highaltitude.log.20080909

[00:00] RocketBoyv1 (n=grunge@217.47.75.27) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[00:06] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[00:17] <Laurenceb_> gtg
[00:17] Laurenceb_ (n=Laurence@host86-133-69-206.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) left irc:
[00:20] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[00:28] <ShellEvil> First tests very promising.
[00:30] <ShellEvil> Threads of hotmelt (~0.2mm dia) placed on 20um foil, the sandwitch heated with a rod rolled over it heated to maybe 130C. In peel the strength is quite high - maybe 50Kg/m
[00:30] <ShellEvil> In a lap joint, it should very easily exceed the burst pressure.
[01:03] <ShellEvil> On inspection, about 2/3 only bonded - due apparantly to low heat. so 80kg/m
[01:23] <natrium42> but how does it handle low temperature?
[01:26] <SpeedEvil> Don't know.
[01:27] <SpeedEvil> However, it's already 50C below its freezing point, and in a lap joint the strain would be on the order of a couple of magnitudes less.
[01:27] <SpeedEvil> Plan to test in freezer when it gets to -30
[01:55] <SpeedEvil> Worst case, thermoset epoxy isn't that expensive.
[02:59] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) joined #highaltitude.
[03:03] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) left irc: Client Quit
[03:12] EI5GTB__ (n=Paul@213-202-166-186.bas503.dsl.esat.net) joined #highaltitude.
[03:16] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) joined #highaltitude.
[03:30] Ei5GTB_ (n=Paul@78.16.75.126) left irc: Connection timed out
[04:34] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[04:35] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[04:40] Andreas__ (n=Ebola@149.254.192.192) joined #highaltitude.
[04:41] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: Nick collision from services.
[04:41] Nick change: Andreas__ -> Ebola
[05:38] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[06:37] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: ""Lulz I have an eye exam. Someone else is going to take over the day shift, but he'll probably come later than I would have d
[07:51] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-156-168-2.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[07:55] robert1971 (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) joined #highaltitude.
[07:58] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:13] <SpeedEvil> morniung
[08:20] <jcoxon> hey SpeedEvil
[08:23] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) left irc: "Lost terminal"
[08:31] rrison (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:31] Nick change: rrison -> rharrison
[08:31] <rharrison> Moring jcoxon
[08:32] <rharrison> Just realised i'm logged in at home :)
[08:32] <jcoxon> :-[
[08:32] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:32] <rharrison> You nearly there with truetty
[08:32] <jcoxon> hmmm
[08:33] <jcoxon> i worry about the speed
[08:33] <jcoxon> it was a lot better at decoding natively then in the browser
[08:33] <rharrison> Ah we have a problem there then
[08:33] <jcoxon> also if you closed the browser it closed
[08:33] <rharrison> Humm
[08:33] <jcoxon> i think vnc is the way forward
[08:33] <jcoxon> have it all running
[08:33] <rharrison> Yep :)
[08:33] <jcoxon> then vnc and jsut check it
[08:33] <jcoxon> won't interfere
[08:34] <rharrison> We get to have a look around your computer then :)
[08:34] <jcoxon> in the future we can use rtty on linux with fergus' changes
[08:34] <jcoxon> oh don't worry i'll set up another user...
[08:34] <rharrison> BTW what do you do for the antenna. Do you have it outside on a tripod?
[08:35] <jcoxon> no i use a whip
[08:35] <jcoxon> haven't got round to getting a yagi/tripod
[08:35] <jcoxon> also i'd have to point it
[08:36] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[08:36] <rharrison> That's true. Do you just shove the whip outside
[08:37] robert1971 (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[08:37] <rharrison> Weird
[08:37] <jcoxon> nah i put it by the window
[08:38] <rharrison> that surprised me I thought I was going to have to go up on the roof and put up a rotating yagi to track
[08:38] <jcoxon> nah
[08:39] <jcoxon> it helps
[08:39] <jcoxon> but
[08:39] <jcoxon> you don't necessarily need it
[08:39] <rharrison> I'll just shove a decent 70cm and 2m dipole up there and see what I get
[08:39] <jcoxon> but then this is a 'secondary' station
[08:39] <rharrison> Yagi for beacon location and data
[08:40] <jcoxon> for a chase you need at least one yagi to get the best signal but also to use for triangulation
[08:41] <rharrison> I'm going to make a morse transmitter at the w/e and send it up on a small ballon to test the signals. Not sure if I'll chase it or not. Just want to see how easy it is to track morese
[08:41] <gordonjcp> depending on the yagi, the beam might be quite broad
[08:42] <gordonjcp> the K5OE design I keep ranting on about is quite wide, but also has a large back lobe
[08:42] <gordonjcp> when you want to be more accurate you use the side nulls ;-)
[08:42] <jcoxon> gordonjcp, wide is good methinks
[08:42] <gordonjcp> yup
[08:42] <jcoxon> rharrison, just a beacon?
[08:43] <gordonjcp> incidentally I picked up AO-51 absolutely 5/9 last night, when it was about 15 degrees above the horizon
[08:43] <gordonjcp> to get the optimum signal it needed aimed fairly accurately
[08:43] <jcoxon> good work
[08:44] <rharrison> gordonjcp: I'm hoping to order a 9 element one off radioworld http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/20909-tonna-70cm-440mhz-yagi-p-2321.html?osCsid=4224b92a9372492878816b3494a6e381
[08:45] <rharrison> jcoxon: Yep sending out a bit of morse code not sure what yet. I'm going to knock it up with a atmega8 chip on there so plenty of space for a nice long message. You up for having a go at listening for the signals?
[08:46] <jcoxon> i shall listen out
[08:47] <jcoxon> however i'll be in london so doubt i'll get anything
[08:47] <rharrison> I need to knock up the TX yet so i'll let you know the launch time 24hrs before hand. Need to use a bit of that helium in the garage :)
[08:50] <jcoxon> okay
[08:51] <gordonjcp> rharrison: 9 element will have good gain, but it will need aimed very accurately
[08:52] <gordonjcp> rharrison: http://members.aol.com/k5oejerry/handi-tenna.htm
[08:52] <gordonjcp> ^ that'll take a couple of hours to build
[09:05] <rharrison> gordonjcp: Thanks for that link. Looks like I won't be seeing the wife and kids this w/e
[09:12] <rharrison> gordonjcp: Bit new to this but I'm guessing you connect the core of the coax to the driven element? Not sure where to stick the shielding
[09:12] <rharrison> Reflector at a guess
[09:38] <gordonjcp> nope
[09:38] <gordonjcp> you connect the coax across the ends of the driven element
[09:38] <gordonjcp> rharrison: antennas are funny things
[09:40] Action: SpeedEvil gets started on a proper heat-sealer for foil + glue.
[09:43] <gordonjcp> rharrison: basically, something that looks like a dead short can have a surprisingly high impedance at RF
[09:44] <gordonjcp> also, because the frequencies involved are so high, the wavelengths are quite short so transformers can be very small
[09:44] <SpeedEvil> Antennas are basically transformers with the secondary being the world.
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> (sort-of)
[09:45] <gordonjcp> in this case the folded dipole acts as a transformer step the 25 ohm characteristic impedance of a dipole up to 100 ohms, but the proximity of the reflector transforms it back down to 50 ohms
[09:45] <gordonjcp> for receiving it's massively non-critical
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> For transmitting low powers it's typically also not very critical.
[09:46] <gordonjcp> yup
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> only once you get up to powers where stuff can be damaged does it get important.
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> Or if you need the last factor of 2 in range
[09:46] <gordonjcp> a good antenna with a not brilliant SWR will often be better than a crap perfectly-tuned antenna
[10:03] <rharrison> Ok I think I'm there will knock up bits and test
[10:06] <rharrison> gordonjcp: Thanks for the imput on that. I'm going to find a site with beginners info on antennae (yagi's in particular)
[10:06] <gordonjcp> I made a bending jig for shaping the DE - once I get a bit better at it then I'll start making up some antenna kits
[10:06] <gordonjcp> the good thing about a folded dipole for portable applications is that it's mechanically very strong
[10:11] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:11] <rharrison> moring ed
[10:14] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-156-168-2.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[10:15] rharrison (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) left #highaltitude.
[10:15] rharrison (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:18] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[10:22] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Foil balloons - Al not SS - glued with hotmelt look actually plausible. I'm going to try a teeny one (4m^3 surface area) tonight.
[10:27] <gordonjcp> SpeedEvil: what kind of foil, like cooking foil Al foil?
[10:27] <gordonjcp> or thinner?
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> Cooking foil.
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> You can get commercial foil down to 11 microns cheap
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> 600mm*45m IIRC 7 quid.
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> And that's 'only' 30g/square meter.
[10:30] <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, this does mean quite large balloons to get to altitudes comparable with latex.
[10:30] <SpeedEvil> And deployment remains a question.
[10:31] <SpeedEvil> UV stability is pretty good though :)
[10:38] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[10:39] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[10:42] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-156-168-2.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:42] <jcoxon> rharrison, apologies for having to disappear
[10:56] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-156-168-2.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[11:34] wickerwaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[11:50] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[11:51] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:34] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[13:07] phatmonkey (n=ben@81.2.121.150) joined #highaltitude.
[13:12] phatmonkey (n=ben@81.2.121.150) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[13:13] phatmonkey (n=ben@scooby.firshman.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[14:42] <rharrison> natrium42: Ping
[15:20] phatmonke (n=ben@scooby.firshman.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[15:33] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[15:46] <rharrison> Hi edmoore
[15:46] <edmoore> hi rob
[15:47] <edmoore> I just figured out why the italian data input was bullshit
[15:47] <rharrison> Just spke with the CAA. Need to send an email through and provided Manch. and Leeds Brad. airports are happy I get the go ahead
[15:47] <edmoore> cool. that you got someone on the phone is good
[15:47] <rharrison> I'm going to put down a couple of alternatives
[15:49] <rharrison> Got my gps tracking software working today going to do a test run on the way home to simulate a chase car
[15:51] <rharrison> Going to set the updates to 5 seconds initially
[15:55] <rharrison> edmoore: What was up with the Italian data. They're the ones who knacked your sims
[16:02] <edmoore> sorry was away
[16:02] <edmoore> ok
[16:03] <rharrison> So tell me about the itallian data
[16:03] <edmoore> so where there should have been one large dispersion of possible landing sites for a given place (i.e. lots of dots in the middle, becoming more sparse as you move out) there were instead little clumps of dispersion ellipses
[16:03] <edmoore> http://planetary.org/blog/article/00001425/
[16:04] <edmoore> quick overview of ellipses - but basically you run thousands of simulations, randomizing a few parameters each time (wind speed, parachute drag, whatever. about 30 in total) and you end up with these spreads of possible sites
[16:05] <edmoore> so where we expected a spread, we instead had little clumps here and there
[16:05] <edmoore> so went back to the input data they gave us
[16:05] <edmoore> and put all the entry points into ascending order
[16:05] <edmoore> and noticed that there was a gap of about 0.57 degrees of latitude/longtitude between each one
[16:06] <rharrison> And that represents which cockup
[16:06] <edmoore> puzzled, I looked at some of the other data - the angle relative to vertical that it enters at, and put them into order, and noticed the same thing
[16:06] <edmoore> well 0.57 is a bit odd
[16:06] <rharrison> the 0.57 must be indicative
[16:06] <edmoore> until I realised that it was 0.01 radians
[16:06] Action: rharrison thinks 2(pi)r
[16:07] <edmoore> 0.57*(pi/180) = 0.0099
[16:07] <edmoore> so the gits have done all the entry calculations at their end in radians and rounded them off to 0.01 radians, then converted to degrees and sent it to us
[16:08] <rharrison> So one var has been shifed by 0.0 rad to give you the clusters
[16:08] <rharrison> 0.01
[16:08] <edmoore> and 0.01 radis is waaaaay to much rounding. so we basically have a grid of possible landing dispersions instead of one large landing dispersion
[16:08] <edmoore> a 0.57 degree grid
[16:08] <rharrison> Zee wankers!
[16:09] <edmoore> and all this because the refused to give us a landing position and a covarience
[16:09] <rharrison> Excuse my french or should i say italian
[16:09] <rharrison> they*
[16:10] <rharrison> Well at least you managed to figure out the problem.
[16:11] <rharrison> Has some one mentioned it to the Italian guys yet?
[16:15] <edmoore> oh it'll come up
[16:15] <edmoore> but i should probably leave it at that on a logged channel!
[16:17] <edmoore> anyhooo, all finished now
[16:17] <edmoore> went to my old school today. trying to get some time on the cnc router
[16:28] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-153-216-221.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:38] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[16:39] <rharrison> afternoon JC
[16:40] <rharrison> edmoore: I'm going to send a morse transmitter up at the w/e. Not sure if I'm going to chase and locate but I want to see how good the signals are.
[16:41] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Connection timed out
[16:41] <edmoore> it'll be good practice!
[16:43] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[16:43] <jcoxon> rharrison, i shall listen out
[16:44] <rharrison> I'm going to shove an atmega8 on a board and program some morse into it to send out. Thinking it might be fun to up a couple of milliwatts http://uk.farnell.com/1348823/electrical-circuit-protection/product.us0?sku=radiometrix-tx2h-433-64
[16:44] <jcoxon> hmmmmm
[16:44] <jcoxon> 25mW?
[16:45] <rharrison> Just a quicky on avr programing do i need to do anything other than power and conned pins to ISP. I cont need any capasitors in there or anything to connect the ISP.
[16:45] <rharrison> I can stick with 10
[16:46] <jcoxon> the module you already have?
[16:46] <jcoxon> as also to be even more annoying 433.92 isn't strictly allowed methinks
[16:47] <jcoxon> not that anyone would notice :-p
[16:47] <rharrison> aww
[16:47] <rharrison> That's what I'm thinking. It's quite quiet out there.
[16:47] <rharrison> We'll at least up here it is. I guess london may be more noisy on the RF
[16:48] <jcoxon> its pretty good
[16:48] <rharrison> 20mw might give you a fighting chance in london
[16:48] <jcoxon> for morse there are other modules (as you dont' need the varying voltage feature of the radimetrix)
[16:48] <jcoxon> rharrison, stick to 10mW if you can or it isn't a good test
[16:48] <rharrison> True
[16:49] <jcoxon> and if ballooning becomes more popular then we need to show that we stick to the rules
[16:50] <rharrison> I had better stick to the NTX2-434.650-10 as that is what i'm likely to send up.
[16:52] <jcoxon> i'll be listening out
[16:54] <edmoore> jcoxon heard nova 7 from central london whe
[16:55] <edmoore> with a whip antenna
[16:55] <edmoore> when it was up by nottingham
[16:55] <edmoore> 10mW
[16:55] <rharrison> I'm going to use 1/4 whip on the transmitter. I guess this is what you guys do
[16:56] <rharrison> I'll have to encode a message for you guys and see if you can pick it up
[16:57] <edmoore> rharrison: you want a ground plane
[16:57] <edmoore> don't just have a whip on the tx
[16:57] <edmoore> you want a ground plane monopole
[16:58] <jcoxon> rharrison, http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/communication:piii_experience
[16:58] <jcoxon> little diagram
[16:58] <jcoxon> rharrison, also how about have it encode a message and then say a loop count
[16:58] <jcoxon> just so that some of the message changes
[16:59] <jcoxon> so "ICARUS 745"
[16:59] <jcoxon> ICARUS 746
[16:59] <jcoxon> etc
[17:00] <edmoore> rharrison: that arrangement (4 grounded wires and an active wire, all orthogonal) is what we have always used
[17:05] <rharrison> Interesting. Is that how the whip works. Just a straight cable 1/4 of 70cm = 17.5cm
[17:05] <edmoore> yep
[17:05] <rharrison> Can you use 1/2 and indeed 70cm as well?
[17:06] <rharrison> Is the 1/4 important?
[17:07] <rharrison> The gound wires are connected to the coax I guess and the centre one to the pin?
[17:07] <gordonjcp> rharrison: yes, 1/4 is important
[17:08] <gordonjcp> and also it's not literally 1/4 of a wavelength because the velocity factor comes into play
[17:09] <rharrison> gordonjcp: 16.5cm comes to mind for some reason
[17:10] <gordonjcp> ye
[17:10] <gordonjcp> about that
[17:10] <rharrison> Is there any way of getting it right? Callibration etc... Preferably not too complex
[17:11] <gordonjcp> poke around on various sites for a good 1/4 wave whip design
[17:12] <edmoore> velocity factor for antennas is typically 0.95
[17:13] <edmoore> i read in a book in the engineering library once
[17:13] <edmoore> 16.625cm
[17:16] Shanuson (n=Peter@p54A97FF7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:25] <natrium42> rharrison, you were looking for me?
[17:28] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) joined #highaltitude.
[17:29] <rharrison> Oh yep I'v got my c program parsing nema to tracker sentances. I'm going to test it on the way home tonight
[17:29] rharrison (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) left irc: Nick collision from services.
[17:29] robert1971 (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:29] <robert1971> weird?
[17:29] <robert1971> nmea *
[17:30] <natrium42> so we can track you driving home?
[17:30] <natrium42> :)
[17:31] <robert1971> That's the theory. I'm going to try 5 second logging and see how it performs. Will stop at farnells on way home.
[17:32] <robert1971> jcoxon, gordonjcp, edmoore does the wire thickness matter other than it needs to be stiff. If it does I'm going to buy a book an antennas cos' i'm in too deep!
[17:32] <edmoore> not really
[17:33] <edmoore> but keep it thinish
[17:33] <robert1971> Good answer
[17:33] <edmoore> and try and get the stiffness in some method other than the wires
[17:33] <robert1971> Any flavour of metal required. Copper
[17:33] <edmoore> elastic > stiff
[17:33] <robert1971> Insulated I see from the dig
[17:33] <edmoore> copper is good
[17:34] <robert1971> diagram
[17:34] <edmoore> i think none insulated would probably actually be better if you were splitting hairs
[17:34] <edmoore> well, maybe have normal loose wire
[17:34] <edmoore> but embed it in some pip insulator
[17:34] <edmoore> so it has some complience when it lands on someone's head
[17:35] <edmoore> but will alwas spring back to the right shape
[17:35] <edmoore> rather than making the antenna array out of brazed brass 2mm rods
[17:35] <robert1971> ok I can go with that. Stiff'ish copper wire
[17:36] <edmoore> bad stuff happens when you do that
[17:38] <robert1971> What about some of that enammeled copper wire I see so much of in maplins
[17:38] <gordonjcp> that would work
[17:38] <edmoore> well, it will probably work just as well as insulated or uninsulated copper wire
[17:38] <edmoore> uninsulated would be best, but the insulation keeps the strands together
[17:39] <edmoore> so just bog standard copper wire will be fine
[17:39] <robert1971> I have a load of twin and earth at home for lighting circuits :)
[17:39] <edmoore> it'd work! one core of it anyway
[17:41] <robert1971> I can make the gound plane out of the same stuff I assume
[17:42] <robert1971> God I thought it was going to be easy, just screw in 1/4 inch whip and forget :)
[17:42] <gordonjcp> that's basically it..
[17:44] <edmoore> well the ground plane helps direct more power in a useful direction
[17:45] <edmoore> it's not necessary. But it will increase your range
[17:45] <robert1971> Range is what we need
[17:46] <robert1971> And to top it off the g-plane needs to be insulated from the middle bit that sticks out
[17:48] <edmoore> yes - the g-plane is rf ground
[17:49] <edmoore> the antenna is rfout
[17:49] <edmoore> so it needs to be connected to rf-ground, not just 'nothing'
[17:52] <robert1971> I'm going to be leaving in 5 mins checking the tracker out with the gps and gprs internet link
[17:55] <jcoxon> bbl
[17:55] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-153-216-221.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[17:59] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] <ShellEvil> On antennas.
[18:03] <ShellEvil> Are there any low-frequency antennas that benefit from _massive_ ends?
[18:04] <ShellEvil> Like - for example - foil balloons.
[18:05] <gordonjcp> 1/4 wave...
[18:05] <gordonjcp> think about it, how many are mounted on vehicles
[18:06] <Hiena> Well, at low frequencies, usually even the big ballons is just a little dipoles.
[18:06] <ShellEvil> I suppose.
[18:11] <robert1971> If anyones interested i'm going to be testing the gpstracker code using natrium42 tracker on http://www.robertharrison.org/tracker/
[18:11] robert1971 (n=rharriso@gateway.hgf.com) left irc:
[18:16] <Hiena> Hmmm....Seems like today testfight was an EPIC failure.
[18:16] <natrium42> what did you fly and what happened?
[18:16] <Hiena> Wireless router.
[18:17] <Hiena> Seems like have to restructure the whole communication protocol and others. Also need a better antennas.
[18:18] <Hiena> Wery hard to keeping the things in air, if you have only 60m radius.
[18:19] <ShellEvil> Was there fire?
[18:19] <ShellEvil> Explosions?
[18:19] <ShellEvil> The lamentation of their insurance adjusters?
[18:20] <natrium42> looks like robert's stuff is working
[18:20] <Hiena> On the upper hand, the new battery pack could support the router for about one hour, and hooking up a GPS mouse to the camera's audio channel makes easyer to finding the remains.
[18:21] <ShellEvil> what's this?
[18:21] <ShellEvil> something UAVy?
[18:22] <Hiena> ShellEvil, since i had several checks from the cops the last few months, the most dangerous chemical in my house is the paint thinner.
[18:23] <Hiena> ShellEvil, yup. It's an airborn testbed system for aerodynamical studies.
[18:24] <ShellEvil> Well - li-po can explode.
[18:24] <Hiena> I never use li-po.
[18:24] <ShellEvil> I've got a prototype of a 80cm agile dish pointer.
[18:27] <Hiena> Currently, i'm using the vanilla short antennas.
[18:28] <Hiena> Maybe, i'll upgrade to the flat reflex, but at first i have a proof of the new protocol.
[18:29] <Hiena> The closed-loop communication total failure. Have to make the communication interface more sturdy.
[18:33] <Hiena> But the most important is the automatic foam cutter. The university want to buy a series of modells for they studies, and they wants to waste a great amount for the flying wing kits. And they don't understand how pointles to use a flying-wing for a autonomous control tests.
[18:35] wickerwaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:35] <ShellEvil> Why pointless?
[18:35] <ShellEvil> In that it adds difficulty?
[18:42] phatmonke (n=ben@scooby.firshman.co.uk) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[18:42] phatmonkey (n=ben@scooby.firshman.co.uk) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[18:48] <natrium42> looks like robert is home
[18:48] <natrium42> lol
[18:50] <natrium42> and he's going back?
[18:51] <natrium42> oh, he said he had to go to some store
[18:56] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-153-216-221.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:58] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude.
[19:10] <edmoore> aerocon is such a treasure trove
[19:12] <Hiena> ShellEvil, because, when you are on the field, tuning the controll loops in the software, the last thing what you need an aerodynamically unstable plane.
[19:15] <Hiena> natrium42, did you put a logger to robert?
[19:16] <natrium42> Hiena, i put it up on ukhas wiki
[19:16] <natrium42> feel free to use it
[19:17] <Hiena> Nice.
[19:17] <Hiena> I'll put up some page for my nexr router test, and you could track my run.
[19:18] <natrium42> cool
[19:19] <Hiena> I'll hook up the GPS and one router to the laptop, and sending back the log to the server.
[19:19] <jcoxon> ooo rharissons tracker worked well
[19:19] <natrium42> yah, i was watching it live
[19:19] <natrium42> part of the time
[19:31] <ShellEvil> hei: a
[19:31] <ShellEvil> Hiena: unless of course the aim is that.
[19:39] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-153-216-221.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[19:50] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[19:52] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[20:13] SpikeUK (n=user@host86-139-183-57.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:14] <SpikeUK> Evening!
[20:15] <ShellEvil> YEMV.
[20:15] <gordonjcp> hello
[20:16] <SpikeUK> Evening gents - just trying IRC via my Asus Eee
[20:21] RocketBoyv1 (n=grunge@217.47.75.27) joined #highaltitude.
[20:25] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Halt! Hammerzeit!=-"
[20:26] <edmoore> SpikeUK: can confirm it's working
[20:27] <SpikeUK> Hi edmoore - ta for that!
[20:27] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[20:27] <robert1971> Evening all
[20:27] <edmoore> everyone has eees
[20:28] <robert1971> natrium42: edmoore: That gpstracker software worked well.
[20:28] <edmoore> yes, very convincing
[20:28] <robert1971> natrium42: Tracker is cool
[20:31] <SpikeUK> ? Tracker?
[20:32] <robert1971> I'm going to put the gpstrack software up on the wiki it parses nema data into natrium42's tracker
[20:32] <robert1971> format
[20:33] <robert1971> SpikeUK: I have been playing with natrium42's tracker tonight on the way home http://www.robertharrison.org/tracker if you want to have a look
[20:35] <robert1971> I couldn't type and write all at the same time. BTW I have been transmitting from my beacon constantly for 48 hrs and it is still loud and clear. Is that typical?
[20:36] <robert1971> opps type and drive I ment
[20:40] <ShellEvil> you mean batttery not dying?
[20:41] <robert1971> ShellEvil: Yes. I guess 10mw is not a lot
[20:42] <robert1971> W=VI i guess Threfore I=W/V
[20:43] <ShellEvil> Bugger all.
[20:43] <robert1971> The data sheet says 18mA
[20:43] <ShellEvil> Though 10mW will not be what it draws
[20:43] <robert1971> Ouch that hurt!
[20:44] <robert1971> :-P
[20:44] <ShellEvil> 18mA@5?
[20:44] <ShellEvil> what's batteries?
[20:45] <robert1971> 2xAA
[20:46] <ShellEvil> if at 5V, that's over 60h
[20:46] <robert1971> AA = 1.5 2xAA = 3v?
[20:46] <ShellEvil> yes
[20:46] <ShellEvil> or 2.4 if NiMH
[20:47] <robert1971> Cool. At least the beacon won't die. Infact the AVR looks like it's going out first at this rate.
[20:48] <robert1971> how did you work out how long the battery's would last?
[20:49] <robert1971> Evening RocketBoyv1 Any news on availablity?
[20:50] <edmoore> recommendations for an ethernet cable to wifi unit?
[20:50] <edmoore> want something cheap to get wifi in the shed
[20:52] <robert1971> edmoore: What do you want a long ethernet cable?
[20:52] <edmoore> to get from router to a distance within shed range
[20:52] <edmoore> shed is at the end of the garden
[20:52] <robert1971> How about to the shed
[20:53] <robert1971> I can knock one up at work if you want
[20:53] <edmoore> it would get mown for sure
[20:53] <edmoore> I'm thinking a cable out the windown, down the wall of the house, up into the garage, and perched by the garage window
[20:53] <edmoore> which is 20m from the shed
[20:54] <robert1971> Can you do overhead cable? Do you have a spare wifi router?
[20:54] <edmoore> no and no - it's the cheapest way of terminating the ethernet cable with a wifi point that I want
[20:55] <robert1971> I may have a spre wifi router
[20:55] <robert1971> spare
[20:55] <edmoore> completely no frills - let main router do dhcp too
[20:56] <robert1971> Humm I have three demo routers with 4 port hub and wifi. I'm sure you can use one of those to extend your lan
[20:56] <robert1971> demo = demon
[20:56] <robert1971> Do you wan't one
[20:57] <edmoore> how much would you want for it?
[20:58] <robert1971> a penny less than 1p
[20:59] <edmoore> oh right! that's very kind of you
[21:00] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[21:01] <ShellEvil> edmoore: got power in shed?
[21:01] <edmoore> ShellEvil: yes, but on a different ring main to the house
[21:02] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[21:09] <edmoore> ShellEvil: what was that counter 74 series logic chip?
[21:13] <ShellEvil> edmoore: I forget.
[21:13] <ShellEvil> Look at TI
[21:13] <ShellEvil> they have a selector
[21:13] <ShellEvil> it's the only dual 16 bit counter
[21:26] <robert1971> I thin I took the
[21:27] <robert1971> edmoore: i think I took the routers into work. I'll dig them out with the cable tomorrow.
[21:27] <edmoore> ok grand - thank you
[21:30] <SpikeUK> robert1971 - sorry for late response - tracker v interesting
[21:34] SpikeUK (n=user@host86-139-183-57.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) left #highaltitude.
[22:27] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[22:29] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[23:00] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-133-69-206.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:00] <Laurenceb> hi all
[23:01] <natrium42> hi lb
[23:02] RocketBoyv1 (n=grunge@217.47.75.27) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:04] Shanuson (n=Peter@p54A97FF7.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[23:05] <robert1971> quiet evening are we all busy on our projects?
[23:05] <Ebola> busy reaming goats
[23:05] <Ebola> oh wait
[23:06] <Ebola> wrong channel >_<
[23:06] <robert1971> I have uploaded my c code for listing to a gps device and producing tracking strings for natrium42's tracker
[23:06] <robert1971> :-P
[23:06] <Ebola> productive of you
[23:06] <robert1971> I thought so too
[23:07] <edmoore> pcb design
[23:07] Action: ShellEvil is trying to clear up to do a prototype of a foil balloon.
[23:07] <Ebola> I should find something useful to do, night shift is boring.
[23:07] <ShellEvil> Just a small 10m^2 one.
[23:07] <robert1971> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:gpstrack still very beta, but works a treat if that isn't conflicting
[23:08] Action: Laurenceb is knackered
[23:09] <Laurenceb> hopefully I'll have the mini rogallo ready by november
[23:13] <robert1971> Night all, C U 2 morrow
[23:16] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left #highaltitude.
[23:20] <Laurenceb> grrr I've frogotten how to use gcc
[23:21] <Laurenceb> I just need to compile some c code
[23:21] <Laurenceb> and output an elf
[23:22] <Laurenceb> what options do I need?
[23:22] <gordonjcp> -o
[23:22] <gordonjcp> elf is default, isn't it?
[23:23] <Laurenceb> gcc -o mycode.c ?
[23:24] <gordonjcp> gcc thing.c -o thing
[23:24] <gordonjcp> just gcc thing.c will give you a file called a.out
[23:24] <gordonjcp> but iirc it will actually be elf
[23:25] <Laurenceb> ah yes... seems to be working
[23:25] <Laurenceb> ta
[23:36] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[23:38] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[00:00] --- Wed Sep 10 2008