have you come across the burst1a.xls spreadsheet?
[16:54] <fuzzylugnuts> nope
[16:54] <gordonjcp> fuzzylugnuts: what happens is if you have a domain name you can set up a DNS that will attempt to match any incoming request
[16:55] <edmoore> well that's what we all use to predicts bursts and so on
[16:55] <gordonjcp> fuzzylugnuts: I'm about to set one up
[16:55] <fuzzylugnuts> edmoore: oh, cool, have a link or something?
[16:55] <edmoore> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[16:55] <fuzzylugnuts> gordonjcp: Oh cool. I've never done this before so this help is appreciated
[16:56] <fuzzylugnuts> oh, is this data from kamont?
[16:56] <edmoore> fuzzylugnuts: beneath the table and the blurb
[16:56] <edmoore> yep
[16:56] <fuzzylugnuts> oh, neat
[16:58] <fuzzylugnuts> have you found this sheet to be accurate to what happens IRL?
[16:58] <edmoore> near enough
[16:59] <edmoore> maybe a bit optimistic
[16:59] <fuzzylugnuts> ok
[16:59] <fuzzylugnuts> there is always the atmospheric-rape contribution
[17:00] <edmoore> exactly
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[17:05] <fuzzylugnuts> I ordered the stuff for the hf transmitter yesterday. its going to be on 20m
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[17:19] <fuzzylugnuts> OMG
[17:19] <edmoore> ?
[17:19] <fuzzylugnuts> there is a show on HABs on the Discovery channel
[17:19] <edmoore> what's it called?
[17:19] <edmoore> I kow JP aero were filming for them last week
[17:19] <fuzzylugnuts> dunno, my mom just called and told me it was on
[17:21] <fuzzylugnuts> "Discovery Project Earth" "Oribital Power Plant"
[17:21] <fuzzylugnuts> they had some awesome video onboard the payload
[17:24] <fuzzylugnuts> the balloon popping video is superb
[17:24] <edmoore> any idea who it was?
[17:24] <edmoore> i.e the group
[17:24] <edmoore> eoss or something
[17:24] <edmoore> or jp
[17:25] <fuzzylugnuts> I doubt it was any group like that
[17:25] <fuzzylugnuts> I think it was the Discovery Planet Earth group, they go build stuff and test it..etc.
[17:26] <edmoore> usually they pretend they do anyway :)
[17:26] <edmoore> and get an existing group to do it all
[17:27] <edmoore> based on my experience of discovery channel anyway
[17:27] <fuzzylugnuts> lol thats probably what it was
[17:37] <icez> that's what they did for the shiny clouds episode :P
[17:37] <icez> other people had the idea for a long time, they just had the money to do some tests for it :P
[17:38] <fuzzylugnuts> haha
[17:40] <fuzzylugnuts> the physics guy in the discovery project group is a hoot.
[17:41] <edmoore> I wish I could see this program!
[17:41] <fuzzylugnuts> the balloon stuff is a minor part of it
[17:41] <fuzzylugnuts> but still neat
[18:06] <edmoore> are there any bulgarians about?
[18:16] <jcoxon> back
[18:16] <jcoxon> though i doubt you thought i was away
[18:18] <fuzzylugnuts> now we're sure you're here
[18:19] <jcoxon> haha
[18:22] <fuzzylugnuts> gordonjcp: who do you register domain names with?
[18:24] <fuzzylugnuts> *towlie voice* I'm so high right now, I have no idea whats going on...
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[18:27] <fuzzylugnuts> wow... http://www.plasticsheetingsupply.com/clear-plastic-sheeting-p-29.html
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[18:31] <fuzzylugnuts> it all comes back to sealing techniques
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[18:59] <fuzzylugnuts> ah yeah, feta and katsup and sausage.
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[19:04] <robert1971> evening all
[19:04] <robert1971> Just done a fifth birthday party for Charlie! Knackered
[19:04] <fuzzylugnuts> Heya rob
[19:06] <robert1971> edmoore: Managed to get a cristal clear signal from my beacon last night ~15 miles from the house where the beacon was located. I could drive far enough away to degredate the signal. So I'm really pleased with the new ground plane antenna
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[19:06] <robert1971> fuzzylugnuts: evening sir
[19:07] <fuzzylugnuts> make any contacts on the 817 yet?
[19:09] <robert1971> No I should
[19:10] <robert1971> I'm going to knock up that antenna
[19:10] <robert1971> I'm desparately trying to get this payload launched and then I'm going to spend some time on my radio
[19:11] <jcoxon> evening robert1971
[19:12] <edmoore> robert1971: great news
[19:12] <robert1971> It's a great bit of kit and other than tuning into ATC at Manchester Airport. I havn't really done alot with it. Though I have found you can tune into radio4 which is cool!
[19:12] <edmoore> jcoxon: this week's objective - get a ham license
[19:12] <fuzzylugnuts> robert1971: neat : )
[19:12] <robert1971> If your as old as me it's cool anyway :-P
[19:12] <jcoxon> edmoore, good luck
[19:12] <jcoxon> found a place to take the exam?
[19:13] <robert1971> edmoore: are you going to sit the exam at a local college
[19:13] <edmoore> robert1971: what module is it that you got?
[19:13] <edmoore> robert1971: I have to find a place to sit it
[19:13] <SpikeUK> edmoore - good luck!
[19:13] <edmoore> I know there are local laces though
[19:13] <jcoxon> edmoore, i'm doing my course on teh 21st and the 5th
[19:13] <robert1971> module? Transmiter or radio?
[19:13] <edmoore> my old physics teacher was a ham and I know a few people he sent off to take their test. I will ask him
[19:14] <edmoore> robert1971: the lovely transceiver
[19:14] <robert1971> FT-817
[19:14] <fuzzylugnuts> < 3 that radio http://68.34.212.42/arches_spring/IMG_0023_1.JPG
[19:15] <robert1971> edmoore: I'm afraid there are none of those in the dungeon :)
[19:15] <edmoore> :p
[19:15] <edmoore> christmas is coming...
[19:16] <fuzzylugnuts> I have an ft-857D too, its also spoogetastic.
[19:18] <jcoxon> robert1971, so whats the plan again about a potential launch?
[19:20] <robert1971> The beacon launch?
[19:20] <robert1971> I nearly did one tonight!
[19:20] <jcoxon> lol
[19:21] <robert1971> Is so still outside it would have ben a perfect eveing if it wasn't for the birthday.
[19:21] <robert1971> I would really like to get the gps taking to the avr before sending the beacon up.
[19:22] <edmoore> who's birthday?
[19:22] <robert1971> I'm really please with the new design GP antenna. 2 radials and the active
[19:22] <robert1971> jcoxon: did edmoore send you on a copy of that book
[19:22] <edmoore> robert1971: I didn't
[19:22] <edmoore> my seive brainedness
[19:23] <robert1971> You'll have to nudge him sometime
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[19:23] <robert1971> Charlie, on of the kids
[19:23] <robert1971> one*
[19:24] <edmoore> just nudged him
[19:24] <edmoore> he didn't budge
[19:24] <edmoore> happy b-day charlie
[19:25] <robert1971> edmoore: If I want my avr to talk to the PC I just need a max232 or is there some additional circuitry required?
[19:25] <edmoore> there are more high-tech ways
[19:25] <edmoore> there are chips from ftdi which are usb-serial converotrs
[19:26] <robert1971> I'm thinking simplest here :)
[19:26] <edmoore> same effort as the max232 - i.e. 'a chip' - but with fewer external components, and plugs into usb. they provide a multi-platform driver and it shows up as a com port on the pc
[19:26] <robert1971> and works under linux I'm sure I have seen that
[19:26] <edmoore> this is simpler I think - it's definitely faster-cheaper-newer-better type stuff
[19:27] <edmoore> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=650
[19:28] <robert1971> Ok i'm up for it. Though I do like my rs232 stuff. It's more from my age of BBS systems and 300 baud modems. Taking an hour to download a picture.
[19:28] <jcoxon> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=718
[19:28] <edmoore> well, if you want to run with it, then yep, it's the max232 chip
[19:28] <robert1971> Must get you all into giving farnell references
[19:29] <edmoore> and the associated external components - you'll see the model circuit in the datasheet for it
[19:29] <robert1971> I have no serial on my asus
[19:29] <robert1971> There a dying breed
[19:29] <edmoore> cool, well i recommend ftdi then
[19:29] <robert1971> they're*
[19:29] <edmoore> arduinos (very simple) use the ftdi chips
[19:30] <robert1971> Thanks jc
[19:31] <robert1971> Can you get those boards in the uk?
[19:31] <edmoore> oh yeah breakout board
[19:31] <edmoore> robert1971: try robosavvy.org
[19:31] <edmoore> they carry lots of SF stuff
[19:32] <fuzzylugnuts> http://linxtechnologies.com/Products/Interface-Modules/QS-Series-USB-Module/
[19:32] <fuzzylugnuts> that usb>serial chip is really nice.
[19:33] <edmoore> http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/37/products_id/433
[19:33] <edmoore> robert1971: ^
[19:33] <robert1971> Breakout board is cool 'cus most of the testing will be down here
[19:33] <robert1971> Like how do you know if your reading the gps data properly
[19:35] <robert1971> Funny how the US GB exchange rate is 1:1
[19:35] <edmoore> tragic
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[19:41] <jiffe88> how is it 1:1 ?
[19:44] <robert1971> Like books and alot of electronic seems to be ay $10 = £10gb when you buy in the uk
[19:45] <jiffe88> hmm, wonder why they would do that
[19:46] <robert1971> I think it's commonly called rip off britain
[19:46] <robert1971> Lots of nice toys on robosavvy
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[19:48] <edmoore> robosavvy is quite expensive though generally
[19:48] <edmoore> but they do have some useful bits.
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[19:49] <mc-> robert1971, are you going past Farnell tomorrow?
[19:49] <robert1971> BTW I got an iQ ordered this morning. Going to link it with the Atmega8L in v2 beacon
[19:50] <robert1971> Still need to complete v1 beacon though :)
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[19:50] <edmoore> robert1971: beacon2 sounds like it's shaping up very nicely
[19:53] <robert1971> Componets should be gathered together by next w/e. Need to send it up to jc to knock together in 15mins
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[19:56] <robert1971> mc-: You still want some components from farnell?
[19:56] <mc-> yes, please...I sent you an email. Can paypal you.
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[19:57] <robert1971> Opps just missed your last. Yep sure what would you like
[19:57] <robert1971> rharrison [email at sign] hgf.com
[19:58] <mc-> 2 of 732795 please. 3 pounds each + VAT
[19:59] <robert1971> OK pay via pp when you get the stuff. I'll do free p&p through work
[19:59] Nick change: fuzzylugnut1 -> fuzzylugnuts
[19:59] <mc-> is that your pp address above?
[20:00] <robert1971> I'll collect lunch time and send in the evening post. Should be with you tuesday. Can you email me the farnell link
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[20:00] <robert1971> Yep but just pay when you get them
[20:00] <robert1971> The email is to remind me to place the order
[20:01] <edmoore> bbiab
[20:01] <robert1971> Right I'm going to spend the evening with the wife.
[20:01] <mc-> thanks alot.
[20:01] <mc-> email gone out with Farnell order code
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[20:02] <robert1971> JC Lets talk about lauch of beacons. I'm fairly flexable, do you fancy being there or U not fussed?
[20:02] <robert1971> mc-: Great I'll keep you informed tomorrow
[20:04] <jcoxon> robert1971, sadly tis supper time for me
[20:04] <jcoxon> i'll email you
[20:05] <robert1971> bb much later; 10:30 BST :-)
[20:05] <robert1971> 22:30 BST even
[20:07] <edmoore> snap
[20:08] <gordonjcp> fuzzylugnuts: 123-reg usually
[20:09] <fuzzylugnuts> ah, ok
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[20:36] <edmoore> hi rocketboy
[20:36] <rocketboy> hi edmoore
[20:36] <rocketboy> did you get my email?
[20:36] <edmoore> the first one, yep - did you get my reply?
[20:37] <rocketboy> Humm which one - i replied about an hour ago?
[20:37] <rocketboy> my laptop is off the air at the mo
[20:38] <rocketboy> wifi problems - I know its a hardware issue - but they make you re-load it from scratch before they will take it back
[20:39] <edmoore> the one about paying the extra for shipping on the 2kg
[20:39] <rocketboy> I have spent a load of time backing it up and re-loading software etc
[20:39] <rocketboy> grr
[20:39] <edmoore> sounds super-helpful of them
[20:39] <edmoore> iain's laptop cuts off wifi after 65536 packets
[20:40] <rocketboy> yeah - I,m not happy with currys/HP at the mo
[20:40] <rocketboy> thats not may packets
[20:40] <rocketboy> may = many
[20:41] <edmoore> it's 2^16 packets, amusingly
[20:41] <edmoore> can't handle overflows
[20:42] <rocketboy> oh yeah - powers of 2 are burnt into my mind - 2 4 8 16 .. 1024 2048 ... 65536 ..
[20:53] <rocketboy> ugggggggg installing more updates grrrrr
[21:00] <jnd> windows?
[21:04] <rocketboy> yeah - grrrrrrrrrrrr
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[22:07] <jnd> what is britain like?
[22:08] <fuzzylugnuts> wet, cold, and all you can find to eat is fish n chips and curry
[22:08] <fuzzylugnuts> ; P
[22:08] <fuzzylugnuts> thats what my buddy tells me at least, but I'm a yank ;P
[22:09] <jnd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjfsXgdzJs
[22:09] <jnd> :p
[22:09] <fuzzylugnuts> I <3 bill bailey
[22:10] <jnd> I <3 manny
[22:10] <fuzzylugnuts> I wish they did more episodes of black books
[22:10] <fuzzylugnuts> now bring me my lolly....
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[22:37] <edmoore> I am seeing bill baily next month
[22:37] <edmoore> live in london
[22:38] <fuzzylugnuts> win!
[22:41] <edmoore> and the uk is lovely :)
[22:41] <edmoore> was sunbathing outside today with a glass of fizz and a plate of cold meats and cheese
[22:41] <edmoore> and all the weekend supplements
[22:41] <edmoore> score.
[22:41] <fuzzylugnuts> mmm, cheese.
[22:42] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm about to order some gyro pizza
[22:43] <edmoore> some what pizza?
[22:43] <fuzzylugnuts> gryo, you know, that greek baby lamb meat, feta, onions, and tomatos
[22:44] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm off to get it, bbl
[22:44] <natrium42> damn you
[22:44] <natrium42> stop making us hungry
[22:44] <fuzzylugnuts> : }
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[22:46] <edmoore> I think it's called donner over here
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[23:17] <fuzzylugnuts> donner?
[23:17] <edmoore> donna
[23:17] <edmoore> donner
[23:17] <edmoore> one of them
[23:17] <fuzzylugnuts> babby lamb meat?
[23:17] <fuzzylugnuts> er
[23:17] <fuzzylugnuts> *baby
[23:17] <edmoore> ha no, donner is a mix of.... bits
[23:18] <fuzzylugnuts> oooh, one of those
[23:18] <fuzzylugnuts> my Norcal kits came
[23:19] <natrium42> edmoore, rat meat?
[23:19] <edmoore> well, the slurry on the abertoire floor
[23:19] <edmoore> gets swept up into bags
[23:20] <edmoore> and ground up
[23:20] <fuzzylugnuts> yummeh
[23:20] <natrium42> eww
[23:45] <edmoore> from my royal aeronautical society magazine monthly thing 'AeroSekur is also working on a novel Mars landing bag system that is designed, by using microsensors, to ensure that any ExoMars lander arrives safely in one piece and the right side up"
[23:45] <edmoore> er, no.....
[23:45] <edmoore> they are being told how to put their pants on the right way round, because even that they find too difficult.
[23:45] <edmoore> gah, I won't rant.
[23:46] <fuzzylugnuts> heeeee
[23:51] <jcoxon> night all
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[00:00] --- Mon Sep 15 2008