highaltitude.log.20080411

[00:03] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) joined #highaltitude.
[00:19] edmoore (n=edmoore@ADijon-257-1-159-128.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc:
[00:45] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[01:09] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) left irc: "Leaving"
[03:41] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[03:57] fnoble (n=fnoble@88-106-206-171.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) left #highaltitude.
[07:06] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[07:31] borism (n=boris@194.126.108.2) joined #highaltitude.
[07:39] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude.
[08:11] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[08:12] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-144-103-14.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:13] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:13] <jcoxon> i've worked out why i can't upload or read scripts
[08:13] <jcoxon> i need to be using hardware control - obviously the gm862-gps has a new version that doesn't need hardware control
[08:26] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-144-103-14.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[08:30] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[08:51] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude.
[09:08] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: Connection timed out
[09:21] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude.
[09:24] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) joined #highaltitude.
[09:41] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: Connection timed out
[09:42] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust538.glfd.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:42] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust538.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Client Quit
[10:58] Tiger^ (i=tygrys@moo.pl) got netsplit.
[10:58] borism (n=boris@194.126.108.2) got netsplit.
[10:58] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) got netsplit.
[10:58] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) got netsplit.
[10:58] hyperb_ (n=pattm@otto.microway.com) got netsplit.
[10:59] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) returned to #highaltitude.
[10:59] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[10:59] borism (n=boris@194.126.108.2) returned to #highaltitude.
[10:59] Tiger^ (i=tygrys@moo.pl) returned to #highaltitude.
[10:59] hyperb_ (n=pattm@otto.microway.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[11:16] edmoore (n=edmoore@ADijon-257-1-119-150.w90-6.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[11:55] borism_ (n=boris@194.126.108.2) joined #highaltitude.
[11:59] msweeney (n=martinzi@cpc1-brmb1-0-0-cust983.bagu.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:59] <msweeney> Hello!
[12:01] borism (n=boris@194.126.108.2) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[12:07] <edmoore> hi msweeney
[12:07] <msweeney> hola!
[12:07] <msweeney> how's easter hols?
[12:14] <edmoore> revisioney :(
[12:14] <edmoore> but in france atm so don't care :)
[12:14] <edmoore> lunch time!
[12:14] <edmoore> bbiab
[13:02] <edmoore> back msweeney
[13:04] <msweeney> just waiting for my sausages to cook. How's France?
[13:08] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[13:10] <Laurenceb> edmoore: is there anywhere you can get 5*3.2mm crystals?
[13:10] <edmoore> I was struggling with this too
[13:10] <edmoore> msweeney: wet
[13:10] <Laurenceb> I'm getting very angryyyyyy
[13:11] <edmoore> but I'm not here for the weather really, so it's OK :)
[13:11] <msweeney> well that's good. It's hailing where I am, but I'm not here for the weather, either. Off to Leeds tomorrow for revision - the nastier weather the better I think
[13:13] <Laurenceb> edmoore: did you find anything?
[13:14] <edmoore> no, gave up looking
[13:14] <Laurenceb> :(
[13:15] <Laurenceb> might have to put in a sperate order to rapid :(
[13:16] <Laurenceb> wtf
[13:17] <Laurenceb> wow rapid have everythnig
[13:17] <edmoore> not that much
[13:17] <Laurenceb> whats up with farnell :(
[13:17] <edmoore> but I keep getting emails from them telling me they're expanding their crystals line
[13:17] <Laurenceb> as far as crystals go they are way better
[13:18] <Laurenceb> grr I've got a whole order together for farnell
[13:18] <Laurenceb> are you going to be ordering from rapid?
[13:20] <edmoore> not any time soon
[13:20] <Laurenceb> nvm
[13:22] <Laurenceb> and now they've sold out of atmega324p
[13:22] <Laurenceb> farnell are shite
[13:22] <Laurenceb> oh doesnt look like I'm going to get anything done any time soon
[13:23] <Laurenceb> :-(
[13:24] <Laurenceb> maybe RS can come to the rescue
[13:25] <edmoore> be ready to spend ££
[13:25] <Laurenceb> no
[13:25] <Laurenceb> they dont stock it
[13:26] <Laurenceb> guess I'll just have to save my order and wait for it to be in stock
[13:26] <Laurenceb> which is annoying as if I want to do anything in the meantime I'll need to put in a second order
[13:27] <Laurenceb> how hard can it be, if the AVRs are selling out, order more
[13:28] <Laurenceb> they must have gone fast, there were over 1000 atmega324p last time I checked
[13:37] flowolf (n=flowolf@unaffiliated/flowolf) left #highaltitude ("Leaving").
[13:45] <Laurenceb> muhahahaha http://uk.farnell.com/1216292/optoelectronics/product.us0?sku=IMATRONIC-LDM145-670-1&_requestid=100488
[13:46] <msweeney> fun! What're you going to do with that/
[13:47] <Laurenceb> burn people :D
[13:48] <Laurenceb> I was actually searching for diodes
[13:49] <Laurenceb> msweeney: do you run linux?
[13:53] <msweeney> on my desktop? nope, but I can boot from Ubuntu CD if I wish, or I spend my working life on a linux server shell somewhere in calif...
[13:54] <Laurenceb> I was just thinking about avr programming
[13:54] <Laurenceb> its very cross platform
[13:54] <msweeney> mhmm, I can imagine. What's wrong with Arduino?
[13:54] <Laurenceb> I've just got started programming avr under ubuntu, I was using win XP
[13:55] <Laurenceb> arduino is ok, but you can make your own boards and write more powerful code
[13:55] <Laurenceb> if you just use avr
[13:56] <msweeney> I see. I like Arduino for the community and the wide availability of code. I'm sure that's also true for AVR in general, but I'd like to write up what I do and make it available to other *duino users
[13:57] <Laurenceb> cool plan
[13:58] <Laurenceb> ouch my farnell order is now approaching £50
[13:58] <msweeney> they make mini arduinos too, without the USB interface, which are reet tiny
[13:58] <msweeney> ah Farnell, such a money leach
[13:58] <Laurenceb> they are a bit of a rip off imo, you can make your own easily
[13:58] <Laurenceb> as is farnell :P
[13:59] <msweeney> yeah, I do plan to do that...but for development the big board is nice and easy to use
[13:59] <msweeney> farnell beats maplins tho ;)
[14:00] <Laurenceb> well I'm basically stocking up on everything and buying enough components for two UAVs
[14:01] <msweeney> hoorah for UAVs
[14:01] <msweeney> they'll cook lunch and deliver papers for us in the future, dontchaknow
[14:05] <edmoore> Laurenceb has decided parafoils are good
[14:08] <Laurenceb> £48
[14:08] <Laurenceb> not bad I guess...
[14:08] <Laurenceb> but half the stuff isnt in stock
[14:12] <msweeney> what sort of stuff have you got?
[14:13] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-160-237-147.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[14:23] msweeney (n=martinzi@cpc1-brmb1-0-0-cust983.bagu.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 3.0b5/2008032620]"
[14:56] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[15:02] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[15:11] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host86-160-237-147.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:20] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[15:21] <Hiena> Good afternoon.
[15:30] borism_ (n=boris@194.126.108.2) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[15:38] Action: Laurenceb prepares for a long wait until farnell have everything in stock
[15:56] edmoore (n=edmoore@ADijon-257-1-119-150.w90-6.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc:
[16:00] fnoble (n=fnoble@88-106-206-171.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:59] phatmonkey (n=ben@81.2.121.150) joined #highaltitude.
[17:38] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-144-103-14.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:41] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, you around?
[17:46] edmoore (n=edmoore@ADijon-257-1-119-150.w90-6.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:47] msweeney (n=martinzi@cpc1-brmb1-0-0-cust983.bagu.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:47] <msweeney> evening
[17:47] <jcoxon> evening
[17:49] <msweeney> how's tricks, jcoxon?
[17:53] borism (n=boris@195-50-206-249-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[17:55] <jcoxon> msweeney, not bad thanks
[17:55] <jcoxon> uni is busy
[17:55] <jcoxon> also doing some balloon stuff
[17:56] <msweeney> good good. I've yet to get around to doing either of those things
[17:59] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:59] <jcoxon> need to launch soon
[17:59] <jcoxon> just to keep me sane
[18:00] <msweeney> what're you working on at the mo?
[18:01] <jcoxon> Firefly 3
[18:01] <jcoxon> i've changed from gm862-gps to the gm862-nogps
[18:01] <jcoxon> which are suprisingly different
[18:01] <msweeney> ah ha, so you can use a GPS without that ceiling?
[18:01] <jcoxon> taken a while to find the differences so its been slow development
[18:01] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:02] <msweeney> they do that for Ardiuno now - http://www.libelium.com/tienda/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=42
[18:02] <msweeney> quite natty I thought
[18:02] <jcoxon> nice
[18:03] <msweeney> I'm sure you could make it yourself for less, but nontheless
[18:03] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:03] <jcoxon> though you get the micro on the gm862
[18:03] <msweeney> the what?
[18:03] <jcoxon> as in there is a microprocessor
[18:03] <jcoxon> which can be programmed
[18:04] <msweeney> ah I see, yes. Prefer python to fake C?
[18:04] <jcoxon> it just means that you don't need to have a power supply for something else
[18:05] <msweeney> true true! Every time I line up some time for fiddling with HAB stuff, I get more work and disappear underground again...will have to sort that out I think
[18:07] <msweeney> actually, you might be able to help me with something. I spend my life at Uni integrating and differentiating stuff, but I'm not entirely sure how to differentiate something. For instance the error inside a PID controller
[18:07] <msweeney> and by not sure how to differentiate, I mean in code
[18:07] <jcoxon> msweeney, oh thats way beyond me
[18:07] <jcoxon> i've only got gcse maths
[18:07] <msweeney> tut
[18:07] <msweeney> I should be able to work it out
[18:07] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:08] <jcoxon> i'm pretty qualified for what i do :-p
[18:08] <msweeney> wikipedia calls it "determining the slope of the error over time"
[18:08] <msweeney> I'm sure that you are, and I'm sure that you can do what you're qualified for...whereas I'm more than qualified enough but can't quite manage to put into practice it appears
[18:09] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:09] <jcoxon> i'm sure edmoore or Laurenceb will know the answer
[18:09] <jcoxon> or fnoble
[18:09] <edmoore> wha?
[18:09] <msweeney> ooh
[18:09] <jcoxon> haha
[18:09] <edmoore> you woke me up as i was email checking
[18:09] <edmoore> what's happening?
[18:10] <msweeney> say, for example, I have an error inside a PID loop - how do I work out the differential of that error? "determining the slope of the error over time"
[18:10] <edmoore> yes, I know some stuff about PID
[18:11] <edmoore> ok, the error in an input that is an absolute value, and you get that from your feedback system, whatever it may be
[18:11] <msweeney> yep; the difference between current value and req'd value
[18:11] <edmoore> if you want to differentiate that error, you simply take the value at the time t+1 and subtract from it the value you took at time t
[18:12] <edmoore> so you have the different in current over the time between samples
[18:12] <msweeney> how do I achieve that in a loop? Or does it not matter if I'm not using the differential until the next loop?
[18:12] <edmoore> dC/dt
[18:13] <edmoore> yes, there's a degree of phase lag in there - you calculate the difference between t and t-1, which obviously isn't the pure derivative at the time t
[18:13] <edmoore> but it's good enough usually
[18:13] <msweeney> rightio
[18:13] <edmoore> in inertial measurment units, you actually extract the estimated value of the gyroscopes, which is the actually derivative
[18:13] <edmoore> because they're rate gyroscopes
[18:14] <msweeney> gotcha
[18:16] <msweeney> so I'm thinking about horizon sensing autopilots at the moment (I'm sure I'll change my mind again in a day or so), with thermopiles monitoring roll & pitch. I know what value I want (my desired value of horizontal) and I know what I've got (my pitch, for example) - how do I use the PID to achieve that?
[18:16] <edmoore> so you have desired and you have actually
[18:16] <msweeney> yep
[18:16] <edmoore> desired - actual = error
[18:16] <msweeney> yep
[18:17] <edmoore> lets call the error e
[18:17] <edmoore> you then pass it into a PID controller which is mathemtically:
[18:18] <edmoore> ki*+(e)dt + kp*e + kd*(de/dt)
[18:18] <edmoore> ignore the k terms for the minute....
[18:19] <edmoore> that sum gives you the output that you send to your servo, or whatever
[18:19] <msweeney> the constants of proportionality, integral and differential?
[18:19] <edmoore> yes
[18:19] <edmoore> so those values, ki, kd, kp are what you adjust to tune the controller to a specific system
[18:19] <hyperb_> i'm wondering, in practice, how much of a working autopilot is math and how much is fudge factor/twirling the virtual "knobs" till it looks right?
[18:19] <edmoore> you can either be cunning and predict them, or just tune them itertively
[18:19] <edmoore> normally a mix of both works
[18:20] <edmoore> well the ki/kp/kd terms are your knobs
[18:21] <edmoore> if you model the aeroplane as a damped mass spring system (I am for the parafoil) then you can extract the k-terms from the damping ratio and the natural freq
[18:21] <edmoore> and you can calc those too by flying it under rc a few times and recording the response to your stick inputs
[18:21] <edmoore> those two*
[18:22] <msweeney> ok so in terms of output to a servo, if my platform has the wrong pitch (it's pointing towards the local hospital, say), then I generate a signal to send to my servo. I presumably have to change this value to something that the servo can understand (a PWM signal for 30 degrees, right)?
[18:22] <edmoore> yes
[18:23] <edmoore> so if you put your error input as degrees, the output of the PID will be a value in degrees
[18:23] <msweeney> aah
[18:24] <msweeney> I'll have to swot up on my aerodynamics I think; how the control surfaces of the aircraft relate to varying pitch or roll
[18:24] <edmoore> well....
[18:24] <msweeney> presumably it's not as simple as saying "we're pointing 7 degrees out, send the servo 7 degrees in the opposite direction"?
[18:24] <edmoore> there are some nice relationships going on
[18:24] <edmoore> you'll want a pitot tube in there
[18:25] <edmoore> because the response will depend on airspeed
[18:25] <edmoore> well, more specifically it'll depend on dynamic pressure - 0.5*density*v^2
[18:25] <fnoble> is it possible for the loop to tune its own response?
[18:25] <edmoore> but that feeds in to the loop quite nicely - the kp*e term turns into (kp/dynamicpressure)*e
[18:26] <jcoxon> what are the pinouts on a mosfet?
[18:26] <edmoore> fnoble: yes, welcome to lots of current phd research with neural netrs and the like
[18:26] <fnoble> i see
[18:26] <fnoble> jcoxon: depends on which mosfet
[18:26] <jcoxon> damn it
[18:26] <jcoxon> thought they were generic
[18:26] <edmoore> what does it look like?
[18:26] <jcoxon> off to find a datasheet
[18:27] <edmoore> what kind of package - the 3 pin one which fits into veroboard?
[18:27] Action: msweeney moans at the thought of mosfets. My condensed matter exam is largely on the finer points of designing them :|
[18:27] <jcoxon> yeah thats the one
[18:27] <fnoble> i think 80% are gate drain source
[18:27] <fnoble> looking from the writing side, from left to right
[18:28] <fnoble> but its best to check
[18:28] <msweeney> edmoore - are there digital/analog versions of a pitot tube?
[18:28] <edmoore> there are some common pcb mount barometric pressure sensors
[18:28] <edmoore> 99% of commercial autopilots use them
[18:28] <edmoore> bbiab, supper time
[18:29] <edmoore> (in france, anyway :p)
[18:29] <msweeney> bon appetit!
[18:42] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:06] <fnoble> bbl, food
[19:12] <Laurenceb> back
[19:12] <edmoore> 'ello ma little PID écoliers
[19:12] <edmoore> I am revenired!
[19:14] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[19:14] <edmoore> apres une bouteille de rouge
[19:14] <edmoore> wow, bold
[19:14] <natrium42> edmoore, parlez-vous francais?
[19:14] <edmoore> un petit-pue
[19:14] <edmoore> peu*
[19:14] <edmoore> I am half french
[19:14] <edmoore> and half drunk
[19:14] <natrium42> lol
[19:15] <edmoore> you too? Canadian/French?
[19:15] <natrium42> nah, my french sux
[19:15] <edmoore> I've never quite apprendre'd the geography of canadian/frencheness
[19:16] <natrium42> few canadians in the english part speak french well
[19:16] <edmoore> which part is which?
[19:16] <natrium42> quebec province is the french part
[19:16] <natrium42> all other provinces are english
[19:21] <edmoore> ok cool
[19:21] <edmoore> I remember struggling to understand canadian french, even as someone who's french is ok
[19:21] <natrium42> hehe
[19:22] <edmoore> but then I sometimes don't understand people from scotland, and they're speaking english
[19:22] <edmoore> apparently
[19:22] <natrium42> many people assume that everybody speaks french in canada
[19:22] <natrium42> i keep getting emails in french
[19:22] <natrium42> from europe
[19:22] <edmoore> lol
[19:22] <edmoore> from french people?
[19:22] <natrium42> yes
[19:22] <edmoore> well the french hold their language quite close to their hearts
[19:22] <natrium42> indeed :P
[19:22] <edmoore> as it's rather threatened by crude anglo-saxon
[19:23] <edmoore> The other day I saw an old guy berate a teenager for answering his phone with 'allo
[19:23] <natrium42> but it always surprises me when they don't understand any english
[19:23] <natrium42> since any german for example would understand it
[19:23] <edmoore> as i say, french is the language of heaven. all the rest are posers
[19:23] <natrium42> haha
[19:24] <akawaka> s/don't/won't/
[19:24] <natrium42> france is cool though :)
[19:24] <edmoore> akawaka: bingo
[19:24] <edmoore> yeah I like it
[19:24] <Laurenceb> ok I really am back now
[19:24] <edmoore> I'd probably rather live in our house here than home
[19:24] <Laurenceb> I was good at french
[19:24] <akawaka> paris is awesome, i was there for new years this last year
[19:25] <edmoore> better food, right in the middle of wine country, totally rural
[19:25] <edmoore> but faster broadband
[19:25] <Laurenceb> a long time ago
[19:25] <edmoore> tells you something about french infrastructure vs english
[19:25] <natrium42> i was in france maybe 8 years ago...
[19:25] <Laurenceb> msweeney: you about?
[19:25] <edmoore> where did you stay natrium42?
[19:26] <akawaka> so we really want to find some video recording solution that will allow us to record 3-4 hours
[19:26] <natrium42> in paris for a few weeks
[19:26] <akawaka> these cvs disposable video cameras are awesome
[19:26] <natrium42> as well as some rural city for 3 months
[19:26] <natrium42> i forgot the name
[19:26] <Laurenceb> disposable video camera lol
[19:26] <natrium42> but that was even longer ago
[19:27] <natrium42> i was very young
[19:27] <akawaka> Laurenceb: its crazy
[19:27] <edmoore> I hope to spend a bit more time here when I'm hold
[19:27] <edmoore> actually become fluent
[19:27] <Laurenceb> anyone here want to put in a digikey order?
[19:27] <akawaka> johan got one, you are meant to return them to get your pictures, but they have been hacked
[19:27] <edmoore> it's frustrating to be *almost* there but not finish it off
[19:28] <Laurenceb> the french aerospace industry is amazing
[19:28] <Laurenceb> good reason to learn french
[19:28] <akawaka> when you remove them from their case they are just a tiny 2" x 2" board
[19:28] <akawaka> but only 20mins of recording time
[19:28] <edmoore> I'm working for an ESA subcontractor over summer so I'm hoping to egt back out here then
[19:28] Action: Laurenceb got a B in gcse french
[19:28] <edmoore> A* :p
[19:29] <edmoore> but that's not really a fair comparison
[19:29] <Laurenceb> why?
[19:29] <edmoore> I'm half french
[19:29] <Laurenceb> oh
[19:29] <Laurenceb> didnt know
[19:29] <Laurenceb> I found it the hardest subject at gcse by far
[19:29] <natrium42> edmoore, maybe they would send you to french guiana?
[19:30] <edmoore> if there's sarcasm there it's lost on me as I'm now well into this new bottle of aligoté
[19:30] <edmoore> natrium42: if only :)
[19:30] <Laurenceb> the only one I got a B for :D
[19:30] Action: natrium42 would like to go there
[19:30] <edmoore> I'm working on Exomars so it's not particuarly imminent
[19:30] <natrium42> what launcher is going to be used for exomars?
[19:31] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[19:31] <edmoore> well that was a big debate
[19:31] <edmoore> and still kind of is
[19:31] Action: Laurenceb doesnt trust proton
[19:31] <edmoore> basically they're reprofiling the mission to be bigger and more ambitious
[19:31] <edmoore> and such may go from proton to ariane 5
[19:32] <edmoore> infact, almost certainly will
[19:32] <Laurenceb> any takers for a digikey order?
[19:32] <edmoore> sorry lb
[19:32] <edmoore> although, fnoble, are you there?
[19:32] <natrium42> i see, interestin
[19:32] Action: Laurenceb calling fnoble
[19:33] <edmoore> It's Ariane V at the moment, but politics is polatics so it could still be messed with
[19:34] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[19:34] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust538.glfd.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:34] <mc-> edmoore
[19:34] <Laurenceb> mc-
[19:34] <mc-> lb
[19:35] <Laurenceb> lol
[19:35] <Laurenceb> interested in a digikey order?
[19:35] <mc-> not at 100 pounds per order
[19:36] <edmoore> mc-: hi
[19:36] <mc-> do you have your phone on?
[19:36] <Laurenceb> well if you have about £50 then I could make it up to £100
[19:36] MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[19:36] <edmoore> about 5 seconds ago, I got your texts - I tend to leave my phone off in france as it's expensive
[19:36] <mc-> maybe Natrium could order for you and send it over?
[19:36] <Laurenceb> still expensive
[19:36] <edmoore> yes, anything to avoid the Being English Tax
[19:36] <Laurenceb> postage ect
[19:37] <akawaka> poor bastards
[19:37] <mc-> depends what you're ordering
[19:37] <fnoble> edmoore: have you ordered the stuff for badger1 yet?
[19:37] <Laurenceb> that is a point, could be a bit cheaper
[19:37] <mc-> BritTax
[19:37] <edmoore> mc-: the 18kg/80kft balloons are very, very, very interesting
[19:37] <edmoore> fnoble: digikey could get us the lpc2148s
[19:38] <edmoore> hence my pinging you
[19:38] <edmoore> but first, do you have the spreadsheets there?
[19:38] <fnoble> sorry, was eating
[19:38] <edmoore> a balloon that can get 18kg to 80kft can get a 10kg payload to where?
[19:38] <fnoble> edmoore: move this badger chat to pm
[19:38] <edmoore> bo
[19:38] <edmoore> no*
[19:39] <edmoore> mc-: , fnoble, come to 99
[19:39] <fnoble> k
[19:39] <Laurenceb> are the prices on digikey ex vat?
[19:39] <edmoore> yesa
[19:39] <edmoore> yes*
[19:39] <Laurenceb> crap
[19:39] <edmoore> but if the price is low enough we might sneak through
[19:39] <Laurenceb> then they are pretty poor value
[19:39] <Laurenceb> I see
[19:39] <akawaka> i'd be happy to forward stuff to you guys if you want to send it to me
[19:39] <Laurenceb> thanx
[19:40] <Laurenceb> but not sure we'd be saving anything
[19:40] <Laurenceb> with all the postage costs ect
[19:41] <natrium42> i may have a few lpc2148s
[19:41] <natrium42> you need them?
[19:44] <natrium42> actually i have the 2138
[19:44] <edmoore> yes!!!!
[19:44] <edmoore> oh
[19:44] <edmoore> poo
[19:44] <edmoore> yeah, everyone has the 2138
[19:44] <Laurenceb> I dont think digikey is worth it
[19:44] <edmoore> nowhere seems to stock the 2148apprently they can't keep up
[19:44] <edmoore> USB is all the rage, it seems
[19:44] <natrium42> ah, sucks
[19:46] <Laurenceb> looks like I'll just have to wait for farnell to get some stock in :-(
[19:47] borism (n=boris@195-50-206-249-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[19:47] <akawaka> sparkfun has some
[19:47] <edmoore> our current badger board really needs USB
[19:47] <edmoore> and the lpc2148, being popular, has some really good libraries
[19:48] <edmoore> whilst there are other chips out there with USB, I'm just not good enough a programmer to attemp something like that
[19:48] <edmoore> that's the domain of people know know what they're doing, like you
[19:52] <natrium42> edmoore, is it usb host?
[19:54] <edmoore> natrium42: I don't believe so
[19:54] <edmoore> nor OTG, even
[19:55] <edmoore> I have only seen ARM9s with USB OTG
[19:55] <edmoore> let me have a look in the datasheet though...
[19:55] <natrium42> right
[19:58] <edmoore> nope, just normal smelly slavishness
[19:59] <natrium42> ok, thanks for checking
[20:02] borism (n=boris@195-50-206-249-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[20:03] <fnoble> thats worryingly racist edmoore
[20:03] <fnoble> i dont think its pc to refer to slavs these days
[20:03] <fnoble> :p
[20:03] <edmoore> hohoho
[20:03] <edmoore> you're just getting back at me because of banter in highaltitude99
[20:03] <edmoore> i see through you.......
[20:04] <edmoore> bitch
[20:04] <fnoble> youre pissed
[20:04] <edmoore> oh lord, enough wine
[20:09] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust538.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left irc:
[20:13] <Laurenceb> how do I use a datafile in octave?
[20:13] <edmoore> fopen
[20:13] <edmoore> fopen(filename, 'intsize')
[20:14] <edmoore> or something like that
[20:14] <edmoore> do not trust me in this state
[20:14] <edmoore> eng fopen(telem, 'int16')
[20:14] <edmoore> or if its csv, csvopen()
[20:14] <Laurenceb> oh
[20:14] <Laurenceb> I see
[20:15] <edmoore> maybe the apostrophes are on the first arguement
[20:15] <Laurenceb> so I could use 'flt'
[20:15] <Laurenceb> ?
[20:15] <edmoore> oh i don;t know, help fopen is your friend
[20:15] <edmoore> i don't now what flt is
[20:16] <Laurenceb> I have a file of ascii floating point
[20:18] <Laurenceb> oh ffs firefox has died for the millionth time
[20:21] edmoore (n=edmoore@ADijon-257-1-119-150.w90-6.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[20:22] <Laurenceb> he died
[20:22] <Laurenceb> liver poisoning
[20:23] <fnoble> heh
[20:24] edmoore (n=edmoore@ADijon-257-1-119-150.w90-6.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[20:24] <Laurenceb> hrmf this is starting to annoy me
[20:24] <edmoore> crashed
[20:24] <Laurenceb> lol
[20:24] <Laurenceb> stupid mac
[20:25] <fnoble> :/
[20:25] Action: Laurenceb rembers his linux machine crashes every 5 minutes
[20:27] <Laurenceb> ah you use load
[20:27] <Laurenceb> simple
[20:27] <fnoble> Lb: what do you use atm?
[20:28] <Laurenceb> operating system?
[20:28] <Laurenceb> ubuntu
[20:43] jatkins (n=jatkins@79-65-9-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:48] msweeney (n=martinzi@cpc1-brmb1-0-0-cust983.bagu.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "died a death"
[20:58] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:ukhas_glider_project:methods_of_control
[20:59] <Laurenceb> ^ I did an FFT of the test data
[21:05] <Laurenceb> the peak is at 0.17857 Hz
[21:06] <fnoble> i cant understand these graphs!
[21:06] <fnoble> no units
[21:06] <fnoble> no lables... gah
[21:07] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:07] <Laurenceb> its not work
[21:07] <Laurenceb> F5 the page, I added some details
[21:11] <fnoble> ok i see now
[21:11] <Laurenceb> its just under proportional control there
[21:11] <fnoble> looks like the real damping is less than your fitted line
[21:11] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:12] <Laurenceb> I need to do this properly in gnuplot
[21:12] <Laurenceb> that page is ancient
[21:12] <Laurenceb> just thought I'd take another look at it all
[21:13] <fnoble> looks like some good data though
[21:13] <fnoble> should be able to use it to tune your control loops maybe?
[21:13] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:13] <Laurenceb> unfortunately I dont have that wing design any more
[21:13] <Laurenceb> but I might rebuild it
[21:22] <Laurenceb> but gnuplot isnt having it
[21:22] <Laurenceb> the fit is going mad
[21:23] <fnoble> trying to fit complex exponential?
[21:23] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:24] <Laurenceb> actually
[21:24] <Laurenceb> maybe it is getting the best fit
[21:24] jatkins (n=jatkins@79-65-9-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) left irc: " HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!"
[21:24] <Laurenceb> its just a straight line
[21:25] <Laurenceb> oh well nvm
[21:39] edmoore_ (n=edmoore@ADijon-257-1-34-36.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[21:40] <fnoble> edmoore_: hello
[21:40] <edmoore_> hi
[21:40] <fnoble> so what do yo think of the system?
[21:40] <edmoore_> I'm still not completely sure I understand. I will talk about it tomorrow
[21:42] <fnoble> ok
[21:43] <edmoore_> if it does actually work though, you get a kiss
[21:43] <edmoore_> os a beer
[21:43] <edmoore_> or*
[21:46] <edmoore_> whichever is the lower value
[21:50] edmoore (n=edmoore@ADijon-257-1-119-150.w90-6.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[21:51] <fnoble> i think it will work
[21:51] <fnoble> :)