highaltitude.log.20080607

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[00:09] <Laurenceb> hi edmoore
[00:09] <edmoore> hi
[00:10] <Laurenceb> have you had/finished exams yet?
[00:11] <edmoore> yep
[00:12] <edmoore> this afternon
[00:12] <Laurenceb> cool
[00:12] <edmoore> you?
[00:12] <Laurenceb> tuesday and friday for me
[00:12] <Laurenceb> next week
[00:12] <Laurenceb> how did it go?
[00:13] <edmoore> not bad
[00:13] <edmoore> but it's out of mind now
[00:13] <edmoore> 2 weeks of fun
[00:13] <Laurenceb> I know the feeling
[00:14] <Laurenceb> I'm presently trying to revise NMR ... I'll make a culinary NMR machine yet
[00:14] <jcoxon> congrats for finishing edmoore
[00:14] <edmoore> ty
[00:14] <Laurenceb> I'll second that :P
[00:15] <Laurenceb> did you get the GM862 eval board?
[00:19] <edmoore> yes ty
[00:20] <edmoore> could you email me the details for a cheque?
[00:20] <jcoxon> night all
[00:20] <jcoxon> will be around tomorrow
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[00:20] <Laurenceb> cya
[00:20] <Laurenceb> edmoore, sure thing
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[00:30] <Laurenceb> cya
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[11:04] <jcoxon> morning edmoore_
[11:07] <edmoore_> yo
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[11:09] <jcoxon> no work until october
[11:10] <jcoxon> damn you :-)
[11:44] <edmoore_> jcoxon: sorry my thing stopped bonging
[11:44] <edmoore_> but yes!
[11:44] <edmoore_> no work until october
[11:44] <edmoore_> except cool shit
[11:44] <edmoore_> ]/nick edmoore
[11:44] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[11:44] <edmoore> 2nd time lucky
[11:46] <jcoxon> :-)
[11:46] <jcoxon> i'll finally get my hands on the goliath board tomorrow
[11:46] <jcoxon> they sent it home home
[11:51] <edmoore> awesome :)
[11:51] <edmoore> can't wait to work on badger now
[11:51] <edmoore> we're going to pot the badger now too
[11:58] <jcoxon> oooooo exciting
[12:05] <jcoxon> we need to get launching
[12:45] <edmoore> jcoxon: sleep first
[12:45] <edmoore> churchill brunch efect
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[14:27] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
[14:29] <RocketBoy> hey jcoxon - hows it going?
[14:29] <jcoxon> not bad thanks
[14:29] <jcoxon> you?
[14:30] <RocketBoy> yeah - Ok - just sorting out this CAA stuff still
[14:30] <jcoxon> urgh, any progress?
[14:31] <RocketBoy> yeah sort of they have written back requesting details of numbers of flights of rockets and balloons
[14:31] <RocketBoy> they wanted deatils on the number of rocket flights to each altitude
[14:32] <RocketBoy> and the maximum flight duration and distance
[14:32] <jcoxon> is it positive?
[14:32] <RocketBoy> so its been a bit of a pain becuse we don't record most of it
[14:34] <RocketBoy> yeah partially positive - but they have the upper hand really - so all we can do is negociate as best a way forward as possible - I think the chances of the stack being put somewhere else are zero
[14:34] <jcoxon> is it worth us starting to investigate alternative options?
[14:34] <RocketBoy> so I'm looking to co-ordinate launches with ATC as the way forward
[14:34] <jcoxon> so that we don't get caught out
[14:34] <jcoxon> oh right
[14:35] <RocketBoy> yeah - I was thinking that for ballooning then we might be better off looking for another site more west
[14:35] <RocketBoy> where would the best plance be in the UK?
[14:35] <jcoxon> are there any available gaps
[14:36] <jcoxon> tis a good question
[14:36] <jcoxon> we have to weigh up a hell of a lot
[14:36] <jcoxon> i guess work on a SW prevailing wind
[14:36] <jcoxon> and a general jetstream that blows payloads east
[14:36] <RocketBoy> the number of places in uncontrolled airspace is getting smaler
[14:37] <jcoxon> yeah
[14:37] <RocketBoy> yeah - a combination of prevailing winds and costline
[14:37] <jcoxon> the problem is the more west the more cities etc
[14:37] <RocketBoy> and airspace
[14:38] <jcoxon> thats why landing in east anglia is great
[14:39] <RocketBoy> well in the general area controlled airspace starts a ways up - 5000ft plus
[14:40] <jcoxon> what exactly is the issue with us and the stack
[14:40] <RocketBoy> I'm looing for somewhere where we arn't launching into a holding stack - or other area with a hight aircraft density
[14:40] <jcoxon> is it the launching or the flights themselves?
[14:40] <jcoxon> so its the fact that we pass through a stack
[14:41] <RocketBoy> yeah - thats my guess - they havn't actually said its a problem at all yet
[14:41] <RocketBoy> reqaally where we are is 1) they have announced the introduction of the controlled airspace
[14:42] <RocketBoy> 2) we asked - how does that affect us
[14:42] <RocketBoy> 3) they asked - how often do you fly etc.
[14:42] <RocketBoy> and I'm just answeing that now
[14:43] <jcoxon> olay
[14:43] <jcoxon> okay*
[14:43] <RocketBoy> hehe
[14:44] <jcoxon> hmmmho
[14:44] <jcoxon> well i guess we'll just have to see how it pans out
[14:45] <RocketBoy> I'm putting somthing at the end of the letter that says somthing like - if we can find an accomodation then our memebers want to register their objection to the proposal
[14:48] <RocketBoy> hows projects going - I have still to make your transmitter
[14:48] <jcoxon> ummmmm haven't done much
[14:48] <jcoxon> gumstix sent me a goliath board
[14:48] <jcoxon> but it got sent to my suffolk address
[14:48] <jcoxon> so i'm getting it tomorrow
[14:49] <RocketBoy> doh
[14:49] <jcoxon> reckon i'll shift over to using that
[14:49] <RocketBoy> yeah
[14:49] <jcoxon> which means that hardware wise just need to sort the radio transmitter and the cutdown
[14:49] <jcoxon> was thinking of going for a wireless cutdown system
[14:49] <RocketBoy> I dug out some deatils on a TV downlink - I think I could do 10Km with off the shelf stuff
[14:50] <jcoxon> nice
[14:50] <jcoxon> well if not i'm up for trying the packet radio approach
[14:50] <RocketBoy> there are some 24dBi dish antennas for wifi which operate on the same frequency
[14:51] <RocketBoy> so with one of those should be able to do 10Km with a 10mW TV TX
[14:51] <RocketBoy> or so the specs indicate
[14:51] <RocketBoy> mind you the dish is about 3ft across
[14:52] <jcoxon> it would look really cool :-)
[14:52] <jcoxon> edmoore, fnoble and i were thinking of a sort of open day launch
[14:52] <jcoxon> were we could invite people to see what we get up
[14:52] <edmoore> that would be good
[14:52] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[14:52] <edmoore> high all, btw
[14:52] <RocketBoy> if I could get a 6ft dish that would do 20Km ... 12ft = 40Km and so on
[14:53] <RocketBoy> hi ed
[14:53] <jcoxon> and so were thinking it owuld be a good time for video downlink
[14:53] <edmoore> eeeeeek
[14:53] <RocketBoy> yeah np
[14:53] <edmoore> but awesome
[14:54] <jcoxon> either direclty or the packet radio appoach
[14:54] <jcoxon> jsut some images would be good
[14:54] <edmoore> will be designing the v1.2 badger today.... is there anything that could be put on it that would be useful for vid at some point?
[14:54] <RocketBoy> humm let me think
[14:56] <RocketBoy> I guess some form of camera interface - USB
[14:56] <RocketBoy> 2.0
[14:56] <RocketBoy> and fast write to flash
[14:57] <edmoore> maybe that's pushing it :)
[14:57] <RocketBoy> then it could get processed in non-real time and sent down in clips
[14:57] <jcoxon> hehe
[14:57] <jcoxon> i might be able to do that
[14:57] <RocketBoy> yeah - I'll think on it some more
[14:58] <RocketBoy> some USB2 video capture drivers under unix
[14:58] <RocketBoy> or DVi interface
[14:58] <jcoxon> can't do usb2
[14:58] <jcoxon> but i have usb1
[14:58] <jcoxon> perhaps have a digital camera take short clips, download them over usb
[14:58] <jcoxon> process them
[14:58] <jcoxon> send them down
[14:58] <jcoxon> or instead use a webcam
[14:59] <RocketBoy> the 2.4GHz TV downlink is really doable with off the shelf stuff - shame about the range
[14:59] <RocketBoy> still a 6ft dish is'nt completly un-realistic
[15:00] <RocketBoy> need to find one on ebay
[15:00] <edmoore> could you get one that folds up?
[15:01] <RocketBoy> I'm tempted to just get the 24dBi antenna and the other off the shelf stuff
[15:01] <RocketBoy> yeah - there are some fold up designs in a old Ham book I have
[15:02] <RocketBoy> for 2.4Hz the mechanical accuracy doesn't have to be that good - about 1cm for the dish parababla
[15:02] <RocketBoy> (I think)
[15:03] <RocketBoy> 2.4GHz (tehehe)
[15:03] <RocketBoy> just going out for somthing to eat BBL
[15:03] <edmoore> lol
[15:03] <edmoore> ok cya
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[15:06] <jcoxon> video downlink would be sooo cool
[15:06] <jcoxon> and the bigger the dish the bigger the cool factor
[15:08] <edmoore> :D
[15:08] <edmoore> on a truck
[15:08] <edmoore> oh god i need to work on badger
[15:08] <edmoore> can't wait to get that thing rocking
[15:08] <jcoxon> launch launch launch
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[16:43] <mc-> edmoore_
[16:43] <edmoore_> hi mc
[16:43] Nick change: edmoore_ -> edmoore
[16:43] <mc-> hows it's going? now it's all over
[16:43] <edmoore> slight headache....
[16:43] <edmoore> but quite an amazing feeling
[16:43] <mc-> from the kebab
[16:44] <edmoore> naturally :)
[16:44] <edmoore> how are you?
[16:44] <mc-> good but busy
[16:44] <mc-> spoke to John B a few days ago
[16:44] <edmoore> uhuh
[16:44] <mc-> he's had my GPS tracker on test
[16:45] <edmoore> oh I gave him all the stuff, btw
[16:45] <mc-> but I forgot to tell him how to decode the data...
[16:45] <mc-> thanks
[16:45] <mc-> did you find the stuff the R&T delivered?
[16:46] <mc-> did it include everything on the email?
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[16:46] <edmoore> yes - that what was i gave him
[16:46] <edmoore> along with I90
[16:46] <edmoore> except for this sheet of ply
[16:46] <edmoore> hi RocketBoy
[16:47] <mc-> was everything in there, including swivels etc?
[16:47] <edmoore> yep
[16:48] <edmoore> in a bubble-wrap bag
[16:48] <mc-> Rocketboy, I saw you were looking at dishes, http://www.gatr.com/
[16:49] <mc-> thanks for that, edmoore
[16:49] <edmoore> no problem, sorry I've been slow
[16:49] <edmoore> been a little highly strung of late :)
[16:50] <edmoore> those inflatables are an awesome idea
[16:50] <edmoore> !
[16:50] <mc-> just need a bit of mylar
[16:50] <RocketBoy> http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/ - uggg I have been violated
[16:51] <edmoore> :D
[16:51] <edmoore> you can see where we might have got our logo....
[16:51] <edmoore> actually for the v2 we'd quite like to get a proper logo
[16:51] <edmoore> a badger in aviator goggles or something
[16:51] <RocketBoy> yeah
[16:53] <RocketBoy> so how is your Mustelidae project going
[16:54] <edmoore> well I can be full-time on it for 2 weeks now which is nice
[16:54] <edmoore> fergus currently has the only licensed copy of the dev software though, and he doesn't finish till tues
[16:54] <edmoore> so I might work on mechanical stuff
[16:54] <edmoore> nova 6 (at bloody last.....) will be soon
[16:55] <RocketBoy> woooo
[16:56] <edmoore> might make up some cutdowns
[16:56] <edmoore> I don't like having so much of that powder stored in one tub in my car
[16:57] <edmoore> so distributing it among a few cutdowns would be nice
[16:57] <RocketBoy> nah - bad idea
[16:57] <edmoore> even if it's pretty weedy
[16:57] <RocketBoy> still need treating with respect
[16:58] <edmoore> also, might knock up some cutdowns igniters on a pcb. can get a lot onto a eurocard
[16:58] <edmoore> and fergus wants to pot the badger board, so we can test the technique on cutdown pcbs, which would probs benefit more from being potted
[16:59] <mc-> could you make some cutdowns please?
[16:59] <edmoore> the actual bang on the driver circuit?
[16:59] <edmoore> or*
[16:59] <edmoore> bbl sorry, friedn has popped over
[16:59] <edmoore> will pick up the messages in a bit :)
[16:59] <edmoore> bbl
[16:59] <mc-> the bang
[16:59] <edmoore> yep willdo
[17:00] <mc-> ty
[17:16] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, you around?
[17:18] <RocketBoy> yep
[17:19] <jcoxon> was thinking about wireless cutdown drivers
[17:20] <jcoxon> so we have the powersupply, cutdown driver and a radio reciever in a seperate compartment
[17:20] <jcoxon> means we can have longer distances from hte cutdown and the payload
[17:20] <RocketBoy> how do you mean? somthing remotly triggered?
[17:20] <jcoxon> well the payload triggers it
[17:21] <jcoxon> but over a radio link
[17:21] <RocketBoy> yeah - so battery + reciver + decoder + FET
[17:21] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:22] <jcoxon> also i think it would make easier launches
[17:22] <RocketBoy> expendable?
[17:22] <jcoxon> not necessarily
[17:23] <jcoxon> perhaps have it as the 'bottle top' for the parachute
[17:24] <RocketBoy> humm - just wondring if it will be much lighter with a seperate battery
[17:24] <RocketBoy> (and reciver and decoder)
[17:24] <jcoxon> ?
[17:24] <jcoxon> oh right
[17:25] <jcoxon> it does mean we can put more line between everything
[17:25] <RocketBoy> probably need to measure it against thin wire
[17:26] <RocketBoy> I should be able to come up with a circuit that is FET + capacitor on the end of long thin wire
[17:27] <jcoxon> okay
[17:27] <RocketBoy> it would harge up the capacitor over the wire - then fire it somehow
[17:27] <RocketBoy> harge = charge
[17:27] <RocketBoy> say by a reverse pulse - or similar
[17:28] <RocketBoy> hang on I'll go measure some thin wire
[17:29] <jcoxon> while this system would increase the weight i think it would make it easier
[17:29] <jcoxon> and could help with a dual balloon system
[17:29] <jcoxon> help cut away the first stage balloon
[17:33] <RocketBoy> well 3.8m of 2 wire stripped from ribbon cable would be 13g
[17:33] <RocketBoy> so how long were you thinking
[17:34] <jcoxon> not really sure to tell you the truth
[17:34] <jcoxon> setting up the cutdown just before launch is a real faff
[17:34] <jcoxon> perhaps if we prepared it and had the wires secured along the main line to reduce tangling
[17:36] <RocketBoy> so I'm thinking 10g for a battery and 5g for a receiver and say 5g for a decoder
[17:36] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:36] <jcoxon> is that do-able?
[17:36] <RocketBoy> then the transmitter in the payload would probably add 5g
[17:36] <RocketBoy> (assuming a seperate syetm to the downlink)
[17:36] <jcoxon> originally i was think a keyfob am transmitter and reciever
[17:36] <jcoxon> yup
[17:36] <RocketBoy> yeah its do-able
[17:37] <jcoxon> also its interchangable payload wise
[17:37] <jcoxon> as long as they have the correct transmitter
[17:38] <RocketBoy> yeah a keyfob system would be the sort of thing - you need some form of coding protection to stop it being fired inadvertantly
[17:39] <jcoxon> perhaps 3 signals or something
[17:39] <RocketBoy> 3?
[17:39] <RocketBoy> k?
[17:40] <jcoxon> as in the receiver has to receive 3 commands to fire in a row
[17:40] <RocketBoy> ah OK - I was thinking keyloq encription and a single command
[17:41] <jcoxon> or that :-)
[17:41] <RocketBoy> thats what I have used on the EARS radio rocket launcher
[17:41] <jcoxon> i looked at off teh shelf options
[17:41] <jcoxon> the receiver is pretty large usually
[17:41] <RocketBoy> yeah - but not too bad on weight
[17:43] <jcoxon> some options have the decoder already built in
[17:44] <RocketBoy> This is what I used on the radio launcher http://www.rapidonline.com/netalogue/specs/43-0226.pdf
[17:44] <RocketBoy> receiver was about £10 - but quite lite
[17:45] <RocketBoy> and keyloq chips
[17:46] <jcoxon> WARNING - maplin link:
[17:46] <jcoxon> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=35628&doy=7m6
[17:46] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:47] <jcoxon> has 4 outputs
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[17:49] <RocketBoy> oh yeah keeloq
[17:49] <RocketBoy> its the same thing
[17:50] <RocketBoy> reciver and keeloq chip integrated
[17:53] <jcoxon> i shall have a think
[17:53] <jcoxon> i think it would be quite useful, and only need to be designed once
[17:56] <RocketBoy> yep
[17:56] <mc-> are you thinking of a RF activated cutdown on the balloon?
[17:56] <jcoxon> from the payload, yes
[17:57] <mc-> how about activating the cutdown from the ground?
[17:57] <mc-> it would need a good receiver
[18:00] <jcoxon> that would require you to be in contact for a large period of time
[18:00] <jcoxon> in some ways its better if the payload runs the show
[18:03] <mc-> I was thinking that it could fire the cutdown when it loses contact with the ground, ie the ground always transmits to prevent the cutdown.
[18:05] <jcoxon> ooo have to dash
[18:06] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:32] <edmoore> back
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[21:07] <edmoore> hyperb seems to be having troubles
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[21:07] <edmoore> hi natrium42
[21:07] <edmoore> hyperb: having difficulties?
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[22:33] <jcoxon> evening all
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[00:00] --- Sun Jun 8 2008