highaltitude.log.20080816

[00:03] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.pbq-batteries.com/Datasheets/Lithium/ER/ER26500M.pdf
[00:03] <fuzzylugnuts> check out the voltage discharge curve
[00:04] <fergusnoble> wow
[00:04] <fuzzylugnuts> sooo flat
[00:08] <fuzzylugnuts> and those high power ones can handle up to an amp
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[00:09] <fuzzylugnuts> what irony. I can't find a place that sells them
[00:17] <Laurenceb> hmm this is interesting
[00:17] <Laurenceb> just been experimenting with bc108 level convertors, cant get about 38400 baud
[00:18] <Laurenceb> despite the transition frequency of the bc108 being in the hundereds of mhz range
[00:18] <fuzzylugnuts> weird
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> Do you ahve a diagram of what you're attempting?
[00:19] <Laurenceb> will try with others from my box
[00:19] <Laurenceb> rs232 -- diode --- 1K --- base1
[00:19] <Laurenceb> 5v --- 1k -- collector1
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> Put another 1K from base to emitter
[00:20] <Laurenceb> 5v --- 1k --- collecotr2
[00:20] <Laurenceb> collector1-----2k2 ----base2
[00:20] <Laurenceb> collector2--- rs232 out
[00:20] <fuzzylugnuts> heh
[00:20] <Laurenceb> emittors 1 and 2 to gnd
[00:21] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: why?
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> It decreases storage time.
[00:21] <Laurenceb> whats storage time?
[00:22] <Laurenceb> these are bjt
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> You're turning it on enough that you've jammed lots of electrons into the base. It's acting like a capacitor.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> If you don't have an easy path for these out, they just sit there for a while, and it's really slow to turn off.
[00:22] <Laurenceb> even with a bjt?
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> yes
[00:22] <Laurenceb> interesting
[00:23] <Laurenceb> thanks for that
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> I assume you don't have a scope?
[00:24] <Laurenceb> yeah, so annoying
[00:24] <Laurenceb> I'll buy one - should have some grant money through in a week or two :D
[00:25] Action: SpeedEvil wants agilent vouchers.
[00:25] <Laurenceb> would you recommend a usb scope or normal one ?
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> I would recommend a nice agilent scope.
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> They are only a few K.
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> :/
[00:25] Action: Laurenceb jams more resistors into his breadboard
[00:25] <Laurenceb> only ?!
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> On the other hand.
[00:27] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: i would recomment an old analogue one
[00:27] <fergusnoble> cheap and robust
[00:27] <fergusnoble> and more speed for your buck
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/_W0QQ_fromZR46?_nkw=475+oscilloscope&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> I've got one of these.
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> And find it almost adequate.
[00:29] <SpeedEvil> almost as in I want an 84GHz digital one really.
[00:31] <fuzzylugnuts> *orderes a few of those high capacity batteries*
[00:31] <Laurenceb> hmm I cant really test this very well
[00:32] <Laurenceb> but I now have 115200 working vaguely well
[00:32] <Laurenceb> so how do I pick the right resistor value?
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> Basically any in a large range of values will work.
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[00:33] <Laurenceb> from the datasheet the capacitance ~ 10pf ?
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> Probably in the range 50-1K or so will show some benefit.
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[00:34] <fuzzylugnuts> hmm, closing leaves the channel, too.
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[00:38] <Laurenceb> no I cant see a noticable improvement with a 1K to gnd
[00:38] <Laurenceb> from base
[00:38] <Laurenceb> bbl
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> Oh well
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> On reflection it should be lots faster than 9600 even without the resistor
[00:41] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=559
[00:41] <fuzzylugnuts> any of you folks use that?
[00:44] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
[00:45] <fuzzylugnuts> its going to be that or the MaxStream Xtend for communication with the flight computer
[00:46] <SpeedEvil> In general, you lose lots and lots of range using the integrated reciever.
[00:47] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah.... I'm looking for a drop in module
[00:49] <fuzzylugnuts> though I am getting one of these: http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/amps/2671.html
[00:50] <fuzzylugnuts> that would be a siiick ground amplifier
[00:50] <fuzzylugnuts> if it switched fast enough for the transciever
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[01:02] <fuzzylugnuts> *places a bigass sparkfun order*
[01:14] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[01:14] <SpeedEvil> I wondered why my foot was warm.
[01:15] <SpeedEvil> It was because I was standing on my laptop.
[01:15] <fuzzylugnuts> haha
[01:15] <SpeedEvil> Fortunately, I have a spare.
[01:16] <fuzzylugnuts> that still sucks
[01:16] <SpeedEvil> Yup.
[01:27] <Laurenceb> back
[01:27] <Laurenceb> broken?
[01:28] <Laurenceb> I just worked out what my problem was - the rs232 cable is several meters long and trailing around my desk - it'll have quite a high capacitance as I'm obviously not doing impedance matching or any fancyness
[01:29] <Laurenceb> so thats whats messing up the data at higher baudrates
[01:29] <Laurenceb> I should have though of it earlier :/
[01:32] <Laurenceb> fergusnoble: whats that maxim ic ?
[01:33] <fergusnoble> max3235 iirc
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[01:37] <Laurenceb> bah 20 pin
[01:37] Action: Laurenceb wanted something small
[01:37] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: your output cable?
[01:38] <Laurenceb> a d sub 9 pin to stereo adaptor
[01:38] <Laurenceb> about 2 m long
[01:41] <Laurenceb> gtg, cya all
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[01:54] <fuzzylugnuts> 428w peltiers are fun
[02:15] <Jos> yup
[02:16] <Jos> if you can properly cool them
[02:16] <Jos> and feed them
[02:17] <fuzzylugnuts> I want to use it as part of a TEC generator
[02:17] <fuzzylugnuts> but i couldn't help powering it for a sec
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[02:50] Nick change: Jos -> jos
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[07:34] <natrium42> hi
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[07:44] <jcoxon> hey all
[07:44] <natrium42> hey jcoxon
[07:44] <jcoxon> hey
[07:44] <natrium42> any news?
[07:45] <jcoxon> on what?
[07:45] <natrium42> camera front?
[07:45] <jcoxon> oh
[07:45] <jcoxon> ummm
[07:45] <jcoxon> it hasn't arrived and i have a horrible feeling its been sent to my flat in london
[07:45] <jcoxon> (i'm house sitting for my parents)
[07:46] <natrium42> k
[07:46] <jcoxon> which is not good as it'll get returned to the delivery place
[07:46] <natrium42> so no launch this weekend?
[07:46] <jcoxon> next weekend
[07:46] <natrium42> nice, ok
[07:46] <jcoxon> but i'm a bit worried about htis camera
[07:47] <jcoxon> oh the lack of
[07:48] <natrium42> you can always use the webcam, can't you?
[07:48] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:51] <natrium42> bed time, gnite
[07:51] <jcoxon> night
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[09:10] <jcoxon> morning again
[09:11] <gordonjcp> morning
[09:16] <jcoxon> oh wow
[09:16] <jcoxon> those radio modules have just arrived
[09:19] <jcoxon> and the new camera
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[09:28] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[09:29] <edmoore> morning jcoxon
[09:29] <jcoxon> hows things?
[09:31] <gordonjcp> hey edmoore
[09:32] <jcoxon> hmmmm this powershot requires 4 AA batteries or 4.3v dc
[09:37] <edmoore> all well, going to bridge wlan to ethernet today
[09:38] <jcoxon> oooo good luck
[09:38] <edmoore> attemp 2, anyway. attempt 1 hosed the system
[09:38] <edmoore> also designing badger truck parachutes for manufacture
[09:40] <akawaka> good morning
[09:40] Action: jcoxon likes people who put detailed guides on how to disassemble cameras
[09:40] <edmoore> lol
[09:40] <akawaka> i can only imagine how difficult this stuff would be without the internet
[09:40] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:41] <akawaka> you wouldn't even know it was difficult cos you wouldn't have seen me say that
[09:41] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:41] <akawaka> unless this was fidonet or something
[09:41] <akawaka> and then i would have said: i can only imagine how difficult this stuff would be without fidonet
[09:41] Action: akawaka needs sleep
[09:42] <edmoore> yes
[09:42] <jcoxon> and before we know it we'll be back to writing letters
[09:42] <edmoore> jcoxon: I do like dokuwiki, having been looking at it more
[09:42] <jcoxon> i saw you edited the wiki
[09:42] <jcoxon> :-D
[09:43] <jcoxon> its nice and simple
[09:43] <edmoore> oh I plan to actually start editing stuff properly
[09:43] <jcoxon> cool cool
[09:43] <edmoore> for stuff at this scale it's pretty neat
[09:44] <akawaka> what kind of camera(s) are you using thisa launch?
[09:44] <jcoxon> ummm, doug has got an Powershot A560 i think running chdk
[09:44] <jcoxon> and i'm planning to hack up an old A60 instead of the webcam
[09:45] <jcoxon> might actually get a reasonable picture
[09:48] <akawaka> thought about shooting in RAW mode?
[09:50] <edmoore> cars would be full within an hour
[09:52] <akawaka> it would be interesting to get chdk to take a few raws at altitude
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[12:05] <Laurenceb> hi all
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[12:22] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[12:22] <edmoore> ello
[12:23] <Laurenceb> hmm my lassen seems to have a lock - 4 sats
[12:23] <Laurenceb> but the floating point numbers are screwy
[12:23] <edmoore> good news, surely?
[12:23] <edmoore> oh
[12:23] <edmoore> how screwey?
[12:23] <Laurenceb> around 10^12
[12:23] <Laurenceb> and flying all over the place
[12:24] <Laurenceb> maybe an endianess problem or something?
[12:24] <edmoore> yes quite possibly
[12:25] <edmoore> see if you can sanitize the results by playing with byte order and endianess
[12:25] <Laurenceb> actually.... status is still indicating no lock
[12:25] <edmoore> I'm going to have a shower bbl
[12:25] <Laurenceb> k
[12:25] <Laurenceb> does your's give wacky data before getting a lock?
[12:34] <Laurenceb> woops I'm overwriting an area of ram
[12:34] <Laurenceb> not a good plan for stable performance
[12:37] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: i had quite a few endianess problems with the lassen tsip data
[12:38] <fergusnoble> want my code?
[12:39] <Laurenceb> yes thanx
[12:40] <Laurenceb> packet 0x4A is latitude longitude altitude time ?
[12:40] <Laurenceb> or time offset?
[12:41] <Laurenceb> got blocked sorry
[12:42] <Laurenceb> go to 99
[12:43] <fergusnoble> the code isnt the cleanest and is written within the structure of a tnkernel task
[12:44] <fergusnoble> but you should be able to extract the relevent bits
[12:45] <fergusnoble> also it uses a bodge to sort the endiness in one of the packets which will be specific to ARM
[12:45] <Laurenceb> right
[12:46] <Laurenceb> well I spotted an error in my code which mean the pointers were missaligned and ram was being overwritten
[12:46] <Laurenceb> just reflashed
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[12:47] <Laurenceb> and guess what now I can only get 2 sats
[12:47] <Laurenceb> grrrr
[12:48] Action: Laurenceb waits for more sats
[12:49] <fergusnoble> actually it should be ok as both arv and arm are little endian iirc
[12:49] <fergusnoble> also that code is designed to put the gps in double precision mode
[12:50] <Laurenceb> is tsip little endian?
[12:50] <fergusnoble> btw, a packet 0x4A is a single precision position fix
[12:50] <Laurenceb> sure
[12:50] <Laurenceb> thats what I want
[12:52] <Laurenceb> hmm you reverse the order of the bytes?
[12:52] <Laurenceb> packet_data[9] = packet_data[7]; ect ?
[12:52] <fergusnoble> only on the double precision packet
[12:52] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:52] <fergusnoble> yeah its a horrible horrible bodge
[12:53] <Laurenceb> :P
[12:53] <Laurenceb> I like the tnkernel stuff
[12:53] <Laurenceb> looks neat
[12:53] <Laurenceb> down to one sat here :/
[12:53] <Laurenceb> need 3 for a lock
[12:53] <fergusnoble> yeah
[12:54] <Laurenceb> have you looked at my code?
[12:54] <Laurenceb> I tried to use pointers
[12:54] <fergusnoble> i think there is a combination of what endianess the lassen is using combined with what order bytes are sent in over the serial
[12:54] <Laurenceb> and stuff the bytes from the uart straight into the struct
[12:54] <fergusnoble> as im sure the double precision packet doesnt conform to an IEEE standard float under either endianess
[12:55] <Laurenceb> do you think it will work?
[12:57] <fergusnoble> the code looks good
[12:58] <fergusnoble> think we took a similar approch
[12:58] <edmoore> afternoon al
[12:59] <fergusnoble> only i wrote all the data from the packet into a buffer and then cast a pointer to that buffer to a struc
[12:59] <fergusnoble> and the struct is the same structure as a tsip packet
[12:59] <fergusnoble> edmoore: hello
[13:00] <fergusnoble> ooh play about balloons on r4 at 2
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[13:50] <Laurenceb> back
[13:50] <Laurenceb> was listening to r4 just
[13:50] <Laurenceb> but a play about balloons ?!
[13:53] <Laurenceb> so, do you change the order of the bytes at all?
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[13:54] <Laurenceb> or is it just (e.g 0x4A) byte 0 to latitude byte 0
[13:55] <Laurenceb> byte 1 to latitude byte 2 and byte 4 to longitude byte 0 ect
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[13:57] <Laurenceb> edmoore_: about?
[13:57] <edmoore_> Laurenceb: yes
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[13:57] <Laurenceb> me and fergus were just talking about the lassen
[13:57] <Laurenceb> do you change the order of the bytes?
[13:58] <Laurenceb> or is it byte 0 of the 0x4A packet to first byte of latitude and so forth ?
[13:59] <edmoore_> not off the top of my head, I'm afraid
[14:00] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[14:07] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: look at my code
[14:07] <fergusnoble> you put the bytes in the struct in reverse order
[14:07] <fergusnoble> but then you dont have to swap any bytes
[14:08] <fergusnoble> its really wierd
[14:09] <Laurenceb> so you swap the order of the bytes but not the bits within them?
[14:09] <fergusnoble> yes, that is what endianness is
[14:10] <Laurenceb> so you need to swap around the order of the bytes for each float?
[14:12] <Laurenceb> wherabouts do you swap the order?
[14:17] <fergusnoble> what i do is read the bytes into the buffer in reverse order
[14:17] <Laurenceb> for the entire packet or what?
[14:17] <Laurenceb> you mean just for ech float
[14:17] <fergusnoble> for the entire packet
[14:18] <fergusnoble> and then reverse the order of the fields within the packet
[14:18] <Laurenceb> ah got you
[14:18] <fergusnoble> so this effectively just swaps the byes in each float
[14:18] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:19] <Laurenceb> looks like avr is the same - I'll manually swap some of the data I recorded earlier
[14:19] <Laurenceb> and see if it works
[14:19] <fergusnoble> yup
[14:19] <Laurenceb> thanks
[14:19] <fergusnoble> there is some good website i found that lets you plat with IEEE floats at the bit or byte level
[14:19] <fergusnoble> *play
[14:19] <Laurenceb> yeah, I found it too :P
[14:22] <Laurenceb> this lassen isnt too bad - I have 4 sats from my windowsill now - better than my sirf2 that has a much larger ant
[14:23] <fergusnoble> cool
[14:23] <Laurenceb> bah hyperterminal has screwed everything
[14:25] <edmoore> why is apache down
[14:25] <edmoore> I don't like it when restarting something makes it work
[14:26] <edmoore> ok for windows, not for apache
[14:27] <Laurenceb> he
[14:27] <Laurenceb> its so annoying not being able to scroll up in hyperterminal
[14:27] <edmoore> can you not?
[14:28] <Laurenceb> you can but the scrollback is garbled
[14:28] <edmoore> I hate not being able to scroll when consoling into my machine directly. ssh is so much better as you can scroll
[14:29] <edmoore> when directly plugged into the server, I tend to do blah > blahlog.txt and review it in vi, where I can scroll. but it's a bodgey solution
[14:30] <Laurenceb> I was just using it for serial comms to my uC
[14:32] <Laurenceb> hmm if I reverse the order of the data in my struct, then write into it backwards... sould work
[14:33] <fergusnoble> Laurenceb: the play is starting now
[14:33] <edmoore> Laurenceb: when is the next launch? It's been a while (not that we can talk, really)
[14:34] <Laurenceb> god knows
[14:35] <Laurenceb> should have some time when I start down in guildford in october
[14:35] <Laurenceb> but right now its chaos... luckly I have this afternoon off
[14:36] <Laurenceb> we were supposed to be finished this week, but the deadline for completion has been extended to the start of october - so I'll probably have no free time whatsoever :(
[14:37] <edmoore> sigh
[14:37] <Laurenceb> hehe
[14:37] <edmoore> well, useful that you'll be in guildford
[14:37] <edmoore> I'll be visiting
[14:37] <Laurenceb> :D
[14:37] <edmoore> some good pubs around there too
[14:37] <edmoore> have you sorted accomodation?
[14:37] <Laurenceb> yeah - I managed to get a room on campus
[14:38] <Laurenceb> hopefully there wont be tons of annoying undergrads
[14:38] <edmoore> look at you
[14:38] <RocketBoy> ppppphrrat - r4 have the wrong play on - this one was scheduled for last week
[14:39] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:39] <edmoore> you've been a graduate for all of a few weeks, haven't even started post-grad, and are whinging about undergrads
[14:40] <fergusnoble> RocketBoy: are you going up to scotland next w/e?
[14:40] <Laurenceb> I'll be living here: http://www.surrey.ac.uk/virtualtour/qtvr/panorama.php?id=5
[14:41] <Laurenceb> it looks more like an office block
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[14:44] <RocketBoy> fergusnoble: nope - missing it this year
[14:48] <Laurenceb> noob question: can a char be negative?
[14:48] <Laurenceb> and what about an array index?
[14:48] <edmoore_> i think on some compilers it is by default
[14:48] <edmoore_> and you declare specifically unsigned char
[14:49] <Laurenceb> k
[14:50] <Laurenceb> has anyone ever picked up a gps ground station?
[14:50] <Laurenceb> I could get one in oxford sometimes - I think it came from brize norton
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[14:57] <Laurenceb> is this vaid code? d=(&gps.latitude)+3;
[14:58] <Laurenceb> so it will point to the last byte of gps.latitude?
[14:58] <Laurenceb> as d is a char*
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[15:05] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/mc0a1cd4 <-- I reversed the order in the struct (thats defined in the header)
[15:06] <Laurenceb> then made placemarker negative
[15:09] <fergusnoble> bbiab
[15:11] <Laurenceb> theres never any sats when you need them :(
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[15:19] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: for GPS?
[15:19] <Laurenceb> yes, I'm waiting for some atm to test my code
[15:20] Action: SpeedEvil needs to get his scribbled-down GPS sat simulator built.
[15:26] <Laurenceb> my windowsill is a totally awful place for reception
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: dealextreme.com
[15:26] <Laurenceb> what for?
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> oops
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> I meant to add - have cheap GPS antennas
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> as in 4 quid shipped
[15:29] <Laurenceb> I see
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[15:46] <RocketBoy> bbl
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[17:42] <MetaMorfoziS> oh mhai
[17:42] <MetaMorfoziS> /dev/random:
[17:42] <MetaMorfoziS> In theory, this is the best way to fill your disk with random data, since it is much more random than any of the above. It works by using the kernel entropy pool, so if you run out of entropy it will kind of freeze. You can see what I am talking about just by doing this: 'cat /dev/random', it will eventually stop. Now move your mouse, :)
[17:42] <MetaMorfoziS> :D
[17:42] <MetaMorfoziS> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda
[17:42] <MetaMorfoziS> (go and take a nap, because this takes a long time to finish)
[17:42] <MetaMorfoziS> # if you used /dev/random come back in 100 years
[17:43] <MetaMorfoziS> oh sorry
[17:43] <MetaMorfoziS> wrong channel again
[17:43] <MetaMorfoziS> :D
[17:43] <MetaMorfoziS> sorry.
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[20:16] <Laurenceb> haha
[20:17] <Laurenceb> dev/random is fun
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[20:48] <Laurenceb> right, time to flash my board with the full parafoil code for the first time :-/
[20:49] Action: Laurenceb is nervous
[20:52] <Laurenceb> flashed it... dare I turn it on
[20:54] <Laurenceb> doh wrong F_CPU
[20:55] Action: Laurenceb hits head on table and goes for a drink
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[20:59] <Laurenceb> woot "waiting for gps lock...."
[21:10] <Laurenceb> servo/pwm, gps, adc, eeprom,indicator leds all work :P
[21:13] Nick change: jos -> Jos
[21:13] <Hiena> Ohoho... We have a lunar eclipse.
[21:13] <akawaka> i need a function which given an integer will return true with a specifiable probability in a deterministic manner with good random distribution
[21:13] <akawaka> any takers?
[21:14] <akawaka> some kind of hash function, and it needs to be fast
[21:15] <Laurenceb> fraid not
[21:16] <Laurenceb> yeah gyro works as well :D this is amazing every single bit of hardware interfacing on the parafoil works - no bugs at all XD
[21:16] <akawaka> nice work Laurenceb
[21:17] <Laurenceb> I think it needs a bit of treaking to the bootup script and a bit more of a play with the kalman filter in octave now
[21:17] <Laurenceb> s/treaking/tweaking
[21:18] <akawaka> got a description of the hardware anywhere?
[21:19] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:parafoil_avr
[21:19] <Laurenceb> theres most of the code linked off there, but I need to organise the page a bit
[21:23] <akawaka> awesome
[21:23] <akawaka> nice work on the board
[21:23] <akawaka> whats the jack for?
[21:24] <Laurenceb> rs232
[21:24] <Laurenceb> you can get 9 pin d-sub to stereo rs232 leads, very handy for talking to payloads
[21:25] <Laurenceb> I've swapped that battery holder for a through hole cr1225 one now, its less of a hack
[21:27] <akawaka> nice
[21:28] <Laurenceb> interestingly there is an erranous offset on the gyros spi rate reading equal to the one on the analogue output
[21:28] <Laurenceb> so the damage is obviously somewhere either with the mems element or the analogue front end in the IC
[21:29] <Laurenceb> - my mlx90609 from sparkfun developed a fault when I cooled it to -25C
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[21:53] Nick change: Jos -> jos
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[22:15] Nick change: jos -> Jos
[22:27] <Laurenceb> anyone seen the latest issue of new scientist?
[22:28] <Laurenceb> I was reading about the rat brain controlled robot - like how they appear to have used devantech sonar modules :)
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[23:35] <Laurenceb> interesting: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7564030.stm
[23:35] <Laurenceb> seems to use a standard rc set for takeoff
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[00:00] --- Sun Aug 17 2008