highaltitude.log.20080414

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[04:51] <Kornholijo> natrium42: I just saw your flight2, "pure pwnage"
[04:52] <natrium42> thanks :)
[04:52] <akawaka> heh
[04:53] <Kornholijo> :P
[04:53] <Kornholijo> polish?
[04:53] <akawaka> as far as picture quality goes it is definitely the one to beat
[04:53] <Kornholijo> yeah
[04:53] <natrium42> no, canadian/russian
[04:53] <Kornholijo> ah
[04:54] <Kornholijo> I dont think they allow such stuff in us ;/
[04:54] <akawaka> course they do
[04:54] <natrium42> there are many people doing it in US
[04:54] <natrium42> akawaka is one
[04:54] <natrium42> :)
[04:54] <akawaka> yay!
[04:54] <Kornholijo> :D
[04:54] <akawaka> Kornholijo: http://www.boredgamedeveloper.com/high_altitude/index.php/1_-_Pong
[04:55] <Kornholijo> you should use packet radio for stuff
[04:55] <Kornholijo> i dont think its that heavy
[04:55] Action: natrium42 is getting radio license soonish
[04:55] Action: Kornholijo alredy got technician 2 days ago <3
[04:55] <akawaka> we used packet radio to send aprs location info
[04:55] <natrium42> cool, congrats
[04:55] <akawaka> congrats
[04:55] <akawaka> got mine about a month ago
[04:55] <akawaka> ki6pfw
[04:55] <Kornholijo> heh
[04:55] <Kornholijo> i dont have mine cs yet
[04:55] <akawaka> for the balloon project
[04:56] <akawaka> we were going to use packet radio to communicate with the balloon
[04:56] <akawaka> but never got it working reliably
[04:56] <akawaka> probably due to the crappy sound hardware in the flight computer
[04:56] <Kornholijo> bah
[04:57] <Kornholijo> i tried general but missed it by 3 questions, didnt study tho
[04:58] <Kornholijo> natrium42: you should try to remove casing etc from like the hub and flashdrive, maybe make it more compact and add more padding, better than the plastic casing of teh "stuff"
[04:59] <natrium42> yah, didn't really try to go light with that one
[05:00] <natrium42> akawaka, we had two follow cars, so we put a linksys ap onto the roof of one
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[05:00] <natrium42> and send the coordinates to the second car
[05:00] <natrium42> running google earth
[05:00] <natrium42> was teh awesome :)
[05:03] <akawaka> i don't understand how this camera module can have a range of external clock input frequencies
[05:03] <akawaka> this datasheet is really incomplete
[05:04] <natrium42> an OV sensor?
[05:04] <akawaka> http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Sensors/Imaging/TCM8230MD.pdf
[05:05] <akawaka> ov?
[05:05] <natrium42> omnivision
[05:08] <akawaka> probably 24Mhz
[05:08] <akawaka> worried thats gonna be too fast for the pic to deal with
[05:09] <natrium42> yes, you also need to buffer the image somewhere
[05:10] <akawaka> was hoping just to write it directly the the sd card
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[05:11] <akawaka> using on of the higher end pic24s
[05:11] <natrium42> might be doable
[05:12] <akawaka> dma from the input port, while dma-ing out to the sdcard
[05:12] <akawaka> but i think it will take 2 clock cycles to pull the data from the input port
[05:12] <akawaka> definitely at least 2 if i use PMP
[05:13] <natrium42> perhaps a small FPGA would be better?
[05:13] <natrium42> perhaps an actel one so that you don't need many external parts
[05:14] <akawaka> johan was thinking down that road
[05:14] <natrium42> we should design such a board with a few of those cameras...
[05:14] <natrium42> for multiple angles
[05:15] <akawaka> yeah, hoping to fly with a few
[05:17] <akawaka> http://www.lems.brown.edu/~dec/docs/fpga_camera.pdf
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[05:32] <Kornholijo> how much the helium costs
[05:33] <Kornholijo> and what grade is it?
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[05:38] <natrium42> around $100
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[12:54] <jatkins> hi all
[13:01] <Laurenceb> hello
[13:02] <Laurenceb> edmoore: you about?
[13:02] <Laurenceb> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/benchmarks.html
[13:03] <Laurenceb> ^ I've just used that to look at my kalman filter, I got 19000 clock cycles, so it should run nicely :P
[13:06] <edmoore> cool
[13:06] <Laurenceb> less than a millisecond at 20MHz
[13:08] <Laurenceb> the limiting factor will actually be the melexis gyro, it takes a couple of milliseconds
[13:12] <Laurenceb> http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/46827/1207859076/cernlhc.png
[13:18] <edmoore> what's the approximate weight altitude relationship for balloons?
[13:18] <edmoore> say you have a data point (2kg to 30km) what the approx relationship to calc where to get 1kg?
[13:18] <edmoore> ignoring burst diameters and the like
[13:20] <Laurenceb> well
[13:20] <Laurenceb> air density is an exponential decay
[13:20] <Laurenceb> (roughtly)
[13:21] <Laurenceb> and balloons pop at a roughly fixed diameter
[13:21] <Laurenceb> so heavier payload= put in more helium
[13:22] <Laurenceb> I guess it depends on the balloon mass as well
[13:24] <edmoore> that's the most thorough non answer ever :p
[13:24] <edmoore> I'll try and fit a curve
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[13:34] <Laurenceb> hello
[13:49] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:parafoil_main
[13:59] <edmoore> may aswell just make it your username, laurence
[14:00] <edmoore> would save the ctrl+c buttons being worn out
[14:02] <Laurenceb> Sorry I was excited
[14:02] <Laurenceb> almost finished :D
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[14:13] <edmoore> what's left to do?
[14:14] <Laurenceb> well I've just setup the printf filestream
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[14:15] <Laurenceb> the eeprom isnt used correctly, and I want to add a watchdog timer
[14:15] <Laurenceb> also make it store the current flight status in EEPROM so it can recover more easily from any problems
[14:16] <Laurenceb> its just under 13KB atm
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[15:09] <jatkins> hi all
[15:16] <Laurenceb> ello
[15:18] <jatkins> just been thinking about radar reflectors..
[15:18] <jatkins> if I covered my payload in aluminium foil, would it reflect radar?
[15:19] <jatkins> or does it have to be in the shape of a normal radar reflector?
[15:20] <Laurenceb> it would reflect radar
[15:20] <jatkins> ok
[15:20] <Laurenceb> but not necessarily in the direction you want
[15:21] <Laurenceb> its just like a mirror
[15:21] <jatkins> so it might not reflect back to air traffic control?
[15:21] <Laurenceb> correct
[15:21] <jatkins> ok, thanks
[15:21] <jatkins> won't try that then ;)
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[15:37] <edmoore> jatkins: anything is better than nothing, but as I mentioned with the snooker analogy, it's specifically about those 90degree corners that makes the radio waves reflect back in the direction they came from
[15:38] <jatkins> ok
[15:38] <jatkins> thanks
[15:39] <Laurenceb> your payload will actually be a similar size to the radar wavelenght
[15:39] <jatkins> ok
[15:40] <Laurenceb> so you can model it using - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_dipole_approximation
[15:41] <Laurenceb> :P
[15:41] <jatkins> cool, thanks
[15:41] <Laurenceb> lol
[15:41] <Laurenceb> my point is that there will be some scattering off anything metallic
[15:41] <jatkins> ok
[15:41] <Laurenceb> as it acts like an antenna to absorp the radiation then reradiate it
[15:42] <Laurenceb> but a corner cube reflector will work best
[15:43] <jatkins> ok
[15:48] <Laurenceb> parafoil code is finished :D
[15:59] <edmoore> good job
[15:59] <Laurenceb> 15.1KB
[15:59] <Laurenceb> just fits
[15:59] <Laurenceb> now I need to build some hardware to run it on
[16:02] <edmoore> always the fun bit
[16:02] <edmoore> any idea on servos?
[16:03] <Laurenceb> maybe a winch one...
[16:03] <Laurenceb> something off ebay
[16:04] <Laurenceb> how did your parafoil work?
[16:04] <Laurenceb> I'm not sure how to avoid the risk of the lines coming off the "rotor"
[16:11] <Laurenceb> if you've just got brake lines, you cant have them under tensoin all the time
[16:13] <edmoore> you can
[16:13] <edmoore> in thoery
[16:13] <edmoore> sort of
[16:13] <edmoore> i mean they'll always be under tension if you're generating lift
[16:14] <edmoore> basically there are two types of turn you can do, as ffar as i can tell
[16:14] <edmoore> a draggy one with break lines
[16:14] <edmoore> or a more low energy turn by pulling and entire side down and shifting the CoG
[16:14] <edmoore> like a paraglider would
[16:14] <edmoore> but i don't think that's possible really for one servo
[16:14] <edmoore> maybe it is
[16:15] <Laurenceb> just use a winch servo
[16:15] <Laurenceb> then have the payload suspended from it
[16:15] <Laurenceb> problem is the payload can swing fore and aft a lot
[16:16] <edmoore> it can, there's not much you can do about that
[16:16] <edmoore> it's a bit of a nightmare compared to fixed wing
[16:17] <edmoore> your imu isn't really coupled to the wing, it's dangling beneath on wobbly lines
[16:17] <edmoore> yada yada yada. not all that easy
[16:17] <edmoore> but cool!
[16:17] <edmoore> if I come across a good parafoil, I'll let you know. The kite-like ones don't seem to have a very lifty profile
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[16:19] <Laurenceb> yours didnt look too good
[16:20] <Laurenceb> hrmf how do I make printf accept 32 bit floats?
[16:22] <edmoore> maybe cast it as an int and send the 4 bytes?
[16:23] <Laurenceb> hmm
[16:23] <Laurenceb> I'll cast it as double
[16:24] <edmoore> that's what I mean
[16:24] <edmoore> sorry
[16:24] <Laurenceb> k
[16:24] <Laurenceb> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Parafoil-Kite-140cm-x-54cm-with-Bum-Bag-Case_W0QQitemZ180232161496QQihZ008QQcategoryZ137898QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[16:24] <Laurenceb> ^ how about that?
[16:27] <edmoore> gotta be worth a try
[16:27] <edmoore> although it's quite big
[16:28] <Laurenceb> I'll use a rogallo then :D
[16:28] <edmoore> lol
[16:29] <edmoore> well it'd be good to get that working
[16:29] <Laurenceb> unfortunately if I wanted to use this code I'd have to rp out all the tronics
[16:33] <edmoore> why?
[16:33] <Laurenceb> hmm well its a two avr setup
[16:33] <Laurenceb> with bit banged spi
[16:34] <Laurenceb> ../main.c:156: warning: passing argument 1 of 'predict_and_update' discards qualifiers from pointer target type
[16:34] <Laurenceb> ^ any idea whats going on there?
[16:35] <edmoore> code?
[16:36] <Laurenceb> our_state=predict_and_update(&our_state,&our_model,&control_vector,&measurement_vector);
[16:36] <Laurenceb> kalman filter stuff
[16:37] <edmoore> IS THAT ALL IN THE CODE YOU POSTED LAST?
[16:37] <edmoore> whoops
[16:37] <Laurenceb> its on the wiki
[16:38] <Laurenceb> same warning for argument 2
[16:44] <Laurenceb> is it a problem with it being volatile?
[16:45] <edmoore> I'm not sure, having a look
[16:45] <edmoore> I'm not great at debugging other people's code. Don't have much of a head for it
[16:51] <edmoore> why is everything on the wiki now edited by (external edit)
[16:51] <edmoore> ?
[16:51] <Laurenceb> dunno
[16:52] <Laurenceb> it has my username at the bottom
[16:53] <edmoore> I think it must have been pre-server move stuff
[16:54] <Laurenceb> ok, apparently its not a problem
[16:54] <Laurenceb> basically you cant have a volatile pointer
[16:54] <Laurenceb> as that doesnt make sense right
[16:55] <Laurenceb> so its just warning me that the "volatile" qualifier is removed when you make it a pointer
[16:56] <edmoore> warnings are ok, still not entirely sure why it is one though
[17:11] <Laurenceb> I think its just a result of the way GCC was written, "qualifers" are just general things assigned to variables
[17:12] <Laurenceb> if one is removed, there's a warning
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[18:01] <Hiena> Good evening!
[18:14] <natrium42> Hi-ena!
[18:17] <edmoore> oh very good
[18:18] <natrium42> lol
[18:19] <edmoore> how's it going natrium42 and Hiena ?
[18:19] <natrium42> pretty good, you?
[18:19] <natrium42> i am supposed to be studying for exams
[18:19] <Laurenceb> lol me too
[18:20] <Laurenceb> most of us are :D
[18:20] <Laurenceb> when are your exams?
[18:20] <natrium42> i already had 2
[18:20] <natrium42> finished the one today 1 hour earlier (but it was German...)
[18:21] <natrium42> tomorrow is applied math
[18:21] <Laurenceb> how did it go?
[18:21] <Laurenceb> german?
[18:21] <natrium42> easy
[18:21] <natrium42> very easy
[18:21] <Laurenceb> is that something your studying as a seperate course?
[18:21] <natrium42> it's an elective
[18:21] <natrium42> just need a few easy courses for better GPA
[18:21] <natrium42> :)
[18:22] <Laurenceb> ok, different terminology to over here
[18:24] <edmoore> what are you majoring in?
[18:24] <natrium42> computer science
[18:25] <Laurenceb> over here the German wouldnt be counted towards your overall score
[18:26] <Laurenceb> what GPA?
[18:26] <Laurenceb> *what is
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[18:26] <natrium42> grand point average
[18:26] <natrium42> i have required courses as well as electives
[18:27] <natrium42> but the electives have to meet certain requirements
[18:27] <Laurenceb> interesting
[18:27] <natrium42> either i go for breadth or for depth
[18:27] <Laurenceb> in the UK its usually much simpler
[18:27] <natrium42> for depth you have to take a sequence of the same course for up to 3rd year
[18:27] <natrium42> etc
[18:27] <Laurenceb> we only have a small set of "modules" to choose from
[18:28] <natrium42> i see
[18:28] <Laurenceb> e.g. this year there are 4, of which you have to study 3
[18:28] <natrium42> but can you choose any courses?
[18:28] <natrium42> i.e. any freedom?
[18:28] <Laurenceb> just your choice of modules
[18:29] <Laurenceb> hang on I got that one wrong, there are 6 modules all together
[18:29] <Laurenceb> so you have a bit of choice in your final year
[18:30] <Laurenceb> its very different for different universitys and courses
[18:30] <natrium42> right
[18:30] <Laurenceb> but tends to be similar to what I've described
[18:31] <Laurenceb> so I've chosen quantum computing, atmospheric physics and a project
[18:31] <natrium42> great choice :)
[18:32] <Laurenceb> very good for ballooning :D
[18:33] <natrium42> pizza->time(now);
[18:33] <Laurenceb> is that valid code?
[18:33] <Laurenceb> time is a function...
[18:33] <Laurenceb> oh c++ ?
[18:38] <edmoore> natrium42: it varies a lot from university to university
[18:38] <edmoore> in my final year, I have a choice of about 50 modules, 8 of which I choose
[18:39] <Laurenceb> wow, not bad
[18:39] <edmoore> but that's sort of bye the bye, but the uk system doesn't really hve majors or minors
[18:39] <edmoore> just majors
[18:39] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:39] <edmoore> I'm not sure if that's a good thing
[18:39] <edmoore> but it's what happens anyway
[18:39] <Laurenceb> the US sounds more like A level :D
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[18:40] <edmoore> not really
[18:40] <edmoore> it just keeps some breadth to you
[18:40] <edmoore> rather than turning you into a tunnel visioned robot
[18:40] <Laurenceb> edmoore: will I fry a servo connecting it straight to 4xAA ?
[18:41] <edmoore> no
[18:41] <edmoore> big ones can take up to 13ish volts
[18:41] <edmoore> micro ones you should keep below 6v
[18:41] <Laurenceb> how did you discover that limit? :P
[18:41] <edmoore> digital ones you should do whatever they say
[18:41] <edmoore> ha
[18:41] <edmoore> decided to crank up my talking robot
[18:41] <edmoore> so it could do one-leg push ups
[18:41] <edmoore> had a 0-24V, 30A psu
[18:42] <Laurenceb> so a winch servo should be ok with up to ~ 7V ?
[18:45] <edmoore> yeah, i'd have thought so
[18:45] <edmoore> you don't want to stick stuff between it and the battery anyway
[18:46] <Laurenceb> yes, I dont want it on my 5v rail :D
[18:46] <edmoore> :D
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[19:15] <akawaka> morning
[19:36] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:parafoil_avr
[19:37] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, i might ban your ability to post links
[19:38] <Laurenceb> sorry
[19:38] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:38] <jcoxon> there have just been alot recently
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[19:54] <Laurenceb> I was just attempting to impress
[19:54] <Laurenceb> :P
[20:08] <edmoore> failed
[20:08] <edmoore> rocket scientists on university challenge
[20:15] <jcoxon> back
[20:17] <edmoore> they're not doing so well
[20:22] <jcoxon> oh dear
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[20:30] <Laurenceb> that was a bit poor
[20:30] <Laurenceb> you'd think they could get markov
[20:31] <edmoore> radio 4 longwave is transmitted on a 500kW transmitter
[20:31] <edmoore> 198khz
[20:31] <edmoore> it would be useful to have that on a balloon
[20:33] <Laurenceb> ha
[20:34] <Laurenceb> when I was building my phone cable scanning device, the first version of the amplifier just pomped out radio 4
[20:34] <Laurenceb> we couldnt work it out, so I stuck some headphones in and then we discovered the problem
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[20:36] <edmoore> delia smith is a bit embarassing
[20:36] <Laurenceb> when we fixed it, we had the same problem with russian submarine ELF
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[20:41] fnoble (n=fnoble@88-106-206-171.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:42] <fnoble> hello :)
[20:42] <Laurenceb> hello
[20:42] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: may I post a link?
[20:42] <Laurenceb> :P
[20:42] <jcoxon> i'm sure fnoble checks the wiki regularly
[20:43] <Laurenceb> http://www.robotfrontier.com/video/griffon.mpg
[20:43] <jcoxon> haha
[20:43] <Laurenceb> slightly dodgy talkoff
[20:43] <Laurenceb> *takeoff
[20:44] <fnoble> i havnt checked the wiki
[20:44] <fnoble> what am i missing?
[20:44] <jcoxon> fnoble, its just that everytime some one comes online
[20:44] <jcoxon> Laurence pastes a link to his code on the wiki
[20:44] <jcoxon> he is very proud
[20:44] <fnoble> heh
[20:45] <jcoxon> and i threatened to use my OP power and ban him from posting links
[20:45] <Laurenceb> thats not true
[20:45] <jcoxon> i'm not sure how i do it but i'd try
[20:45] <fnoble> heh
[20:45] <Laurenceb> it just looked like that :P
[20:45] <fnoble> can you just ban links to wiki pages of code?
[20:46] <Laurenceb> lol
[20:47] <fnoble> is the 'foil yours?
[20:47] <Laurenceb> despite appearances no
[20:48] <fnoble> im guessing its autonomous not RC
[20:50] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: ok, on two occasions I posted liks to the wiki after someone joins :D
[20:50] <fnoble> Lb, youve done it to me at least twice :)
[20:50] <jcoxon> don't make me search the logs
[20:51] <jcoxon> so if i put in Laurenceb + wiki into the search
[20:51] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:51] <Laurenceb> lol
[20:51] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, i'm only teasing
[20:51] <Laurenceb> I dont mind :P
[20:52] <jcoxon> once on 11/04
[20:53] <jcoxon> 3 times on 12/04
[20:53] <jcoxon> 2 time on 13/04
[20:54] <jcoxon> and 2 times today
[20:54] <jcoxon> :-p
[20:54] <edmoore> Laurenceb: haha
[20:54] <jcoxon> okay thats enough
[20:54] <edmoore> way more than twice
[20:54] <jcoxon> i'll stop now
[20:54] <edmoore> it's like a doormat
[20:54] <edmoore> when you go into a house, the first thing you see is a dorrmat
[20:54] <edmoore> when you log on here, the first thing you get is a link to your code
[20:54] <fnoble> maybe you could just put it into the topic
[20:54] <fnoble> save everyone the trouble
[20:58] <jcoxon> edmoore, so hows badger these days?
[20:58] <edmoore> oh whoops, i answered in pm
[20:58] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:58] <edmoore> am just about to talk to fnoble about it, I think
[20:59] <edmoore> skype, annoyingly
[20:59] <jcoxon> np
[20:59] <fnoble> sorry, its just i tire of so much typing
[20:59] <fnoble> :)
[20:59] <edmoore> lol
[20:59] <jcoxon> i've typed 5000words today
[20:59] <edmoore> why?
[20:59] <edmoore> report?
[20:59] <jcoxon> an essay
[20:59] <jcoxon> i wrote it over the weekend but cause i'm a technophobe i did it by hand
[21:01] <fnoble> ive barely typed anything today, its still annoying though
[21:01] <edmoore> I've sat around today
[21:01] <edmoore> made about 2L of bolognese sauce
[21:01] <edmoore> um....
[21:01] <edmoore> danced to some happy news
[21:02] <edmoore> that's about it
[21:02] <jcoxon> obviously some one has to do some work around here
[21:02] <jcoxon> there are lives to save
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[21:06] <jcoxon> evening RocketBoy
[21:09] <RocketBoy> hiya
[21:11] <RocketBoy> I've been playing with a CCD imager - for tracking balloons - the plan was to use an old camera telephoto lense in front of a webcam
[21:12] <RocketBoy> but I have just found out that CCDs are sensitive to Infra Red - and that passes thought the lense too
[21:12] <jcoxon> filter?
[21:12] <RocketBoy> So now I need to add an IR filter (webcams have an IR filter)
[21:13] <RocketBoy> yeah
[21:13] <jcoxon> if the webcam has a filter already?
[21:13] <RocketBoy> there are a few about for telescopes with CCDs
[21:13] <RocketBoy> the webcam filter is tiny - about 1cm across
[21:14] <RocketBoy> U guess I might be able to take it off and put it directly on the CCD
[21:15] <jcoxon> oh right, you've shifted from a webcam to a CCD
[21:15] <RocketBoy> sorry the webcam is CCD
[21:16] <RocketBoy> actually - i just looked the filter is even smaller - about 5mm square
[21:16] <RocketBoy> too small to fit over the CCD
[21:18] <jcoxon> oh
[21:19] <jcoxon> i'm progressing nicely with FHALP-?
[21:19] <jcoxon> oops FHALP-3
[21:20] <RocketBoy> all up and running again?
[21:21] <jcoxon> yes
[21:21] <jcoxon> finally
[21:21] <jcoxon> lots of difficulties
[21:21] <jcoxon> am at the moment sorting out the gps parsing code
[21:22] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, what IRC client do you use?
[21:23] <RocketBoy> an old version of mirc
[21:23] <jcoxon> oh right
[21:23] <RocketBoy> v4.6
[21:23] <jcoxon> doesn't do PM's then
[21:24] <RocketBoy> yep - sorry
[21:24] <jcoxon> 99
[21:25] <RocketBoy> yeah
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[22:50] <Laurenceb> RocketBoy: where did you get the CCD from?
[22:51] <natrium42> RocketBoy, is the magnification going to be sufficient?
[22:51] <natrium42> i am thinking about a similar setup
[22:51] <natrium42> with two alt-azi mount
[22:52] <natrium42> *two axis
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[23:00] <Laurenceb> hi mc-
[23:01] <fnoble> hello mc-
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[23:03] <natrium42> hi mc-
[23:05] <Laurenceb> ooh farnell have 3*5 mm crystals in stock :D
[23:06] <Laurenceb> still no mega324p, but they had them a week or so ago, so hopefully they'll get more soon
[23:06] <edmoore> hi mc- a
[23:06] <edmoore> geddit?
[23:08] <mc-> hi all
[23:08] <mc-> I don't get it?
[23:10] <Laurenceb> farnell is a rip off for sma headers :( but - http://www.toby.co.uk/datasheets/section1/SP-2xx-xx-R.pdf
[23:10] <edmoore> hiiiiiiiiiiiiii mc a
[23:10] <edmoore> lemme hear ya say....
[23:12] <Kornholijo> :o
[23:12] <Kornholijo> hi mc
[23:13] <mc-> hi
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[00:00] --- Tue Apr 15 2008