highaltitude.log.20080902

[00:10] <Laurenceb_> hmm this is interesting
[00:10] <Laurenceb_> something causes my code to pause for about a minute at cutdown
[00:10] <Laurenceb_> just a sec I'll stick it up
[00:11] <Laurenceb_> ok its up
[00:12] <Laurenceb_> on ze wiki
[00:12] <Laurenceb_> I think something is going wrong with the integration just before cutdown(100);
[00:13] <fuzzylugnuts> oh noes! that could be used by the competition! better take down the wiki!
[00:14] <Laurenceb_> lol
[00:16] <Laurenceb_> heightupto is intitalised as 1, so what will that loop do?
[00:25] <Laurenceb_> oh blast
[00:25] <Laurenceb_> cutdown(100) does a 100 second cutdown
[00:25] <fuzzylugnuts> blast and confound!
[00:25] Action: Laurenceb_ gets a new brain
[00:25] <fuzzylugnuts> can I have the old one?
[00:25] <Laurenceb_> I forgot how my own code works
[00:25] <fuzzylugnuts> I didn't have dinner yet.
[00:37] <fnoble_lab> it would appear i am a moron
[00:38] <fuzzylugnuts> ?
[00:38] <fnoble_lab> have been struggling for hours to get this chip to program
[00:38] <fnoble_lab> no, it wasnt the rise times on the serial line
[00:39] <fnoble_lab> it wasnt a problem with the voltage regulator
[00:39] <fuzzylugnuts> what was it?
[00:39] <fnoble_lab> i just connected the data line to the reset and the reset to the data
[00:39] <fnoble_lab> : (
[00:39] <fuzzylugnuts> ooh
[00:39] <fuzzylugnuts> drink more before working on it
[00:40] <fnoble_lab> it would have helped if i hadnt put the silkscreen'd on labels the wrong way round on the board
[00:40] <fuzzylugnuts> ahh
[00:40] <fnoble_lab> but that was still very stupid
[00:41] <Laurenceb_> hmm anyone used avr a lot here?
[00:41] <fuzzylugnuts> bummer
[00:41] <fnoble_lab> well at least its working now
[00:41] <fuzzylugnuts> yay!
[00:42] <Laurenceb_> I think my battery is too low - its 4.3v and I'm running an atmega168 at 20mhz
[00:42] <fnoble_lab> yeah, i was getting stressed out
[00:42] <Laurenceb_> it starts and runs if you turn the power off and leave it for a few seconds
[00:42] <fnoble_lab> need to get this finished by the end of the week or im in the poo
[00:42] <Laurenceb_> but the reset sometimes causes it to die
[00:42] <Laurenceb_> any idea?
[00:43] <Laurenceb_> just the low supply voltage?
[00:43] <fuzzylugnuts> could be
[00:43] <fnoble_lab> you mean the power cycle reset?
[00:43] <Laurenceb_> yes
[00:43] <Laurenceb_> power cycle usually works
[00:43] <fnoble_lab> or you are saying its fine with a power cycle but not under another reset?
[00:43] <Laurenceb_> reste switch sometimes causes it to die
[00:43] <fnoble_lab> are you doing something silly in the reset handler?
[00:44] <fnoble_lab> like only jumping into the main code on a POR?
[00:44] <fnoble_lab> and not on a reset switch reset
[00:44] <Laurenceb_> dont think so
[00:44] <Laurenceb_> the code is on the wiki
[00:44] <fnoble_lab> ok
[00:44] <Laurenceb_> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:parafoil_tsip
[00:45] <Laurenceb_> its odd as it does run ok once you've got it going
[00:45] <Laurenceb_> but sometimes it just refuses to start up - the bootloader is being glitchy as well
[00:45] <fnoble_lab> what voltage range is the chip rated for?
[00:45] <Laurenceb_> but Vcc is around 4.4v and fluctuating down to 4.2v
[00:46] <Laurenceb_> 4.5v absolute minimum at 20mhz
[00:46] <fnoble_lab> does it work running it from a proper regulated supply?
[00:46] <Laurenceb_> hence why I suspect the power, its just slightly odd behaviour I hadnt seen before
[00:46] <fnoble_lab> it sounds like that may be your problem
[00:46] <fnoble_lab> but like i say, i dont know avr
[00:47] <Laurenceb_> this is regulated, the batteries are just used up
[00:47] <fnoble_lab> well, try it in its correct voltage range and see if the problem goes away
[00:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah, the power requirements are going to differ depending on what happens
[00:48] <Laurenceb_> so screwy behaviour is to be expected
[00:49] <Laurenceb_> oh well apart from that everything seems to work :P
[00:49] <Laurenceb_> it just needs a function to read the mlx90609's temp sensor
[00:51] <Laurenceb_> I may add I2C eeprom support as well
[00:51] <fuzzylugnuts> alrighty, I'm off. good luck with your projects
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[00:52] <Laurenceb_> grr I'm still looking for a winch horn for my futaba servo
[00:53] <Laurenceb_> its only a bit of plastic ffs
[00:56] <natrium42> haha
[00:56] <natrium42> too bad they use different standards...
[00:56] <fnoble_lab> Laurenceb_: have you tried in a model store?
[00:56] <Laurenceb_> no, none near here
[00:56] <Laurenceb_> theres one on ebay but its in the states
[00:57] <fnoble_lab> Laurenceb_: im sure you could make one though
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> I'm looking on model store sites
[00:57] <fnoble_lab> just get a 4 pronged horn and glue a reel to it
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> yeah I suppose so
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> its the splines onto the servo that are the problem
[00:57] <fnoble_lab> or bolt through if it has to take a high load
[00:58] <Laurenceb_> the actual drum can be made on a lathe
[00:58] <Laurenceb_> yes, I want to have a fair bit of tension on the lines
[00:58] <fnoble_lab> Laurenceb_: yeah those splines would be hard to machine
[00:59] <Laurenceb_> I bet theres somewhere in the UK that has them for £2... its just a matter of finding it
[00:59] <fnoble_lab> so make a drum and tap small holes in it then put some small machine screws through the horn into the drum
[00:59] <fnoble_lab> yeah, you will find one
[00:59] <fnoble_lab> im sure you will
[00:59] <Laurenceb_> yeah I'll resort to that if I dont find anything, its just not quite as nice
[00:59] <fnoble_lab> or maybe just buy a boat winch servo complete with drum
[01:00] <Laurenceb_> yeah, the cheap ones are £12 or so, but its such a waste
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[01:03] <Laurenceb_> http://www.racelines.org/products.htm < they seem to sell the hitec one for £1.50, but its out of stock
[01:06] <Laurenceb_> oh well time to get some shut eye, cya
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[08:37] <jcoxon> morning
[08:38] <akawaka> morning
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[08:40] <jcoxon> urgh, next doors gutter is blocked so all the rain is overflowing making a hell of a noise as it hits the pavement
[08:40] <jcoxon> straight over the front door :-p
[08:40] <jcoxon> going to be fun going out today
[08:41] <akawaka> it rained here about a month ago
[08:41] <akawaka> other than that it hasn't rained since february i think
[08:41] <akawaka> i miss it
[08:41] <akawaka> until i go home for a week
[08:41] <akawaka> then i've had enough of rain for a while
[08:42] <jcoxon> oh we've had a typical british summer - damp
[08:43] <akawaka> thats what my mom tells me
[08:44] <jcoxon> i reckon we've had about 5 or 6 days of sunshine in the last month or so
[08:44] <jcoxon> :-p
[08:44] <jcoxon> oh well
[08:45] <jcoxon> perhaps we'll have an indian summer
[09:00] <edmoore> morning
[09:00] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[09:00] <edmoore> all well?
[09:00] <jcoxon> yup
[09:00] <jcoxon> you?
[09:02] <gordonjcp> nice up here in Glasgow...
[09:03] <edmoore> not bad. work 'n' that
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[09:37] <gordonjcp> what do you guys use for the camera?
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[09:42] <Laurenceb_> well recently we've been using a canon powershot with custom firmware
[09:43] <Laurenceb_> but we've used loads of premier ones off ebay
[09:43] <gordonjcp> is that the chdk firmware
[09:43] <gordonjcp> ?
[09:43] <Laurenceb_> yes
[09:43] <gordonjcp> cool
[09:44] <gordonjcp> and that lets you trip the shutter and download pics, and doesn't hammer the battery?
[09:47] <Laurenceb_> well you just turn on the camera and it runs
[09:47] <Laurenceb_> no hacking required
[09:48] <Laurenceb_> with other cameras we've hacked the shutter button
[09:48] <Laurenceb_> the premiers all seem to use an ARM9 running on 3.3v from a switched mode supply
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[09:54] <gordonjcp> ool
[09:54] <gordonjcp> cool, even
[10:05] <Laurenceb_> hmm if I typecast 1.5 as a char, what do I get?
[10:09] <akawaka> 1
[10:10] <Laurenceb_> hmm ok
[10:10] <Laurenceb_> what about 1.4 or 1.9 ?
[10:10] <akawaka> c rounds down
[10:10] <Laurenceb_> ah ok
[10:10] <akawaka> towards 0 i mean
[10:12] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[10:24] <Laurenceb_> hmm if I create a struct from two datatypes say foo and bar
[10:24] <Laurenceb_> then typedef this as a new type say x
[10:24] <Laurenceb_> then have a function that returns x
[10:25] <Laurenceb_> then if in the function I calculate foo and bar, how do I return the correct type?
[10:27] <Laurenceb_> can I typecast somehow?
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[10:40] <robert1971> moring all
[10:41] <robert1971> Just borken open a li-ion dell laptop battery and found six cells. Apparently output is 11.1v any reason why this shouldn't be the power source for my flight?
[10:44] <jcoxon> robert1971, you're going to need 11v?!?
[10:46] <jcoxon> bbl
[10:46] <gordonjcp> are the patches to the sstvtx.c code up on the wiki, or anything?
[10:47] <jcoxon> back
[10:47] <jcoxon> ummm there is a new version on the ukhas wiki
[10:47] <robert1971> 7.1v for the AVR, jcoxon: can you remember what the gumstix needs?
[10:47] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:sstv
[10:48] <jcoxon> gumstix needs 4.5v
[10:48] <jcoxon> surely AVRs running on lower
[10:51] <robert1971> No idea why the dev board needs 7.1v but thats what the spec says. It's got some reducer on the board
[10:51] <jcoxon> which AVR are you using?
[10:54] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: schweet
[10:55] <robert1971> jcoxon: http://www.active-robots.com/products/controllr/m32db.shtml
[10:55] <robert1971> I should just buy pass the regulator and send it 5v direct
[10:55] <robert1971> bypass
[10:55] <jcoxon> its a nice board
[10:56] <robert1971> There is a circut diagram
[10:56] <jcoxon> its just the higher the voltage the more the batteries are required therefore more weight
[10:56] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: ""Don't let worry kill you -- let the church help.""
[10:56] <robert1971> Made my life easier with the MAX 232 chip on there
[10:57] <jcoxon> that said you could run it off 2 Li-Pos
[10:57] <jcoxon> LIPOs*
[10:57] <robert1971> Yep 9v ones
[10:57] <jcoxon> no 2 x 3.7v
[10:57] <robert1971> in //
[10:58] <robert1971> Just an ordinary 9v battery seems to last 6-8 hrs
[10:58] <jcoxon> 2 of these http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=340
[10:59] <robert1971> They look nice. Have you used these at altitude?
[11:00] <jcoxon> yes/no
[11:00] <jcoxon> my firefly payloads used them
[11:00] <jcoxon> but there were issues but i don't think it was battery issues
[11:00] <robert1971> No leaks then
[11:01] <robert1971> How have batteries faired with altitude to date?
[11:01] <jcoxon> batteries have been fine
[11:01] <robert1971> No problems with the pressure?
[11:01] <jcoxon> we've pretty much always used energizer lithiums
[11:01] <jcoxon> no
[11:01] <robert1971> Not that there is any air in them
[11:01] <robert1971> I may just stick to the lithiums
[11:02] <jcoxon> for a first flight would be a plan
[11:02] <jcoxon> they are definitely reliable
[11:02] <robert1971> That's what i like to hear
[11:02] <robert1971> Radio is cool. Though I'm yet to turn it on
[11:02] <jcoxon> haha
[11:02] <jcoxon> its very exciting
[11:02] <robert1971> Charging all last night for 8 hrs
[11:03] <jcoxon> i'm jealosu
[11:03] <jcoxon> jealous
[11:03] <gordonjcp> it's very cool
[11:03] <robert1971> I'm not really sure what it can do to be honest. The bloke on the phone seened to think it was the one to go forward with and now i have to learn how to use it
[11:04] <gordonjcp> I still need to work out if I can add a BFO to an FM rig and expect it to receive morse...
[11:04] <robert1971> Really what i want it to do is the rtty and perhaps a bit of beacon location.
[11:04] <robert1971> Time to get chatting to the ham people. Going to a meeting tomorrow night.
[11:05] <robert1971> I must do a bit of work now so i'm going to go silent'ish
[11:13] <gordonjcp> bloody hell, the rocketboy-hacked sstvtx is a lot quicker
[11:14] <jcoxon> 40% quicker?
[11:14] <gordonjcp> seems more
[11:15] <jcoxon> haven't yet tried it
[11:15] <jcoxon> need to fire up the my gumstix compiler
[12:26] <robert1971> Is rocket boy a coder?
[12:34] <robert1971> jcoxon: looks like I'm starting my foundation course on Saturday
[12:54] <robert1971> natrium42: Not sure if you're up yet. 1/2 way though writing a program to send tracker emails every few mins by parsing the output on the serial port. Will attach code to wiki when done. The idea is you run the program as a daemon bit like gpsd and it will send the tracker an email every specified period. I'm going to include the option of emailing every one second reading or just one reading every time period.
[12:57] <jcoxon> robert1971, oh cool!
[12:57] <jcoxon> thats quick
[12:59] <jcoxon> robert1971, would it be easier to instead of doing emails just call the url with the added variables?
[13:01] <robert1971> true, forgot about that option
[13:02] <jcoxon> thats what i'm doing on my mcontrol software
[13:02] <robert1971> Is that what I saw in the mac that day. Reading the rtty stuff and sending it to the tracker
[13:03] <jcoxon> yup
[13:03] <robert1971> I flooded the tracker the other day with email and it linked my points very weirdly. I'm wondering if it uses the arrival time of the email rather than the gps time to calculate point order
[13:04] <robert1971> I'll use the force and read the source
[13:04] <jcoxon> hehe
[13:04] <jcoxon> i reckon the url system would be better
[13:04] <jcoxon> robert1971, there is a copy of my code on my website
[13:04] <jcoxon> its written in RubyCocoa
[13:05] <robert1971> Yep i'll do that. May even do both but url is easier.
[13:05] <robert1971> I'm in C
[13:05] <jcoxon> hardcore :-p
[13:07] <robert1971> That RubyCocoa looks cool... I'm developing for any platform hopefully. At least mac and unix. Will test on my mac when I get home
[13:08] <robert1971> The idea is that i'll send the chasers out with an eee 900, GPS, and a USB GSM connection and their positions will be plotted as they chase.
[13:09] <jcoxon> sounds very organised!
[13:12] <jcoxon> right, have jsut worked out how to go up and down on my radio electronically
[13:13] <robert1971> Depends on gps signal. That's why I like the idea of emailing back a host of signals which will plot the path even during times of outage. Given the size of the strings it would only take a second to send the whole chase to point of sending each time. The logger on the server would then only add the new points.
[13:13] <robert1971> Cool
[13:13] <robert1971> I'm hoping that will be easy for me as the guy said it could be controlled by a datacable
[13:13] <robert1971> Opps not GPS GSM signal
[13:13] <jcoxon> oh i'm sure it'll be very easy
[13:15] <robert1971> That last bit wasnt very clear basically when the GSM data link is flaky I hope to send over the missing points from the chase car in an email for inclusion in the tracker
[13:16] <jcoxon> oh okay
[13:16] <jcoxon> damn, maplins don't stock 7 pin mic plugs
[13:16] <robert1971> one second points might be a bit overkill though.
[13:17] <robert1971> I'm lucky having the farnell distribution center on my door step.
[13:17] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:17] <jcoxon> london is terrible for any electrical stuff
[13:17] <robert1971> Mind you they won't sell mikes
[13:17] <robert1971> Ah sorry you want the plug
[13:18] <robert1971> Do U need it today?
[13:18] <jcoxon> ooo wait
[13:18] <jcoxon> might have been looking in the wrong place
[13:18] <robert1971> Thats the problem with the maplin site
[13:19] <jcoxon> damn they do 6 and 8 pin plugs
[13:19] <jcoxon> not 7 :-(
[13:35] <robert1971> Do you use libcurl to sent the url, I see there is a Cocoa wrapper
[13:35] <edmoore> afternoon toutes
[13:35] <robert1971> If you want I can collect one from farnell on the way home and post tomorrow. Depends how soon you need it
[13:36] Action: robert1971 nods to edmoore
[13:36] <edmoore> It is really quite unfair that you live by a farnell outlet
[13:36] <robert1971> I think its the RDC for europe :)
[13:37] <jcoxon> robert1971, i don't think even they stock them
[13:37] <jcoxon> can't find it in the inventory
[13:37] <jcoxon> robert1971, i use webkit as I've already got an instance set up to view the tracker from the softwre
[13:37] <jcoxon> software*
[13:37] <jcoxon> but then i do use curl for uploading the pictures to the tracker
[13:39] <robert1971> http://uk.farnell.com/1193799/connectors/product.us0?sku=deltron-590-0700
[13:40] <robert1971> ?
[13:40] <jcoxon> other way round
[13:40] <jcoxon> need the female version
[13:41] <jcoxon> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rg4wpw/7pin.jpg
[13:44] <jcoxon> bbl
[13:44] <robert1971> http://uk.farnell.com/1321490/connectors/product.us0?sku=lumberg-kv70
[13:45] <robert1971> If you do find one and you want me to send it let me know.
[13:46] <jcoxon> hmmm
[13:46] <jcoxon> sadly i don't think its right
[13:47] <edmoore> whatcha doing jcoxon ?
[13:47] <jcoxon> no worries though - definitely in no hurry
[13:47] <jcoxon> edmoore, oh if you ground pins 6 and 7 on the yeasu mic input you can shift the freq up and down
[13:47] <jcoxon> better then the servo tuning
[13:47] <edmoore> by how much?
[13:48] <jcoxon> by the steps
[13:48] <jcoxon> on the mic there are up and down buttons
[13:49] <jcoxon> so my plan was to make a plug with some switches/transistors/fets or something
[13:49] <jcoxon> controlled by a computer
[13:49] <jcoxon> so that we could do a slightly better attempt at internet controlled radio
[13:49] <edmoore> ah col
[13:49] <edmoore> cool*
[13:49] <edmoore> we'd better get the yagi pointing hardware sorted then :)
[13:49] <jcoxon> hehe
[13:49] <edmoore> maybe an SBC would make a nice interface to all of this
[13:50] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:50] <edmoore> webcam, basic web server, outputs to the pointing bit
[13:50] <edmoore> and outputs to the radio
[13:50] <edmoore> it'd need to run some decoding software though
[13:50] <jcoxon> well there is fnoble's rtty
[13:50] <edmoore> one of those nano itx boards would probably be ace at it
[13:50] <edmoore> or the Via thingamies
[13:50] <jcoxon> which could be modded more
[13:50] <edmoore> exactly, that's what I was thinking
[13:50] <edmoore> loose the gui
[13:50] <jcoxon> so that it could control the radio appropritely
[13:51] <edmoore> steal the original author's decoding code + the peak tracking code fnoble wrote
[13:51] <robert1971> I have some old via's going spare 2 i think
[13:51] <robert1971> Not sure that they have power
[13:51] <jcoxon> then if it goes too much left or right we just get it to change the radio freq
[13:51] <robert1971> PSU's
[13:51] <edmoore> make a decent psu, make it waterproof, eh voila
[13:51] <edmoore> jcoxon: exactly
[13:51] <gordonjcp> is the TX that drifty?
[13:52] <edmoore> enough to make it worth including the feature
[13:52] <edmoore> yes
[13:52] <jcoxon> robert1971, i've got a via min-itx psu :-p
[13:52] <edmoore> and also if it's on a roof somewhere we want to be able to changce to a completely diff part of 434
[13:52] <jcoxon> but my mini-itx board is broke
[13:52] <edmoore> for a different mission if it's on a different freq
[13:53] <jcoxon> edmoore, it could do quite a bit of work with a whip
[13:53] <robert1971> I'll see if we still have them down stairs.
[13:53] <edmoore> we really do need some kind of software feedback on the freq though
[13:53] <edmoore> jcoxon: yeah, but yagi would certainly be better
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[13:53] <jcoxon> oh course
[13:53] <jcoxon> but development step by step wise
[13:54] <jcoxon> i reckon we could have the radio/software bit down before the yahi
[13:54] <jcoxon> yagi*
[13:54] <gordonjcp> the yagi is easy
[13:54] <jcoxon> done*
[13:54] <jcoxon> so is the radio :-p
[13:54] <gordonjcp> although the K5OE isn't particularly good for transmitting
[13:54] <edmoore> oh for sure
[13:55] <edmoore> i mean pan/tilt is a seperate project
[13:55] <edmoore> they're not critical path items
[13:55] <gordonjcp> well it's more an impedance thing, the folded dipole requires a balun
[13:55] <gordonjcp> but for receiving it's extremely good
[13:55] <jcoxon> edmoore, this shouldn't be difficult to put together at all
[13:56] Action: jcoxon likes nice easy projects where most of the tech is ready to be spliced together
[13:57] <edmoore> a yagi would also be good for uplink
[13:57] <jcoxon> bingo
[13:57] <jcoxon> ebay
[13:57] <edmoore> but yes, agree
[13:57] <jcoxon> of course
[13:57] <edmoore> this does seem very do-able
[13:58] <edmoore> maybe we could have one listing station in suffolk and then make a second for cam
[13:58] <edmoore> we'd be sorted then
[13:58] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:58] <jcoxon> right well how about i work on interfacing with the radio
[13:58] <jcoxon> just found the plugs on ebay
[14:00] <edmoore> an arduino solution would be larvely too
[14:00] <jcoxon> no problem
[14:00] <jcoxon> as in the arduino controls the radio?
[14:01] <edmoore> yeah
[14:01] <edmoore> just makes the interface hardware easy
[14:01] <jcoxon> i'll make a shield that just plugs on top
[14:01] <edmoore> could also then serial to the board that drives the motion controllers for a pan/tilt
[14:02] <edmoore> and itself connect to the sbc
[14:02] <jcoxon> that might need a bit more work :-p
[14:02] <edmoore> oh we'd make that board
[14:02] <jcoxon> okay
[14:02] <edmoore> it'd just ened to be able to accept commands from a pc
[14:02] <edmoore> and maybe spit some protocal to a motor driver board
[14:03] <jcoxon> similar to this
[14:03] <jcoxon> http://www.ladyada.net/make/mshield/
[14:04] <jcoxon> right i'm really off now :-[
[14:04] <jcoxon> oops
[14:04] <jcoxon> :-p
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[14:05] <edmoore> aye, we could knock up something like that
[14:06] <edmoore> google chrome looks quite promising
[14:06] <edmoore> from their comic
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[16:15] <robert1971> jcoxon: You can get them cheap here !!! http://www.diodecomms.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=90
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[16:22] <gordonjcp> yeah, that's not mini-din
[16:30] <robert1971> Corr he dosn't want much ... :)
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[16:39] <mc-> robert1971, you're at HGF?
[16:47] <natrium42> hi
[16:48] <edmoore> hi natrium42
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[19:41] <jiffe98> whats an easy/reliable cutdown device to make?
[19:42] <ShellEvil> A monkey with a knife.
[19:42] <jiffe98> too much weight :)
[19:42] <ShellEvil> IIRC there is a link on the wiki
[19:43] <jiffe98> yeah, I'm just wondering if there were other methods used
[19:43] <ShellEvil> I would use a small power resistor, rated to 300C or so, with a filliment over it.
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[19:49] <jiffe98> that might work
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[20:14] <robert1971> evening edmoore edmoore_ edmoore__
[20:15] <edmoore_> oh good lord
[20:15] <edmoore_> storm is affecting adsl
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> np: Queen - Flash!
[20:16] <robert1971> edmoore: bit wet down there for you sir
[20:17] <robert1971> Clear evening here up north.
[20:17] <robert1971> Any one know how I can see if my radio is working mode and freqency with something on it?
[20:19] <edmoore_> we could send up a balloon?
[20:20] <gordonjcp> robert1971: amateur satellites/
[20:20] <gordonjcp> ?
[20:21] <gordonjcp> fire up gpredict and see what it has to say
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[20:27] <robert1971> edmoore: I was thinking of a known channel with something on it :) Though a ballon would be good. Be interesting to see if I can track from here next time. Might need a good antenna
[20:28] <robert1971> Did jcoxon have his window open last friday night
[20:28] <robert1971> or should I say friday morning?
[20:28] <robert1971> Thursday even :)
[20:29] <gordonjcp> robert1971: find your local repeater
[20:29] <gordonjcp> you should at least get a beacon every 15 minutes
[20:29] <gordonjcp> what does the radio cover?
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[20:46] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[20:46] <edmoore> there we go
[21:12] <gordonjcp> edmoore's tail fell off
[21:14] <edmoore> I evolved
[21:14] <akawaka> heathan
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[21:53] <robert1971> ooh no jcoxon
[21:54] <robert1971> gordonjcp: Thanks for that. I'll google for a local beacon now
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[21:57] <robert1971> Humm what are beacons. I think I don't know enought to turn the radio on. It has lots of numbers on the front
[21:57] <robert1971> If I hold the power button for 1 second it turns on :)
[21:57] <robert1971> It makes a hissing sound
[21:57] <robert1971> So far so good
[21:59] <robert1971> There are quite a few modes CW, USB, LSB etc...
[22:00] <robert1971> DIG, PKT, AM, FM
[22:00] <robert1971> any hints out there?
[22:00] <robert1971> Which one should I choose :)
[22:00] <ShellEvil> For what?
[22:01] <robert1971> my new radio
[22:01] <ShellEvil> for recieving what/.
[22:01] <robert1971> I'm going to a ham place on saturday
[22:01] <robert1971> Don't care really something would be nice
[22:01] <robert1971> I can hear the static in the universe just fine
[22:02] <ShellEvil> Maybe http://www.reddit.com/r/bacon might be of use.
[22:02] <ShellEvil> More seriously.
[22:02] <ShellEvil> what frequencies can it do?
[22:02] <robert1971> lots I think
[22:03] <robert1971> Is that the band thing
[22:03] <robert1971> sorry about this as you can see I know bollox all about radios
[22:03] <ShellEvil> http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5471/ssblist.htm
[22:04] <ShellEvil> http://windom.cybox.com/ssb.html
[22:04] <ShellEvil> ratehr
[22:05] <ShellEvil> http://www.yachtcom.info/Frequencies.htm
[22:05] <ShellEvil> ...
[22:05] <robert1971> Ok I'll have a look
[22:05] <ShellEvil> a big antenna is a good plan
[22:05] <ShellEvil> hooking a long wire to it.
[22:06] <robert1971> Where do people talk
[22:06] <robert1971> CW
[22:06] <robert1971> is that a good mode?
[22:06] <ShellEvil> cw is morse.
[22:06] <ShellEvil> Do you understand morse?
[22:07] <robert1971> Humm probably not then; ... --- ... thats about it
[22:07] <robert1971> I know crap hey
[22:07] <ShellEvil> does it come with a little booklet?
[22:08] <robert1971> Have it in front of me. It's a yaesu ft-817nd
[22:08] <ShellEvil> Have you read the little booklet?
[22:08] <robert1971> LSB USB is that the talking mode?
[22:08] <robert1971> Reading
[22:08] <ShellEvil> yes
[22:08] <ShellEvil> it's sort of the 'way round' the voice energy is put into the channel
[22:09] <robert1971> Is that lower and upper side band?
[22:09] <robert1971> vertical / horizontal signal?
[22:10] <ShellEvil> no
[22:14] <gordonjcp> robert1971: where are you?
[22:15] <robert1971> wf12 0nq
[22:15] <robert1971> Dewsbury, Leeds UK
[22:15] <gordonjcp> ok
[22:15] <ShellEvil> Normally when you amplitude modulate a 1MHz signal with a 1KHz signal, you get:
[22:15] <ShellEvil> 999KHz, the residual 1000KHz carrier, and 1001Khz
[22:15] <ShellEvil> This is AM
[22:16] <ShellEvil> With SSB you filter out the 1000KHz carrier and below
[22:16] <ShellEvil> so you only have the 1001KHz signal
[22:16] <ShellEvil> a 2KHz signal modulating then shifts this frequency to 1002KHz
[22:16] <ShellEvil> This is upper side band.
[22:17] <ShellEvil> Lower sideband is the opposite. - the top sideband and carrier is cut off.
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[22:18] <gordonjcp> robert1971: try 145.725MHz
[22:19] <gordonjcp> robert1971: also 145.7875
[22:20] <robert1971> ok here I come which mode
[22:20] <gordonjcp> the first should get you GB3TP, the second GB3YW
[22:20] <gordonjcp> http://www.ukrepeater.net/repeaters/gb3yw.htm
[22:21] <gordonjcp> use FM
[22:21] <gordonjcp> if you haven't got a licence, don't transmit ;-)
[22:22] <ShellEvil> Unless it's an emergency, then you can
[22:25] <robert1971> Got some beeping on 145.787.5 FM
[22:25] <gordonjcp> that would be GB3TP
[22:26] <gordonjcp> it will send its callsign in morse every 15 minutes or so
[22:27] <robert1971> Do I just turn that sql thing until the background hiss goes
[22:27] <robert1971> and wait
[22:27] <gordonjcp> yup
[22:27] <gordonjcp> sql = Squelch
[22:28] <gordonjcp> mutes the speaker until a strong enough signal comes in
[22:28] <gordonjcp> for very weak signals you want it *off*
[22:28] <robert1971> On 145.725
[22:29] <gordonjcp> what model is your radio?
[22:29] <robert1971> Need to get a rear antenna
[22:29] <robert1971> ft-817nd yaesu
[22:29] <gordonjcp> I recommend the K5OE handi-tenna for receiving 70cm stuff
[22:30] <gordonjcp> ok
[22:30] <gordonjcp> robert1971: are you on Linux?
[22:30] <robert1971> Oh yes
[22:30] <gordonjcp> ok
[22:30] <gordonjcp> install gpredict
[22:30] <gordonjcp> that will give you satellite passes
[22:30] <robert1971> \dev\null
[22:30] <gordonjcp> they're worth a listen
[22:31] <robert1971> ooh that xwindows stuff
[22:31] <robert1971> Give me a sec and I'll start up gnome
[22:31] <robert1971> Tume on fm for them too?
[22:31] <robert1971> tune?
[22:31] <gordonjcp> depends
[22:32] <gordonjcp> best to google - some are SSB, some are CW so you'll want a BFO
[22:32] <gordonjcp> ShellEvil: ping?
[22:32] <ShellEvil> ?
[22:32] Action: ShellEvil has no (functional) reciever.
[22:33] <gordonjcp> ShellEvil: random question, if I fire up a BFO near an *FM* receiver will it still resolve CW?
[22:33] <ShellEvil> Umm.
[22:33] <ShellEvil> Sort-of.
[22:33] <ShellEvil> It will do something.
[22:33] <gordonjcp> maybe I could apply FM to the BFO, or something
[22:33] <ShellEvil> On no modulation, it will act like CW, and beat normally
[22:34] <gordonjcp> I basically need to get a better radio
[22:34] <gordonjcp> robert1971: on 435.352 you *might* hear RS-22 with the rubber duck - it's a very high pass and it's a beast of a TX
[22:35] <gordonjcp> most of the bits on RS-22 have stopped working but the CW beacon is still going strong
[22:35] <gordonjcp> and doesn't have to worry about batteries
[22:35] <gordonjcp> http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/satInfo.php?satID=76&retURL=/satellites/status.php
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[22:38] <fnoble> hello
[22:39] <fnoble> edmoore, hi, wahts new?
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[22:47] <robert1971> gordonjcp should i be on fm for that sat?
[22:48] <gordonjcp> robert1971: cw
[22:48] <gordonjcp> on FM you'll hear the noise kind of gating on and off
[22:48] <gordonjcp> you'd need to be outside
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[22:50] <robert1971> oh
[22:50] <robert1971> i'm in my jimmy jams
[22:50] <robert1971> i'm glad you said thay
[22:50] <robert1971> that
[22:51] <gordonjcp> you *might* if you were near a west-facing window hear it
[22:52] <gordonjcp> it'll be coming from approximately north and heading to south-west
[22:52] <gordonjcp> starts about 2250GMT (2350 local), ends about 2300GMT
[23:00] <robert1971> Yipee I heard the 145.7875 beacon :)
[23:01] <robert1971> And some guy chatting on it
[23:01] <gordonjcp> fun, isnt' it
[23:01] <gordonjcp> cool
[23:01] Action: gordonjcp is doing the practical for the foundation exam on Thursday ;-)
[23:01] <robert1971> I thought there would be a lot more chatting on the frequencies
[23:01] <gordonjcp> but now, it's bedtime...
[23:01] <gordonjcp> nn all
[23:01] <robert1971> nn
[23:01] <gordonjcp> robert1971: it varies
[23:11] <robert1971> Hey I can hear a few people chatting on the radio
[23:11] <robert1971> I can't wait till I get my licence
[23:11] <robert1971> edmoore: this rocks
[23:11] <robert1971> natrium42: ping
[23:14] <fnoble> robert1971, what are you listening to?
[23:15] <robert1971> Some guys chatting on 145.7875
[23:15] <fnoble> oh cool - what is the beacon?
[23:15] <robert1971> I think that is a beakon
[23:15] <robert1971> beacon
[23:15] <fnoble> ok cool
[23:16] <fnoble> i only have a 70cm band radio here
[23:16] <robert1971> gordonjcp: told me about it. Makes a funny morse thing every so often
[23:16] <robert1971> 70cm doesn't mean much to me. Can you not get that beacon
[23:17] <fnoble> 70cm is 434mhz-ish band
[23:17] <robert1971> Ok cool
[23:17] <fnoble> i dont know much about radios, this is jut the one we use for our balloon
[23:17] <robert1971> Is there a reltionship there between band and frequency
[23:18] <robert1971> relationship
[23:18] <fnoble> well if the band is given as a length then yes, its the wavelength of a wave of that frequency
[23:19] <fnoble> wavelength = spped of light / frequency
[23:20] <robert1971> How far can you transmit with 5Mw?
[23:20] <ShellEvil> round the earth
[23:20] <fnoble> mw or Mw?
[23:20] <fnoble> i think 5Mw could be heard almost anywhere :)
[23:21] <robert1971> humm, units wrong
[23:21] <robert1971> 5watts
[23:21] <robert1971> That's my max
[23:21] <fnoble> i dont know enough about radio to say
[23:21] <fnoble> i think it depends on frequency
[23:22] <fnoble> but quite a long way i bet
[23:22] <fnoble> our 10mw transmitter got 100s of km line of sight be struggles beyond about 1km over the ground
[23:23] <fnoble> i say 100s, i mean 200 :)
[23:23] <robert1971> Should I get an outside antenna
[23:23] <robert1971> Probably should
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[23:24] <fnoble> dunno, ask RocketBoyv1, he is (one of?) our resident radio expert
[23:25] <ShellEvil> ˆIt totally depends on the frequency.
[23:25] <ShellEvil> Over about 10-30MHz or so (the Maximum Usable Frequency (which varies due to stuff) the radiation from your transmitter just heads out to space
[23:26] <ShellEvil> Under that frequency, it bounces off the ionosphere.
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> I'm trying to streamline my kalman code http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:kalman_filter
[23:27] <ShellEvil> When that happens, you get _lots_ of range - the range is only limited due to reciever sensitivity, and noise in the bandwidth in question.
[23:28] Action: ShellEvil passes Laurenceb_ a pair of enormous fins.
[23:29] <ShellEvil> What - it's too slow?
[23:29] <ShellEvil> Or too ugly?
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> sorry got sidetracked
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> anyway yes, I was going to ask, I have a matrix and a vector
[23:32] <robert1971> natrium42: ping
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> and a kalman model is defined as a struct of a matrix and vector
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> s/model/state
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> is there a way to typecast a matrix and vector as a kalman state?
[23:34] <Laurenceb_> I guess this is really a more general struct question in disguise :P
[23:36] <ShellEvil> I'm not seeing the problem with the way it is - and I'm not following.
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> ok nvm
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> grr alright... say I typecast a structure of two floats as some new datatype
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> is there a way to "turn" two floats into one of these new datatypes?
[23:38] <ShellEvil> It sounds like you're asking something very silly.
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[23:39] <ShellEvil> You want the compiler to guess when two floats should be one of these datatypes, and when they shouldn't?
[23:39] <Laurenceb_> no
[23:39] <ShellEvil> Sounds like in principle you could do a c++'y operator overloading thing
[23:39] <Laurenceb_> thats obvious
[23:39] <Laurenceb_> ah
[23:40] edmoore (n=edmoore@37.124-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) left irc:
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> I think the reason it couldnt work is that structure members are in consecutive addresses in ram
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> but two randomly chosen pieces of data might not be
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> ?
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> so to make one of the new types I have to create it then copy over the data into it?
[23:42] <ShellEvil> structure members may or may not be in consecutive addresses AIUI.
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> due to structure packing and stuff?
[23:42] <ShellEvil> yes
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> ok
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> but my point still holds?
[23:43] <Laurenceb_> I couldnt create a structure from data smeared out right across ram?
[23:43] <ShellEvil> Sorry - I don't see how the compiler could know when two floats (for example) were to be treated like a new structure
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> maybe for example a function could return two floats typecasted as some structure?
[23:44] <ShellEvil> As I understand it, that's not possible in C.
[23:45] <ShellEvil> If you want to be able to return things to a function, and just have it automatically know what type you returned.
[23:45] <Laurenceb_> ok... yeah it makes sense
[23:48] <ShellEvil> Of course you can return a pointer to a structure, the first byte of which informs the caller what sort of object it is.
[23:49] <ShellEvil> but then if you're calling a function, you'd usually know the return type
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> sure
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> I was just a bit confused, but if you think whats actually going on in ram, its more understandable
[23:50] <akawaka> first byte to indicate type is a common way of doing rtti in c
[23:50] <akawaka> and c++
[23:51] <akawaka> if you are returning a pointer, be sure to consider the lifetime of the memory that pointer is pointing to
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> yeah, I discovered that :P
[23:51] <ShellEvil> akawaka: That's a function of altitude, and descent velocity :)
[23:52] <akawaka> brb
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[23:58] <fnoble> going down to the lair
[23:58] <fnoble> brb
[00:00] --- Wed Sep 3 2008