highaltitude.log.20080825

[00:00] <fnoble> ShellEvil, yeah, we lost edmoore
[00:00] <fnoble> he fought valiantly
[00:01] <ShellEvil> The black sky ones look nice.
[00:01] <ShellEvil> I suppose you could get altitude from georectification of the photos.
[00:01] <ShellEvil> one
[00:02] <fnoble> ShellEvil, we have tried that in the past and the errors turn out to be large
[00:02] <fnoble> but that log was just dougs gps which wasnt a good one for high alt
[00:03] <ShellEvil> It'd only work if you can work out accurate rectification points, and a good lens model.
[00:03] <fnoble> the main one on the flight computer should go to the full alt
[00:03] <ShellEvil> Oh - there were two GPSs?
[00:03] <fnoble> ShellEvil, like i say we tried it and the errors were like +/- 1km per pixel in the image
[00:03] <fnoble> or something stupid
[00:04] <fnoble> yeah, the one doug posted was a small satandalone off the shelf tracker
[00:04] <ShellEvil> Ah.
[00:04] <fnoble> but with an alt capped gps
[00:04] <ShellEvil> Is there a list of alt capped / non alt capped?
[00:04] <fnoble> jcoxon will be home before long
[00:05] <fnoble> ShellEvil, not a list that i know of but if you ask in here between us we have tried most chipsets
[00:05] <fnoble> this one had a sirf 2 i think, which is known not to work
[00:07] <fnoble> i think this one has a good change of going really high
[00:07] <fnoble> the payload was lighter than nova6/7 and the amount of free lift want tooo much more
[00:07] <fnoble> i reckon 30km+
[00:07] <ShellEvil> :)
[00:07] <fnoble> the photos look like they are high!
[00:08] <fnoble> andyhhp, looked at the photos and vid?
[00:08] <andyhhp> ah
[00:08] <andyhhp> found them now
[00:09] <fnoble> this is deffo the best set of photos/vids i know of
[00:09] <akawaka> url?
[00:10] <fnoble> as the camera was decent, and had a proper lens made of glass! :)
[00:10] <fnoble> akawaka, http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=c53d9f3023857423c0ff8b4d8294005c&showtopic=5369&st=30
[00:10] <fnoble> some on that thread
[00:10] <fnoble> akawaka, i think doug had to get to sleep before he could upload the full set
[00:10] <fnoble> its 4 gigs
[00:11] <fnoble> am sure they willbe up tomorrow
[00:12] <andyhhp> thats a cool vid
[00:17] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[00:18] <jcoxon> haha
[00:18] <jcoxon> i have returned
[00:18] <fnoble> jcoxon, hello!
[00:18] <fnoble> get that usb hub out, i want to know how high you got!
[00:19] <fnoble> doug's log cut out at 23.9km and came back in 33mins later at 23.9km again
[00:19] <fnoble> so it could have gone quite high
[00:19] <akawaka> nice work guys
[00:19] <akawaka> black sky picture is awesome
[00:21] <fnoble> gordonjcp, did you hear any of the flight on your radio?
[00:23] <jcoxon> 1,152911.00,52.397731,0.850583,32337.4M,16.077,128.51
[00:23] <fnoble> wow
[00:24] <akawaka> 32337 meters?
[00:24] <ShellEvil> :)
[00:24] <fnoble> thats awesome, nice work guys
[00:25] <ShellEvil> Wow!
[00:25] <ShellEvil> The video proves that there are steam-trains at altitude!
[00:26] <jcoxon> most importantly it proves that ublox work at altitude
[00:27] <ShellEvil> Yep.
[00:32] <jcoxon> also the gumstix worked through out the flight
[00:33] <jcoxon> even though the radio was stuffed
[00:34] <fnoble> yeah, im sure the radio was working most of the time
[00:34] <fnoble> it was just the limitation of packet radio at such low power
[00:36] <akawaka> what software were you using at the base station to receive?
[00:36] <jcoxon> truetty
[00:36] <fnoble> akawaka, i was trying to get it with multimon but that was even worse
[00:36] iainw (i=540c89f8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3cc92f3a0c45466c) joined #highaltitude.
[00:37] <fnoble> hi iain
[00:37] <akawaka> okay, so you could see the raw packet data
[00:37] <akawaka> i was worried you guys were just using soundmodem or something
[00:37] <fnoble> akawaka, no i didnt know there was any software to do that?
[00:38] <fnoble> akawaka, what encoding does it use below the ax25?
[00:38] <iainw> hi! damn this slow internet connection, I want to see the photos!
[00:38] <fnoble> http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=c53d9f3023857423c0ff8b4d8294005c&showtopic=5369&st=30
[00:38] <iainw> great job on finding the payload guys, how easy was it?
[00:38] <fnoble> at the bottom of the page
[00:38] <iainw> you had me worried about 5mins after launch!
[00:38] <fnoble> iainw, not very easy at all
[00:39] <akawaka> fnoble: i mean, you weren't relying on receiving a fully complete packet with no errors
[00:39] <fnoble> iainw, we were very lucky, we triangluated from a few points quite far appart and ed managed to pick a point to try where we managed to hear the payload on the ground
[00:39] <fnoble> iainw, less than 2km away probably
[00:40] <fnoble> iainw, when we triangulated before each of us had like 10degrees of error minimum, and a 10km baseline, so we were very lucky
[00:40] <iainw> sweet, I just saw the vid and have the first inch of the photo, awesome stuff
[00:40] <fnoble> even when we were really close it still took hours to home in on
[00:41] <fnoble> akawaka, im not sure how truetty works but i think that might have been the case with multimon
[00:41] SpeedEvil (n=djjfjf@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[00:41] <fnoble> akawaka, at least we only ever got fully formed packets through
[00:41] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:haps:haps-1:biglog
[00:42] <jcoxon> prize for the first kml
[00:42] <akawaka> fnoble: so no raw character stream?
[00:42] <fnoble> nope
[00:43] <akawaka> thats a shame, a single wrong bit will invalidate a ax25 packet
[00:43] <fnoble> akawaka, but even still, using fm instead of ssb the signal was lost in the noise within half an hour of launch at least
[00:44] <akawaka> gotcha
[00:44] <iainw> congrats on finding it guys, let me know when more photos are up. Sleep for me...
[00:44] <fnoble> iainw, see you tomorrow
[00:44] <jcoxon> hmmm photos might take a while
[00:44] <jcoxon> as i don't have a copy :-p
[00:44] <jcoxon> but i have the webspace
[00:44] <fnoble> iainw, sorry to hear about rob :)
[00:45] <iainw> yep, we suspect suspect bbq food. He was a lot better at the end of today so should be ok for tomorrow.
[00:45] <fnoble> ok cool
[00:45] <iainw> we may not be driving across the country to get balloon film though..
[00:46] <fnoble> nope sure thing
[00:47] iainw (i=540c89f8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3cc92f3a0c45466c) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[00:47] <fnoble> anyone working on the kml? if not i will do it
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> me
[00:48] <jcoxon> shouldn't be too difficult :-p
[00:49] <SpeedEvil> Though if someone's got the script already
[00:51] <jcoxon> nah i don't have a script set up
[00:54] <robert1971> Congrats jcoxon and team
[00:55] <jcoxon> :-)
[00:55] <jcoxon> though it didn't go to plan, at all
[00:55] <fnoble> have kml i win
[00:55] <robert1971> I know I watch about 6 hours this morning
[00:55] <fnoble> where shall i upload it?
[00:55] <jcoxon> no prize till its posted
[00:55] <jcoxon> ummm email me it
[00:56] <jcoxon> i'll wack it on the wiki
[00:56] <jcoxon> jacoxon@googlemail.com
[00:56] <robert1971> Learnt that prefight checks are worth doing properly
[00:56] <jcoxon> best have a payload that works well before the launch day
[00:56] <jcoxon> don't add any features at teh last minute
[00:56] <jcoxon> and test test test
[00:57] <robert1971> Got my processing working of interrups now :)
[00:57] <jcoxon> :-)
[00:57] <SpeedEvil> meh
[00:57] <SpeedEvil> I needed that prize!
[00:57] <SpeedEvil> How else am I going to feed the gerbils!
[00:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:58] <fnoble> emalied
[00:58] <robert1971> Teathered flight due in next 7 days
[00:58] <SpeedEvil> At least I know know gpsbabels unicsv filter.
[00:58] <fnoble> ShellEvil, python is the way foreward
[00:59] <fnoble> 3 lines excluding printing the kml header and footer
[00:59] <SpeedEvil> No it isn't.
[00:59] <SpeedEvil> If I knew kml, I could do it in one line of awk.
[00:59] <fnoble> ShellEvil, the header and footer are several lines each :p
[00:59] Action: SpeedEvil never presses CR to win!
[01:00] <SpeedEvil> Actually - gpsbabel is one line, and knows the footers
[01:00] <jcoxon> oh no
[01:00] <jcoxon> error in that log
[01:00] <fnoble> oh sorry
[01:00] <jcoxon> fixed
[01:00] <fnoble> i lose
[01:01] <fnoble> what was the error?
[01:01] <jcoxon> to many headers at the bottom
[01:01] <jcoxon> also one point is out
[01:02] <fnoble> oh silly me
[01:02] <fnoble> pressed ctrlc twice
[01:02] <fnoble> pha
[01:03] <fnoble> i dont have google earth here to test ip
[01:03] <jcoxon> also left the 0.000 0.0000 at burst
[01:03] <jcoxon> when the gps resets
[01:04] <fnoble> sorry, was coding against the clock
[01:04] <robert1971> jcoxon: I'm going to need to know a bit about radio beacons before launch. Any pointers on how to get / make beacon and how to track said beacon?
[01:04] <jcoxon> right, kml on the wiki
[01:05] <jcoxon> robert1971, there are quite a few ways to make a beacon
[01:05] <jcoxon> tracking them really requires 2 radios and yagis
[01:05] <jcoxon> shall chat tomrrow - sleep time
[01:05] <fnoble> ok, night
[01:05] <robert1971> 2 true Night night and well done
[01:05] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left #highaltitude.
[01:05] <fnoble> robert1971, you want to make a beacon to use for triangulation? or to transmit gps?
[01:08] JTN (i=52473466@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-18267d0d9784c789) joined #highaltitude.
[01:08] <jcoxon> night all
[01:08] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[01:08] JTN (i=52473466@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-18267d0d9784c789) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[01:09] <fnoble> ok, sleep forme too
[01:10] Nick change: fnoble -> fnoble|away
[01:23] gleblanc (n=gleblanc@75.108.34.76) joined #highaltitude.
[01:39] natrium42 (n=alexei@nmd.sbx00565.paloaca.wayport.net) joined #highaltitude.
[01:40] <natrium42> hi
[01:41] andyhhp (n=chatzill@amc96.quns.cam.ac.uk) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]"
[01:42] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[01:42] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[02:07] Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) joined #highaltitude.
[04:40] natrium42 (n=alexei@nmd.sbx00565.paloaca.wayport.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[04:42] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[04:42] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) joined #highaltitude.
[05:10] borism (n=boris@195-50-205-117-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[06:13] SpikeUK (i=568f9629@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-98873d263b3efb29) joined #highaltitude.
[06:17] SpikeUK (i=568f9629@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-98873d263b3efb29) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[06:54] borism (n=boris@194.126.108.2) joined #highaltitude.
[07:06] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude.
[07:21] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) left irc: "Lost terminal"
[07:29] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: "Leaving"
[07:40] SpikeUK (i=568f9629@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e63be53d247d51e8) joined #highaltitude.
[07:45] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[07:46] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[07:55] natrium42 (n=alexei@rescomp-conf-08-10043.Stanford.EDU) joined #highaltitude.
[08:24] <gordonjcp> fnoble|away: nothing
[08:32] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude.
[08:34] Shanuson (n=kasei@pD9E6E772.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[08:54] natrium (n=alexei@rescomp-conf-08-10043.Stanford.EDU) joined #highaltitude.
[08:54] natrium42 (n=alexei@rescomp-conf-08-10043.Stanford.EDU) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[09:10] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[09:20] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:22] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:24] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[09:25] <robert1971> jcoxon: You're not up allready sre you?
[09:26] <jcoxon> yup
[09:29] <jcoxon> bbiab
[09:29] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[09:50] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:51] <SpikeUK> .
[09:52] <natrium> ,
[09:52] <natrium> jcoxon, congrats on the successful retrieval
[09:52] <jcoxon> hey guys
[09:53] <jcoxon> pah, everyrhing didn't work!
[09:53] <jcoxon> but in the end old school foxhunting saved the day
[09:53] <natrium> but you will fix it up and fly again
[09:53] <jcoxon> sort of
[09:53] <jcoxon> will need some changes
[09:53] <natrium> you think there's an intrinsic problem?
[09:54] <jcoxon> perhaps
[09:54] <jcoxon> the usb hub
[09:55] <SpikeUK> USB hub?
[09:57] <SpikeUK> How can a USB hub be a weak link?
[09:57] <gordonjcp> crappy connectors?
[09:58] <jcoxon> power issues
[09:58] fnobler (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7b1cb115565b8cb3) joined #highaltitude.
[09:58] <jcoxon> teh gps and gsm work off the usb hub
[10:00] <SpikeUK> Mind you, I suppose standard electronics are not really speced to work at that altitude/temperature etc
[10:00] <jcoxon> usb is not the best embedded bus to use
[10:01] <jcoxon> its also a lot more complicated then perhaps necessary
[10:01] <gordonjcp> don't the gps and gsm have serial ports?
[10:01] <jcoxon> usuall yes
[10:01] <jcoxon> but the new ones also have usb lines
[10:01] <jcoxon> and these are what were wired up on the goliath
[10:01] <gordonjcp> seems like an overcomplication, going from serial to USB to a USB hub and back to serial
[10:02] <jcoxon> exactly
[10:02] <jcoxon> the goliathi is definitely a board for making homebrew iphones
[10:02] natrium (n=alexei@rescomp-conf-08-10043.Stanford.EDU) left irc:
[10:03] <jcoxon> the gpsstix is a lot better daughter board
[10:03] <jcoxon> same gps on a serial port
[10:03] <jcoxon> all the other serial ports and gpios brought out
[10:03] <jcoxon> soundcard for the radio
[10:03] <SpikeUK> USB is great at what it's designed for. Are you having problems with battery power failing at low temps?
[10:03] <jcoxon> and also one usb host port
[10:03] <jcoxon> SpikeUK, don't think so
[10:04] <jcoxon> the gumstix worked through out hte flight (hence the gps log)
[10:04] <jcoxon> energizer lithiums are pretty good
[10:04] <SpikeUK> Really? Are you logging temp?
[10:04] fnobler (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7b1cb115565b8cb3) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[10:06] <jcoxon> not this flight
[10:08] <SpikeUK> OK. But you have a feel for the temps at the target alt?
[10:10] <jcoxon> outside yeah
[10:10] <SpikeUK> Sorry James - no more ?s from me - I'll leave you alone...
[10:10] <jcoxon> -40C
[10:10] <jcoxon> haha
[10:10] <jcoxon> there is some data on teh wiki certainly
[10:31] <gordonjcp> any pics?
[10:32] <jcoxon> being uploaded as we speak
[10:32] <gordonjcp> cool
[10:33] <jcoxon> but a taster: http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=15376
[10:36] <gordonjcp> nice
[10:39] <gordonjcp> it would be interesting to try and tie in weather satellite pics with the cloud cover in the balloon pics
[10:42] <jcoxon> yeah that would be cool
[10:43] <gordonjcp> www.sat.dundee.ac.uk
[11:00] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:03] G8KHW (n=Steve@217.47.75.27) joined #highaltitude.
[11:03] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc: Client Quit
[11:04] <jcoxon> morning G8KHW
[11:04] <G8KHW> hiya
[11:04] <G8KHW> did you manage to get a log form the flight yesterday?
[11:04] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:05] <jcoxon> yup
[11:05] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:haps:haps-1:biglog
[11:05] <jcoxon> 32337M
[11:06] <jcoxon> the gumstix actually worked throughout the flight
[11:06] <G8KHW> ooo 106K ft - thats good
[11:15] fnoble (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-df5dd5091958f966) joined #highaltitude.
[11:15] <G8KHW> any pics up yet?
[11:16] <fnoble> G8KHW: only a couple, i cant remember the link
[11:16] <fnoble> they are posted on a thread on the UMSF forum
[11:18] <jcoxon> doug is about to upload them
[11:18] <G8KHW> spiffing
[11:20] <edmoore> jcoxon: morning
[11:20] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[11:20] <jcoxon> drive back okay?
[11:20] <edmoore> anyone: how tdo you view umsf in a sane w3ay?
[11:20] <edmoore> yes, a bit touch and go
[11:24] <G8KHW> Say - I enjoyed DFing (Direction Finding) HAPS1 so much I think we should do all flights that way
[11:25] <jcoxon> haha
[11:27] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[11:28] <jcoxon> G8KHW, perhaps we should do both
[11:30] <G8KHW> Yeah - always carry a beacon
[11:30] <jcoxon> have a DF team that don't have the real data, see who gets there first
[11:30] <jcoxon> perhaps a longer pulse to help with the sweeps
[11:31] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php/missions:haps:log.kml.zip?id=missions%3Ahaps%3Ahaps-1&cache=cache
[11:31] <G8KHW> I think it really help that it landed with the beacon antenna well above the ground
[11:31] <jcoxon> kml of the flight
[11:31] <jcoxon> certainly have the beacon facing up
[11:32] <G8KHW> yeah a linger pulse would - especially if we used the phase shift tracker I was talking about
[11:32] <G8KHW> longer
[11:33] <jcoxon> we'd need to be more organised next time though
[11:34] <jcoxon> fnoble, do you have the coords where we did the sweeps
[11:34] <jcoxon> would be cool to put on the kml how we found it
[11:36] <G8KHW> funny - I just emailed fnoble about the loactions - I was going to write a few lines on the wiki about it.
[11:37] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:39] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:50] <edmoore> Hi all
[11:50] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[11:50] <G8KHW> hi edmoore
[11:50] <edmoore> morning!
[11:50] <edmoore> Feeling a bit more refreshed now than last night
[11:50] <edmoore> jcoxon: so infact everyone worked grand, it was just pure bandwidth vs range physics that got the fm?
[11:52] <edmoore> G8KHW: I agree about direction finding
[11:52] <jcoxon> i think something might be up with the radio
[11:53] <jcoxon> i'm going to take it apart, rebuild it and test it again
[11:53] <G8KHW> edmoore: it was well fun
[11:53] <jcoxon> cause the gumstix was logging for the whole flight so it hasn't crashed
[11:53] <jcoxon> so soundmodem should have been working
[11:54] <gordonjcp> wonder what it would cost to licence a more powerful TX?
[11:54] <edmoore> It was a bit fun, as I didn't have any google earth cache of the area and there was no road atlas (james!?) I only had the ruler option on GE, no place names
[11:54] <edmoore> jcoxon: how far was it from that initial airport guess in the end?
[11:54] <fnoble> jcoxon, what camera was doug using?
[11:54] <jcoxon> also going to look into my antenna,
[11:54] <edmoore> haha, fnoble guess what I'm looking at too
[11:55] <jcoxon> a650
[11:55] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: what are you using for an antenna?
[11:56] <jcoxon> it was a 1/4 wave with a ground plane
[11:56] <jcoxon> but
[11:56] <jcoxon> i'm a little suspicious of the sma connector - perhaps not perfectly crimped
[11:57] <jcoxon> if the antenna was bust we'd still get data if we were near to the payload (hence when testing on the ground before launch)
[11:58] <gordonjcp> yeah
[11:58] <gordonjcp> < a few dozen metres, anyway
[11:58] <jcoxon> just running a wyoming analysis of the flight to compare to the flight
[11:59] <G8KHW> yeah - funny it landed very near the prediction from 6am Saturday data
[11:59] <jcoxon> wow, its pretty perfect
[11:59] <jcoxon> but descends at a faster rate
[12:00] <jcoxon> its about 17km from the forecast site
[12:00] <jcoxon> and 26km from the airport
[12:00] <G8KHW> i would be really nice if the UW people added ascent and descent rates to the predictor
[12:01] <fnoble> G8KHW, we are working on prediction code that has that option
[12:02] <fnoble> weve got it working as a commandline program but it could be made easier to use, and want to make a web interface for it
[12:08] <Crofton> jcoxon, the picture is wonderful
[12:09] <jcoxon> doug is uploading all the pics now
[12:09] <jcoxon> its going to take a bit of time
[12:11] <jcoxon> :-D
[12:11] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/HAPS1/videos/MVI_6734.AVI
[12:14] fnoble (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-df5dd5091958f966) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[12:15] <edmoore> jcoxon: good capture!
[12:26] <edmoore> jcoxon, G8KHW looking at the last prediction and the actual kml
[12:27] robert_1971_ (i=568d0973@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8e0ad08ffff621b2) joined #highaltitude.
[12:27] <edmoore> apart from being slightly more westerly winds rather than south westerly, the flight profiles up to burst are almost identical
[12:27] <edmoore> the descent was much faster as we predicted
[12:28] <gordonjcp> do you detect atmospheric pressure to measure altitude?
[12:28] <gordonjcp> or do you just go with the GPS?
[12:29] <ShellEvil> GPS
[12:31] <gordonjcp> it's a shame the sstv didn't work
[12:31] <robert_1971_> Did you have video running all the time
[12:32] <robert_1971_> Is there a link to the pictures from yesterday?
[12:32] <jcoxon> they are being upload right now
[12:33] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: can you use the 458MHz band for telemetry?
[12:34] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@host86-133-69-206.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:34] <Laurenceb> hi everyone
[12:34] Action: Laurenceb has photos from yesterday
[12:34] <ShellEvil> :)
[12:34] <Laurenceb> anywhere to put them up?
[12:35] <ShellEvil> 4chan!
[12:35] <ShellEvil> /b/
[12:35] <ShellEvil> _really_ confuse them.
[12:35] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, get a flickr account?
[12:35] <gordonjcp> ShellEvil: heh
[12:35] <jcoxon> gordonjcp, is that to get out of noisy 434 band?
[12:36] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: well that, and you can run 500mW apparently
[12:36] <gordonjcp> that might eat your batteries, though
[12:36] <jcoxon> sadly the rules for aerial radio is different
[12:36] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/communication:licence_exempt
[12:36] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: I'm just looking on the wiki
[12:37] <Laurenceb> that landing spot is a bit off?
[12:37] fnoble (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4c36c205f369b663) joined #highaltitude.
[12:37] <robert_1971_> what was the name of the gps's which don't have the altitude restriction
[12:37] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, not really
[12:37] <ShellEvil> Lassen IQ IIRC
[12:37] <jcoxon> Ublox work as well
[12:38] <Laurenceb> a few fields to the north?
[12:38] <edmoore> yes, I think I like them already, despite having not used them
[12:38] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, o perhaps
[12:38] <G8KHW> gordoncp: we cant use 458MHz as it isn't licenced for airborne operation
[12:38] <Laurenceb> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=52.44,1.203&ie=UTF8&ll=52.443617,1.203314&spn=0.000796,0.002414&t=h&z=19
[12:38] <G8KHW> (or it wasn't last time I loked)
[12:39] <gordonjcp> G8KHW: hm, yeah
[12:39] <G8KHW> looked
[12:39] <edmoore> Laurenceb: I think it was there, they're just changed the layout of the fiels around a bit
[12:40] <Laurenceb> you can see the paddock just to the north
[12:40] <Laurenceb> then it was north of the paddock - you can see that pond on google maps
[12:41] <jcoxon> sorted
[12:41] <Laurenceb> its only around 1Km from the point where we first stopped
[12:41] <jcoxon> yup
[12:41] <Laurenceb> pretty amazing !
[12:42] <jcoxon> just means that we are pretty good at yagi sweeping
[12:42] <jcoxon> though if we had a compass and a map we'd be better :-p
[12:42] <Laurenceb> yeah, a must for future launches
[12:43] <jcoxon> right everyone
[12:43] <jcoxon> here you go:
[12:43] <jcoxon> http://www.umsfbu.com/HAPS1/
[12:43] <jcoxon> not all uploaded yet
[12:43] <jcoxon> don't overwhelm it...
[12:47] <Laurenceb> wheres the really high alt ones?
[12:47] <G8KHW> BBL
[12:49] <edmoore> Yes, in my briefcase fir the future I will have a compass, a road atlas, and a handhelp gps
[12:49] <Laurenceb> it'll be like orienteering
[12:50] <jcoxon> "<jcoxon> not all uploaded yet"
[12:50] <Laurenceb> I see
[12:51] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.ca/view/YUTAqj.html
[12:51] <Laurenceb> that was taken a while after takeoff - really good visability
[12:52] <edmoore> Laurenceb: great shot :)
[12:53] <edmoore> jcoxon: umsfbu - unmanned spaceflight balloon .... ?
[12:53] <jcoxon> back up
[12:55] <edmoore> oh cool
[12:55] <edmoore> doug thinks ahead
[12:55] <jcoxon> as in unmannedspaceflightbackup
[12:55] <jcoxon> he does
[12:58] <Laurenceb> I shoved a couple of images on imagebin.ca
[12:59] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, why don't you get a flickr accound
[12:59] <jcoxon> account
[12:59] <Laurenceb> ok ok :P
[12:59] <jcoxon> would come in usefull
[12:59] <Laurenceb> yeah I'll do it
[12:59] <jcoxon> back later
[12:59] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[13:00] <Laurenceb> unfortunately i didnt get the moment of liftoff
[13:01] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.ca/view/5Hr6EG0M.html
[13:02] kamaji (n=kamaji@handtomouse.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[13:02] <kamaji> o/
[13:04] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[13:04] <Laurenceb> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7577493.stm
[13:06] <kamaji> wow
[13:06] <kamaji> Why do they always pick that bent-up-at-the-ends wing shape?
[13:07] <gordonjcp> stability
[13:07] <Laurenceb> its more stable
[13:07] <gordonjcp> kamaji: think about it this way - the lift from the wing is a thrust vector pointing away from the wing
[13:08] <gordonjcp> kamaji: imagine a rod sticking out of the wing at 90 degrees to the flat side, pointing more or less down the way
[13:08] <gordonjcp> now
[13:08] <gordonjcp> if the aircraft is flying level the dihedral means that the wings are being pushed in and up
[13:09] <kamaji> oh, yeah
[13:09] <kamaji> that makes sense
[13:09] <gordonjcp> if it rolls to port, then the port wing is closer to horizontal, so the lift vector is closer to vertical
[13:09] <gordonjcp> and will push it upright again
[13:09] <gordonjcp> (this is why fighter aircraft have no dihedral or even negative dihedral)
[13:10] <Laurenceb> where is a good place to buy servo parts in the UK?
[13:10] <gordonjcp> model shops?
[13:11] <Laurenceb> they probably wouldnt stock what I'm after
[13:11] <ShellEvil> Laurenceb: ebay!
[13:11] <ShellEvil> :/
[13:11] <Laurenceb> I'm looking for the winch drum attatchments
[13:11] <kamaji> Does anyone know the name of the connector on the GM862-GPS? I can't find it on the data sheet
[13:11] <Laurenceb> so I can use a normal servo as a winch servo
[13:11] Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) left #highaltitude ("Leaving").
[13:12] <kamaji> the antenna connector, that is
[13:12] <ShellEvil> Have you considered that you can use a normal servo as a winch?
[13:12] <Laurenceb> like the one supplied on the HS-725BB
[13:12] <ShellEvil> Just add a couple of guides.
[13:12] <Laurenceb> yeah, but I dont have a lathe
[13:12] <ShellEvil> Laurenceb: no lathe
[13:12] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[13:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.rchobby.co.uk/Servos/sail_servo.htm
[13:13] <ShellEvil> Laurenceb: you simply have a servo arm, and a couple of guides.
[13:13] <Laurenceb> it needs to be small, so it can be enclosed inside the payload
[13:14] <Laurenceb> something like futaba part no FUTFSH5801
[13:18] <ShellEvil> I mean something like take a stock servo. Put a 10cm arm on it.
[13:19] <Laurenceb> no, that would be way too big
[13:19] <Laurenceb> that was the solution on my previous design, but I want to keep it warmer now
[13:20] <Laurenceb> I guess the horn off http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUPERTEC-SAIL-YACHT-WINCH-1-TURN-SERVO-ONLY-13-99_W0QQitemZ310076256602QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item310076256602&_trkparms=72%3A984%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[13:20] <Laurenceb> could be fitted on another servo, but its a waste of money to buy a servo for the horn
[13:21] <Laurenceb> and the flanges arent as big on that gws either
[13:22] <ShellEvil> On the solar plane. Neat - but nothing especially clever.
[13:22] <ShellEvil> 'throw money at it' solution.
[13:24] <Laurenceb> oh well time for me to head off and get some work done
[13:24] <Laurenceb> cya all
[13:24] <ShellEvil> Wave.
[13:42] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:44] robert_1971_ (i=568d0973@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8e0ad08ffff621b2) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[13:48] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[13:49] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[14:14] G8KHW (n=Steve@217.47.75.27) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[14:19] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:20] <edmoore> hi again jcoxon
[14:21] <jcoxon> hey hey
[14:22] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[14:22] <gordonjcp> hey edmoore, jcoxon, robert1971
[14:22] <edmoore> hello thar
[14:22] <edmoore> did you hear anything?
[14:23] <gordonjcp> nope
[14:23] <gordonjcp> not a sausage
[14:23] <gordonjcp> there was a lot of something on 430.075, but I suspect it was fairly local interference
[14:24] <gordonjcp> it didn't sound like a pulsed 1Hz carrier
[14:24] <robert1971> jcoxon: what was the camera you used for the flight?
[14:24] <gordonjcp> next time I'll try again, possibly with a longer yagi
[14:24] <gordonjcp> if it first you don't succeed, build a bigger one
[14:24] <robert1971> Hi gordonjcp
[14:27] <jcoxon> powershot a560
[14:29] <jcoxon> running the CHDK firmware
[14:33] <edmoore> very convincing performance
[14:36] fnoble|away (n=fnoblef@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[14:37] <kamaji> Have you lost a balloon?
[14:37] <jcoxon> nope
[14:37] <jcoxon> we found it
[14:37] <kamaji> :D
[14:38] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: how do you find people are about balloons dropping into their fields?
[14:38] <kamaji> I would assume you just sneak in? :P
[14:38] <jcoxon> slightly suprised but happy to help
[14:38] <kamaji> :o
[14:38] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: that's pretty good
[14:38] <gordonjcp> I can see people getting arsey about that sort of thing
[14:39] <kamaji> How do you find the people in the first place?
[14:39] <gordonjcp> how hard does it land, I mean would it do any damage if it landed on something?
[14:39] <jcoxon> voila http://www.umsfbu.com/HAPS1/VIDEOS/MVI_6734.AVI
[14:40] <jcoxon> kamaji, we just knocked on their doors and asked if they mind if we went in their fields - its very agricultural around here
[14:40] <gordonjcp> can't really tell from that clip
[14:40] <jcoxon> hehe
[14:40] <jcoxon> not too hard
[14:40] <jcoxon> but it might break a greenhouse
[14:40] <kamaji> heh
[14:40] <jcoxon> but then so do birds :-p
[14:41] <kamaji> and fairly strong wind :P
[14:41] <gordonjcp> I mean I'd be really pissed off if you put a dent (another dent, then) in the roof of my car
[14:41] <kamaji> I think the chances of actually landing on something important are miniscule, aren't they?
[14:42] <jcoxon> oh teh chances are soooo low
[14:42] <jcoxon> of course there is always a risk
[14:42] <jcoxon> but we try and minmise them as much as possible
[14:42] <kamaji> Using that forecast?
[14:43] <edmoore> all our payloads have spongy foam bottoms
[14:43] <jcoxon> yeah, good parachutes as well
[14:43] <edmoore> for precisely that reason
[14:43] <jcoxon> and have as light as possible payload
[14:43] <edmoore> jcoxon: just bought a garmen etrex summit for CUSF. Should help us out
[14:43] <edmoore> I quite liked going back to basics
[14:43] <jcoxon> it was fun
[14:43] <edmoore> maps, rulers, and triangulation
[14:44] <kamaji> ?
[14:44] <kamaji> You sent up a beacon?
[14:44] <kamaji> instead of a GPS type thing?
[14:45] <edmoore> kamaji: the main packet radio went out of range - it was very ambitious
[14:45] <edmoore> but james have the foresight to include a 1hx beacon
[14:45] <edmoore> hz*
[14:45] <jcoxon> :-)
[14:45] <edmoore> so we triangulated in a pen of about 20miles x 20 miles
[14:45] <kamaji> How did you find it?
[14:46] <edmoore> using the directionality of the yagi antennas
[14:46] <kamaji> I was talking to my boss about this a while ago actually
[14:46] <kamaji> He says he's got a friend who builds weather balloons and tracks them like that
[14:46] <edmoore> so you pick one spot, and make an estimate as to the bearing of the payload based on the signal strength from the yagi antenna (linked to whether or not you're pointing it in the right direction)
[14:46] <edmoore> then you pick another spot and do the same
[14:47] <edmoore> and where the bearings intersect, you head in that direction
[14:47] <edmoore> and try again
[14:47] <edmoore> and home in on it
[14:47] <jcoxon> its quite time consuming but very rewarding
[14:47] <edmoore> so we got a bearing from Rocketboy who was at norwich airport
[14:47] <edmoore> and we got one from near Thetford
[14:47] <edmoore> and i took a stab at a place
[14:47] <edmoore> and we headed down there and repeated
[14:47] <edmoore> ended up being a couple of km from the initial guess
[14:48] <kamaji> that's pretty cool
[14:48] <edmoore> I took the stab because I had a very partially cahced google earth maps of the area
[14:48] G8KHW (n=Steve@217.47.75.27) joined #highaltitude.
[14:49] <edmoore> talk of the devil
[14:49] <edmoore> G8KHW: was just explaining where we triangulated from
[14:49] <kamaji> My boss was telling me that it's possible to do it from a single installation though
[14:49] <edmoore> indeed, just more driving
[14:49] <kamaji> if you have four different antennae and measure the phase difference
[14:49] <kamaji> no, without moving apparently
[14:49] <edmoore> if you have 2 people, you can get simulataneous bearings
[14:49] <edmoore> oh?
[14:50] <kamaji> I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it seemed reasonable
[14:50] <edmoore> does he have some kind of ranging aswell as bearing?
[14:51] <kamaji> He did mention something
[14:51] <kamaji> but i'm hazy on the details
[14:51] <kamaji> you could sync clocks, maybe?
[14:51] <kamaji> wait, no
[14:51] <kamaji> that would probably be quite inaccurate
[14:52] <kamaji> I will get back to you on that :3
[14:52] <edmoore> :)
[14:52] <kamaji> I have to go drive to the tip, back in a bit
[14:52] <edmoore> cool, cya
[14:53] <gordonjcp> ranging is actually pretty hard to do
[14:53] <gordonjcp> foxhunting just involves knowing how deep the sidelobes of your antenna are, and a bit of trig ;-)
[14:54] <jcoxon> i'm impressed with the new arduino pro mini from sparkfun
[14:54] <edmoore> yeah it's cute isn't it
[14:55] <edmoore> jcoxon: micros are the way forward
[14:55] <jcoxon> indeed
[14:55] borism (n=boris@194.126.108.2) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[14:56] fnoble (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4c36c205f369b663) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[15:03] <gordonjcp> hmm
[15:03] <gordonjcp> I was thinking about this
[15:04] <gordonjcp> would it be better to have a microcontroller to handle talking to the GSM and GPS module and possibly the TX, leaving the gumstix free to do the rest?
[15:05] <gordonjcp> ie. eliminate the USB bits and hand it off to the MCU
[15:05] <jcoxon> gordonjcp, certainly an idea
[15:05] <jcoxon> they are quite a few options
[15:05] <gordonjcp> wonder if you can get MCUs with multiple UARTs
[15:05] <jcoxon> instead of using the goliath board use the gpsstix
[15:05] <jcoxon> which uses serial to chat to everything
[15:06] <edmoore> gordonjcp: you can
[15:06] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: true
[15:06] <edmoore> the new cortex m3 arms (32 bit, 72MHz, 30ma 3.3V) have 4 uarts
[15:06] <edmoore> the arm we use on badger has 2
[15:06] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: one possibility is allowing a certain amount of failsafe on the comms MCU
[15:06] <jcoxon> yup
[15:07] <gordonjcp> ie "the host is talking shite, this is the MCU speaking"
[15:10] <jcoxon> :-)
[15:19] Action: jcoxon begins the big tidy up of his desk
[15:25] <robert1971> Just a quick chat on GPS's I have had a look at the Lassen IQ and the Ublox 5 GPS's. I can't see how to interface the Ublox 5 to an external antenae. The lassen has a nice interface on it. Any pointers from the more experienced?
[15:26] <ShellEvil> Laurenceb: Oh - and the batteries on that solar plane - LiS - you have to IIRC heat to 200C before you get power.
[15:26] <jcoxon> both a excellent gps units
[15:26] <jcoxon> however
[15:26] <jcoxon> there don't really appear to be off the shelf ublox boards
[15:26] <edmoore> robert1971: the difference is thusly
[15:26] <jcoxon> while lassens are nice and easy to use
[15:26] <edmoore> jcoxon: they do exist but they're not hugely available
[15:27] <jcoxon> pretty hard to get hold of
[15:28] <edmoore> robert1971: the ublox need mounting on a pcb, as does the connector or antenna - you do that yourself, it is all described in the datahseet
[15:28] <edmoore> but it does require some careful RF design
[15:28] <edmoore> the lassen has that onboard
[15:29] <edmoore> more weight, but less complicated
[15:29] <robert1971> I might take the easy approach
[15:29] <edmoore> ublox units are available, eg http://shop.halfbase.com/product_info.php/products_id/59?osCsid=2d6606f1236a6168d54f6ebf66d7efd9
[15:29] <edmoore> they probably have higher performance than the lassen's
[15:29] <edmoore> and 4hz updates
[15:29] <jcoxon> oh i forgot about that site
[15:29] <edmoore> i think they would come into their own for UAVs and more dynamic things
[15:30] <edmoore> the lassens are just fine, infact real troopers, for ballooning
[15:30] <jcoxon> don't they say that they are good for balloons in their datasheet
[15:31] <jcoxon> (lassens that is)
[15:31] <edmoore> well, they say they're suitable in that they have an AND implimentation on their operational limits
[15:31] <robert1971> Will they work at height
[15:32] <jcoxon> both will
[15:32] <robert1971> Ah you mean both speed AND height
[15:32] <jcoxon> "This allows the receiver to be used in high altitude (research
[15:32] <jcoxon> balloon) applications without a special factory configuration."
[15:32] <jcoxon> :-D
[15:32] <jcoxon> lassen iQ
[15:33] <edmoore> robert1971: correct, as opposed to OR which some others use
[15:33] <edmoore> 24km or 515m/s
[15:33] <robert1971> I'm no electronics expert so I'm going for the easy option.
[15:34] G8KHW (n=Steve@217.47.75.27) left irc: "Leaving"
[15:36] <jcoxon> edmoore, for badger were you using energizer lithiums of LiPo?
[15:36] <edmoore> energizers
[15:36] <edmoore> tho going to try lipos for v2
[15:37] <edmoore> at least, putting charging circuitry for lipos on the board
[15:37] <ShellEvil> I (personally) would use li-ions.
[15:37] <jcoxon> edmoore, would be good to see how well they work
[15:37] <ShellEvil> Yes, they are a bit heavier - but 18g for 6Wh isn't really bad.
[15:37] Action: kamaji just found out about #warning in C
[15:37] <ShellEvil> And the steel case means there is no chance of the case bulging.
[15:38] <edmoore> kamaji: what is that?
[15:38] <edmoore> ShellEvil: They'll be in our pressurised warm box
[15:38] <ShellEvil> Ah.
[15:39] <ShellEvil> I diddn't realise you had a pressurised box.
[15:39] <kamaji> edmoore: it lets you make the compiler give a warning on compile
[15:39] <kamaji> edmoore: instead of using // TODO everywhere
[15:39] <edmoore> ah ok
[15:40] <kamaji> also http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Whoops!.aspx
[15:40] <kamaji> :D
[15:40] <robert1971> the Lassen sk II looks like the one 4 me
[15:41] <edmoore> robert1971: can highly recommend them
[15:41] <edmoore> they're proven
[15:41] <robert1971> any idea on a likely price
[15:42] <edmoore> $65? can't remember
[15:42] <edmoore> sparkfun knows
[15:42] <jcoxon> haha we should have a !sparkfun
[15:42] <edmoore> you'll want to get an hlf to SMA adaptor
[15:42] <edmoore> then an sma antenna
[15:43] <robert1971> Cool thanks for that pointer
[15:44] <robert1971> i guess the hlf is the connector
[15:44] <edmoore> yes
[15:44] <edmoore> it's a tiny thing on the lassen
[15:44] <jcoxon> robert1971, so does will the gps go to your avr then?
[15:45] <robert1971> That's is an interesting question. Or the gumstix.
[15:46] <jcoxon> indeed it is
[15:46] <jcoxon> it certainly can be done on an avr
[15:46] <robert1971> I would like, I guess, to send the nema to the gumstix for logging along with temp output from the avr
[15:46] kamaji_ (n=kamaji@handtomouse.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[15:47] <jcoxon> but would be more straight forward to do to the gumstix
[15:47] <robert1971> But I can see the advantage of setting up ? I2C to avr and sending nema and temp data to one USART on the gumstix
[15:48] <robert1971> I have the avr reporting temp and soon barometic pressure (abs)
[15:48] <ShellEvil> what bariosensor?
[15:49] <ShellEvil> baro
[15:49] <jcoxon> robert1971, what gumstix daughterboard do you have?
[15:50] <robert1971> net sd
[15:51] <jcoxon> on the 120pin?
[15:51] <robert1971> looking
[15:52] <jcoxon> is it the big connector
[15:52] <robert1971> yep
[15:52] <jcoxon> hmmm, okay
[15:53] <jcoxon> most of the serial ports and i2c come out the 60pin connector on the bottom i think
[15:53] <robert1971> yep got the 3 serial port bit on bottom
[15:53] <jcoxon> oh right
[15:54] <jcoxon> console-vx
[15:54] <jcoxon> was going to suggest if you didn't have a bottom board to go for http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=157
[15:54] <robert1971> yep sorry got 1 year old on arms
[15:54] <jcoxon> :-)
[15:56] <robert1971> That might be an easier solution. I was coming around to perhaps not sending up my gumstix but that leaves me with a logging problem and more electronics and programming to solve
[15:57] <jcoxon> well you could always add a sd card by spi
[15:57] <jcoxon> and not use the gumstix
[15:57] <jcoxon> while its often easier to use it is alot more to lose :-p
[15:58] <robert1971> Budget spiraling out of control :-) Just won a cylinder trolly on ebay today
[15:58] <robert1971> another 65 quid
[15:58] <jcoxon> wow
[15:58] <jcoxon> you're going all out
[15:59] <jcoxon> hehe
[15:59] <robert1971> good price
[15:59] <robert1971> 160 on boc
[15:59] <jcoxon> fair enough
[16:00] <robert1971> got to drive to morecambe 3 collect
[16:00] <robert1971> 2
[16:00] <robert1971> i'm sure that is where the cockle pickers died
[16:02] <gordonjcp> one lot of them
[16:02] kamaji (n=kamaji@handtomouse.demon.co.uk) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[16:18] <robert1971> jcoxon: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160274368620&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=006
[16:19] <robert1971> I need to have a chat about fox hunting and radio beacons sometime but I'll deal with the gps stuff first.
[16:19] <kamaji_> okay, I really don't understand much of this paper, but from the abstract it seems like it might be of some use: ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/7196/19383/00895744.pdf?arnumber=895744
[16:21] Nick change: kamaji_ -> kamaji
[16:23] <ShellEvil> Not especially.
[16:24] <ShellEvil> If it's in fact millimeter wave - that's really, really hard to homebrew.
[16:24] <kamaji> ah, pity.
[16:24] <ShellEvil> And in practice, you're never, ever going to get it cheaper (in hundreds) than a GPS and a low-bandwidth transmitter.
[16:25] <gordonjcp> kamaji: think about it
[16:25] <gordonjcp> how fiddly is it to make decent antennas in centimetric bands?
[16:25] <kamaji> I really couldn't say :)
[16:26] <kamaji> but i'll assume: very
[16:26] <gordonjcp> well, have you ever made a wifi antenna?
[16:26] <ShellEvil> I wonder how accurate a standard sky dish is.
[16:26] <kamaji> gordonjcp: nope, although as soon as I get to Maplin i'm going to try :)
[16:27] <kamaji> for a cantenna, that is
[16:27] <kamaji> ShellEvil: accurate?
[16:27] <gordonjcp> kamaji: don't do the pringles can design
[16:27] <kamaji> no, I heard that was the wrong size
[16:28] <kamaji> I was going to go with this one: http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html
[16:28] <gordonjcp> kamaji: at wifi frequencies, 1mm is a lot
[16:29] <kamaji> What do you mean by a lot? as in an error of 1mm means a really crappy antenna?
[16:30] <gordonjcp> yup
[16:30] <kamaji> I don't suppose that's much of an issue for a cantenna though, is it?
[16:30] <kamaji> Does this have something to do with SWR...
[16:31] <kamaji> to the wiki!
[16:35] <jnd> hey
[16:36] <jnd> do you have any news for me?
[16:36] phatmonkey (n=ben@scooby.firshman.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:44] <robert1971> Reading about CMOS TTL levels has anyone any experience of interfacing these with gumstix?
[16:44] <robert1971> I think I may just buy the gpsstix :)
[16:46] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[16:49] <gordonjcp> if the gumstix is just presenting logic-level serial that should be OK
[16:50] <gordonjcp> you won't need RS-232 levels over the kind of distances you're covering ;-)
[16:57] borism (n=boris@195-50-205-117-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[17:07] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.27) joined #highaltitude.
[17:12] <robert1971> gordonjcp: ool I think
[17:12] <robert1971> Opps
[17:13] <robert1971> gordonjcp: Not had much experience with CMOS TTL coms Do you just treat like rs232 provided that both sides are CMOS TTL ?
[17:13] <robert1971> Ie set baud 8n1 and go 4 it?
[17:13] <gordonjcp> yeah
[17:14] <gordonjcp> as long as they're both logic-level and the same technology, which will be CMOS these days
[17:14] <robert1971> Ok i'm going to go for it
[17:17] Ei5GTB_ (n=Paul@78.16.143.168) joined #highaltitude.
[17:23] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:29] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[17:31] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[17:35] EI5GTB (n=Paul@78.16.4.31) left irc: Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)
[17:53] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: "Leaving"
[17:56] gordonjc1 (n=gordonjc@symmetria.fi) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:05] gordonjcp (n=gordonjc@symmetria.fi) left irc: Nick collision from services.
[18:05] Nick change: gordonjc1 -> gordonjcp
[18:16] SpeedEvil (n=djjfjf@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: "changing servers"
[18:17] SpeedEvil (n=djjfjf@mauve.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:25] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) joined #highaltitude.
[18:39] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[18:49] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, you around?
[18:51] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:52] SpikeUK (i=568f9629@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e63be53d247d51e8) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[18:53] SpikeUK (i=568f9629@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1f81304161b6a3e3) joined #highaltitude.
[18:53] <RocketBoy> yep
[18:53] <jcoxon> haha just started asking ed the question i was going to ask you
[18:54] <jcoxon> damn i'll bbl (i'll email you instead)
[18:54] <RocketBoy> nnp
[18:54] <jcoxon> cya guys
[18:54] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[19:03] soneil (n=soneil@89.100.243.212) joined #highaltitude.
[19:14] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[19:32] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:39] willie (n=willie@ip246-108-v193.static.x-ip.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:46] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:47] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@host86-133-69-206.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[19:48] <edmoore> they're doing stuff on UMSF http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPS/6417_19_35_80_81_full.jpg
[19:49] <robert1971> edmoore: what do you do when you feel like you need 3 USART's and you only have one. Thinking connecting to GPS and GUMSTIX worse still the GPS wants CMOS TTL and the gumstix RS232 levels ... Any ideas anyone?
[19:50] <edmoore> what do you have available - a gumstix and a?
[19:50] <ShellEvil> gumstix will certainly accept TTL input levels
[19:50] <ShellEvil> If expecting 232
[19:51] <robert1971> avr ATMEGA32 with rs232 levels connected to USART via the MAX 323 chip
[19:51] <edmoore> ok
[19:51] <edmoore> so you in theory have no 'spare' uarts on the atmega?
[19:51] <edmoore> or does it have 2?
[19:51] <robert1971> Only one
[19:52] <robert1971> I remember you mentioned 7 servos using one pin and I wondered if you had any more magic :D
[19:52] <edmoore> ok, and what are the 3 connections you need? - gumstic, gps and?
[19:53] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[19:53] <robert1971> gumstix, GPS, AVR and Mobile I think
[19:53] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude.
[19:54] <robert1971> I guess thats the 3 on the gumstix then
[19:54] <edmoore> ok, and they all need connecting
[19:54] <edmoore> well, first question
[19:54] <edmoore> can you deal with a single 16 pin smt chip?
[19:54] <robert1971> AVR to feed in temp and baro sensors
[19:54] <robert1971> GPS to log data
[19:54] <edmoore> and does the gumstix have spi or i2c?
[19:55] <robert1971> Yep it does and so does teh AVR
[19:55] <robert1971> Ahh thats what your thinking
[19:55] <robert1971> you're even ;-)
[19:55] <edmoore> ok
[19:56] <edmoore> well gps is mainly 1 way comms
[19:56] <robert1971> yep and so will the info comming out of the AVR
[19:56] <edmoore> and phone is mainly one way
[19:56] <edmoore> oh? ok that's interesting
[19:56] <edmoore> well essentially, there exist SPI or I2C to UART chips
[19:56] <edmoore> eg
[19:56] <robert1971> lots of one way stuff can we link all the serials together and prey?
[19:57] <edmoore> SC16IS750IBS
[19:58] <edmoore> I would be inclined to do it more like this
[19:58] <edmoore> have the avr as the hub
[19:58] <robert1971> Cool
[19:58] <edmoore> with these spi and i2c chips
[19:58] <edmoore> to talk to everything
[19:58] <edmoore> do a bit of pre-processing and packing, or whatever
[19:58] <edmoore> then just feed everything into the gumstix
[19:59] <edmoore> the gumstix can do any high level logic, the avr (which is more reliable) can just do a basic emergency mode if the gumstix dies
[19:59] <edmoore> because it has access to gps data and so on
[19:59] <robert1971> Ok I'm going to do some reading on the subject
[19:59] <edmoore> this chip SC16IS750IBS
[19:59] <edmoore> could help y'out a lot
[19:59] <robert1971> Ahh I'll go and have a look at the data sheets
[20:00] <edmoore> I'll be using on of them in Badger2
[20:00] <edmoore> one*
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> If you've got a USB host mode board on the gumstick, there is the cheesy way.
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> USB-serial adaptors.
[20:01] <robert1971> shove a usb to serial hub in ?
[20:02] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> Yay!
[20:02] Action: SpeedEvil finishes organising his rack of bins.
[20:03] <edmoore> jcoxon: have you seen the panorama?
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> Hadn't seen one. Neat.
[20:05] <jcoxon> wow wow wow
[20:05] <jcoxon> just loaded it up
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> Stabilised cams - or even shuttered when not moving too fast - would be awesome.
[20:07] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Halt! Hammerzeit!=-"
[20:10] <edmoore> they would be
[20:13] <jcoxon> it even has the moon
[20:13] <edmoore> yep
[20:13] <jcoxon> im slightly overwhelmed
[20:15] <akawaka> url?
[20:18] <jcoxon> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPS/6417_19_35_80_81_v2_full.jpg
[20:20] <edmoore> yeah, not too shabby is it :)
[20:20] <gordonjcp> that's fantastic
[20:21] borism_ (n=boris@195-50-199-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[20:22] <edmoore> it even matches up with what the sattelite reckons
[20:22] <edmoore> http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=15392
[20:26] <akawaka> ah
[20:26] <akawaka> holy fucking shit guys
[20:27] <kamaji> what what?
[20:27] <akawaka> thats awesome
[20:27] borism (n=boris@195-50-205-117-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[20:27] <akawaka> how many images were used to make that?
[20:27] <kamaji> I don't understand what i'm looking at :(
[20:28] <jcoxon> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPS/6417_19_35_80_81_v2_full.jpg
[20:29] <kamaji> ooooh purdy
[20:29] <edmoore> akawaka: clue's in the name
[20:30] <edmoore> 6417, 6419, 6435, 6480... etc
[20:30] <akawaka> 5!
[20:30] <kamaji> it's slightly off in the middle, isn't it?
[20:30] <akawaka> there are 5 images!
[20:31] <jcoxon> those guys are the pros at making mosaics
[20:33] <akawaka> someone mentioned the moon?
[20:33] <jcoxon> yeah its there, quite faint, on the left
[20:33] <jcoxon> just about to set
[20:34] <gordonjcp> did you get photos of the balloon burst this time?
[20:35] <jcoxon> there is a video of its burst
[20:35] <akawaka> nice
[20:35] <edmoore> one of the videos started about 1s after the burst
[21:03] fnoble|away (n=fnoblef@eman06.gotadsl.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[21:11] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:12] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left #highaltitude.
[21:13] <jnd> aww, there should be big image resolution warning
[21:16] <edmoore> fnoble|away: hi
[21:19] SpikeUK (i=568f9629@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1f81304161b6a3e3) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[21:19] Nick change: fnoble|away -> fnoble
[21:21] <fnoble> edmoore, hi
[21:21] <fnoble> at iains so i may be on and off
[21:21] <fnoble> dougs panarama is awesome
[21:23] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[21:24] <robert1971> Just looked at a selection of videos and pics + the panorama -- F@@king amazing inspirational, I thought it was going to be a disaster watching the weather and the system failures
[21:27] <edmoore> heh, as long as you have a beacon, you can get it back
[21:27] <akawaka> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/08/microsatellite_kits.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890
[21:27] <robert1971> That point was not lost on me
[21:39] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left #highaltitude.
[21:39] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[21:40] gordonjc1 (n=gordonjc@symmetria.fi) joined #highaltitude.
[21:45] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:49] gordonjcp (n=gordonjc@symmetria.fi) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[22:11] Shanuson (n=kasei@pD9E6E772.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "Leaving."
[22:18] <robert1971> early night ... work tomorrow
[22:18] <robert1971> ttfn
[22:18] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left #highaltitude.
[22:33] <jcoxon> perhaps some of these pics would look good as a canvas
[22:38] fnoble (n=fnoblef@eman06.gotadsl.co.uk) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[22:40] <jcoxon> edmoore,
[22:40] <jcoxon> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/blog1.php/2008/08/25/haps-1-360-degree-panorama
[22:41] <jcoxon> this guy is a panoramic machine
[22:41] <edmoore> sick
[22:44] <icez> wow
[22:45] fnoble (n=fnoblef@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:45] <jcoxon> fnoble, http://www.nivnac.co.uk/blog1.php/2008/08/25/haps-1-360-degree-panorama
[22:47] <fnoble> thats so cool
[22:48] <ShellEvil> yup
[22:48] <fnoble> one of the cooler things
[22:49] <ShellEvil> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPS/IMG_64xx_360_polar_thumb.jpg - the ray to the bottom-left is lens flare from the sun?
[22:49] <fnoble> guys, just as a heads up we are tentativly planning a launch on thursday with a paylooad again based on the nova6/7 system
[22:49] <jcoxon> fnoble, cool
[22:49] <fnoble> but no promises yet
[22:49] <jcoxon> fair enough
[22:50] <soneil> I hope the big gray patch in the center of that, is giving someone ideas for future flights :) that'd be awesome gapless
[22:50] <jcoxon> i'm sure doug will be keen to fill the gap in
[22:50] <fnoble> soneil, yeah, all it would need is one down facing camera i bet
[22:50] <ShellEvil> Hmm.
[22:50] <ShellEvil> Put the camera sideways
[22:50] <ShellEvil> portrait, not landscape.
[22:50] <ShellEvil> And put it so that it's pointing down a little
[22:53] <edmoore> or just put the pan/tilt underneath and systematically grab everything
[22:54] <ShellEvil> Well - yes, of course.
[22:54] <ShellEvil> But simply switching the orientation would fill a lot of the hole.
[22:54] <jcoxon> i reckon one down, one side would be best
[22:55] <jcoxon> as its simple
[22:55] <jcoxon> and gives lots of pictures
[22:55] <ShellEvil> Down again at a cant - to maximise the cone.
[22:55] <ShellEvil> Though straight will work too.
[22:59] <ShellEvil> Something simple to just take a pic when the thing wasn't spinning like a dervish'd improve the pics too.
[22:59] <ShellEvil> But I don't know the delay on the 'take picture' command
[22:59] <edmoore> it doesn't spin so much once it's through the worst of the jetstream
[22:59] <edmoore> it's pretty gentle up at the top
[22:59] <jcoxon> yeah if you watch the videos its quite calm up there
[22:59] <jcoxon> rather serene
[23:00] <ShellEvil> True. Still - most of the pics exhibited some motion blur.
[23:00] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@host86-133-69-206.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:00] <Laurenceb> hi all
[23:00] <ShellEvil> Though some of that can be removed by software.
[23:00] <edmoore> hi Laurenceb
[23:00] <ShellEvil> Hi.
[23:00] <fnoble> Laurenceb, hello
[23:01] <Laurenceb> just had yet another day of decorating :D
[23:01] <ShellEvil> Congratulations!
[23:01] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, http://www.nivnac.co.uk/blog1.php/2008/08/25/haps-1-360-degree-panorama
[23:02] <ShellEvil> Laurenceb: shouldn't there be an extra l in your nick?
[23:02] <Laurenceb> that url looks very very exciting
[23:03] <Laurenceb> wow
[23:03] <Laurenceb> anyone know the time delay between each photo during "photo burst" ?
[23:04] <jcoxon> they all have timestamps
[23:04] <jcoxon> so it could be worked out
[23:05] <Laurenceb> yeah - I imagine the chances of being able to get a 360 panorama are slim unless you have the timing roughly correct
[23:06] <ShellEvil> Not really.
[23:06] <edmoore> right, off to ox at 6am so I'm going to head it
[23:06] <edmoore> g'night
[23:06] <ShellEvil> With enough images and overlap.
[23:06] <ShellEvil> Night.
[23:06] <Laurenceb> we have a few videos
[23:06] <fnoble> Laurenceb, well the clouds dont change much
[23:06] <Laurenceb> cya
[23:06] <fnoble> edmoore, night
[23:06] <edmoore> shout if io on chdk happens
[23:07] <Laurenceb> edmoore: enjoy ox
[23:07] <edmoore> it's only work
[23:10] <Laurenceb> I've started working on a mini rogallo airframe
[23:10] <Laurenceb> going for 45cm wing spars - thats a wing loading of around 2Kg/m^2
[23:11] doug_ellison (n=djelliso@87-127-121-8.no-dns-yet.enta.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:11] <Laurenceb> weight will be 320 grams if it all works out
[23:11] <Laurenceb> hi doug, congrats
[23:11] <doug_ellison> :)
[23:11] <fnoble> doug_ellison, man well done
[23:11] <edmoore> is the mer-man available for hire? We need to keep him.
[23:12] <edmoore> mer-vista*
[23:12] <doug_ellison> Seen James Canvins latest mosaic? http://www.nivnac.co.uk/blog1.php/2008/08/25/haps-1-360-degree-panorama
[23:12] <fnoble> doug_ellison, that is definately the best balloon photo set ive seen
[23:12] <fnoble> doug_ellison, we bought an a560 today because of you :)
[23:13] <doug_ellison> LOL - I guess those Canon shares were a good idea. (damn - I should have bought some)
[23:14] <Laurenceb> its amazing :D
[23:14] <Laurenceb> so James Canvins used shots between 28Km and 31?
[23:15] <fnoble> doug_ellison, were the Canvins mosaics made by hand? or is there some software to automate the process?
[23:16] <doug_ellison> He's got something cunning for Mars stuff - I think he just fed the images into that
[23:17] <edmoore> well if it's open source and cunning, orgasmic
[23:18] <doug_ellison> fnoble - firmware and my script on its way to you
[23:18] <fnoble> doug_ellison, thank you very much
[23:18] <fnoble> :)
[23:24] <Laurenceb> http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/26/products_id/43
[23:24] <Laurenceb> ^ a good deal?
[23:28] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) left irc:
[23:39] kamaji (n=kamaji@handtomouse.demon.co.uk) left irc: "night all"
[23:46] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[23:49] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:51] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.27) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:54] doug_ellison (n=djelliso@87-127-121-8.no-dns-yet.enta.net) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:54] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-99-31.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:55] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc:
[23:56] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude.
[00:00] --- Tue Aug 26 2008