highaltitude.log.20080408

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[00:19] <natrium42> Laurenceb, soyuz launch tomorrow
[00:19] <natrium42> wait, it's today for you
[00:19] <natrium42> :)
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[00:35] <akawaka> natrium42: didn't realise that this was you: http://www.natrium42.com/halo/flight2/
[00:35] <akawaka> though, the url kind of gives it away
[00:36] <akawaka> that was a really cool flight
[00:36] <natrium42> thanks :)
[00:36] <akawaka> done any more?
[00:36] <natrium42> it got quite a bit exposure
[00:36] <natrium42> not yet, have been busy with university & work
[00:38] <akawaka> where are you working?
[00:38] <akawaka> you are involved in DS stuff too, right?
[00:38] <natrium42> home business --> electrobee.com
[00:40] <akawaka> interested in game development or just the hardware side?
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[00:41] <natrium42> i usually tend to prefer being close to HW
[00:43] <natrium42> bbl, going to bike
[01:07] <natrium42> back
[01:07] <natrium42> akawaka, eventually i want to get away from nds cards
[01:08] <natrium42> too many people misuse them
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[02:25] <akawaka> how quickly can you write to a mmc card using the spi interface?
[02:25] <natrium42> the clock is spec'd at 25MHz i believe
[02:26] <natrium42> so if you use 1 bit interfaces, you get 25Mb/s theoretical
[02:26] <natrium42> if you go with the 4 bit, it would be 4 times faster
[02:33] <akawaka> how does the 4-bit stuff work, is it some proprietry extension to spi?
[02:50] <fnoble> its hard to get the spec, go for spi unless you have no option but to use the 4 wire
[02:51] <fnoble> its a completely proprietry protocol
[03:07] <akawaka> i see
[03:08] <akawaka> didn't realize the 4-bit stuff was the main deal
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[10:11] <Laurenceb> hey edmoore
[10:11] <edmoore> morning
[10:11] <edmoore> just off into town, sozzle
[10:11] <Laurenceb> savetrees makes me happy :D
[10:11] <Laurenceb> lol
[10:11] <edmoore> lol
[10:12] <edmoore> makes Mother Nature happy too
[10:12] <Laurenceb> I'm almost finished
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[10:12] <Laurenceb> unfortunately that means I should do revision, which isnt as fun
[10:12] <Laurenceb> bye
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[15:47] <Laurenceb> hi fnoble
[15:47] <fnoble> hello
[15:47] <fnoble> hows the report going?
[15:50] <Laurenceb> not so bad thanx, almost finished
[15:51] <Laurenceb> I managed to get gnuplot to behave
[15:52] <Laurenceb> http://thewhalehunt.org/
[15:52] <Laurenceb> ^ intresting site (gets a bit gory)
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[16:42] <jatkins> hi everyone
[16:45] <Laurenceb> hello
[16:46] <Laurenceb> why is adsl asymmetric? It takes ages to upload :(
[16:48] <jatkins> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article3689881.ece
[16:48] <jatkins> say goodbye to waiting, until then wait for fibre optic internet :)
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[16:59] <Laurenceb> hmm its not working
[16:59] <Laurenceb> whats a good way to send a 100MB file?
[17:00] <jatkins> torrent might be
[17:00] <hyperb_> "yousendit"
[17:02] <Laurenceb> I think I'll stick it on cdr and post it
[17:02] <hyperb_> yeah
[17:02] <jatkins> is it already compressed?
[17:02] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:03] <jatkins> oh right
[17:03] <Laurenceb> I have a shell account on a server down in Oxford - where I'm sending it, but they guy who needs it wont be able to access that account
[17:04] <Laurenceb> unless I give him the password...
[17:05] <Laurenceb> hmm how could I change my password beforehand?
[17:05] <Laurenceb> (its an OSx based system)
[17:06] <jatkins> no idea, sorry
[17:06] <jatkins> CD-R's probably easiest
[17:07] <Laurenceb> he
[17:07] <Laurenceb> but not as much fun... I migh try it this evening
[17:07] <jatkins> lol
[17:07] <jatkins> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article3689881.ece
[17:07] <jatkins> sorry, wrong link
[17:08] <jatkins> http://www.freebyte.com/hjsplit/
[17:08] <jatkins> it probably won't help, but you could split it up and send in parts
[17:08] <akawaka> 75 floppies
[17:08] <jatkins> lol
[17:09] <jatkins> or email in partsd
[17:09] <hyperb_> passwd
[17:09] <jatkins> parts*
[17:09] <hyperb_> passwd lets you change the password
[17:09] <Laurenceb> cool
[17:09] <Laurenceb> then how do you transfer files over ssh?
[17:10] <hyperb_> normally the way I upload large files is to upload via sftp/ssh to the public_html directory on a shell (which is shared out by a web server if that's set up), then I email the person an http link
[17:10] <hyperb_> winscp is one easy/free/small program for transferring files over ssh
[17:10] <hyperb_> lots of ftp clients actually support "sftp" (ftp over ssh) also
[17:10] <akawaka> http://www.pipebytes.com/
[17:10] <hyperb_> not to be confused with ssl ftp
[17:11] <akawaka> filezilla is a great alround transfer tool
[17:11] <hyperb_> or yeah, there's websites like yousendit.com
[17:11] <hyperb_> yeah filezilla supports sftp
[17:11] <akawaka> supports, ftp, sftp, etc
[17:11] <Laurenceb> right, as I only has ssh access
[17:12] <fnoble> you can upload the file to your shell account then set it world readable, if your friend has an account on the same machine
[17:12] <Laurenceb> ok
[17:13] <fnoble> scp is the way to transfer the file to an ssh account
[17:13] <fnoble> doesnt need any extra server or anything
[17:14] <hyperb_> yeah if you use filezilla or winscp (on windows)... if you are using linux or mac there's already a commandline scp client that comes with the OS
[17:14] <Laurenceb> I'm using linux
[17:15] <jatkins> filezilla also works on linux
[17:15] <akawaka> or just the scp command line
[17:16] <jatkins> yeah
[17:16] <akawaka> scp myfile username@host:remotefilename
[17:17] <Laurenceb> right
[17:17] <Laurenceb> ok thanx for the help :P
[17:18] <Laurenceb> I think I'll scp it and change the password temporarily to give him access to it
[17:18] <akawaka> if you are truely ghetto: cat myfile | ssh username@host "cat > remotefilename"
[17:25] <fnoble> heh
[17:30] <Laurenceb> haha
[17:34] <Laurenceb> bl
[17:34] <Laurenceb> bbl*
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[18:08] <Hiena> Good evening!
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[20:55] <Laurenceb> akawaka: I've got scp working, thanx for the help
[21:06] Nick change: MeTa[AwAy] -> MetaMorfozis
[21:06] Nick change: MetaMorfozis -> MetaMorfoziS
[21:14] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:17] <natrium42> hey jcoxon
[21:24] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[21:24] <jcoxon> just reflashed my gm862-quad module
[21:24] <jcoxon> found out that there are 2 different versions of the module
[21:24] <jcoxon> and the one i have is 0.6
[21:24] <jcoxon> the GM862-GPS is 0.7
[21:25] <jcoxon> hence why there were differences
[21:25] <natrium42> aah
[21:25] <natrium42> good call
[21:26] <natrium42> are you working on atlas?
[21:26] <jcoxon> occasionally
[21:26] <jcoxon> :-)
[21:26] <jcoxon> this is for FHALP-3
[21:26] <jcoxon> but it might go towards atlas
[21:26] <jcoxon> we are still debating the flight computer
[21:26] <Laurenceb> AVR
[21:26] <Laurenceb> :D
[21:27] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, probably not
[21:27] <jcoxon> :-)
[21:27] <Laurenceb> how come?
[21:27] <jcoxon> Rocketboy's PIC system is rather nice
[21:28] <Laurenceb> ok same differnece
[21:28] <jcoxon> hehe sort of
[21:28] <Laurenceb> doing it with a uC will keep it light and simple
[21:28] <jcoxon> its either that or Badger
[21:29] <natrium42> bbl, going to ship a few orders
[21:29] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, did i ever send you that em406a gps?
[21:29] <Laurenceb> no :P
[21:29] <jcoxon> oops
[21:29] <Laurenceb> you didnt send the nds motion card either
[21:30] <jcoxon> i better shift through my stuff
[21:30] <Laurenceb> thanx
[21:30] <jcoxon> i defintely put in an envelope
[21:30] <edmoore> jcoxon: so how many working gps ~+ gsm modules do you have?
[21:30] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:30] <jcoxon> i have:
[21:30] <jcoxon> GM862-GPS that doesn't do GSM
[21:30] <jcoxon> 2 x GM862-QUAD-PY
[21:30] <jcoxon> thats it
[21:30] <Laurenceb> cool :D
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[21:31] <edmoore> bum
[21:31] <Laurenceb> how can I find out the size of a file over ssh
[21:31] <edmoore> I'm after a working gsm + gps
[21:31] <jcoxon> nah sorry
[21:34] <jcoxon> that said this GM862-Quad module doesn't seem to allow scripts to be uploaded
[21:35] <Laurenceb> annoying :(
[21:35] <jcoxon> the at commands seem to be working
[21:35] <Laurenceb> hmm my shell account seems to have a 50 meg limit :(
[21:36] <Laurenceb> this is so annoying
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[21:36] <Laurenceb> I'm close to resorting to posting a CDr
[21:37] <edmoore> it sounds like this modules are a real arse to use the python bit
[21:37] <edmoore> these*
[21:37] <jcoxon> hmmm the gm862-gps are much better
[21:37] <jcoxon> these quad modules are apparently an older hardware
[21:47] <natrium42> back
[21:48] <natrium42> got that canon camera today i manually-sniped off ebay
[21:48] <jcoxon> the ones you can stick teh scripts on?
[21:49] <natrium42> you can capture images via usb
[21:49] <natrium42> and it's low megapixel count which is ++
[21:51] <natrium42> camera is getting harder to find, so i need to make a stash :)
[21:52] <jcoxon> capture images by usb?
[21:52] <jcoxon> as in trigger it by usb
[21:52] <akawaka> which camera?
[21:52] <natrium42> no, it can also transfer images via usb
[21:53] <natrium42> and you can control all functions too
[21:53] <natrium42> like zooming in, etc
[21:53] <natrium42> akawaka, Canon PowerShot A510
[21:54] <akawaka> ah yes
[21:54] <natrium42> i sniped it for $50
[21:54] <natrium42> looks almost new
[21:54] <akawaka> a5* s are nice
[21:54] <akawaka> light
[21:54] <jcoxon> have you seen this: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
[21:54] <natrium42> yah, it's perfect
[21:54] <natrium42> i also got a waterproof case for it ;)
[21:55] <natrium42> it has a built-in UV filter
[21:55] <akawaka> we're thinking of using some of these: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8668
[21:55] <natrium42> jcoxon, ooh, neat
[21:55] <akawaka> write directly to a sd card through a pic or na fpga
[21:56] <natrium42> akawaka, yes, it would be neat to make the smallest possible payload with those
[21:56] <akawaka> i still want something in the 3+ megapixel range though
[21:56] <natrium42> with a custom 4 layer PCB, FPGA and some other goodies
[21:56] <akawaka> johan is gonna look into it
[21:56] <jcoxon> that alternative firmware is really nice
[21:56] <natrium42> could arrange 3 of those cameras onto the PCB and switch between them
[21:56] <jcoxon> set it up so that when you turn it on its sets the camera up
[21:56] <jcoxon> then triggers the picture
[21:57] <jcoxon> also can be triggered through the usb cable
[21:57] <natrium42> jcoxon, very cool, i am going to look into it
[21:57] <natrium42> the default firmware is quite buggy when you capture images via USB
[21:57] <natrium42> after about 500 shots, it crashes
[21:58] <natrium42> so i have been doing hardware resets via a relay
[21:58] <natrium42> ooh, RAW mode
[21:59] <akawaka> doesn't look like the a510 is supported
[22:00] <natrium42> probably not tested
[22:00] <natrium42> or does it say it's not supported?
[22:00] <jcoxon> i don't think its supported
[22:01] <jcoxon> its all to do with Digic II and III
[22:02] <natrium42> ah, ok
[22:02] <natrium42> well i can test with my SD750
[22:03] <jcoxon> its rather cool
[22:03] <jcoxon> especially the way you just stick it on hte SD card
[22:03] <jcoxon> and its not permenant
[22:04] <akawaka> its surprisingly friendly
[22:10] <natrium42> hmm, it doesn't really seem to do anything to remote capture
[22:11] <jcoxon> i liked it for the scripting to allow lots of pictures :-)
[22:11] <natrium42> yah, that's quite cool
[22:11] <jcoxon> and the auto setup
[22:11] <natrium42> but what i need is taking pictures via verdex, scaling them down and sending them over radio
[22:11] <jcoxon> so you could just turn it on and fly
[22:12] <edmoore> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AffQ7pbvKs
[22:12] <natrium42> it's quite interesting that the used vxWorks
[22:12] <akawaka> natrium42: what kind of radio?
[22:12] <Laurenceb> that camera is nice :P
[22:12] <natrium42> akawaka, 900MHz or iridium phone
[22:12] <akawaka> i'd like to find a cheap sony or casio on ebay, since they have mpeg4 video encoding on some of their digicams
[22:13] <akawaka> how did the 900mhz radio modem work out?
[22:13] <Laurenceb> but its pain to solder to
[22:13] <akawaka> Laurenceb: the sparkfun one?
[22:13] <natrium42> akawaka, i still need to test it with a yagi
[22:13] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:13] <akawaka> Laurenceb: looks like it might fit in a plcc socket
[22:14] <Laurenceb> ah nice plan
[22:14] <edmoore> who used vxWorks?
[22:15] <natrium42> it's running on canon cameras apparently
[22:15] <Laurenceb> yes, what are we talking about ? :P
[22:15] <edmoore> it's a v nice real time OS
[22:15] <Laurenceb> oh interesting
[22:15] <edmoore> analog use it a lot for their dsp stuff
[22:15] <akawaka> yeah
[22:16] <natrium42> NASA use it alot too :D
[22:17] <akawaka> mars rovers use it, right?
[22:17] <edmoore> on what?
[22:17] <natrium42> yes
[22:17] <edmoore> oh cool
[22:17] <edmoore> so there's a powerpc port
[22:17] <akawaka> gonna have to start putting hardened ppc cores on these balloons!
[22:17] <natrium42> hehe
[22:17] <natrium42> could use xilinx virtex fpga
[22:17] <natrium42> it has built in powerpc cores
[22:18] <edmoore> you subscribe to arocket+
[22:18] <edmoore> ?
[22:18] <natrium42> me?
[22:19] <edmoore> yeah
[22:19] <natrium42> no, is it a magazine?
[22:19] <edmoore> no, a list
[22:19] <Laurenceb> what is it?
[22:19] <edmoore> all the newspace people use it
[22:19] <edmoore> carmack etc
[22:19] <edmoore> they were discussing the hardened virtex's today
[22:19] <edmoore> mail list
[22:19] <natrium42> oh, nice coincidence :)
[22:19] <fnoble> they all use eeprom still
[22:19] <Laurenceb> nice
[22:20] <edmoore> eeprom rocks
[22:20] <fnoble> apparantly flash just cant take the radiation
[22:20] <natrium42> flash is based on static electricity, right?
[22:20] <natrium42> so it makes sense that it has problems with radiation
[22:21] <natrium42> i have a regular virtex fpga here with 2 powepc cores
[22:21] <edmoore> oh wow
[22:22] <edmoore> do you do fpga dev?
[22:22] <natrium42> yes, but not the past few months
[22:22] <edmoore> still, that's cool
[22:22] <natrium42> fpgas rule :)
[22:22] <edmoore> having gps + cpu + servo drivers + absolutely everything on a chip would be awesome
[22:22] <Laurenceb> natrium43: its quantum tunelling
[22:22] <edmoore> what's your toolchain?
[22:23] <natrium42> i implemented parallel algorithms that used to run on computer clusters
[22:23] <natrium42> for a professor
[22:23] <natrium42> onto fpga
[22:23] <Laurenceb> edmoore: whats the difference between eeprom and flash?
[22:24] <natrium42> edmoore, xilinx crap
[22:24] <edmoore> Laurenceb: flash has pages, so you might write/read, say, 512 bytes all at once
[22:24] <Laurenceb> ah
[22:24] <edmoore> eeprom lets you r/w individual bytes
[22:25] <Laurenceb> how does that change radiation performance?
[22:25] <edmoore> well the tech is fundamentally different
[22:25] <Laurenceb> its just tunnelling to a gate isnt it?
[22:26] <edmoore> dunno, ask wikipedia
[22:27] <jcoxon> natrium42, you know when you tried to reflash the gm862-gps
[22:27] <Laurenceb> maybe there are multiple electrodes or something...
[22:27] <natrium42> yes?
[22:27] <Laurenceb> in flash as opposed to eeprom
[22:27] <jcoxon> did you try AT$GPSPRG
[22:28] <jcoxon> as its meant to allow you to flash the GPS
[22:28] <natrium42> hmm, really?
[22:28] <natrium42> i haven't tried it
[22:28] <edmoore> really!!!?????
[22:28] <jcoxon> i'm browsing the AT command line
[22:28] <natrium42> is it in the manual?
[22:28] <edmoore> if this is the case....
[22:29] <edmoore> wow
[22:29] <natrium42> jcoxon, got a link handy?
[22:29] <jcoxon> Execution command allows to switch on the GPS part in BOOT mode and set the GSM processor in Transparent Mode, in order to permit the re-
[22:29] <jcoxon> programming of th GPS flash memory.
[22:29] <jcoxon>
[22:29] <jcoxon> Note: the escape sequence is ?+++?
[22:29] <jcoxon>
[22:29] <jcoxon> Note: it is possible to issue $GPSPRG only if the Serial Port Speed is fixed
[22:29] <jcoxon> 38400 bps Execution command allows to switch on the GPS part in BOOT mode and set the GSM processor in Transparent Mode, in order to permit the re-
[22:29] <jcoxon> programming of th GPS flash memory.
[22:29] <natrium42> oh wowo
[22:29] <jcoxon>
[22:29] <jcoxon> Note: the escape sequence is ?+++?
[22:29] <jcoxon>
[22:29] <natrium42> that wasn't in the manual before
[22:29] <jcoxon> Note: it is possible to issue $GPSPRG only if the Serial Port Speed is fixed
[22:29] <jcoxon> 38400 bps
[22:29] <jcoxon> oops twice
[22:29] <jcoxon> sorry guys
[22:29] <jcoxon> http://www.telit.com/module/infopool/download.php?id=542
[22:29] <edmoore> this is amazing news
[22:29] <natrium42> jcoxon, do it, do it, do it
[22:29] <natrium42> jcoxon, do it
[22:29] <natrium42> :D
[22:30] <Laurenceb> ah
[22:30] Action: Laurenceb screws his eyeball back in
[22:31] <jcoxon> well i do have a GSM dead GM862-GPS module
[22:31] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:31] Action: natrium42 checks whether it's worth going to radio class today
[22:31] <edmoore> jcoxon: try it
[22:31] <edmoore> see if it works
[22:31] <edmoore> omg this is exciting
[22:31] <fnoble> please do
[22:31] <edmoore> this would be awesome if it works
[22:31] <fnoble> ed: calm yourself
[22:31] <jcoxon> why, will the gm862 module return to the top
[22:32] <edmoore> we'd have a one box solution to all our problems
[22:32] <edmoore> atlas sorted
[22:32] <edmoore> fnoble: no
[22:32] <edmoore> this is an hisotric moment
[22:32] <edmoore> they will look back at this day
[22:32] <edmoore> and so on
[22:32] <fnoble> "they"...
[22:32] <edmoore> the future
[22:33] <akawaka> by they they mean, well, you
[22:33] <fnoble> the balloon geeks of the world
[22:33] <Laurenceb> lmao
[22:33] <edmoore> bill and ted founded a future civilisation in their garage
[22:33] <edmoore> we will found one on irc
[22:33] <Laurenceb> akawaka: remove the altitude limits
[22:34] <fnoble> but it means we can us the gm862 module as an all in one flight computer
[22:34] <fnoble> needing only external radio modem
[22:34] <fnoble> and the gm862 is smaller than a matchbox
[22:34] <fnoble> :)
[22:34] <akawaka> shit
[22:34] <akawaka> screw balloons, just tape that thing to a feather
[22:34] <Laurenceb> we'll just need my radio board :P
[22:35] <edmoore> :s/my/rocketboy's
[22:35] <Laurenceb> whats up with mine?
[22:36] <edmoore> I was just teasing :p
[22:36] <Laurenceb> what voltage does it use?
[22:36] <Laurenceb> just a sinlge cell lipo?
[22:36] <fnoble> you know your really a geek when... you use vim commands in common speeck
[22:36] <fnoble> *speech :)
[22:37] <fnoble> it has build in LDO etc. to be run off a single LiION
[22:37] <Laurenceb> what voltage levels is the serial?
[22:37] <fnoble> 3.3v iirc
[22:37] <Laurenceb> nice
[22:37] <fnoble> or maybe 2.8?
[22:38] <Laurenceb> it will go straight onto the radio in either case
[22:38] <Laurenceb> :D
[22:38] <akawaka> if i do a serial tx with ttl levels will it work on most hardware?
[22:38] <jcoxon> 2.8v
[22:38] <fnoble> yes, although ultra shiny new things are moving to lower voltages
[22:39] <Laurenceb> AVR32 uses 1.8v IIRC
[22:40] <Laurenceb> I'd be interested to see how the mosfets are different in low voltage designs
[22:40] <akawaka> i wonder what protocol the xbox360 controller keypad adaptor uses
[22:40] <fnoble> the MO bit is thinner I imagine
[22:42] <Laurenceb> ah yes
[22:42] <Laurenceb> thats why intel moved away from silicon dioxide
[22:44] <jcoxon> haha paxman is ripping apart Ken livingstone
[22:54] <Laurenceb> newsnight?
[22:56] <fnoble> you realise hornblower is on?
[22:56] <Laurenceb> I like this: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2006/11/how_to_drive_a.html
[22:56] <Laurenceb> nice and simple :P
[23:01] Action: Laurenceb --> bed
[23:01] Nick change: Laurenceb -> Laurenceb_away
[23:17] <akawaka> anyone got details on the balloon that went to 170kft?
[23:20] <jcoxon> 170!
[23:21] <akawaka> thats the record
[23:21] <jcoxon> really?
[23:21] <jcoxon> amateur its 120kft
[23:22] <jcoxon> but google says 170k
[23:23] Nick change: MetaMorfoziS -> MeTa[AwAy]
[23:24] <akawaka> http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ValerieChang.shtml
[23:24] <akawaka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_C._Winzen
[23:24] <jcoxon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_altitude_record#Unmanned_gas_balloon
[23:25] <akawaka> got any details on the amateur record
[23:26] <akawaka> awesome, certain keys on my keyboard are causing interference in my headphones
[23:26] MeTa[AwAy] (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[23:26] <jcoxon> ummmmhttp://showcase.netins.net/web/wallio/ARHABrecords.htm
[23:28] <jcoxon> haha the original record was got by a 1,350,000m3 size balloon
[23:30] <akawaka> is there an rfc for ummmmhttp 1.0 ?
[23:33] <akawaka> hmm, snox smashed a lot of records
[23:38] <fnoble> what is ummmmhttp?
[23:38] <jcoxon> hehe i was typing ummmm and then pasted the link
[23:39] <edmoore> oh i seeeee
[23:39] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[23:39] <jcoxon> night all
[23:39] <fnoble> yeah, http has an rfc, dunno what number
[23:39] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-144-103-14.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:39] <fnoble> it would be worrying if i did :)
[23:41] <fnoble> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1945.html
[00:00] --- Wed Apr 9 2008