highaltitude.log.20080402

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[02:25] <__johan__> Our balloon launch went well. We just found the balloon. Here is a link http://www.boredgamedeveloper.com/high_altitude/index.php/Main_Page
[02:26] <rcaron> __johan__: congrats on recovery
[02:27] <__johan__> Thanks.
[02:28] <__johan__> akawaka is bringing back the balloon right now, he said there where some pictures of black sky. That was sort of the goal.
[02:30] <__johan__> I just wish it went an extra 14001 feet, but you cant get everything I guess.
[02:31] <__johan__> Wait.. thats 1401 feet I want..
[02:32] <rcaron> we got black sky at 70kft so you're in fine shape
[02:43] <__johan__> Yeah, the camera gave up after a while though.
[02:44] <__johan__> 100K would be cool though.
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[12:42] <Laurenceb> hello ed
[12:42] <Laurenceb> I was watching your videos on youtube :P
[12:43] <Laurenceb> edmoore: you should use google video, its not full of illiterate chavs
[12:44] <edmoore> which videos?
[12:45] <edmoore> and I want illiterate chavs
[12:45] <edmoore> they're less likely to come across my video
[12:46] <Laurenceb> haha
[12:47] <Laurenceb> fructose pomposity
[12:50] <Laurenceb> this is seriously cool: http://elm-chan.org/works/akilcd/report_e.html
[12:55] <Laurenceb> you could use the code for a balloon borne reciever
[12:57] <Laurenceb> http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/felm/gvspec_b.avi <-- nice display as well :P
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[13:05] <Laurenceb> edmoore: what do you think?
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[16:02] <edmoore> google.co.uk working for people?
[16:03] <jcoxon> yuo
[16:03] <jcoxon> yup
[16:04] <edmoore> hmmm
[16:04] <edmoore> obviously decided I've been doing too much searching
[16:04] <Laurenceb> hehe
[16:04] <Laurenceb> I've got been getting MSN working with pidgin
[16:05] <Laurenceb> its a pain, I prefer IRC
[16:05] <jcoxon> i got my new gm862 module
[16:05] <Laurenceb> cool
[16:05] <edmoore> Laurenceb: that guy's prototyping technique is amazing
[16:05] <Laurenceb> I know
[16:05] <edmoore> as are his projects
[16:05] <Laurenceb> yes, hes a god
[16:05] <edmoore> I love the laser projection
[16:05] <edmoore> onto clouds
[16:06] <Laurenceb> I'm struggling to understand the capacitance circuit
[16:06] <Laurenceb> the diode arrangement is weird
[16:06] <Laurenceb> he wrote a FAT library as well
[16:07] <edmoore> yeah
[16:07] <Laurenceb> I couldnt get it to work properly, but I did get it flashed onto an AVR... I think I hadn't optimised it correctly
[16:07] <Laurenceb> the way I had it, I think it needed 2KB of ram
[16:07] <edmoore> well that's just something to do when you have an entire packet of pro-plus and no girlfriend
[16:08] <Laurenceb> lmao
[16:09] <jcoxon> edmoore, personal experience?
[16:09] <Laurenceb> well I managed to use a cool debugging technique where you can print out stack sizes
[16:09] <jcoxon> :-p
[16:09] <edmoore> well I never
[16:09] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:09] <Laurenceb> the free space went down to 0 bytes and it hung, so that was pretty conclusive :P
[16:09] <edmoore> speaking of no girlfriend, I am looking forward to watching the docking tomorrow
[16:09] <Laurenceb> *groan*
[16:10] <Laurenceb> why is electronics strangely sexual
[16:10] <jcoxon> edmoore, I'm sorry
[16:10] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, get out
[16:10] <Laurenceb> hehe
[16:10] <jcoxon> electronics aren't 'sexual' in any form
[16:11] <Laurenceb> its just sex with subatomic particles
[16:11] <edmoore> electrons are gits
[16:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.esa.int/esa-mmg/mmg.pl?mission=Automated+Transfer+Vehicle+%28ATV%29&type=I
[16:13] <jcoxon> did you guys see the BBC flying penguins?
[16:13] <Laurenceb> heard about it
[16:14] <Laurenceb> did you see virgel?
[16:14] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:14] <edmoore> yep
[16:14] <Laurenceb> that was a good one, had me convinced for a minute
[16:21] <Laurenceb> I wonder if its possible to make an automatic egg boiler...
[16:21] <edmoore> whats your parameter for boiled?
[16:21] <Laurenceb> I always find they arent correctly cooked
[16:21] <edmoore> you could send ultrasonics through the egg
[16:21] <Laurenceb> I'm wondering if you could use ultrasound to see if the insuide is solid
[16:21] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:22] <edmoore> and worked out a raw egg transfer function and a boiled egg transfer function
[16:22] <jcoxon> haha
[16:22] <Laurenceb> hmm hopefully something simple would happen
[16:22] <Laurenceb> like the speed of propogation
[16:23] <edmoore> probably
[16:23] <edmoore> although they both probably have a similar density
[16:23] <Laurenceb> I know, you could have a container full of boiling water - like a kettle, then transmit ultrasound from one side
[16:23] <Laurenceb> the egg would be like a lens
[16:23] <Laurenceb> so the interference pattern at the far side would change...
[16:24] <edmoore> you'd need an error of receivers wouldn't you then to measure the pattern?
[16:24] <edmoore> or perhaps a mesh of optical fibres
[16:24] <Laurenceb> hopefully only three or so
[16:24] <edmoore> whose back-reflective properties would be a function of the pressure waves distorting them
[16:24] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:25] <edmoore> you could boild the egg with ultrasound
[16:25] <Laurenceb> you'd want absorbant sides
[16:25] <Laurenceb> to the container
[16:25] <Laurenceb> data processing would be tricky...
[16:25] <Laurenceb> still it might work, maybe I should try it
[16:25] <edmoore> yeah, you'd need a fairly beefy optical spectrum analyser
[16:25] <edmoore> but you'd have a decent egg
[16:26] <Laurenceb> it might be possible to make it affordable
[16:28] <Laurenceb> you might get away with a very high frequency and narrow beam directed into the side of the egg
[16:29] <edmoore> if you could get some kind of a coupling between egg and US transmitter, you'd save a receiver
[16:29] <Laurenceb> actaully a wide beam, making it coherent
[16:30] <Laurenceb> and making alignment easier
[16:30] <Laurenceb> you'd just transmit a short pulse every so often, a la robotics range devices
[16:32] <Laurenceb> have an lcd on the front, with an animation of what was happening to the inside of the egg
[16:32] <edmoore> lol
[16:32] <edmoore> can you microwave eggs?
[16:33] <Laurenceb> no, they explode
[16:33] <edmoore> shame
[16:34] <Laurenceb> hmm I've got to go into business selling this :P
[16:34] <jcoxon> could you put a small hole in them
[16:34] <jcoxon> then microwave?
[16:34] <Laurenceb> I think the insides would be squirted out, but I've never tried
[16:35] <edmoore> do it in the name of science, Laurenceb
[16:35] <jcoxon> of course video it
[16:38] <Laurenceb> I think ultrasound at around 1 MHz from a transducer around 20mm diameter might work
[16:39] <Laurenceb> then the egg would be held in a cage, in the boiling water
[16:39] <edmoore> that'd be a fun thing to drive
[16:39] <Laurenceb> you'd only have a few cycles
[16:40] <Laurenceb> its very similar to the robotics ones, so you could copy the designs
[16:41] <Laurenceb> there would be lots of interference from bubble formation, and bubbles passing in front of the egg, so you would have to repeat as soon as possible and process the results, average and discard anomalous results
[16:42] <Laurenceb> the front off the egg would provide a nice strong marker
[16:42] <Laurenceb> of*
[16:42] <edmoore> could you pressure-cook the egg?
[16:42] <Laurenceb> how would that help?
[16:43] <edmoore> stop bubbles
[16:43] <edmoore> you'd just hold the water at 100 degrees
[16:43] <edmoore> not boiling
[16:43] <Laurenceb> if a bubble was between the transducer and egg, the front of the egg wont be in the right place
[16:43] <Laurenceb> so you'll know
[16:44] <edmoore> ok
[16:44] <Laurenceb> I'm wondering if I could actually do an experiment with one of the devantech units
[16:47] <Laurenceb> no they arent anywhere like fast enough :(
[16:47] <edmoore> exactly
[16:47] <edmoore> most COTs stuff is 40khz
[16:47] <edmoore> i'm wondering how you'll generate 1mhz
[16:47] <Laurenceb> medical stuff runs at several Mhz
[16:48] <edmoore> raid a maternity ward
[16:48] <Laurenceb> oh doh
[16:48] <Laurenceb> I know
[16:48] <Laurenceb> capt scan it
[16:48] <Laurenceb> I built a capt scanner, its in my shed :P
[16:49] <Laurenceb> tho its rather mental and inefficient, I could make something a lot better now
[16:49] <edmoore> lordy
[16:49] <edmoore> and avr based one?
[16:49] <Laurenceb> no, you manually entered the data
[16:50] <Laurenceb> as I said it was a bit mad :P
[16:51] <Laurenceb> but you could easily make a paractical one with a capacitance IC, you can get really nice ones for touch sensors
[16:52] <Laurenceb> I've been meaning to make a good one for ages, but cant work out a decent decoding algorythm
[16:53] <Laurenceb> my main problem is that I dont understand how to calculate the resistance between two points in a grid of random resistors
[16:53] <Laurenceb> tho it could just be done with spice...
[16:54] <edmoore> just claculating the resistance between any two points in a grid of uniform resistors can be pretty feindish
[16:55] <Laurenceb> yes, when you have points x and y, and a 2D array of resistor vaues
[16:55] <Laurenceb> I'm lost
[16:56] <Laurenceb> anyway, if you used spice, then you have a way to work forwards
[16:56] <Laurenceb> you can use a monte carlo or genetic algorythm type technique to work backwards
[16:57] <edmoore> you can doa diagonal using fourier transforms
[16:57] <edmoore> do a diagonal*
[16:57] <Laurenceb> oh yes, I remember reading that
[16:57] <edmoore> but the 'knights move' one (a 2 x 1 diagonal) has me totally stumped
[16:57] <Laurenceb> hmm spice seems to work
[16:58] <edmoore> dunno...
[16:58] <edmoore> spice wasn't programmed by god
[16:58] <Laurenceb> I think it just solves the problem by interating over timesteps, calculating currents and voltages
[16:58] <Laurenceb> after quite a few iterations, it will arive at the solution
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[17:01] <Laurenceb> you would think that that requires imaginary capacitors and things to be added to make the number sensible...
[17:01] <Laurenceb> but I guess there are workarounds
[17:02] <Laurenceb> if you treat things algebraically in places
[17:03] <Laurenceb> what I was thinking for a capt scanner is to mount the object on a turntable, that way you can collect a large dataset with minimal complexity
[17:05] <Laurenceb> edmoore: http://www.esa.int/export/images/Flying_operations_104_L.jpg
[17:05] <edmoore> yeah I really want one of them!
[17:05] Nick change: Akadecca -> akawaka
[17:06] <akawaka> don't know if johan mentioned it but I recovered the balloon payload yesterday
[17:06] <Laurenceb> I saw on the wiki :P
[17:06] <Laurenceb> do you have photos off it?
[17:06] <jcoxon> akawaka, yeah i updated ukhas site
[17:06] <edmoore> oh oh oh!
[17:06] <edmoore> pics?
[17:06] <akawaka> http://picasaweb.google.com/martin.donlon/Balloon
[17:07] <akawaka> looks like the camera only worked up to about 40000ft
[17:07] <Laurenceb> :(
[17:07] <Laurenceb> what sort was it?
[17:08] <jcoxon> akawaka, still they are some good pictures - the weather looked nice
[17:08] <jcoxon> unlike here where its nice and overcast
[17:08] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:08] <akawaka> cheap polaroid a550
[17:09] <akawaka> don't really mind about the pictures, we got all the equipment back so another launch is easier
[17:09] <Laurenceb> yes, best to go cheap :P
[17:09] <jcoxon> right i'll bbl
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[17:09] <Laurenceb> do you think the batteries went?
[17:10] <Laurenceb> in the camera?
[17:11] <akawaka> yeah, we messed up
[17:11] <akawaka> brought fresh batteries with us, which turned out to be dead
[17:11] <akawaka> and after we removed the lcd screen we realised the flash was going with every picture
[17:11] <Laurenceb> woops
[17:11] <akawaka> might be a side effect of not having the lcd on
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[17:12] <Laurenceb> well, I set my camera to low quality on one launch
[17:12] <akawaka> several times the camera changed to black and white mode, so removing the lcd might have left a floating input or something
[17:12] <natrium42> hi
[17:12] <Laurenceb> everyone messes up at some point :p
[17:12] <Laurenceb> hi natrium
[17:12] <natrium42> akawaka, got any pics?
[17:12] <akawaka> also, it took about 60 photos on the ground while we launched
[17:12] <edmoore> oh cameras are just a law unto themselves anyway
[17:13] <akawaka> but, we got the gps and the aprs transmitter back, which were the most expensive parts
[17:14] <akawaka> the pc that was on there didn't seem to last for more than a few minutes, not sure what happend to it
[17:14] <Laurenceb> pc ?
[17:14] <Laurenceb> on the payload?
[17:16] <akawaka> yup, mini pc104 board
[17:16] <Laurenceb> ah nice
[17:16] <Laurenceb> what os ?
[17:16] <akawaka> linux
[17:16] <Laurenceb> nice
[17:17] <natrium42> was it ok to reboot?
[17:17] <akawaka> yeah, its weird, looking at the logs now
[17:18] <akawaka> booted up at 2:22, which was when we connected the power supply
[17:18] <natrium42> on halo2, the gumstix stopped working right after launch
[17:18] <natrium42> so i sent a command to reboot it and it was back on fine
[17:18] <natrium42> those intermittent problems are always weird
[17:19] <akawaka> then there is nothing else in the log, but it booted again at 5:10
[17:19] <akawaka> wonder if that was landing
[17:19] <edmoore> I want a ball pit
[17:20] <natrium42> akawaka, perhaps power connector was loose?
[17:20] <Laurenceb> ooh that reminds me, I need to set the aerosol project to start running at bootup
[17:20] <Laurenceb> how do I set a command to run at bootup?
[17:21] <akawaka> in linux? create an init script for it
[17:21] <akawaka> /etc/rc.d or whatever
[17:21] <akawaka> and symlink it to whatever runlevels you want it to start at
[17:21] <Laurenceb> right
[17:22] <Laurenceb> so all scripts in /etc/ run at boot?
[17:23] <akawaka> no, you'll have some directory like /etc/init.d/rc3.d or /etc/rc.d/rc3.d
[17:23] <akawaka> and it will have a bunch of symlinks S30ssh, etc
[17:23] <Laurenceb> ah yes, theres init.d on the ngw100 installation
[17:23] <akawaka> those scripts get run at start up
[17:23] <Laurenceb> hang on, which scripts?
[17:24] <Laurenceb> theres a list of scripts in /etc/init.d/rc3.d ?
[17:24] <akawaka> the layout changes from distribution to distribution
[17:24] <natrium42> scripts in that folder get executed automatically, Laurenceb
[17:25] <Laurenceb> which folder?
[17:25] <natrium42> init.d folder
[17:25] <Laurenceb> sorry, I'm a bit confused
[17:25] <Laurenceb> cool
[17:25] <Laurenceb> ok
[17:25] <akawaka> the S* scripts get run when entering that runlevel
[17:25] <edmoore> afk bbiab
[17:25] <Laurenceb> this sounds like my system
[17:25] <akawaka> the K* scripts get run when leaving it
[17:25] <edmoore> zomglolzor rofl etc
[17:25] <Laurenceb> omfg lmao
[17:25] <natrium42> thank you edmoore !
[17:26] <Laurenceb> XD
[17:26] <Laurenceb> anyway, my system has /etc/init.d so it should be simple
[17:27] <natrium42> yah, it's linux :D
[17:27] <natrium42> everything is simple
[17:27] <akawaka> does it have /etc/rc.d or anything similar?
[17:27] <akawaka> usually the init.d directory isn't run itself
[17:27] <Laurenceb> cant remeber, it might do
[17:28] <Laurenceb> so what should I do if its not run, edit rc.d ?
[17:29] <akawaka> actually, looks like it just has the init.d directory
[17:29] <akawaka> should be fine
[17:29] <akawaka> getting out of here, work time
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[17:31] <natrium42> cya
[17:32] <natrium42> akawaka, btw, i noticed you work on consoles -- pretty cool
[17:32] <natrium42> have done any work with NDS?
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[17:57] <Hiena> Good evening!
[17:57] <Laurenceb> I was waiting for that :P
[17:57] <Laurenceb> hello
[18:12] <Laurenceb> are there any photos of this electric hanglider your making?
[18:14] <Hiena> Not, yet. We are in the planning, and early development phase. Everything is depends on the sponsor, who was little bit shocked when i said him the total amount of the magnets.
[18:15] <Laurenceb> neodinium ?
[18:16] <Hiena> The cheapest one. 1.5USD/each and we need 240 pieces.
[18:17] <Hiena> The magnet cost is 1/3th of my monthly salary, so i'm kind of carefull with this project.
[18:21] <Laurenceb> not a great salary :/ I understand why people come to the UK
[18:25] <Hiena> Yup. And i'm doing plenty of research thing from this money. It gaves a good scavenger mentality. Like recycling the broken foam wings.
[18:27] <__johan__> Here is some more info on the Pong balloon launch. http://boredgamedeveloper.com/high_altitude/index.php/1_-_Pong
[18:30] <Hiena> __johan__, Where did you lost the telemetry communication?
[18:30] <__johan__> Do you mean the gps radio?
[18:30] <__johan__> APRS?
[18:31] <natrium42> __johan__, cool
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[18:31] <Hiena> Yup.
[18:31] <mc-> paging edmoore
[18:32] <natrium42> UFO! http://picasaweb.google.com/martin.donlon/Balloon/photo#5184494592725013682
[18:32] <__johan__> We got the signal all the way to the end. Last reception was 3844 feet.
[18:32] <Laurenceb> hi mc-
[18:32] <__johan__> Its all in the google earth kml.
[18:33] <Laurenceb> mc-, private msg
[18:33] <natrium42> looks like an overall successful launch, too bad about the camera stopping working
[18:34] <natrium42> but you can fix that for next time :D
[18:34] <mc-> hi LB
[18:34] <__johan__> Yeah, bummer though, I realy wanted a picture of black sky.
[18:35] <natrium42> same thing happened with my first flight
[18:35] <natrium42> camera stopped working at 5.6km :S
[18:35] <natrium42> i think something went wrong with the USB connector
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[18:36] <Laurenceb> mc-, can you go to highaltitude99 ?
[18:36] <__johan__> Yeah. Sucks. I replaced the batterys on the camera and it would not power up.
[18:36] <mc-> ok
[18:36] <__johan__> I think the connectors on the camera was bad. I wish we had hooked it up to the main 5 volts power instead. That was all lithium batteries.
[18:37] <natrium42> ah
[18:37] <__johan__> natrium42: You did that serial port fort NDS right?
[18:37] <natrium42> i tend to prefer soldering instead of using connectors
[18:37] <natrium42> __johan__, yeah
[18:39] <natrium42> you can use connectors in prototype phase, but remove them and solder directly before the flight...
[18:39] <natrium42> bbl, optometrist
[18:39] Action: Hiena nods.
[18:39] <__johan__> We had a deadline for COD5 the week before, 1 am many nights. And we did the balloon payload theday before, 1:30 am. We messed some things up.
[18:39] <__johan__> Apparently nothing got loose during the flight.
[18:39] <natrium42> __johan__, as long as you retrieve it, it's a success IMO
[18:40] <natrium42> so you have done very well for 1st mission
[18:40] Action: natrium42 afk
[18:40] <__johan__> Yeah. We where supprised we got anything. I ran the base station, and in the begining I thought we got the same GPS signal all the time.
[18:41] <natrium42> (and everybody seems to finish everything last minute :P)
[18:41] <__johan__> Turns out the balloon went almost straight up. I noticed the altitude changing after a while.
[18:42] <__johan__> We'll post a postmortem in a while. The design of the balloon totaly changed the last night. We did it in a totaly different way than we planed.
[18:43] <__johan__> We have an extra balloon. I'll see if I can convince the other guys to do another launch next week.
[18:48] Nick change: __johan__ -> _johan__
[19:14] <edmoore> mc-: am here
[19:22] <mc-> check you skype
[19:22] <edmoore> just did
[19:22] <edmoore> I don't know what a balance mark is so I guess the answer is no :)
[19:23] <mc-> oh, I was hoping you'd understand...
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[20:39] <natrium42> _johan__, do you still have any helium left?
[20:47] <akawaka> we did, but we had to return the tank
[20:47] <akawaka> should probably buy our own tank
[20:50] <natrium42> it looked big enough for two launches
[20:51] <akawaka> yeah, we still had about half a tank left
[20:53] <natrium42> should have asked for rental extension :P
[20:53] <natrium42> the gas is more expensive than the rental on the tank most likely :P
[20:54] <akawaka> probably gonna be a month or so before we launch again
[20:54] <natrium42> ah okay
[20:54] <natrium42> one place i rented from gave a rental for 1 month
[20:55] <natrium42> another place gave only a week :S
[21:22] <_johan__> Ah. Yeah, I did not manage to convince the rest of the crew. They wanted to catch up on their sleep, lazy bastards.
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