highaltitude.log.20080707

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[09:12] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[09:12] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[09:12] <jcoxon> just popping in for 10 mins
[09:12] <edmoore> woah, dizzy
[09:12] <jcoxon> wow #space
[09:12] <edmoore> uhuh]
[09:13] <jcoxon> you're on all my channels now
[09:13] <jcoxon> actually you aren't on #gumstix
[09:13] <jcoxon> hows the weekend been?
[09:13] <edmoore> not bad, was in cam yesterday
[09:13] <edmoore> Playing with badger
[09:13] <jcoxon> cool cool
[09:13] <edmoore> that sounds wrong
[09:14] <edmoore> and in ox for saturday
[09:14] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:14] <edmoore> you?
[09:14] <jcoxon> yeah went to a wedding on sat
[09:14] <edmoore> lucky we didn't call it the beaver board
[09:14] <edmoore> ooooh
[09:14] <jcoxon> indeed
[09:14] <jcoxon> made some progress yesterday:
[09:14] <jcoxon> got packet downlink actually working
[09:14] <edmoore> oh rocking
[09:15] <jcoxon> managed to deocode the packets nicely
[09:15] <edmoore> awesome awesome
[09:15] <jcoxon> though only using a direct cable
[09:15] <edmoore> do you have alaunch date in mind?
[09:15] <jcoxon> hmmmmm after my exams
[09:15] <jcoxon> so august
[09:15] <jcoxon> to decode the packets i used truetty on my mac :-p
[09:17] <jcoxon> it runs using wine, i was rather impressed
[09:19] <jcoxon> launch date wise - perhaps 9/10 august
[09:26] <jcoxon> right time to do some work
[09:26] <jcoxon> bbl
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[11:35] <Laurenceb> hi all
[12:28] <edmoore> hi
[13:05] <Laurenceb> how's work?
[13:09] <edmoore> haha
[13:12] <Laurenceb> hehe
[13:13] <Laurenceb> I'm trying to design a kitchen with ikea home planner
[13:13] <Laurenceb> it would help if it didnt hang ever 2 minutes
[13:16] <edmoore> sod that
[13:17] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:18] <Laurenceb> magnet do free designs, but ikea have a better range of base units
[13:18] <Laurenceb> however you have to design it yourself with their glitchy software
[13:30] <Laurenceb> it would appear they do not understand quaternions
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[13:36] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[13:36] <edmoore> Laurenceb: many people do not understand quaternions
[13:37] <Laurenceb> me included :P
[13:37] <edmoore> me too!
[13:37] <edmoore> I just use them without trying to visualise
[13:37] <Laurenceb> but the 3D gui goes mad after a bit of manipulation
[13:37] <jcoxon> afternoon edmoore and Laurenceb
[13:37] <Laurenceb> hello jcoxon
[13:37] <edmoore> Actually I almost reached enlightenemnt when I thought of it as walking around with some 3-diemsional orthogonal basis on the surface of a 4d hypersphere
[13:38] <Laurenceb> hehe
[13:38] <Laurenceb> I like to think about axis angle rotations
[13:38] <edmoore> in the same way someone standing on a sphere, if it's big enough, can walk around in a 2d orthogonal set as far as they're concerned
[13:38] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:39] <Laurenceb> but axis angle notation and quaternions representing rotation in 3D are the same thing
[13:39] <edmoore> and -q = q in the same way that if you wonder around far enough on the sphere you end up back where you begin
[13:40] <edmoore> but... I have some code and it seems to work and now they shall return to black box status
[13:40] <jcoxon> i have no idea what you two are talking about
[13:41] Action: jcoxon is happy about not understanding
[13:42] <edmoore> i don't either... brains can't really deal with 4d
[13:42] <edmoore> anyhoo, how's it going?
[13:43] <jcoxon> am chilling in hte library on my mobile broadbadn reading about anxiety disorders
[13:45] <jcoxon> and obviously can't type
[13:45] <jcoxon> the* broadband*
[13:46] <edmoore> reading about anxiety disorders, thinking about balloons?
[13:46] <jcoxon> but of course
[13:47] <jcoxon> i'm now onto obsessions and implusions
[13:48] <jcoxon> balloons are an implusion (thoughts that are not displeasurable) rather then an obsession (unwelcome recurrent ideas or thoughts)
[13:48] <jcoxon> james' thought for the day
[13:48] <jcoxon> :-D
[13:50] <jcoxon> oooo i've got a balloon question, in regards to radio range, running at 300bps will be more advantageous then 1200bps?
[13:52] <edmoore> yes
[13:53] <edmoore> about twice as advatnageous, as far as range is concerned
[13:54] <jcoxon> okeydokey - better get 300bps working
[14:00] <Laurenceb> gtg cya all
[14:01] <edmoore> cya
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[14:04] <jcoxon> urgh this library makes me want to sleep
[14:04] <edmoore> a good quality in a library
[14:04] <edmoore> coffeeeeee
[14:05] <jcoxon> so when are you guys going to launch badger?
[14:12] <jcoxon> edmoore, have you seen this: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/burt_rutan_sees_the_future_of_space.html
[14:13] <edmoore> aye for sure!
[14:14] <jcoxon> inspiring stuff
[14:16] <edmoore> indeed
[14:16] <edmoore> I love ted talks
[14:16] <edmoore> as it happens, watched about 4 today
[14:39] <jcoxon> done
[14:40] <jcoxon> wow cameras these days are cheap
[14:41] <jcoxon> was just looking on amazon electronics
[14:45] <edmoore> yeah?
[14:45] <edmoore> one in mind?
[14:47] <jcoxon> sadly not, am broke
[14:47] <jcoxon> got an email from amazon and followed the link
[14:47] <edmoore> annoying that innit
[14:47] <edmoore> lol
[14:47] <jcoxon> but perhaps something to remember
[14:49] Action: jcoxon really wants a launch
[14:56] <edmoore> jcoxon: so... there was talk of 'soon' from ferg
[14:56] <jcoxon> oh wow :-)
[14:56] <edmoore> if we can do a radio this week, we'll be good
[14:56] <jcoxon> well i'm down in canterbury for the next 2 weekends
[14:58] <edmoore> it could well be in 2 weeks
[14:58] <jcoxon> but you don't need me :-)
[14:58] <edmoore> we really want to do an advanced away team
[14:58] <edmoore> so plonk them at the predicted landing site
[14:58] <edmoore> Rob A has just come up with a lovely predictor in C++
[14:58] <edmoore> using GFS
[14:59] <edmoore> but we'll be able to input a lot more
[14:59] <edmoore> i'll get him to stick it on a web server
[15:00] <jcoxon> oh sounds fun
[15:01] <jcoxon> well i can do the 26/27 july as its the weekend after my first set of exams
[15:01] <edmoore> will need two radios though
[15:01] <jcoxon> and then i'm free from the 6th august
[15:01] <edmoore> I think that's when our sponsor *couldn't* do, and he wanted to tag along. we'll see
[15:01] <jcoxon> ooo did you read about truetty and my mac?
[15:04] <jcoxon> now means that using OS X is the ultimate balloon tracking system
[15:04] <jcoxon> none of this rubbish windows
[15:04] <edmoore> ?
[15:04] <edmoore> tell
[15:05] <jcoxon> pictures tell a thousand...
[15:05] <jcoxon> one sec
[15:10] <jcoxon> http://flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/2645465891/
[15:10] <jcoxon> using macports to install Wine I was able to run truetty, it runs really well only using about 20% of cpu
[15:11] <jcoxon> also i was able to compile fldigi which is more native and works well
[15:11] <jcoxon> stuff cocoamodem
[15:22] <edmoore> wow
[15:22] <edmoore> no that's cool
[15:22] <edmoore> can you get wine to constantly reset the date?
[15:22] <edmoore> sorry, you might have to include my name more often so it pings me
[15:22] <edmoore> using spaces means I get distratced from other windows easily
[15:22] <edmoore> jcoxon
[15:23] <jcoxon> yup
[15:23] <jcoxon> sorry was going through slides from a lecture
[15:24] <jcoxon> hmmmm reseting the data so that the copy doesn't expire?
[15:24] <edmoore> yeah
[15:25] <jcoxon> not sure
[15:25] <jcoxon> probably but it would require serious hacking
[15:25] <jcoxon> i also don't think truetty works on a date
[15:27] <jcoxon> edmoore, edmoore edmoore
[15:28] <edmoore> yes
[15:28] <edmoore> i thought it gave up after 30 days?
[15:28] <edmoore> i want some thunder
[15:29] <edmoore> there are some hideously mencing clouds rolling in
[15:29] <jcoxon> it doesn't say anything about days
[15:29] <jcoxon> i'll check the help file bit
[15:31] <edmoore> yay thunder!
[15:35] <jcoxon> hmmm can't get the user agreement up
[15:36] <jcoxon> oh wait its 30 days
[15:36] <jcoxon> but it wouldn't be difficult to reinstall it after 30 days
[15:40] <jcoxon> edmoore, do you find spaces useful?
[15:41] <jcoxon> i quite enjoy clutter and spend my time just using keyboard shortcuts to move around
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[15:44] <edmoore_> wow
[15:45] <edmoore_> so we just had an epic 2 minute storm
[15:45] <edmoore_> power cut, massive lightening, and hail I've never seen before
[15:45] <edmoore_> about 4 inches of ice dropped on the ground over about 3 minutes
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[15:46] <edmoore_> I really want to release a balloon into one of them
[15:46] <jcoxon> crazy
[15:46] <edmoore_> the pictures from above would be epic
[15:46] <jcoxon> seriously thrown around on the way up
[15:46] <jcoxon> but certainly could be done
[15:47] <jcoxon> with some clever forecasting, an afternoon launch to take advantage of the heat convection
[15:47] <edmoore_> yeah
[15:47] <edmoore_> it could deal with being thrown around
[15:47] <edmoore_> once it's up and through it needs to be able to take pictures
[15:48] <jcoxon> this is pretty much what we did in Africa
[15:48] <jcoxon> chasing storms
[15:49] <jcoxon> some launches were designed to go before or after massive multiple cell monsoon storms
[15:50] <edmoore_> so heaters on the cmaera lense so the water evaps rather than freezes
[15:50] <edmoore_> and seal the hole lot fairly well in a bix
[15:50] <edmoore_> and hope it doesn't get struck by lightening
[15:50] <jcoxon> even if we weren't launching being geeks they used to compete to guess the height of the storm clouds and then call up the radar to find out
[15:50] <jcoxon> best to fill the balloon indoors if possible, some sort of hanger
[15:51] <edmoore_> yeah, makes sense
[15:51] <edmoore_> then just take it out and let go
[15:52] <jcoxon> i think a partially disposable payload
[15:52] <jcoxon> crap gps, radio, camera
[15:53] <edmoore_> my thoughts entirely
[15:53] <jcoxon> even dump the gps directly into the radio and have the camera on a 555
[15:53] <jcoxon> or just a pic or avr running the show
[15:53] <jcoxon> nothing fancy, not cutdown etc
[15:54] <edmoore_> well.... the whole point of the mission would reply on getting it back, if you think about it
[15:54] <edmoore_> so you may aswell commit
[15:54] <edmoore_> I'd throw a badger on it
[15:55] <edmoore_> and seal everything well
[15:56] <jcoxon> hmmmmm
[15:56] <jcoxon> badger costs about ?100 (including the telit)
[15:56] <jcoxon> thats a lot to lose
[15:56] <jcoxon> while say we could lose 2 ?50 payloads
[15:57] <jcoxon> but then i'm not taking launch costs into account
[15:57] <edmoore_> got random character encoding there
[15:57] <edmoore_> didn't pick up the prices you gave
[15:57] <jcoxon> of they were pound signs
[15:57] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[15:57] <jcoxon> 100 and 50
[15:57] <edmoore> about £100 - that's ok really
[15:57] <edmoore> worth the risk
[15:57] <edmoore> the plan is to get the thing back, afterall
[15:57] <jcoxon> true
[15:58] <jcoxon> though the mission is slightly flawed
[15:58] <edmoore> And I'd want gsm in the mix, as following a 10mW radio in a thunderstorm could be tricky
[15:58] <jcoxon> there aren't that many thunderstorms in hte UK :-p
[15:58] <edmoore> ha, well we'll just have to wait for the right time, that's all!
[15:59] <jcoxon> and give ATC notice?
[16:00] <jcoxon> how about we take some cool pictures now and then get sponsered to go somewhere where there are storms every day :-p
[16:00] <edmoore> if a plane is flying through that thing, a balloon is the least of their worries!
[16:01] <jcoxon> i sort of meant the way our permission is set up
[16:03] <edmoore> true
[16:03] <edmoore> yeah, cool photos are definitely on my agenda
[16:03] <edmoore> I just want badger to be reliable and not break and have reliable cutdowns and generally be reliable
[16:03] <edmoore> did I mention reliable?
[16:04] <edmoore> I don't want balloon flights to keep being about testing flight computers. That's getting a bit boring. But then it's always far more difficult to execute properly than it is to say...
[16:04] <jcoxon> yeah you did
[16:04] <jcoxon> tis a dream we all share
[16:04] <edmoore> but yeah, I want to be able to base some flights around photography. Co that rocks
[16:05] <jcoxon> edmoore, we are nearly there
[16:05] <jcoxon> through a bit of trial and error we've worked out most things e.g. what gps modules to use
[16:06] <jcoxon> i'm quite excited abotu sending some pictures down
[16:08] <edmoore> that would be cool
[16:08] <edmoore> but tough
[16:09] <jcoxon> tough as we'd have to keep in contact through out?
[16:15] <edmoore> well photos mean high data rates, that's all
[16:15] <edmoore> and good error rejection
[16:15] <edmoore> and time not spent with flight-crucial telem
[16:15] <jcoxon> true
[16:16] <jcoxon> my plan would be to steal badger
[16:16] <edmoore> if it develops into something reliable...
[16:16] <jcoxon> then fly my gumstix with usb webcam, packet radio
[16:16] <jcoxon> (not the goliath
[16:16] <jcoxon> )
[16:16] <edmoore> we fleshed out the badger software structure yesterday
[16:16] <edmoore> with a view to making it quite easy to develop for
[16:17] <jcoxon> cool
[16:17] <edmoore> we have all the drivers and threads and background processes contributing to a state matrix
[16:17] <edmoore> which will be a global data struct
[16:17] <edmoore> which will have lat long alt temp predicted landing etc
[16:18] <edmoore> 'state' (i.e. ascending, descending)
[16:18] <edmoore> and all that stuff, and then that will be read-only to the flight code
[16:18] <edmoore> which will do whatever is needed like decide whether or not to cutdown
[16:18] <edmoore> or run flight control for parafoils, or whatever
[16:19] <jcoxon> :-) sounds good
[16:19] <edmoore> we've got nice routines to stick things in a text event log along with all the flight data which gets saved there automatically - so you can apprent strings to the data set
[16:20] <edmoore> so I *hope* it should be firly easy to develop for, for a hard-coding embedded system, at least
[16:20] <edmoore> obviously won't be linux
[16:20] <jcoxon> hehe
[16:27] <jcoxon> interesting article
[16:27] <jcoxon> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6299
[16:28] <edmoore> just had a skim read - interesting
[16:29] <edmoore> I wonder if we can harvest stuff
[16:30] <jcoxon> as in?
[16:30] <edmoore> their tech
[16:30] <edmoore> save us writing stuff
[16:30] <edmoore> reliable cheap simple radio comms
[16:31] <jcoxon> thats what i'm doing
[16:31] <jcoxon> i haven't written anything
[16:31] <jcoxon> am using linux, soundmodem, and the ax25-tools
[16:32] <jcoxon> my packet radio actually appears as a network interface
[16:32] <edmoore> oh that's cool
[16:32] <jcoxon> i'm actually ready to add a receiver onto my audio out
[16:32] <jcoxon> then 2 way will be set up and i could telnet or ftp
[16:33] <jcoxon> audio in*
[16:33] <edmoore> oh awesome
[16:33] <edmoore> this sounds v promising
[16:33] <jcoxon> oh yeah definitely
[16:33] <jcoxon> first step is the downlink which is nearly finished
[16:34] <jcoxon> then we add an uplink
[16:34] <jcoxon> then pictures!
[16:39] <edmoore> ????
[16:39] <edmoore> Profit!
[16:39] <jcoxon> yeah yeah yeah
[16:40] <jcoxon> using the gpsstix board rather than the goliath it should be a pretty small set up
[16:40] <jcoxon> and use badger for main tracking
[16:44] <jcoxon> right time to go shopping
[16:44] <jcoxon> cya
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[18:29] <bobx> http://rot26.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1214
[18:30] <bobx> weather balloon launch last week
[18:47] <Hiena> Nice one.
[18:48] <Hiena> Did you hit the 90k?
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[19:34] <bobx> Hiena: 68K
[19:35] <bobx> hmm
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