highaltitude.log.20080806

[00:03] <edmoore> yes
[00:03] <edmoore> right bed
[00:04] edmoore (n=edmoore@66.122-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) left irc:
[00:56] <Laurenceb> what you up to?
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[08:16] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[08:16] <jcoxon> just updating the records page, what was the final hight of Nova 7?
[08:18] <jcoxon> height*
[08:19] <akawaka> morning
[08:19] <jcoxon> morning akawaka
[08:19] <jcoxon> hows things?
[08:22] <akawaka> i've spent a significant amount of time trying to maintain a system we have for paging memory into an cpu for a particular system we have running on it
[08:22] <gordonjcp> morning
[08:22] <akawaka> and it has gotten more and more difficult as people have made changes to how that memory is used
[08:23] <jcoxon> akawaka, sounds complicated
[08:23] <jcoxon> gordonjcp, morning
[08:23] <akawaka> this afternoon i realised that the dataset is actually small enough to fit entirely on the cpu and doesn't need to be paged in and out
[08:23] <akawaka> doh!
[08:28] <jcoxon> :-)
[08:35] <edmoore> jcoxon: good question
[08:35] <jcoxon> (i know i keep asking, if you point me in the right direction i'll have a search)
[08:36] <edmoore> I think the corrupted csv file on fnoble's eeepc would be a good start
[08:36] <edmoore> but failing that, the highest recorded in natrium's tracker might help
[08:36] <jcoxon> okay, i'll speak to him later
[08:36] <akawaka> hah
[08:36] <jcoxon> oh right well have that data
[08:36] <edmoore> cool
[08:36] <edmoore> right, going to go to work
[08:36] <edmoore> will be back online in about 4 minutes
[08:37] <akawaka> damnit
[08:37] <edmoore> oh, I love being so close
[08:37] <akawaka> wednesday morning virus scan
[08:37] <akawaka> awrg
[08:37] <gordonjcp> virus scan?
[08:38] <akawaka> company virus scan kicks in on wednesday morning
[08:38] <akawaka> slows compiles and pretty much everything down
[08:38] <gordonjcp> ah, they must be using one of these primitive operating systems that don't have a viable security model ;-)
[08:39] <akawaka> fo sho
[08:39] <gordonjcp> that's one of the reasons why I packed IBM
[08:40] <akawaka> okay, home time
[08:41] <akawaka> gotta be back here in a few hours
[08:41] <jcoxon> cya
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[08:50] <jcoxon> you really do live round the corner
[08:52] <edmoore_> it took for than 4 minutes though, because a) had to put monitor and pc in the boot to fire up here and b) forgot to switch my profile to work on my laptop
[08:52] <edmoore_> so there was about 5 mins between saying g'bye and being here, and about 5 mins of not realising i had the wrong profile
[08:52] <gordonjcp> heh
[08:52] <gordonjcp> I keep connecting to the wrong wifi at work ;-)
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[08:59] Nick change: Tygrys^_ -> Tygrys^
[09:03] <edmoore_> screen is another wonderful unix tool
[09:03] <edmoore_> oh, why did I waste 18 yearsof my life on windows
[09:03] <jcoxon> oh i love screen
[09:04] <edmoore_> Can't wait to get me bleeding server going now!
[09:04] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:04] <edmoore_> still can't decide whether to get ubuntu server and add or get xubuntu and reduce
[09:04] Action: jcoxon is updating his wiki page
[09:04] <edmoore_> probably server + add
[09:04] <jcoxon> yeah i think thats best
[09:04] <edmoore_> which wiki page - on ukhas?
[09:05] <jcoxon> no peghab
[09:05] <edmoore_> link me when you're updated
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[09:05] <edmoore_> will be nice to be flying pegasus again
[09:05] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[09:05] <jcoxon> its a bit of a mess and if we launch people might want to have a look
[09:05] <jcoxon> yeah i've missed pegasus
[09:06] <edmoore> the grandfather of uk ballooning and that
[09:06] <jcoxon> i've done this bit:
[09:06] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/gumstix_bible
[09:06] <edmoore> the oldest blood-line in the fuedal system of hab flights
[09:06] <jcoxon> Pegasus Goliath
[09:06] <jcoxon> mwaahhahahahaah
[09:08] <edmoore> very pretty
[09:09] <edmoore> maybe it could send a maniacle laugh over packet as a tune-up
[09:09] <jcoxon> edmoore, i'm really keen to launch this weekend, you'll need to kick me if its not sensible
[09:10] <edmoore> well could I reserve my kick till thurs?
[09:10] <jcoxon> sure
[09:10] <edmoore> it's about the right balance for forecast vs logistics, i think
[09:10] <jcoxon> exactly what i was thinking
[09:11] <jcoxon> at the moment i see some potential gaps but everything could change
[09:12] <edmoore> so i'd say def sat over sun atm
[09:12] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:12] <jcoxon> also ground winds are low on sat
[09:13] <jcoxon> and its sunny
[09:13] <edmoore> very much morning
[09:13] <jcoxon> yup
[09:13] <edmoore> fast ascent rate
[09:13] <jcoxon> high jetstream, its up at 200mb rather then 300mb
[09:13] <edmoore> fingers crossed
[09:13] <edmoore> cutdown?
[09:14] <jcoxon> timer based and also polygon
[09:14] <edmoore> funky
[09:14] <jcoxon> i plan to test that when i get home in the car
[09:14] <edmoore> steve's landing prediction algorithm?
[09:14] <jcoxon> no, just some perl for a polygon
[09:14] <edmoore> ok, well polygon will have to be a function of wind, i guess
[09:15] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:haps:cutdownpolygon.pl
[09:15] <jcoxon> worked out how you can draw it on google earth
[09:15] <edmoore> don't speak perl - is it that line-crossing algorithm I did?
[09:15] <jcoxon> and then have a converter so that it'll cutdown outside that polygon
[09:15] <jcoxon> i stole it from an article
[09:16] <jcoxon> way beyond me
[09:16] <edmoore> lol
[09:16] <edmoore> well be sure it can deal with odd things
[09:16] <jcoxon> i plan to!
[09:16] <edmoore> like if it's right ontop of a line
[09:17] <jcoxon> still got the timer
[09:17] <jcoxon> i'm debating on how long
[09:17] <jcoxon> probably 2 hours
[09:17] <edmoore> depends on balloon I guess
[09:18] <jcoxon> better safe then sorry
[09:24] <edmoore> very much with this weather
[09:24] <edmoore> think you could stretch to a 1.2?
[09:25] <jcoxon> yeah i was thinking that
[09:25] <jcoxon> the payload is about 750g
[09:25] <edmoore> and if you do plump for churchill, there's He, if that can sway you
[09:25] <edmoore> assuming fergus, anyway
[09:26] <jcoxon> Spoke to Doug about this
[09:26] <jcoxon> the plan is for EARs methinks
[09:26] <jcoxon> i'll email round in a bit
[09:26] <jcoxon> (sorry for leaving it so long about that)
[09:31] <edmoore> no problem
[09:31] <edmoore> it's no biggie for me
[09:31] <edmoore> not even a smallie
[09:32] <jcoxon> if we go ahead you planning to drive up?
[09:32] <jcoxon> cool
[09:38] <edmoore> jcoxon: sorry was setting up some sims on every available amd core in the building
[09:39] <jcoxon> no worries
[09:39] <edmoore> yes, fergus will probs come up here and then we'll drive from here to cam
[09:39] <edmoore> splitting costs
[09:39] <edmoore> = big smile
[09:39] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:39] <jcoxon> staying in cam?
[09:39] <edmoore> dunno
[09:39] <edmoore> perhaps
[09:39] <jcoxon> okay
[09:40] <edmoore> depends on logistics
[09:40] <jcoxon> okay
[09:40] <edmoore> imight go home
[09:40] <jcoxon> will you are welcome to come and crash at mine
[09:40] <jcoxon> though its a bit of distance from cam :-p
[09:46] <jcoxon> hmmm, now i need so pictures to break up all this text
[09:52] <edmoore> yep!
[09:53] <jcoxon> haha, yep is an answer to what?
[09:56] <edmoore> pictures
[09:57] <jcoxon> oh right
[09:57] <jcoxon> will do in a bit
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[10:05] <robert1971> anyone used an avrdragon to program there chips?
[10:05] <robert1971> their even :-)
[10:12] <edmoore> nope
[10:12] <edmoore> does it burn the program onto them?
[10:12] <edmoore> hohoh. the oldies....
[10:17] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[10:44] <robert1971> I can be used for isp and jtag programming and winavr seems to support it and it's only 32 squid from Farnell and it's made by Atmel + it does JTAG debug for 32k oe less chips which ticks my box at them moment. Anyone using more than ATmega32 ?
[10:44] <robert1971> I=It I personally dont have a 6 or 10 pin interface. Working on it :)
[10:51] <edmoore> robert1971: laurenceb has used the 128 recently I think
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[11:31] <robert1971> jcoxon: Hows the weather looking for the w/e. Is Sunday an option as well?
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[11:33] <jcoxon> robert1971, the weather isn't looking great
[11:33] <jcoxon> sunday is an option though sat looks better at the moment
[11:39] Nick change: Ei5GTB_ -> EI5GTB
[11:40] <edmoore> jcoxon: you said you need to change a bios setting to allow the thing to boot w/o a keybaord. really?
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> I had some annoying boards that would not boot without a video card.
[11:41] <edmoore> So I can't just tell ubuntu to start without loading X and be done with it, I need to fiddle with bios too?
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> maybe
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> it depends on teh bios
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> you need to check it does in fact boot with no keyb
[11:45] <jcoxon> edmoore, yeah sometimes
[11:46] <jcoxon> it isn't difficul
[11:46] <jcoxon> t
[11:46] <edmoore> kk, will check when I power it up
[11:53] <robert1971> edmoore: In the bios it's the error checking. HALT ON NO KEYBOARD that you want to disable
[11:53] <edmoore> robert1971: tvm. Will try and fire it up during my lunch break
[11:54] <edmoore> y'know, I really want to make a custom matx case. I reckon I could make of a similar size with much better airflow
[11:55] Action: jcoxon 's has run out of time on his truetty shareware
[11:55] <edmoore> the cpu cooler blows out the exhaust air radially - so you have some radial airspeed vectors, but you also have an airflow from the front to the back of the case, meaning the radii that point in the direction from back to front of the case pretty much cancel out with the blwing from the case fans
[11:56] <edmoore> which makes the whole thing a bit silly
[11:56] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: have you looked at gmfsk
[11:56] <gordonjcp> ?
[11:56] <edmoore> if you design around the cpu cooler, you have a flow coming in from above and outwards at all the sides. That'd probably work a lot better
[11:56] <jcoxon> yup
[11:57] <jcoxon> gordonjcp, but i want the nice packet decoding
[11:57] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: what packet decoding?
[11:57] <jcoxon> ax.25
[11:57] <gordonjcp> oh, ok
[11:57] <gordonjcp> shouldn't be hard
[11:58] <jcoxon> i'll register methinks, truetty is a really good bit of softwre
[11:58] <jcoxon> and i've got it all set up now
[11:58] <gordonjcp> fairy nuff
[11:58] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: are you a student?
[11:59] <jcoxon> yup
[11:59] <gordonjcp> ok
[11:59] <gordonjcp> pm me please
[12:00] Action: EI5GTB has past experience with ax25
[12:01] <EI5GTB> what software you registering jcoxon
[12:01] <EI5GTB> ?
[12:01] <jcoxon> Truetty
[12:02] <EI5GTB> oh
[12:02] <EI5GTB> never heard of it
[12:02] <EI5GTB> i always use linuc for my ax25 capers
[12:03] <EI5GTB> its built right into the kernal
[12:03] <gordonjcp> EI5GTB: I've been looking for good docs on linux ax25
[12:03] <jcoxon> oh sure
[12:03] <gordonjcp> all of it seems to be decades out of date
[12:03] <gordonjcp> well, *a* decade
[12:03] <jcoxon> EI5GTB, thats what i have onboard teh flight computer
[12:04] <jcoxon> gordonjcp, oh its certainly old school
[12:04] <jcoxon> with terrible docs
[12:04] <EI5GTB> i se
[12:04] <EI5GTB> ax25 is as old as the hills
[12:05] <edmoore> or could get it on srcf maybe
[12:05] <edmoore> but that would need continuity of cusf
[12:07] <jcoxon> EI5GTB, i'm using 'beacon' to transmit the coords
[12:07] <gordonjcp> jcoxon: yes, it is
[12:07] <gordonjcp> I had it working years ago
[12:12] <EI5GTB> jcoxon, ah, cool
[12:12] <EI5GTB> are you using a tnc or soundmodem>?
[12:15] <jcoxon> soundmodem
[12:15] <jcoxon> took me ages to cross compile it
[12:18] <EI5GTB> hmm
[12:18] <EI5GTB> tbh, i hate soundmodem, i always had less than reliable results at best
[12:18] <EI5GTB> i started using tncs, and i never looked back
[12:18] <EI5GTB> exept to reminiss how bad it was
[12:18] <jcoxon> its doing the job right now
[12:19] <jcoxon> doesn't need to do much though
[12:19] <EI5GTB> tx will always be grand, but rx..
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[12:46] <fergusnoble> yo'
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[12:53] <edmoore> yo
[12:54] <fergusnoble> hows it all going?
[12:58] <fergusnoble> ed, what do you mean by robs tracker?
[13:14] <edmoore> fergusnoble: sorry, prediction software
[13:14] <edmoore> brain is totally elsewhere today
[13:14] <fergusnoble> erm, i dont know
[13:14] <fergusnoble> i think its on his user account at the dept which i have the password for
[13:14] <edmoore> wouldn't mind taking a peek at the source
[13:15] <fergusnoble> but he keeps the latest version on his usb stick i think
[13:15] <edmoore> the usb working copy principle
[13:30] <jcoxon> right i'm off home
[13:30] <jcoxon> cya all
[13:31] Action: SpeedEvil waves.
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[14:48] <jcoxon> hehe, the joy of mobile broadband
[14:49] <jcoxon> no no its:
[14:49] <edmoore> oh clearly
[14:49] <Ei5GTB> !gimme lotsa moniez
[14:49] <jcoxon> haha
[14:49] <jcoxon> but it doesn't work
[14:49] <jcoxon> edmoore are you bored?
[14:49] <jcoxon> or did i miss something?
[14:50] <edmoore> totally
[14:51] <edmoore> it's the physics version of 'compiling!' but without someone else to have a sword-fight on a swivel chair with
[14:52] <jcoxon> not really following you
[14:53] <jcoxon> you are running sims and no one is around to pass the time with?
[15:00] <edmoore> yes
[15:00] <edmoore> the reference was to the xckd cartoon
[15:01] <edmoore> http://xkcd.com/303/
[15:01] <jcoxon> make sense now
[15:01] <jcoxon> well i'm trying to work out to display an image in rubycocoa
[15:03] <jcoxon> edmoore, this might be more appropriate:
[15:03] <jcoxon> http://xkcd.com/456/
[15:04] <jcoxon> ed 12 weeks later
[15:05] <edmoore> :)
[15:06] <edmoore> already had chris telling me to use gentoo\
[15:06] <jcoxon> its a slippery slope
[15:07] <edmoore> hehe
[15:07] <edmoore> could go slackware
[15:07] <edmoore> or just buil me own distro
[15:08] <jcoxon> haha
[15:08] <edmoore> or write me own OS
[15:08] <jcoxon> you'll be back to mac os x soon
[15:08] <edmoore> I'm an embedded guy. How hard can it be?
[15:09] <edmoore> tbh I'm not really sure i want any kind of X at all atm
[15:09] <edmoore> orca is cool, orca I like
[15:09] <edmoore> might throw that on one day
[15:10] <jcoxon> hardcore command line
[15:11] <edmoore> well, not sure about hardcore, but command line certainly
[15:11] <edmoore> will wait for the need for omething in each case
[15:12] <edmoore> sharing ethernet connection over WPA will be first priority
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[15:23] <fergusnoble> edmoore: the mould is here, the mould is here
[15:23] <fergusnoble> woot woot woot
[15:23] <fergusnoble> and many celebrations
[15:23] <edmoore> where is here?
[15:23] <fergusnoble> well, cambridge
[15:23] <edmoore> oh cool
[15:23] <edmoore> complete with precision threaded rod?
[15:23] <fergusnoble> eh?
[15:24] <fergusnoble> there is no rod
[15:24] <edmoore> cf dowels
[15:24] <fergusnoble> oh right, i guess so
[15:24] <fergusnoble> i havnt seen it yet, but they were in the design
[15:25] <edmoore> rods or dowels?
[15:27] <fergusnoble> ok, phoned iain they put the dowls in
[15:27] <fergusnoble> yeah it was designed with dowels
[15:27] <fergusnoble> for some reason iain decided to put 4 in the design, but it locates ok aparantly
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[15:55] <edmoore> fergusnoble: that is good news
[15:55] <fergusnoble> freenode is getting crappy
[15:56] <fergusnoble> never had this many s=netsplits
[16:06] <natrium42> perhaps your tubes are clogged
[16:12] <Shanuson> maybe freenode is getting more popular, and the number of netsplits corrolates with the number of people/servers
[16:47] <edmoore> 15 mins to server build
[16:47] <edmoore> woooooo
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[18:02] <jatkins> hi all
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[18:04] Action: robert1971 dances for joy. Cracked the f'ing usb isp
[18:05] <robert1971> Celibrate for me guys
[18:06] <jatkins> lol
[18:06] <jatkins> well done
[18:07] <jatkins> I've been at the bloody gps all day
[18:07] <jatkins> it's a sirfstarii
[18:07] <jatkins> does anyone know of a link to a pinout?
[18:07] <jatkins> can't find anything on google
[18:07] <robert1971> The fucking header on the board is around the other way to the header on the programmer
[18:07] <jatkins> or sirf's site
[18:07] <jatkins> what microcontroller are you using?
[18:08] <robert1971> Got the circuit diagrams out for the programmer and board and pin1 on the programmer is pin 10 on the board !!! Can you f'ing believe it !!!
[18:08] <jatkins> lol
[18:08] <robert1971> One from olimex
[18:08] <jatkins> ok
[18:08] <robert1971> the board is from active robots
[18:09] <jatkins> doesn't the bootloader allow you to upload without a programmer?
[18:09] <jatkins> or send data or whatever
[18:09] <robert1971> The two programmers they supply probably have this arangement
[18:09] <jatkins> ok
[18:09] <robert1971> Hum never heard of that. How do you do that?
[18:09] <robert1971> I just saw a 10 pin connector
[18:09] <jatkins> well I've only used arduinos
[18:09] <robert1971> Can i connect straight to the pins
[18:09] <jatkins> but the diecimila bootloader does it without a programmer
[18:10] <jatkins> not sure
[18:10] <jatkins> I'm usually the one asking the qns ;)
[18:10] <robert1971> What do you connect to?
[18:10] <jatkins> diecimila's just a usb upload
[18:10] <jatkins> well the board's rs-232
[18:10] <robert1971> The chip is soldered to the dev board and there is only the 10pin job to connect to
[18:10] <jatkins> but it has an ftdi converter chip
[18:10] <jatkins> oh
[18:11] <robert1971> The programmer do you mean
[18:11] <jatkins> no programmer
[18:11] <jatkins> just does it through usb
[18:11] <jatkins> serial-usb
[18:11] <jatkins> I'll get a link
[18:11] <jatkins> http://www.arduino.cc/en/Hacking/Bootloader
[18:12] <jatkins> "Not using a bootloader
[18:12] <jatkins> If you want to use the full program space (flash) of the chip or avoid the bootloader delay, you can burn your sketches using an external programmer. "
[18:12] <jatkins> well perhaps there is a programmer
[18:12] <robert1971> The dev board I have is this http://www.active-robots.com/products/controllr/m32db.shtml
[18:12] <jatkins> but it's internal if there is one
[18:12] <jatkins> ok
[18:12] <jatkins> arduinos generally use atmega8/168s
[18:13] <jatkins> so 8 or 16-bit vs. your 32-bit
[18:13] <jatkins> well no, both the atmega8 and 168 are 8-bit risc
[18:14] <robert1971> I see I should have got one of those arduinos
[18:14] <jatkins> they're quite cheap
[18:14] <robert1971> Save myself a bloody headach
[18:14] <jatkins> they're open source
[18:14] <jatkins> yeah
[18:14] <jatkins> so there are loads of clones
[18:14] <jatkins> which are even cheaper
[18:14] <jatkins> http://moderndevice.com/RBBB_revB.shtml
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[18:15] <jatkins> that's what I'm flying
[18:15] <jatkins> hi jcoxon
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[18:15] <jatkins> hi edmoore
[18:15] <jcoxon> hey hey
[18:15] <jatkins> how's it going?
[18:15] <jcoxon> not bad, am now at home home rather then london home
[18:16] <jatkins> hehe
[18:16] <jatkins> spent most of the day on the gps
[18:16] <jatkins> I can't find a pinout on google
[18:16] <jcoxon> working?
[18:16] <jatkins> it's a sirfstarII
[18:16] <jatkins> nope
[18:16] <jatkins> nearly
[18:16] <jcoxon> oh jatkins gps is ususally easy!
[18:16] <jatkins> I just need the pinout as I'm finishing off soldering
[18:16] <jatkins> yeah
[18:16] <robert1971> Guys I'm cebrating getting the programmer working
[18:16] <jatkins> just mc- gave this to me but I can't find the schematic or pinout on sirf's site
[18:17] <jatkins> :)
[18:17] <jcoxon> jatkins, what make is it?
[18:17] <jatkins> sirf
[18:17] <jatkins> http://www.sirf.com/products/gps_chip7.html
[18:17] <jatkins> they have a 2-page pdf without a pinout or proper schematic! :(
[18:17] <jcoxon> is that the actually chip?
[18:17] <jcoxon> while i know its a sirfII they are usually rebranded
[18:18] <jatkins> ok
[18:18] <jatkins> oh right
[18:18] <jatkins> um
[18:18] <jatkins> not sure
[18:18] <jcoxon> any names or numbers on it?
[18:18] <jatkins> yeah
[18:18] <jatkins> serial number
[18:18] <jatkins> I'll google it
[18:18] <jatkins> not much luck last time though..
[18:18] <jatkins> 4235400081
[18:19] <jcoxon> any names?
[18:19] <jatkins> "k 4104"
[18:19] <jatkins> nothing else
[18:19] <jatkins> I thought it was a sirfstarIII
[18:19] <jatkins> but mc- said it's II
[18:19] <jatkins> it's unbranded
[18:19] <jatkins> I've emailed him in case he has a link
[18:19] <jatkins> no reply yet though
[18:19] <jcoxon> the sirf website won't help
[18:20] <jatkins> ok
[18:20] <jatkins> I don't know what supplier he got it from
[18:20] <jcoxon> they jsut make the chips which are then packaged according to the company
[18:20] <jatkins> white label?
[18:20] <jcoxon> sort of
[18:20] <jatkins> ok
[18:20] <jatkins> they say it doesn't work <60,000ft
[18:21] <jatkins> that's the missile restriction, right?
[18:21] <jcoxon> yup
[18:21] <jatkins> damn
[18:21] <jcoxon> >60,000ft
[18:21] <jatkins> are they unlockable?
[18:21] <jcoxon> no
[18:21] <jatkins> oh right
[18:21] <jatkins> damn
[18:22] <jcoxon> bbl
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[18:22] <jatkins> cya
[18:23] Action: robert1971 does a few more somursaults (SP?) kisses the ground and shouts loudly
[18:23] <robert1971> The programmer works under winavr too
[18:23] <jatkins> cool
[18:24] <natrium42> oh em gee
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[18:24] <jatkins> bbs
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[18:25] <robert1971> I still can't belive that the header on the dev board is around the other way to the programmer
[18:26] <natrium42> haha, i usually check using ground pins
[18:26] <natrium42> before i connect anything
[18:27] <robert1971> Pin 1 is mosi on the programmer but it's pin 10 on the dev board !!!
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[18:28] <robert1971> Which is wrong, i'm going to sue someone for the three other programmer I brought
[18:28] <jatkins> lol
[18:30] <jatkins> edmoore: does the missile restriction stop everything on a gps - i.e. velocity, etc.?
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> it suppresses all output.
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> Theoretically over 60000 feet, and 1000 knots.
[18:30] <jatkins> oh
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> in some GPSs, when either happens, which is incorrect.
[18:31] <jatkins> ok
[18:31] <jatkins> thanks
[18:32] <jatkins> how are altimeters at 20km+?
[18:32] <jatkins> barometric
[18:33] <jatkins> (or any other types)
[18:33] <natrium42> worked fine for me
[18:33] <jatkins> ok
[18:33] <natrium42> though i don't know what the error was
[18:33] <jatkins> lol
[18:33] <natrium42> :P
[18:33] <jatkins> was gps alt. working too at max. altitude?
[18:33] <jatkins> (altimeter max. altitude)
[18:34] <natrium42> nope, only below 24km
[18:34] <natrium42> but it's a good baseline
[18:34] <jatkins> ok
[18:34] <jatkins> was it barometric or radar/
[18:34] <jatkins> ?
[18:34] <jatkins> *
[18:34] <natrium42> barometric
[18:34] <jatkins> ok
[18:34] <jatkins> I guess radar would have little room for error?
[18:35] <natrium42> see graphs here --> http://natrium42.com/balloon/flight2/
[18:35] <jatkins> thanks
[18:35] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/balloon/flight2/altitude-graph.gif
[18:35] <jatkins> thanks
[18:35] <natrium42> it seems that if i adjusted the formula to get altitude, it would be very good
[18:36] <jatkins> I guess if the gps had a max altitude of 18 km that would be pretty unprecise
[18:36] <jatkins> well you wouldn't know
[18:36] <jatkins> ..I should probably get a better gps
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[18:37] <jatkins> from wikipedia: "Global Positioning System (GPS) receivers can also determine altitude by trilateration with four or more satellites. However, altitude determined using autonomous GPS is not precise or accurate enough to supersede the pressure altimeter for aviation use without using some method of augmentation."
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[18:37] <jatkins> so I guess the altimeter was more likely to be correct
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> Well...
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> That's not strictly true.
[18:39] <jatkins> ok
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> It's generally lots more accurate than the pressure altimeter.
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[18:40] <SpeedEvil> As the pressure altimeter measures pressure, not altitude.
[18:40] <jatkins> I guess the equation can be a bit off?
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> and that changes by a fair amount depending on weather.
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> More the weather.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> Plus - if A and B are flying along at a given pressure altitude, they will - in a similar area - be at the same height.
[18:41] <jatkins> ok
[18:41] <jatkins> yeah
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> Whereas GPS errors can be randomish
[18:41] <jatkins> oh
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> With a all-satellite tracking balloon payload exposed to a full sky,
[18:42] <jatkins> but they're more likely to be accurate (contrary to wikipedia) beacause they're basically satellite radar transliteration?
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> I'd guess that even without WAAS or whatever you'd get better than +-10m of accuraccy.
[18:42] <jatkins> triliteration*
[18:43] <jatkins> because*
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> Pressure altitude varies by some +-100m or more even in moderate weather.
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[18:43] <jatkins> yikes :|
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> (back of the envelope calc)
[18:44] <jatkins> np
[18:44] <jatkins> :)
[18:44] <jatkins> what gps are you using?
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> various
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> I'm not flying anything ATM
[18:46] <jatkins> ok
[18:46] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[18:46] <jatkins> have you flown anything so far?
[18:46] <jatkins> (I haven't - yet)
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> no
[18:47] <jatkins> ok
[18:49] <jatkins> my plans so far are: HABEP-1: test electronics, etc.; HABEP-2: glider flight with HABEP-1 payload; start rocket engine development
[18:49] <jatkins> then fly above the Kármán line
[18:49] <jatkins> _hopefully_
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[18:54] <jatkins> hi Hiena
[18:54] <jatkins> hi soneil
[18:54] <Hiena> Good evening!
[18:54] <soneil> howdy
[18:55] <robert1971> Cooking supper for the children and still reveling in programmer success with be back in 30 mins
[18:56] <jatkins> lol
[18:56] <jatkins> cya
[19:05] <jatkins> bbl
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[19:40] <jatkins> hi all
[19:58] <jatkins> bbl
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[20:11] <robert1971> Hi all
[20:12] <robert1971> My programmer is working fine but it seems to keep running when the program connecotr is in place. Probably due to a pin around the wrong way should something be held high?
[20:15] <akawaka> what keeps running?
[20:16] <robert1971> The dev board
[20:16] <robert1971> Nomally a little red led comes in to show that the programing cable is attached and the cpu stops executing code
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[21:00] <jatkins> hi all
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> hi]]
[21:02] <jatkins> hey
[21:03] <jatkins> still mulling around which gps to use
[21:03] <jatkins> -- I need to get a new one as these cutout at 60,000 ft
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> lassen IQ from sparkfun IIRC is popular
[21:03] <jatkins> so does SiRFstarIII
[21:03] <jatkins> cool, thanks, I'll have a look
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> !logs
[21:03] <jatkins> ?
[21:04] <jatkins> "!logs"?
[21:04] <Shanuson> cant you get your altitude from something diffrent? so you use your gps only below 60k feet
[21:05] <jatkins> I guess
[21:05] <jatkins> but I guess an altimeter would be unreliable?
[21:05] <jatkins> (barometric)
[21:05] <Shanuson> or do you need all coordinates?
[21:05] <jatkins> nope
[21:06] <jatkins> just altitude
[21:06] <jatkins> so I know what the max. altitude was
[21:06] <jatkins> ideally have lon./lat. too so I can work out max. downrange, but that's not important
[21:06] <jatkins> well I guess an altimeter wouldn't be too bad
[21:07] <Shanuson> well 2 values to compare are always better
[21:07] <jatkins> yeah
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[21:10] <jatkins[1]> back
[21:10] <jatkins[1]> sorry about that ... NIC screwed up
[21:10] <Shanuson> the problem with the barimeter, it only messures presure, so you have to clac your altitude out of it, dont know how presure varys at one altitude over time and higher than 60k ft
[21:10] <jatkins[1]> yeah
[21:11] <jatkins[1]> I think the equation is based on your max. altitude
[21:11] <jatkins[1]> i.e. a given equation for a given limit
[21:12] <jatkins[1]> not necessarily that the limit is the max. altitude you reach though
[21:13] <Shanuson> if you go 60k ft the equation should be the same as if you go to 100k ft or so
[21:14] <jatkins[1]> oh right
[21:14] <jatkins[1]> ok
[21:14] <jatkins[1]> "Operational (COCOM) Limits
[21:15] <jatkins[1]> Altitude: 18,000 m
[21:15] <jatkins[1]> Velocity: 515 m/s
[21:15] <jatkins[1]> Either limit may be exceeded, but not both"
[21:15] <jatkins[1]> do you know if that applies to all GPSs with the 60k ft restriction?
[21:17] <Shanuson> no
[21:17] <Shanuson> oh, the german wikipedia article is much more detailed http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barometrische_H%C3%B6henformel
[21:17] <jatkins[1]> oh
[21:18] <jatkins[1]> so I guess if it doesn't say that you can't exceed either of them?
[21:19] <Shanuson> hm i guess if you are below 515m/s you can go as high as you like
[21:19] <jatkins[1]> oh cool
[21:19] <jatkins[1]> just on this gps or any?
[21:20] <Shanuson> thats how i understand that "Either limit may be exceeded, but not both"
[21:20] <jatkins[1]> yep
[21:20] <jatkins[1]> doesn't say it on SiRFstar II or IIs
[21:20] <jatkins[1]> II or IIIs*
[21:21] <jatkins[1]> I guess that would be reasonable though - an ICBM would pretty much have to exceed both
[21:21] <Shanuson> yep
[21:21] <jatkins[1]> natrium42: you about?
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[21:30] Nick change: jatkins[1] -> jatkins
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[22:56] <Laurenceb> hi all
[23:03] <natrium42> hah
[23:03] <natrium42> "The investigation into Saturday night's failed SpaceX Falcon 1 launch has revealed the spent first stage separated and then recontacted the second stage due to residual thrust from the main engine, the company's founder says. "
[23:05] <akawaka> yuck
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[23:12] <natrium42> hello steves
[23:16] TheRealRocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.27) joined #highaltitude.
[23:17] <natrium42> hello 3rd steve!
[23:17] <TheRealRocketBoy> humm - thunderstorm keeps dropping my broadband out
[23:17] <natrium42> ah
[23:17] <natrium42> do you think kaymont will give a discount if i order 10 balloons?
[23:18] <natrium42> or does the quantity have to be bigger?
[23:18] <TheRealRocketBoy> deja vous
[23:18] <natrium42> *vue :P
[23:18] <TheRealRocketBoy> they might do I have never been that rich - the most I have ordered at one go is 8
[23:19] <natrium42> ah
[23:19] <TheRealRocketBoy> deja vous = you again
[23:20] <natrium42> hehe
[23:20] <natrium42> they have been quite friendly to me so far
[23:20] <natrium42> asked them to overnight me some balloons and i had them the next day
[23:21] <TheRealRocketBoy> yeah - quite helpful but not totally reliable
[23:26] <akawaka> full of hot air
[23:29] <natrium42> akawaka, we should do a bulk purchase of balloons :P
[23:29] <natrium42> and get the price down
[23:29] <TheRealRocketBoy> Well its only happend once - but I ordered some balllons - when they hadn't turned up after 3 weeks it turned out they had lost my oder
[23:30] <TheRealRocketBoy> order
[23:30] <TheRealRocketBoy> still I didn't get charged either
[23:30] <natrium42> it's hard to keep track of everything...
[23:30] <natrium42> you have to watch those companies and make sure they deliver :D
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[23:33] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoyReally
[23:33] <RocketBoyReally> wow its a bit bumpy here
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[23:50] <RocketBoyReally> night
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[00:00] --- Thu Aug 7 2008