highaltitude.log.20080704

[00:22] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host81-154-154-203.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[00:27] <Laurenceb> hi guys
[00:31] <akawaka> yo
[00:32] <Laurenceb> hello :P
[00:32] <Laurenceb> whats up?
[00:34] <akawaka> working too much
[00:34] <akawaka> you?
[00:34] <Laurenceb> construction work
[00:35] <Laurenceb> painting skirting all day today, very boring
[00:36] <Laurenceb> however.... I did get my results today
[00:37] <akawaka> oh?
[00:50] <Laurenceb> yeah, got a first
[00:51] <Laurenceb> still can't believe it :P one of the papers was awful
[00:51] <Laurenceb> brb
[00:51] <akawaka> congrats man!
[00:52] <Laurenceb> thanks
[00:57] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[01:01] syntac (n=wade@adsl-68-79-22-191.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) left irc: "leaving"
[01:04] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: ""Don't let worry kill you -- let the church help.""
[01:06] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) left irc: "Leaving"
[02:02] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc:
[02:10] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:05] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc:
[05:57] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[06:51] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[06:54] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[07:05] Kornholijo (i=kornholi@c-f1f472d5.09-99-73746f40.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #highaltitude.
[07:05] <Kornholijo> !!
[07:06] <Kornholijo> Hello everyone :o
[09:06] edmoore (n=edmoore@smtp.vorticity-systems.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:07] <edmoore> morning Laurenceb
[09:07] <edmoore> and all
[09:12] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[09:13] <edmoore> how's it going?
[09:13] <Laurenceb> vorticity-systems?
[09:13] <Laurenceb> very good thanks
[09:13] <edmoore> Laurenceb: work
[09:13] <Laurenceb> cool
[09:13] Action: Laurenceb googles
[09:14] <edmoore> speaking of which, have you ever come across anything on magnus effect at high mach numbers?
[09:14] <Laurenceb> nope
[09:14] <edmoore> Sim time then
[09:14] <Laurenceb> unfortunately all my fluid dynamics is atmosphere related
[09:14] <Laurenceb> virtually
[09:14] <Laurenceb> ie rossby/kelvin waves
[09:15] <Laurenceb> inertia gravity oscillations ect
[09:15] <edmoore> yeah gravity waves were new to me a couple of days ago
[09:15] <edmoore> till I saw a column for them in the mars atmosphere database
[09:15] <edmoore> I'd never thought of that before - very cool
[09:15] <Laurenceb> I was watching some in the sky the other day
[09:16] <Laurenceb> the pic on the front page looks appropriate XD
[09:16] <edmoore> aye
[09:16] <edmoore> that's the current fun
[09:17] <Laurenceb> well I'll shortly be having fun installing skirting boards
[09:17] <edmoore> Matt next to me has got some incfedibly beautiful high fidelity visualisations of the sims of the airbags landing on mars. I really didn't realise quite how good the simming tools available to industry were
[09:18] <Laurenceb> what sort of software do you use?
[09:18] <Laurenceb> written from scratch?
[09:18] <edmoore> LS-DYNA for some stuff
[09:19] <edmoore> scratch-built for most of the aerodynamics
[09:19] <Laurenceb> right
[09:19] <edmoore> the airbags are ls-dyna
[09:20] <edmoore> oh you might now - is there something similar open source?
[09:20] <Laurenceb> hmm
[09:20] <Laurenceb> fraid not
[09:21] <Laurenceb> well I mean I wouldn't know
[09:21] <Laurenceb> got my results through yesterday
[09:23] <Laurenceb> still cant believe it - got a first
[09:25] <edmoore> oh awesome
[09:25] <edmoore> well done
[09:25] <edmoore> so you're sorted then
[09:25] <Laurenceb> yeah
[09:25] <Laurenceb> thanks
[09:26] <Laurenceb> the scaling on the papers seems to have been crazy
[09:27] <Laurenceb> 81% for my worst paper where the raw mark must have been <50, and 70% for my best paper where I was hoping for 80%
[09:27] <edmoore> ?
[09:28] <edmoore> lol
[09:28] <edmoore> such is life
[09:29] <Laurenceb> its not really fair... but at least I cant complain
[09:31] <edmoore> when does sstl start?
[09:31] <Laurenceb> 1st of october
[09:33] <edmoore> wprking over summer?
[09:33] <Laurenceb> well if you call installing skirting work, then yes
[09:34] <Laurenceb> I'll have to take some photos, its looking good now
[09:34] <Laurenceb> almost ready for decorating
[09:34] <edmoore> balloons?
[09:35] <Laurenceb> hopefully
[09:35] <Laurenceb> just have no time atm
[09:35] <Laurenceb> been working 12 hour days :S
[09:36] <Laurenceb> I was up till 3am on monday installing an independent framing system
[09:37] <Laurenceb> the whole thing is horrendously complex for a renovation project
[09:38] <edmoore> when will it be finished?
[09:38] <Laurenceb> about a month
[09:39] <edmoore> then balloons!
[09:39] <Laurenceb> yep :D
[09:39] <Laurenceb> right I have to head off and get the skirting installed, cya
[09:40] <Laurenceb> enjoy the work, sounds good fun
[09:43] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host81-154-154-203.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "The day microsoft make something that doesnt suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner"
[09:52] fnoble (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3776235ad7141b70) joined #highaltitude.
[09:52] <fnoble> hi
[09:52] <fnoble> edmoore: you around?
[09:52] <edmoore> yo
[09:52] <fnoble> finally got some crappy browser based irc client working
[09:53] <edmoore> lol
[09:53] <fnoble> hows things?
[09:53] <edmoore> it's a tough life
[09:53] <edmoore> are you in EIEIO?
[09:53] <fnoble> no, the DPDPO
[09:53] <edmoore> ok, looking at magnus effect at high mach numbers
[09:53] <edmoore> I have an unsimmable thing to sim
[09:54] <fnoble> sounds good!
[09:54] <fnoble> took the badger for a walk the other day
[09:54] <fnoble> got a gps log saved onto the SD card
[09:54] <fnoble> :)
[09:54] <edmoore> awesome
[09:54] <edmoore> so the gps was just an endia fix?
[09:55] <edmoore> endian*
[09:55] <fnoble> yeah, a wierd one
[09:55] <edmoore> would be boring if it wasn't, frankly
[09:55] <fnoble> need to fix it properly
[09:55] <fnoble> just swapped the byte manually for now
[09:55] <edmoore> yucky poo fergus
[09:55] <fnoble> btw, are you still planning on coming up at the w/e?
[09:56] <edmoore> i have been having this exchange on email
[09:56] <edmoore> and getting unhelpful answers from jen
[09:56] <edmoore> is there stuff happening?
[09:56] <fnoble> well, ears is cancelled as you probably know
[09:56] <edmoore> cos I mean, the dept probbly isn't open is it
[09:56] <edmoore> yes yes yes
[09:56] <edmoore> will people stop telling me that
[09:56] <fnoble> heh
[09:57] <fnoble> sorry, i havnt really been checking my emails much
[09:57] <edmoore> I would defintely be coming if there was an ears
[09:57] <edmoore> I'd still like to, but it depends on what there is to do
[09:57] <fnoble> anyway, me, iain and rob will probably be working on stuff
[09:57] <edmoore> whatcha working on that can be done at weekends?
[09:57] <edmoore> i.e. is the autoclave room open and stuff?
[09:58] <fnoble> well we still have the IFM room at the weekend
[09:58] <fnoble> well we dont have anything to make in the autoclave yet
[09:58] <fnoble> will mainly be coding and electronics
[09:58] <edmoore> so mainly tronics?
[09:58] <fnoble> yup
[09:58] <edmoore> ok - do you want to maybe start on v1.2?
[09:58] <edmoore> or is there still plenty to be doing on v1.1
[09:58] <fnoble> will probably take ages to get this mould
[09:59] <fnoble> i think we are nearly ready for 1.2
[09:59] <fnoble> the only thing i want to have more of a look at is the telit
[09:59] <edmoore> so could come and have a bash at that
[09:59] <fnoble> yeah, sounds good
[09:59] <edmoore> we can do them in parallel
[09:59] <edmoore> i will bring up the telit test board
[09:59] <fnoble> i guess you can get the megabus now you dont need to drive
[09:59] <fnoble> cool
[10:00] <edmoore> and we needed and farking svn. let us get all of badger on google code
[10:00] <fnoble> and we will provide brunches
[10:00] <edmoore> or else
[10:00] <fnoble> yup, ok
[10:00] <edmoore> that way I can do stuff too whilst stranded abroad
[10:00] <edmoore> in forein climbs
[10:00] <fnoble> its anoying we have been denied internet access on our dev machine :(
[10:00] <edmoore> does your new room look out onto the anchor?
[10:01] <fnoble> no, onto a bit of kings and a bike shed
[10:02] <edmoore> that's no use
[10:02] <edmoore> if telit works we should launch something next weekend or something
[10:02] <fnoble> yeah, deffo
[10:02] <edmoore> oh oh oh, we could try and get a radio working on avr
[10:02] <fnoble> i was going to ask about that
[10:03] <edmoore> there might be an arguement for having one of them working before 1.2... though actually the hardware probably won't go wrong
[10:03] <edmoore> he says....
[10:03] <fnoble> yeah, it may be good to fly a steve radio as well if he is willing
[10:04] <fnoble> since they are the most reliable design we have flown
[10:04] <fnoble> we should be ordering some radiometrixs today
[10:05] <edmoore> good good, we need a stock
[10:05] <edmoore> well if we fly a steve, we need therefore to get a steve
[10:05] <edmoore> and we need to sort out the 232/i2c interfacing issue
[10:05] <fnoble> yeah
[10:05] <fnoble> but its better than starting from scratch
[10:06] <edmoore> we should get henry's code too
[10:06] <edmoore> he is online curently
[10:06] <fnoble> get him in here
[10:06] <edmoore> that's even better than starting from scratch
[10:06] <fnoble> i have no other means of communication
[10:06] <edmoore> just re-write for an avr
[10:06] <edmoore> ok
[10:06] <fnoble> yeah
[10:07] fnoble_ (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-130c4c0e746a9941) joined #highaltitude.
[10:07] <edmoore> ok
[10:08] <edmoore> emailed him to ask him to appear
[10:08] <fnoble_> ok
[10:08] <edmoore> oh my god he's up early
[10:08] <fnoble_> what time is it there?
[10:08] fnoble (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3776235ad7141b70) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[10:14] <edmoore> 5am?
[10:14] <edmoore> sorry was chattin
[10:15] <fnoble_> s'ok
[10:15] <edmoore> I have this nasty problem to analyse, to see if the parachute sabot, when its ejected, will recontact with the pilot parachute
[10:15] <edmoore> and it's a flat plate being flicked out as the chute package flicks over 180 degrees
[10:16] <edmoore> so it's sort of magnus effect of a complex shape in high mach on mars. It's a bit beyond 1A.
[10:16] <edmoore> infact... is Iain there?
[10:17] <fnoble_> yup
[10:17] <fnoble_> ill get him, i have no idea what you are talking about :)
[10:18] <fnoble_> what's a sabot for one!
[10:18] <fnoble_> this is Iain now btw
[10:18] <edmoore> the thing that sits behind anything you eject from a barrel
[10:18] <edmoore> the sort of gas seal thing
[10:19] <edmoore> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabot
[10:19] <edmoore> so this is a circular in cross section, but I-shape if you can across it
[10:19] <edmoore> and it's being flung out spinning into a mach 3 flow
[10:20] <fnoble_> right..
[10:20] <edmoore> and the resulting magnus effect needs modelling, so make sure it doesn't fly into the chute or something crap like that
[10:20] <fnoble_> that sounds tricky
[10:20] <edmoore> so it's basically magnus of spinning plates in supersonic flow
[10:21] <fnoble_> will it split so it's not actually a plate but two halves
[10:21] <edmoore> no, it's one solid plate
[10:21] <fnoble_> Ok
[10:22] <edmoore> the cable is wrapped around the chute, and the sabot is a snug fit to the chute, it sort of craddles the bottom half
[10:22] <fnoble_> Will it definitely remain axial, or could it twist, as that would make it much more difficult
[10:22] <edmoore> so when the chute gets flung out the mortar, and the cable becomes taught, it snaps the sabot off
[10:22] <edmoore> and the sabot starts spinning round
[10:24] <edmoore> because of a torque generated by it being prized off by the cable going taught. But don't worry - we will put it in the sim and get completely untrustworth results
[10:24] <fnoble_> Is the whole para =sabot thing ejected with spin, or does it spin after?
[10:24] <edmoore> but ESA might trust them
[10:24] <edmoore> the para is loaded into the mortar head first
[10:25] <edmoore> so it flicks over 180 degs when it opens
[10:25] <fnoble_> this is massively confusing to visualise
[10:28] <fnoble_> the magnus effect only does stuff when the flow is perp. to the circular cross section (right?) otherwise t=you just have a circular flat plate in the flow
[10:28] <fnoble_> so are you trying to model it in the flipping round phase?
[10:29] <edmoore> 2 secs
[10:38] <edmoore> sorry, am back
[10:38] <edmoore> was white-boarding with shane
[10:41] <edmoore> so the plate will be ejected by the mortar and chute arrangement with some horizonal velocity v, some angular velocity w
[10:41] <edmoore> into a flow of velocity u
[10:41] <edmoore> mach 1.9
[10:41] <edmoore> it's not that exciting - I'll keep reading
[10:42] <fnoble_> and at this point the axis of rotation of the disc is horizontal??
[10:42] <edmoore> yes
[10:42] <fnoble_> now I understand!
[10:42] <edmoore> so it's spinning about that axis, like tossing a pancake
[10:44] <edmoore> the direction of spin is in fact such that the magnus effect should result in a force such that its vector points away from the entry module
[10:44] <fnoble_> that sounds like patching a subsonic b-layer onto an external supersonic flow field, which may take a while!
[10:44] <edmoore> but I'd still like to be a bit more quantitative
[10:45] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) joined #highaltitude.
[10:45] <edmoore> what's the mold like?
[10:45] <edmoore> mould*
[10:46] <fnoble_> Pretty awesome, we need to get info from the manufacturer to see if they can mill in it one piece
[10:46] <fnoble_> its about 1.5m long, external mould with latex balloon inflated inside
[10:47] <fnoble_> should get an awesome finish on the rocket
[10:47] <edmoore> :D
[10:47] <edmoore> I want to visit these peeps
[10:47] <fnoble_> It covers the nosecone and ~1m of tube
[10:47] <fnoble_> me too
[10:47] <edmoore> have you not?
[10:48] <edmoore> We should see if we can get a tour around
[10:48] <fnoble_> No just talked to them. I'm sure they'd be keen, but we'd need a car...(Ed?)
[10:48] <fnoble_> I should get back to Matlab and work out stability margins
[10:48] <edmoore> Are they about at the weekend?
[10:48] <fnoble_> fun, fun fun
[10:49] <edmoore> ok
[10:49] <edmoore> well... do what fergus has done
[10:49] <edmoore> and log into irc
[10:49] <edmoore> then check every 2 hours when you need a break from matlab
[10:49] <edmoore> and that's how irc works
[10:49] <fnoble_> he not cool enough for irc
[10:50] <edmoore> fergus again?
[10:50] <fnoble_> yup
[10:50] <fnoble_> crossworks is being so annoying
[10:50] <fnoble_> its full of bugs this beta mac version
[10:51] <edmoore> sigh and arse
[10:51] <edmoore> if you feel crazy, could try Code::Blocks
[10:51] <edmoore> but then we don't have the fast maths lib
[10:51] <fnoble_> wonder if there is a newer version- could you give me the download link?
[10:51] <edmoore> but it's got a GUI for GDB
[10:51] <edmoore> will have a look - gimme a sec
[10:52] <edmoore> http://www.rowleydownload.co.uk/snapshots/msp430_crossworks_wavefront_macos_
[10:52] <edmoore> x86.dmg
[10:52] <edmoore> that should all be one line
[10:53] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@92.40.215.159.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[10:53] <fnoble_> msp430?
[10:54] <edmoore> change that to arm, too
[10:54] <fnoble_> hi jcoxon
[10:55] <edmoore> jcoxon: hello!
[10:55] <jcoxon> alright all
[10:56] <jcoxon> hows tricks?
[10:56] <fnoble_> ok, good progress with the flight computer
[10:57] <jcoxon> excellent
[10:57] <fnoble_> got it logging gps to an sd card
[10:57] <jcoxon> coolio
[10:57] <edmoore> ready to fly!!
[10:57] <jcoxon> really...
[10:57] <edmoore> no
[10:57] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:57] <fnoble_> need radio and telit still
[10:57] <edmoore> oh fnoble_ I've put badger v1.1 forward to a high alt attempt
[10:58] <edmoore> just thought you should know....
[10:58] <jcoxon> :-D
[10:58] <jcoxon> edmoore, a little bit of balloon porn for you:
[10:58] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/2634900584/
[10:58] <edmoore> well, just make a light payload, put it under a 1.2 on a still day and see what happens
[10:59] <edmoore> oh james!
[10:59] <edmoore> that's a beautiful!
[10:59] <jcoxon> i've also got it now to grab sms of my phone via bluetooth when they arrive
[10:59] <edmoore> fnoble_: was it wxwidgets you got excited about at the end of last term?
[10:59] hallam (i=hallam@PIKA-ONE-TWENTY-ONE.MIT.EDU) joined #highaltitude.
[10:59] <jcoxon> next step is to set up the packet radio decoder
[10:59] <hallam> hey gang
[11:00] <jcoxon> and work out a way of getting hte data accross
[11:00] <jcoxon> hey henry
[11:00] <fnoble_> erm, well yes and no
[11:00] <edmoore> fnoble_: I've been using it, that's all. And now can share the excitement, if there's any to be shared
[11:00] <fnoble_> i was getting excited about how you can wrap wx really nicely in python
[11:00] <edmoore> And given rob F and Iain are windows trogolodytes
[11:01] <edmoore> would be useful for all our stuff to be portable
[11:01] <fnoble_> yeah
[11:01] <fnoble_> hey henry
[11:01] Action: hallam reports for brain picking
[11:01] <hallam> be gentle though, it's 6am here
[11:01] <edmoore> fnoble_: fire away, need to do some code for 2 mins
[11:01] <edmoore> hallam: got up early or not slept yet?
[11:02] <hallam> latter
[11:02] borism_ (n=boris@195-50-207-110-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[11:02] <hallam> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=19911 this suggests that Ola is a promising sort of person
[11:03] <edmoore> I'll see if I come across him
[11:03] <edmoore> And make friends if i do
[11:04] <fnoble_> henry: could we have a look at your radio code / hardware design?
[11:04] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) left irc: "Leaving"
[11:04] <hallam> sure
[11:04] <hallam> it's essentially unchanged since Nova 3
[11:05] <edmoore> hallam: we basically want to plonk it onto an avr. Although actually a pic could be used
[11:05] <hallam> advantage of the PIC is the built-in 4-bit DAC which I believe the AVR doesn't have?
[11:06] <edmoore> correct
[11:06] <edmoore> but we do have some external Dacs
[11:06] <hallam> ok
[11:06] <hallam> personally I would choose a PIC over an external DAC
[11:06] <fnoble_> and only the massive pics have the DAC?
[11:06] <hallam> no
[11:06] <hallam> I think even some 8-pin PICs have it
[11:06] <fnoble_> ok, thats cool then
[11:07] <hallam> don't think the 8-pin ones have a UART but you can get pretty small ones that do
[11:08] <edmoore> The DAC on them is just generated off the pwm though isn't it?
[11:08] <hallam> no
[11:08] <edmoore> not that that's inherently a bad thing
[11:08] <hallam> it's a real DAC
[11:08] <hallam> it was designed in to provide a reference for the comparator
[11:08] <hallam> but you can use it just fine as a DAC
[11:09] <edmoore> ok
[11:10] <hallam> it's an R-2R ladder I believe
[11:10] <edmoore> hallam: could you email the firmware zip to fergus and I?
[11:10] <hallam> ok lemme find it
[11:10] <edmoore> hallam: is all MIT rocket money dried up?
[11:10] <edmoore> or at least, you've lot it?
[11:10] <edmoore> lost access to it*
[11:11] <hallam> um, not that I'm aware of, there are still a few thousand in the account for this year
[11:11] borism (n=boris@195-50-197-65-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[11:12] <edmoore> there's a shop set up to sell paparazzi modules which sells 10 ublox 5H's for $380
[11:12] <edmoore> i.e. £20 each
[11:12] <edmoore> which is amazing as they're one of the best GPSes on the market
[11:12] <hallam> does it include an antenna?
[11:12] <hallam> email sent
[11:12] <fnoble_> thanks
[11:13] <hallam> the pic lets you connect your own reference to each end of the ladder
[11:13] <hallam> so I have a couple of pots
[11:13] <hallam> that lets you tune the frequency and the shift
[11:13] <hallam> for the software, there are a couple ways to do it
[11:13] <hallam> I recommend having a dedicated microcontroller of some kind for the radio
[11:13] <edmoore> hallam: no it's just the pcb module
[11:13] <edmoore> but making up pcbs is not too scary
[11:13] <edmoore> we are
[11:14] <edmoore> surface mount module*
[11:14] <hallam> sure
[11:14] <hallam> but it means an external active antenna which is annoying to provide power for, or a patch antenna and an LNA which is a hassle
[11:14] <edmoore> but we can then make pcbs for just the gps, stick em on a can bus, and mount them whevever
[11:14] <hallam> fair enough
[11:15] <edmoore> and can have 50mm x 50mm pcb ground planes with a 25mm patch antenna
[11:15] <edmoore> and have about the best lock money can buy
[11:15] <hallam> by that point it probably ends up bigger and heavier and expensiver than an EM406
[11:15] <hallam> but may well be worth it for the better reception
[11:15] <edmoore> and works about 24km
[11:15] <edmoore> and has 5hz updates
[11:15] <edmoore> 4hz*
[11:15] <hallam> how sure on the altitude?
[11:15] <fnoble_> the 5H works above 24km?
[11:15] <edmoore> uhuh
[11:16] <edmoore> sure in that I spoke to a swiss engineer who couldn't really do enlgish
[11:16] <jcoxon> while the data sheet says yes, no one has actually pushed it
[11:16] <jcoxon> none of my ubloxes have reached 24km
[11:16] <edmoore> but kept saying 'just 515m/s limit. dynamic limit. no altitude limit'
[11:16] <hallam> that's fairly promising
[11:16] <edmoore> we should test them
[11:17] <edmoore> if they work, they'll be groovy
[11:17] <jcoxon> well i've got one nearly ready to fly
[11:17] <edmoore> cool
[11:17] <hallam> for rocket purposes it would be good to know exactly what it does when the dynamic limit is exceeded too
[11:17] <fnoble_> brb
[11:17] <edmoore> need to get it high
[11:17] <edmoore> well we should log iain's l2 for next month
[11:17] <edmoore> we have the time to do that now
[11:17] <hallam> anyway back to the software, assuming you want to do the cos pulse shaping, you can either chop up the waveform along the time axis or along the voltage axis
[11:18] <edmoore> fnoble_: for when you get back: we should make a ublox logger for iain's l2
[11:18] <hallam> time axis is the traditional way, voltage axis is better
[11:18] <edmoore> I'm not following you
[11:18] <hallam> I'll describe the dumb way first
[11:19] <hallam> at evenly spaced time intervals, you output a voltage looked up from a table
[11:19] <edmoore> yup
[11:19] <edmoore> so far so good
[11:19] <edmoore> or vice versa?
[11:20] <hallam> output looks like 0 0 1 1 2 3 6 10 13 14 15 or something
[11:20] <hallam> so you totally waste the capability of the dac
[11:20] <edmoore> yep yep
[11:20] <edmoore> i see what the alternative is
[11:20] <hallam> ok
[11:20] <edmoore> yeah, we can do it that way no probs
[11:20] <hallam> I'm sure in practice it makes fuck all difference to the radio
[11:20] <edmoore> it's nice to be nice
[11:21] <hallam> and I bet in practice you don't need a DAC at all, and would be fine with a UART connected to a first order passive filter
[11:21] <edmoore> you are almost certainly right
[11:21] <hallam> but I did it with the DAC and the 'clever way', that's what's in the firmware I sent you
[11:21] <edmoore> but then you can't try something different when you want to get clever
[11:21] <fnoble_> iain asks how heavy do you expect the parachute and harness to be?
[11:22] <hallam> asks me?
[11:22] <hallam> for the 100km rocket?
[11:22] <fnoble_> yep
[11:22] <edmoore> iain is being politic....
[11:22] <edmoore> he knows, he's building the mofo
[11:22] <hallam> I guessed about 200-300g for my sims
[11:22] <hallam> based on some quick googling
[11:23] <hallam> what does he reckon? I'd love to know
[11:23] <edmoore> we'll have to test this on my car
[11:23] <fnoble_> definitely
[11:23] <edmoore> we definitely need one of those casios
[11:25] <edmoore> eurofighter just went over at 200ft
[11:25] <edmoore> very nice
[11:25] <hallam> blimey
[11:25] <edmoore> we're next to lots of raf bases here
[11:26] <edmoore> fnoble_: what does Iain reckon?
[11:27] <edmoore> fnoble_: second thing: when iain makes a nice 6DOF sim for all this and we want to run 2000 case Monte Carlos, it'll need to be in C++.... just make sure he realises :p
[11:29] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@92.40.215.159.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[11:33] <hallam> Ed, if you happen to speak to the Swiss engineer again, can you ask him what the behaviour is above 500m/s? i.e. does it seamlessly recover when dropping back below that speed
[11:33] <hallam> I'm going to hit the hay
[11:33] <hallam> night all
[11:33] hallam (i=hallam@PIKA-ONE-TWENTY-ONE.MIT.EDU) left irc:
[11:34] <fnoble_> ok, crossworks has refused to debug or download anything now
[11:34] <fnoble_> this is getting annoying
[11:35] <fnoble_> even to the dev board
[11:35] <fnoble_> hope the crossconnect isnt dead
[11:39] <edmoore> tried the new release?
[11:39] <edmoore> fnoble_: can you tell Iain I have the new addition of Hoerner now too
[11:39] <edmoore> make sure he is suitable jealous
[11:39] <fnoble_> yeah
[11:39] <edmoore> it's all about the way you tell it
[11:52] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) joined #highaltitude.
[11:54] <edmoore> fnoble_: what's happening?
[12:00] <fnoble_> sorry
[12:01] <fnoble_> been stressing out about this goddamn crossworks shizzle
[12:01] <edmoore> and this is with the new version?
[12:02] <fnoble_> new version is worse than the old
[12:02] <fnoble_> gone back to the old now
[12:02] <edmoore> bum
[12:03] <edmoore> could go open source....
[12:03] <edmoore> but that's a bum
[12:03] <fnoble_> yey
[12:03] <edmoore> ?
[12:03] <fnoble_> thats really wierd, its come back to life
[12:03] <fnoble_> no canges to the code at all
[12:04] <edmoore> lol
[12:04] <edmoore> ok, well run with it
[12:04] <fnoble_> yeah
[12:04] <fnoble_> the engineering dept was designed specifically to exclude GPS reception
[12:04] <edmoore> it's a plastic building
[12:05] <fnoble_> it was the main design criteria for spacing the metal window frames
[12:05] <edmoore> which basically means there's chicken wire in the walls
[12:05] <fnoble_> its all RSJs concrete and small framed metal windows
[12:05] <edmoore> well up one floor and outside is the balconey
[12:05] <edmoore> and it's nice there
[12:06] <edmoore> you could do some dev
[12:06] <fnoble_> yeah, no net access though
[12:06] <edmoore> This is so ridiculous. Why can't you use the wireless?
[12:06] <fnoble_> dunno, its not lapwing its some cued specific thing
[12:06] <fnoble_> rob's password didnt work on it either
[12:07] <edmoore> have you asked?
[12:07] <edmoore> Get iain to ask Tim Love
[12:07] <fnoble_> nope
[12:07] <fnoble_> well maybe we could try
[12:07] <edmoore> definitely ask. It's not worth faffing about.
[12:07] <fnoble_> its not too bad using the pcs here though
[12:07] <edmoore> Yes it is
[12:08] <fnoble_> having 2 sats is so frustratingf
[12:08] <edmoore> maybe make gps-sim?
[12:08] <fnoble_> its a lot of work
[12:08] <fnoble_> boy can this sucker pump out a lot of data
[12:09] <fnoble_> got it decoding some of the stats, like sat count, fix type, PDOP etc now
[12:09] <fnoble_> but thats like only one status packet out of about 20 different ones you could decode
[12:13] <edmoore> that's cool though
[12:13] <edmoore> remember it will take 15 mins to get a lock on 3 or 4 sats
[12:13] <edmoore> if it has to re-download ephemeris
[12:14] <fnoble_> yeah, put it on the outside of the windowframe now
[12:14] <fnoble_> up to 6
[12:14] <edmoore> going to make some lunch - back in 5 mins. leave stuff for me if you want
[12:14] <fnoble_> ok, cya
[12:27] <edmoore> bk
[12:36] <edmoore> fnoble_: are ye there, and is iain there?
[13:21] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@nat66.mia.three.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[13:33] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@nat66.mia.three.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[13:40] fnoble_ (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-130c4c0e746a9941) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[13:50] fnoble (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-eb47e0101cd98b47) joined #highaltitude.
[13:50] <fnoble> back
[13:50] <fnoble> ed, when do you think you will come?
[13:51] <edmoore> not sure yet
[13:51] <edmoore> Am skirt chasing on Sat
[13:51] <edmoore> but bros before hoes, if there's enough justification
[13:52] <edmoore> actually that's rude and she's lovely. Is iain there?
[13:53] <fnoble> hes setting up the stand for the open day
[13:53] <fnoble> can get him if need be
[13:53] <fnoble> ok, thats cool, theres not that much need
[13:54] <edmoore> so sunday morn I guess
[13:54] <fnoble> cool
[13:54] <edmoore> has he been roped into helping out with open day?
[13:54] <fnoble> yeah
[13:54] <edmoore> poor bugger
[13:55] <fnoble> rob and me too but i managed to duck out
[13:55] <edmoore> do you know who's guest lecturing? If it's babinsky then it might be entertaining.
[13:55] <fnoble> said i would try and persuade people to do physics if i stayed
[13:55] <fnoble> dunno
[13:55] <edmoore> And you can ask him about Mugnus effect at high reynolds numbers. I can't believe no one seems to have characterised this before.
[13:55] <fnoble> they put us in a corner ouyt the way of everything
[13:56] <edmoore> Magnus*
[13:56] <fnoble> ok, will do
[15:04] borism_ (n=boris@195-50-207-110-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[16:50] borism (n=boris@195-50-197-108-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[16:55] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude.
[17:05] fnoble (i=81a90a38@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-eb47e0101cd98b47) left irc: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
[17:14] edmoore (n=edmoore@smtp.vorticity-systems.com) left irc:
[17:32] borism (n=boris@195-50-197-108-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[17:53] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[17:55] borism (n=boris@195-50-207-90-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[18:04] borism_ (n=boris@195-50-206-69-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[18:09] borism (n=boris@195-50-207-90-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[18:29] borism_ (n=boris@195-50-206-69-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[18:34] <Hiena> Hmmm... I guess, i'm starting to be oxygen addict. I couchflown a 40 litre tank medical clean oxygen the last few days, and i'm missing it.
[18:43] RocketBoy (n=grunge@217.47.75.27) joined #highaltitude.
[18:56] borism (n=boris@195-50-201-185-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[19:13] borism (n=boris@195-50-201-185-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[19:17] RocketBoy (n=grunge@217.47.75.27) left irc: "Leaving"
[19:21] borism (n=boris@195-50-205-226-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[20:26] natrium42 (n=alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc:
[21:12] borism (n=boris@195-50-205-226-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Client Quit
[21:23] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:30] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:51] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Halt!=-"
[22:12] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-145-229-223.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:30] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: ""Don't let worry kill you -- let the church help.""
[23:05] yansa (n=yans@host-89-230-209-7.lublin.mm.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[23:18] yansa (n=yans@host-89-230-209-7.lublin.mm.pl) left irc: "Ex-Chat"
[23:19] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host81-154-154-203.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:34] borism (n=boris@195-50-205-226-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[00:00] --- Sat Jul 5 2008