highaltitude.log.20080715

[00:12] <Laurenceb> hello
[00:12] <Laurenceb> just got back from work :-S
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[04:40] <jiffe89> anyone used an rfPIC for comms?
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[08:52] <edmoore> hi Laurenceb : what were you doing at work so late!?
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[09:50] <edmoore> hi rob anderson
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[10:15] <gerard_mp> hello
[10:15] <Laurenceb> hi folks
[10:16] <gerard_mp> hi Laurence
[10:16] <gerard_mp> I have one question
[10:16] <Laurenceb> k
[10:17] <gerard_mp> it is about balloon inflation
[10:17] <gerard_mp> I've calculated using the sheet in the wiki
[10:17] <gerard_mp> the payload is about 3kg
[10:18] <gerard_mp> the sheet gives you diam. at launch, right?
[10:20] <edmoore> hi gerard_mp
[10:20] <edmoore> long time now speak - how are things?
[10:20] <edmoore> gerard_mp: I beleive so, yes - what is the diameter that you are getting/
[10:20] <Laurenceb> yes, you can use that to work out how much helium you want to use
[10:20] <edmoore> if it's ~1-2m, then it will be at launch.
[10:21] <Laurenceb> ie 3/4*pi*r^3
[10:22] <gerard_mp> edmoore: fine, launch will be in about 2 weeks, look at flickr www.flickr.com/meteotek08
[10:23] <Laurenceb> good luck
[10:23] <gerard_mp> yes, this way you know the volume of helium, how I could know how much helium is inside= measuring the balloon diam :S?
[10:23] <Laurenceb> use the change in tank pressure
[10:24] <edmoore> that's a bit crude
[10:24] <gerard_mp> hmm how?
[10:24] <edmoore> gerard_mp: what we do is find a mass of 3kg
[10:24] <edmoore> put it in a bag
[10:25] <edmoore> attach it to the fill tube for the balloon
[10:25] <edmoore> and when we have neautral bouyancy (i.e. it just begins to float) with the bag attached, we know we have the lift that we want
[10:25] <edmoore> so what I am saying is, we fill the balloon until we reach a certain amount of lift, rather than by meauring the diameter or the volume or the pressure directly
[10:25] <Laurenceb> sure
[10:25] <gerard_mp> this way you can't give an exact free lift, but is it fine anyway?
[10:26] <edmoore> normally good enough - we subtact the weight of the fill tube from the weight we put in the bag
[10:26] <edmoore> so everything hanging off the bottom of the balloon = 3kg
[10:26] <Laurenceb> yes - we usually use a bottle of water
[10:26] <Laurenceb> then put marks on the side for 200g, 400grams ect
[10:27] <Laurenceb> so you can fill it to get the required mass
[10:27] <edmoore> yes, a bottle of water is a good way of doing it
[10:28] <edmoore> gerard_mp: the quality of your payload is really very high.
[10:28] <Laurenceb> ignore my previous answer about tank pressure, I got the wrong end of the stick :P
[10:28] <edmoore> Congratulations.
[10:28] <gerard_mp> thanks :S
[10:28] <gerard_mp> :)
[10:29] <gerard_mp> it weighs so much, but we don't know how to reduce the weight
[10:29] <edmoore> I like the way you have encases the camera in foam
[10:29] <Laurenceb> our payloads are usually a bit more hacked together
[10:29] <edmoore> we are doing that with out electronics for the rocket
[10:29] <gerard_mp> we use lightweight materials
[10:29] <Laurenceb> we usually use blue foam a lot
[10:29] <edmoore> Is this a school project?
[10:30] <gerard_mp> yes, it's very useful
[10:30] <Laurenceb> oh well I've got to head out, cya all this evening hopefully
[10:30] <gerard_mp> well... school and personal at the same time
[10:30] <edmoore> it is a fantastic one. I wish we had done this.
[10:30] <edmoore> Although - we've been doing it a lot since :)
[10:30] <gerard_mp> now we hope that it works hehe
[10:31] <edmoore> well, if I can give any advice - it is so beautiful and you don't want to loose it - put a completely seperate second transmitter on, it only needs to be 10mW, that just beeps at 1Hz
[10:31] <edmoore> with its own battery
[10:32] <edmoore> that way if the main battery dies, you can still drive out to where you think it might land and hunt for it with a high gain antenna - you will almost certainly find it if you can pick up on the beeps
[10:33] <gerard_mp> only beeps?
[10:34] <gerard_mp> in fact the radio has its own battery, and it's charged for 3 flights
[10:38] <edmoore> yes - you can make it more complicated if you wish
[10:38] <edmoore> but beeps are sufficient - you just want to know that is is alive somewhere
[10:39] <edmoore> and then you can find it by triangulation
[10:39] <edmoore> this is assuming everything else has failed for some reason - a short, or something. Your payload looks very well engineered, so there is a low risk, but it is also so pretty you'd hate to loose it!
[10:40] <gerard_mp> yes... and the material is so expensive hehe
[10:41] <edmoore> is it kapton space blanket that you have?
[11:06] <gerard_mp> no, just cheap blanket
[11:06] <gerard_mp> that one used in accidents
[11:07] <edmoore> ok
[11:07] <gerard_mp> it's used to make the box nicer, the foam is the main thing
[11:07] <edmoore> well it should help with the radiative emissions too
[11:10] <gerard_mp> our blanket costs about 3¬ hehe
[11:17] <gerard_mp> how many recybers do you use for triangulate the signal?
[11:20] <edmoore> hi gerard_mp: just one, and he's in a car
[11:21] <edmoore> so we will take one bearing, drive a couple of miles, take another, and head to roughly where they cross over
[11:21] <edmoore> and repeated
[11:21] <edmoore> it's not very scientific, but you can home in pretty quickly
[11:21] <gerard_mp> hmm good
[11:22] <gerard_mp> what receiver do u use?
[11:22] <gerard_mp> which
[11:23] <gerard_mp> well I have to go for lunch
[11:23] <gerard_mp> I'll be here working this afetrnoon
[11:23] <gerard_mp> thanks for all your help! jus tkeep an eye on flickr every day hehe ;)
[11:27] <edmoore> I will do!
[11:27] <edmoore> good lucky
[11:27] <edmoore> luck*
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[12:24] <jcoxon> hey edmoore, just popping in
[12:24] <edmoore> ello
[12:25] <edmoore> it's been a busy old morning on irc
[12:25] <edmoore> I tell thee
[12:27] <edmoore> how's it going?
[12:27] <edmoore> sorry pub lucnh
[12:27] <edmoore> bbl
[12:29] <jcoxon> haha
[12:30] <jcoxon> no worries
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[13:29] <edmoore> hi gerard_mp
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[15:58] <gerard_mp> hi
[16:01] <edmoore> hi gerard_mp
[16:01] <edmoore> so when approximately is your launch scheduled?
[16:03] <gerard_mp> in 2 weeks aprox
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[16:03] <gerard_mp> the next week we will be doing the last electronic tests
[16:04] <gerard_mp> and now we are in the work shop preparing the payload
[16:08] <edmoore> awesome
[16:08] <edmoore> I think we are launching this weekend
[16:12] <gerard_mp> do you have photos from the payload
[16:12] <gerard_mp> ??
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[16:32] <edmoore> gerard_mp: sorry I am at work so keep getting distracted :)
[16:32] <edmoore> no, we have not yet built the payload
[16:32] <gerard_mp> ok
[16:32] <edmoore> our current ballooning philosophy is not quite as good as yours
[16:32] <edmoore> we just throw stuff together to test bits for the rocket (which is being well built)
[16:34] <gerard_mp> ok is another kind of philosophy hehe
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[16:37] <edmoore> we started off spending hour and hours doing stuff. But now we just glue stuff to polystyrene and go :)
[16:37] <edmoore> that is for the simple cheap payloads anyway
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[17:01] <jcoxon> hey everyone
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[17:42] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[17:43] <edmoore> hello!
[17:43] <edmoore> how's it going?
[17:43] <jcoxon> not bad thanks
[17:43] <jcoxon> been revising
[17:44] <jcoxon> you? how was the pub lunch
[17:45] <edmoore> delish
[17:45] <edmoore> sent me to sleep tho
[17:45] <edmoore> as always
[17:45] <jcoxon> haha
[17:45] <jcoxon> just reading space review
[17:46] <jcoxon> article on student sats
[17:46] <edmoore> logo.png has no bounding box either
[17:46] <edmoore> it informs me
[17:46] <edmoore> whoops
[17:47] <edmoore> wrong window
[17:47] <edmoore> what does it say?
[17:48] <jcoxon> just that if they aren't careful there aren't going to be any new engineers
[17:48] <jcoxon> student stats are a good way of encouraging people to get involved
[17:49] <jcoxon> sats*
[17:53] <edmoore> indeed
[17:57] <jcoxon> right time to cook supper, bbl
[18:01] <edmoore> cya
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[21:21] <jcoxon> hey everyone
[21:21] <BadWolf> hiya jcoxon
[21:21] <BadWolf> Just sent you an email - its worth a look
[21:22] <jcoxon> nothing yet ;-)
[21:22] <BadWolf> oh yeah its still sending - 3Mbyte attcahment
[21:23] <BadWolf> tis gone
[21:25] <jcoxon> got it
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[21:28] <jcoxon> that parafoil flys really well
[21:28] <BadWolf> cool huh
[21:29] <BadWolf> I was pleased
[21:29] <jcoxon> yeah, i'm really excited now
[21:29] <jcoxon> time to get it in the air
[21:29] <jcoxon> :-D
[21:29] <jcoxon> is there anything you need me to do?
[21:29] <BadWolf> yeah just need to make a bigger launcher
[21:30] <BadWolf> sorry - i didn't mean you to make oen
[21:30] <BadWolf> one
[21:30] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:30] <BadWolf> I'll think about that - but I need some more flights yet
[21:31] <BadWolf> I want to fly it as an RC glider yet
[21:31] <jcoxon> okay
[21:31] Action: jcoxon begins to think more realistically
[21:31] <BadWolf> I may go back to the simple weight shift for control (rather than break line)
[21:32] <jcoxon> oh right
[21:32] <akawaka> whee
[21:32] <jcoxon> hey akawaka
[21:32] <akawaka> i had two sound/video bites during the sony E3 press conference
[21:33] <jcoxon> oh wow
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[21:37] <jcoxon> launch this weekend?
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[21:59] <fnoble> hi
[22:00] <fnoble> quick question, whats the site where you can get jetstream forecasts again?
[22:01] <jcoxon> wunderground
[22:01] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/general:weather
[22:01] <fnoble> i thought so but i cant find the page
[22:01] <BadWolf> http://www.baekdal.com/future/User-Experience/multi-touch-whiteboard/
[22:01] <BadWolf> no not that
[22:01] <BadWolf> http://www.wunderground.com/modelmaps/maps.asp?model=GFS&domain=EU
[22:01] <BadWolf> that
[22:02] <BadWolf> (although the 1st is way cool - especially the 3rd video)
[22:04] <fnoble> BadWolf: that link doesnt seem to be working for me
[22:04] Nick change: BadWolf -> RocketBoyV1
[22:06] <fnoble> were pretty close to being ready for a luanch
[22:06] <fnoble> *launch
[22:06] <fnoble> everything is running but the telit module
[22:06] <RocketBoyV1> it works for me??
[22:09] <akawaka> i don't know how good that headtracking wiimote stuff would look in real life
[22:10] <akawaka> it looks great with a single lens, but with two eyes it might look very weird
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[22:12] <fnoble_> ok, i think it was just the dodgy connection here
[22:13] <fnoble_> how do i get the wind data on it? atm i only see precipitation and sea level pressure
[22:13] <RocketBoyV1> oh - you have to add in the 200mb
[22:14] <RocketBoyV1> (never worked out how you get it to default to that)
[22:15] <RocketBoyV1> This is a nice on-line predictor http://weather.uwyo.edu/polar/balloon_traj.html
[22:16] <fnoble_> i thought the univ wyoming thingy only did the past
[22:16] <jcoxon> nah it can forecast
[22:17] <fnoble_> oh cool, ill take a look
[22:20] <jcoxon> fnoble_, whats up with the telit?
[22:20] <fnoble_> its hard to tell
[22:21] <fnoble_> its not responding sanely to the power on button
[22:21] <fnoble_> but it may be that we killed it trying various things
[22:21] <jcoxon> some times it boots script other times AT?
[22:21] <fnoble_> so im waiting of getting a dev board for it to try it out in a known good configuration
[22:22] <jcoxon> as in is dtr floating
[22:22] <fnoble_> ive not even been able to talk to it
[22:22] <jcoxon> oh
[22:23] <jcoxon> guess its hard to test on badger directly
[22:23] <fnoble_> yeah, its really frustrating
[22:24] <jcoxon> welcome to the telit module
[22:25] <jcoxon> i found most of my issues were a floating DTR pin
[22:25] <fnoble_> hmm.....
[22:25] <jcoxon> the status pin is helpful to decide if the module has booted and what its up to
[22:25] <fnoble_> yeah the status pin was doing wierd things
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[22:26] <jcoxon> it flashes accordingly
[22:26] <fnoble_> like staying high irrespective of what we do to the on/off pin
[22:27] <jcoxon> oh
[22:27] <fnoble_> or just floating at half the supply voltage
[22:27] <jcoxon> what module is this? gm862 or gm862-gps?
[22:27] <fnoble_> the gps
[22:27] <jcoxon> good good, better hardware and firmware
[22:27] <fnoble_> i think its probably dead tbh :(
[22:28] <jcoxon> oh, you've got spares?
[22:28] <fnoble_> i have another, but its not the gps one
[22:28] <jcoxon> should be too much of a problem
[22:28] <fnoble_> yeah, think we will be sticking to AT mode for a bit
[22:30] <jcoxon> i've got some gm862s sitting around
[22:30] <jcoxon> if needed
[22:30] <jcoxon> i found you needed, on/off to gnd, dtr, tx, rx
[22:30] <fnoble_> ok thanks for the offer, will see how it goes with the dev board
[22:30] <fnoble_> which seems to be lost in the post :(
[22:30] <jcoxon> oh no
[22:31] <jcoxon> well i've still got a dev board (as in a breakout board wired up correctly sitting at home
[22:31] <fnoble_> are you using it? - it might be really helpful to borrow for a short while
[22:32] <jcoxon> i'm not using it (yuk telits - i've got a siemens mc75)
[22:32] <jcoxon> but i won't be home till friday and i'm not free this weekend to bring it up
[22:32] <jcoxon> (got exams a week today
[22:32] <jcoxon> )
[22:33] <fnoble_> ah hows it all going?
[22:34] <jcoxon> urgh, its really boring and i've got a ridiculous amount of work to do
[22:34] <fnoble_> :(
[22:34] <jcoxon> oh well, will just scrap through :-)
[22:35] <fnoble_> nearly there though
[22:35] <jcoxon> well, got 2 more exams at the beginning of august - then freedom
[22:36] <jcoxon> lots of ballooning to do :-)
[22:37] <fnoble_> yup should be good
[22:37] <fnoble_> as for the telit, the weather looks like it will be rubbish for ages and ive ordered a second board from sf
[22:38] <fnoble_> so should e here in under a week
[22:38] <jcoxon> okay - well you prob won't need my board
[22:38] <fnoble_> yeah, thaks for the offer though
[22:39] <fnoble_> give us lots of time for testing testing testing :)
[22:40] <jcoxon> so no launch this weekend? as i might be able to come the weekend afterwards
[22:42] <fnoble_> looks like we would end up in the sea
[22:43] <fnoble_> unless we just go for a little hop to test the systems integrations stuff
[22:43] <fnoble_> like set the cutdown for 10km
[22:43] <jcoxon> oh dear, my general criteria is that if its forecast to go in the sea its best not to risk it
[22:43] <jcoxon> can always fly another day
[22:44] <fnoble_> yeah, especially since this is the only badger for now
[22:44] <fnoble_> ok, have to go now, may be back in a while
[22:45] <jcoxon> cy
[22:45] <jcoxon> a
[22:45] <fnoble_> bye
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[00:00] --- Wed Jul 16 2008