highaltitude.log.20080826

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[07:19] <SpikeUK> Hi jcoxon - I did not get the chance yesterday to say how impressed I was with your mission on Sunday!
[07:19] <jcoxon> thanks
[07:19] <jcoxon> shame that most of my bit didn't work :-)
[07:19] <jcoxon> but the beacon did and we got it back so thats good
[07:20] <jcoxon> lots of lessons learnt
[07:21] <SpikeUK> Your bit was very ambitious with lots of very creative ideas!
[07:24] <SpikeUK> I'm working on adding a Gumstix to a small helicopter - I got lots of hints from your project - thanks!
[07:25] <jcoxon> nice
[07:25] <jcoxon> yeah i've used a lot of gumstixs
[07:25] <jcoxon> :-D
[07:25] <jcoxon> do hang around on this channel, there are going to be quite a few launches in the next couple of weeks
[07:26] <jcoxon> and i'll strive to get online tracking working (as it won't be me launching i'll have time to get it up and running!)
[07:26] <jcoxon> right have to go and visit relatives
[07:26] <jcoxon> will bbl
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[07:28] <SpikeUK> Will do! This is all new to me. I did have a wry smile about the use of 70cm fox hunting techniques - I used to do this 30+ years ago as a young G8+.
[07:28] <SpikeUK> That's "G8+3"
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[07:58] <gordonjcp> foxhunting is fun
[07:58] <gordonjcp> we have a small problem with people abusing repeaters
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[07:59] <gordonjcp> best thing is to troll them into *really* giving the repeater some stick
[07:59] <gordonjcp> then once they're playing their music down the rig to the repeater it's easy to sniff them out
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[08:07] <SpikeUK> That's not changed in thirty years either it seems ;-(
[08:09] <gordonjcp> SpikeUK: it seems to have got worse, not better
[08:09] Action: gordonjcp needs to phone RSGB dude about the licence exam
[08:10] <gordonjcp> good thing about irssi + screen, I can do /msg gordonjcp Phone R at lunch
[08:10] <gordonjcp> and it shows up as a highlighted window
[08:12] <gordonjcp> SpikeUK: when you can buy a semi-decent handie that covers 400-470MHz and spits out a fairly honest 2.5W from eBay with no licence required or anything, you're probably going to get a certain element...
[08:13] <SpikeUK> I guess so gordonjcp!
[08:14] Action: gordonjcp looks around the workshop at all the potentially illegal radio transmitters
[08:15] <gordonjcp> see, some of us can keep our fingers off the PTT
[08:15] <gordonjcp> I wanted a receiver for 70cm-ish and it was cheaper to buy an el-cheapo handie than a scanner
[08:16] <gordonjcp> plus it's nowhere near as deaf as the average scanner
[08:17] <SpikeUK> Good point! I have never tried UHF - 2m and down
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[09:02] <edmoore> morning robert1971
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[09:25] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:26] <edmoore> jcoxon: hello!
[09:26] <jcoxon> hey
[09:26] Action: jcoxon is on the road going south to visit relatives
[09:26] <edmoore> show-off
[09:26] <jcoxon> don't worry i'm not driving
[09:26] <edmoore> not driving though?
[09:26] <edmoore> phewww
[09:26] <edmoore> well
[09:27] <jcoxon> actually coming near your home home
[09:27] <edmoore> I've been thinking all night
[09:27] <jcoxon> right
[09:27] <edmoore> where abouts are you going?
[09:27] <jcoxon> careful, don't hurt yourself
[09:28] <jcoxon> petersfield
[09:28] <edmoore> Uhuh
[09:28] <edmoore> I went through there this morning
[09:28] <edmoore> to get not oxford not via the m25
[09:29] <jcoxon> so your thoughts...
[09:29] <edmoore> put the camera on a servo pan and tilt
[09:30] <edmoore> on the deck of the badger truck
[09:30] <jcoxon> okay
[09:30] <edmoore> so you can get the 'down' aswell of the deck in cotext, getting a picture like the 3rd one on this page
[09:30] <edmoore> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/mer/
[09:31] <jcoxon> so positioned above the deck a bit to allow movement
[09:31] <edmoore> indeed
[09:31] <edmoore> on a little stand
[09:31] <jcoxon> hmmmm interesting
[09:31] <edmoore> so it can see out and down to the earth
[09:31] <edmoore> and then, take a row of picture up to the vertical
[09:31] <edmoore> to the balloon
[09:32] <edmoore> and the final picture would be that fish-eye type stuff, but above it the column of pictures leading to the balloon
[09:32] <edmoore> And then print it A1
[09:32] <jcoxon> wow
[09:32] <jcoxon> sounds great
[09:32] <edmoore> what do you think?
[09:32] <jcoxon> certainly doable
[09:33] <edmoore> indeed
[09:33] <edmoore> doodling a pan/tilt now
[09:33] <jcoxon> need a focused flight
[09:33] <jcoxon> just to carry this out
[09:33] <jcoxon> to avoid over complication
[09:34] <edmoore> well it can fly on badger, which would get the basic in place
[09:34] <edmoore> have a seperate main camera
[09:34] <jcoxon> yup
[09:34] <edmoore> but this one on pan/tilt
[09:34] <jcoxon> badger controlled pan/tilt?
[09:34] <edmoore> which can also capture dutdown and cute deployment and stuff
[09:34] <edmoore> indeed, that's sort of what I'm designing
[09:34] <jcoxon> nice
[09:34] <edmoore> that'll do a sequence of shots to get all 360 degrees
[09:34] <jcoxon> sounds like a plan
[09:35] <edmoore> HAPS-2?
[09:35] <edmoore> UKHAS 2?
[09:35] <jcoxon> ummm both
[09:35] <jcoxon> doug and i have begun discussing haps-2
[09:35] <edmoore> we might want to put some sponsor logos on the deck
[09:35] <jcoxon> but haps-3
[09:36] <jcoxon> perhaps a cusf then
[09:36] <edmoore> well, I'll be starting on it as soon as badger2 is done
[09:37] <jcoxon> so prospective launch october?
[09:37] <edmoore> I don't want to commit to things. Only once hardware is proven and working and built will I start talking dates
[09:37] <edmoore> the other way round just leads to stress
[09:38] <jcoxon> i only meant - nothing sooner
[09:38] <SpikeUK> Don't let jcoxon bully you edmoore ;-)
[09:38] <jcoxon> did you see the updated 360 with the nice image of the sun
[09:38] <jcoxon> oi oi
[09:39] <jcoxon> anyway ed wouldn't let me bully him
[09:39] <SpikeUK> Good job too!
[09:39] <edmoore> he does sometimes
[09:39] <edmoore> i get quite upset
[09:39] <edmoore> but yeah, probably october
[09:40] <SpikeUK> AS if....
[09:40] <edmoore> unless it happens sooner, of course
[09:41] <SpikeUK> I'm currently working with a Gumstix Robostix and interfacing with a IMU so your talk of geostabilised camera platforms was of interest.
[09:43] <edmoore> well my current job (well, not payed job) is to build the new flight computer
[09:43] <edmoore> which will have a 6DOF imu on it
[09:44] <edmoore> so active correction for swinging is certainly posible
[09:45] <edmoore> though as the camera is mainly being built as the 'engineering' camera, we want it fixed relative to the payload rather than earth, for the most part
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[09:47] <edmoore> SpikeUK: are you interesting in doing some near-spacey?
[09:47] <edmoore> something*
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[09:47] <SpikeUK> OK. Which IMU are you using? We are using the Sparkfun 5DFU http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=741
[09:48] <edmoore> scratch built
[09:48] <edmoore> 3 x analog devices adxrs300, and 3 axes of analog devices accelerometers - the 330
[09:48] <SpikeUK> OK. Which IMU are you using? We are using the Sparkfun 5DFU http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=741
[09:49] <SpikeUK> That's "5DOF" although "5DFU" does have a ring to it.
[09:49] <SpikeUK> The sparkfun does use the 330
[09:49] <edmoore> :)
[09:49] <edmoore> they do the adxrs too
[09:49] <edmoore> we basically buy everything from sparkfun
[09:49] <SpikeUK> Indeed! So do we ;-)
[09:49] <edmoore> digikey + sparkfun = nearspace
[09:49] <edmoore> I was about to ask if you're UK based
[09:49] <edmoore> but that's a silly question
[09:50] <SpikeUK> That and RS/Maplin/CPC-Farnell.
[09:50] <SpikeUK> I'm in Surrey/West Sussex
[09:51] <jcoxon_> back later
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[09:52] <edmoore> SpikeUK: same
[09:52] <edmoore> live just north of arundel
[09:53] <SpikeUK> OK. I'm in Weybridge - work in Crawley
[09:53] <edmoore> I know weybride. Used to spend a lot of time in Walton
[09:54] <SpikeUK> Brooklands?
[09:57] <SpikeUK> Can I tie up later edmoore? I'm at work and should really do some ;-) I'll be back at 12ish
[09:58] <edmoore> haha, ok
[09:58] <edmoore> Oaklands
[09:58] <edmoore> sorry, for the delay, I was doing some work too!
[10:00] <SpikeUK> "Oatlands" - I live in Oatlands!
[10:00] <edmoore> that's what I mena!
[10:01] <edmoore> Oatlands drive
[10:01] <SpikeUK> Small world, especially from 30km ;-)
[10:02] <edmoore> :)
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[10:10] <edmoore> hi Laurenceb
[10:13] <Laurenceb> hello
[10:13] <Laurenceb> think I'm going for a futaba S3152 servo
[10:13] <edmoore> cool
[10:13] <edmoore> I'm looking at servos too atm
[10:14] <Laurenceb> its a mare
[10:14] <Laurenceb> sourcing parts makes you want to do code all day
[10:15] <Laurenceb> just when you think its all worked out you find something better and cheaper elsewhere :P
[10:16] <Laurenceb> I'm also debating AA vers lipo cells
[10:18] <Laurenceb> what would you go for?
[10:18] <edmoore> hrm
[10:18] <edmoore> well AA lithium energizers have always worked for us
[10:18] <edmoore> but we're nominally going for lipos for badger
[10:18] <edmoore> badger2 *
[10:19] <Laurenceb> I see
[10:19] <edmoore> though there's an arguement for sticking with energizers
[10:19] <Laurenceb> lipo is slightly worse for energy/weight
[10:19] <edmoore> but then that kind of logic means nasa are still fucking around with Disc-Gap-Band parachutes to land stuff on mars
[10:20] <Laurenceb> but better for current/weight
[10:20] <Laurenceb> I need about 2A peak for the S3152
[10:20] <Laurenceb> and according to the energizer datasheet thats ok
[10:21] <edmoore> that'd be fine I'm sure
[10:21] <Laurenceb> I took torque*turn rate * 3
[10:21] <edmoore> that sounds like a good judgement
[10:21] <Laurenceb> gives about 1.8A
[10:22] <Laurenceb> then 200ma for misc stuff (all my tronics is 110ma)
[10:22] <edmoore> some beefy caps about the place will help to
[10:23] <edmoore> over the power lines just behind the server connectors, I usually put them
[10:23] <edmoore> servo*
[10:36] <Laurenceb> ok
[10:38] <Laurenceb> I have some 671uF tantatalums
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[10:44] <edmoore> morning soneil
[10:44] <soneil> morning
[10:46] <edmoore> I don't see how people actually function with windows day to day
[10:47] <edmoore> I just had my computer lock up for 3 minutes as some sims were just about to finish (had it crashed properly, I would have lost hours worth of data) and it ended up being my virus checker delightfully informing me that it was doing a routine sweep and that I'd have to wait
[10:47] <edmoore> maddening
[10:50] <soneil> I subscribe to "ignore it and hope it goes away" with windows
[10:55] <Laurenceb> virus checks are like that
[10:55] <Laurenceb> once I was bidding on ebay and it happened
[10:57] <Laurenceb> right time to get to work, cya all
[10:59] <edmoore> cya
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[12:36] <SpikeUK> Afternoon!
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[13:10] <robert1971> Humm... Been looking at those temp sensors and noting is ever straight forward. We'll not if you want to go to -60. Any one had a go at this?
[13:11] <robert1971> I love mysql just inserted a million rows and it searches in less than a second. Good indexing though
[13:14] <robert1971> nothing*
[13:27] <edmoore> robert1971: not seen many simple digital ones that go to -60
[13:28] <edmoore> you could use a thermistor and do it the old-fashioned way
[13:32] <robert1971> I fancied that but apparently and i'm no electronics guru the avr chips like circuits with low output impedance ie about 5K ohms or less
[13:32] <robert1971> I'm quoting this from the AVR book not my knowledge
[13:33] <edmoore> for their ADCs?
[13:33] <robert1971> Now the thermistors I found are in the 30k - 100k ohm range. Yep for the ADC
[13:33] <edmoore> that's not a problem
[13:34] <edmoore> you can use a 'buffer amp' - an operation amplifier set up with unity feedback but with a near infinite input resistance, but very low output resistance
[13:34] <robert1971> Ok i'm listening. Farnells is down the road...
[13:35] <edmoore> very useful for meansuring high impedance signals. The issue is because ADCs use a capacitor internally to be charged up by the input source, and it takes too long to charge if the output current from th source is tiny
[13:35] <edmoore> ok, well than standard op-amp is the 741
[13:35] <robert1971> Losing me a bit there...
[13:35] <robert1971> Ahh thanks for the explain
[13:35] <edmoore> but there are litterally gazilions. but a 741 would work fine
[13:35] <robert1971> on farnell as we speak
[13:35] <edmoore> '741 op-amp' will get you there
[13:37] <robert1971> How does that look http://uk.farnell.com/1013815/semiconductors-integrated-circuits/product.us0?sku=fairchild-semiconductor-ka741
[13:38] <edmoore> but probably any of them will do for this ap - they come in all sorts of flavours, all to do with the 'gain bandwidth product' - if you same faster (a higher bandwidth) then the max gain you can get from it drops, and vice versa. so that gain x bandwidth always multiplies to the same value. it's a useful metric for op-amps, but at this scale anything will work
[13:38] <gordonjcp> since you're unlikely to be wanting very very fast rates of change...
[13:38] <edmoore> yep, perfect
[13:38] <edmoore> exactly - the GBP comes up when you want large gains at high speeds, say on an adsl modem
[13:38] <gordonjcp> damn near any opamp will do, because you're doing "easy" things with it
[13:39] <edmoore> you've got unity gain here (1) and you won't be sampling at more than 100Hz probably, and a GBP of 100 is piss-all
[13:39] <robert1971> This one suffers below 0 deg C will have a look for one that can survive the cold
[13:40] <edmoore> ok cool
[13:40] <edmoore> well, this is the circuit http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~dsculley/tutorial/opamps/opamps5.html
[13:40] <edmoore> I would recommend picking the other resisotr in the potential divider to be the resistance of the thermistor at -10 degrees ceclius
[13:41] <robert1971> Ok is that to give a linear scale?
[13:41] <edmoore> just as a random middling point - appologies if I'm teaching your granny to suck eggs, but you get the biggest change in voltage output for a change in resistance of one of th resistors, when the two resistors are matched
[13:41] <edmoore> it's not for linearity, but it is for resolution
[13:42] <edmoore> you will have to do an experiment to figure out the voltage vs temp curve for your set-up
[13:42] <robert1971> No this is all news to me
[13:42] <edmoore> frozen peas in water and kettles type stuff
[13:42] <robert1971> I hadn't held a soldering iron before this project :-)
[13:43] <edmoore> wow
[13:43] <robert1971> Scared !!!
[13:43] <edmoore> coming along pretty fast then
[13:43] <edmoore> do you know what a potential divider is?
[13:44] <edmoore> so I picked -10degrees C as probably the median temperature you'll be operating in - the centre-point of the range of temps you'll want to measure
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[13:45] <edmoore> hi SpikeUK
[13:46] <robert1971> sorry fielded a call
[13:47] <edmoore> np. this site, whilst light on maths, gives you an idea of the sort of thing you can expect to map adc readings to temperature http://www.ectinschools.org/page.php?ps=2&p=42
[13:49] <robert1971> Ok I'll get the components on the way home. I'm hoping to measure 3 temps. The external, internal and camera temp I guess I just buy 3 times the kit. I'll have a look for a multiple 741
[13:49] <edmoore> quad op-amps are common
[13:49] <robert1971> Thanks for the site that's the kind of level I need :-)
[13:50] <edmoore> well once you've understood this you'll have GCSE electronics under your belt
[13:51] <edmoore> but yeah, quad-op-amps are pretty common packages. I would keep all the 'second' resistors - the other ones in each divider, in the same place near the amp, so that they're all the same temperature
[13:51] <edmoore> as temp affects normal resistors too
[13:51] <robert1971> Thankfully I have had a few months of programming C under my belt or the AVC stuff would have killed the project. Out of interest the Camera control is now interrupt driven with timer0 counting seconds and timer1 doing PWM
[13:52] <edmoore> and if they're all the same temp, reasonable comparisons can be made between the readings
[13:52] <edmoore> robert1971: awesome
[13:52] <edmoore> well the rest is downhill
[13:52] <edmoore> once you get the NMEA parsed
[13:54] <robert1971> Getting it into the gumstix / avr is going to be the challenge. Apparently the lassen has 2 uarts so i may be able to send it to both at the same time
[13:54] <robert1971> Redundancy !!!
[13:56] <edmoore> they send different stuff
[13:57] <edmoore> the gain badnwidth product is, interestly, the reason why it's so hard to roll out braodband across the UK
[13:57] <edmoore> because the telegraph lines have large losses, common to any long length of cabling, instead of sending 100amps down the sender end so there is enough current at the receiver, instead the re-amplifier it every so often
[13:57] <edmoore> they*
[13:58] <edmoore> and the amps they use are old tech, and do not have the GBP to be able to amplifier the >8MHz signals (for 8Mbit broadband, say) with an acceptable gain.
[13:58] <edmoore> So it's a very expensive and lengthy process to upgrade all the infrastructure
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[14:07] <robert1971> I guess you learn't something in electronics then :)
[14:07] <robert1971> learnt*
[14:07] <ShellEvil> Err - no.
[14:08] <ShellEvil> The US has an amplified phone network - to some degree.
[14:08] <ShellEvil> The UK largely just uses copper.
[14:08] <ShellEvil> There are no amplifiers typically between the exchange and the consumer, apart from unusual cases like TPON - fibre.
[14:09] <edmoore> I guess i didn't! tho it was an american video
[14:09] <ShellEvil> Having said that - I have 6Km of wire from me to the exchange, and get 2.7M
[14:09] <ShellEvil> Which isn't bad at all.
[14:10] <ShellEvil> (though for really odd reasons, it drops to as low as 160K on occasions.
[14:10] <ShellEvil> Annoyingly those occasions are all at midnight-3AM, so it's guaranteed that no engineer will ever find them.
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[14:59] <edmoore> SpikeUK: so what's your gumstix + IMU for?
[15:06] <SpikeUK> Hi. We are looking at controlling baby helicopters ATM - developing the systems/technology/experience.
[15:09] <edmoore> oh fantastic
[15:09] <edmoore> do you mind if i ask who the 'we' is?
[15:11] <ShellEvil> OMG! It's the queen!
[15:12] <ShellEvil> :)
[15:12] <SpikeUK> 'We' are a large electronic company with interests in many fields
[15:14] <SpikeUK> But 'I' also have interests in many fields - I've been in electronics engineering for many, many years ;-)
[15:17] <ShellEvil> There are much better accelerometers than in sparkfun if you've got silly budget.
[15:17] <ShellEvil> (250/axis)
[15:18] <edmoore> SpikeUK: sounds great
[15:18] <edmoore> I've been in electronics for no time at all, yet. Just starting. But enjoying it.
[15:18] <ShellEvil> Since we seem to be doing this:
[15:19] <ShellEvil> I got interested at the age of 12, and have been unable to develop it as a career as I'd like due to health problems. Currently on disability benefit.
[15:19] <ShellEvil> Trying to develop stuff for sale.
[15:22] <edmoore> A real shame. Could build a balloon though!
[15:23] <SpikeUK> I will not own up to when I started to be interested in electronics, but when I went to college we learnt how to use valves (or 'tubes' in some parts). Good luck to you ShellEvil! Most 'communities" seem to develop informal support structures.
[15:24] <ShellEvil> I don't think I've actually ever touched (other than CRT and magnetron) tubes in anything.
[15:25] <SpikeUK> We do not have a "silly budget" - we are looking to see what can be achieved using "off the shelf" commercial bits.
[15:25] <ShellEvil> K. Just you can get a couple of orders of magnitude lower drift in accels, for a couple of orders of magnitude more money.
[15:25] <SpikeUK> ShellEvil - you don't know you are born ;-)
[15:25] <edmoore> crawley has quite a few tech firms doesn't it. I think Virgin Galactic are based there
[15:25] <ShellEvil> In some cases that is a good trade.
[15:25] <edmoore> though I don't imagine any actual 'tech' happens anywhere outside of mojave
[15:26] <ShellEvil> 40A MOSFET! 9p@100! Insane.
[15:26] <edmoore> and aeropia is around there iirc
[15:26] <SpikeUK> edmoore - keep guessing ;-)
[15:26] <ShellEvil> I have contemplated the 'unreasonably expensive guitar amp' route on ebay as a way of making money :)
[15:27] <ShellEvil> Valves are great for that.
[15:27] <edmoore> SpikeUK: oooh, a game. This is a good way of not working
[15:28] <edmoore> slumberger is crawley isn't it?
[15:28] <SpikeUK> ShellEvil - if you can prise money out of musicians you will be lucky ;-)
[15:28] <edmoore> however it's pronounced
[15:28] <edmoore> spelt*
[15:28] <edmoore> actually it's gatwick. That's where I've seen it
[15:28] <edmoore> hrm
[15:29] <SpikeUK> edmoore - (close enough) so I believe!
[15:29] <edmoore> was i right?
[15:29] <SpikeUK> edmoore - nope!
[15:30] <SpikeUK> But non-UK is right
[15:30] <ShellEvil> (What I really want to make is http://members.chello.nl/~h.dijkstra19/image/Braun1.jpg - take something like that, add deflection plates, make it in a beautiful mahogony case, and put an analog or digital clock/bluetooth text display on the face of it using concealed circuitry, with the cathode ray beam being visible in low-light.
[15:31] <ShellEvil> For that 1900s effect.
[15:33] <edmoore> SpikeUK: Thales?
[15:34] <SpikeUK> They don't make 'em like that any more - how about a portable valve MP3 player?
[15:34] <SpikeUK> edmoore - OK, it's a fair cop!
[15:34] <edmoore> I cheated and looked at your IP
[15:35] <edmoore> I'm working with TAS-Italia a lot for my job atm
[15:35] <ShellEvil> SpikeUK: Minatuer valves look boring.
[15:35] <ShellEvil> The big ones are lots cooler.
[15:35] <ShellEvil> (IMO)
[15:36] <SpikeUK> edmoore - So you know the kinds of stuff we are in to then
[15:36] <edmoore> uhuh
[15:36] <edmoore> Well, TAS anyway
[15:37] <edmoore> I guess you can't talk about most of it
[15:39] <SpikeUK> ShellEvil - true - but I always liked the EF50s in the red cans
[15:39] <SpikeUK> edmoore - not on-line in any case.
[15:39] <edmoore> indeed. These converstions are all logged
[15:40] <edmoore> I'm working on ExoMars EDLS in any case. And fun it is too, though a bit slow today.
[15:43] <SpikeUK> I know - how do you think I keep up ;-) - OK sounds interesting
[15:44] <SpikeUK> Off for coffee - bbs
[15:54] <SpikeUK> ...better!
[15:54] <edmoore> There is a filter coffee machine next to me
[15:54] <edmoore> when i start work earlier in the summer, i was buzzing after 3 mugs trying to keep up with the other guys
[15:55] <edmoore> now I have 9 a day and don't feel a thing off them
[15:55] <edmoore> I only feel it if i don't have one
[15:55] <edmoore> I think it's called addiction
[15:56] <edmoore> I have 3 weeks between job finishing and going back to uni to ween myself off
[15:56] <SpikeUK> ...better!
[15:57] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[15:57] <SpikeUK> Machine muck I'm afraid- we dream of filtered ;-)
[15:57] <edmoore> ha
[15:59] <SpikeUK> Gosh - just noticed time - will catch you from home later!
[15:59] <edmoore> blimey, last hour
[16:00] <edmoore> then PCB session
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[17:15] <jcoxon> afternoon
[17:16] <gordonjcp> hi
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[17:22] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[17:22] <edmoore> yo
[17:22] <jcoxon> i've returned from down south
[17:25] <edmoore> how was down south?
[17:26] <jcoxon> not bad at all
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[17:32] <robert1971> edmoore: That ECT site is very interesting. May have a go at a few things in there to bring the old knowledge up a bit
[17:32] <edmoore> indeed, has everything there
[17:33] <robert1971> Like you say lacking a bit on the math but nothing a GCSE book wouldn't sort out.
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[17:35] <robert1971> Time to call in at farnells
[17:36] <robert1971> Chat later when at home. edmore: may have a couple of questions later when I link this kit together ...
[17:37] <robert1971> *edmoore (will learn to type one day)
[17:38] <edmoore> ok cool
[17:38] <edmoore> will probs be around
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[17:39] <robert1971> TTFN
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[18:27] <edmoore> jcoxon_: hi
[18:27] <edmoore> every used busybox?
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[18:51] Action: ShellEvil ponders zoom on balloons.
[18:51] <ShellEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fujifilm-FinePix-S8000fd-Digital-Camera/dp/B000UUHL2K/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1219773060&sr=1-25
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[19:00] <kamaji> morning all
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[19:15] <jcoxon_> edmoore, yup
[19:15] <jcoxon_> lots of times
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[19:31] <jcoxon> evening edmoore_ and RocketBoy
[19:32] <RocketBoy> yo - anything new?
[19:32] <jcoxon> seen the panoramics?
[19:32] <jcoxon> apart from that nothing new
[19:33] <RocketBoy> yeah a couple of them - amazing - have those guys got NASA software?
[19:34] <jcoxon> no, it seems that they made some software to mosaic mars pics
[19:34] <jcoxon> but i think its all independent
[19:34] <RocketBoy> ah - ok
[19:35] <RocketBoy> I have ben writing the packet and rtty equivelent of sstvtx - comming along nicely - should have it done tonight
[19:35] <jcoxon> amazing
[19:35] <jcoxon> what do i need to do on this end?
[19:36] <RocketBoy> much easier than I thought
[19:36] <RocketBoy> a C ompiler and the sound card routines
[19:36] <RocketBoy> (the ones used by SSTVTX)
[19:37] <RocketBoy> gordoncp: I asked an old friend that used to work with me and the PDP11 was a PDP11/44 not 11/73
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[19:40] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, what about the changes to the sound card?
[19:41] <RocketBoy> gordoncp: but it was xenix, it was 256K bytes of memory - and we had 6 users writing programs
[19:41] <RocketBoy> and a make going at the same time
[19:42] <RocketBoy> jcoxon; - we need to check the sound card to see if its DC coupled
[19:42] <RocketBoy> (I suspect it is from the circuit diagram)
[19:42] <jcoxon> which will need a scope?
[19:43] <RocketBoy> I don't think so - I'll generate some sound files that you can try that have DC waveforms in them - put a DC meter on the output and you should see various voltage lievels
[19:43] <jcoxon> okay
[19:44] <RocketBoy> levels
[19:44] <jcoxon> and would this mean that we would be using ssb rather then FM?
[19:44] <RocketBoy> if not - then we get the cutters and soldering iron out
[19:44] <RocketBoy> yeah - we would have the option of either
[19:44] <jcoxon> i've got a spare audiostix board anyway to practice on
[19:45] <RocketBoy> the more exciting thing is it opens up the options of other protocols and modes
[19:49] <jcoxon> cool cool
[19:49] <jcoxon> well when every you are ready i'm armed with my DC meter
[19:51] <RocketBoy> np
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[19:53] <jcoxon> just investigating the reason for the loss of packet radio
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[19:53] <jcoxon> seems like there were no shorts out on the coax
[19:57] <RocketBoy> is it working now?
[19:57] <jcoxon> yup
[19:58] <RocketBoy> perhaps the process just stopped?
[19:58] <jcoxon> could have
[19:58] <jcoxon> the gumstix carried on as we have the gps logs
[19:58] <jcoxon> a little suspicious of my connection between the gumstix and the radio
[19:58] <jcoxon> going to re make it
[19:59] <jcoxon> then do some testing
[19:59] <RocketBoy> Presumably the transmitter is keyed on by e GPIO line?
[19:59] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:59] <RocketBoy> becuse the carrier was really in evidance either
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[20:00] <RocketBoy> (I thought i heard somthing weak - but it could have been anything)
[20:00] <jcoxon> we did as well
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[20:00] <RocketBoy> but not when we got up close
[20:00] <jcoxon> no
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[20:01] <RocketBoy> si suspect the carrier was not the payload - just general crap on radio
[20:01] <RocketBoy> best to run it and see if it packs up after a bit
[20:02] <jcoxon> what sort of range should this get?
[20:02] <jcoxon> if near to the ground
[20:02] <jcoxon> so that i know how far to test it from
[20:05] <RocketBoy> a hundred meters or so at least (depending on brick walls etc)
[20:05] Action: jcoxon has a tall tree in then garden...
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[20:11] <robert1971> edmoore: Those bloody thermistors are small
[20:11] <edmoore> :)
[20:11] <robert1971> I'm sure the hair on my neather regions is thicker
[20:12] <robert1971> Enought of that.. I'm going to hack up a divider on the bread board
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[20:55] <edmoore> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/blog1.php/2008/08/26/haps-1-360-degree-panorama-2nd-version
[20:56] <edmoore> jcoxon:
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[21:00] <natrium42> hi
[21:10] <natrium42> jcoxon, are there any pics yet?
[21:10] <natrium42> the panorama is great, btw
[21:12] <edmoore> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/blog1.php/2008/08/26/haps-1-360-degree-panorama-2nd-version
[21:15] <natrium42> oh, i haven't seen the circular projection
[21:15] <natrium42> that's incredible!
[21:21] <natrium42> edmoore, i need a bigger screen :)
[21:21] <edmoore> ha
[21:21] <edmoore> yep
[21:21] <natrium42> 1920x1200 is not enough
[21:21] <edmoore> Need an A1 printer really
[21:21] <natrium42> yeah, print a nice poster
[21:22] <edmoore> if we get a similar one (I have a plan involving a pan/tilt on the payload deck) then it'll definitely be worth spending some £££ on a massive poster version
[21:22] <edmoore> well, ££
[21:22] <edmoore> where the first £ < 3
[21:22] <natrium42> hehe
[21:27] <edmoore> so I'm slightly blown away by the photography on this mission
[21:27] <edmoore> pretty shit hot
[21:28] <natrium42> canon :)
[21:28] <edmoore> ha
[21:28] <edmoore> it's more the photoshoppery that's hooked me
[21:28] <edmoore> but chdk is pretty sweet
[21:28] <natrium42> edmoore, night launch plz
[21:29] <natrium42> :D
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[21:31] <natrium42> ethernetfail
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[21:33] <edmoore> natrium42: yup
[21:33] <edmoore> physical layer interface anomalies
[21:33] <edmoore> i tripped over the cable
[21:35] <natrium42> lol
[21:35] <ShellEvil> That's why wifi is clearly superior.
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[21:53] <jcoxon> hey guys
[21:57] <SpikeUK> Hi jcoxon!
[21:57] <jcoxon> hey SpikeUK
[21:58] <jcoxon> edmoore, you mentioned about hte corkscrewing - check out the gps track - it corkscrews nicely
[21:58] <edmoore> I have!
[21:58] <edmoore> really noticed it
[21:58] <SpikeUK> Hi edmoore!
[21:58] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:58] <edmoore> hi SpikeUK
[21:59] <edmoore> this is why I'm keen to try this ringslot, despite it being a pig to manufacture
[21:59] <edmoore> really good data though on that kml
[22:00] <jcoxon> yeah, the ublox worked wel
[22:01] <jcoxon> well*
[22:01] <edmoore> this is great jcoxon http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00d62qx/
[22:02] <jcoxon> will watch it later :-)
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[22:06] <ShellEvil> http://flickr.com/photos/daedalus-/2212389616/ (that camera I was musing on earlier).
[22:06] <ShellEvil> (not mine)
[22:07] <jcoxon> edmoore, looking back at that corkscrew trace - would love to have seen that land
[22:07] <Fnoble> RocketBoy, any chance of getting a 1.5 from you before Friday?
[22:07] <edmoore> well parachute stability is almost entirely a function of porosity
[22:07] <edmoore> and parachutes become stable at about 22% porosity (geometrically, ignoring the porosity of the material)
[22:08] <RocketBoy> fnoble: sure - post or collect?
[22:08] <edmoore> so basically, if you cut a bunch of holes in your chute, it will become stable
[22:09] <Fnoble> post if pos
[22:09] <SpikeUK> ShellEvil - nice pic - thanks for link
[22:09] <ShellEvil> I'm idly wondering about cams to use for massive panoramas.
[22:09] <jcoxon> wow
[22:09] <jcoxon> forecast traj for friday
[22:10] <jcoxon> haha 16km along the ground, 30km up
[22:11] <Fnoble> :)
[22:13] <Fnoble> RocketBoy, can you post one on the fastest postage tomorrow for us then?
[22:14] <edmoore> Fnoble: i'm not getting any PMs if you're trying
[22:14] <RocketBoy> probably - I'll check if i have a suitable box - email me with your desired addy
[22:15] <jcoxon> Fnoble, if not i'm coming up to Cam on thurs - if you are really nice to me...
[22:15] <Fnoble> We -no on phone
[22:15] <Fnoble> Will be on proper after pub
[22:15] <edmoore> ok
[22:16] <edmoore> did you get to ex today?
[22:17] <Fnoble> We got 9 I'm film yes
[22:17] <Fnoble> 9 k m
[22:17] <edmoore> cool
[22:17] <Fnoble> No weld head
[22:17] <edmoore> any room left in the room?
[22:17] <Fnoble> Yeah room is huge
[22:18] <edmoore> other room
[22:18] <edmoore> ok just for my info - friday launch poss?
[22:18] <Fnoble> Jcoxon, yes?
[22:18] <jcoxon> as in i could pick it up from RocketBoy
[22:19] <jcoxon> and bring it up
[22:19] <Fnoble> Yeah going for fro
[22:19] <edmoore> time?
[22:20] <Fnoble> M
[22:20] <Fnoble> Depends on weather
[22:20] <Fnoble> 10am?
[22:20] <edmoore> ok. if you feel like doing proper early, you have a car
[22:21] <edmoore> i.e. 7am
[22:21] <edmoore> will have it picked up by 10am (says he)
[22:21] <Fnoble> 7am finish?
[22:21] <edmoore> and i can be back at work for after lunch
[22:21] <edmoore> no, 7am launch
[22:21] <edmoore> i *need* to be in the office for a few hours on Friday, but could grab the morning
[22:22] <Fnoble> Ok will keep you posters
[22:22] <edmoore> alternatively 3pm launch - after lunch
[22:23] <Fnoble> Irc while walking is dangerous
[22:23] <Fnoble> Walked into a plow
[22:24] <Fnoble> Pole
[22:24] <edmoore> tart
[22:24] <Fnoble> So I will go
[22:24] <Fnoble> Bye
[22:25] <edmoore> cya
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[22:26] <robert1971> edmoore: are those thin wires attached to the thermistor insulated. They're copper in color
[22:26] <robert1971> colur
[22:26] <robert1971> colour even
[22:27] <edmoore> not sure - multimeter?
[22:27] <robert1971> no
[22:28] <robert1971> Why didn't I think of that
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[22:36] <RocketBoy> bugg*r I packed it up
[22:51] <gordonjcp> robert1971: probably not, if it's just like a "glass bead" thermistor
[22:58] <ShellEvil> IME, copper coloured wires attached to most things will be insulated usually.
[22:58] <ShellEvil> Copper oxidises rapidly.
[22:58] <ShellEvil> So it's going to be enamelled.
[23:05] <Laurenceb> hello
[23:05] Action: Laurenceb just got back
[23:10] <Laurenceb> wow that panorama is amazing
[23:10] <Laurenceb> pity theres so many clouds
[23:11] <Laurenceb> I've finished the rogallo enclosure - at least made one thats half decent after about 3 attempts
[23:11] <ShellEvil> :)
[23:11] <Laurenceb> really could have done with a hot wire cutter
[23:11] <ShellEvil> Easy enough to make.
[23:12] <Laurenceb> using a hacksaw blade and sandpaper is a pain, and the surface needs sealing
[23:12] <Laurenceb> yeah I'll get some nicrome
[23:12] <Laurenceb> I'll paint it with some resin or maybe exterior grade pva
[23:12] <ShellEvil> polystyrene?
[23:12] <Laurenceb> to seal it where its sanded
[23:13] <Laurenceb> no blue foam
[23:13] <ShellEvil> A really sharp narrow bladed knife can work lots better and give a good finish.
[23:13] <Laurenceb> yeah I discovered that in the process :P
[23:14] <Laurenceb> I've finally worked out how to make an airtight door - use the plastic off milk cartons
[23:14] <ShellEvil> :)
[23:14] <Laurenceb> then epoxy it into the edge
[23:14] <Laurenceb> and cut a fine groove into the door
[23:15] <Laurenceb> works really well, so I should get a fairly airtight enclosure now - enough so that draughts aren't a significant heat loss
[23:15] <ShellEvil> Just not too airtight :)
[23:15] <Laurenceb> haha
[23:15] <Laurenceb> there will be holes for the lines from the winch servo
[23:16] <Laurenceb> and and rs232 port in the top
[23:16] <Laurenceb> *an
[23:16] <Laurenceb> unfortunately my local hardware shop no longer sells fiberglass kits
[23:17] <Laurenceb> so I cant overwrap it
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[23:17] <Laurenceb> well theres always ebay but its going to extremes anyway :D
[23:18] <Laurenceb> I'm still not sure about batteries... lipo or AA photo lithium
[23:18] <Laurenceb> will 2 lipo cells likely fry a servo?
[23:18] <ShellEvil> No idea.
[23:19] <Laurenceb> futaba S3152
[23:19] <Laurenceb> brb
[23:19] <ShellEvil> pin: and if someone is called to one of your sheds that's on fire?
[23:19] <ShellEvil> oops
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[23:26] <Laurenceb> RocketBoy: any good with servos?
[23:27] <RocketBoy> i have played with a few
[23:27] <RocketBoy> edmoore is the expert
[23:28] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:28] <Laurenceb> come back edmoore :P
[23:28] <RocketBoy> what did you want to know
[23:29] <Laurenceb> trying to work out this futaba S3152 servo... if it'll be fried by 2 lipo cells and if its 180 degree rotation range
[23:29] <Laurenceb> most servos seem to be 180 degree
[23:29] <Laurenceb> brb
[23:33] <RocketBoy> 7.5V seems a bit high
[23:33] <RocketBoy> http://www.geocities.com/bourbonstreet/3220/servobasics.html
[23:34] <RocketBoy> which says "I consider 7V as a safe maximum. RC servos "
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[23:36] <RocketBoy> As you say most servos are 180degree - although the winch servos can be a bit more (I have some 1 and 3 turn winch servos)
[23:37] <RocketBoy> hi ed - laurenceb wants to know if 2 lipos will fry a futaba S3152 servo
[23:37] <RocketBoy> edmoore
[23:38] <edmoore> is it digital?
[23:39] <edmoore> yes
[23:40] <edmoore> i would be cautious
[23:40] <edmoore> but also, digitals suck a lot more current their analogues
[23:41] <edmoore> i've never driven digitals above 7.2, so I wouldn't like to say
[23:41] <edmoore> but they did handle 7.2 fine
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[23:49] <fnoble> hello
[23:49] <RocketBoy> hi fnoble - so i should give the balloon to jcoxon
[23:49] <RocketBoy> ?
[23:50] <fnoble> i dont know, jcoxon, did you say you were coming into cambridge anyway?
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[23:52] <fnoble> RocketBoy, does jcoxon live near you?
[23:52] <RocketBoy> ish
[23:53] <RocketBoy> about 25mi
[23:53] <fnoble> was he suggesting making a special trip?
[23:53] <fnoble> i could only see the chat 1 line at a time :)
[23:53] <RocketBoy> I don't know - we were thinking of meeting up to do some testing
[23:55] <RocketBoy> Oh well must away - let me know what you want to do by email - I'll look tomorrow morning
[23:55] <fnoble> ok, well ill talk to james i dont want tp put him out
[23:55] <RocketBoy> np - night
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[23:56] <fnoble> jcoxon, ping ping
[00:00] --- Wed Aug 27 2008