highaltitude.log.20080821

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[00:18] <fnoble> hello
[00:18] <fnoble> anyone let online? :)
[00:18] <fnoble> *left
[00:18] Action: SpeedEvil is ALWAYS HERE.
[00:19] <fnoble> hehe- hi SpeedEvil
[00:19] <fnoble> hows things?
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> Ok.
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> Having annoying problems with banks and finances.
[00:20] <fnoble> always the way
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> Primarily the lack of the latter causing annoying letters from the former.
[00:21] <akawaka> break someones nose, you wont get any trouble from anyone else then and you should be able to clear out the vault
[00:21] <akawaka> just be out of there in 60 seconds
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> I have considered back-of-the-envelope designs for intercontinental electric minisubs.
[00:21] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@host86-133-69-206.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[00:21] <Laurenceb> hi folks
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> It's not actually that bad. IIRC a ton of Li-ion to get you across the atlantic in 3 days with a 1m dia sub.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> But that's an entirely different way of clearing debts.
[00:22] <Laurenceb> was the sstv code written from scratch?
[00:22] <akawaka> depth charges
[00:22] <akawaka> Laurenceb: i think so
[00:23] <Laurenceb> nice, I didnt realise
[00:23] <akawaka> got it from some guy on #hamradio
[00:23] <Laurenceb> ah
[00:25] <fnoble> Laurenceb, how is the gyro going?
[00:26] <fnoble> i am eagerly awaiting the next foil launch :)
[00:26] <fnoble> it should be exciting
[00:28] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if it can bridge a 132KV line on the way down.
[00:28] <Laurenceb> lol
[00:29] <Laurenceb> well I finished work early... then a bunch of my relatives arrived from the states
[00:29] <Laurenceb> so I've just got back from the pub having had a 2 hour discussion on genomics
[00:30] Action: SpeedEvil sequences Laurenceb.
[00:30] <Laurenceb> hehe
[00:31] <Laurenceb> but the parafoil code is looking good, hopefully as soon as I get some time I can start work on the airframe
[00:31] <fnoble> also just got back from the pub
[00:31] <fnoble> slightly inebreated
[00:31] <Laurenceb> :P
[00:32] <Laurenceb> I just need a new gyro and a decent servo really now
[00:32] <Laurenceb> I've assembled one of the v2 radio boards
[00:32] <Laurenceb> but the code for that needs a bit of attention
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: your old one die?
[00:33] Action: SpeedEvil wants 3-axis gyro chips that you can snap apart into seperate axes.
[00:38] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: yeah, but it was most likely the sparkfun breakout board
[00:39] <Laurenceb> bbl, supper
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[00:47] <fnoble> SpeedEvil, so you are designing a payload to do a balloon launch?
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> fnoble: no.
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> fnoble: I'm doing a UAV - in the future.
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> Balloons don't really interest me.
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> Owing to the whole one-shot nature.
[00:49] <fnoble> SpeedEvil, balloons are fun :)
[00:49] <fnoble> but yes i see the point
[00:52] <fnoble> a UAV would be cool
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> I'm basically trying to get a saleable product - and a functioning UAV is one. A balloon less so.
[00:54] <soneil_> I wonder what kind of indigestion launching a uav from a balloon would cause the CAA (more along the lines of a controlled descent than "dropping things from aircraft", which is a know sore spot)
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> Especially if it lands on your head.
[00:58] <fnoble> soneil_, i know Laurenceb had droped his uav from a balloon before
[00:59] <fnoble> i have a friend who is doing his phd in atmospheric chem using uavs and basically the word is its very dodgy getting permission for a fixed wing
[00:59] <fnoble> but parafoils fall into a loophole
[00:59] <fnoble> :)
[00:59] <Laurenceb> back
[00:59] <Laurenceb> yes, I've dropped 2 uavs
[00:59] <SpeedEvil> If I was making something to be intentionally dropped, I'd want it to be flyable at someone without injury.
[01:00] <Laurenceb> one was fixed wing - it went into a spiral dive and crashed
[01:00] <SpeedEvil> parafoils are nice that way in you don't have enough control authority to do that.
[01:00] <Laurenceb> second was a rogallo which suffered from a power supply failure, but did glide down in a gently manner
[01:00] <fnoble> SpeedEvil, from what i hear it doesnt matter, fixed wing == problesm
[01:01] <Laurenceb> yeah it was dodgy my trying it before
[01:01] <fnoble> SpeedEvil, but i think it may be a case of its not actually illegal
[01:01] <fnoble> SpeedEvil, but if you ask the CAA for permision then they will say no
[01:01] <Laurenceb> and I'm not really thinking of trying again in the near future with fixed
[01:01] <Laurenceb> as its too hard to control
[01:01] <fnoble> SpeedEvil, hence making it illegal, so the best policy is to ask as few questions as poss
[01:03] <Laurenceb> fnoble: I may go with a rogallo for the next launch, I just feel theres less to go wrong
[01:03] <Laurenceb> as its semi rigid it cant tangle up
[01:03] <SpeedEvil> fnoble: I suspect my UAV is also in that space - according to all the various regulations I've read, it's not covered.
[01:04] <fnoble> Laurenceb, edmoore knows of a goodpaper on 'foil control loops
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> fnoble: same approach - and make it as safe as I can.
[01:04] <fnoble> Laurenceb, ask him for it - it documents most of the pitfalls
[01:04] <Laurenceb> sounds worth a read
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> That's one!
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> falling down a pit on landing.
[01:05] <Laurenceb> lol
[01:05] <Laurenceb> but as theres so much to go wrong... I dont know
[01:05] <fnoble> most of the stuff we do doesnt fall into specific legislation
[01:05] <Laurenceb> rogallos are hard to get wrong
[01:05] <fnoble> it depends on who you ask - so ask little and you will get nodody who says you cant do it
[01:05] <edmoore> well, it advocates two important things: get the control loop to hold a bank angle rather than a turn rate (the latter being a function of the former) and also how to station hold/loop in a virtual cylinder as a function of the wind vector
[01:05] <SpeedEvil> The more control authority you have, and the less it's a passive glider, ...
[01:06] <Laurenceb> edmoore: those problems sound familiar
[01:06] <fnoble> its a grey area but i think if you ask the caa they will say no to cover their back and then you are in trouble legally as if someone sues then you have a firm denial from a relavent autority
[01:07] <Laurenceb> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4858664474879256299&q=source:012909491234162429853&hl=en
[01:08] <Laurenceb> ^ something that sort of size is nice to test - around 200 grams total mass
[01:09] <Laurenceb> rather than the bigger things I've tried making that are harder to launch and land safely
[01:10] <SpeedEvil> When it can fly into you, and you say 'ow' is a good point to be at.
[01:10] <fnoble> Laurenceb, that is your one no?
[01:10] <fnoble> im sure ive seen that vid before
[01:11] <Laurenceb> yeah thats one I made
[01:11] <Laurenceb> thats was my balcony last year :D
[01:12] <Laurenceb> that red bull can was emptied then half filled with sand
[01:12] <Laurenceb> IIRC total mass is around 200 grams in that test
[01:13] <Laurenceb> well time to get some sleep, cya all
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[06:13] <ball> hello natrium42
[06:14] <natrium42> hi
[06:18] <ball> Laying down before I fall down.
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[07:57] <natrium42> hey jcoxon
[07:57] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[07:58] <natrium42> could you nopaste the ustream embed code for your channel?
[07:58] <natrium42> i'll add it to the tracker
[07:58] <jcoxon> yup
[07:58] <jcoxon> one sec
[07:58] <natrium42> sure
[08:03] <jcoxon> http://rafb.net/p/cX61Xn75.html
[08:10] <natrium42> jcoxon, ok, it should work
[08:11] <natrium42> do you have a twitter account?
[08:11] <natrium42> i need your twitter nickname
[08:11] <jcoxon> oh right
[08:12] <jcoxon> i don't do twitter :-p
[08:12] <jcoxon> ill sign up
[08:12] <jcoxon> natrium42, you going to be around Sat lunchtime GMT+1?
[08:12] <natrium42> hmm, not sure
[08:13] <natrium42> that's when we will be finishing camping
[08:13] <natrium42> maybe i can find an internet cafe
[08:13] <jcoxon> my username is jamescoxon
[08:14] <natrium42> 5 most recent entries good enough?
[08:14] <natrium42> or do you want more?
[08:14] <jcoxon> nah 5 is fine
[08:14] <natrium42> people can still see all entries on twitter itself
[08:15] <natrium42> k, it's uploaded
[08:15] <natrium42> you're ready to go :)
[08:17] <jcoxon> just setting up my phone
[08:17] <natrium42> k
[08:18] <natrium42> you could post an update to twitter to announce the launch
[08:18] <natrium42> just as a test
[08:19] <jcoxon> just did
[08:20] <jcoxon> will it show the actual messages? as it just shows the link to the twitter page
[08:22] <natrium42> hmm
[08:22] <natrium42> i see a bug
[08:23] <natrium42> fixeed
[08:23] <natrium42> reload the page
[08:23] <jcoxon> ustream works fine
[08:24] <natrium42> can i remove the text underneath chat?
[08:24] <jcoxon> yup, but
[08:24] <jcoxon> one sec while i copy it :-p
[08:24] <natrium42> :)
[08:24] <natrium42> i will just comment it out
[08:24] <jcoxon> done
[08:26] <natrium42> k, removed
[08:27] <jcoxon> natrium42, do you have a counter on the page?
[08:27] <jcoxon> so we can see the sort of traffic?
[08:27] <natrium42> let me check
[08:27] <jcoxon> something like google analytics would work
[08:28] <natrium42> oh, ok
[08:28] <natrium42> i also have awstats and webalizer
[08:28] <jcoxon> sorry, i wasn't very clear :-)
[08:28] <jcoxon> oh then no worries
[08:31] <jcoxon> right i've added my phone
[08:31] <natrium42> to twitter?
[08:32] <jcoxon> yup
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[08:32] <jcoxon> what should we do about hte badger track?
[08:32] <natrium42> do you need it?
[08:33] <natrium42> i can send you the mysql data
[08:33] <jcoxon> if its seperate perhaps take it off
[08:33] <natrium42> i also have it backed up on the old domain
[08:33] <jcoxon> oh perfect
[08:33] <natrium42> so you can just delete it here
[08:33] <jcoxon> would be nice if we could save the tracks and then reload them at a later date
[08:33] <natrium42> yeah, going to add it in soonish
[08:34] <jcoxon> :-D
[08:34] <jcoxon> no hurry
[08:34] <jcoxon> right, i'll delete it now
[08:34] <natrium42> k
[08:36] <natrium42> i added google analytics
[08:36] <jcoxon> it looked lonely without a point
[08:36] <jcoxon> so i added one
[08:36] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:37] <natrium42> lol
[08:37] <natrium42> no pics though :P
[08:37] <jcoxon> let me get this camera first
[08:37] <jcoxon> then i'll do a run through
[08:38] <jcoxon> right time to get the post
[08:38] <jcoxon> back later
[08:38] <natrium42> nice house :D
[08:38] <jcoxon> its my parents
[08:38] <jcoxon> i'm house sitting
[08:39] <natrium42> ah
[08:39] <natrium42> looks like a good balloon launch location
[08:39] <natrium42> if you get a permit
[08:39] <jcoxon> on the ground its great as there aren't any pylons
[08:40] <jcoxon> however there is an enormous helicopeter base a mile away
[08:41] <jcoxon> it makes getting permission a little bit harder
[08:41] <jcoxon> we are going to be launching from Churchill anyway
[08:41] <natrium42> gotcha
[08:42] <jcoxon> actually recently they've been having planes landing, as we are on the flight path we've been getting rattled by the sonic booms
[08:42] <gordonjcp> shouldn't be a sonic boom on *landing*...
[08:42] <jcoxon> they aren't landing
[08:42] <jcoxon> they are being annoying
[08:43] <natrium42> i liked seeing jets when we lived near a US base in germany
[08:43] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:43] <natrium42> :P
[08:43] <jcoxon> they are usually pretty good
[08:43] <jcoxon> its pretty cool to see apaches flying around
[08:43] <jcoxon> will bbiab
[08:44] <natrium42> jcoxon, what's your gmail account again?
[08:44] <natrium42> i can add you to google analytics
[08:44] <natrium42> so that you can see the reports
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[08:47] <gordonjcp> we've had a few chinooks buzzing about
[08:48] <gordonjcp> well, not for a couple of weeks now, but a hell of a lot of activity earlier in the month
[08:48] <natrium42> those look nice in the air
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[09:28] <natrium42> g'nite
[09:30] <edmoore> morning
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[11:02] <jcoxon> damn damn damn
[11:02] <jcoxon> this camera doesn't work
[11:13] <edmoore> hrm
[11:13] <edmoore> poosticks
[11:13] <jcoxon> it takes the pictures
[11:13] <jcoxon> but they are black with purple blurs
[11:13] <edmoore> launch at night and no-one will ever know
[11:13] <edmoore> so id the previous one definitely not fixable?
[11:14] <jcoxon> sounds like ccd damage?
[11:16] <edmoore> don't know
[11:16] <edmoore> probably
[11:17] <jcoxon> so i have a dead camera + a working camea
[11:17] Action: jcoxon does an evil cackle
[11:18] <edmoore> don't do ccd surgary
[11:18] <edmoore> that's madness
[11:19] <edmoore> sugary?
[11:19] <edmoore> my typing is impressionistic
[11:19] <edmoore> relies on bayesian data correction methods to extract the encoded information
[11:21] <jcoxon> ?
[11:23] <edmoore> i don't know either
[11:23] <edmoore> my nylon arrived woo
[11:23] <edmoore> badger truck is officially under construction
[11:23] <edmoore> my I can chronicle this on t'wiki
[11:50] <jcoxon> hmmmm tis the purple ccd of death apparently
[12:06] Nick change: Ei5GTB_ -> EI5GTB
[12:40] <jcoxon> crappty crap crap
[12:40] <jcoxon> not sure what to do
[12:43] <jcoxon> edmoore, sadly i can't perform the ccd surgery
[13:42] <edmoore> jcoxon: how is the ccd attached?
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> The CCD interface is electrically very, very ESD sensitive - with no protection at all.
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> At least on the CCD output lines.
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> If it's CCD of course, which it's probably not.
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> But ESD protection when working on this sort of stuff is vital.
[13:47] <edmoore> oh totally
[13:48] <edmoore> just keep toad on a radiator of the back of a pc case or something
[13:49] <jcoxon> its apparently a common fault with this camea
[13:49] <jcoxon> camera
[13:49] <jcoxon> and if it had a warranty they'd replace it
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[13:49] <jcoxon> but its too old school
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> Replacing bits is a sane way to go about repairs.
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> If all the bits work.
[13:50] <jcoxon> its more that i don't have time
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> Are you sure it's not just the display?
[13:50] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[13:50] <jcoxon> remote capture is the same
[13:50] <jcoxon> so is if it saves to the CF card
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> Do you have an example pic?
[13:52] <jcoxon> not now :-)
[13:52] <jcoxon> but its definitely that error - lots of accounts online of it
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely remember errors that sounded similar due to the encapsulation of the imager being wrong.
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> How did the 'was working' one die?
[13:56] <jcoxon> i might have stripped it down a little too much
[13:56] <jcoxon> it just won't turn on now
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> what was the last bit you removed?
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> And I assume you tried plugging it back in?
[13:57] <jcoxon> actually i didn't remove anything
[13:57] <jcoxon> all i did was bend some metal - it must of screwed with one of the flex cables
[13:58] <jcoxon> howeer it certainly won't work now - my solutions are slightly irreversible
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> Were they straight cables, or flex-PCBs with components on?
[14:00] <jcoxon> both
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> Generally, you can't bend areas with components on at all.
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> Also.
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> If you've now got identical cams, it's worth tracing where the power goes.
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> It may just possibly be that rarest of things, a fuse that's functioned propelr.y
[14:02] <edmoore> svn revert canon
[14:02] <edmoore> would be my solution
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> That too. Take frequent pics of what you're doing.
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[15:17] <edmoore> hi robert1971 and ball
[15:17] <edmoore> jcoxon: latest?
[15:18] <jcoxon> dispair
[15:18] <jcoxon> as i've now worked out what was wrong with the original camera
[15:18] <ball> hello edmoore
[15:18] <jcoxon> and if i hadn't tried to fix it earlier i could have now
[15:18] <jcoxon> :-(
[15:19] <ball> That doesn't sound encouraging. Difficult/impossible to "unfix"?
[15:19] <edmoore> jcoxon: tell
[15:19] <edmoore> many eyeballs and that
[15:21] <jcoxon> the original problem was in the flex pcb that has the on/off switch (which i now have a spare one)
[15:21] <jcoxon> but in my investigation earleir i managed to break one of the connectors on the processing board
[15:21] <jcoxon> its tooo tiny to fix
[15:21] <ball> smt?
[15:21] <edmoore> it *must( be fixable
[15:21] <edmoore> use conductive paint if need be
[15:22] <jcoxon> i'll try and fix it today
[15:22] <ball> SMT's such a pain in the bum.
[15:22] <jcoxon> if i can't then i'll get a new camera tomorrow
[15:22] <jcoxon> (won't rip it apart though!)
[15:23] <ball> What's the electrical connection to the cameras you use? USB?
[15:23] <ball> random parallel?
[15:23] <jcoxon> i'm uing usb from the gumstix
[15:24] <edmoore> jcoxon: yeah - you've got a 900g payload on a 1.2kg balloon. weight is ok
[15:24] <jcoxon> and remote capture
[15:24] <edmoore> remember we broke the alt record with 1.2kg under a 1.2kg balloon
[15:24] <jcoxon> i know
[15:26] <ball> What's your current altitude record?
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: why are you doing remote picture, not simply taking pictures by command of a 555 or something?
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> Oh - the SSTV thing.
[15:29] <edmoore> ball: hrm
[15:30] <ball> 30 km?
[15:31] <edmoore> 32781 I think
[15:31] <edmoore> jcoxon: the nova 7 entry looks a bit odd here http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records
[15:31] <edmoore> something is squewiff
[15:32] <edmoore> given it went higher than nova6
[15:32] <ball> edmoore: very nice.
[15:32] <jcoxon> 33.281 vs 32.461
[15:32] <edmoore> oh sugar, 33281, not 32781
[15:32] <edmoore> I can't read. sorry jcoxon
[15:32] <jcoxon> hehe
[15:32] <jcoxon> no worries - i had to look twice
[15:33] <edmoore> better keep the 1.2 light then
[15:33] <edmoore> gotta get to 40km afterall
[15:33] <jcoxon> haha
[15:33] <edmoore> actually that has just made a design decision for me
[15:33] <edmoore> woop
[15:34] <edmoore> tiny connectors on the pcb to 'proper' connectors on a chasis, like the rail on a PCI card
[15:34] <edmoore> but that chasis bit will be optional to save weight if necessry
[15:34] <edmoore> got some filtered D connectors so the tx and gsm don't wreak havoc on the adc
[15:34] <ball> brb
[15:34] <edmoore> but they're a bit heavy if we're counting the grams
[16:01] <jcoxon> oooooo
[16:01] <jcoxon> something is alive
[16:03] <ball> Can a p5 be used without an HMC?
[16:03] <ball> oops, wrong channel
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[16:40] <edmoore> Grounding fun
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> win log on
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> meh
[16:40] Action: SpeedEvil stabs USB.
[16:43] <jcoxon> nope, its not going to work
[16:43] <jcoxon> oh well
[16:43] <edmoore> grrrrrr
[16:43] <edmoore> more money
[16:43] <jcoxon> i'll pop into town tomorrow and look for a 2nd hand one
[16:43] <edmoore> still. Science!
[16:43] <jcoxon> or
[16:43] <jcoxon> a new one
[16:43] <jcoxon> though a new one is going to be badass overkill
[16:43] <edmoore> gives you something to aim for though
[16:44] <jcoxon> haha
[16:44] <jcoxon> i'll bbl
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[17:04] <robert1971> Hi edmoore
[17:04] <edmoore> hi robert1971
[17:04] <robert1971> Set up my account with BOC hopefully get some Helium next week
[17:05] <edmoore> oh grand
[17:05] <robert1971> Here come the squeeky voices. I wander how much helium is fatal :)
[17:05] <robert1971> Only joking
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> People have died that way!
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> (hahahahahahah)
[17:06] <robert1971> I'm sure they have. It clearly dosn't support life
[17:07] <robert1971> Used to mix trimix for diving.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1021811/Teenager-16-fined-littering---letting-balloon-charity-event.html
[17:09] <robert1971> I jcoxon still on for launch this w/e
[17:09] <robert1971> I = is
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[17:11] <SpeedEvil> Ah yes.
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2006-05.html
[17:13] <SpeedEvil> http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2008-16.html - the priests body has been found.
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[18:18] <edmoore> hi fnoble
[18:25] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[18:26] <edmoore> high speed question: how much cpu time is being used on the 2148 atm?
[18:26] <edmoore> hi
[18:28] <edmoore> all well?
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[18:32] <jcoxon> yup
[18:32] <jcoxon> just doing a test run of the payload minus the camera
[18:34] <jcoxon> hmmmmmmmmm
[18:34] <jcoxon> damn weather
[18:34] <edmoore> what's it doing?
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[18:36] <jcoxon> hmmm sat looks not as great
[18:36] <jcoxon> sunday has improved
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[18:43] <jcoxon> back later
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[19:40] <natrium42> sunday is better for me :P
[19:41] <akawaka> whatever natrium42 wants
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[20:00] <edmoore_> fnoble: ping
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[20:33] <jnd> hi
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[21:24] <fnoble> hello
[21:24] <fnoble> jcoxon, whats the news on sat?
[21:25] <fnoble> i emailed peter kirwan to let him know about it all
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[21:31] <SpeedEvil> http://www.xkcd.com/ :)
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[21:41] <jnd> whats new about the launch?
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[21:48] <fuzzylugnuts> bluetooth
[21:48] <fuzzylugnuts> anyone here use it and very familiar with it?
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Slightly.
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Not very.
[21:49] <fuzzylugnuts> ok
[21:49] <fuzzylugnuts> I want to use it for eliminating a serial cable
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> there are expesive units to do that.
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> 90 quid IIRC for both ends.
[21:50] <fuzzylugnuts> the one thing is a $6,000 trimble gps that has bluetooth built in, so I just need it on one end.
[21:51] <fnoble> fuzzylugnuts, i think SF has a module
[21:51] <fnoble> but never used it
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> you have a computer at the other end?
[21:51] <fuzzylugnuts> fnoble: yeah, I'm looking at it on there
[21:52] <fuzzylugnuts> its a survey meter, for rad survey work. It just spits out a string every second
[21:52] <fnoble> fuzzylugnuts, maybe the problem you will have is that you need to be the master device, not the peripheral
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts: what are you connecting it to?
[21:52] <fuzzylugnuts> a survey meter and gps
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[21:52] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts: on the near end
[21:53] <fuzzylugnuts> the gps has bluetooth built in and runs windows ce or something
[21:53] <fuzzylugnuts> what near end?
[21:53] <fuzzylugnuts> they are both only 2 feet from eachother, but the cables are irritating
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[21:54] <fnoble> ok, so the servey meter would be the peripheral
[21:54] <fuzzylugnuts> Yeah
[21:54] <fuzzylugnuts> it would be the dumb thing
[21:55] <fuzzylugnuts> because all I want to do on that end is turn it on and have the gps be able to connect to it
[21:55] <fnoble> ok, thats easier then i think, setting up your own bluetooth master might have been tricky
[21:55] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[21:55] <fnoble> ok, can you write custom software for the gps?
[21:55] <fuzzylugnuts> no
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> The GPS has no bluetooth input?
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Just serial?
[21:55] <fuzzylugnuts> it does
[21:55] <fnoble> can you tell it to read a bluetooth serial device?
[21:55] <fuzzylugnuts> have bluetooth
[21:56] <fuzzylugnuts> ok, let me back up here
[21:56] <fuzzylugnuts> the gps has bluetooth and serial, but the serial is a hardline and is irritating.
[21:56] <fuzzylugnuts> as of now, the gps connects to the survey meter by the serial cable
[21:57] <fuzzylugnuts> I want to eliminate that cable
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts: where are you?
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> uk?
[21:57] <fnoble> ok, can you tell the gps to read from a bluetooth device rather than the serial port?
[21:57] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm in the us
[21:57] <fuzzylugnuts> fnoble: yes
[21:58] <fuzzylugnuts> fnoble: I want the gps to use the bluetooth like a com port
[21:58] <fuzzylugnuts> but I am more interested on the hardware going into the survey meter
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts:
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> http://img.4chan.org/b/imgboard.html
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> err
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.wcscnet.com/HdwBTRS232.htm
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> I mean
[21:58] <fnoble> ok, i dont know enough to say if it will come up as a com port automatically but i think there are modules to take serial and output bluetooth
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> That is simply a serial wire connected over bluetooth for $150
[21:59] <fuzzylugnuts> fnoble: Yeah, I was looking at the http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8332
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> For both ends
[21:59] <fuzzylugnuts> cost means diddly
[21:59] <fuzzylugnuts> this is gov funded
[22:00] <fuzzylugnuts> the gps alone cost 6 grand
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Then the link I mentioned seems suitable perhaps.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> As it's a dumb plug-play solution.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Oh.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Opwer.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Poert.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Power.
[22:00] <fuzzylugnuts> hmm
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> It needs 90mA at 5-9V at each end
[22:00] <fuzzylugnuts> no prob
[22:01] <fuzzylugnuts> can I just use 1 and have the gps connect to it?
[22:01] <fuzzylugnuts> or are they only functional as a pair
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> Unsure how it'd pair with a GPS.
[22:02] <fuzzylugnuts> hmm
[22:02] <fuzzylugnuts> Oooh
[22:02] <fuzzylugnuts> it says in the description
[22:02] <fuzzylugnuts> can be used
[22:02] <fuzzylugnuts> win!
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> Down;load and read the manual first.
[22:03] <fuzzylugnuts> Yeah
[22:03] <fuzzylugnuts> but that looks like what I was looking for
[22:03] <fuzzylugnuts> iogear had a similar one I was going to get
[22:04] <fuzzylugnuts> Oh, here's another question........ bluetooth audio
[22:04] <fuzzylugnuts> if I have BT headphones, is it somewhat easy to have a host for them?
[22:05] <fuzzylugnuts> I just need to transmit the clicks from the meter
[22:05] <fnoble> fuzzylugnuts, what is this going to be used for? actual servey work?
[22:05] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[22:05] <jcoxon> hey fnoble
[22:06] <fnoble> ooh, jcoxon, what news?
[22:06] <fuzzylugnuts> and by survey, I'm talking about scanning for radioactive things, not survey with a transit
[22:06] <jcoxon> fnoble, well on the camera front - had lots of problems as the new camera arrived pretty much dead - going to get another one tomorrow
[22:06] <RocketBoy1> jcoxon:I finally got it to compile and run
[22:07] <jcoxon> RocketBoy1, excellent
[22:07] <jcoxon> launchwise - saturday isn't looking great but sunday is
[22:07] <RocketBoy1> seems to take about 1sec on a crappy old celeron machine
[22:07] <jcoxon> was going to email around tonight suggesting we postpone
[22:07] <fnoble> fuzzylugnuts, what wrong with a speaker :) lets people around you know what your up to
[22:08] <jcoxon> RocketBoy1, to process a picture?
[22:08] <fnoble> jcoxon, ok, you are sure?
[22:08] <RocketBoy1> yep
[22:08] <fnoble> shall i change the notam notice and email kirwan?
[22:08] <jcoxon> fnoble, could you have a look at hte wunderground maps?
[22:08] <jcoxon> what do you think
[22:08] <fuzzylugnuts> fnoble: headphones allow better detection of rate increase, plus there are often a few people in the field next to you, so cross-talk is an issue
[22:09] <jcoxon> RocketBoy1, oh right, thats a suprise
[22:09] <RocketBoy1> jcoxon: is that typical for that sort of machine
[22:09] <RocketBoy1> ?
[22:09] <jcoxon> thats quite fast
[22:09] <jcoxon> when the guy who wrote it was testing it, it took a bit longer
[22:09] <fnoble> jcoxon, it takes 0,6s on my eee
[22:09] <fnoble> (with the change, 0.99s without)
[22:10] <jcoxon> hmmmmmm
[22:10] <jcoxon> how strange
[22:10] <jcoxon> really need to test this but its not worth it till i have a camera
[22:11] <fnoble> fuzzylugnuts, ok i see, cool, not idea about bluetooth audio host though
[22:11] <fnoble> *no
[22:11] <fuzzylugnuts> fnoble: Ok, thanks you guys, it helps alot and really reduces how much time I have to spend figuring out all this crap
[22:11] <fnoble> does the gps have an audio out that could be routed through bluetooth?
[22:12] <fuzzylugnuts> hmm
[22:12] <fuzzylugnuts> I think it only has the capability to use bluetooth devices as com ports
[22:13] <fnoble> it might be hard to generate the clicks again with enough resolution though, if the meter only spits out a reading peiodically
[22:14] <fuzzylugnuts> fnoble: the meter's audio system is totally separate, its real time... when it detects a gamma it clicks, like a geiger counter
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts: yes
[22:16] <fnoble> fuzzylugnuts, yeah i know, i have used various survey meters
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts: there are headphones with integrated little 'plugs' that you stick a 3.5mm socket in.
[22:17] <fnoble> jcoxon, its a hard one to call
[22:17] <fnoble> jcoxon, saturday is stronger but better direction maybe
[22:18] <jcoxon> i'm getting lots of purple on sunday
[22:18] <jcoxon> and the wyoming traj is very nice
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts: http://www.amazon.com/Shown-SoundKase-Bluetooth-Headphone-Player/dp/B000JDUHTM/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&s=apparel&qid=1219353466&sr=8-16
[22:18] <fnoble> jcoxon, have you tried putting it through univ wyoming?
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts: there are cheaper ones
[22:18] <jcoxon> fnoble, yup :-)
[22:18] <fnoble> jcoxon, ok cool
[22:18] <fuzzylugnuts> SpeedEvil: dang, thats awesome
[22:18] <jcoxon> saturday has it landing in kent, sunday in suffolk
[22:19] <fnoble> jcoxon, ill let peter kirwan know then
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> I'd pick it up if it gets to fife :)
[22:19] <jcoxon> RocketBoy1?
[22:21] <fnoble> edmoore, you here?
[22:22] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.trimble.com/geoxt.shtml thats the gps's that we use
[22:23] <fnoble> fuzzylugnuts, talking of survey meters, i had a ludlum model 3 and the engineering dept threw it away :(
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> ...
[22:24] <fuzzylugnuts> fnoble: monsters!
[22:24] <fuzzylugnuts> fnoble: we use 2221s and model 12s mostly
[22:24] <fuzzylugnuts> some bicron ion chambers, and various probes
[22:25] <fnoble> cool, this was for a BF3 tube
[22:25] <fuzzylugnuts> ahh, groovy
[22:25] <fnoble> i dont think ill replace it though, might try and get some second hand NIM gear instead
[22:26] <fuzzylugnuts> I picked up 2 enriched bf3's at the national lab's auction, never used them yet
[22:26] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah!
[22:26] <fnoble> awesome, lucky find
[22:26] <fuzzylugnuts> totally
[22:26] <fuzzylugnuts> I have an oldish linear amp that I got there, but i don't know if it works
[22:27] <fnoble> have been toying with the idea of making a diy MCA, but it think it might be a bit of a challenge for me
[22:27] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah, that gets a bit hairy
[22:27] <fnoble> (and not really needed for neutrons)
[22:27] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[22:28] <fuzzylugnuts> I would totally spooge over a MCA-3 from fastcomtek
[22:28] Action: SpeedEvil wants a nice scope.
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> And a spectrum analyser.
[22:28] <fuzzylugnuts> hehe
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> And a CVD setup, and a filliment winder.
[22:28] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[22:29] <fuzzylugnuts> hehe
[22:29] <fuzzylugnuts> I got one of these for my lab when I hired in: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PDN0R2
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> Something like that.
[22:30] <fnoble> i also had a full nim bin of random stuff that got thrown out with the ludlum, sucks
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> Haha.
[22:30] <fuzzylugnuts> they declined my request for a DSA-1000 from canberra
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> i love the category.
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> 'home improvement'.
[22:31] <fuzzylugnuts> fnoble: ;_;! that is so lame
[22:31] <fnoble> we were storing some fusor gear in a cupboard and when we got back from hools they had stripped out the whole floor and the cupboard and contents were gone
[22:31] <fuzzylugnuts> arg
[22:31] <fnoble> fuzzylugnuts, luckily we found the pumps, camber and tranny under a tarp outside
[22:31] <fuzzylugnuts> jeez
[22:32] <fnoble> waiting for the next skip to come i guess
[22:32] <fuzzylugnuts> that would really piss me off
[22:32] <fuzzylugnuts> heh
[22:32] <fuzzylugnuts> thats aweful
[22:32] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.ornl.gov/adm/property/saleDetails.shtml
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/View-oscilloscope-showing-voltage-trace/dp/B001D8QPIE/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=kitchen&qid=1219354336&sr=8-10
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> Insanity!
[22:32] <fuzzylugnuts> thats the auction I go to. If you click auction list, all the good stuff is in the 500's
[22:32] <fuzzylugnuts> whaaaaat
[22:32] Action: SpeedEvil wishes for decent auctions nearby.
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> ebay is about it.
[22:34] <fnoble> hehe, you could get a real scope and function generator for that price
[22:35] <fuzzylugnuts> I forget which function generator I ordered
[22:35] <fuzzylugnuts> it takes forever for the gov to get anything procured : P
[22:36] <fnoble> found an arbitrary wavform gen lying around in the lab today
[22:36] <fnoble> might have to go missing :)
[22:37] <fuzzylugnuts> : O
[22:37] <fuzzylugnuts> sweet
[22:37] <fnoble> only 10mhz so nothing fancy
[22:37] <fuzzylugnuts> oh, fnoble: they are still trying to sell a 100kv, 0.5ma dc power supply
[22:38] <jcoxon> fnoble, so you'll call them tomorrow about churchill?
[22:38] <fnoble> jcoxon, yeah will do
[22:38] <jcoxon> cool cool
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts: I wonder how bad the ones out of china are.
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300251174689&ih=020&category=45008&_trksid=p1742.m153.l1262
[22:38] <fuzzylugnuts> you can find out : P
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> True.
[22:39] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm not touching them
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Sold as fully working with a 7 day right of return if dissatisfied If bidding from outwith UK additional shipping cost forms part of the contract. If unsure email me before bidding.
[22:40] <fuzzylugnuts> I wonder if they would pay shipping
[22:40] <fnoble> SpeedEvil, for that price you could prob pickup an old tek scope, which i would trust a lot more
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> BINs from buisness sellers are covered by the distance sellers regulations, by which they have to.
[22:40] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[22:40] <jcoxon> night all
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> Night.
[22:41] <fnoble> night
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[22:44] <SpeedEvil> fnoble: as to price - Seems about a 25-30% premium on 'new' chinese scopes vs old HP
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> /...
[22:44] <fnoble> SpeedEvil, go for the old HP and use the change to get some decent probes
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> fnoble: there is that. But there is also if the new scope has better outputs (USB, ...), works better, and has a guarantee...
[22:52] <fnoble> SpeedEvil, i guess so
[22:52] <fnoble> but i wouldnt be so sure about it working better - those older scope will outlive you
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> Will they?
[22:52] <fnoble> but usb is nice yeah
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> By USB, I don't mean USB.
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> I mean something other then IEEEwhatever
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> And 2K sample memories.
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[22:53] <fnoble> just my opinion
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> If the old gear was half the price, it'd be a no-brainer.
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> And I agree that scopes of the (say) 70s may be mostly bulletproof. Does that still apply to scopes made in 85/90?
[22:55] <fuzzylugnuts> a guy gave me an oooooooldie, and when I turned it on the tubes warmed up and it smelled like baking cat piss
[22:56] Action: SpeedEvil asks question of above ebay seller if he's got manual.
[22:56] <fnoble> fuzzylugnuts, my scope is tube throughout :) anda little dodgy i admit
[22:56] <fuzzylugnuts> hehe
[22:56] <fuzzylugnuts> still neat stuff
[22:56] <fnoble> but i think even in its day it want a quality unit
[22:57] <fnoble> sometimes the dot gets stuck at the edge of the screen and makes a crackling noise
[22:57] <fnoble> but a good blow to the side and its right as rain
[22:57] <fnoble> :)
[22:58] <fuzzylugnuts> haha...
[23:05] <fnoble> fuzzylugnuts, lots of good looking stuff in that auction
[23:06] <fnoble> how much does the average skid go for?
[23:09] <fuzzylugnuts> depends
[23:09] <fuzzylugnuts> I got a crapload of scrablepads and HID readers for $40, and some skids go for 200
[23:09] <fuzzylugnuts> one with alot of chemistry stuff on it went for 800
[23:11] <fuzzylugnuts> there was a 30W argon laser there at one point
[23:11] <fuzzylugnuts> with power supply
[23:11] <fuzzylugnuts> the head was 8ft long
[23:11] <fnoble> wow
[23:11] <fnoble> i wish we had these in the uk
[23:11] <fuzzylugnuts> I bet
[23:11] <fnoble> by the time you get something shipped its not so much of a bargain
[23:12] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah :(
[23:12] <fuzzylugnuts> they had a bigass set of variacs at one point too
[23:12] <fuzzylugnuts> big steering wheel style knobs
[23:13] <fnoble> sweet
[23:14] <fuzzylugnuts> I'll give you guys first dibs if I end up with a pallet of crap that I don't want
[23:15] <fuzzylugnuts> I gave away all the stuff I din't want last time
[23:15] <fuzzylugnuts> it was a bunch of security system enclosures
[23:15] <fnoble> cool, thanks
[23:15] <fuzzylugnuts> and ADT magnetic reed switches
[23:15] <fuzzylugnuts> np
[23:16] <fuzzylugnuts> alot of guys are just scrappers
[23:16] <fuzzylugnuts> they take away all the server racks to be melted ;_;
[23:16] <fnoble> thats a shame
[23:17] <fnoble> they are really overpriced for the metal content in them
[23:19] <fuzzylugnuts> yah
[23:20] <gordonjcp> people who scrap old computer equipment for the gold really piss me off
[23:20] <gordonjcp> I offered someone 50 quid for a pile of old PDP11 and VAX bits
[23:20] <gordonjcp> oh no, they've got gold in them, they're going to the scrapper
[23:21] <gordonjcp> ... who gave him a tenner for the lot
[23:21] <gordonjcp> snipped off the gold contact edges of the board and handed him back the rest of the boards
[23:21] <gordonjcp> "Don't want those, I can't get rid of the fibreglass"
[23:22] <fuzzylugnuts> hhaa
[23:22] <fuzzylugnuts> pwned
[23:22] <gordonjcp> :-/
[23:22] <gordonjcp> damn shame
[23:22] <gordonjcp> I could actually have used those bits
[23:22] <gordonjcp> no fucking use to me now though
[23:23] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> gordonjcp: I have a P70 that you could have if you uplift it.
[23:23] <gordonjcp> P70?
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> It's got some gold on it.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Pentium 70.
[23:23] <gordonjcp> I'm up to my arse in old PCs
[23:23] <gordonjcp> I'd actually pay someone about 50 quid to take them away
[23:24] <fnoble> gordonjcp, do you have any real vintage stuff like a PDP11?
[23:25] <gordonjcp> fnoble: yes
[23:25] <gordonjcp> I have an 11/73
[23:25] <fnoble> waay cool
[23:25] <gordonjcp> I used to have a Microvax II and a Microvax 3300
[23:26] <fuzzylugnuts> I have an old WOPR
[23:26] <fuzzylugnuts> its good for playing games on
[23:26] <gordonjcp> I ended up giving the Vaxes away
[23:31] <RocketBoy1> hey a 11/73 - one of the first computers I used back in 1982
[23:32] <RocketBoy1> Xenix methinks
[23:34] <gordonjcp> wouldn't have been Xenix
[23:34] <gordonjcp> Ultrix possibly
[23:35] <RocketBoy1> possibly - or possibly it wasn't a 11/73 but a 11/73 clone IIR
[23:35] <gordonjcp> well
[23:36] <gordonjcp> mine is an OEM PDP-11/73 built by Baydel
[23:36] <gordonjcp> it uses a DEC CPU card, and a couple of DEC disc controllers
[23:36] <gordonjcp> specifically the controllers for the RX02s and RL02s
[23:36] <gordonjcp> all the rest is OEM
[23:37] <RocketBoy1> yeah somthingit like that seems to ring a bell - it wasn't mine - I was just one of a team using
[23:37] <RocketBoy1> it
[23:38] <RocketBoy1> seem to recall xenix though
[23:38] <RocketBoy1> think it had about 64K of memory
[23:39] <gordonjcp> hm
[23:39] <RocketBoy1> ran xenix for 6 or so programmers
[23:39] <RocketBoy1> possibly 128k
[23:39] <gordonjcp> well Xenix was IIRC for Intel
[23:39] <gordonjcp> 128k would be a pretty minimal config for an 11/73, even in '82
[23:40] <gordonjcp> I mean my 11/73 was new in '86 as far as I can tell, and had a base spec of 1M
[23:40] <gordonjcp> 1M*word*, at that
[23:41] <gordonjcp> next time I'm home I should gather up all the 41256s I can find and upgrade the old beast to the full-on 4Mword config
[23:43] <RocketBoy1> humm seem to remember a company call darcrest supplying it and supporting the OS
[23:45] <fuzzylugnuts> RocketBoy1: ever end up using those ultralife batteries?
[23:45] <RocketBoy1> most of them - i still have a few left
[23:46] <fuzzylugnuts> Cool
[23:46] <fuzzylugnuts> glad you got some use out of them
[23:46] Action: gordonjcp -> bed
[23:46] <RocketBoy1> mostly sold 9not for profit) to rocketry types
[23:47] <fuzzylugnuts> hehe
[23:47] <RocketBoy1> anyone left that has used qsstv?
[23:48] <RocketBoy1> ah well off to bed then
[23:48] <RocketBoy1> cu
[23:48] RocketBoy1 (n=andy@217.47.75.27) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[23:53] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Connection timed out
[23:58] <fuzzylugnuts> silicone self-sealing tape ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuules
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> One ring (of self-sealing tape) to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them.
[23:59] <fuzzylugnuts> kinky
[00:00] --- Fri Aug 22 2008