highaltitude.log.20080727

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[00:01] <natrium42> hi miron
[00:01] <natrium42> you're at uwaterloo??
[00:01] <miron> Yep!
[00:01] <miron> Are you the guy who sent that balloon from Grand Bend?
[00:01] <natrium42> yep
[00:01] <natrium42> are you a student there?
[00:02] <miron> Perfect! Actually I represent a bunch of students who are working on a high altitude balloon project at the university
[00:02] <miron> yes, I am
[00:02] Action: natrium42 is finishing CS
[00:02] <natrium42> oh, neat
[00:02] <miron> you go to this school?
[00:02] <natrium42> yep
[00:02] <miron> oh wow!
[00:02] <natrium42> :D
[00:02] <miron> haha well we'd love to talk to you, or if you want to join us :D it's our 4th year design project
[00:02] <natrium42> i didn't know we had a balloon team
[00:03] <natrium42> oh, sure
[00:03] <miron> we're all in engineering
[00:03] <miron> your pictures and videos are awesome! great job
[00:03] <natrium42> makes sence, CS is dull
[00:03] <natrium42> *sense
[00:03] <natrium42> thanks
[00:04] <miron> so are you in school right now? or on co-op?
[00:04] <natrium42> i am taking 3 courses this summer
[00:04] <natrium42> one of them is real-time :S
[00:04] alexthe5th (n=Alex@ecnaab154.uwaterloo.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[00:04] <miron> ah okay
[00:04] <miron> haha real time?
[00:04] <alexthe5th> hello!
[00:04] <natrium42> (sooo timeconsuming)
[00:04] <miron> we just finished our real-time OS
[00:04] <natrium42> hey alexthe5th
[00:04] <miron> but I heard CS 4xx is brutal
[00:04] <natrium42> yes, it is
[00:05] <natrium42> i am burned out
[00:05] <natrium42> but it's a lot of fun
[00:05] <alexthe5th> hey natrium... i'm sitting right next to miron
[00:05] <miron> yeah I know the feeling
[00:05] <natrium42> cool, nice to meet ya
[00:05] <alexthe5th> also part of this ballooning thing
[00:05] <natrium42> have you done it before?
[00:06] <alexthe5th> i haven't - to be honest, none of us really know that much about ballooning but we're treating it more of a communications challenge than the physical act of getting the balloon up there
[00:06] <natrium42> right
[00:06] <natrium42> exactly
[00:06] <natrium42> an amateur radio license would be useful
[00:07] Action: natrium42 still has to do his
[00:07] <alexthe5th> because from what we gathered, we can buy one of those totex weather balloons, which seem to be relatively painless to launch and reliable enough
[00:07] <natrium42> or you can try using 900MHz like i tried
[00:07] <miron> yeah, we're trying to leverage some consumer technologies to communicate
[00:07] <miron> we were thinking of using wimax
[00:07] <alexthe5th> one of our professors recommended using wimax from that altitude, which would be an impressive challenge
[00:08] <natrium42> yah, their antennas might be directed towards ground
[00:08] <natrium42> horizontally, that is
[00:08] <natrium42> for example, cell phones die at about 1km
[00:08] <natrium42> i imagine it's similar for wimax
[00:08] <miron> ah no but we would use our own wimax "cell"
[00:08] <miron> rather than any commercial deployment
[00:08] <natrium42> oh, okay
[00:08] <natrium42> sounds intriguing
[00:09] <alexthe5th> basically, brute-force the signal strength with a big parabolic dish on the ground
[00:09] <miron> it should be okay, but it may be that the range is simply too much and too many packets would be dropped
[00:09] <natrium42> would be cool if it worked
[00:09] <alexthe5th> defiitely
[00:09] <alexthe5th> *definitely
[00:09] <natrium42> just have a backup cellular module
[00:09] <natrium42> then if anything goes wrong, you still get the payload back
[00:09] <alexthe5th> we should meet up at some point, maybe grab a beer or something if you're interested in talking more about ballooning
[00:10] <natrium42> yah, definitely
[00:10] <miron> yeah we were thinking of either using a cellular or putting one of the much lower baud XTend modems or equivalent to ensure there's some contact at all times even if WiMax drops out
[00:11] <natrium42> i used xtend
[00:11] <natrium42> but with high gain omni on the ground
[00:11] <natrium42> range was not enough
[00:11] <natrium42> should be enough with yagi, though
[00:11] <natrium42> i recommend cellular as a backup
[00:11] <miron> yeah I think definitely it'd need to be a directional antenna of some kind
[00:11] <miron> yeah we were looking at some GPS/GSM combo chips for that
[00:13] <natrium42> coverage is good here in south ontario :)
[00:13] <natrium42> with radio, you don't get the final landing location anyway
[00:13] <miron> yeah it's all flat
[00:13] <natrium42> since the payload drops below the horizon
[00:13] <miron> yeah, line of sight and all that
[00:13] <natrium42> (unless you follow it well)
[00:13] <miron> or you can have two balloons and have one relay ;)
[00:13] <miron> a little too extreme, perhaps
[00:14] <alexthe5th> in an ideal case we're using a parabolic dish but we're starting to think about the challenges in aiming it
[00:14] <alexthe5th> yagi may be easier
[00:15] <natrium42> right
[00:15] <natrium42> those guys in UK use very low power transmitter (because of local laws)
[00:15] <natrium42> and they get good range with yagi on the ground
[00:15] <natrium42> by pointing it in the general direction
[00:16] <natrium42> here's the omni i used, btw --> http://natrium42.com/gallery2/v/balloon/setup/main-chase-car.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[00:16] <alexthe5th> that's right... we'll have to see, i'm interested to see how well it'll work for very high-frequency signals, like wimax
[00:16] <natrium42> oh, definitely, would be a good test :)
[00:17] <alexthe5th> we were thinking buying one or two of these, maybe put it up on MC ;)
[00:17] <icez> are the laws in canada a little less strict than the UK?
[00:17] <alexthe5th> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:VLBA_St_Croix-04.jpg
[00:17] <natrium42> haha
[00:17] <natrium42> i want to have one like that in my backyard!
[00:17] Action: Laurenceb back
[00:18] <natrium42> icez, yah, we can use higher power stuff
[00:18] <Laurenceb> we use 434MHz 10mw here
[00:18] <Laurenceb> you can get a few hundered Km if you do it carefully
[00:18] <icez> oki
[00:18] <miron> do any of you guys have experience in using hydrogen instead of helium in your balloons to get a higher ascend rate?
[00:19] <alexthe5th> we did some calculations and we got very impressive ascent rates with hydrogen
[00:19] <alexthe5th> it also dramatically reduces the lateral drift in the 0'-60000' stage, which makes it a lot easier to retrieve the payload
[00:20] <natrium42> jcoxon might have used hydrogen
[00:20] <natrium42> i remember somebody did
[00:21] <icez> you got some nice sharp pictures on yours natrium42 :]
[00:21] <natrium42> it's possible to do it safely if you are careful
[00:21] <natrium42> for example, grounding yourself when handling it and the balloon
[00:21] <miron> yeah, no smoking :P
[00:21] <natrium42> icez, thanks, canon rules
[00:21] <icez> :p
[00:22] <jcoxon> hello
[00:22] <icez> hey
[00:22] <miron> hey
[00:22] <jcoxon> hydrogen?
[00:22] <alexthe5th> hey
[00:22] <jcoxon> nope not me
[00:22] <jnd> I've been reading the nova7 radio log, found many badgers: Bamwgr BadNet Batwur BFdger Badgmr Badgad Cadger BaC BadRd Ba4jer BadoO BaeEdr BadsE Baf Barowe BDdwu Badggr BaH Bedg :)
[00:22] <natrium42> oh, must have been somebody else
[00:23] <natrium42> MUSHROOM MUSHROOM
[00:23] <jcoxon> people have enough issues with us launching balloons - they'd get even more upset if we were using hydrogen
[00:23] <icez> :P
[00:23] <alexthe5th> we found a good hydrogen supplier, so getting a hold of the stuff is easy
[00:23] <jnd> BadNet is best :)
[00:23] <miron> well I talked to some guys at Environment Canada and they use hydrogen exclusively
[00:23] <miron> but in terms of permits, it may make things different
[00:23] <jcoxon> hydrogen does have an added advantage
[00:23] <natrium42> it's cheaper than helium too :)
[00:23] <alexthe5th> US government agencies do the same thing- strictly hydrogen
[00:24] <jcoxon> and if you are set up to use it then its worth it
[00:24] <icez> wear your safety goggles ;)
[00:24] <jcoxon> i just don't like things that potentially could go bang
[00:24] <alexthe5th> that was our thinking too - we like saving money and we have the equipment here at the university, so we should be good to go
[00:24] <jcoxon> (even though i know that you need a pretty particular H to O2 mix
[00:24] <alexthe5th> also, it cuts the drift in half!
[00:25] <jcoxon> alexthe5th, where you launching from?
[00:25] <miron> and we could probably squeeze some more altitude
[00:25] <natrium42> jcoxon, they are at my university
[00:25] <miron> well we were thinking of launching in the same area as natrium42
[00:25] <jcoxon> oh right
[00:25] <jcoxon> so a mix of land and water
[00:25] <icez> doesn't hydrogen expand more than helium though? wouldn't the balloon burst earlier?
[00:25] <miron> it's naturally placed so as not to put the payload in the water or into a random high-traffic airport
[00:25] <jcoxon> oh right
[00:26] <jcoxon> we have the joy of never being further then 70miles from the sea :-p
[00:26] <alexthe5th> we were actually thinking about launching from the water but it's a bit of an extra challenge
[00:26] <miron> well a water landing could be done... :P
[00:26] <alexthe5th> but it saves the trouble of having to haul it out of a farmer's field
[00:27] <alexthe5th> if you're unlucky, nothing like an angry redneck with a shotgun... ;)
[00:27] <natrium42> lol
[00:27] <jcoxon> oh there are a lot worse places for it to then a farmers field
[00:27] <jcoxon> do night launches
[00:27] <natrium42> alexthe5th, my first payload landed on a street in kitchener
[00:27] <jcoxon> retrieve early in the morning
[00:27] <natrium42> and i got a call from a guy
[00:27] <natrium42> :D
[00:27] <miron> hhahah
[00:27] <miron> yeah we were thinking up different scenarios
[00:27] <natrium42> lucky too, since the GPS crashed
[00:28] <alexthe5th> well, the worst-case scenario is that it lands on an airport runway
[00:28] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:28] <alexthe5th> *that* could turn ugly fast
[00:28] <icez> it'd probably fall in the middle of the desert if I launched in arizona :p
[00:28] <miron> landing on top of the CN tower would be one interesting challenge
[00:28] <natrium42> lol
[00:28] <natrium42> the probability is pretty low that you hit someone
[00:28] <miron> luckily Alex is an expert building climber, or he'll learn very fast
[00:28] <natrium42> but it's relatively high that you land near somebody
[00:29] <natrium42> XD
[00:29] <alexthe5th> actually, by looking at the map and the projections
[00:29] <alexthe5th> if we launch from central waterloo
[00:29] <icez> there was a balloon in the sky a couple days ago but I couldn't see any payloads from the binoculars :/
[00:30] <alexthe5th> it'll probably land right in the middle of pearson international airport
[00:30] <miron> we have a lot of hot air balloons in this area
[00:30] <natrium42> alexthe5th, yah, you have to launch somewhere in the west
[00:30] <miron> they land near our university
[00:30] Action: natrium42 launched from lucknow, on
[00:30] <alexthe5th> natrium, yeah, that's what we were thinking too - drive out to grand bend or somewhere in that area
[00:31] <natrium42> lucknow!
[00:31] <natrium42> how can you fail if you launch from a town with that name?
[00:31] <alexthe5th> that's true!
[00:31] <miron> maybe if you had lucky too late
[00:31] <miron> *luck
[00:31] <jnd> the town has name lucknow? lol
[00:32] <icez> lol
[00:32] <alexthe5th> lucknow, the new home of high-altitude ballooning
[00:32] <natrium42> yah, i know a farmer family there that let me launch from their property
[00:32] <alexthe5th> in theory we can just launch from the side of a road somewhere
[00:32] <miron> or the back of a moving pick up truck
[00:32] <natrium42> hehe, why not
[00:33] <natrium42> although that would have to be helium
[00:33] <alexthe5th> miron, i'll leave it up to you to inflate the hydrogen from the back of a moving truck ;)
[00:33] <alexthe5th> i'll be far, far away
[00:33] <miron> hey, I'm an engineer, just automate it all and run it from the comfort of my chair here at "mission control"
[00:33] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:33] <jcoxon> need an auto balloon launcher
[00:33] <icez> automatic balloon tie-up?:o
[00:34] <natrium42> jcoxon, YOU are an auto balloon launcher
[00:34] <jcoxon> me?!?
[00:34] <icez> jcoxon: no luck on the water tower?:P
[00:34] <jcoxon> icez, still looking
[00:34] <natrium42> jcoxon, well, how many launches have you done? i rest my case.
[00:34] <jcoxon> i've launched 8 payloads now
[00:34] <jcoxon> and helped with a lot more
[00:35] <jcoxon> but if you don't include in africa i reckon rocketboy is getting close
[00:35] <jnd> when will be the next launch?
[00:35] <jcoxon> i plan to launch 9th august
[00:35] <jcoxon> after my exams
[00:35] <jcoxon> :-p
[00:35] <icez> did you guys put up any new stuff on nova7?
[00:35] <natrium42> grr
[00:35] <natrium42> not after my exams :/
[00:36] <jcoxon> icez, it was identical
[00:36] <icez> aw
[00:36] <jcoxon> natrium42, but we're going to be doing a month of launching
[00:37] <natrium42> cool
[00:37] <jcoxon> its all about the packet radio i've got working - downlinking photos
[00:37] <jcoxon> :-p
[00:37] <natrium42> i am planning to do a launch too after exams
[00:37] <jcoxon> once i work it out
[00:37] <natrium42> need to ask for launch permission asap...
[00:39] <icez> :(
[00:39] <natrium42> alexthe5th & miron, going to go the the trains lab now
[00:39] <icez> i need to make one :P
[00:39] <icez> i've been here listening and looking at all the pretty things
[00:39] <natrium42> if you're on campus we can meet
[00:39] <miron> hey we're in our smelly ECE dungeons
[00:39] <miron> we can meet up there
[00:40] <natrium42> lol, it's like a maze to me
[00:40] <natrium42> i always get lost
[00:40] <miron> lol
[00:40] <miron> around what time will you be there?
[00:41] Action: jcoxon wants an supermarket sweep competition in the Sparkfun warehouse
[00:41] <natrium42> miron, around 20:30
[00:42] <natrium42> programmers work at night, as you know
[00:42] <jnd> yeah, thats why its 1:42 here :p
[00:43] <miron> haha okay
[00:43] <Laurenceb> that reminds me, time to check sparkfun for nw products
[00:44] <natrium42> miron, i'll be in the lab for the next few days anyway
[00:44] <Laurenceb> oh new site
[00:44] <natrium42> so just message me
[00:44] <miron> okay
[00:44] <miron> we'll come by around 2030 the
[00:44] <miron> *then
[00:44] <miron> we're just doing documentation for our OS
[00:45] <natrium42> aah, what does the OS run on?
[00:45] <Laurenceb> wtf http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8703
[00:45] <Laurenceb> why would you want to be able to track 54 sats ?!
[00:45] <Laurenceb> GPS only supports 32
[00:45] <natrium42> Laurenceb, some are from the same sat
[00:45] <natrium42> just different path
[00:45] <natrium42> as the signal bounces
[00:46] <natrium42> from hills, trees, etc
[00:46] <natrium42> but 54 does sound like an overkill if it's not a typo
[00:46] <jnd> souns like marketing
[00:46] <Laurenceb> hmm I dont think so
[00:47] <Laurenceb> you look for the best correlator peak
[00:47] <Laurenceb> so one channel per sat
[00:47] <Laurenceb> this is groovy http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8656
[00:47] <Laurenceb> pity it would be useless on a UAV
[00:48] <natrium42> wow, nice
[00:48] <natrium42> but $$$
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[00:50] <Laurenceb> but as theres no gyros its going to get very confused on a UAV
[00:50] <natrium42> hey, there is no dream chip yet
[00:50] <natrium42> so you still need a separate 3-axis gyro setup
[00:51] <Laurenceb> hehe IMU on chip would be cool
[00:51] <Laurenceb> but if that is a single die in there then they seem to have integrated the magnetic sensors with the mems
[00:51] <natrium42> what i like about sparkfun (amongst other things) is that they make great photos
[00:51] <Laurenceb> which I guess would be the biggest problem
[00:52] <Laurenceb> but IMO it may well be seperate dies gold banded together, especially at that price
[00:52] <Laurenceb> *bonded
[00:53] <icez> lol
[00:53] <natrium42> gotta go to the lab, later
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[00:56] <Laurenceb> what do people think to this servo? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ANSMANN-RACING-HIGH-TORQUE-METAL-GEAR-SERVO_W0QQitemZ280248186027QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280248186027&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
[00:59] <Laurenceb> or http://tinyurl.com/67aql4 ?
[01:03] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[01:04] <jcoxon> night all
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[01:31] <natrium42> i be back
[01:42] <icez> wb
[02:02] <Laurenceb> what do people think is most likely to jam at low temperatures? nylon or brass?
[02:05] <natrium42> teflon!
[02:05] <natrium42> i mean, teflon would be best
[02:05] <natrium42> i think
[02:06] <Laurenceb> yeah
[02:06] <Laurenceb> oh well, got to get some sleep, cya all
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[02:08] <icez> freezer test :P
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[10:23] <edmoore> morning al
[10:23] <edmoore> l
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[11:27] <SpeedEvil> morning (belated)
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[11:50] <Laurenceb> hi everyone
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> hi
[11:53] <Laurenceb> looks like its going to be as hot as yesterday :-/
[11:53] Action: SpeedEvil rejoices in his latitudinal protection.
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[12:25] <Laurenceb> edmoore_: about?
[12:25] <edmoore_> y
[12:27] <Laurenceb> servos: what do you think is most liely to jam at low temperature?
[12:27] <Laurenceb> metal gears (brass?), nylon, or the hitek resin stuff
[12:27] <edmoore_> the grease freezes
[12:27] <Laurenceb> sure, I can swap out the grese
[12:27] <edmoore_> metal is prob the safest bet
[12:28] <Laurenceb> but I was wondering if theres a risk of differential contraction causing a jam
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> Nylon as I understand it is reasonably OK.
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[12:31] <SpeedEvil> Nylon as I understand it is reasonably OK.
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> Even at low temps
[12:35] <Laurenceb> guess its a combination of coefficient of friction, thermal expansion, and compressability
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> and not-become-horribly-brittle-at--50c-coefficient
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> this is for what - the parathingy?
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> Or the helium valve?
[12:48] <Laurenceb> both
[12:48] <Laurenceb> not that I have time to work on anything at the moment :-(
[12:49] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[12:53] <edmoore_> hi
[12:53] <edmoore_> .nick edmoore
[12:53] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[12:53] <edmoore> there we go.
[12:54] <edmoore> http://SpaceFellowship.com/Forum
[12:55] <edmoore> and also fergus did 20 secs of python to get us a gallery
[12:55] <edmoore> http://www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/images/nova6selected/
[12:58] <jcoxon> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/images/nova6selected/PICT0093.JPG
[12:58] <jcoxon> this pose has been stolen from Laurenceb
[12:59] <edmoore> Fergus says he was being ironic.
[12:59] <edmoore> ...
[12:59] <jcoxon> yeah yeah
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[13:03] <jatkins> hi everyone
[13:10] <edmoore> jatkins: hi
[13:10] <edmoore> just made a proper gallery
[13:11] <edmoore> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/images/nova6selected/PICT0093.JPG
[13:11] <edmoore> http://www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/images/nova6selected/
[13:15] <jatkins> cool
[13:15] <jatkins> are the nova 7 pics up?
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> As I understand it there were only really a couple of usable pics from nova7
[13:20] <jatkins> ok
[13:20] <jatkins> edmoore: what is the minimum temperature ~30 km?
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> jatkins: -50Cish
[13:21] <jatkins> ok
[13:21] <jatkins> thanks
[13:21] <jatkins> I've been looking for a thermistor on sparkfun
[13:21] <jatkins> found this: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=245
[13:21] <jatkins> -55C to +125C
[13:21] <jatkins> I guess that should be okay?
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> I don't know.
[13:22] <jatkins> np
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> Check that that package is actually rated from -55 to 125
[13:22] <jatkins> ok
[13:22] <jatkins> http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS18B20.pdf
[13:22] <jatkins> according to the datasheet it is
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> The TO92 variant?
[13:22] <jatkins> well +-0.5V
[13:22] <jatkins> C*
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> What are you going to be reading it with?
[13:23] <jatkins> yeah
[13:23] <edmoore> Electronics can be pushed outside their ratings normally
[13:23] <jatkins> arduino
[13:23] <jatkins> ok
[13:23] <jatkins> it just gives out a binary or hex word
[13:23] <jatkins> so I guess you just read it with a GPIO
[13:23] <jatkins> in binary mode
[13:23] <jatkins> rather than mess around with hex
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> Pretty much.
[13:24] <jatkins> ok, cool
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> It's a special protocol - the one-wire protocol.
[13:24] <jatkins> yeah
[13:24] <jatkins> I hadn't heard of it before
[13:24] <jatkins> but I should be able to just use a GPIO in digital mode?
[13:24] <jatkins> so digitalRead()
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> I don't know what you mean.
[13:25] <jatkins> it's an arduino function
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> You have to implement the - moderately complex - protocol.
[13:25] <jatkins> for GPIOs
[13:25] <jatkins> ah
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> google arduino 1-wire
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> maybe
[13:25] <jatkins> ok
[13:25] <jatkins> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Learning/OneWire
[13:25] <jatkins> first hit on the list :)
[13:25] <jatkins> thanks
[13:26] <jatkins> ah cool ... there's an arduino library for it
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> http://scipp.ucsc.edu/outreach/balloon/atmos/The Earth.htm
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> temp
[13:28] <jatkins> thanks
[13:28] <jatkins> g2g
[13:28] <jatkins> bbl
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[13:31] <Laurenceb> lol why is fergus wearing eye protection ?!
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> Maybe they were using hydrogen.
[13:31] <Laurenceb> and why is that my pose ?!
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[13:32] <jcoxon> hehe Laurenceb
[13:32] <jcoxon> it was the pose you had on your flight computer's screen when it booted!
[13:32] <jcoxon> oh and safety goggles are standard now
[13:33] <Laurenceb> oh yes I remember
[13:33] <jcoxon> when launch balloons you need to be wearing:
[13:33] <Laurenceb> hehe thats at the bottom of the sea now
[13:33] <jcoxon> baseball cap (prefereable a NASA one)
[13:33] <edmoore> Laurenceb: your lcd screen
[13:33] <edmoore> it's called 'the Laurence'
[13:33] <jcoxon> Aviator sun glasses
[13:33] <jcoxon> and safety goggles
[13:33] <edmoore> goggles for pyros
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: is there any suggested music?
[13:33] <edmoore> jcoxon has the launch look down to a tee
[13:34] <Laurenceb> oh noes I've spawned a meme
[13:34] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: top gun
[13:34] <edmoore> duh
[13:34] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, i have a playlist
[13:34] <jcoxon> ranging from flight of the valkaries
[13:34] <jcoxon> to S club 7 - reach for the sky
[13:34] <Laurenceb> 0873 is pretty sweet
[13:34] <jcoxon> its an eclectic list
[13:34] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Beatles - Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds?
[13:34] <edmoore> link?
[13:34] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, yeah
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> Russ Abbot - Happy Atmosphere?
[13:35] <jcoxon> i might add a page to the wiki on how to dress appropriately for ballooning
[13:35] <Laurenceb> you've got to be able to see to newcastle at least
[13:35] <jcoxon> and of course hte classic 99 red balloons
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: english or german version? I rather like the german.
[13:36] <jcoxon> oh german all the way
[13:37] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[13:39] <Laurenceb> edmoore: another servo question, what do you think to http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=220261470869&Category=34056&_trksid=p3907.m29 ?
[13:39] <edmoore> if it's got the torque, cool
[13:40] <edmoore> however have always found micro servos to be very sensitive
[13:40] <edmoore> to voltages and how you look at them
[13:40] <Laurenceb> I was just a bit worried it seems to be unbranded
[13:40] <Laurenceb> don't want to get cheap chinese tronics
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> Well.
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> AIUI all servos - even the branded ones at the lower end of the market are chinese.
[13:41] <Laurenceb> sure
[13:41] <Laurenceb> but the unbranded ones have more probability of poor quality control / design
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> True.
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> Test the crap out of them in the freezer I guess.
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> if I turn my freezer up all the way, it goes to -29.
[13:42] <Laurenceb> interesting
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> And you could make a little peltier box to go down to -50 from there.
[13:42] <Laurenceb> I've used a peltier off a minifridge
[13:42] <Laurenceb> to get to -25c
[13:42] <Laurenceb> maybe if it was in my freezer
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> GEtting vacuum at the same time would be tricky, but may not be required.
[13:44] <Laurenceb> I made a huge thermal test chamber at uni, but I'm not there any more :-/
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> What's the security like?
[13:44] <Laurenceb> haha
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> I hadn't realised -50C is about a minimum for the lower atmosphere.
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> After 10Km ish it starts going back up.
[13:45] <Laurenceb> basically just a big box made from insulation panels, you fill the bottom with dry ice then turn on the fans
[13:47] <Laurenceb> one wire temperature sensors are perfect for this
[13:50] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: tropopause
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> Yes, I thought it was higher.
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> I hadn't bothered looking at the temperature before, only the density.
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> As you don't really care about the temperature if you're at mach 8.
[13:50] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:mihab:mihab2tempexternalvalt.gif?cache=cache
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> what's that sensing from?
[13:51] <Laurenceb> I recorded that a while back, its higher on ascend due to solar heating
[13:51] <Laurenceb> a one wire sensor on the side
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> of?
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> oh
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> what's the lumpy trace?
[13:52] <Laurenceb> I'm guessing solar heating as the payload spins or something
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> that's internal temp?
[13:53] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:mihab:p8150058.jpg the sensor is just above the camera
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> What's the smooth trace on then?
[13:54] <Laurenceb> ballistic descent :P
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> Internal heating being significant maybe.
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> versus well-cooled by fast air
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> though solar gain'd work for that too
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> Actually yes, you do seem to be having a consistent rotation thing going on there.
[14:02] <edmoore> Laurenceb: did you have a gyro on it?
[14:05] <Laurenceb> nope, that was way back in 2006
[14:07] <Laurenceb> you can derive the troposheric and strtospheric temperature profiles theoretically with pretty good accuracy
[14:08] <Laurenceb> when you get the ozone heating in the upper stratophere it gets a bit more complicated
[14:09] <Laurenceb> also the tropopause is higher at lower latitudes due to higher humidity
[14:10] <Laurenceb> which changes the lapse rate
[14:12] <Laurenceb> lapse rate = delta_T/delta_altitude
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[14:16] <Laurenceb> hi jatkins
[14:16] <jatkins> hi Laurenceb
[14:16] <jcoxon> is anyone making a sparkfun order in the near future
[14:16] <jatkins> might do
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[14:16] <jatkins> is the P&P expensive?
[14:17] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: I could do with a gyro
[14:17] <jcoxon> often customs are expensive
[14:17] <jatkins> ok
[14:17] <jcoxon> though they sometimes send it 'under the radar'
[14:17] <jatkins> lol
[14:17] <jcoxon> though i might get some arduino wees
[14:18] <jatkins> www.moderndevice.com do a cheap clone
[14:18] <jatkins> rbbb
[14:18] <jatkins> BBB is basically a diecimila clone
[14:18] <jatkins> RBBB is cut-down diecimila (much smaller)
[14:19] <jatkins> http://moderndevice.com/RBBB_revB.shtml
[14:19] <jcoxon> yeah i've seen them
[14:19] <jcoxon> but not as small as Sparkfun's wee
[14:19] <jatkins> oh haven't seen them
[14:20] <jcoxon> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8737
[14:20] <jatkins> thanks
[14:21] <Laurenceb> bah just get a DIP mega168 :-P
[14:22] <jatkins> lol
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[14:22] <jatkins> hi edmoore
[14:23] <jcoxon> edmoore, sparkfun order anytime soon?
[14:23] <edmoore> hi
[14:23] <edmoore> jcoxon: possibly. but nothing really needed right now
[14:23] <edmoore> could buy ahead for badger1.2 though
[14:23] <edmoore> will discuss later, heading into ox now
[14:24] <jcoxon> okay
[14:24] <jcoxon> cya
[14:24] <edmoore> Laurenceb: which bit of the country are you in?
[14:26] <Laurenceb> I'm at home in Derbyshire atm
[14:26] <Laurenceb> you're going to oxford?
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[14:27] <Laurenceb> presumable hes already gone
[14:27] <jatkins> lol
[14:28] <jatkins> has anyone tried to do live video on a HAB?
[14:30] <jatkins> I guess not :)
[14:30] <jatkins> I might have a go
[14:30] <jatkins> 320x240, 15 fps
[14:30] <jatkins> highly compressed, so not too good quality
[14:31] <jatkins> but nonetheless it would be pretty cool
[14:31] <jatkins> I think I'd need ~1 mbps downlink
[14:31] <jatkins> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/communication:licence_exempt
[14:32] <jatkins> I think you can do that at 2.4 GHz
[14:32] <jatkins> not sure about 10mW though
[14:32] <jatkins> jcoxon: do you think it's possible to get 1 mbps @ 2.4 GHz, 10 mw from 30 km alt.
[14:32] <jatkins> ?
[14:33] <jcoxon> doubt it
[14:33] <jcoxon> you'd need a dish i reckon
[14:33] <jatkins> ok
[14:34] <jatkins> 2.4 GHz is 802.11x freq. isn't it?
[14:34] <jatkins> (obviously that's microwave and this is radio)
[14:34] <jcoxon> yeah its a 802 freq
[14:34] <jcoxon> but i seem to remeber rocketboy doing some calcs
[14:34] <jatkins> ok
[14:34] <jcoxon> it might be possible - my radio knowledge isn't good enough
[14:34] <jatkins> ok
[14:35] <jatkins> I guess it depends on how far downrange it is at altitude
[14:35] <jatkins> does 10 mW limit the maximum baud rate?
[14:39] <jcoxon> it will eventually yeah
[14:39] <jcoxon> but i think you are going about this the wrong way
[14:39] <jcoxon> there are lots of simpler, slower methods perhaps
[14:40] <jatkins> ok
[14:40] <jatkins> i.e. do downlink at less than 1 Mbps?
[14:40] <jcoxon> sort of
[14:40] <jatkins> ok
[14:42] <soneil> jatkins: you might wanna look into slow-scan TV. it's mostly used by amateur radio, but it'll work in a *lot* less bandwidth than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow-scan_television
[14:42] <jatkins> thanks
[14:42] <jatkins> just having a look
[14:49] <soneil> doesn't look like the easiest thing to implement, and I've no idea what the licensing conditions are, but it does seem to match the constraints you have to work in a lot closer
[14:51] <jatkins> yeah
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> jatkins: you'd need a _large_ dish
[14:53] <jatkins> yeah
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> jatkins: assuming reasonable stuff - omni on the balloon, a dish measuring in tens of m.
[14:53] <jatkins> Rx dish measuring 10s of m
[14:53] <jatkins> ?
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:53] <jatkins> that's good :)
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> Got a contact at Jodrell Bank?
[14:54] <jatkins> lol
[14:54] <jatkins> or the deep space network
[14:54] <jatkins> it's not really deep space
[14:54] <jatkins> but still
[14:54] <jatkins> :D
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> Also - 30km altitude != 30km range.
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> Unless you're chasing it
[14:55] <jatkins> well yeah
[14:55] <jatkins> ~50 km downrange I guess
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[15:12] <SpeedEvil> A 1.8m dish - relatively inexpensive on ebay provides a gain of around a thousand compared to an omni antenna.
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> This'll give you - replacing an omni on one end of an omni-omni link - some 30 times (sqrt(1000)) the range.
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> According to http://huizen.deds.nl/~pa0hoo/helix_wifi/linkbudgetcalc/wlan_budgetcalc.html and http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/wireless/ps6442/ps4555/ps5818/product_data_sheet09186a00801ebc29.html assuming 200mW transmit power and 1mbps, it seems that a 100km link may be barely possible.
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> on a 1.8m dish
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> 2.4m dishes are available - with a free spanish holiday.
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-4m-Prime-Focus-Satellite-Dish_W0QQitemZ170244225733QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170244225733&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
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[15:46] <jatkins> hi jcoxon
[15:46] <jatkins> not working
[15:46] <jatkins> it's reading 0.5 V on data
[15:46] <jatkins> I've given it +5v power
[15:46] <jatkins> which is what it takes
[15:47] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[15:48] <jcoxon> what gps module is it?
[15:48] <jatkins> umm..
[15:48] <jatkins> 2 mins
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[15:49] <jatkins> mc- gave it to me
[15:50] <jcoxon> does it say anything on it?
[15:51] <jatkins> oh found it
[15:51] <jatkins> http://www.orcam.eu/GPS30FSiRFstarIIIbasedOEMGPSreceiver.htm
[15:51] <jatkins> the pic is much larger than it actually is
[15:52] <jatkins> it says 18 km is max. operating altitude but he says it should work above
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[15:52] <jcoxon> hmmmm it'll work up to 24km
[15:52] <jatkins> oh
[15:52] <jatkins> ok
[15:52] <jatkins> just seen
[15:52] <jcoxon> but lets just getting working
[15:52] <jatkins> 3.6 V
[15:52] <jatkins> yeah
[15:52] <jcoxon> nah 5v will be fine
[15:53] <jatkins> ok
[15:53] <jatkins> well
[15:53] <jcoxon> how have you wired it up
[15:53] <jatkins> when I plugged it into the arduino
[15:53] <jatkins> vcc and gnd
[15:53] <jatkins> the arduino is being disconnected from my pc
[15:53] <jatkins> not literally
[15:53] <jatkins> you know winxp makes that sound when something is disconnected
[15:53] <jatkins> it's doing that whenever I plug the gps in
[15:54] <jatkins> I don't know if that means I'm taking too much power from it
[15:54] <jatkins> as by using vcc it's basically parasite power
[15:54] <jcoxon> okay
[15:54] <jcoxon> careful
[15:54] <jatkins> there's a 3.3 v next to the vcc
[15:55] <gordonjcp> jatkins: it's quite possible - the arduino is fairly heavy and the port can only supply 500mA
[15:55] <jatkins> ok
[15:55] <jatkins> thanks
[15:55] <jatkins> I could power it from a pp3
[15:56] <jcoxon> urgh this gps works at 1.8v
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> jatkins: oops - finger trouble with the above calcs. a 2.4m dish is marginal on both 802.11a and b, with 200mW transmit power.
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> at 50km
[15:56] <jatkins> ok
[15:56] <jatkins> thanks
[15:57] <jcoxon> jatkins, also
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> You can connect it to another USB port too.
[15:57] <jcoxon> you need to pull pin 8 to ground
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> For more power.
[15:57] <jatkins> I've done that
[15:57] <jatkins> I think it's pin 8
[15:57] <jatkins> ..
[15:58] <jatkins> SpeedEvil: I can use another usb for power only
[15:58] <jatkins> ?
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> jatkins: yes
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> jatkins: just chop open a cable, and use the red wire for +5V.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> Not the green wire, or it will explode.
[15:58] <jatkins> ok
[15:58] <jatkins> lol
[15:58] <jcoxon> so you've connected 5v to pin 1, gnd to pin 2, gnd to pin8 and pin 6
[15:58] <jatkins> I'll be careful
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> In practice, you can pull 5V from this at up to 500mA without issue, if it's a powered hub, or a motherboard port.
[15:59] <jatkins> mc- had already soldered the chip
[15:59] <jatkins> ok
[15:59] <jatkins> Current
[15:59] <jatkins>
[15:59] <jatkins>
[15:59] <jatkins> 3.3 - 5.5 V DC, 3.6 V DC nominal
[15:59] <jatkins> < 50 mA, acquiring @ 25 °C
[15:59] <jcoxon> well when powered on you should be able to read 1.8v on pin 5
[15:59] <jatkins> < 34 mA, tracking @ 25 °C
[15:59] <jatkins> < 22 µA, "Hibernate" mode
[15:59] <jatkins> ok
[16:00] <jcoxon> but interfacing this gps with an arduino is going to be annoying
[16:00] <jatkins> ok
[16:00] <jcoxon> as teh arduino runs at 5v and this runs at 1.8v
[16:00] <jcoxon> which is a big difference
[16:01] <jatkins> I guess I need to make a voltage divider?
[16:01] <jatkins> and use vcc to increase the voltage to ttl level
[16:02] <jcoxon> hmmmm a transistor based system might be better
[16:04] <jatkins> ok
[16:04] <jatkins> so it's outputting at 1.8V
[16:04] <jatkins> and the arduino takes 3.3V input?
[16:04] <jcoxon> no teh arduino actually wants 5v
[16:04] <jatkins> oh ok
[16:04] <jcoxon> but you can get away with 3.3v
[16:05] <jatkins> ok
[16:05] <jatkins> so basically I want to double the input voltage?
[16:05] <jatkins> 1.8*2=3.6
[16:05] <jatkins> so that within 3.3 - 5V
[16:05] <jatkins> should that work?
[16:06] <jatkins> that's within*
[16:07] <jcoxon> pretty much
[16:07] <jatkins> ok
[16:07] <jcoxon> but
[16:07] <jcoxon> how do you plan on doing this
[16:07] <jcoxon> ?
[16:08] <jatkins> I could use a voltage divider on 5v vcc
[16:09] <jcoxon> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/tutorial_info.php?tutorials_id=65
[16:10] <jatkins> awesome
[16:10] <jatkins> thanks
[16:13] <jatkins> I guess a mosfet would be the easiest
[16:18] <jatkins> erh...
[16:18] <jatkins> trying to do private chat
[16:18] <jatkins> oh well doesn't matter
[16:19] <jatkins> I think I'm gonna stop getting the gps to work at the moment
[16:19] <jatkins> and go off and fully design the whole payload
[16:19] <jatkins> by that I mean so I've done a proper schematic for the electronics
[16:19] <jatkins> so when I come to make it it should be relatively easy
[16:20] <jatkins> basically I need a smaller soldering iron and some resistors and stuff
[16:20] <jatkins> and more wire
[16:20] <jatkins> the iron I have at the moment
[16:20] <jatkins> is way too thick for soldering pcbs
[16:20] <jatkins> it's nearly a centimetre across
[16:21] <jatkins> and if I end up messing up the soldering (crossing wires over etc.) that won't be good
[16:21] <jatkins> plus mc- has an entire pcb on the back of the gps
[16:22] <jatkins> when I could solder directly to the pins of the chip instead
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[16:24] <jatkins> bbl
[16:24] <jatkins> thanks jcoxon and SpeedEvil
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[20:09] <SpeedEvil> While looking for sensible stuff, /me finds http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Water4Gas-Electrolyzer-HHO-Generator-Hydrogen-Gas-Saver_W0QQitemZ300243141921QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300243141921&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318 and sighs.
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[20:19] <SpeedEvil> jatkins: got a 'good' soldering iron and am liking it.
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> Quotes - as it's chinese and very, very cheap for the features.
[20:19] <jatkins> cool
[20:20] <jatkins> what's the tip size?
[20:20] <jatkins> diameter
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> 0.1mm cone to wide flat bits.
[20:20] <jatkins> wow
[20:20] <jatkins> mine's a lot bigger
[20:20] <jatkins> where did you get it from
[20:20] <jatkins> ?
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> ebay!
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kada-852D-Rework-Soldering-Station-HOT-AIR-IRON-2in1_W0QQitemZ260267893281QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260267893281&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
[20:21] <jatkins> lol
[20:21] <jatkins> good place for HAB sutff
[20:21] <jatkins> stuff*
[20:21] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, nice, that's pretty cheap
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> I got more soldering iron bits with it though.
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> I've only got about 3 hours on it so far, but it's worked fine.
[20:22] <jatkins> cool
[20:22] <jatkins> how long is the cone
[20:23] <jatkins> the 0.1mm bit
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> about 30 degrees out to 8mm
[20:23] <jatkins> ok
[20:23] <jatkins> what's the soldering station for?
[20:24] <natrium42> it's nice to solder tiny packages with
[20:24] <natrium42> or desolder smt stuff
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Soldering.
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> You basically can't solder QFP or BGA without hot-air.
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> And the packages tend to react poorly to uncontrolled soldering iron temps.
[20:25] <jatkins> ok
[20:26] <jatkins> as they're so small?
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[20:29] <[1]jatkins> sorry ... LAN disconnected
[20:30] <[1]jatkins> jcoxon: realized why I was causing problems with the USB connection when dogging down the 5V Vcc earlier:
[20:30] <[1]jatkins> it's not Vcc :(
[20:30] <[1]jatkins> I just assumed it was
[20:31] <[1]jatkins> it's the regulated 5V supply from the USB used to power the arduino
[20:31] <[1]jatkins> http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDiecimila
[20:31] <[1]jatkins> "5V. The regulated power supply used to power the microcontroller and other components on the board. This can come either from VIN via an on-board regulator, or be supplied by USB or another regulated 5V supply."
[20:31] <[1]jatkins> so I was stealing 3.6V from the arduino and it couldn't operate because of it
[20:31] <[1]jatkins> not clever of me
[20:32] <[1]jatkins> but the 3V3 pin is just spare power not needed by the ftdi chip
[20:32] <[1]jatkins> "3V3. A 3.3 volt supply generated by the on-board FTDI chip. Maximum current draw is 50 mA. "
[20:34] <[1]jatkins> oh well, lesson learned :)
[20:36] <[1]jatkins> bbl
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[22:07] <kamaji> halo again
[22:07] <Laurenceb> hi all
[22:07] <Laurenceb> finally managed to get some work done in the parafoil
[22:08] <Laurenceb> the radio is mostly assembled
[22:08] <jcoxon> good work
[22:08] <Laurenceb> :P
[22:09] <Laurenceb> was that bootup screen really that cringeworthy ?
[22:11] <jcoxon> hehe, perhaps a little
[22:11] <Laurenceb> I got the impression it had become legendary :-D
[22:11] <jcoxon> it has
[22:17] <Laurenceb> arg firefox is using 1GB of meme
[22:17] <Laurenceb> no woned my machine is slow
[22:17] <Laurenceb> *wonder
[22:23] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, your laptop always has memory issues
[22:24] <Laurenceb> hehe I knowe only too well
[22:24] <Laurenceb> it needs a RAM upgrade
[22:25] <jcoxon> really?
[22:25] <jcoxon> how much ram do you have?
[22:25] <Laurenceb> 512MB
[22:26] <jcoxon> fair enough
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[22:28] Action: SpeedEvil ponders electrolysis.
[22:28] <Laurenceb> I just put some new photos up on the wiki
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> I make it 26Ah = 1 mole of H1.
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> So 52Ah/mole of H2.
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> Say 120Ah/mole, with some inefficiency.
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> That's 9720Ah/launch - or about 15Kwh.
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> Prolly a bit much for portable launches, not insane if you can get to a building with power.
[22:32] <Laurenceb> I tried making hydrogen with a pc supply
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> electrodes?
[22:33] <Laurenceb> kitchen knives :D
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[22:35] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:imgp0108.jpg thats with the radio board attatched - it still needs to uC soldering on
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> np: 2 unlimited - No Limit (reach for the sky).
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> any result with electrolysis?
[22:38] <Laurenceb> I got enough hyrogen to give some good flames on top of the electrolyte
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> I can't seem to find decent figures on teh intarwebs.
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Gets confused by the nutters that think they can make their cars go better with a few bubbles.
[22:42] <Laurenceb> hehe
[22:42] <gordonjcp> SpeedEvil: but it's hydrogen and oxygen!
[22:42] <Laurenceb> I think i used NaOH
[22:43] <Laurenceb> as the electrolute... or whatever its called
[22:43] <Laurenceb> stuff you dissolve to increase the number density of ions :P
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ti-shop.com/acatalog/1mm_thick_x_200mm_x_200mm_Platinised_Ti_anode___electrode.html Couple of those, and you could have a launches worth of H2/day.
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> Of course, that'd only pay off after 30 launches or so.
[22:49] <natrium42> nice :)
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/msg/011ae16d16f3b39f?hl=en
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> Alternatives.
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> Eeek!
[22:59] <Laurenceb> hehe
[22:59] <Laurenceb> I've tried that reaction
[23:00] <Laurenceb> its quite dangerous, highly exothermic and very temperature sensitive
[23:00] <Laurenceb> it can go out of control and give a small explosion
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> The only way would be to monitor and drip the aluminium in bit by bit.
[23:01] <Laurenceb> I tried a 2L coke bottle with a flare on the side
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> Or manage the explosion.
[23:01] <Laurenceb> makes a good bomb
[23:02] <Laurenceb> if you do it right you can ignite the aluminium
[23:02] <Laurenceb> I made a complete mess of my garden after a few attempts
[23:03] <Laurenceb> yeah after having a bit of fun with it I tried the drip technique, but it ends up evaporating loads of water, so you need a seperate condenser
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> Of course - or cool the generator.
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[23:04] Action: SpeedEvil has a 10000l pond.
[23:04] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if the fish would mind.
[23:05] <Laurenceb> haha
[23:06] <Laurenceb> my IED attempt sprayed NaOH all over my shed and ate half the paint off
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> IPSD
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> (Paint Stripper)
[23:06] <Laurenceb> lol
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> I like the thought of electrolysis - but I'm not sure you can get stainless that'll last long enough.
[23:11] <kamaji> Don't you need to pressurise the H2 as well?
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> kamaji: nope.
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> kamaji: well - trivially.
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> kamaji: I was figuring storing in a thick balloon of some form.
[23:12] <kamaji> oh I guess the balloon would explode too easily with high pressures
[23:13] <kamaji> hmm
[23:14] <kamaji> And then squeeze it out into the weather balloon?
[23:14] <kamaji> or was that a joke :P
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> I was thinking some sort of thicker balloon, squozzed out through a hose into the weather balloon.
[23:16] <kamaji> so you'd have to remove all the air from the balloon, then somehow pipe it in :\
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.qsinano.com/order.php
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> Hmm
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> http://www.qsinano.com/pdf/QSI-Nano%20NiFe%20Electrode%20Product%20Profile%2021%20May%202008.pdf - electrodes
[23:18] <kamaji> How much is helium at the mo, anyway?
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> IIRC 30 quid a balloon.
[23:19] <kamaji> hm
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> You seem to pay 60-90 for that online though.
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> (delivered cylider)
[23:19] <kamaji> Aren't you getting BOC to give you free stuff?
[23:19] Action: SpeedEvil isn't.
[23:20] <kamaji> oh
[23:20] <kamaji> just the cuspaceflight guys?
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> And /me would want free Lox.
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[23:20] <kamaji> Lox?
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> liquid oxygen
[23:21] <kamaji> Building a rocket?
[23:22] <kamaji> also: d'you know of any GPS/SMS modules that will text the GPS coordinates to a number?
[23:23] <natrium42> GM862-GPS can do that
[23:23] <natrium42> it runs python interpreter, so you can make it do anything
[23:23] <kamaji> oh, cheers
[23:23] <natrium42> np
[23:23] <natrium42> unfortunately it's GPS cuts out above 18km
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> kamaji: I want to try.
[23:23] <kamaji> yeah, I'm thinking I shall go with the cheap route and just try and get some pictures first
[23:24] <kamaji> SpeedEvil: I always wanted to try that, let me know how you get on :D
[23:24] <Laurenceb> the lassen iq seems to be good for altitude
[23:24] <jcoxon> or a ublox gps
[23:24] <Laurenceb> as does the sirf2
[23:25] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:25] <Laurenceb> lassen iq and sirf have different dynamics filters, which is very useful on a UAV
[23:25] <kamaji> I'm just looking to find the thing when it hits the ground, really.
[23:25] <Laurenceb> s/sirf/ublox
[23:25] <Laurenceb> sirf doesnt seem to be as good in that respect
[23:25] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a really low drag dart dropped from a balloon.
[23:26] Action: SpeedEvil wonders what the minimum size of a ramjet is.
[23:26] <Laurenceb> hehe
[23:27] <Laurenceb> I was filing down the SMA socket for the radio earlier and it seems to be made of solid gold
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Doubtfull.
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> gold plated goldy stuff prolly
[23:27] <kamaji> SpeedEvil: you're reading my mind :|
[23:27] <Laurenceb> cant see any colour change
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> NOOO! You shouldn't do that to a llama!
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: brass can be quite bright
[23:27] <kamaji> That's a camel
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: handy - that above PDF - pushing their new shiny (well - black) electrodes implies operating conditions for stainless steel.
[23:28] <Laurenceb> I'll have to wait and see if it tarnishes
[23:28] <kamaji> argh, has anyone bought one of those GM862s? how much was it?
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: and doesn't say that SS dissolves.
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> kamaji: IIRD $200 or so.
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> IIRC
[23:29] <kamaji> ouch
[23:29] <kamaji> it better not drop into the sea ;_;
[23:30] <natrium42> hehe
[23:30] <natrium42> you can also wire up to cellphone buttons a la Laurence
[23:30] <Laurenceb> oi
[23:30] <natrium42> and use a micro and a cheap gps
[23:30] <Laurenceb> I use the data connector
[23:30] <natrium42> or that :P
[23:30] <natrium42> bah
[23:30] <natrium42> fine :P
[23:31] <Laurenceb> I'm not a noob who tried to hack the buttons
[23:31] <natrium42> didn't somebody do that?
[23:31] <Laurenceb> yes, on hackaday
[23:31] <natrium42> oh
[23:31] <natrium42> sorry for the confusion
[23:31] <Laurenceb> that was pretty funny
[23:31] <jcoxon> poor Laurenceb has been abused today
[23:31] <kamaji> heheh
[23:31] <natrium42> "today"?
[23:31] <Laurenceb> I'm ok
[23:31] <Laurenceb> its not getting me down
[23:32] <natrium42> Laurence is cool
[23:32] <kamaji> anyhoo i'm off to bed
[23:32] <kamaji> I have to wake up tomorrow ;_;
[23:32] <natrium42> later
[23:32] <Laurenceb> cya
[23:32] <kamaji> night
[23:32] <kamaji> thanks for tips!
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[23:32] <Laurenceb> that article on hackaday was pretty funny, first comment was, "see that socket, its a data connector, use it"
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6707 + talking GPS = job done.
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11314 is prolly too easy.
[23:35] <Laurenceb> problem with something like that is you cant add sensors/cutdowns ect
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> Support "geo-fencing" -- when person leaves preset geological area SMS will automatically be sent to designated receivers
[23:35] <Laurenceb> and theres no 434MHz
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> would almost work for recovery.
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> Trye.
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> If it supported alt <1000m - which it prolly doesn't.
[23:37] <Laurenceb> well GSM dies at 1000 to 2000m
[23:37] Action: Laurenceb contemptates relevance to 911 conspiracy theories
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> CDMA
[23:38] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> maybe differs
[23:38] <Laurenceb> xactly
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13439
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> haha
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> check the first splash screen.
[23:41] <Laurenceb> http://www.hackaday.com/2008/07/26/honeybike-bicycle-thief-honeypot/
[23:42] <Laurenceb> they stole my idea :(
[23:44] <icez> lol
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> 'Oh dear - my ride information system Li-Po cells located just under the seat appeared to have burst into fire.'. 'How bad did you say his burns are?' 'Oh what a pity'.
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12892
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> Almost useful.
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> (low-end video cam onto SD)
[23:52] <Laurenceb> 9min=22MB ?
[23:52] <Laurenceb> I'm not sure I believe that, but still you could store a lot on a 2GB card
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> It's 320*240 (that one)
[23:58] <Laurenceb> hmm well it should be a lot of recording time them
[23:58] <Laurenceb> *then
[23:58] <Laurenceb> might be worth sticking one on the parafoil/rogallo
[00:00] --- Mon Jul 28 2008