highaltitude.log.20080807

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[00:27] <Laurenceb> spacex investigation looks interesting...
[00:28] <Laurenceb> but theres a pretty clear first stage oscillation in the video
[00:28] <akawaka> where?
[00:29] <Laurenceb> on youtube - http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=THRjJABJoFg
[00:33] <Laurenceb> gtg cya
[00:34] <SpeedEvil> One of the apollos nearly lost it to pogoing.
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> There is _lots_ of water on that lens.
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> Looks beautifully smooth out to 30s though
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> through maxq too.
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> That rotational oscillation was damn small though.
[00:42] <SpeedEvil> that wouldn't have been a failure mode I'd have thought of for IR sensors or sun-trackers though.
[00:42] <SpeedEvil> Water all over the lens.
[00:46] <SpeedEvil> http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=7LpKCVrUJNg&feature=related ah - shows bad oscillation on the second stage
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[01:31] <jcoxon> hey all
[01:36] <akawaka> hey
[01:37] <jcoxon> weird lightning storm going on here
[01:37] <jcoxon> been happening for about 4 hours
[01:41] <jcoxon> haven't heard much thunder and theres been no rain
[01:41] <jcoxon> weird
[01:43] <akawaka> ever seen War of the Worlds
[01:43] <jcoxon> good point
[01:43] <jcoxon> crap
[01:43] <akawaka> just say, if i was you i'd find tom cruise and stick close to him
[01:43] <jcoxon> aarrgggh but i'm in the UK
[01:43] <jcoxon> i'll never get there in time
[01:43] <akawaka> actually, pretty much everyone near him dies
[01:43] <jcoxon> true
[01:43] <jcoxon> its the bacteria
[01:44] <akawaka> hmmm, roll around in pig crap for a while
[01:44] <jcoxon> no worries, i'm deep in the countryside
[01:44] <akawaka> it won't help, but it will stop people from stealing stuff from your corpse
[01:44] <jcoxon> haha
[01:44] <jcoxon> i'll hide in my cellar with the shotgun
[01:44] <jcoxon> they'll never fine me
[01:44] <jcoxon> find*
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[02:05] <SpeedEvil> Guess they found him.
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[07:37] <gordonjcp> incidentally I managed to hear my first cubesat last night
[07:38] <gordonjcp> got the beacon off CO-58
[07:40] <natrium42> cool
[07:40] <natrium42> i should get ham stuff together :/
[07:40] <natrium42> (and get a ham license too...)
[07:42] <gordonjcp> well this was with a homebrew 3-ele yagi (and I'm not sure it's right, yet
[07:43] <gordonjcp> and an el-cheapo 70cm rig, Jingtong JT-308
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[08:10] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:17] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: morning
[08:17] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: I picked up a cubesat last night with a probably-not-quite-right homebrew antenna
[08:18] <jcoxon> oh wow
[08:18] <jcoxon> that sounds really cool
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[08:18] <jcoxon> what sort of rig?
[08:18] <gordonjcp> so if I can hear 100mW at something like 1000km slant
[08:18] <gordonjcp> el-cheapo Jingtong JT308
[08:19] <jcoxon> 70cm?
[08:19] <gordonjcp> ye
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[08:19] <gordonjcp> only got the morse beacon, couldn't pull the afsk in at all
[08:19] <gordonjcp> but early days ;-)
[08:19] <jcoxon> i reckon all thats in the way is he horizon...
[08:19] <jcoxon> i'm watching this weather like a hawk
[08:20] <edmoore> jcoxon: my honest opinion: I would not launch a balloon this w/e.
[08:20] <jcoxon> i know
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[08:21] <jcoxon> was going to wait until the 12Z for today comes out on the wymonig forcast and then run the forecasts and see
[08:21] <jcoxon> whats going to be really funny is that the ground windows are going to be very low on sat
[08:21] <edmoore> yes good plan. but on the basis of current gfs model, it's just not pretty.
[08:22] <jcoxon> yeah just looking at them now
[08:23] <edmoore> and the ground winds are southerly, uppers are westerly - I just have this horrible vision of standing on that shingle bank on cromer beach
[08:23] <edmoore> asking fishermen if they say a payload full into the sea
[08:23] <jcoxon> haha, good times
[08:23] <edmoore> saw*
[08:23] <edmoore> fall*
[08:23] <jcoxon> the payload is to important
[08:23] <edmoore> gosh, too early to type
[08:24] <edmoore> yes - do not loose the goliath
[08:24] <edmoore> it has massive potential
[08:24] <edmoore> if it was bombprrof tried and tested hardware, maybe
[08:25] <jcoxon> okay
[08:25] <jcoxon> the weather ain't going to improve
[08:25] <gordonjcp> right folks, ttyl
[08:25] <jcoxon> cya
[08:25] <edmoore> jcoxon: I agree though, check the 12z
[08:26] <jcoxon> hmmm that'll be this afternoon won't i
[08:26] <jcoxon> t
[08:26] <jcoxon> maybe this evening
[08:26] <edmoore> but if you look at the direction the forecast has been going over the last 4 forecasts, it's converging on a faster js
[08:26] <edmoore> ok, I need to have some breakfast and get to work. Will be online all day from then.
[08:26] <jcoxon> coolio
[08:27] <edmoore> bllaeugh http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/FREE/dayforecast.asp?zipcode=cb3&day=2
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[09:02] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[09:03] <edmoore> morning
[09:03] <jcoxon> my rubycocoa ground software now displays the latest image
[09:03] <edmoore> breakfast makes a heckka difference
[09:03] <jcoxon> from the sstv download
[09:03] <edmoore> awesomeness
[09:03] <jcoxon> its so cool
[09:03] <jcoxon> you can edit it as well if you doubleclick on it
[09:03] <Laurenceb> nice
[09:03] <Laurenceb> what baudrate?
[09:04] <jcoxon> what for? the sstv?
[09:05] <jcoxon> i don't actually know
[09:09] <Laurenceb> but its over 434mhz and audio in?
[09:09] <jcoxon> yup
[09:09] <Laurenceb> edmoore: might weant to read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident
[09:11] <edmoore> lol
[09:23] <edmoore> it's properly chucking it down here
[09:23] <edmoore> quite nice being inside, realy
[09:24] <edmoore> any of the hams here into software defined radio?
[09:25] <Laurenceb> I will be soon :P
[09:25] <edmoore> oh hush you and your witchcraft
[09:25] <Laurenceb> :D
[09:27] <Laurenceb> where would you launch your 100km mission?
[09:27] <edmoore> there
[09:27] <edmoore> but we'd probably tell russia
[09:27] <Laurenceb> Norway ?!
[09:28] <Laurenceb> wouldnt it be in uncontrolled airspace for most of the flight ?
[09:31] <edmoore> sweden, even
[09:31] <jcoxon> esrange
[09:31] <Laurenceb> ah interesting
[09:32] <edmoore> sdr would be an awesome project for rainy afternoons
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[09:37] <robert1971> Moring all ... still exulted after my programmer success ...
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[09:38] <Laurenceb> http://www.space.com/news/080806-spacex-falcon1-update.html
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[09:41] <edmoore> robert1971: I missed this
[09:41] <edmoore> tell
[09:43] <Laurenceb> bbl
[09:46] <edmoore> aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggggghhhhhhh emacs
[09:46] <edmoore> how do I quit it?
[09:47] <Shanuson> alt+f4?
[09:48] <edmoore> I assume you're joking.
[09:48] <Shanuson> console, top + kill
[09:48] <Shanuson> dont know emacs^
[09:48] <Shanuson> or never used it
[09:48] <edmoore> why would a default editor for octave not be vi
[09:48] <edmoore> good lord
[09:49] <Shanuson> crtl +q
[09:49] <Shanuson> http://lpn.rnbhq.org/tools/xemacs/emacs_ref.html
[09:49] <edmoore> C-x, C-c just did it for me
[09:50] <edmoore> and wouldn't accept 'y', it had to be 'yes'
[09:50] <edmoore> stallman is a wierdo.
[09:50] <Shanuson> hehe
[09:51] <edmoore> ok, set it to vi
[09:51] <edmoore> much better
[09:54] <jcoxon> bl
[09:54] <jcoxon> bbl*
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[10:34] <robert1971> edmoore: I finally figured out my programming wows. The header on the dev board was wired around the oppsite way to the programmer. Pin 1 MISO prog = pin 10 MISO dev board. So now my lovely Olimex programmer works in AvrStudio (Blah!) winavr and avrdude in linux. I now have a collection of three other programmers which now all work too.
[10:35] <edmoore> one for every room!
[10:35] <edmoore> any blinking?
[10:37] <robert1971> The LED blinking is working fine. In fact I have programmed up the dev board to work the camera. Takes pictures and 30 seconds of movie and then falls asleep for 4.5 mins
[10:38] <robert1971> I'm going to doc my experiance for others on the wiki. PWM next to op the servo
[10:38] <edmoore> awesome
[10:39] <edmoore> have you seen the technique for controlling about 10 servos off one pwm pin?
[10:43] <robert1971> No
[10:44] <robert1971> I know that the pulse has to be 20ms and the m32 at 16MHz is going to have a bit of free time on it's hands
[10:46] <robert1971> I guess you could spit out lots of PWM setttings on one pin just not sure how you get the servos to listen to the correct signal and ignore the other 9 :) I guess that's the clever bit
[10:48] <edmoore> pwm pulses are between 1 and 2ms I *think*
[10:48] <edmoore> it has been a long whilse since I controlled servos
[10:50] <edmoore> robert1971: it's suprisingly unclever - you can use a chip like a 4017 (a shift register - as old as the hills and the building block of most ICs) which has one input pin and n output pins
[10:50] <edmoore> and it automatically sequences through every pulse
[10:51] <edmoore> so you provide, say, 10 pulses on the input, and it sequences through the output pins, one for each pulse
[10:51] <edmoore> super simple
[10:52] <edmoore> 10 is about the practical max cos if each pulse is on max length (2ms) then that takes 20ms to update all of them, which gives you 50 pulses to each servo per sec, which is about the right update rate for hobby servos
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[11:39] Nick change: Ei5GTB_ -> EI5GTB
[11:53] <robert1971> Edmore Wow, yep that was where my 20ms bit came from. Your right 1-2ms pulse every 20ms for each servo
[11:53] <robert1971> I think im going to have a look at those 4017 chips they sound usefull
[11:58] <robert1971> Now one other question on programmer cables I have decided to make a squid cable. Which is a ribbon cable with the wires split appart and attached to sepprate pins to push onto the dev board header. Any ideas what those plastic bits that you insert the pins into are called I guess I need 1 way ones.
[11:59] <EI5GTB> morning robert1971, how you getting on with the avr
[11:59] <EI5GTB> ?
[12:04] <robert1971> Great now my programmers are all working. The f'ing header on the dev board was wired around the opposite (wrong?) way
[12:05] <robert1971> Winavr rocks and dev is going fine. Have the camera fully controlled by the procesor taking 3 pictures and 30 sec video every 5 mins. Just getting into PWM to control servo next
[12:07] <robert1971> How are you getting on
[12:15] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[12:15] <Hiena> Greetings!
[12:16] <Hiena> I have a short question.
[12:17] <Shanuson> yep?
[12:17] <Hiena> I've got a video modulator designed for a TV use. It has abot 30-40mW output power on the VHF3 channel, and i want to add a wire antenna to it.
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> for what?
[12:18] <Hiena> The question is, how long antenna would be the best for this purpose.
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> a half-wave antenna.
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> what's the frequency?
[12:19] <Hiena> VHF ch 3. 60-66 MHz.
[12:20] <Hiena> 61.250 Mhz.
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> a couple of meters then
[12:20] <Hiena> The problem is, the low output power, what i can't measure.
[12:20] <Shanuson> how much away from half wave length can you be, to get at least say 90% of optimal strength
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> Shanuson: very little
[12:21] <Shanuson> 1%
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> Shanuson: however, you can drop to quarter wave
[12:21] <Shanuson> 5%
[12:21] <Shanuson> 0.1%
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: is it designed to plug into the antenna connector?
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[12:21] <Hiena> I have a half bridge to tune antennas, but it's designed for 10- few 100W.
[12:22] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, yup.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennagpcalc.html
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> amongst other things
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> then it'll be under a milliwatt
[12:22] <Hiena> I need only a few hundred meter range.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> use a cable :)
[12:23] <Hiena> For a modell airplane? No thanks.
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> you need something more powerful.
[12:23] <Shanuson> sound like you need an amplifier
[12:23] <EI5GTB> robert1971, sorry, was doing some reading, im not doing to bad, i have a variable pot now, and its position is being shown in 1 of 1024 possible binary outputs on 10 leds
[12:24] <Hiena> Yeah, but the amplifier will kill the picture quality.
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: not always
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: bit wtg a good amp
[12:25] <Hiena> Also, i have to move from the 2.4GHz range to lower frequency, because the antenna oscillation and the Doppler effect, kills the signal.
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> Not doppler.
[12:28] <Hiena> Is it. Over 100 km/h, when the modell going far from the receiver the receiver drops the picture. Well, i'll make one of my VHF
[12:29] <Hiena> "headphone" amps that case.
[12:33] <EI5GTB> at 2.4 ghz doppler need not be worried about
[12:33] <EI5GTB> i work sattelites, and even at 440mhz doppler dont come into play, with sats going a few thousand k/s
[12:34] <gordonjcp> EI5GTB: oh you do, do you?
[12:35] <gordonjcp> EI5GTB: I finally managed to hear one - the morse beacon on CO-58
[12:35] <EI5GTB> cool
[12:35] <Hiena> EI5GTB, and what is the connection drops at the moving wifi routers?
[12:35] <EI5GTB> iv never worked through a sat, onlym lisened, but iv worked through the iss
[12:35] <gordonjcp> EI5GTB: nice
[12:35] <EI5GTB> Hiena, what you mean?
[12:36] <gordonjcp> EI5GTB: I'm not sure what's going on, most satellites I've tried listening for seem to be flattened by local QRM
[12:36] <Hiena> My telemetry is based wlan APs and routers, and over 80km/h the connection always drops.
[12:36] <gordonjcp> Hiena: that's because they're not designed for using like that
[12:37] <EI5GTB> Hiena, thats cos they use otdm
[12:37] <EI5GTB> orthogonal time division multiplexing
[12:37] <gordonjcp> Hiena: at 80km/h you're going to be in range of the AP for about ten seconds
[12:37] <EI5GTB> when the router gives the client a timeslot, if its moving away, it has already missed
[12:37] <EI5GTB> it
[12:37] <Hiena> gordonjcp, with a 4 km range flat panel antennas? I doubt it.
[12:38] <EI5GTB> thats why you could be standing on top of a mountain and have no mobile coverage
[12:38] <EI5GTB> cos your too far away from the mast
[12:38] <gordonjcp> Hiena: ah, so *extremely* directional antennas?
[12:38] <EI5GTB> and the speed oif light is fast, but its not instentanious
[12:38] <gordonjcp> Hiena: are you working along the beam of the antenna with not more than about 0.5 degree error?
[12:38] <EI5GTB> so when your mobile is given its timeslot, it transmits, but due to the time it takes to get there and back it has already missed it
[12:38] <EI5GTB> the exact thing is happening with the router
[12:38] <Hiena> gordonjcp, the flat panels has about 20 degree, and the tracking is in range.
[12:39] <gordonjcp> Hiena: bollocks, sorry
[12:39] <gordonjcp> Hiena: there is no way you'll get a usable signal 10 degrees offcentre
[12:40] <EI5GTB> its not signal strength is the problem
[12:40] <gordonjcp> EI5GTB: it's not helping though
[12:40] <Hiena> Yup.
[12:40] <EI5GTB> its the fact its moving fast and/or out of range
[12:40] <EI5GTB> and its not doppler
[12:40] <EI5GTB> its due to the speed of light
[12:40] <EI5GTB> being slow
[12:42] <EI5GTB> and missing timeslosts in otdm
[12:43] <Hiena> Well, i'm now tweaking with the ground unit, and on the next weekend we will measure it. If my thought is good, it will showsome improvement.
[12:44] <EI5GTB> my advice would be to not use wifi
[12:44] <EI5GTB> its grand for about the house..
[12:44] <EI5GTB> but anything else..
[12:46] <Hiena> EI5GTB, well, the problem is the need of the mass data transmission. We have 3 IP camera, and about 60 sensor onboard with a 30 Hz samplerate. Simply impossible to pushing such data through some serial connection.
[12:46] <EI5GTB> then develop a new communication syste,
[12:47] <EI5GTB> system*
[12:47] <EI5GTB> do you need 2way communication?
[12:47] <Hiena> Yes, due the control goes on the same way.
[12:47] <EI5GTB> ok, do you need as much speed up?
[12:48] <EI5GTB> you can easily fit 128k on the 1.2ghz amateur band
[12:48] <EI5GTB> using Dstar
[12:48] <EI5GTB> hence no work needed at all
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: are you sure you're pointing the antennas properly - for wifi?
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: it's not the antenna wandering off-point?
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: due to wind?
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> 80km/h sounds very, very low - one part in 10 millionish
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> err - 15 million
[12:50] <Hiena> EI5GTB, how much is the downlink?
[12:50] <Hiena> The IP cameras need at least 10 Mb/s
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> Do you really need that picture quality?
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[12:51] <Hiena> Yeah, because the ground unit calculate the controls from the visuals.
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> Preliminary reading indicates that it may not be doppler, but the path changing too fast for it to be compensated well. It seems that switching to 802.11b or whatever might be better.
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> what are you using ATM?
[12:53] <Hiena> 802.11g if remembers correctly.
[12:53] <gordonjcp> hm
[12:53] <gordonjcp> 802.11g is pretty poor at the best of times
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> Also - sure you're not going into another signal?
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> And that's making you lose it?
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> 802.11A?
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> What is this?
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> A model aircraft of some sort?
[12:56] <Hiena> Dunno. I'll add to the "have to check" list. The onboard router and the ground unit supported all standard up to 80g.111g.
[12:56] <Hiena> Yup, it's a visual control loop testbed.
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> And you're trying to do optical recognition from the cameras to computer process it from the ground?
[12:57] <Hiena> Yeah, due i can't strap four dual core machine to the modell.
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> It sounds like you're going about things utterly the wrong way.
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Short-term flight control can be easily automated on the model
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> enough to keep it straight and level, or turn under command.
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[12:58] <jatkins> hi all
[12:58] <Shanuson> hi jatkins
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> And that quality of video downlink is inherently going to need a lot of power down, be short-range, and be interruptable.
[12:59] <jatkins> hi
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: that quality of downlink is also _vastly_ more than you need to simply keep the thing in the air.
[13:00] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, it's more than keep the thing itn the air. It's three paralell simulation on the ground. One is a horizont finding and calculation, Second, wing deformation and calculation. Third location identification and calculation.
[13:01] <Hiena> Only the wing deformation simulation calculation takes 1.38 sec on one dual core machine.
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> Are these very long flexible wings?
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> horizon finding is _trivial_ with on-board gyroscopes
[13:04] <jatkins> bbl
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[13:05] <SpeedEvil> And location ID - you certainly don't need that framerate, just moderately high-res frames every second or two.
[13:05] <Hiena> Yup. The main purpose is avoiding the collapse of the structurally supercritical wing, and teaching the plane seeing around it.
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Sorry if I'm appearing critical, it seems that you're vastly overcomplicating this though.
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> avoiding collapse of wing is surely simply best done by measuring the acceleration in the pitch axis, and avoiding exceeding pitch motions that exceed this.
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> Or even strain guages on the wing.
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> This would feed into a local autopilot, that'd also take care of snapping pictures, and returning them to teh location determiner on the ground, saying 'this picture was taken at timestamp, pointed in direction x,y,z with q zoom.
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> If this has been proscribed as a solution by someone, then a legal radio solution is problematic.
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> prescribed
[13:12] <soneil> I don't think it's overly critical .. figuring out how much data you *really* need to send is going to be a huge part of finding a connection that'll carry it
[13:13] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, it's a research project, not just keeping a modell buzzing around. We not want to build some yet another semi-UAV, we are trying to validate the realtime visual wing deformation estimation software.
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> I just have slight problems with the fact that it's utterly relying on the datalink to not only not hit things, but to not have the structure fail.
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> Why is visual wing deformation better than simple structural loading due to accelleration, or strain guages?
[13:15] <Hiena> Because it could be a backup system for the strain gauges on the real airplanes.
[13:15] <Shanuson> couldn't you do that with recorded video?
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> Umm.
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> For real airplanes, you can use an accelerometer glued to the autopilot.
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> As a backup
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> The structure is specified for +-3g (or whatever)
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> It's really trivial to find out if you're exceeding this.
[13:16] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, did you ever heard about the wng flutter, and a local acceleration peaks?
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> And you don't need a video camera to do that, you can use a line camera that picks up a LED.
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Which is why the strain guages.
[13:17] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[13:17] <edmoore> 12z up yet?
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: accelerometer and gyro on the wingtips.
[13:17] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, and what will you do, if the gauges failed due the local acceleration peaks?
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> You design them to take forces over the forces that will destroy the wing.
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Run the wires along the main spar, if that's gone, you've lost anyway.
[13:18] <Hiena> Also, what will you do if the connections in the wing is severed due some structural failure?
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: measuring the deformation of the wing after it's fallen off is not the main problem in that case.
[13:19] <Shanuson> hiena, why do you need realtime video? could you test you software with recorded video?
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: are you trying to work otu the deformation at many points of the wing, or just the tip?
[13:20] <Hiena> Shanuson, because the sofware proceed the vide,o and sends back a controls to avoid the overload conditions.
[13:21] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, at many points.
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> So if you're in fog, or the camera has iced up, or has water on it, it doesn't matter?
[13:22] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, it will be the problem for the guys at the Airbus, and not for me.
[13:22] <Shanuson> hehe
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> The wings of airbus class aircraft are specified pretty much unconditionally not to flutter throughout the normal flight envelope.
[13:24] <soneil> Is there no way you can narrow the dataset at the source, pre-transmission? process the video enough to figure out where your points-of-interest are right now, and just send the numbers over-the-air
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Or ratehr, that it will not induce failure.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> And that the wings will stay on while you do +-X gs of pitch
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> A strip of the wing would seem one logical solution.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> perhaps with a laser line generator, and laser reteroreflectors.
[13:26] <soneil> it's fair enough saying your model can't carry your simulation equipment, but can it do enough to not have to send 10mbit worth of raw video
[13:26] <Shanuson> could we just focus on the problem of finding a connection capable of handling 10Mb/s downlink,
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Over what distance Hiena ?
[13:27] <Hiena> 800m at max.
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> What weight is your current payload?
[13:28] <Hiena> 2.5kg
[13:28] <Shanuson> if you have a connection that handles 10 MB/s you could put 3 diffrent ones on that testbed
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: what are the cameras pointed at?
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: the wings?
[13:29] <Hiena> Actually, the key is keeping the cost low, and the telemetry have to be working out of box.
[13:29] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, forward, wings.
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> with a wide-angle lens?
[13:30] <Shanuson> and down for location?
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> the wings
[13:30] <Hiena> Yup.
[13:30] <soneil> I'd be tempted to see if you can work within the constraints of a cots 3g usb dongle. small, light, cheap-ish, and designed to move much more than wifi
[13:30] <Hiena> And paralell wit the wings. The wingtip is centere.
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: what do teh wings look like from the camera?
[13:31] <Hiena> White trapezoid shapes slightly curved sides.
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> How much of the view do they fill?
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> Or ratehr - how much can the region of interest move
[13:33] <Hiena> The whole picture. When the wing is under the load it could flex inside the frame.
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> You're picking up some sort of feature on the wing? black/white spots?
[13:34] <Hiena> Edges, and reference points.
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> You're using IP cameras?
[13:35] <Hiena> Yes. Well, i have to head back for the workshop. I have to finish the next two testbed.
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> I'd be looking at http://www.avrfreaks.net/wiki/index.php/Documentation:NGW/NGW100_Hardware_reference
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> to integrate for the wing-camera
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> use 320*240 or so mode, and put that onboard
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> $100 or so.
[13:37] Nick change: Hiena -> Hiena_works
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> USB2 in'd be lovely on that.
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[14:14] <Shanuson> much more detailed report than the pressrelease of spacex: http://spaceflightnow.com/falcon/003/update.html
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[14:23] <edmoore> jcoxon: ping ping ping ping ping
[14:23] <edmoore> you gotta see this
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[14:26] <edmoore> fergusnoble: I think it's provisonally not happening his weekend
[14:27] <fergusnoble> oh i see
[14:27] <fergusnoble> weather?
[14:28] <edmoore> yeah
[14:28] <edmoore> infact if you want a giggle, have a look at what wyoming just produced for this time sat http://pastebin.com/m225ec4cd
[14:31] <jcoxon> edmoore,
[14:31] <jcoxon> i'm here for a few mins
[14:32] <edmoore> ok
[14:32] <edmoore> copy the link above into google earth
[14:32] <jcoxon> will that work?
[14:35] <jcoxon> haha
[14:35] <jcoxon> 690m
[14:35] <jcoxon> how are the forecasts?
[14:36] <edmoore> not so hot
[14:36] <jcoxon> nah, its not worth it
[14:37] <edmoore> you're testing pretty hardcore stuff. You want everything else to be pretty nominal
[14:37] <jcoxon> its going to be too close what ever happens
[14:37] <jcoxon> agreed
[14:37] <fergusnoble> edmoore: are you still going up to cambridge?
[14:37] <jcoxon> okay, i'll call it
[14:37] <jcoxon> have a nice weekend :-p
[14:38] <edmoore> fergusnoble: no
[14:38] <fergusnoble> edmoore: i think i will go up anyway perhaps
[14:38] <fergusnoble> want to take a look at the mould
[14:38] <edmoore> ok. would you be staying up?
[14:39] <fergusnoble> yeah
[14:39] <edmoore> ok
[14:39] <edmoore> I will save myself the petrol. Am reeling slightly
[14:39] <edmoore> especially after server
[14:42] <jcoxon> bbiab
[14:44] <jatkins> jcoxon: has that sparkfun order gone off?
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[15:18] <SpeedEvil> Who was asking yesterday about vertical accuracy of GPSs?
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> I looked at some logs from my car GPS
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> Over a journey I've made 30 times or so.
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> Outliers are +-15m vertically, 50% of the tracks fall within +-5m
[15:21] <edmoore> red arrows are practicing overhead]
[15:22] <robert1971> How do you do that cut and paste bit in google earth?
[15:23] <edmoore> robert1971: save it in a text file as blah.kml
[15:23] <edmoore> sorry arrows
[15:23] <edmoore> incredible
[15:25] <edmoore> about 200ft above us
[15:32] <Shanuson> SpeedEvil: it was jatkins asking
[15:33] <robert1971> edmoore: How did you produce that file?
[15:33] <robert1971> I could do with that service when I get around to launching
[15:34] <robert1971> Is that the wyoming thing?
[15:34] <edmoore> yep
[15:34] <edmoore> however one of our guys has made one too
[15:35] <edmoore> but I don't have the source
[15:35] <edmoore> fergusnoble: did you say you had his logon?
[15:35] <fergusnoble> yeah, dunno if you can shell into the dept though?
[15:36] <fergusnoble> prolly can, just dont know the server
[15:37] <edmoore> gate.eng.cam.ac.uk
[15:37] <edmoore> knock yourself out
[15:37] <fergusnoble> cool beans
[15:37] <edmoore> C17 rumbling over too
[15:37] <edmoore> can see it coming in from the horizon
[15:37] <edmoore> we're right in the flight path of benson, seems there's some kind of display going on
[15:39] <fergusnoble> ok, found the sources, do you want them?
[15:40] <fergusnoble> i dont think they are really ready to be used yet
[15:40] <edmoore> please
[15:40] <robert1971> Hey how accurate is that.
[15:40] <edmoore> wyoming?
[15:40] <robert1971> If I lauched from my houe this w/e it would land in the fields in lincon
[15:40] <robert1971> Yep wyoming
[15:40] <edmoore> not that accurate
[15:40] <edmoore> well
[15:40] <edmoore> you can specify ascent rate
[15:40] <edmoore> or descent rate
[15:41] <edmoore> so they make assumptions
[15:41] <robert1971> In the right general direction?
[15:41] <edmoore> oh yeah, for sure
[15:41] <robert1971> I'm not expecting it to get the right field :)
[15:42] <robert1971> If the distance traveled is at least 1/2 right I'm going to be in a safe zone.
[15:42] <edmoore> yep
[15:43] <edmoore> where are you based robert1971 ?
[15:43] <fergusnoble> edmoore: sending by DCC, not sure how recent these are
[15:43] <edmoore> 616.1kb!
[15:43] <edmoore> if that's all just code...
[15:43] <fergusnoble> think there are a few datasets in there too
[15:43] <robert1971> 53.654862, -1.672345 or WF12 0NQ
[15:43] <edmoore> well it doesn't seem to be downloading
[15:43] <fergusnoble> i just zipped the whole folder
[15:44] <fergusnoble> ill try again
[15:45] <edmoore> nope. it's sitting there not downloading
[15:45] <edmoore> could just email it
[15:45] <edmoore> 's only little
[15:45] <fergusnoble> email'd
[15:46] <robert1971> edmoore: Where are you based?
[15:47] <edmoore> oxford atm
[15:48] <edmoore> but live in chichester
[15:48] <edmoore> well, near chichester
[15:48] <robert1971> Is that oxford uni or r u there for work
[15:48] <robert1971> I used to live in Henley a few years ago
[15:48] <edmoore> there for work
[15:49] <edmoore> oh really?
[15:49] <edmoore> well I'm actually in chalgove, if you know that
[15:49] <edmoore> half way between ox and henley
[15:49] <fergusnoble> edmoore: im preparing a screenshot which may excite you
[15:49] <robert1971> Not too far way. Thats where my family came from
[15:49] <robert1971> It must be a good screen shot. Pamala Anderson ?
[15:50] <Shanuson> do someone of you have something they want to shoot into space? it seems spaceX flight 4 is without payload atm
[15:50] <edmoore> foo and/or bar
[15:50] <edmoore> you're such a geek fergus
[15:51] <fergusnoble> its true
[15:54] <fergusnoble> i wish osx understood sftp
[15:54] <edmoore> is this written in some annoying editor?
[15:55] <fergusnoble> he uses notepad2 or something
[15:55] <edmoore> everything has a corresponing *~ backup
[15:55] <fergusnoble> why whats it look like?
[15:55] <edmoore> poo.m has poo.m~
[15:56] <fergusnoble> i see
[15:56] <edmoore> but some of them only have the backup file
[15:56] <edmoore> I guess that's why they have it
[15:56] <edmoore> or there's been some funky use of dragging rather than dragging and copying
[15:57] <edmoore> rightyho, I might make something similar
[15:57] <edmoore> a CLI which you pass an xml
[15:58] <edmoore> CLU*
[15:58] <edmoore> what is it that you're preparing?
[15:59] <fergusnoble> you'll see
[15:59] <fergusnoble> its not THAT exciting
[16:03] <edmoore> this code ain't too bad, just not very structured.
[16:04] <edmoore> No header files or nuthin, all procedural giant main loops, but quite readable
[16:07] <fergusnoble> no header files?!
[16:07] <fergusnoble> ah well
[16:07] <fergusnoble> comments?
[16:10] <edmoore> the odd one
[16:10] <robert1971> Is he ( i guess rob) going to be happy that his source is doing the rounds? Or is he a good lad!
[16:10] <edmoore> it's not really commented apart from in the dealing with the data gfs file
[16:10] <edmoore> which is all oct
[16:10] <edmoore> so is quite well commented
[16:10] <fergusnoble> cool
[16:10] <fergusnoble> robert1971: i wouldnt really want to circulate it without asking him first
[16:11] <fergusnoble> but i think he wouldnt mind ed reading it
[16:11] <edmoore> we are all CUSF
[16:11] <edmoore> and we might stick it on the web as our version of wyoming
[16:12] <fergusnoble> god damn code doesnt seem to run so well on my eee
[16:12] <fergusnoble> sorry its taking so long
[16:12] <fergusnoble> wanted to get the screenshot in its proper surroundings
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[16:12] <fuzzylugnut> Hey
[16:14] <fergusnoble> oh its a bloody unicode spport issue
[16:15] <fuzzylugnut> anyone fly lately?
[16:16] <robert1971> User the force read the source as they say
[16:18] <edmoore> it's a bluddy cane toad
[16:18] <edmoore> (strong aussie accent)
[16:19] <edmoore> fuzzylugnut: not really
[16:19] <edmoore> James has called off this weekend
[16:19] <edmoore> forecast is a bit crap
[16:19] <fuzzylugnut> ah, lame
[16:20] <fuzzylugnut> I just got back from the road trip, and forgot my irc password
[16:20] <robert1971> How big is the window on those NOTAMs
[16:20] <edmoore> whoops
[16:20] <edmoore> physically or temporaly?
[16:20] <robert1971> Can you get a month or so
[16:20] <robert1971> Launch window
[16:20] <edmoore> just spotted there is one above us now for the red arrows to do there thing
[16:20] <edmoore> yes
[16:20] <edmoore> their*
[16:21] <edmoore> we have one for 6 months
[16:21] <edmoore> I think
[16:21] <robert1971> Holy shit so no real pressure then
[16:21] <edmoore> nope
[16:21] <edmoore> do it when it's ready etc
[16:22] <robert1971> Was that easy to get. The airspace around cambridge would be quite busy I would have thought
[16:22] <fergusnoble> edmoore: ok this is going to take a while to fix, there are some threading quirks thrown in too
[16:23] <robert1971> Woo Posix threads nice ...
[16:23] <edmoore> telling me what's wrong with it is meaningless if you don't tell me what 'it' is
[16:23] <robert1971> Someone knows their stuff...
[16:23] <edmoore> though I can guess
[16:35] <fergusnoble> robert1971: python threads, a lot easier :)
[16:36] <edmoore> i had to use pthreads.h recently when porting some of the sim stuff over to the cluster
[16:36] <edmoore> I didn't really do anything cunning with it though, just adapted some examples for my use
[16:39] <edmoore> I love the way doves do backflips
[16:39] <edmoore> and they come in to land almost vertically
[16:39] <edmoore> they're like little kids
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[16:50] <robert1971> Farnells is calling me. It's a bugger driving past it each day.
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[16:51] <robert1971> Google Earth is cool. Never played with it before. Another few hours wasted at work!! THanks for that edmoore
[16:51] <edmoore> I try.
[16:51] <edmoore> It is cool yes
[16:52] <edmoore> turning the telemetry into kml files is always fun
[16:52] <edmoore> you can see what your balloon did
[16:52] <fuzzylugnut> I'd love to do that in real time
[16:52] <fuzzylugnut> aprskml doesn't seem to work right with the updated GE
[16:53] <robert1971> I'm going to be going all of that. I had a basic crack at plotting data on google maps before I know you guys had a tracker. See very poor attempt at www.robertharrison.org/tracker
[16:53] <robert1971> This was more a proof of concept
[16:54] <robert1971> I was going to tie in a mysql db to hold the data and some auto collection via gsm
[16:55] <robert1971> The white bolb was meant to be a balloon
[16:56] <fuzzylugnut> mmmm, blobulous
[16:56] <edmoore> that looks pretty cool
[16:58] <robert1971> I may do something with it yet. Putting the data from wyoming in before hand and having a side bar displaying the lastest fix data. Barometer, temp location, height etc..
[16:58] <fuzzylugnut> cool
[16:59] <fuzzylugnut> I'll be writing a parsing program for TNC > xml file for GE to read off of, I just got back and am starting work next week, so things are a little hairy atm
[16:59] <robert1971> I'm hoping to include a radio beacon on the balloon for tracking when it lands. Are these easy to make and is the kit cheap to track the beacon?
[17:00] <fuzzylugnut> if you are doing it by radiolocation instead of APRS, linx technologies has some cute little transmitters
[17:00] <robert1971> This is for the last mile where the hell is it
[17:00] <fuzzylugnut> do you use APRS?
[17:01] <robert1971> APRS?
[17:01] <robert1971> GPRS
[17:01] <fuzzylugnut> automatic position reporting system
[17:01] <fuzzylugnut> its a gps reciever tied to a transmitter through a microcontroller
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> robert1971: the cheapest form is a PAYG mobile phone, and a mobile phone locator website.
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> robert1971: then radiolocation to find it once you're within a few hundred meters.
[17:02] <fuzzylugnut> http://www.byonics.com/microtrak/mt300.php
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[17:02] <fuzzylugnut> this little thing is so nice. I use 2
[17:02] <fuzzylugnut> robert1971: do you have a ham license?
[17:03] <robert1971> Yep I had that planned. The beacon is for the last mile (100 meters)
[17:04] <fergusnoble> just been on wunderground - thursday looks quite good
[17:04] <fuzzylugnut> SpeedEvil: what about cell phone reception at high altitude?
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[17:05] <SpeedEvil> it won't work at all.
[17:05] <fergusnoble> fuzzylugnut: you only get signal below 1km ish
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> It will be fine when it comes back to ground though.
[17:05] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, so how do you get telemetry at altitude?
[17:05] <fergusnoble> by radio
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> Many ways.
[17:05] <jatkins> or SMS
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> Dropping carrier pigeons with supplementary oxygen.
[17:05] <jatkins> or GSM
[17:05] <jatkins> lol
[17:06] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how pigeons would cope with going supersonic.
[17:06] <fergusnoble> jatkins: no mobile phone reception up there
[17:06] <jatkins> oh
[17:06] <jatkins> thought you used that on Nova 1?
[17:06] <jatkins> or was that for recovery
[17:06] <fergusnoble> well there is plenty of signal, just the phone gets confused by being able to see too many cells
[17:06] <jatkins> yeah, edmoore was telling me a while back
[17:07] <fergusnoble> jatkins: we have used a phone on quite a few of the novas
[17:07] <jatkins> did you use the GSM to send SMSs?
[17:07] <jatkins> ok
[17:07] <fergusnoble> yeah
[17:07] <jatkins> ok, cool
[17:07] <fergusnoble> but only when it lands
[17:07] <jatkins> yep
[17:07] <jatkins> does 434 MHz rtty cutout on landing??
[17:07] <fergusnoble> well, actually we just ask the phone if it has signal and get it to text when it does
[17:07] <jatkins> yeah
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> The PAYG+low power beacon+websites only real benefit is that it costs 15 quid or so.
[17:08] <fergusnoble> jatkins: the power is so low you dont really hear it over the horizon
[17:08] <jatkins> ok
[17:08] <fergusnoble> jatkins: and it can often land antenna down
[17:08] <jatkins> yeah (ouch)
[17:08] <jatkins> does it break?
[17:08] <jatkins> or just not transmit>
[17:08] <jatkins> ?
[17:08] <fergusnoble> just usually we cant pick it up
[17:08] <jatkins> ok
[17:08] <fergusnoble> the antenna is a bit of flexible wire
[17:08] <jatkins> yeah
[17:09] <jatkins> can't you use gps-like antennas or is that not enough power?
[17:09] <jatkins> i.e. non-flexible ones
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> against teh ground would also be problematic even if it's
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> not flexible
[17:09] <jatkins> oh yeah I guess
[17:10] <fergusnoble> some of the older novas had hard antennas, but has obvious issues
[17:10] <jatkins> doesn't it ever land with the phone's aerial facing to the ground?
[17:10] <fergusnoble> big hard spikey thing falling from the sky issues
[17:10] <jatkins> lol
[17:10] <robert1971> Fergusnoble: Thanks for tha link in the APRS stuff
[17:11] <jatkins> oh, I meant like the square gps aerials
[17:11] <jatkins> like on the sirfstarIII
[17:11] <jatkins> I'll get a link..
[17:11] <robert1971> I'm going to have look into the tracking side of things soon
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> jatkins: those are problematic at lower freqs.
[17:11] <fergusnoble> yeah, sometimes the phone doesnt get signal for some reason or other, best not to rely totally on any of the systems
[17:11] <jatkins> ok
[17:11] <fuzzylugnut> robert1971: what do you have now?
[17:11] <fergusnoble> jatkins: we are investigating some other antenna designs though
[17:11] <jatkins> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8234
[17:11] <jatkins> ok
[17:12] <fergusnoble> the "big wheel" design looks good as its basically flat
[17:12] <robert1971> A microprocessor controlled camera attached to a servo in a box.
[17:12] <jatkins> ok
[17:12] <fergusnoble> and has a nice radiation pattern
[17:12] <jatkins> cool
[17:13] <jatkins> what about the antenna design on the sirfstar link?
[17:14] <robert1971> ttfn
[17:14] <jatkins> cya
[17:15] <robert1971> Off home chat later
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[17:15] <jatkins> SpeedEvil: if only they'd kept Concorde flying, we could have found out!
[17:16] <jatkins> glue it to underneath the fuselage
[17:16] <jatkins> >Mach 2.2
[17:16] <fergusnoble> jatkins: gps antennas are designed for circular polarisation i think
[17:16] <jatkins> ok
[17:17] <jatkins> I guess they're specifically built for the gps constellations orbital parameters
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> 'On the aerodynamic and biodynamic performance of pigeons equipped with supplementary oxygen at mach 1.2 at 30m/s indicated airspeed'.
[17:17] <jatkins> plus they're microwave antennas
[17:17] <jatkins> lol
[17:17] <jatkins> NASA's new X-plane
[17:17] <jatkins> The NASA X-Mach-Pigeon
[17:18] <jatkins> give Boeing something useful to do
[17:18] <jatkins> fergusnoble: how often do you transmit telemetry on Nova?
[17:18] <fergusnoble> these days we transmit constantly
[17:19] <jatkins> every few seconds?
[17:19] <jatkins> -- so as soon as the gps data gets to the PIC you transmit?
[17:19] <fergusnoble> used to transmit only every 30s and turned off the radio in between, but it actually doesnt use that much power
[17:19] <jatkins> ok
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[17:20] <fuzzylugnuts> gar.
[17:20] <jatkins> hi
[17:20] <fuzzylugnuts> silly nick registrations
[17:20] <jatkins> lol
[17:20] <jatkins> they're annoying
[17:20] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[17:20] <fergusnoble> jatkins: it takes about 5s to send a string at 50baud, so as soon as it finished transmitting one it would start again
[17:20] <jatkins> ok
[17:20] <jatkins> so doesn't that mean it doesn't matter how the antenna lands?
[17:20] <jatkins> can't you just use the last position recording?
[17:21] <fergusnoble> the problem is if it lands face down we cant hear it, all the transmitted power goes downwards
[17:22] <jatkins> oh right
[17:22] <fergusnoble> with this antenna design
[17:22] <jatkins> yeah
[17:22] <fergusnoble> which is a good thing when its in the air :)
[17:22] <jatkins> so even if it's facing down before it actually lands you can't hear it?
[17:22] <fuzzylugnuts> how about some kind of auto-righting capsule, like an egg shape of sorts?
[17:22] <jatkins> yeah
[17:22] <fuzzylugnuts> and btw, http://68.34.212.42/trak/tracker.html is the tracking capsule I built for the balloon group back in idaho
[17:23] <jatkins> I guess you could just weight it
[17:23] <jatkins> ?
[17:23] <fergusnoble> fuzzylugnuts: yeah that would be good
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> also used for close-in tracking
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> you pick up the radio while digging in trees
[17:24] <jatkins> fergusnoble: would weights work?
[17:24] <jatkins> I think the MiHAB Glider used them for controlling the centre of mass, or something like that
[17:24] <fuzzylugnuts> weights = batteries or other heavy componets
[17:24] <fergusnoble> jatkins: even if it was the right way up you would have to be really close to it to pick it up
[17:24] <fergusnoble> it has quite a long range line of sight but as soon as there is something in the way it goes right down
[17:24] <jatkins> oh
[17:24] <jatkins> yeah
[17:24] <jatkins> shame
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> Or simply two antennas.
[17:25] <fergusnoble> fuzzylugnuts: looks really nice
[17:25] <jatkins> yeah
[17:26] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[17:26] <fergusnoble> i like the protective covers :)
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[17:26] <fuzzylugnuts> haha, thanks
[17:26] <jatkins> hi edmoore
[17:26] <fuzzylugnuts> I loooove those cute little boxes
[17:26] <fuzzylugnuts> ÿthanks. we use 2 of everything with antennas mounted on opposite sides, so if the box falls antenna down on one unit, the other antenna group might be still exposed
[17:27] <jatkins> bbs
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[17:27] <fuzzylugnuts> more times than not, the box landed niceand flat with both antennas parallel to the ground
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[17:27] <fuzzylugnuts> but at 8w of xmit power, we could still pick up the APRS transmitters
[17:27] <fergusnoble> edmoore: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/images/tracker.png
[17:28] <fergusnoble> read telem in from the rtty program, adds wayoints in gpsdrive and displays all the statistics
[17:28] <edmoore_> here's one for you
[17:29] <edmoore_> why would plugging a monitor in (that has not been sued for a long while) cause the adsl modem to drop the connection and not be able to reconnect?
[17:29] <edmoore_> every single time
[17:29] <fergusnoble> odd
[17:29] <fergusnoble> so you cant have a monitor and the internet at the same time?
[17:30] <fergusnoble> cos you know they go best together :)
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[17:30] <fergusnoble> heh
[17:31] <fergusnoble> the monitor wins again
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[17:34] <SpeedEvil> edmoore_: interfernece.
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> edmoore_: ADSL relies on RF, if the monitor injects RF into the mains, which is conducted into teh phone line then that may disturb thingd.
[17:35] <edmoore_> SpeedEvil: that is the case, though they are tested to mimise such rf
[17:35] <edmoore_> it's lcd too
[17:36] <edmoore_> so I think this monitor is busted
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> edmoore_: well...
[17:36] <edmoore_> because the replacement lcd works just fine
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> edmoore_: got any spare ferrite rings?
[17:36] <edmoore_> not here
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> edmoore_: that you can poke the mains flex through.
[17:37] <fergusnoble> edmoore_: its not working at all?
[17:38] <edmoore_> is what not working at all?
[17:39] <fergusnoble> the monitor
[17:39] <edmoore_> no, it works fine
[17:39] <edmoore_> but it smells of burning dust
[17:39] <fergusnoble> oh ok
[17:39] <edmoore_> and upsets the modem/router
[17:39] <edmoore_> new one is happy
[17:39] <fergusnoble> oh ok
[17:39] <fergusnoble> so just starting the server install?
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[17:49] <fuzzylugnuts> ;_; Gu
[17:50] <fuzzylugnuts> I might get my UK buddy to send me the container
[17:50] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.condenast.co.uk/ImageLib/224x288/g_j/GuIceCream.jpg
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[17:57] <fergusnoble> fuzzylugnuts: they are really good boxes
[17:58] <fergusnoble> and they come with free icecream
[17:58] <fuzzylugnuts> :D
[17:58] <fuzzylugnuts> bonus
[17:58] <fuzzylugnuts> availible at tesco?
[17:58] <fergusnoble> i dont know, i think i saw them in tesco
[17:59] <fuzzylugnuts> awesome.
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[18:05] <fuzzylugnuts> oh sweet
[18:05] <fuzzylugnuts> radiometrix came out with a new little transmitter
[18:05] <fuzzylugnuts> d'awww
[18:05] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/tx2s.gif
[18:11] Nick change: edmoore__ -> edmoore
[18:11] Action: fuzzylugnuts wants to do an altitude record flight
[18:11] <fuzzylugnuts> my current is 95kft
[18:12] <edmoore> 109+ here
[18:12] <fuzzylugnuts> sweet
[18:12] <fuzzylugnuts> hey, wern't you going to do a altitude run a while back, with 2 balloons?
[18:13] <edmoore> yes
[18:13] <edmoore> the attempt with 2 balloons was interesting
[18:13] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah?
[18:13] <edmoore> we're going to try and pick a gentler day with the one big balloon instead
[18:13] <edmoore> yeah, there were some issues
[18:13] Action: fuzzylugnuts sits down for storytime
[18:14] <fuzzylugnuts> did the two tangle up?
[18:14] <edmoore> ha, yeah
[18:14] <edmoore> a fairly impressive ball
[18:15] <fergusnoble> fuzzylugnuts: only 1mw though :(
[18:15] <edmoore> I think it was a failed cutdown actually
[18:15] <fuzzylugnuts> at least it had entertainment value
[18:15] <fuzzylugnuts> fergusnoble: http://www.linxtechnologies.com/Products/RF-Modules/Broadband-RF-Amplifiers/
[18:16] <fergusnoble> yeah i saw those, i was going to order a couple to play with
[18:16] <fuzzylugnuts> I used them before I went to the Byonics stuff
[18:17] <fergusnoble> ah cool
[18:17] <fuzzylugnuts> http://68.34.212.42/scrap/tran_315.jpg
[18:17] <fergusnoble> did you try their transmitters too?
[18:17] <fuzzylugnuts> Yeah
[18:17] <fuzzylugnuts> thats the LR series
[18:17] <fergusnoble> ah cool, i basically wanted to build exactly that
[18:17] <fuzzylugnuts> haha, cool!
[18:17] <fergusnoble> how well did it work?
[18:18] <fergusnoble> compared to radiometrix?
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[18:19] <fuzzylugnuts> I had a preamp on the reciever for the Linx, and was able to pick up 100% until ~ 40kft, then it was off and on until 70+ kft
[18:20] <fergusnoble> hmm
[18:20] <fuzzylugnuts> The antenna I was using for the receiver was a little dipole
[18:20] <fuzzylugnuts> an Arrow antenna or another yagi would have been sooooo much better
[18:20] <fuzzylugnuts> The radiometrix transmitter I use puts out 300mw and I pick it up all through the flight until it lands
[18:21] <edmoore> anyone here done raid1 + lvm on ubuntu server install?
[18:21] <fergusnoble> yeah, and it was on and off because it was far away or do you think the module was effected by the cold and wet?
[18:22] <fuzzylugnuts> It was in a box pretty safe, so i don't think cold or moisture was a problem
[18:22] <fuzzylugnuts> also, I was running it at 4800bps
[18:22] <fuzzylugnuts> straight from the gps
[18:22] <fergusnoble> oh wow
[18:23] <fuzzylugnuts> it was a first order test, so it could be greatly improved
[18:23] <fergusnoble> thats really good then
[18:23] <fergusnoble> im just thinking they could be perfect for the badger2
[18:23] <fuzzylugnuts> Laurenceb and those guys have a great RTTY setup that uses only 10mw
[18:24] <fergusnoble> i didnt know Laurenceb had tested his radio yet
[18:24] <fuzzylugnuts> fergusnoble: If I were you, I'd just test the Linx stuff on a flight to evaluate its performance before relying on it
[18:24] <fergusnoble> yeah, of course
[18:24] <fergusnoble> but its worth thinking about
[18:24] <fuzzylugnuts> or was it edmoore....
[18:24] <fuzzylugnuts> its all so hazy
[18:24] <fuzzylugnuts> Sure
[18:25] <fuzzylugnuts> and they are -cheap-
[18:25] <edmoore> fuzzylugnuts: CUSF uses the 10mW radios just fine
[18:25] <fergusnoble> if you mean edmoore's radio i think you ill find i built it :p
[18:25] <fuzzylugnuts> ahh, ok
[18:25] <edmoore> fuzzy is refering to pre-badger has he's not been around since pre-badger :p
[18:25] <fuzzylugnuts> I must admit I was drunk most of last year
[18:26] <fergusnoble> heh
[18:26] <edmoore> and I did code one pre-badger. but a while ago.
[18:26] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah, I was too busy driving 6000 miles on a killer awesome road trip this summer
[18:26] <fergusnoble> oh cool where did you go?
[18:27] <fuzzylugnuts> thge main points we hit was.. the grand canyon, hiked down in for a couple days. arches NP, yellowstone, the badlands, a few places inbetween
[18:28] <fergusnoble> awesome, i would love to go driving across the US some day
[18:28] <fergusnoble> driving in the desert must be amazing
[18:28] <fuzzylugnuts> omg.
[18:28] <fuzzylugnuts> it is
[18:28] <fuzzylugnuts> I love the desert
[18:28] <fuzzylugnuts> http://68.34.212.42/
[18:28] <fuzzylugnuts> "road trip 2007" was a similar trip last summer
[18:29] <fergusnoble> omg, you made a fusor
[18:30] <fuzzylugnuts> eh, more like alot of shiny plumbing
[18:30] <fuzzylugnuts> I never finished it, needed a TIG welder
[18:30] <fuzzylugnuts> want it/
[18:30] <fuzzylugnuts> ?
[18:30] <edmoore> he has one
[18:30] <fuzzylugnuts> ahh ok
[18:31] <fergusnoble> http://henryhallam.cjb.net/~henry/fusor/Copy%20of%20index.htm
[18:31] <fuzzylugnuts> very nice chamber!
[18:32] <fuzzylugnuts> Hey, the Albatross
[18:32] <fergusnoble> we were lucky, found all the flanges on ebay for cheap
[18:32] <fuzzylugnuts> cool
[18:32] <fergusnoble> and had a freind who was good at welding :)
[18:33] <fuzzylugnuts> cool
[18:33] <fergusnoble> you know the albatross?
[18:33] <fergusnoble> we never got it working properly, one of the GM tubes was dead i think
[18:33] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah, I'm a health physicist
[18:33] <fergusnoble> ah cool
[18:33] <fuzzylugnuts> ah yeah
[18:33] <fergusnoble> weve got a ludlum now
[18:33] <fergusnoble> wit ha BF3 tube
[18:34] <fuzzylugnuts> the bowling ball detector is probably more suited anyeays
[18:34] <fuzzylugnuts> the albatros is designed for pulsed neutron sources
[18:34] <fuzzylugnuts> ÿthere is craploads of vacuum parts at the national lab's auction here in oak ridge
[18:35] <fergusnoble> yeah, its odd they dont seem to do sales like that in the uk
[18:35] <fergusnoble> its a shame
[18:35] <fuzzylugnuts> lame : /
[18:35] <fuzzylugnuts> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQrdZ0QQsassZornl
[18:35] <fuzzylugnuts> they sell on ebay too
[18:36] <fuzzylugnuts> it sucks though, because they pile up all kinds of stuff on a pallet, and then you bid on the whole pallet
[18:36] <fuzzylugnuts> so you get 2 things you want, and a bunch of crap
[18:36] <fergusnoble> ah i see
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[18:37] <fuzzylugnuts> I got a bunch of scramble pads and HID readers last time
[18:37] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:37] <fuzzylugnuts> Hey
[18:37] <fergusnoble> its amazing yo made your own flanges and viewports etc
[18:37] <fergusnoble> how far have you got now?
[18:38] <fuzzylugnuts> I got a bigass stainless steel orb and cut it in half, and made flanges for it, but I need a good welder so its stopped
[18:38] <fuzzylugnuts> its all a pile of crap in my parent's basement now.
[18:39] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm not going to work on it any more
[18:39] <fuzzylugnuts> the vacuum system was done, had a rougher, diffusion with trap and an ion pump
[18:40] <fuzzylugnuts> the hv system would give me 100kv at ~10ma if I had it vacuumed and re-filled with oil
[18:40] Action: SpeedEvil also has vacuum bits in the attic.
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> A 10 micron oil pump.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> And was aiming at a sublimation pump for backing.
[18:41] <fergusnoble> fuzzylugnuts: what did you use for a hv psu? xray tranny?
[18:42] <fuzzylugnuts> yep, with a stack of bigass HV diodes
[18:42] <fuzzylugnuts> bleh
[18:42] <fuzzylugnuts> back up. 50kv not 100
[18:42] <fergusnoble> they are scary things
[18:42] <fuzzylugnuts> but sooo much fun
[18:43] <fuzzylugnuts> I can get line transformers from the auction occasionally
[18:43] <fergusnoble> oh thats cool, they are also hard to get in the uk
[18:43] <fergusnoble> good for tesla coils
[18:43] <fuzzylugnuts> Yeah
[18:43] <fergusnoble> yeah, our xray trasnormer is really dodgy
[18:44] <fergusnoble> i think its full of PCB oil
[18:44] <fuzzylugnuts> haha!
[18:44] <fuzzylugnuts> yay pcbs!
[18:44] <fuzzylugnuts> they taste like candy
[18:44] <fergusnoble> i didnt eat any, but i did get covered in the stuff
[18:44] <fuzzylugnuts> carcinogenic candy.
[18:44] <fuzzylugnuts> bleh
[18:44] <fuzzylugnuts> nasty
[18:45] <fergusnoble> the only references we can find to the company on the nameplate are from circa 1920
[18:45] <fuzzylugnuts> I pulled mine from a working portable GE dental x-ray I bought at a hamfest for $50 bucks
[18:45] <fuzzylugnuts> oh wow
[18:46] <fuzzylugnuts> thats ollllllllllllld
[18:46] <fergusnoble> $50 - thats a real bargain
[18:47] <fergusnoble> i think we paid more like $200 and that was just for the transformer :/
[18:47] <fuzzylugnuts> wow
[18:47] <fergusnoble> things like that are hard to come by here though
[18:47] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah, this was from another health physicist who just wanted to get rid of it
[18:47] <fergusnoble> cool
[18:47] <fuzzylugnuts> since its against state regs to actually operate
[18:48] <fuzzylugnuts> "Discount x-rays! taken here!"
[18:48] <jcoxon> my projector makes xrays
[18:48] <fergusnoble> hehe
[18:48] <jcoxon> says on the side of the tubes - warning x-rays
[18:48] <fergusnoble> it would be good to get the old thing running again
[18:48] <jcoxon> its a little scary
[18:49] <jcoxon> made some progress on my ground control softwar
[18:49] <jcoxon> e
[18:49] <jcoxon> can get the image from my sstv program, display it and then upload it to the tracker
[18:49] <fuzzylugnuts> wow
[18:49] <fergusnoble> jcoxon: cool
[18:49] <fuzzylugnuts> cool!
[18:50] <jcoxon> yeah its coming along nicely
[18:50] <jcoxon> going to do some testing next week in preperation for a second launch attempt
[18:50] <jcoxon> fergusnoble, all cool for postpone this weekend?
[18:50] <fergusnoble> yeah
[18:51] <jcoxon> tis a shame - i was really keen
[18:51] <fergusnoble> yeah
[18:51] <fuzzylugnuts> http://www.pemed.com/techantq/ge200antiqueport36.jpg
[18:51] <fergusnoble> the weekend after looks good though
[18:51] <fuzzylugnuts> thats the machine I picked up
[18:51] <jcoxon> i can't do that weekend :-(
[18:51] <jcoxon> got friends coming to stay
[18:52] <fergusnoble> fuzzylugnuts: cool, did it have voltage and current metering stuff?
[18:52] <jcoxon> right i'll bbl
[18:52] <jcoxon> cya
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[18:52] <fuzzylugnuts> fergusnoble: yepyep
[18:53] <fergusnoble> thats handy, our diy stuff was never very good
[18:53] <fuzzylugnuts> it was awesome, the dial for the exposure length control could be spun completely around, so you could go from the 1/60s setting to the 5s setting in 1 click
[18:54] <fuzzylugnuts> HV current metering is a little tricky
[18:54] <fergusnoble> luckily our transformer had a place to put a shunt on
[18:54] <fuzzylugnuts> oh awesome
[18:55] <fuzzylugnuts> I would have had to put a low value resistor just before the ground on the transformer
[18:57] <fergusnoble> it used to churn out a lot of nastyness when it was on
[18:57] <fuzzylugnuts> like, smoke?
[18:57] <fergusnoble> it would always crash the datalogging pc
[18:57] <fergusnoble> no, interference
[18:57] <fuzzylugnuts> oooh, RF noise
[18:57] <fuzzylugnuts> that is awesome, kinda
[18:57] <fergusnoble> and killed a really nice bench multimeter :(
[18:58] <fergusnoble> the multimeter wasnt even connected to anything, it just had some probes lying across the bench in front of the fusor
[18:58] <fuzzylugnuts> haha
[18:58] <fuzzylugnuts> how exciting
[19:00] <fuzzylugnuts> ever get enough flux to irradiate some silver?
[19:00] <fergusnoble> never tried
[19:01] <fuzzylugnuts> *nod*
[19:01] <fergusnoble> we both went off to uni pretty soon after we got our first neutrons and the project kinda died
[19:01] <fuzzylugnuts> funny how that happens : )
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> HV current is nicely measured by a LED atttached to a fiber optic cable.
[19:03] <fuzzylugnuts> yes, a nice optocoupler.
[19:04] <fuzzylugnuts> ÿI've put most of my effort into this ballooning guff, with the gumstix and microtrak stuff.
[19:04] <fergusnoble> yeah balloons are fun
[19:04] <fuzzylugnuts> its nice and small stuff that I can do in the apartment
[19:05] Action: SpeedEvil ponders fuzzylugnuts pinned to the wall by one that went off early.
[19:05] <fuzzylugnuts> what?
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> A balloon, inflated in an apartment.
[19:06] <fuzzylugnuts> I did that when I got my first one off ebay
[19:06] <fuzzylugnuts> blew it up with a matress inflator
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> I've been having evil thoughts about natural gas balloons.
[19:07] <fuzzylugnuts> Neat, but inefficient
[19:07] <fuzzylugnuts> I use hydrogen now.
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> Only half the lift.
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> I've also contemplated electrolysis.
[19:08] <fuzzylugnuts> too much work when 200ft^3 of h2 is $40 here
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> Dunno where I'd get the H2 though.
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> Locally
[19:08] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: sodium hydroxide and aluminium react to make a load of hydrogen very quickly
[19:08] <fuzzylugnuts> no welding shops?
[19:08] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: i wouldnt recommend it though
[19:09] <fergusnoble> its quite an exothermic reaction
[19:09] <fuzzylugnuts> yah
[19:09] <edmoore> making hydrogen quickly often also means making it hotly though too
[19:09] <edmoore> oh you beat me
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> fergusnoble: did you see the link to the fast reactor description I posted?
[19:09] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: nope
[19:09] <fuzzylugnuts> the military used calcium hydride for h2 generators in the past
[19:10] <fuzzylugnuts> there was one on ebay at one point
[19:10] <fuzzylugnuts> er
[19:10] <fergusnoble> the good thing about sodium hydroxide is you can get it cheaply and in bulk as lye
[19:10] <fuzzylugnuts> no, it was some military surplus site
[19:10] <fergusnoble> over the counter
[19:10] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/browse_thread/thread/e650a9724f5ca204/011ae16d16f3b39f?hl=en&lnk=st&q=hydrogen+cylinder+brass+disk#011ae16d16f3b39f
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> Bang Bang.
[19:13] <fergusnoble> that is the same reaction i was saying about
[19:13] <fuzzylugnuts> Yeah
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> Yes, the 'prompt' variant sounds fun though.
[19:14] <fuzzylugnuts> haha
[19:14] <fuzzylugnuts> "We lost a few buildings that way"
[19:15] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: but why not just use helium?
[19:15] <fuzzylugnuts> expensive!
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> fergusnoble: I've not found anywhere local that sells He.
[19:16] <fergusnoble> yeah, i guess so, but its probably worth it
[19:16] <fergusnoble> if you go through a school or uni you could prolly get a big discount too
[19:16] soneil (n=soneil@89.100.243.212) joined #highaltitude.
[19:17] <fuzzylugnuts> SpeedEvil: how about grocery stores?
[19:17] <fuzzylugnuts> they usually do balloons
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> I can't think off-hand of a shop that does that.
[19:17] <fuzzylugnuts> and sometimes you can give them puppy eyes and they will loan you a full tank
[19:18] <fuzzylugnuts> oh, bummer
[19:18] <fuzzylugnuts> SpeedEvil: what country are you in?
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> UK
[19:18] <fuzzylugnuts> ah, ok
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> Scotland.
[19:19] <fuzzylugnuts> Neat
[19:19] <fuzzylugnuts> I bet your aerial pics will be awesome
[19:19] <fergusnoble> yeah!
[19:20] <fuzzylugnuts> when I was in idaho, we got alot of pictures of sage brush
[19:20] <fuzzylugnuts> http://68.34.212.42/balloon/launch.html
[19:21] <fuzzylugnuts> we plan to send them up from farm country and down in farm country because it easy to retrieve them that way
[19:21] <fergusnoble> nice pics!
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts: cool - stars even
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> fuzzylugnuts: err
[19:21] Action: SpeedEvil notices the stars move as he scrolls.
[19:21] <fuzzylugnuts> you can thank the photography professor for that, he heads the RISE group there
[19:22] <fuzzylugnuts> haha\
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> stars I think will pretty much mean stabilised cam, pointed up
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> Or at least to mis earth.
[19:22] <fuzzylugnuts> you see stars?
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> I thought I did, it was dirt on my screen
[19:23] <fuzzylugnuts> haha, ok
[19:23] icez (n=icez@ip68-98-34-247.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:24] <fuzzylugnuts> the next generation of flight computer I'm putting together is going to cost so much : (
[19:24] <fuzzylugnuts> and I don't have the group's funding anymore
[19:25] sloof3 (n=andy@pdpc/supporter/student/sloof3) joined #highaltitude.
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> sloof3: Also - check sites in topic
[19:26] <fergusnoble> what is in it?
[19:27] <sloof3> I've been tasked by a friend to come up with a way to transmit GPS coordinates from a rocket to a PC which could be as much as 2 miles apart.
[19:27] <fuzzylugnuts> fergusnoble: a gumstix, roboaudio card, 900mhz transciever, dc-dc converter, sensors, a gps
[19:28] <fuzzylugnuts> sloof3: does your friend have a ham license?
[19:28] <sloof3> Not that I'm aware of
[19:28] <fergusnoble> its ok, can do it with unlicenced
[19:28] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah, at that distance
[19:29] <sloof3> If it was just a small module I could tie into a microcontroller and a GPS module I'd be all for it
[19:29] <fuzzylugnuts> I'd go with the linx stuff actually
[19:29] <fergusnoble> sloof3: whats the rocket made from?
[19:29] <sloof3> I'll go get some details
[19:29] <sloof3> All I know is it has the diameter of a telephone pole
[19:29] <sloof3> According to him
[19:29] <fuzzylugnuts> wheeee : )
[19:30] <fergusnoble> its just if its carbon fibre then you have to be clever with your antennas
[19:30] <fergusnoble> because CF is a good rf shielding material :)
[19:31] <fuzzylugnuts> for a rocket, the flight will be so short that you could probably get away with some higher power transmitters without causing too much interference
[19:32] <fuzzylugnuts> radiometrix sells a variety of totally awesome transmitters that would fit your bill
[19:32] <fuzzylugnuts> lemos international is the US distributor of radiometrix
[19:33] <sloof3> It's more about finding the rocket later. Collecting data during the flight would a plus
[19:33] <fergusnoble> also, depending on your transmitter power you may be able to get away with attaching the gps straight to the radio without using a microcontroller
[19:33] <edmoore> order: /boot,/,/home,swap
[19:33] <edmoore> that's meant to be notepad. sorry ignore
[19:34] <fergusnoble> heh
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[19:34] <fergusnoble> edmoore: hows it going?
[19:34] <soneil> multiplayer notepad ++
[19:34] <fuzzylugnuts> fergusnoble: yeah, I did that with the previous setup I had
[19:34] <fergusnoble> fuzzylugnuts: what does the roboaudio do?
[19:34] <edmoore> just doing my raid1 setup as you can prob see, meant to write down the order i'd put the partitions in
[19:35] <edmoore> irc'll do i spose, at least it'll be logged :)
[19:35] <fuzzylugnuts> fergusnoble: its an ATMEGA-128 board with audio capabilities that talks to the gumstix over i2c
[19:35] <fuzzylugnuts> so you can controll the IO pins and ADC and such
[19:36] <fergusnoble> oh neat
[19:36] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah, I used it for datalogging and cutting down on out last launch, and it actually worked
[19:36] <fuzzylugnuts> I used a UHX-1 for the remote tty
[19:38] <fuzzylugnuts> I like the trx natrium42 used alot better
[19:39] <fuzzylugnuts> its the XT09-MI
[19:39] <edmoore> ok, raid1 seems to be rolling. less painful that it could have been.
[19:40] <fuzzylugnuts> yay!
[19:40] <fuzzylugnuts> I -so- need to raid up my harddrives.
[19:41] <edmoore> well I want to put the rest of my degree on this box, so I figure raid would be a good idea
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> Of course you know this.
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> But RAID is not backups.
[19:42] <edmoore> yes.
[19:42] <edmoore> whatever you want to call it
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> Fireproof safe in the shed, or something, with USB key you throw in every couple of days.
[19:42] <edmoore> added buffer between me and disaster
[19:42] <fuzzylugnuts> I eat my usb keys.
[19:42] <edmoore> i'll hvae a working copy of most things on my laptop too
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RAID-YARD-GUARD-OUTDOOR-FOGGER-Flies-ANTS-MOSQUITOES_W0QQitemZ350084077917QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item350084077917&_trkparms=72%3A984|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318
[19:45] <fuzzylugnuts> sloof3: was all this rambling any help?
[19:46] <fergusnoble> SpeedEvil: ?
[19:47] Action: SpeedEvil was being silly on the term RAID.
[19:47] G8KHW (n=Steve@217.47.75.27) joined #highaltitude.
[19:48] <fuzzylugnuts> bbiab, boiling eggs
[19:51] <sloof3> fuzzylugnuts: sorta
[19:51] <sloof3> The radiometrix products look expensive though
[19:51] <sloof3> I was looking for a $50 price point on the radio
[19:52] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah.... you are probably going to have to spend a bit more than that to do the things you want to do
[19:52] <fuzzylugnuts> not much more
[19:53] <fuzzylugnuts> I'd give the linx technologies stuff a shot
[19:54] <sloof3> Maybe I'm looking at the wrong products but 500M doesn't cut it
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> 2 miles on the ground, when it might be actually on the ground in trees, is hard.
[19:55] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[19:55] <fuzzylugnuts> once it gets alittle elevation though the reception will be alot better
[19:56] <fergusnoble> sloof3: if you have line of sight you can get much better than the stated range
[19:56] <G8KHW> yeah we have used the radiometrix to 300Km
[19:56] <G8KHW> line of sight
[19:56] <fuzzylugnuts> sloof3: http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/tx1h.htm
[19:57] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:57] <fergusnoble> sloof3: that was on a 10mW module
[19:57] <soneil> but to be fair, the receiver was a bit more than $50
[19:57] <fergusnoble> true
[19:58] <G8KHW> 151MHz isn't leagal for airbine operation in the UK
[19:58] <G8KHW> airborne
[19:58] <fuzzylugnuts> sloof3: I'm curious... if your friend has a rocket as big around as a telephone pole, and you hav to be 2 miles away from it, it sounds like an extra 100 bucks would be trivial to a project like that
[19:59] <fuzzylugnuts> G8KHW: ahh yeah, it is also available in other frequencies, and I don't know what country sloof3 is in
[19:59] <soneil> especially if that 100 bucks is what's making the difference between retrieving/reusing the equipment or not
[19:59] <fuzzylugnuts> Yeah
[19:59] <fuzzylugnuts> the gps module alone is going to be ~$70
[20:00] <G8KHW> bbl
[20:12] <sloof3> fuzzylugnuts: I can improve on that price point I think
[20:12] <fuzzylugnuts> ok
[20:12] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude.
[20:13] <robert1971> Back...
[20:13] <fuzzylugnuts> wb robert1971
[20:13] <sloof3> fuzzylugnuts: Looking through the catalog I found the TX1H..thanks though
[20:13] <edmoore> this is fun. where the hell did I put that vimrc file
[20:13] <fuzzylugnuts> sloof3: np
[20:14] <robert1971> I'm on a promise from the wife tonight so I'm cooking a nice supper and leaving the computer alone tonight. At least until she's gone to sleep ;-)
[20:16] <fuzzylugnuts> haha
[20:16] <edmoore> avrs can be kinda addictive, i agree
[20:17] <fuzzylugnuts> mmmm. eggs.
[20:18] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[20:20] <robert1971> BTW I got avr-libg, binutils, avrdude and friends working on my ASUS eee900
[20:22] <fergusnoble> yay
[20:22] <fergusnoble> eeeee
[20:23] <fuzzylugnuts> those things rule
[20:27] <phatmonkey> anybody looking for a virtual server?
[20:27] <fuzzylugnuts> negative
[20:27] <phatmonkey> i'm trying to sell this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190242805606
[20:40] <fuzzylugnuts> good luck
[20:41] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:41] <fuzzylugnuts> hey akawaka
[20:41] <akawaka> yo
[20:41] <akawaka> damnit, my laptop fan is making noise
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> phatmonkey: do they actually agree that you can sell it?
[20:41] <robert1971> They've really got cult status these days. Lot of other companies are jumping on the band waggon. This is good 'cause the prices are going to be driven south, but I kind of hope that the asus keeps it's status
[20:42] <akawaka> thats going to annoy me a lot
[20:42] <phatmonkey> SpeedEvil: yeah, appears so
[20:42] <phatmonkey> i'll bbl...
[20:42] <fuzzylugnuts> akawaka: did you launch this summer?
[20:42] phatmonkey (n=ben@scooby.firshman.co.uk) left irc:
[20:43] <akawaka> did one in spring
[20:43] <akawaka> nothing since then
[20:43] <akawaka> been too busy with work
[20:43] <fuzzylugnuts> ah ok
[21:10] <fuzzylugnuts> omg.
[21:10] <fuzzylugnuts> I -love- that silicone tape that seals on itself
[21:12] <natrium42> i have to try it sometime
[21:12] <fuzzylugnuts> it is so awesome.
[21:13] <fuzzylugnuts> too bad its a little on the pricey side
[21:13] <natrium42> would home depot have it?
[21:13] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm not sure
[21:14] <fuzzylugnuts> I picked it up from some place like that
[21:14] <fuzzylugnuts> I don't actually remember where I got this
[21:15] <fuzzylugnuts> oh!
[21:15] <fuzzylugnuts> autozone
[21:16] <fuzzylugnuts> dur.
[21:16] <natrium42> hmm, not sure if we have that
[21:17] <fuzzylugnuts> oh
[21:17] <fuzzylugnuts> UK?
[21:17] <natrium42> canada
[21:17] <fuzzylugnuts> oh, sweet
[21:18] <natrium42> i picked up an iphone 3g yesterday
[21:18] <natrium42> need to figure out how to get broadband on my laptop over it
[21:18] <fuzzylugnuts> how do you like it?
[21:18] <fuzzylugnuts> and btw, loads of the stuff on ebay
[21:18] <natrium42> i like the looks of my old one better
[21:19] <natrium42> but 3g is very nice
[21:19] <fuzzylugnuts> ah
[21:19] <natrium42> i am thinking about jailbreaking it and connecting it to laptop via wifi
[21:19] <natrium42> and then i bet i can make it be a router for the laptop
[21:20] <fuzzylugnuts> haha
[21:20] <fuzzylugnuts> go for it
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[21:22] <natrium42> need broadband on the road for launches :D
[21:22] <fuzzylugnuts> that would be so awesome
[21:23] <fuzzylugnuts> would it run google earth?
[21:23] <natrium42> iphone? no
[21:24] <natrium42> i used google earth on my laptop for tracking
[21:24] <natrium42> broadband is nice to send pictures live to online tracker
[21:25] <fuzzylugnuts> nice deal
[21:27] <natrium42> ooh, somebody already did it --> http://cre.ations.net/blog/post/tether-your-iphone
[21:27] <fuzzylugnuts> win!
[21:27] <natrium42> :D
[21:28] <natrium42> fuzzylugnuts, if you want a good publicity stunt
[21:28] <natrium42> make a payload with just a 3g iphone
[21:28] <fuzzylugnuts> haha
[21:28] <natrium42> i bet that would get into many news sites
[21:28] <natrium42> they like stupid hacks like that
[21:29] <natrium42> (from exp...)
[21:29] <fuzzylugnuts> I'm not that up on things to handle that
[21:30] <fuzzylugnuts> I wish cellular had range at altitude : (
[21:30] <natrium42> yes :(
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[21:30] <natrium42> do older cellphones also get confused?
[21:31] <natrium42> maybe a phone can be found that can handle many cell towers without crashing?
[21:31] <fuzzylugnuts> its the radiation pattern of the antennas, not the inability to handle several sites, I do believe
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> phone masts also have very directional antennas
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> if they paint the sky, they waste power.
[21:31] <fuzzylugnuts> bingo
[21:31] <natrium42> yah...
[21:32] <Shanuson> well the world is round
[21:32] <natrium42> no way!
[21:32] <Shanuson> so you could get a signal form one on the horizon, but none form one below you
[21:33] <natrium42> hmm, you are right
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> But that'd be out of range
[21:33] <fuzzylugnuts> yeah
[21:33] <natrium42> maybe if you could track cell towers
[21:34] <Shanuson> i dont know the range
[21:34] <natrium42> with a patch antenna
[21:34] <natrium42> or even better with a parabolic antenna
[21:35] <fuzzylugnuts> I hope the maxxtream solves my lust for high bandwidth
[21:36] <natrium42> ooh
[21:36] <natrium42> when are you planning to launch?
[21:36] <fuzzylugnuts> who knows
[21:36] <fuzzylugnuts> : P
[21:36] <fuzzylugnuts> next summer probably
[21:37] <fuzzylugnuts> why?
[21:37] <G8KHW> GSM has a maximum range of 40km due to packet turn round delay
[21:38] <Shanuson> gn8
[21:39] <fuzzylugnuts> 'night
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[21:52] <fergusnoble> natrium42: i saw you got an iphone 3g
[21:52] <fergusnoble> would you be interested in collaberating on a tracking app for it?
[21:52] <natrium42> hey fergus
[21:52] <natrium42> sure, how would it work?
[21:53] <fergusnoble> erm, some thing like port this rtty code over to it, and write a gui to display all the things you want to know
[21:54] <fergusnoble> and submit stuff to the tracker
[21:54] <fergusnoble> and show a little map of where it/you are
[21:54] <natrium42> ok, so it would use the microphone connection?
[21:55] <fergusnoble> yeah
[21:55] <fergusnoble> just an idea, think it would e cool
[21:55] <natrium42> yah, definitely
[21:55] <natrium42> i need to set up my dev env first and play a bit with it
[21:55] <natrium42> are you using the inofficial sdk?
[21:56] <fergusnoble> ive got it, ive only played with it a bit, not really used it
[21:57] <fergusnoble> it seems quite nice to use
[21:57] <natrium42> so not the official sdk, right?
[21:57] <fergusnoble> although i don't really know objc yet
[21:57] <fergusnoble> yeah the official one
[21:57] <natrium42> oh
[21:58] <fergusnoble> there is an unofficial one? :)
[21:58] <natrium42> so i should sign up for it then?
[21:58] <natrium42> yes, of course :P
[21:58] <natrium42> how did you think they made all those unauthorized apps :P
[21:59] <fergusnoble> true
[21:59] <fergusnoble> yeah i would sign up for it
[22:00] Action: natrium42 goes to apple site
[22:00] <fergusnoble> its pretty painless
[22:03] <natrium42> "You are now a Registered iPhone Developer."
[22:03] <natrium42> omg :)
[22:03] <natrium42> guh, i need to reboot to osx, don't i? :P
[22:07] Action: natrium42 reboots
[22:07] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc:
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[22:20] natrium42 (n=natrium4@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:26] <fuzzylugnuts> I kinda wish I didn't drink those 3 bottles of absinthe back when I was doing my masters
[22:26] <natrium42> lol
[22:33] <fuzzylugnuts> it is on the verge of being totally worth it though
[22:34] <natrium42> damn leopard
[22:34] <fergusnoble> are you on tiger?
[22:34] <natrium42> i haven't booted it for a while, now it wants to do a dozen of updates
[22:34] <natrium42> no, lepard
[22:34] <fergusnoble> ah ok
[22:34] <fergusnoble> i was on tiger, so it gave me a good excuse to change to leo
[22:35] <fergusnoble> was a real pita
[22:35] <natrium42> well, it came with this MBP
[22:35] <natrium42> but the first thing i did is install bootcamp and linux & vista
[22:36] <natrium42> i usually boot linux
[22:48] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-73-114.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:49] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:50] <fuzzylugnuts> Hey
[22:50] <jcoxon> hey
[22:51] <natrium42> hey jcoxon
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[22:52] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[22:52] <jcoxon> i've been testing uploading pictures to the tracker
[22:52] <natrium42> cool, any problems?
[22:52] <jcoxon> ummm yeah
[22:53] <jcoxon> while tracker has the pictures, track has the position
[22:53] <jcoxon> i'm wondering if i'm linking them properly
[22:53] <jcoxon> as in i use curl to upload the pic
[22:54] <jcoxon> then i send in the url including the picture= bit
[22:54] <natrium42> then it won't add the point, only the picture
[22:54] <jcoxon> oh right
[22:54] <natrium42> if you want to add the location, then you need to send w/o picture=
[22:54] <jcoxon> yet its appeared on /track/
[22:54] <jcoxon> thats cool
[22:54] <natrium42> oh, right
[22:54] <jcoxon> (actually works better for me that way)
[22:54] <natrium42> track ignores pictures
[22:55] <jcoxon> fair enough
[22:55] <natrium42> so it's fine?
[22:55] <jcoxon> yup
[22:55] <natrium42> k
[22:55] <jcoxon> basically my code gets the latest picture in the sstv download file, displays it then if you press the upload button does its thing
[22:56] <natrium42> nice
[22:57] <natrium42> and the locations are automatically added as they come in?
[22:57] <jcoxon> if anyone is running leopard and wants a play get in touch
[22:57] <jcoxon> yup
[22:57] Action: natrium42 just rebooted to leopard to install iphone sdk
[22:57] <jcoxon> shall i upload a copy?
[22:58] <natrium42> sure
[22:58] <natrium42> do i need any other progs?
[22:58] <jcoxon> in theory no
[22:58] <jcoxon> but
[22:58] <jcoxon> it looks for a log file on my desktop so you might want to change that
[22:58] <jcoxon> give me 5 mins
[22:58] <natrium42> i need to reboot -- system update
[22:58] <natrium42> brb
[22:59] <fuzzylugnuts> whee
[22:59] natrium42 (n=natrium4@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left #highaltitude.
[23:08] natrium42 (n=natrium4@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:08] <natrium42> back
[23:08] <natrium42> i should probably install xcode too, eh?
[23:08] <natrium42> iphone sdk relies on it, doesn't it?
[23:08] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:09] <jcoxon> just uploading the source now
[23:10] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:haps:haps-1#ground_station
[23:11] <natrium42> ok, great
[23:11] <jcoxon> but you'll need xcode
[23:11] <natrium42> yep, installing
[23:12] <akawaka> it takes 5 minutes to generate the wav file?!
[23:12] <jcoxon> yup
[23:12] <jcoxon> it could be a hell of a lot faster
[23:12] <jcoxon> its pretty rough code
[23:13] <natrium42> do i need webobjects?
[23:13] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:13] <jcoxon> ummm
[23:13] <natrium42> well, i will install it
[23:13] <jcoxon> actually you need webkit
[23:13] <natrium42> it's not too much
[23:13] <jcoxon> but i think thats included
[23:13] <akawaka> probably would be a lot easier to go from YUV output to sstv too
[23:14] <akawaka> avoid the colorspace conversion
[23:15] <jcoxon> akawaka, i'm in touch with the guy who writes QSSTV about a command line version
[23:15] <jcoxon> so hopefully something will appear soon which is more optimised
[23:16] <natrium42> you can probably also go from jpg directly to audio output
[23:16] <jcoxon> oh sure
[23:16] <jcoxon> i quite like this way though
[23:16] <natrium42> seems to work quite well
[23:16] <fergusnoble> natrium42: sorry i was away, i think the sdk includes xcode
[23:16] <jcoxon> as if it goes wrong it carries on
[23:16] <fergusnoble> natrium42: yo dont have to install it separately
[23:17] <natrium42> fergusnoble: yep, i noticed on the apple page
[23:17] <natrium42> that's why iphone sdk is 1.2GB :S
[23:19] <akawaka> how does slow scan tv compare to just sending a jpeg over packet?
[23:19] <jcoxon> akawaka, the problem is that i only have a downlink with packet therefore can't acknowledge
[23:20] <jcoxon> so it makes sending stuff alot harder
[23:20] <jcoxon> while slow scan just gets on with it
[23:20] <akawaka> gotcha!
[23:20] <akawaka> slowscan is probably a lot more efficient than digital for this anyway
[23:20] <jcoxon> its working rather well, need to test it a bit more but everything is coming together
[23:20] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:22] <natrium42> jcoxon: cool, it works
[23:23] <jcoxon> oh wow
[23:23] <jcoxon> still a bit rough with some file paths hardcoded (such as the sstv pictures)
[23:23] <natrium42> dunno how to use it though :P
[23:24] <jcoxon> hehe, there isn't much to do
[23:24] <natrium42> there's some weird behavior when i resize the window
[23:24] <jcoxon> it gets the latest info from the radio1.txt line, sticks it in the appropriate box and then uploads it to the tracker
[23:24] <jcoxon> hmmmmm i haven't sorted that out yet
[23:25] <natrium42> no biggie
[23:26] <jcoxon> if you load a picture into the viewer (bottom left grey box)
[23:26] <natrium42> looks very nice, good job
[23:26] <jcoxon> and double click it allows you to edit it
[23:26] <jcoxon> very cool
[23:27] <jcoxon> it needs a lot more work
[23:27] <jcoxon> want to intergrate the IRC bot as well
[23:29] <edmoore> jcoxon:
[23:29] <edmoore> hanging on intramfs
[23:29] <edmoore> ever experienced that?
[23:29] <edmoore> during boot
[23:29] <jcoxon> hmmmmm
[23:29] <jcoxon> getting a VFS error?
[23:30] <edmoore> a who?
[23:30] <jcoxon> obviously not
[23:30] <jcoxon> walk me through what you've done
[23:31] <edmoore> i think it might not know which /boot to go from
[23:31] <edmoore> as there are two on raid1
[23:32] <jcoxon> quite possibly
[23:32] <jcoxon> whats your bootloader? grub or lilo?
[23:33] <edmoore> grub
[23:33] <jcoxon> you should be able to change which boot its using
[23:33] <jcoxon> when it gets to grub press 'e' to edit
[23:34] <jcoxon> and then have a fiddle
[23:35] <fuzzylugnuts> mmm, fiddle.
[23:35] <edmoore> so when does it get to grub in the boot process - does it whizz past or hang there
[23:35] <jcoxon> grub is the first bit
[23:35] <jcoxon> it loads the kernel and stuff
[23:35] <jcoxon> usually it pauses for a bit
[23:35] <edmoore> so hold e down on startup
[23:35] <jcoxon> ummmm just after the bios has started
[23:36] <edmoore> ok
[23:36] <natrium42> fergusnoble: SpeakHere sample looks like a good starting point
[23:36] <jcoxon> the ubuntu version is often graphical
[23:37] <fergusnoble> natrium42: yup
[23:37] <fergusnoble> edmoore: on ubuntu by default it doesnt display the usual menu
[23:38] <jcoxon> natrium42, ooo found a security problem
[23:38] <fergusnoble> you have to press escape, its the first thing after the bios
[23:38] <jcoxon> you don't need a password to delete if you go to the basic tracker
[23:38] <natrium42> jcoxon: UNPOSSIBLE!
[23:38] <jcoxon> (/track/)
[23:38] <edmoore> jcoxon: so
[23:38] <edmoore> i went livecd
[23:39] <edmoore> decided not to bother, and selected the bottom option on the menu
[23:39] <edmoore> 'boot from hard disc 1'
[23:39] <natrium42> jcoxon: what's the problem?
[23:39] <edmoore> and it has just booted up fine
[23:39] <edmoore> so I assume it is grub not knowing which /boot to use
[23:39] <jcoxon> using track/admin you can delete without a password
[23:39] <jcoxon> tracker/admin needs a password
[23:40] <natrium42> hmm, really?
[23:40] <natrium42> oh, i might have used the older code when moving to new domain :S
[23:40] <fergusnoble> edmoore: its not really possible to be ambiguous in choosing which partition to use for /boot
[23:40] <natrium42> because i did update the old tracker with the password
[23:40] <natrium42> an easy fix, though
[23:40] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:40] <natrium42> i think i found one problem with *your* code :D
[23:41] <jcoxon> edmoore, hmmm so you really want the copy the livecd settings
[23:41] <jcoxon> natrium42, haha there are lots
[23:41] <natrium42> ok, so when you upload via curl
[23:41] <jcoxon> yup
[23:41] <natrium42> is that a blocking system call?
[23:41] <natrium42> because i see that you sleep 5 seconds
[23:41] <natrium42> is 5 seconds going to be enough for mobile broadband?
[23:42] <natrium42> or maybe you could just switch to blocking system call instead
[23:42] <jcoxon> hmmm good point, on my wireless it was okay
[23:42] <natrium42> then when curl finishes, your program resumes
[23:42] <jcoxon> but mobile
[23:42] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:42] <jcoxon> good plan
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> if it's bash, or shell similar, you could always use 'wait'
[23:43] <natrium42> eh? he just needs to wait for curl to finish
[23:43] <natrium42> i don't know ruby, unfortunately, so no idea how to do it
[23:45] <edmoore> it is booting fine now
[23:45] <edmoore> i did 'shutdown -r now' in the leadup to the hang
[23:47] <natrium42> grr, how do i mount ftp with read permissions in finder?
[23:47] <natrium42> fine, i will install transmit
[23:48] <natrium42> i hope i can find my serial num that i purchased a while back...
[23:48] <fergusnoble> natrium42: check out cyberduck
[23:49] <edmoore> +1 cyberduck. though I haven't found letting you be sudo
[23:50] <natrium42> nvm, i found it
[23:51] <fuzzylugnuts> to any hams...... how's 20m?
[23:51] <jcoxon> oooo i like cyberduck
[23:53] <natrium42> jcoxon: ok, admin fix0red
[23:53] <jcoxon> natrium42, coolio
[23:54] <edmoore> + 10 for textmate
[23:55] <natrium42> he should port it to linux :P
[00:00] --- Fri Aug 8 2008