highaltitude.log.20080331

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[00:06] <Laurenceb> right early start 2morrow
[00:06] <Laurenceb> cya all
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[00:36] <fuzzylugnut> Gaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
[00:36] <fuzzylugnut> A123 really really needs to come out with the 10Ah batteries.
[00:53] <fuzzylugnut> alright, movie time
[00:53] <fuzzylugnut> laters
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[08:47] <Hiena> Good morning!
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[13:30] <edmoore> afternoon all
[13:50] <Laurenceb> hi ed
[13:51] <Laurenceb> I was just talking to diamond point
[13:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.dpie.com/gps/lasseniq.html
[13:51] <edmoore> is that a figure of speech or have you lost your mind?
[13:51] <Laurenceb> they quoted me £20 for a lassen iq
[13:51] <Laurenceb> £10 for an antenna
[13:52] <Laurenceb> lmao "Diamond point international Ltd"
[13:53] <Laurenceb> they dont stock the sockets, but you can get them from here http://www.toby.co.uk/content/catalogue/products.asp?series=CLP-1xx-02-x-xx-xx
[13:53] <edmoore> lb really? inc vat?
[13:54] <Laurenceb> ex vat I'm afraid
[13:54] <Laurenceb> but its cheaper than sparkfun
[13:54] <edmoore> do you think they'd do a price break for 5 uits?
[13:54] <edmoore> I'll get 3 if they can
[13:54] <Laurenceb> probably
[13:54] <edmoore> maybe 4 if I can be persuaded
[13:54] <Laurenceb> and I'll take the 5th
[13:55] <edmoore> yeah
[13:56] <Laurenceb> they seem friendly, told me about the toby site
[13:56] <Laurenceb> as rs and farnell dont stock the sockets
[13:57] <edmoore> oooh yes
[13:57] <edmoore> they could have just the thing I want, actually
[13:59] <Laurenceb> postage is cheap :P
[14:00] <edmoore> havn't got that far yet :)
[14:01] <edmoore> eagle doesn't have a particularly good range of smd crystals in the library
[14:01] <edmoore> it's very annoying
[14:01] <Laurenceb> use sparkfuns library
[14:01] <edmoore> they don't have it either
[14:01] <Laurenceb> hmm what size?
[14:02] <edmoore> 7 x 5mm
[14:02] <Laurenceb> oh, I used 3.5x5
[14:02] <edmoore> doesn't seem to come in a 8mhz flavour
[14:02] <edmoore> as far as i can tell
[14:02] <edmoore> oooooh wait
[14:02] <Laurenceb> I'm sure it does
[14:02] <edmoore> that problem can be easily circumvented
[14:04] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/1209998/passives/product.us0?sku=SARONIX-NKS7-080-20
[14:04] <edmoore> ok, well I *totally* missed that when i searched last night
[14:05] Action: edmoore shoots himself in the head
[14:05] <edmoore> blimey, not cheap
[14:05] <Laurenceb> farnell isnt
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[14:07] <edmoore> i like toby
[14:07] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/7941274/passives/product.us0?sku=ABRACON-ABM3B-12.000MHZ-B2-T
[14:07] <Laurenceb> ^ I use those for the radio pcb
[14:08] <edmoore> £15 per order!
[14:08] <Laurenceb> uh
[14:08] <Laurenceb> arggg
[14:08] <Laurenceb> what have they done now :(
[14:08] <edmoore> US stock
[14:09] <Laurenceb> oh well theres got to be something equivalent
[14:12] <edmoore> Laurenceb: was that £10 for the embedded antenna?
[14:13] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:13] <edmoore> cool
[14:13] <edmoore> well yeah, put us down for at least 3
[14:14] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/1538840/passives/product.us0?sku=AKER-C5S-12.000-12-3030-X
[14:14] <Laurenceb> ^ that will work... when it arrives
[14:15] <Laurenceb> I didnt realise that the crystals have different load cap requirements
[14:15] <Laurenceb> woops
[14:16] <Laurenceb> that might be why my datarate seems to be off
[14:18] <Laurenceb> but unlikely as the scope shows it working correctly
[14:19] <edmoore> yeah i think it's fairly inexact, that science
[14:19] <edmoore> some people don't bother with load caps at all. highly unrecommended but i t can work
[14:20] <Laurenceb> yes, the avr datasheets say +-10 or 20 % makes no difference
[14:39] <Laurenceb> theres some interesting stuff here - http://michelebavaro.blogspot.com/
[14:52] <edmoore> what was the name of that transistor?
[14:53] <edmoore> the nice one
[14:55] <edmoore> got it nvm
[15:00] <Laurenceb> sorry, was afk cooking :P
[15:00] <edmoore> afk?
[15:01] <Laurenceb> away from keyboard
[15:01] <edmoore> ah - always wondered that
[15:24] <Laurenceb> it actually stays light until a decent time in the evening now
[15:25] <Laurenceb> I might actually do something
[15:38] <Laurenceb> like erm fix the fence :/
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[15:39] <Hiena> ' morning!
[15:39] <edmoore> afternoon
[15:42] Action: Laurenceb looks at his fence
[15:42] <Laurenceb> hmm this is going to take a while :(
[15:44] <Laurenceb> its too windy round here everything gets trashed
[15:49] <edmoore> Laurenceb: did you ever have a problem with the smd xtal using the default sparkfun library?
[15:49] <Laurenceb> seems fine
[15:49] <edmoore> basically, can I leave VDD unconnected?
[15:49] <Laurenceb> my first attempt was badly soldered
[15:49] <Laurenceb> but the second one was ok
[15:49] <Laurenceb> erm just a sec
[15:50] <Laurenceb> well I've only connected two pins
[15:50] <edmoore> ok cool
[15:50] <edmoore> suits me lovely
[15:50] <edmoore> ty
[15:50] <Laurenceb> I've used 3.2 x 5mm crystals
[15:50] <edmoore> I'll ground ground, but just because i can and to keep emc down
[15:50] <Laurenceb> but 3.5x5 should work as well
[15:50] <edmoore> don't spose it matters so much on a radio board :)
[15:51] <edmoore> this is 5 x 3.2
[15:51] <Laurenceb> cool
[15:51] <edmoore> using the standard one in the spark library
[15:51] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:52] <edmoore> coolio
[15:52] <edmoore> ty
[15:52] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:dscn0957.jpg?cache=cache
[15:53] <Laurenceb> ^ thats my first attempt, the soldering went a bit wrong, but it worked ok
[15:53] <edmoore> i'm going to try and hot-air this board
[15:54] <Laurenceb> solder paste?
[15:55] <Laurenceb> where was you ho air station from?
[15:58] <edmoore> ebay
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[15:58] <edmoore> I wish you could tell eagle to show everything but GND air wires
[15:59] <edmoore> I'll do a big pour at the end, in the mean time, stoip clogging up my screen!
[15:59] <Laurenceb> use a polygon
[15:59] <Laurenceb> ok
[15:59] <edmoore> oh i will, there'll be a ground plane, but I don't want it getting in the way for ages
[15:59] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[15:59] <Laurenceb> I'd just put it in now
[16:00] <Laurenceb> greeting s jcoxon
[16:01] <jcoxon> hello Laurenceb and edmoore
[16:03] <jcoxon> i've managed to fix the log search script
[16:03] <jcoxon> the question is - should it search all the logs or just the last few months?
[16:04] <Laurenceb> make it do both ;P
[16:04] <edmoore> what he said ^
[16:04] <Laurenceb> you could have a checkbox
[16:04] <Laurenceb> or better a checkbox to allow you to enter how far back it goes
[16:05] <jcoxon> hmmmm, i'd have to think that through though
[16:05] <jcoxon> too much work
[16:05] <jcoxon> i could of course have 2 search scripts
[16:05] <Laurenceb> i.e. <tick> to select from the last <enterybox > months
[16:05] <jcoxon> oh well, a job for another day
[16:12] <jcoxon> ooo Laurenceb are you ordering lassen iq gps units
[16:12] Action: jcoxon is reading the logs
[16:12] <Laurenceb> hopefully :P
[16:13] <jcoxon> could i get one
[16:13] <Laurenceb> sure
[16:13] <edmoore> we've got our 5
[16:13] <edmoore> woot
[16:13] <jcoxon> i was looking at diamond point place
[16:14] <jcoxon> though it was a weekend so i didn't call them about prices
[16:14] <Laurenceb> I'm not sure whos ordering, ideally we'd like to avoid vat
[16:14] <jcoxon> i wish those sort of companies displayed their prices
[16:14] <edmoore> you know who that means
[16:14] <Laurenceb> :P
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[18:15] <Laurenceb> I was just watching the atv on nasa tv
[18:15] <Laurenceb> looked good
[18:27] <edmoore> oh oh oh
[18:27] <natrium42> is it still on?
[18:28] <Laurenceb> fraid not
[18:29] <Laurenceb> you missed it :(
[18:29] <edmoore> woman's history month
[18:29] <edmoore> sod that
[18:29] <Laurenceb> lmao
[18:29] <Laurenceb> sexist
[18:30] <Laurenceb> its on bbc news
[18:30] <Laurenceb> omg what have they done to their site
[18:30] <edmoore> good lord
[18:30] <edmoore> it's all wierd
[18:30] <Laurenceb> haha
[18:30] <Laurenceb> no good photos
[18:31] <Laurenceb> there were some very cool shots on nasa tv
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[18:31] <edmoore> It's not very ipod friendly
[18:31] <edmoore> (tell me when you get bored of this)
[18:32] <edmoore> (I will probably ignore you, though)
[18:32] <Laurenceb> most people dont use an ipod as a web browser XD
[18:33] <Laurenceb> "dainty space truck" what are they smoking?
[18:38] <Laurenceb> edmoore: http://webservices.esa.int/blog/gallery/1/31032008174_crop.jpg
[18:39] <Laurenceb> interesting, they appears to be running XP
[18:40] <edmoore> nice
[18:43] <Laurenceb> it looks like XP to me
[18:46] <edmoore> if these locosys modules work out I'll be delighted
[18:48] <Laurenceb> locosys?
[18:49] <edmoore> the ones mc was looking at
[18:49] <Laurenceb> sshhhh
[18:49] <Laurenceb> but yes they are nice, not sure about altitude limits
[18:50] <natrium42> nice --> http://webservices.esa.int/blog/album/1/31
[18:50] <edmoore> have asked ublox
[18:50] <Laurenceb> cool
[18:50] <Laurenceb> http://webservices.esa.int/blog/resource/1/341
[18:51] <natrium42> they should have docked! :P
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[19:08] <akawaka> http://aprs.fi/?call=KI6PFW-9&mt=m&z=11&timerange=86400
[19:16] <natrium42> wow, cool
[19:16] <natrium42> so it worked?
[19:16] <akawaka> yeah, didn't find it though
[19:17] <akawaka> didn't get a report below 3000ft landing amoungst a bunch of hills
[19:17] <natrium42> looks like it got to about 30km alt
[19:17] <Laurenceb> wow nice work
[19:18] <jcoxon> well done akawaka
[19:18] <jcoxon> could you run some landing predictions?
[19:19] <akawaka> 98000ft
[19:19] <natrium42> why are there so many data points at the end?
[19:19] <natrium42> so it landed?
[19:19] <akawaka> yeah, gonna do that and i'll drive up there this week
[19:19] <natrium42> aah, ok
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[19:19] <Laurenceb> if you used the ascent data to calculate wind vectors, then run a simulation from the last datapoint
[19:19] <natrium42> so you got the landing coord
[19:20] <Laurenceb> use the decent data to calculate the drag coefficient
[19:20] <akawaka> no, last coord was at 3800ft
[19:20] <akawaka> travelling at 6mph i think
[19:20] <jcoxon> :-), akawaka if you send me a few details i'll stick the launch on the ukhas wiki if you want
[19:20] <Laurenceb> akawaka: look at the landing spot prediction page on the wiki, should show you the basics
[19:20] <akawaka> cool!
[19:20] <akawaka> Laurenceb: thanks
[19:21] <akawaka> gotta find out who owns the land, its all grazing land, lots and lots of hills, lots and lots of no trespassing signs
[19:21] <Laurenceb> IMO you should be able to get a very accurate prediction from your data
[19:21] <jcoxon> yeah you have some good last data points
[19:21] <jcoxon> aprs is very cool
[19:22] <Laurenceb> well i need to fix a fence and its getting dark :/
[19:22] <Laurenceb> bbl
[19:25] <natrium42> akawaka, great work and hoping that you find it for some data
[19:25] <akawaka> Laurenceb: we think so too
[19:25] <akawaka> natrium42: thanks
[19:25] <akawaka> it was really cool
[19:25] <akawaka> the launch was quiet a rush
[19:26] <natrium42> how was the sky?
[19:26] <natrium42> could you see it for a while?
[19:26] <akawaka> clear blue
[19:26] <natrium42> ooh :)
[19:27] <natrium42> pics from launch please! :P
[19:28] <akawaka> hopefully someone took some in the excitement:)
[19:28] <akawaka> we just pulled in on a piece of grass on the side of the road
[19:28] <akawaka> got some strange looks from passing motorists
[19:29] <jcoxon> haha
[19:30] <akawaka> was worried it was going to hit the trees or slowly blow across the road
[19:30] <akawaka> but it shot up
[19:31] <akawaka> cartainly learned a lot, we'll write it all up
[19:31] <jcoxon> akawaka, do you guys have a name for hte balloon/payload/mission?
[19:33] <akawaka> balloon was called The John R Hall, in memory of a friend of mine
[19:33] <akawaka> mission is probably best called pong-1
[19:33] <jcoxon> just putting it on the ukhas site
[19:40] <akawaka> cool, we'll get you some pictures to you at some point
[19:40] <jcoxon> parachute descent?
[19:41] <akawaka> yeah
[19:45] <jcoxon> done
[19:46] <jcoxon> only a little entry
[19:46] <jcoxon> but will add more soon!
[19:46] <jcoxon> natrium42, i've finally reordered a new gm862 module for FHALP-3
[20:02] <akawaka> http://picasaweb.google.com/martin.donlon/Balloon
[20:03] <natrium42> jcoxon, coolz
[20:07] <akawaka> i'd upload more pictures, but 75% seem to have my ass crack in them for some reason
[20:09] <natrium42> akawaka, this pic is cool --> http://picasaweb.google.com/martin.donlon/Balloon/photo#5183983126544569106
[20:09] <natrium42> i like the contrast to that hill
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[20:18] <akawaka> most important lesson learned, for me anyway, is that usb devices can be sensitive to rf interference
[20:25] <Laurenceb> yeh I've resurrected my old compaq :P
[20:25] <Laurenceb> cool photo :P
[20:25] <Laurenceb> the real time clock thought it was the early middle ages
[20:26] <edmoore> what was the link? Missed it
[20:28] <akawaka> which?
[20:29] <edmoore> nvm, came back to computer and got it
[20:29] <Laurenceb> if you ever build a time machine, windows wont boot in 1120 AD
[20:29] <edmoore> yeah the rf interference is a scary one
[20:29] <akawaka> usb hub was resetting often when the packet radio would transmit
[20:30] <akawaka> ended up not launching with it
[20:30] <edmoore> infact, jcoxon, I was thinking of proposing a beaord which does both gsm and rtty, ie a comms board, and have that seperate to the flight computer. you can shield it off that way
[20:31] <edmoore> it can sit at the bottom of the box wrapped in space blanket
[20:31] <Laurenceb> 10mw is less likely to give any issues
[20:31] <akawaka> yeah, this was 1W
[20:31] <edmoore> it may do up close
[20:31] <edmoore> but it's the gsm that worries me a bit too - it's 2-3W
[20:31] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:32] <Laurenceb> I've never had problems
[20:32] <Laurenceb> bbl
[20:33] <jcoxon> edmoore, i'm a little confused
[20:33] <edmoore> Nvm
[20:34] <jcoxon> okeydokey
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[23:10] <Laurenceb> hello Rocketboy1
[23:12] <Rocketboy1> hi laurenceb
[23:13] <Laurenceb> I just got my old compaq running, it thought it was 1120
[23:13] <Laurenceb> AD
[23:13] <Rocketboy1> ha
[23:13] <Laurenceb> windows wouldnt boot, something to bear in mind if you make a time machine
[23:14] <Laurenceb> I found a fairly cheap lassen iq supplier in the UK
[23:15] <Rocketboy1> yeah I tried once - this is what happened http://halshop.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/phpw9jvl0pm.jpg
[23:15] <Rocketboy1> dimond point?
[23:15] <Laurenceb> http://www.dpie.com/gps/lasseniq.html they quoted me £20 for the module, £10 for the antenna ex vat
[23:16] <natrium42> chuck norris can divide by zero :/
[23:16] <Laurenceb> groan
[23:16] <kc0wys_> oh hey
[23:17] <kc0wys_> just noticed you guys are on
[23:18] <Laurenceb> hello, havent seen you around for a bit
[23:18] <kc0wys_> yea, been a bit busy
[23:18] <Laurenceb> but, I'm afraid I've got an early start tomorrow :(
[23:18] <Laurenceb> so I'll have to be off
[23:18] <kc0wys_> ah ok
[23:19] <Laurenceb> lol sry
[23:19] <Laurenceb> bye
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[23:20] <Rocketboy1> hey kc0wys - your one of the SNOX guys right?
[23:25] <kc0wys_> no, i'm on my own
[23:25] <kc0wys_> unfortunately :/
[23:26] <Rocketboy1> oh right sorry
[23:26] <kc0wys_> no problem, i actually just updated the page on my project: http://kc0wys.com/projects/ensure/2/index.html
[23:27] <edmoore> Rocketboy1: I've been doing some more work on a tracker the same footprint as a double-AA holder. It's almost there
[23:27] <edmoore> I have an external hardware usard this time
[23:28] <edmoore> and 4 x 150mA capable IO channels
[23:28] <edmoore> built in current and voltage logging
[23:28] <edmoore> dropped the sd card in favour of a 32Mb flash chip
[23:29] <edmoore> SPI, I2C, and DAC all taken out to 1.25mm molex sockets
[23:29] <Rocketboy1> nice site - and neat (as in neat and tidy) electronics kc0wys
[23:30] <edmoore> seconded kc0wys_
[23:30] <edmoore> the backplane idea is a good one
[23:31] <kc0wys_> o thx
[23:31] <kc0wys_> yea the backplane idea was a result of my frustration in ensure-1
[23:31] <kc0wys_> wires everywhere
[23:32] <kc0wys_> i didn't realize it at the time, but i believe the edge connectors I bought on ebay are actually old 8-bit ISA slots
[23:33] <kc0wys_> same pitch and # of pins and
[23:33] <akawaka> great idea
[23:33] <edmoore> I was wondering that
[23:33] <akawaka> hate wires now
[23:33] <kc0wys_> the trade-off, though, is more weight
[23:33] <edmoore> was actually looking at ISA for something we're working on for the rockoon
[23:34] <akawaka> simm or dimm connectors might be lighter
[23:34] <kc0wys_> wait, you guys are designing a rockoon?
[23:34] <edmoore> And the meek cpus shall inherit the old buses
[23:34] <edmoore> yeah
[23:34] <edmoore> this is for the gondola, not the rockoon itself
[23:34] <kc0wys_> right
[23:34] <kc0wys_> what's your goal, altitude-wise?
[23:35] <edmoore> but the condola is a 10m launch rail/truss with various high speed cameras and parachute deployment systems and it's a bit more complicated than stuff we've attempted before
[23:35] <edmoore> space
[23:35] <akawaka> okay, got maps and predictions
[23:35] <kc0wys_> the 100km "boundary"?
[23:35] <edmoore> yup
[23:35] <kc0wys_> !
[23:35] <kc0wys_> niiice
[23:35] <akawaka> gonna head up to bakersfield tomorrow and see if i can find pong-1
[23:35] <edmoore> based around a minimum diameter M rocket, carbon fibre dart of a rocket
[23:36] <edmoore> should get to about 110km on the sims, but thats sims
[23:36] <edmoore> still, that's including a fairly lax tolerance on launch angle and other arse factors
[23:37] <kc0wys_> supposedly the space boundary had only just been broken by civilians in '06, i wonder if rockoons count. if so, you should definitely get the word out, b/c that's awesome
[23:38] <edmoore> we'll try to as we get nearer
[23:39] <edmoore> building ZP balloons is the current fun
[23:40] <kc0wys_> how successful has that been?
[23:41] <edmoore> well we've built some
[23:41] <edmoore> and test inflated them
[23:41] <edmoore> we'll test the small one as soon as we get insurance for it
[23:41] <edmoore> but building the tools to make much larger scale ones is what we're currently doing
[23:41] <edmoore> we need to get about 10kg to over 32 km
[23:42] <kc0wys_> that's a pretty massive payload, is that due to special instruments i assume?
[23:42] <edmoore> oh that's for the rockoon
[23:43] <kc0wys_> oh gotcha
[23:43] <edmoore> and 10kg is a fairly rough number, but it's ballpark
[23:43] <edmoore> hoping to get it under
[23:44] <edmoore> getting the launch rail to cope with the dynamic forces is taking a little time. As is making it so that it can be put into luggage and taken to the states!
[23:44] <kc0wys_> oh sweet, can I come? :)
[23:45] <edmoore> sure!
[23:45] Action: kc0wys_ is in the states
[23:45] <edmoore> guessed
[23:45] <kc0wys_> where are you planning to launch it?
[23:46] <edmoore> arizona at xprize cup 08, assuming it goes ahead
[23:46] <edmoore> but if it doesn't go ahead, basically as soon as we're ready and can organize it
[23:47] <kc0wys_> arizona, or new mexico?
[23:47] <edmoore> are your PCBs home-brew?
[23:48] <edmoore> new mexico, sorry. arizona is a test site if we can get permission
[23:49] <kc0wys_> o ok, yea that's not *too* far away, i'm in missouri (right in the middle)
[23:49] <kc0wys_> the pcbs are homebrew, toner transfer using a laminator
[23:49] <kc0wys_> it's usually quite frustrating
[23:49] <edmoore> good results though
[23:49] <kc0wys_> well, after a good many attempts ;)
[23:53] <kc0wys_> well i've gotta take off, it's been good talking to you
[23:53] <edmoore> yeah you too
[23:53] <edmoore> talk more soon
[23:54] <kc0wys_> alright, ya things have changed so much, last i was active on here everyone was still using gumstixes ;)
[23:54] <kc0wys_> cya
[23:54] kc0wys_ (n=kc0wys@75-130-211-146.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) left irc:
[23:54] <edmoore> never!
[23:54] <edmoore> avrs and arms for me
[00:00] --- Tue Apr 1 2008