highaltitude.log.20080726

[00:03] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) left irc:
[00:04] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) joined #highaltitude.
[00:05] <soneil> it wasn't kidding about the battery then :/
[00:09] <Laurenceb> back
[00:13] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:imgp0065.jpg?cache=cache
[00:14] <Laurenceb> thats the flight computer for the parafoil project - needs a couple more connectors
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> What altitude is that at?
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> I can see odd canal-like formations covering the entire landscape.
[00:15] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:15] <Laurenceb> its east anglia
[00:15] <Laurenceb> your looking at NOVA6 ?
[00:15] <Laurenceb> is NOVA7 up yet?
[00:15] <SpeedEvil> No - the wood.
[00:15] <SpeedEvil> My first reaction as the picture loaded.
[00:16] <Laurenceb> haha
[00:16] <SpeedEvil> I assume that's a micro of some sort? What sensors does it have?
[00:16] <Laurenceb> the sockets for an atmega168
[00:16] <Laurenceb> no sensors as such, just an mlx90609 gyro
[00:17] Action: SpeedEvil ponders what that is if not a sensor.
[00:17] <Laurenceb> its just dirt simple
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> Which axis?
[00:17] <Laurenceb> yaw
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> So you can do auto fly straight?
[00:18] <Laurenceb> its kalman filtered with the gps heading
[00:18] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:18] <Laurenceb> well towards waypoints
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> what's the all-up weight?
[00:19] <Laurenceb> well its not built yet, so not 100% certain
[00:19] <Laurenceb> theres a lassen iq and a radio modem to go on, then 4 AA lithium photos
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> How you plannin gon launching?
[00:20] <Laurenceb> I may stick it on a balsa framed rogallo wing instead of a parafoil
[00:20] <Laurenceb> 200 gram balloon
[00:20] <Laurenceb> bottom view - http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:imgp0066.jpg?cache=cache
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> Ah stripboard.
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> And SMD.
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> BastardHybridsRus.
[00:22] <Laurenceb> hehe
[00:22] <Laurenceb> that smd battery holder was a bad idea
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> As long as it works.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> gps backup?
[00:23] <Laurenceb> I've got some CR1225 holders for it now- less likely to short out if it gets bashed in a crash
[00:23] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> logging at all?
[00:23] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[00:23] <Laurenceb> nope
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> I need to get my CPU board up and running.
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> Bout a quarter of that size, 32 bit 8MB, microSD
[00:24] <Laurenceb> may add a seperate SD card logger if I can be bothered, but 300 baud is enough for fairly good diagnostics
[00:24] <Laurenceb> neat
[00:25] <Laurenceb> the "cutdown" is just to the left of the battery holder - smd logic level mosfet
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> Also looks like the veroboard could have done with some cleaning.
[00:26] <Laurenceb> the oxidation is mostly since I soldered it
[00:26] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how you'd determine when a balloon is about to burst.
[00:26] <Laurenceb> it was cleaned with wet and dry before
[00:26] <SpeedEvil> It'd be interesting to log pressure in the balloon as it burst due to high altitude.
[00:27] <Laurenceb> that would be a step function ?
[00:27] <Laurenceb> :-P
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> No.
[00:27] Action: jcoxon is searching for ribbon connectors
[00:27] <Laurenceb> you mean before burst?
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming that before the burst, you'd get a rise - or a slowing lowering - as the balloon constrained the gas
[00:27] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: toby.co.uk
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> Probably easier to measure it mechanically somehow.
[00:29] <Laurenceb> I just hope I didnt overheat that mosfet :-/
[00:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080725/quantas_landing_080725/20080725?hub=TopStories
[00:30] <SpeedEvil> Looks almost like the rivet line came free, and fluttered to failure propagating forwards.
[00:31] natrium42 (n=alexei@auth3-261.uwaterloo.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[00:31] <Laurenceb> hi natrium42
[00:31] <Laurenceb> so there are no NOVA7 photos up?
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> There was one linked to earlier
[00:32] <Laurenceb> got the link?
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> Seems I wasn't logging, and it's scrolled.
[00:33] <natrium42> hey
[00:33] <Laurenceb> I'll look on the zeusbot log
[00:33] <natrium42> Laurenceb, http://www.pericynthion.org/nova7dawn.jpg
[00:34] <Laurenceb> nice
[00:34] <Laurenceb> pity it looks like very bad camera blur :-/
[00:35] <Laurenceb> maybe a UV filter would be good
[00:37] <natrium42> blur? it looks fine to me
[00:38] <Laurenceb> I said looks like :-P
[00:38] <Laurenceb> photo of my renovation project - http://imagebin.ca/view/DXrLe5.html
[00:39] <Laurenceb> just been fitting the stairs today :-D
[00:40] <akawaka> natrium42: cool! any more?
[00:41] <Laurenceb> it'd be interesting to see how it changes over time
[00:41] <natrium42> akawaka, that's all hallam posted
[00:47] rouslan_ (n=rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[00:47] rouslan (n=rouslan@pool-70-109-137-206.cncdnh.east.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[00:49] <Laurenceb> is 8p for a crimp a ripoff?
[00:50] <SpeedEvil> Almost certainly.
[00:50] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-145-229-223.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[00:50] <SpeedEvil> Crimp tool is important too.
[00:50] rouslan_ (n=rouslan@pool-70-109-137-206.cncdnh.east.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[00:51] <Laurenceb> I just solder them
[00:51] <Laurenceb> where can I find some cheap ones?
[00:52] <Laurenceb> I was looking at http://www.toby.co.uk/content/catalogue/products.asp?series=1800%2DT
[00:54] rouslan (n=rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
[00:54] rouslan_ (n=rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[00:54] rouslan_ (n=rouslan@pool-70-109-137-206.cncdnh.east.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[00:55] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b173.adsl.enternet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[01:07] <Laurenceb> bah just ordered 100 of them - I'm too lazy to find anything cheaper
[01:18] <SpeedEvil> Crimp tool is important too.
[01:23] <natrium42> UR A CRIMP TOOL
[01:29] <akawaka> everyone calm down!!
[01:29] <Laurenceb> hehe
[01:29] <Laurenceb> I've soldered loads of crimps, seems to work fine if you're careful not to let the solder run down the crimp
[01:30] <natrium42> hey, just throwing around internet memes
[01:32] <Laurenceb> gtg cya all
[01:32] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@host86-140-21-48.range86-140.btcentralplus.com) left irc:
[01:52] rouslan (n=rouslan@pool-70-109-137-206.cncdnh.east.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[01:53] rouslan_ (n=rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[03:08] natrium42 (n=alexei@auth3-261.uwaterloo.ca) left irc:
[03:28] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[05:02] rouslan (n=rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan) left irc: No route to host
[05:11] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:20] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) left irc:
[06:11] soneil (i=52960664@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) joined #highaltitude.
[07:48] edmoore (n=edmoore@66.122-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) joined #highaltitude.
[07:53] icez (n=icez@ip68-98-34-247.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: "Lost terminal"
[08:06] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc:
[08:23] <edmoore> good morning everyone
[08:28] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[08:50] jiffe99 (n=fxmulder@67.158.3.217) joined #highaltitude.
[09:18] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:21] <edmoore> hi natrium42
[09:21] <edmoore> just had the chance to look over what happened here yesterday
[09:21] <edmoore> the tracker is fantastic
[09:21] <natrium42> thx :)
[09:22] <edmoore> can I show you smthing
[09:22] <edmoore> right now there is an amsat conference happening http://www.batc.tv/ch_live.php?ch=3&id=9
[09:22] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@host86-133-70-114.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:23] <Laurenceb> hi all
[09:23] <edmoore> for our next launch (of any note anyway) we'd like to do something like that, but sub the video feed for a webcam of launch
[09:23] <Laurenceb> edmoore: well done
[09:23] <edmoore> and have the embdedded irc
[09:23] <natrium42> you mean chat?
[09:23] <edmoore> and then have basically your tracker
[09:23] <edmoore> well, embedded the irc into the web page I guess
[09:24] <Laurenceb> are the NOVA7 photos up yet?
[09:24] <natrium42> their's seems to be AJAX
[09:24] <natrium42> i had started adding a chat box to the tracker months ago
[09:24] <edmoore> but also your tracker, which is the most important bit. we also want to have broadband mobile for the car so we can give you 1hz updates of chase car position
[09:24] <edmoore> it was 'so' exciting and close yesterday
[09:24] <edmoore> converging down on it
[09:25] <natrium42> yeah
[09:25] <edmoore> which is why we didn't text james more with our pos
[09:25] <edmoore> but if that was all automatic, it would be much better, obviously
[09:25] <natrium42> direct updates would be awesome
[09:26] <natrium42> btw, if you would rather host the tracker yourself, i can give you all the source files
[09:26] <edmoore> well we'll try and do that for next time. it's very cool what you and james have got sone in 2 days, but we have a month now at least till next flight
[09:26] <natrium42> and that would make it also easier for you to modify
[09:26] <edmoore> totally your call.
[09:26] <natrium42> i don't mind, it's not much code at all
[09:27] <natrium42> hope you have good server :D
[09:27] <edmoore> I guess it might help to have CUSF, tho there could be a UKHAS one for all flights, or something
[09:27] <edmoore> haha, it's ok :)
[09:27] <natrium42> should i just put the code up onto the wiki?
[09:27] <natrium42> we really need a CVS
[09:27] <natrium42> or SVN
[09:27] <edmoore> yeah
[09:27] <natrium42> somebody should set that up :P
[09:27] <edmoore> we have a load of disparate svns
[09:27] <edmoore> for badger board, rocket drawings, etc
[09:28] <natrium42> cool
[09:28] <natrium42> edmoore, i have been thinking of adding live pictures too
[09:28] <natrium42> once exams finish, going to add that
[09:29] <natrium42> going to be a time-line scoll kinda thing
[09:29] <natrium42> with pics
[09:30] <natrium42> my next launch would downlink pics directly to the site
[09:31] <edmoore> natrium42: that would be awesome - exactly what we want
[09:31] <edmoore> so for example yesterday
[09:31] <edmoore> at 4am
[09:31] <edmoore> we were in our car
[09:31] <edmoore> we had the cool lpatop and radio setup
[09:31] <edmoore> it would have been awesome to do a live webcast from the car
[09:31] <edmoore> just a 2 minute thing.
[09:31] <edmoore> showing the chase set-up
[09:32] <natrium42> yah, would be definitely great as well
[09:32] <natrium42> flash broadcasting is quite easy to setup
[09:32] <edmoore> ok cool
[09:32] <natrium42> i did it for my basement bot
[09:33] <natrium42> ran for 6 months :)
[09:33] <edmoore> :D
[09:33] <edmoore> but we'd want to share any of our code out, so there could be an arguement for a central live flight web thing
[09:33] <edmoore> that we can all use
[09:33] <edmoore> sign up to have a given flight covered by it
[09:34] <natrium42> exactly, that's what i wanted to work towards :D
[09:34] <edmoore> and then if there are any new balloon groups around wanting to emulate and use it, they easily can
[09:34] <natrium42> this hobby should be easier to follow
[09:34] <edmoore> yeah, it was truly great - I'm really annoyed we couldn't really see the web aspect yesterday
[09:35] <edmoore> but mobile broadband should fix that!
[09:35] <natrium42> is it getting cheaper in your country?
[09:35] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-145-229-223.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:36] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[09:36] <edmoore> good to see you
[09:36] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[09:36] <jcoxon> all recovered?
[09:36] <edmoore> I just slept 13 hours
[09:37] <natrium42> wb jcoxon
[09:37] <edmoore> THANK YOU
[09:37] <edmoore> natrium42 and jcoxon
[09:37] <edmoore> it rocked, from what I can see
[09:37] <jcoxon> hehe, it was fun
[09:37] <jcoxon> it worked pretty well this end
[09:38] <natrium42> i missed most of the beginning :S
[09:38] <natrium42> was watching batman...
[09:38] <jcoxon> i'm going to see that today hopefully
[09:38] <natrium42> edmoore, did you post more pics anywhere yet?
[09:39] <edmoore> natrium42: unfortunately, one cam failed at 4km and the other at about 7
[09:39] <edmoore> both before dawn
[09:39] <edmoore> exactly the same hardware that worked so well the previosu day
[09:39] <natrium42> yah, sorry to hear that
[09:39] <edmoore> very odd, will begin investigation very thoroughly soon
[09:40] <edmoore> but the premiers did seem to struggle slightly with what they did get
[09:40] <edmoore> leading james to say that the canon's running custom firmware would be good
[09:41] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b173.adsl.enternet.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[09:41] <natrium42> canons are great
[09:43] Jos- (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) joined #highaltitude.
[09:44] <natrium42> it's 5 am already :S
[09:44] <natrium42> g'nite all
[09:44] <edmoore> cya natrium42
[09:44] <edmoore> thanks again
[09:47] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Halt! Hammerzeit!=-"
[09:47] <soneil> ed, congrats on 33k tho. twice in one week isn't all bad :)
[09:48] <edmoore> soneil: yeah, we were so excited in the car!
[09:48] <edmoore> i nearly crashed
[09:48] <edmoore> it was a slow ascent again as we actualy ran out of helium
[09:49] <soneil> yeah I was watching. it was slow enough that I had to leave for work half way thru
[09:49] <Laurenceb> where was the landing?
[09:49] <edmoore> can't remember the exactly co-ordinates. Wait for fnoble to come online as he has the logds
[09:50] <edmoore> i have the landing site in my satnav, but that's in my car
[09:54] <edmoore> Laurenceb: sorry I didn't ignore you! thank you
[09:54] <edmoore> we will see if anything is of any use in the photos
[09:54] <edmoore> but they were pretty much a write-off. but all that means in we need to try again soon!
[09:54] <Laurenceb> :-/
[09:54] <Laurenceb> cant wait for that :-P
[09:55] <soneil> I threw some ideas at fnoble on the cameras .. curious to find out what actually happened in the end
[09:56] <Laurenceb> I've been thinking about taking a video of the sun rising, if you used a helium valve to decrease the ascent rate, then added a small motor for yaw control of the balloon
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> You don't need to yaw control the balloon.
[09:56] <Laurenceb> you'd need to think about the prop
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> Just the payload.
[09:57] <Laurenceb> hmm
[09:57] <Laurenceb> the valve is fixed to the balloon
[09:57] <gordonjcp> hmm, could you do that, bleed off helium rather than cut the balloon away?
[09:57] <Laurenceb> so youd need slip rings == a pain
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> gordonjcp: no reason why not
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> gordonjcp: I was speculating earlier on pressure sensing of the balloon to pickup just before burst.
[09:59] <Laurenceb> in our experience its difficult to predict
[09:59] <gordonjcp> SpeedEvil: how would you be able to tell it was about to burst?
[09:59] <SpeedEvil> gordonjcp: the balloon bursts.
[09:59] <Laurenceb> balloons just arent manufactured to very high tolerances
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> gordonjcp: therefore there must be an increase in pressure inside the balloon compared to outside.
[10:00] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: there is not
[10:00] <edmoore> they just yield
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> gordonjcp: this should be pick-uppable.
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> Oh - they yield and expand usefully before burst?
[10:00] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: try it with a party balloon
[10:01] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: yep, as far as you can tell with instrumentation
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming they just inflated staying at teh same surface area till they hit a sphereish and then burst.
[10:01] <Laurenceb> you will feel the increase in differential pressure as it deflates
[10:01] <edmoore> because of tolerances, you only need a tiny bit at yeild whilst the rest is still happily elastic
[10:01] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: no no they exapnd
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: Oh well.
[10:01] <edmoore> They are the size of a small house by the time they pop!
[10:02] <edmoore> chaps, I will put up really the only photo of anything that we have
[10:02] <edmoore> plus a very dark photo of the ground launch
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: I thought they were simply very loose, with little gas in them, not actually changing in surface area.
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> Well, there go my plans for world domination.
[10:03] <Laurenceb> so, I was thinking a valve similar to the the one on the wiki, built into the payload - ie its actually on the bottom of the balloon
[10:03] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: when i get this photo up you can just about make out the faint sillouhette of the balloon against the sky
[10:03] <Laurenceb> then a CF or balsa arm to one side with prop
[10:03] <edmoore> that will show you the diameter at launch
[10:03] <edmoore> it is about 10m dia at burst
[10:04] <Laurenceb> onboard have compass and rate gyro - filter them together with a kalman filter, then use a PID loop to control PWM to the motor through a H bridge
[10:04] <Laurenceb> something like that at least
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> Sounds silly.
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> And hard to control.
[10:05] <Laurenceb> there should be virtually 0 torque on the envelope
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> the balloon is going to be damn hard to twist predictably, and windshear will cause problems.
[10:05] <Laurenceb> so it should be possible to control if you just want to aim at sunrise
[10:06] <soneil> I'd think something closer to a highschool "follow the light" project would be a lot easier than compass, gyro & all that jazz
[10:06] [BI]Jos (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> Or just spin the camera slowly.
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> Or just use 6 cameras :)
[10:06] <Laurenceb> I was aiming for video
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[10:07] <Laurenceb> soneil: but you can pick up gyro and compass modules off sparkfun and devantech
[10:07] [BI]Jos (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:08] <Laurenceb> and the payload would be able to do other cool stuff e.g. panoramas
[10:08] <SpeedEvil> If you add another couple of axes, and a zoom, you could photo targets on the ground.
[10:09] <Laurenceb> windshear would be an issue, but its much less turulent above the tropopause
[10:09] <Laurenceb> *turbulent
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> Take a webcam, and glue half of some binoculars on the front.
[10:09] <Laurenceb> hehe like military bases
[10:09] <Laurenceb> it would be much to wobbly for that
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> A 1000MP panorama would be very cool.
[10:10] <Laurenceb> I made some panoramas of cambridge
[10:10] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:mihab:mihab3_glider_master_unit
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> (1000MP is 'only' 100 or so 10MP images spaced at 6 degrees.
[10:13] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
[10:13] <Laurenceb> have you seen MIR balloons?
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> Attach the payload to the balloon with a 2cm plastic tube (say).
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> rigid.
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> On the end of the tube you put a bearing round it.
[10:14] <Laurenceb> bearings and -50c = :-S
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> You have a little plate - also on a bearing - which is pushed up onto the bottom of the tube to seal it
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> Point.
[10:14] <Laurenceb> http://ballon.cnes.fr:8180/html/mir/mir_gb.htm
[10:14] <edmoore> all http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/images/nova7selected/
[10:15] <edmoore> only 2
[10:15] <edmoore> this is the last pic before the later-dying camera went
[10:15] <edmoore> we will certainly upgrades the cameras for the next attempt
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: I hypothesised earlier - don't know if you were on - that it might simply have been the batteries freezing due to the cold.
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> Though lithium AA cells are good to quite low temperatures, they do begin to deliver dramatically lower power. And digicams use a fair bit of power.
[10:17] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: they've always worked before
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> And it was probably quite cold due to no solar gain
[10:17] <edmoore> without complaint
[10:17] <edmoore> oh it's -50 regardless
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> With 500W/m^2 or so of heating.
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> (above the clouds, averaged in and out of the sun)
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> I make that 2 or 3 watts heating on a 10*5cm camera.
[10:19] jiffe99 (n=fxmulder@67.158.3.217) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[10:20] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: that's true, however we have frequently flow with the cameras hidden inside
[10:20] <edmoore> and not partiucalry insulated
[10:20] <edmoore> but i yes, we will be testing all this thoriouhgly now
[10:20] <Laurenceb> hmm I agree with ed
[10:20] <edmoore> we will begin a series of tests in an environment chanmber
[10:20] <Laurenceb> but premiers can use a lot of power
[10:21] <Laurenceb> they seem to use rather dodgy smps
[10:22] <Laurenceb> when I took a look on a scope it was drawing up to an amp in short bursts
[10:22] <Laurenceb> edmoore: how did you power the cameras?
[10:22] <edmoore> onboard batteries
[10:22] <soneil> I was saying to fnoble, I'd be curious to run them just in the dark, and see what happens. he was saying they take nearly 8 seconds to write to disk, so the longer exposures needed pre-dawn + this 8 second wait would outrun your 10 second timer, filling the buffer
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> Cams inside will not be exposed to the cold of space, but to -50C, which is a fair bit different.
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> IR wise.
[10:23] <edmoore> soneil: yes that is something that we've been thinking about, and a ood point
[10:23] <edmoore> good*
[10:23] <Laurenceb> yeah my premiers have been a bit slow
[10:23] <Laurenceb> they use an ARM9 IIRC
[10:23] <soneil> do they have an led telling you when they're writing to disk ?
[10:23] <edmoore> but whether or not they work, they're not really good enough cameras to deal well with challenging exposure consitions like sunrise
[10:24] <edmoore> so we'll probably ditch them
[10:24] <Laurenceb> so no DSP stuff inside meaning all the jpeg compression takes a while
[10:24] <Laurenceb> edmoore: ground launch looks cool, very arty
[10:24] <edmoore> we try :)
[10:24] <Laurenceb> stick it in the tate modern
[10:25] <edmoore> can you see the balloon?
[10:25] <edmoore> i'm holding onto it
[10:25] <Laurenceb> oh yeah :P
[10:26] Jos- (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:27] <Laurenceb> http://ballon.cnes.fr:8180/html/mir/resmi_gb.htm
[10:28] <soneil> I've been thinking about feeding off the disk-write led on a camera, to reset the timer. so you have a relatively short timer, say 2-3 seconds, but it's constantly reset until the previous shot is done writing
[10:28] <Laurenceb> section 3.2 is interesting
[10:28] <Laurenceb> nice plan
[10:28] <Laurenceb> soneil: I turned off the camera between photos on one flight
[10:29] <Laurenceb> so it was something like 10 seconds for a photos, off for 20
[10:29] <Laurenceb> ie 2 pics a minute
[10:29] <soneil> the downside is that they won't be so regular, which'd be a bit ugly if you wanted to munge them all together into a timelapse
[10:31] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b173.adsl.enternet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[10:32] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b173.adsl.enternet.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[10:34] <SpeedEvil> Also - consider if you are optically ever going to actually use 3 or 5MP.
[10:34] <SpeedEvil> Drop it down a resolution, and it'll take shots lots faster.
[10:35] <SpeedEvil> In that there seemed to be almost no information in 99.9% of those shots at very high frequency other than the ones under 5Km or so
[10:36] <Laurenceb> gtg, I'll be back this evening
[10:36] <SpeedEvil> wave.
[10:44] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: our response to that is to user better cameras
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> Reasonable.
[10:45] <edmoore> We'll get some decent glass next time we do it.
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> I got the impression it was nothing to do with the glass, but the visual environment.
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> In that if it's pointed out all the air is blurring anything lots.
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> Decent glass + -50C sounds like a recipie for delaminated compound lenses.
[10:49] Action: SpeedEvil wanders off to do actual productive stuff that will lead to flying stuff.
[10:55] edmoore_ (n=edmoore@66.122-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:55] edmoore (n=edmoore@66.122-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[10:55] <edmoore_> SpeedEvil: good point, we'll investigate, though have seen slar's taken on balloon flights with success.
[11:00] <edmoore_> right, we'll try and get a kml up and general do some post-flight. It'll probably be a month before next launch. All - thank you very much for bearing with us over the last 2/3 days. We've never done anything this 'interactive' before and it's only because of the efforts of jcoxon and natrium42 that it's happened. We're going to build upon this for the next flight, and would be very interested to hear your suggestions. Certainly we'll
[11:00] <edmoore_> A webcam from launch would be nice too but one step at a time!
[11:00] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[11:01] <edmoore> please email me any suggestions - eam52 at cam dot ac dot uk
[11:04] edmoore_ (n=edmoore@66.122-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:04] edmoore (n=edmoore@66.122-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[11:06] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[11:10] Jos- (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:31] [BI]Jos (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[11:32] fnoble (n=fnoblef@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:32] <fnoble> hello
[11:33] <soneil> morning
[11:49] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b173.adsl.enternet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[11:52] <edmoore> fnoble:
[11:53] <edmoore> hi
[11:53] <edmoore> and ping
[11:53] <fnoble> hi ed
[11:53] <edmoore> how are you?
[11:53] <fnoble> pretty good
[11:53] <fnoble> you?
[11:53] <edmoore> better having slept.
[11:53] <fnoble> cool we got on space fellowship eh?
[11:54] <edmoore> yeah!
[11:54] <edmoore> have you got my 67 emails this morning?
[11:54] <fnoble> yup
[12:06] edmoore_ (n=edmoore@66.122-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:06] edmoore (n=edmoore@66.122-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[12:07] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[12:12] <jnd> edmoore: do you have log with working temp?
[12:13] <edmoore> jnd: sorry to disappoint you - we *will* get it working for the next revision. yesterday was basically identitical to day 1, we just wanted to take advatnage of the great jetstream conditions
[12:14] <jnd> ok
[12:24] <edmoore> we have temp corrected barometer too
[12:24] <edmoore> that will fly
[12:24] <edmoore> and it will all be streamed live and be available in the logs
[13:07] <edmoore> jnd: infact we will name the temperature sensor in your honour :)
[13:08] <fnoble> the broken one or the new one? :)
[13:10] <edmoore> working!
[13:10] <fnoble> lol
[13:11] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@dsl51B6ABE3.pool.t-online.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[13:16] <fnoble> does anyone here know much about gpsd?
[13:19] <jcoxon> fnoble, a bit but i think you've asked me before
[13:20] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[13:30] <fnoble> ive written a script that takes the telem from the rtty decoder and converts it to nmea strings that i want to send to gpsd
[13:31] <fnoble> think it would work to write the nmea into a named pipe and then point gpsd to the pipe as the "gps serial port"
[14:10] <jcoxon> whats the advantage of using gpsd?
[14:13] <jcoxon> ooo wait i get it - then this'll feed into gpsdrive
[14:13] <fnoble> yup :)
[14:14] <jcoxon> yeah use *nix to your advantage and just write the nmea line by line to a file and direct gpsd to treat it like a gps serial port
[14:29] <jcoxon> bbl
[14:29] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-145-229-223.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[14:33] borism (n=boris@195-50-204-124-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[14:37] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@dsl51B6ABE3.pool.t-online.hu) left irc: "Connectshun reset by mah bukkit."
[14:50] <jnd> oh great :)
[15:19] borism (n=boris@195-50-204-169-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[15:40] [BI]Jos (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) joined #highaltitude.
[15:40] rouslan (n=rouslan@pool-70-109-137-206.cncdnh.east.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[15:49] rouslan (n=rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[15:50] rouslan (n=rouslan@pool-70-109-137-206.cncdnh.east.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[15:59] borism_ (n=boris@195-50-204-152-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[16:06] borism (n=boris@195-50-204-169-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[16:07] rouslan_ (n=rouslan@pool-70-109-137-206.cncdnh.east.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:10] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@host86-133-70-114.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[16:11] rouslan (n=rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan) left irc: No route to host
[16:11] Jos- (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[16:12] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-145-229-223.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:26] rouslan_ (n=rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan) left irc: No route to host
[16:37] borism_ (n=boris@195-50-204-152-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Connection timed out
[16:42] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[16:42] <edmoore> and fnoble?
[16:48] fnoble (n=fnoblef@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[16:55] <soneil> this lassen gps, is there any way hook it up thru-the-hole? the only header I see on sparkfun is surface mount, and I've a less-than-stellar record with those
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> soneil: you mean the eval-boarD?
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> Lassen iQ Evaluation Kit - USB
[17:05] <soneil> I was looking to see if I could get away with just the module, without the eval board
[17:05] <soneil> because it doubles the price :/
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> You can just wire wires to that connector.
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> the one sparkfun stock.
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> It won't be very removable.
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> thin enamelled wire will work just fine. Tin it first, hold onto body of connector, wrap wire ends round with tweezers, solder.
[17:16] <soneil> yeah, just thought I'd check to see if there's 'normal' header first
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> It's 1.27mm pitch
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> go to digikey, and you'll find it - though their parametric selector is buggered.
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> where are you?
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> Oh - you're UK aren't you.
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - many people on other channels I'm on are US.
[17:19] <soneil> heh, yeah. I've no problem ordering from the states, but try to get it all at one supplier so fedex only screw me once
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> digikey are wacky.
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> If you're under 50 quid - basically forget it - the fees will add 50-100% to the order.
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> Over 50 quid, it's free shipping.
[17:26] <edmoore> soneil: appologies, I wandered off. SpeedEvil is correct that wiring direct to the header is ok. I've not come across any 1.27mm through hole headers before, though we'd be interested if some are found to help with our balloonsats for schools thing
[17:26] <edmoore> soneil: we frequently manage to duck under customs with sparkfun stuff
[17:26] <edmoore> sometimes though we get hit - it seems a bit arbitrary
[17:28] <soneil> yeah, I just did. I seem to be fine if I pay above-and-beyond for 3 day shipping, and I'm pretty much guaranteed to get caught if I go surface
[17:28] <soneil> so I pay one way or the other, just depends if it's sales tax or fedex tax :)
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> http://uk.farnell.com/865424/connectors/product.us0?sku=molex-90584-1308
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> May work
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> I can't find a decent datasheer for it.
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> On digikey.co.uk - you pay no customs - it's factored in
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> digikey is also handy in tha tthey have 'web orders.
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> you can easily edit someones order if tyhey give you teh web ID and access ID
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> Oh - Oh.
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> They seem to have reasonablised their shipping.
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> In that it seems to be 12 quid for one 10nf cap.
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> Oops.
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> Dorry.
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> 'vat will be due at time of delivery'.
[17:35] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] Jos- (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:05] [BI]Jos (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[18:16] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[18:18] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@dsl51B6ABE3.pool.t-online.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:23] soneil (i=52960664@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[18:28] [BI]Jos (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:29] Jos- (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> What is the weight of a typical balloon as used in the last few days launches?
[18:31] jiffe98 (n=jiffe@67.158.3.217) left irc: "WeeChat 0.2.5"
[18:35] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[18:36] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: 1.2 Kg in both cases
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> And the payload is of the same order?
[18:38] <edmoore> 1.2kg, in fact
[18:57] borism (n=boris@195-50-205-34-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[19:03] [BI]Jos (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[19:16] edmoore (n=edmoore@66.122-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) left irc:
[19:16] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) joined #highaltitude.
[19:18] icez (n=icez@ip68-98-34-247.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:51] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[19:51] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) joined #highaltitude.
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1137.html (very high altitude)
[19:58] jwn (n=jwn@p5B3E8C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:58] <icez> :p
[20:00] icez (n=icez@ip68-98-34-247.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[20:04] icez (n=icez@ip68-98-34-247.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:11] <natrium42> hi
[20:11] <icez> hi
[21:13] <natrium42> hahaha --> http://science.slashdot.org/science/08/07/26/1710254.shtml
[21:15] <natrium42> since when does the earth belong to some organization and not to humans?
[21:15] <natrium42> and 120 days is ridiculous and unacceptable, what are they going to do in that time?
[21:16] <icez> according to the UN any celestial bodies (and as far as I know the Earth is a celestial body) can't be claimed by any individual or group or government :P
[21:17] <natrium42> yeah
[21:17] <natrium42> hehe, some comments are funny
[21:17] <natrium42> "it's not ridiculous at all.
[21:17] <natrium42> when you think about it, taking a photo of the earth from space isn't (conceptually) any different from walking into a store a stealing a CD."
[21:17] <icez> nice X-Prize though :]
[21:18] <icez> it's as much our planet as it is NOAA's :P
[21:18] <natrium42> exactly
[21:18] <icez> technically, WE belong to the Earth ;)
[21:20] Action: natrium42 votes to send all bureaucrats into the sun :P
[21:26] <icez> :P
[21:26] <icez> really crazy prize
[21:27] <icez> not the easiest thing ever if you ask me
[21:30] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> And the moon treaty/outer space treaty was a fucking stupid bit of law.
[21:56] <Hiena> Yeah, kind of mess up with the property things.
[22:12] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Halt! Hammerzeit!=-"
[22:27] RocketBoy (n=grunge@217.47.75.27) joined #highaltitude.
[22:41] RocketBoy (n=grunge@217.47.75.27) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[22:45] soneil (n=soneil@pdpc/supporter/active/soneil) left irc:
[22:51] [BI]Jos (n=jos@Lithium.Flauw.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:03] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@host86-133-70-114.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:03] <Laurenceb> yo
[23:07] jwn (n=jwn@p5B3E8C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[23:08] <natrium42> hello lb
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> yoyo
[23:18] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, planning any launches yourself?
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> Not balloons.
[23:19] <natrium42> rockets?
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> UAV in the near term.
[23:19] <natrium42> cool, got a page?
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> I'm hoping for ~2-4Km in 3-4 mins.
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/test.png - a bad render of it overhead.
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> altitude that is.
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> And not really - as I hope to sell theml
[23:21] <natrium42> neato
[23:21] <natrium42> my university worked on similar UAV
[23:21] <natrium42> with ducted counter-rotating fan
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> 1Kg liftoff weight.
[23:22] <natrium42> my concern is always that it's less energy efficient than a heli
[23:23] <Laurenceb> IMU onboard?
[23:23] <Laurenceb> what we need is some sort of vacuum energy thruster.....
[23:24] <Laurenceb> unfortunately I'm just not good enough at physics to invent it
[23:24] <natrium42> haha, for attitude control?
[23:24] <Laurenceb> single stage to orbit ect
[23:25] <Laurenceb> grr its got to be possible
[23:25] <natrium42> well you could just
[23:25] <natrium42> 1. Found PayPal
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> natrium42: Only true if you hover as part of the mission.
[23:25] <Laurenceb> theres casimir effect and Hawking radiation...
[23:25] <natrium42> 2. ???
[23:25] <natrium42> 3. Build rockets!
[23:26] <Laurenceb> lol
[23:26] <Laurenceb> http://jnaudin.free.fr/
[23:27] <Laurenceb> that guys slightly mad but he makes some cool stuff
[23:27] <natrium42> those use ionization
[23:27] <natrium42> so you still need air
[23:27] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@dsl51B6ABE3.pool.t-online.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[23:28] <Laurenceb> a point he doesnt seem to grasp
[23:29] <Laurenceb> lol http://jnaudin.free.fr/uav/hid/index.htm
[23:29] <Laurenceb> love the top photo
[23:30] <natrium42> hehe, i want to have a helmet like that
[23:31] <Laurenceb> the "cold fusion" thermos flask reactor is class
[23:34] <jnd> I don't like people who use comic sans for scientific projects
[23:34] <icez> rofl
[23:35] Action: SpeedEvil tries to resist feature creep.
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> Yes, by extending the thrust vector vanes down, and making them the right shape I could add a limited capability to walk on flat surfaces.
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> But...
[23:36] <jcoxon> http://rescommunis.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/noaa-open-letter-to-google-lunar-x-prize-participants/
[23:36] <natrium42> DO IT!
[23:36] <natrium42> :D
[23:36] <icez> it's in comic sans?:/
[23:36] <icez> yeah we heard jcoxon :/
[23:36] <jnd> that font should be banned
[23:36] <icez> so stupid :P
[23:36] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:36] <icez> I see it in serif because I don't have comic on linux ;)
[23:36] <jcoxon> obviously we all read /.
[23:37] <Laurenceb> brb
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> stupid now.
[23:37] <icez> well I only heard about it because of natrium42 :P
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> At the time the law was introduced - it's unlikely to have occurred to anyone.
[23:37] <jnd> unfortunately I installed ms fonts because one game needs it... :/
[23:37] <icez> it's a stupid law, seriously
[23:38] <icez> it's like saying the NOAA owns the planet
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> that private space might occur.
[23:38] <jcoxon> does it apply to ballons ?
[23:38] <jcoxon> balloons*
[23:39] <icez> well I don't know how they'd enforce that :/
[23:39] <icez> "you're under arrest for taking a picture of your home planet"?:P
[23:39] <natrium42> it's only for USA anyway :P
[23:39] <jcoxon> of course
[23:39] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:39] <natrium42> we are in free countries, right
[23:39] <natrium42> :D
[23:39] <jcoxon> haha
[23:39] <icez> D:
[23:39] <jcoxon> freedom
[23:39] <jcoxon> just went to see batman
[23:40] <jnd> free countries also have stupid laws but not that much
[23:41] <natrium42> true
[23:41] <jcoxon> my favourite story of the week was a old women who was told she couldn't take a picture of an empty paddling pool as she might be a paedophile
[23:41] <natrium42> canada has hate-speech laws
[23:41] <natrium42> for instance
[23:42] <natrium42> jcoxon, lol
[23:43] <icez> it does say "from space"
[23:43] <icez> so if I don't reach 100km it's fine ;)
[23:43] <jnd> one good law in EU is minimum 2 year warranty for consumer goods
[23:45] <natrium42> doesn't that make prices go up? :P
[23:59] miron (n=miron@ecnaab32.uwaterloo.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[23:59] <miron> NOOO
[00:00] --- Sun Jul 27 2008