highaltitude.log.20080530

[00:09] <akawaka> http://www.rense.com/general82/phoe.htm
[00:09] <akawaka> that'll cheer you up
[00:11] <Laurenceb> haha rense
[00:12] <Laurenceb> you dont read that do you?
[00:12] <akawaka> its my primary source of science news, why?
[00:12] <Laurenceb> "But those images broadcast more than 30 years ago from Mars were in COLOR. But not images in 2008! Who can believe this nonsense?"
[00:13] <natrium42> lol
[00:13] <natrium42> oh god
[00:13] <natrium42> people just don't understand color
[00:13] <Laurenceb> rense always cheers me up
[00:14] <Laurenceb> chemitrails :P
[00:14] <Laurenceb> haha "The Most Format & Content-Plagiarized Site On The Net"
[00:16] <Laurenceb> and this gem http://www.rense.com/general82/truthabout.htm
[00:39] <Laurenceb> http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/gods_dees.jpg
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[00:49] <Laurenceb> have you seen the weird white thing on thwe horizon?
[00:54] <akawaka> polar bear
[00:54] <akawaka> they said it was probably just a cosmic ray
[01:29] <Laurenceb> any comp sci people on here?
[01:29] <akawaka> yup
[01:29] <Laurenceb> whats a reversible oracle?
[01:29] <akawaka> never heard of it
[01:29] <Laurenceb> I know what an oracle is, but reversible?
[01:29] <akawaka> context?
[01:30] <akawaka> whats "an" oracle?
[01:30] <Laurenceb> you query the oracle and it replys with a yes no answer
[01:31] <Laurenceb> its a model used in databases, hence the sw company oracle
[01:34] <akawaka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_oracle
[01:34] <akawaka> i assume reversible oracle could be like a reversible hash
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[14:49] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[15:11] <jcoxon> hello edmoore
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[15:15] <jcoxon> how are things?
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[15:27] <edmoore> jcoxon: sorry was tripos questioning
[15:27] <edmoore> they're ok
[15:28] <edmoore> just discovering more stuff I don't know
[15:29] <jcoxon> pah, silly exams
[15:32] <jcoxon> my goliath arrived today
[15:32] <jcoxon> but at my parents home :(
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[16:08] <fuzzylugnut> hey folks
[16:08] <fuzzylugnut> what's up?
[16:13] <fuzzylugnut> not much I guess : 3
[16:17] <fuzzylugnut> when I get back from the road trip, I'm going to work on mating the OLIVIA source code to a getty of some sort
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[16:18] <fuzzylugnut> +1000000 to the gumstix folks for adding a cute little sound card to the AVR robostix board
[16:23] <edmoore> fuzzylugnut: there is life
[16:23] <fuzzylugnut> ?
[16:24] <edmoore> as in, I am here
[16:24] <fuzzylugnut> oh!
[16:24] <fuzzylugnut> hello then : )
[16:25] <edmoore> though revising :(
[16:25] <fuzzylugnut> ooh, UK finals weeks?
[16:30] <jcoxon> hey all
[16:31] <edmoore> mon-fri
[16:34] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[16:34] <edmoore> someone needs to launch something
[16:35] <fuzzylugnut> didn't akawaka launch that SBC a bit ago?
[16:36] <jcoxon> well now i have a goliath board :-p
[16:36] <jcoxon> just need to add a radio
[16:37] <edmoore> oooooo
[16:37] <fuzzylugnut> goliath board?
[16:37] <jcoxon> gumstix goliath
[16:37] <jcoxon> :-p
[16:38] <fuzzylugnut> Oh, did they release a new expansion board?
[16:38] <jcoxon> its a protoype
[16:38] <jcoxon> its gsm, gps, accelerometer, onboard
[16:39] <fuzzylugnut> awesome
[16:39] <jcoxon> its a very mythical board, was announced a year ago but it hasn't yet been released
[16:40] <fuzzylugnut> ahh
[16:40] <fuzzylugnut> very interesting
[16:40] <fuzzylugnut> somewhere I read that the corner antennas used by cell towers exclude anything at altitude
[16:41] <jcoxon> pretty much yeah
[16:41] <jcoxon> but its really useful for landing especially in the UK
[16:41] <jcoxon> with near 100% coverage
[16:41] <fuzzylugnut> that makes me a sad panda.
[16:41] <fuzzylugnut> that aspect is cool though
[16:42] <fuzzylugnut> I wish there was some slick way for high bandwidth link with the balloon at altitude
[16:42] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:42] <fuzzylugnut> how's absorption of 900mhz in atmosphere?
[16:43] <jcoxon> not sure
[16:44] <fuzzylugnut> I remember reading some dude's flight used a 900mhz serial link, and thye said it was aweful, but that could just be a matter of hardware and not frequency
[16:45] <jcoxon> oh that was natrium42's flight
[16:45] <jcoxon> it was also an antenna issue
[16:46] <fuzzylugnut> ahhhh, ok
[16:46] <jcoxon> i don't think absorption is an issues really
[16:46] <jcoxon> its more what power can be legally used
[16:46] <fuzzylugnut> Ah
[16:46] <fuzzylugnut> *isa ham*
[16:48] <jcoxon> in the UK the rules are sooo harsh
[16:48] <jcoxon> nothing over 10mW
[16:48] <fuzzylugnut> even for amateur?
[16:48] <jcoxon> yup
[16:48] <fuzzylugnut> damn!
[16:48] <jcoxon> we get by
[16:48] <fuzzylugnut> how can they do that : (
[16:49] <jcoxon> just means you have to be clever with the radio
[16:49] <jcoxon> some seriously good ranges have been got with 10mW radios
[16:49] <jcoxon> need a very good receiver - also why we use GSM for when its landed
[16:49] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, I bet. Do you use preamps on the receiver?
[16:50] <edmoore> I beleive so
[16:50] <jcoxon> we use a yaesu ft790r
[16:50] <edmoore> we've got 400km off a 300baud rtty
[16:50] <edmoore> pulse shaping the input at the balloon end
[16:51] <edmoore> on a 434mhz 10mW tx
[16:51] <edmoore> in theory it'll do more but 400km is a real world data point
[16:51] <edmoore> i.e. out to see when we lost nova2
[16:51] <edmoore> sea*
[16:51] <fuzzylugnut> that's pretty damn good
[16:52] <fuzzylugnut> what was the frequency separation of the rtty?
[16:53] <edmoore> hrm.......
[16:53] <edmoore> a k?
[16:53] <edmoore> i don't actually recall off the top of my head
[16:53] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[16:53] <edmoore> hang on will look it up
[16:54] <fuzzylugnut> thanks
[16:54] <edmoore> about 400hz
[16:55] <fuzzylugnut> Oh, ok
[16:55] <fuzzylugnut> that's some really cool telemetry ....muscles.
[16:56] <fuzzylugnut> http://www.digi.com/products/wireless/xtend.jsp?utm_source=google_us&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign=ppc_din_900mhz_boxed&gclid=CP7q6c3KzpMCFQyenAodGk1RjA
[16:58] <jcoxon> edmoore, i've worked out how to get pppd working on my gumstix so i'll be able to get the goliath board to connect and upload a kml of the flight :-p
[16:58] <fuzzylugnut> killer
[16:58] <jcoxon> though only on landing
[16:59] <edmoore> awesome!!
[17:02] <jcoxon> also once i add the webcam it'll be cool to upload photos of the landing site
[17:03] <jcoxon> (as well as transmitting them by radio while flying)
[17:03] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah
[17:03] <fuzzylugnut> that would be really neat
[17:03] <fuzzylugnut> the bandwidth would need to be kinda high though
[17:04] <jcoxon> oh inflight will be very crap images
[17:04] <jcoxon> but still images
[17:04] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah
[17:04] <jcoxon> still to be tested of course!
[17:04] <fuzzylugnut> have you guys seen the C328 camera?
[17:05] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:05] <jcoxon> very cool
[17:05] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah
[17:05] <edmoore> is that the canon?
[17:05] <fuzzylugnut> I'm not sure
[17:05] <jcoxon> its a rs232 camera
[17:07] <fuzzylugnut> http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2028/.f?sc=8&category=241
[17:07] <fuzzylugnut> there is a crapload of itsy bitsy cameras on that page
[17:09] <edmoore> oh cool
[17:10] <natrium42> i still say we make a tiny FPGA board with a few CMOS sensors :P
[17:10] <fuzzylugnut> I just switched to a gsm phone, and i don't have the internet package... ca I still use at as a phone - to phone modem?
[17:10] <fuzzylugnut> *it as a
[17:11] <jcoxon> fuzzylugnut, should be able to
[17:11] <jcoxon> what phone is it?
[17:12] <edmoore> natrium42: I listened
[17:12] <fuzzylugnut> nokia something
[17:12] <natrium42> edmoore, you are already making one?!
[17:12] <fuzzylugnut> I'll look for the model number
[17:12] <edmoore> no
[17:12] <edmoore> I'm just syaing, I listened
[17:12] <edmoore> whilst everyone else ignored :)
[17:13] <jcoxon> not really ignored!
[17:13] <edmoore> it would be cool, I agree. But not as cool as.... the ex+f1
[17:13] <jcoxon> just tis a little beyond me
[17:13] <natrium42> :P
[17:13] <fuzzylugnut> nokia 6085h, came with the plan. and yeah, that's beyond me too
[17:14] <jcoxon> fuzzylugnut, do you want to just dial up to the net using your laptop?
[17:15] <fuzzylugnut> I want to dial up a gsm modem connected to a gumstix so i have a terminal
[17:16] <jcoxon> from another phone?
[17:16] <jcoxon> asin
[17:16] <jcoxon> laptop --- phone <-----> phone --- gumstix
[17:16] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, from my phone, I can connect to it with bluetooth from my lapop
[17:16] <jcoxon> so yeah its quite doable
[17:17] <natrium42> bbl
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[17:17] <fuzzylugnut> sweet
[17:17] <jcoxon> you want to use pppd to make a ppp link over the phone
[17:17] <jcoxon> and that'll actually get you a network link
[17:17] <fuzzylugnut> on the gumstix side?
[17:17] <jcoxon> yu
[17:17] <jcoxon> p
[17:17] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[17:18] <fuzzylugnut> when I tried to do ATD (my phone number) it beeped at me and puked, what I'm worried about is that my cell plan is too limiting
[17:18] <jcoxon> in theory this ppp link can be done over a normal call :-p
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[17:19] <jcoxon> when you were setting up the AT commands quite often you need to change the mode before you do ATD numer
[17:19] <fuzzylugnut> Oooh ok
[17:19] <jcoxon> on my telit you need to do
[17:19] <jcoxon> AT+FCLASS=0
[17:19] <fuzzylugnut> I have no idea about AT commands
[17:19] <jcoxon> you'd need to look it up
[17:19] <fuzzylugnut> I see
[17:19] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[17:19] <jcoxon> get a directory of the AT commands
[17:19] <fuzzylugnut> very groovy
[17:20] <jcoxon> they are pretty standardised
[17:20] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[17:20] Action: jcoxon has been playing with AT commands for the last week
[17:20] <fuzzylugnut> sweet
[17:20] <fuzzylugnut> this channel is full of win
[17:20] <jcoxon> written a perl script to do sms messages via AT commands
[17:21] <fuzzylugnut> cool
[17:21] <fuzzylugnut> so on your computer, do you have a GUM> prompt or is it a network layer that requires telnet or ssh?
[17:22] <jcoxon> if you use pppd it'll be ssh
[17:22] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[17:22] <jcoxon> pppd is the old dialup technique
[17:23] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, I messed with it a while ago back when I only had dialup, but I forget alot about it
[17:23] <jcoxon> but its still maintained as its used for GPRS
[17:24] <fuzzylugnut> Ah, neat
[17:24] <fuzzylugnut> I'm still going to try the olivia terminal
[17:24] <fuzzylugnut> but once its on the ground the GSM would be nice.
[17:26] <jcoxon> nice board: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8689
[17:27] <fuzzylugnut> Nifty
[17:30] <edmoore> oooooooh
[17:30] <edmoore> ]that gsm/gps antenna could be *just* what we're looking for
[17:30] <fuzzylugnut> I wish I could dial the hotel here
[17:30] <jcoxon> not cheap but...
[17:31] <edmoore> yeah may stick with individual
[17:32] <edmoore> don't really like the idea of a gsm antenna being too close to a gps receiver
[17:32] <fuzzylugnut> frequencies too close?
[17:33] <jcoxon> gps modules are often quite sensitive to other signals
[17:34] <edmoore> not that, but any harmonics on a 2w gsm antenna will swamp a gps antenna
[17:34] <fuzzylugnut> awwww, ok
[17:35] <edmoore> and i think the low noise amplifier can be staurated by pretty much anything
[17:35] <edmoore> but rf is not my strong point so I'll not try and go any further
[17:36] <fuzzylugnut> my antenna absorbed the landing on the last launch
[17:36] <fuzzylugnut> it was all bent at a funny angle
[17:37] <edmoore> :s
[17:37] <edmoore> our antenna on the payload we're building now is embedded in a load of sponge
[17:37] <fuzzylugnut> mmmm, sponge
[17:37] <edmoore> the whole bottom of the payload is a downwards facing hemisphere of foam
[17:38] <edmoore> with the ground plane at the top and the antenna as a multi-core wire in the foam pointing down
[17:38] <edmoore> so it should always be vertical because of the elasticity of the foam
[17:39] <edmoore> and you wouldn't object too much to it landing on your face
[17:39] <fuzzylugnut> hahaha
[17:39] <jcoxon> on the landing will it fall on its side?
[17:39] <fuzzylugnut> thats pretty cool
[17:40] <edmoore> jcoxon: in theory!
[17:40] <edmoore> but if it doesn't, meh
[17:40] <jcoxon> gps antenna still facing the sky?
[17:40] <edmoore> but it should, and given the chute will make it land so that the antenna is pointing back at us, that's a good thing
[17:40] <edmoore> gps antenna will be stuck somewhere on the side... haven't really through it through I admit
[17:41] <jcoxon> would be awful to have radio reception but no gps
[17:41] <fuzzylugnut> at least that would allow for radiolocation
[17:42] <edmoore> the gps antenna will be on the top of the payload pointing up for the flight... landing so that it's on its side would be a tough one to fix
[17:42] <edmoore> it might be the case that it works on its side
[17:42] <edmoore> i mean it's last good fix should be fine for us anyway
[17:43] <edmoore> maybe we'll mount the telit's gps antenna at a slightly different loaction
[17:43] <jcoxon> yeah (just making sure :-D )
[17:43] <edmoore> it's our backup anyway if the lassen goes down
[17:43] <jcoxon> as when we just had gsm it was vital it landed the right way up
[17:44] <edmoore> do they definitely not get a lock if the patch antenna is on its side?
[17:45] <jcoxon> they can find it hard
[17:45] <fuzzylugnut> just 1 gps?
[17:45] <jcoxon> but of course they can
[17:46] <edmoore> fuzzylugnut: on our new flight computer we have a dedicated gps (lassen iQ, which works at alt) and we have a telit module with gps
[17:46] <edmoore> we were planning on using the telit's gps just as a backup
[17:46] <edmoore> two is one and one is none, as they say
[17:47] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah
[17:47] <edmoore> which is why we might stick two badger boards on it, infact!
[17:47] <fuzzylugnut> haha
[17:48] <fuzzylugnut> I trust the gumstix alot, but my tracking package is totally separate and redundant
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[17:50] <edmoore> yeah
[17:50] <edmoore> I mean it's just so frustrating to loose the thing when you no it's landed 'somewhere'
[17:50] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah!
[17:50] <fuzzylugnut> expensive too
[17:50] <jcoxon> tell me about it
[17:50] <edmoore> :p
[17:50] <jcoxon> ;-p
[17:50] <fuzzylugnut> Oh, Hiena
[17:50] <fuzzylugnut> http://lifebatt.com
[17:51] <Hiena> Good evening!
[17:51] <fuzzylugnut> for your UAV thingus
[17:53] <fuzzylugnut> they are expensive, but Lith-i-liciously non flammable
[17:53] <fuzzylugnut> I'm going to get the 12v, 40Ah pack when I get back
[17:54] <edmoore> wow - how heavy?
[17:54] <fuzzylugnut> 12, 10AH, 5lbs
[17:55] <fuzzylugnut> you can connect the battery to GSM and it will SMS you its charge status
[17:55] <edmoore> lol
[17:55] <fuzzylugnut> its like, a service they offer
[17:55] <fuzzylugnut> I want to hug them
[17:55] <edmoore> yeah, characterising the 'health' of lipos is something I need to look in to
[17:55] <fuzzylugnut> "Thank you for making this battery, here is 5 of my paychecks"
[17:55] <fuzzylugnut> omg
[17:55] <edmoore> we want to stick it in the telemetry frame
[17:56] <fuzzylugnut> Lipo's scare me
[17:56] <edmoore> we'll use protection!
[17:56] <edmoore> lipo blankets etc
[17:56] <fuzzylugnut> lipo plus rough rider condom
[17:57] <fuzzylugnut> I use the A123 cells, available in 1.1 and 2.3Ah, both at 3.3
[17:57] <edmoore> where do you buy them?
[17:58] <fuzzylugnut> the 1.1 cells are used in the black and decker VPX battery packs, and the 2.3Ah cells are in the Dewalt 36V battery packs
[17:58] <fuzzylugnut> you get 2 from the VPX and 10 from the dewalt
[17:58] <fuzzylugnut> both easy to dissasemble without vaporising the screwdriver
[17:59] <edmoore> lol
[17:59] <fuzzylugnut> the 2.3 cells can be discharged full capacity at 90A
[17:59] <edmoore> yeah this scares me a fair bit. Might need some sort of backup power source.
[18:00] <edmoore> we want capacity over discharge for the balloons atm, but the parafoil may need something more meaty
[18:00] <fuzzylugnut> hmm
[18:01] <fuzzylugnut> the AA energizer lithiums might be better suited, if you don't care about recharging. I don't know what thier capacity is, but its probably alot more than the rechargeavble ones
[18:01] <edmoore> will probably just stick with the li poly sachet ones and just treat 'em right!
[18:01] <fuzzylugnut> hehe
[18:01] <fuzzylugnut> yeah
[18:01] <fuzzylugnut> I stabbed some ones I was disposing of for fun
[18:02] <edmoore> I've designed a little fire blanket think which will also stop them expanding in low pressures
[18:02] <fuzzylugnut> they take quite a bit of abuse from non conducting implements
[18:02] <fuzzylugnut> Nifty
[18:03] <fuzzylugnut> I heart byonics.
[18:03] <edmoore> the power source is un-redundant though. And it's probably at the upper end of the 'likely to fail' scale of balloon components
[18:04] <fuzzylugnut> ahh
[18:04] <fuzzylugnut> my battery is unredundant as well
[18:04] <edmoore> just have to hope, i guess
[18:04] <fuzzylugnut> but I trust the A123's alot and have tested them with my stuff alot
[18:05] <edmoore> jcoxon: were you ever able to diagnose what cut out on fhalp 3?
[18:05] <Hiena> fuzzylugnut, I checked the prices, and a little bit out of our budget.
[18:05] <fuzzylugnut> Hiena: Ok, if you get a fat grant, they will be there for you
[18:06] <fuzzylugnut> I'll let you know how spoogetastic they are a few months from now
[18:06] <jcoxon> edmoore, no, but i wouln't be suprised if it was teh telit coming lose
[18:06] <fuzzylugnut> *will be on a 6week road trip this summer*
[18:07] <Hiena> Oh sure, but i guess, you really has no idea about my salary. ;)
[18:07] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, i don't
[18:08] <fuzzylugnut> I'm really enjoying my federal job
[18:08] <edmoore> I'm really not enjoying my degree
[18:08] <fuzzylugnut> what is your degree?
[18:08] <edmoore> actually that's a lie, I love it. But right now i want to slit my wrists
[18:09] <edmoore> Engineering
[18:09] <edmoore> which as of next year will get a prefix
[18:09] <fuzzylugnut> remember to go down the road, not across the street
[18:09] <edmoore> but the first two years are general
[18:09] <Hiena> Whats wrong with the engineering?
[18:09] <edmoore> oh nothing, it's the associated exams!
[18:09] <edmoore> cambridge just dies in the weeks up to exams
[18:09] <edmoore> it's just stressed people being stressed
[18:09] <fuzzylugnut> I took the easy way out, health physics
[18:10] <edmoore> tumble-weed in the streets
[18:10] <edmoore> sweaty libraries crammed, with people still in there at 6am
[18:10] <edmoore> it's just a crap time to be here
[18:10] <fuzzylugnut> at least you should get a sweet job out of it
[18:11] <edmoore> Can only hope. And I get to specialise next year which I'm really looking forward to
[18:11] <Hiena> Yeah, and not will stuck at the wrong end of the soldering iron.
[18:12] <fuzzylugnut> BS or MS?
[18:13] <edmoore> BA + MEng
[18:13] <edmoore> don't ask.
[18:15] <edmoore> Hiena: surely being at the wrong end of a soldering iron is torture?
[18:16] <Hiena> Oh yeah. And the soldering iron has no good ens.
[18:16] <Hiena> -s+d
[18:18] <Hiena> If you have no engineering degree, you have withstand every stupidity from the freshly graduated engineers up to the, "i know everything, because i have a PhD." mentallity.
[18:19] <edmoore> Heh, I think you get that during your degree too
[18:19] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, there is alot to be learned about real life experience
[18:21] <edmoore> as an example during my gap year, I got a good intutitive grasp of basic control theory and tuning up control systems, taking transfer functions and so on, as i was working for a company that does magnetic levitation bearings
[18:21] <edmoore> and i sometimes realise that having been taught it since academicaly on my course, if that's all I had to go on, I'd be screwed
[18:22] <edmoore> you just don't get that intuition
[18:22] <edmoore> it's all formulas and abstract concepts
[18:22] <fuzzylugnut> do you mess with PLCs at all?
[18:23] <edmoore> went on a profibus course working for the same company, if that counts
[18:23] <edmoore> probably doesn't, though...
[18:23] <edmoore> so no, i guess not
[18:24] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[18:24] <fuzzylugnut> http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/dsheets/i9600.pdf
[18:24] <fuzzylugnut> I love radiometrix
[18:25] <fuzzylugnut> they should be doing a press release of the flight computer and serial link I did for the last launch soon
[18:25] <edmoore> oooh nice
[18:26] <edmoore> does this mean you get free radiometrix modules?
[18:26] <fuzzylugnut> the US distributor Lemos Inc gave us a buy 1 get one free for the UHX one, and they footed the cost
[18:27] <fuzzylugnut> so i have a bunch of radiometrix and lemos stickers to plaster on my payloads
[18:27] <edmoore> popcorn and chopsticks?
[18:27] <fuzzylugnut> yah
[18:27] <edmoore> awesome :D
[18:27] <fuzzylugnut> : ) I love backwards video
[18:28] <edmoore> oh.....
[18:28] <edmoore> cunning
[18:28] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, I didn't have all those in my mouth
[18:31] <edmoore> fair enough
[18:31] <edmoore> hrmmm, nearly curry time
[18:32] <fuzzylugnut> mmm, curry
[18:33] <edmoore> curry and Peep Show
[18:33] <edmoore> what more could an evening need
[18:33] <fuzzylugnut> I gave some of the balloon group guys all my silicon special affects stuff, in turn I asked for a leg of lamb
[18:33] <edmoore> :)
[18:33] <fuzzylugnut> Its a good job, I'm not going to rape him.....I could rape him....I'm not going to rape him
[18:33] <edmoore> it's a hand to mouth existance
[18:34] <edmoore> knowing wink
[18:34] <fuzzylugnut> ;3
[18:36] <fuzzylugnut> I love national lab auctions
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[18:37] <edmoore> what joys do you get?
[18:37] <fuzzylugnut> everything from turbo pumps to RFI shielded rack enclouses are there
[18:37] <fuzzylugnut> I have to restrain myself
[18:37] <fuzzylugnut> I don't have an apartment yet
[18:38] <fuzzylugnut> well, i do, but I can't move in until june 14ths
[18:38] <edmoore> did you see the missile silo control panel with lamp-buttons?
[18:38] <edmoore> it's the collest thing ever. we so need one for ballooning
[18:38] <edmoore> I want my buttons to have light
[18:38] <edmoore> so so much
[18:38] <fuzzylugnut> hahahhaa
[18:38] <edmoore> I think I might make one for my car
[18:39] <edmoore> I'd have to put missiles on it
[18:39] <edmoore> but that's ok, I can do that
[18:39] <fuzzylugnut> *darwin award*
[18:39] <edmoore> but you'd have flashing button control panels with you
[18:40] <edmoore> it'd go with you to the afterlife
[18:40] <edmoore> so you'd be fine
[18:42] <fuzzylugnut> and the machine that goes "Bing!"
[18:42] <edmoore> we have one already
[18:42] <edmoore> the microwave
[18:43] <Hiena> edmoore, if you not put a missiles to your car, at least put a rocket engines as i do. ;)
[18:43] <edmoore> how cool would it be to overtake someone on the motorway and fire up an M motor as you go past
[18:43] <edmoore> I wonder if that's road-legal....
[18:44] <Hiena> Nope. But hey, we have to test the flame stabilisers at low speed.
[18:44] <edmoore> this is true!
[18:46] <Hiena> When i sent my previous car to the scrapyard and removed the rig from the top, i noticed the roof was discolored on the same line as the heat shild was aligned.
[18:46] <Hiena> Khm...shield...
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[18:50] <fuzzylugnut> Ok, question for all you folks
[18:51] <fuzzylugnut> We have the capability for bi-directional communication with the flight computer, GSM, ADC ports, and all that crap, but what can we DO while the balloon is up there?
[18:51] <fuzzylugnut> what exciting thing can we do, besides take temperature and pressure and acceleration data?
[18:51] <fuzzylugnut> there must be some goal to reach
[18:52] <jcoxon> altitude
[18:52] <jcoxon> rocket
[18:52] <jcoxon> ummm
[18:52] <jcoxon> balloon to balloon comms
[18:52] <fuzzylugnut> launch 2?
[18:52] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:52] <Hiena> Launching a rocket?
[18:52] <jcoxon> from a balloon
[18:53] <fuzzylugnut> rockoons!
[18:53] <jcoxon> indeed
[18:53] <Hiena> Yup.
[18:53] <fuzzylugnut> that play ACDC
[18:53] <fuzzylugnut> er
[18:53] <fuzzylugnut> ;_; aerosmith
[18:53] <jcoxon> control the pictures so you can move the camera to take pictures of things
[18:53] <Hiena> For example making a rocket, with a lightweight telemetry, and using the balloon as relay.
[18:54] <fuzzylugnut> That would be cool
[18:54] <fuzzylugnut> some sort of stabalization setup
[18:54] <jcoxon> if we launch a balloon, you launch a balloon - see if they can get comms
[18:54] <fuzzylugnut> OOoh, I see
[18:54] <fuzzylugnut> if its VHF, I'd think no
[18:54] <fuzzylugnut> on HF, maybe
[18:55] <Hiena> Or using two balloons as relays.
[18:55] <jcoxon> try and maintain a balloon in a particular place
[18:55] <fuzzylugnut> like repeaters?
[18:55] <fuzzylugnut> ahh
[18:55] <fuzzylugnut> hmm
[18:55] <fuzzylugnut> good ideas
[18:55] <jcoxon> we could design a standard repeater payload
[18:55] <fuzzylugnut> how about neutral bouyancy
[18:55] <jcoxon> and see if you could create a network
[18:55] <jcoxon> could be used for emergency situations
[18:56] <Hiena> BAN = Balloon Area Network.
[18:56] <fuzzylugnut> hahahaha
[18:56] <jcoxon> neutral bouyancy + stabalising the payload so it resists the wind? - low level satelite
[18:57] <fuzzylugnut> up there at 80+ kft, there isn't much wind, is there?
[18:57] <jcoxon> still to be confirmed
[18:57] <jcoxon> :-p
[18:57] <fuzzylugnut> haha, ok
[18:57] <jcoxon> but there is a lot less at lest
[18:57] <fuzzylugnut> yeah
[18:57] <jcoxon> if you look at the launches they don't drift much at the top, pretty much go straight up
[18:57] <Hiena> Btw, i thought to use the balloon as reflector covering half hemisphere with a tinfoil and placing a dipole inside it.
[18:57] <fuzzylugnut> yeah
[18:58] <jcoxon> h
[18:58] <jcoxon> Hiena, it wouldn't expand very well
[18:58] <fuzzylugnut> yeah
[18:58] <fuzzylugnut> you'd be flying a hernia
[18:58] <fuzzylugnut> which has its own entertainment value, but still.
[18:59] <Hiena> Well, the idea is using an oversized tinfoil mesh.
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[18:59] <fuzzylugnut> I'd love to launch 2 balloons and have them take pictures of eachother
[19:01] <fuzzylugnut> I'd also love to send up a sattelite with a gumstix on it
[19:02] <fuzzylugnut> it seems like going from the HAB to sattelite would be the natural step
[19:04] <fuzzylugnut> maybe give NSF a hummer for grant money
[19:10] <fuzzylugnut> ooh... I said that instead of thinking it
[19:10] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:11] <fuzzylugnut> jcoxon: you do really significant launches, don't you?
[19:12] <jcoxon> ummmm not really :-)
[19:12] <jcoxon> i occasionally test things out
[19:12] <jcoxon> and they don't work
[19:12] <fuzzylugnut> oh
[19:12] <jcoxon> but i've done quite a few launches
[19:13] <fuzzylugnut> wasn't it you that went to some country to help with crazy launches?
[19:13] <jcoxon> oh i've launched zero pressure balloons in Africa
[19:13] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah, thats what I was thinking of
[19:14] <jcoxon> this summer i'm hoping to do some cool launches
[19:14] <jcoxon> and we've been working (slowly) on Atlas
[19:14] <jcoxon> for the altitude record attempt
[19:15] <jcoxon> so hopefully they'll be significant :-)
[19:15] <fuzzylugnut> what is the current record?
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[19:15] <jcoxon> 120,522ft
[19:15] <fuzzylugnut> jumpin' tittysprinkles! That's high
[19:16] <fuzzylugnut> out highest was 93
[19:16] <fuzzylugnut> mostly they pop ~85
[19:16] <jcoxon> oh thts not our record
[19:16] <fuzzylugnut> but our payloads are 10-12 pounds
[19:16] <jcoxon> but we are planning on attempting it
[19:17] <fuzzylugnut> Cool
[19:17] <fuzzylugnut> whats the plan of attack?
[19:17] <jcoxon> ultra light payload, dual ballloons
[19:18] <fuzzylugnut> 2 balloons?
[19:18] <jcoxon> yup
[19:19] <fuzzylugnut> usually you have to pay double for that kind of action
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[19:19] <jcoxon> haha
[19:20] <fuzzylugnut> btw, the military surplus balloons I got have a big nipple on top so you could chain the balloons together if you want, to keep the string from one from cutting the other
[19:21] <Hiena> Hmmm...How about a twin balloon with a divided communication, and different pressure? The first one pop at about 80k but the second with a lighter payload could lift higher.
[19:21] <jcoxon> to get a good altitude yu'll need as new as possible balloons
[19:21] <fuzzylugnut> ahhh ok
[19:21] <fuzzylugnut> these are 20 years old and yellow
[19:21] <jcoxon> Hiena, we are just using one payload but 2 balloons ,set up that way
[19:21] <fuzzylugnut> but they are still sexy
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[19:24] <fuzzylugnut> btw, the hydrogen worked really well
[19:24] <fuzzylugnut> 18lbs of lift from 400ft^3
[19:25] <fuzzylugnut> and we got to dress up in nomex coveralls and get grounded
[19:27] <jcoxon> amazing
[19:27] <jcoxon> i;'m stil scared oh Hydrogen
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[19:28] <fuzzylugnut> when you fill, you know how the balloon neck squeels sometimes?
[19:28] <jcoxon> yup
[19:28] <fuzzylugnut> it did that and all of us jumped about a foot when we were filling
[19:29] <fuzzylugnut> but opening up the bed of the truck and seeing 3 nice big red tanks was quite stimulatiing
[19:29] <fuzzylugnut> we only used 2
[19:30] <Hiena> Ehem. 2 for a laungh, one for the party. ;)
[19:30] <fuzzylugnut> hehehe
[19:30] <Hiena> -g+c
[19:31] <fuzzylugnut> "I've got a big red one!"
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[19:40] <fuzzylugnut> AHHAHHAHAHAA
[19:40] <fuzzylugnut> spelling error on the lifebatt spec sheet
[19:40] <fuzzylugnut> "counted" was spelled "cunted"
[19:41] <fuzzylugnut> I suppose its not that funny, but I'm a dirty animal.
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[20:19] <fuzzylugnut> I read that "appetizer" and bad waves of paranoia came through from the mushroom and mustard experience last night.
[20:24] <appletizer> lol, sorry i'm more meant as the fizzy apple drink, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appletiser
[20:27] <fuzzylugnut> sounds tasty
[20:28] <Hiena> Never mind. We does a lot of typos due the oxygen deprivation. ;)
[20:29] <fuzzylugnut> <.< >.> Yeah, that's it
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[20:34] <fuzzylugnut> damn! radiometrix has loads of awesome RF stuff.
[20:38] Action: fuzzylugnut looks for a transceiver for the OLIVA project
[20:43] <fuzzylugnut> hmmm, it seems like all the radiometrix ones don't take AF modulation
[20:43] <fuzzylugnut> but Byonics uses the HX1 for afsk APRS transmitting
[20:44] <fuzzylugnut> so I am confused
[20:51] <fuzzylugnut> nm
[21:11] <Hiena> Ehem... Got a phone call from my pal. He said: "You forgot something at me. And this song will remind it." And he started to play the "Nightcore-Breath without you". I was puzzled for a moment and said : "Damn, the reductor..."
[21:13] <fuzzylugnut> nut :)
[21:19] <fuzzylugnut> I need a good bogen tripod
[21:20] <fuzzylugnut> my walmart special goes all creaky and limp with the arrow antenna mounted on it
[21:20] <akawaka> hmmm
[21:22] <fuzzylugnut> http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/tx1mrx1m.htm
[21:22] <fuzzylugnut> I'm going to make a transciever out of the tx and rx modules and an rf switch.
[21:22] <Hiena> fuzzylugnut, add some weight to the anchor hook.
[21:23] <fuzzylugnut> I do, its that the shoe wants to pop out
[21:23] <fuzzylugnut> no room for a counterweight, unfortunatly
[21:24] <fuzzylugnut> think of a camera on the tripod with a really long lens, it wants to pry out of the shoe holder
[21:24] <fuzzylugnut> so I need a good metal one that has balls.
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[22:04] <fuzzylugnut> I wonder if its easy to get a file off a remote pc with kermit
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[22:10] <fuzzylugnut> jcoxon: radiometrix delivers again http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/rpm3.htm
[22:10] <fuzzylugnut> I'm going to put a bidirectional amp on it and use it for high bandwidth
[22:10] <jcoxon> cool
[22:10] <jcoxon> wrong freq for us :(
[22:12] <jcoxon> radiometrix are amazing
[22:12] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah, I love them
[22:12] <fuzzylugnut> so why can't you hope on 33cm with one of these?
[22:12] <fuzzylugnut> if you have a ham license you should be able to use watts if you wanted
[22:13] <jcoxon> sure if you are a ham you can if you are on the ground
[22:13] <jcoxon> thre are different rules for anything in the air
[22:14] <fuzzylugnut> oooooh, I see
[22:14] <jcoxon> very strict rules
[22:14] <fuzzylugnut> : (
[22:14] <fuzzylugnut> lame
[22:14] <jcoxon> oh well, just means we have to be invovative
[22:14] <fuzzylugnut> how about begging forgiveness instead of asking permission?
[22:15] <jcoxon> hehe, we don't want to upset us or they'll withdraw our launch permission
[22:15] <jcoxon> upset them*
[22:16] <akawaka> england sucks
[22:16] <akawaka> there, i said it
[22:16] <akawaka> fuzzylugnut: how many watts out of that thing?
[22:17] <fuzzylugnut> the module puts out 10mw, but with the M68757H amp module arranged in a bi-directional amp setup, you can get multiple watts
[22:17] <jcoxon> akawaka, ouch
[22:18] <jcoxon> it ain't the best place for balloons - launching uncontrolled payloads on an island where you are never more then 70 miles from the sea
[22:18] <jcoxon> bbl
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[22:18] <fuzzylugnut> these guys http://www.rflambda.com/product_list.jsp?catalog=4092 make great rf switches
[22:19] <fuzzylugnut> so a bi-directional should be easy to build
[22:19] <akawaka> been looking for decent rf amps
[22:19] <fuzzylugnut> :D
[22:20] <fuzzylugnut> www.rfparts.com
[22:20] <fuzzylugnut> they sell everything from 1 to 60W amp modules
[22:20] <akawaka> ah
[22:20] <akawaka> wow
[22:20] <akawaka> great site
[22:21] <fuzzylugnut> just be sure to filter the begeezes out of your supply pins so stray RF doesn't mess up everything else that your running
[22:25] <fuzzylugnut> when I get back from th road trip and start work, I will be devoting all my "hobby time" to the balloon projects..
[22:26] <fuzzylugnut> which are the OLIVIA terminal, this high bandwidth links, real time TNC_to_google earth tracking, and more gumstix stuff
[22:29] <fuzzylugnut> and once I figure out this newfangled wiki stuff, I'll post it that way
[22:31] <fuzzylugnut> ok, laters, off to hunt down some dinner
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[22:51] <fuzzylugnu1> kiiiiiiiiiiiiil meeeeeeeeeee
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[22:55] <fuzzylugnut> I feel irc-tarded
[22:55] <fuzzylugnut> and my french onion soup has no cheese in it
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[23:36] Action: fuzzylugnut yawns.
[23:38] <fuzzylugnut> the sunblade i got at the auction today has a smartcard reader/writer in it
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[23:51] <fuzzylugnut> I wonder if it is hard to create a device in linux
[23:53] <fuzzylugnut> like, make something like a serial device, but have the IO pushed through the stdio of a program I make
[23:57] <akawaka> fuzzylugnut: FUSE
[23:57] <fuzzylugnut> ?
[23:57] <fuzzylugnut> elaborate?
[23:58] <fuzzylugnut> ooh
[23:58] <fuzzylugnut> but how would that help me?
[23:59] <fuzzylugnut> OH
[23:59] <fuzzylugnut> hahahhahaha!
[23:59] <akawaka> its really awesome
[23:59] <fuzzylugnut> that is so freekin cool
[23:59] <akawaka> johan made a usb breakout board with 10 digital and 10 analog io pins
[23:59] <fuzzylugnut> that is like... exactly what I was looking for
[00:00] --- Sat May 31 2008