highaltitude.log.20080329

[00:07] <rcaron> akawaka: yeah, we had horrible luck w/ soundcard packet. couldn
[00:08] <rcaron> t decode anything. we bought a couple TNC's off of ebay
[00:09] <akawaka> rcaron: it works fine with the external usb card
[00:09] <akawaka> works great actually
[00:10] <akawaka> the onboard card doesn't work though
[00:10] <akawaka> too noisey
[00:10] <akawaka> gotta make sure alsa/oss aren't converting the sample data for you
[00:10] <rcaron> amazing. i was considering it, but didn't think it was worth the attempt
[00:10] <rcaron> do you have a model/link for the usb you use?
[00:11] <akawaka> yeah, one sec
[00:12] <akawaka> http://www.usbgear.com/USBG-X3S.html
[00:12] <akawaka> that thing
[00:12] <rcaron> we'll hopefully be doing our second launch next week. we're based in Mass, so we have to drive a bit west so we don't ditch in the ocean
[00:12] <akawaka> i have several different ones and they are all the same C-Audio chip in side
[00:12] <akawaka> very simple, works with linux usb audio, simple mixer with just 4 controls
[00:13] <akawaka> (the internal card had a mixer with about 46 different controls, no shit)
[00:14] <rcaron> yeah, i've seen crap like that before. i was strongly considering throwing together a Pentium 1 and a bone-fide Sound Blaster 16 ISA card
[00:14] <rcaron> see if such an old chipset would have a better shot
[00:15] <akawaka> yeah
[00:16] <rcaron> where you launching from?
[00:16] <akawaka> might be just easier to use a tnc or make one with a pic
[00:16] <rcaron> and are you transmitting on APRS?
[00:16] <akawaka> transmitting on aprs
[00:16] <akawaka> KI6PFW-9
[00:17] <rcaron> well, the other guy bought a TNC, but i'd like a personal one. been considering building a PIC/AVR one
[00:17] <akawaka> launching in socal
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[00:17] <akawaka> probably near the coast, north of la
[00:17] <rcaron> ah, bit out of my range. good terrain though
[00:17] <akawaka> should be interesting
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[00:17] <akawaka> travelling over hills, hopefully won't land in them
[00:17] <akawaka> or on the freeway:)
[00:18] <akawaka> or in edwards airforce base, we're all non-citizens so i'm sure they'd just deport us
[00:18] <rcaron> that could be detrimental. do you have a cutdown capability?
[00:18] <akawaka> yeah
[00:18] <rcaron> command to cut before you get too close, based off of GPS
[00:20] <Laurenceb> hi all
[00:20] <Laurenceb> indeed I have been playing with avr32 linux
[00:20] <Laurenceb> it looks quite nice
[00:22] <edmoore> test
[00:22] <edmoore> wow
[00:22] <akawaka> ?
[00:22] <Laurenceb> I want to try AC97 sound
[00:22] <akawaka> ac97 is what my internal board was using
[00:22] <edmoore> am talking to you on my ipod
[00:22] <Laurenceb> with it... there are some nice tutorials on integrating an AC97 chip
[00:23] <rcaron> impressive... must be slow to type edmoore!
[00:23] <Laurenceb> edmoore: neat
[00:23] <edmoore> yep
[00:23] <akawaka> play us some janet jackson
[00:23] <Laurenceb> hehe there was a delay there
[00:23] <Laurenceb> janet jackson wtf
[00:23] <Laurenceb> *ears bleed*
[00:24] <edmoore> i wish i could
[00:24] <Laurenceb> oh well I'm knackered, cya all
[00:24] <edmoore> cya
[00:25] <edmoore> am speeding up
[00:25] <edmoore> wooo
[00:25] <Laurenceb> it been a long day of pcb design :P
[00:25] <Laurenceb> bye
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[00:34] <edmoore> this rocks
[00:35] <edmoore> Ok fun over
[01:12] <edmoore> test
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[02:10] <fuzzylugnut> http://24.116.155.170/arches_spring/arches.html
[02:10] <fuzzylugnut> spring break
[02:10] <fuzzylugnut> woooo...
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[03:16] <akawaka> what kind of regulators do you guys use for filling the balloons?
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[04:06] <natrium42> akawaka, i just used the tank valve carefully...
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[09:01] <Hiena> Good morning!
[09:43] Nick change: Hiena -> Hiena_foz
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[14:04] <edmoore> hi laurenceb
[14:04] <Laurenceb> hello
[14:04] <Laurenceb> fun day?
[14:05] <edmoore> how's it going?
[14:05] <edmoore> Not bad. Just faffing. You?
[14:05] <Laurenceb> not so bad here, horrible weather
[14:06] <Laurenceb> trying to revise.. getting distracted
[14:06] <edmoore> Tell me about it
[14:07] <Laurenceb> http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,AD7923,00.html page 21, I'm confused by the timing diagram, is it CPOL=1, CPHA=1 ?
[14:07] <edmoore> iron iPod, can't look
[14:07] <Laurenceb> lmao cool
[14:08] <Laurenceb> isnt it a bit... impractical?
[14:09] <edmoore> well its not as practical as a pc
[14:09] <edmoore> but I don't always want to be attached to a pc
[14:09] <Laurenceb> I was looking at the mac pro, its insane
[14:10] <edmoore> in what way?
[14:11] <Laurenceb> power
[14:12] <edmoore> ok am looking at your pdf
[14:12] <edmoore> on my ipod
[14:12] <edmoore> lolzer
[14:12] <Laurenceb> ha cool
[14:13] <Laurenceb> I've got one of those on the thermopile amplifier board
[14:14] <edmoore> huessed
[14:14] <edmoore> guessed*
[14:15] <Laurenceb> I keep meaning to take some photos of it, but my camera is broken
[14:15] <Laurenceb> I'll post it off to RocketBoy, as he has the enclosure and sensors
[14:28] <Laurenceb> what do you think?
[14:28] <Laurenceb> CPOL=CPHA=1?
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[16:12] <Laurenceb> how can I spellcheck a latex document?
[16:12] <Laurenceb> under linux
[16:12] <Laurenceb> isnt there a command line tool?
[16:19] <edmoore> excalibur?
[16:19] <Laurenceb> I think I can use aspell
[16:20] <Laurenceb> grr I should make notes on these things
[16:20] Action: Laurenceb googles without sucess for an aspell tutorial
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[16:24] <Laurenceb> ah nvm, got it
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[17:04] <Laurenceb> argg #latex is crazy
[17:05] <Laurenceb> I ask for some help and get "I pity you I really do *sigh*"
[17:05] <Laurenceb> almost as bad as ##c
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[17:13] <edmoore> Laurenceb: if I'm not missing anything, this outfit looks pretty promising http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppus/info.html
[17:17] <Laurenceb> hmm ireland as well = fast delivery
[17:17] <edmoore> yes
[17:17] <edmoore> I might give them a go
[17:18] <edmoore> £35usd for eurocard really isn't bad
[17:18] <edmoore> $35*
[17:19] <edmoore> well, soldermask is extra actually
[17:19] <Laurenceb> how big is that?
[17:19] <edmoore> i'm not sure their deal is so good
[17:19] <_johan_> http://www.batchpcb.com/ This one is realy good for small batches.
[17:19] <Laurenceb> oh do they have tooling?
[17:19] <Laurenceb> sure
[17:19] <edmoore> no
[17:19] <Laurenceb> no tooling cost?
[17:19] <edmoore> that's included
[17:19] <edmoore> yeah
[17:20] <Laurenceb> right
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[17:20] <edmoore> _johan_: people on here have had mixed experiences with them
[17:20] <_johan_> Ah, what has been the problem?
[17:21] <_johan_> I have never used them, just heard other people that it worked for.
[17:22] <Laurenceb> ah, with mask and silkscreen it gets more expensive
[17:22] <Laurenceb> but you can leave the silkscreen and its not bad
[17:27] <edmoore> 4layer 16cm x 10cm with soldermask and silkscreen on one side, including delivery, is £50
[17:29] <edmoore> oh wait, then there's vat
[17:29] <edmoore> nah, will risk batchpcb
[17:36] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:37] <Laurenceb> for the order I have in mind (2 of those radio boards, and two flight computers) batchpcb is hlf the price
[17:37] <Laurenceb> I'm going to make sure they know where to post it this time
[17:38] <Laurenceb> I'll send them my address in the zip, and on the online form write a suitable offensive comment about past service
[17:41] <Laurenceb> problem with batchpcb is its almost completely automated, very nice but they need some staff to answer emails and check everything is running smoothly
[17:41] <edmoore> I don't think an offensive comment will do anything
[17:42] <edmoore> and they always say that they can't afford for staff to spend time on it
[17:42] <edmoore> it's literally just a beggars-can't-be-choosers service
[17:43] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:43] <Laurenceb> come to think of it backpcb could operate without human intervention
[17:43] <Laurenceb> batchpcb*
[17:43] <edmoore> it more or less does
[17:44] <Laurenceb> explaining the problems
[17:44] <Laurenceb> oh well my uni address worked before
[17:45] <Laurenceb> albeit that it got as far as the oxford parcel force warehouse
[17:50] <edmoore> LB I forget - what was the price per sq in for 4-layer?
[17:51] <Laurenceb> $8
[17:51] <edmoore> ty
[17:52] <Laurenceb> $2.50 for double
[17:56] <Laurenceb> the lite version of eagle can only do double layer right?
[17:57] <Laurenceb> do they have an "educational license" ?
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[18:27] <edmoore> Laurenceb: sorry for not replying
[18:27] <edmoore> no, not as far as I'm aware
[18:28] <edmoore> you presumably have the radiometrix modules as a library do you?
[18:29] <Laurenceb> no sorry
[18:29] <Laurenceb> just used a couple of 0.1'' headers
[18:30] <Laurenceb> I'm not too hot at making library parts
[18:30] <Laurenceb> need to learn..
[18:31] <edmoore> it is a pain
[18:31] <edmoore> do you have the dimensions to hand?
[18:31] <Laurenceb> I cant work out how to import other parts...
[18:31] <Laurenceb> http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/NTXNRX/ntx2_pinout.gif
[18:33] <edmoore> lovely ty
[18:33] <edmoore> ok
[18:34] <edmoore> time to grind some fresh coffee and settle in for the evening
[18:34] <edmoore> it's gonna be a long one
[18:34] <Laurenceb> what are you doing/
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[18:36] <edmoore> making a 4 layer pcb
[18:36] <edmoore> a beast on one
[18:36] <edmoore> of*
[18:36] <Laurenceb> what for?
[18:39] <edmoore> balloon stuff!
[18:39] <Laurenceb> thought you had a board?
[18:40] <edmoore> yes, this is different
[18:40] <edmoore> will explain if it works
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[19:39] <fnoble> hi
[19:41] <natrium42> heya
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[19:54] <edmoore> hi fnoble_
[19:57] <fnoble_> hello
[19:58] <fnoble_> hows it going?
[19:59] <edmoore> ok
[20:00] <Laurenceb> hello guys
[20:01] <Laurenceb> edmoore: are you having dedicated gnd and vcc layers on your 4 layer pcb?
[20:01] <edmoore> yup
[20:01] <edmoore> tis the standard way
[20:01] Nick change: fnoble_ -> fnoble
[20:01] <edmoore> maybe dive in for a signal if push comes to shove
[20:02] <Laurenceb> yes, seems like s good idea
[20:02] <Laurenceb> so how many airwires do you have?
[20:03] <natrium42> edmoore, are you also using eagle?
[20:03] <edmoore> probably lots
[20:03] <edmoore> still doing schematic
[20:04] <Laurenceb> ok, I'm just interested in what sort of level of complexitiy
[20:05] <edmoore> well it certainly couldn't be accomodated in a 2 layer for the size I want
[20:05] <Laurenceb> how big?
[20:08] <Laurenceb> hmm avr datasheets seem to get worse and worse
[20:10] <Laurenceb> the mega324p has been out for ages, but still the "preliminary" datasheet
[20:12] Action: natrium42 is going to test his sat phone
[20:12] <Laurenceb> hehe cool
[20:13] <Laurenceb> good luck
[20:13] <natrium42> what's cool is that sms messages *to* the phone are free
[20:22] <natrium42> omg, it worked
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[20:27] <Laurenceb> nice :P
[20:28] <Laurenceb> hi mc-
[20:28] <natrium42> now i need to set up a data call
[20:31] <mc-> hi all
[20:31] <natrium42> hey mc-
[20:31] <natrium42> did you get your globalstar module?
[20:31] <mc-> yes
[20:32] <mc-> and got serial comms working
[20:32] <mc-> waiting for an antenna to arrive
[20:33] <mc-> http://members.shaw.ca/sonde/ do you know this guy?
[20:33] <mc-> (I know Canada is a large country)
[20:34] <edmoore> that page started cambridge university spaceflight
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[20:36] <Laurenceb> ha
[20:36] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:37] <Laurenceb> I'd actually thought of the idea before, but that site and jcoxons page came up in a quick search
[20:40] <Laurenceb> its suprisingly simple
[20:46] <Laurenceb> but its interesting that the first launch suffered the same fate as my glider of very similar design
[20:47] <mc-> I thought this link was on the ukhas home page? It's 'the' introduction to HAB
[21:00] <Laurenceb> mc-: do you have access to any pcb fab facilities?
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[21:15] <Laurenceb> lmao @ youtube "who let the children write comments?"
[21:17] <Laurenceb> any idea how delivery works from farnell?
[21:20] <mc-> LB, do you mean to populate a PCB?
[21:20] <Laurenceb> no, sorry, just etching ect
[21:21] <mc-> and don't understand the question about farnell? THey deliver just like rapid
[21:21] <mc-> I know someone who has the chemicals, but I prefer to use Olimex
[21:21] <mc-> I use to make my own PCBs, but that was years ago
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[21:22] <mc-> and drilling was a real pain
[21:22] <Laurenceb> ok nvm, thought you might be able to do something at work
[21:22] <Laurenceb> yes drilling is a pain
[21:25] <mc-> hey LB, how about building a high altitude glider?
[21:26] <Laurenceb> erm only what I'm working on right now :P
[21:26] <mc-> and copy the design of http://members.shaw.ca/sonde/ ?
[21:26] <Laurenceb> nah
[21:26] <mc-> are you using a rogallo?
[21:26] <Laurenceb> I launched one over christmas
[21:27] <Laurenceb> I'm working on a thermopile based system now, that could be rixed on anything
[21:27] <Laurenceb> fixed*
[21:28] <mc-> http://members.shaw.ca/sonde/ that doesn't need thermopiles does it?
[21:28] <mc-> it's passively stable?
[21:28] <Laurenceb> hmmm
[21:28] <Laurenceb> well the rogallo is
[21:28] <Laurenceb> but I'm thinking of using a zagi
[21:29] <mc-> isn't it better to start with a passively stable design? and then Mk2 has active stabilization?
[21:30] <Laurenceb> thats the way I'm going, the rogallo was mark 1
[21:31] <Laurenceb> check the wiki
[21:32] <mc-> hmm, it's your choice, active stabilization looks difficult, IMHO
[21:32] <Laurenceb> well theres lots of ways to do it
[21:33] <Laurenceb> a parafoil looks very easy now
[21:33] <Laurenceb> I think I could put one together with a mega168 very easily
[21:33] <Laurenceb> but the performance wouldnt be very useful
[21:34] <edmoore> the mk1 didn't work!
[21:34] <mc-> I've got a parafoil kite, how easy is it to convert it to a parafoil wing to carry a payload?
[21:34] <Laurenceb> edmoore: worked well on the ground
[21:35] <Laurenceb> but your limited to what you can do with rogallos
[21:35] <Laurenceb> they are good for learning
[21:35] <edmoore> Lol
[21:35] <edmoore> best line ever about an aircraft
[21:36] <Laurenceb> well I've done tons of test flights
[21:36] <mc-> I saw, you really tried hard
[21:37] <Laurenceb> yes, I think I've tweaked the design to its limit, the glide ratio is never going to be that good
[21:38] <Laurenceb> and another annoying thing is the way the handling changes completely under power
[21:38] <mc-> can a kite be converted to a parafoil?
[21:38] <Laurenceb> is it a parafoil kite ? :P
[21:38] <mc-> yes
[21:39] <Laurenceb> peasy :
[21:39] <mc-> does the CofG change?
[21:39] <Laurenceb> well yes
[21:39] <Laurenceb> you'll have t redo all the lines
[21:39] <fnoble> edmoore, fancy an icecream?
[21:40] <mc-> how do you know when the CofG is correct?
[21:40] <Laurenceb> it glides ok :P
[21:40] <Laurenceb> seriously, I'd say you just have to try it, I havent done this myself so I dont know where it has to be
[21:41] <Laurenceb> for rogallos, I usually make a scale model first
[21:42] <mc-> so there's no way to guess? I guess the payload has to move forward. Was thinking of running along a road to test.
[21:42] <Laurenceb> any hills nearby?
[21:42] <mc-> not big enough
[21:43] Action: Laurenceb is lucky, he has a 1:3 hill behind his house
[21:43] <mc-> the glide ratio should be better than that..
[21:43] <Laurenceb> stepladders?
[21:44] <mc-> how much weight can a parafoil carry?
[21:44] <Laurenceb> hmm <1kg maybe/
[21:44] <mc-> would a 1m wingspan carry 200g?
[21:44] <Laurenceb> easily
[21:44] <Laurenceb> have you seen my code on the wiki? just a variation of that would work
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[21:44] <Laurenceb> I'd recommend a pic/avr, gps and mlx90609
[21:44] <mc-> I'm going to start with radio control first
[21:45] <mc-> to get it flying straight
[21:45] <Laurenceb> you could save time by removing it completely, it wasted a lot of my time
[21:45] <Daviey> any recommendations on GPRS modules?
[21:45] <Laurenceb> and was never useful on test flights, as I planned them to avoid trees ect
[21:46] <Daviey> mini pci would be ideal, but seem somewhat expensive :(
[21:46] <fuzzylugnut> gps-18-lvc
[21:46] <fuzzylugnut> they're nice and robust.
[21:47] <Laurenceb> mc_: just use a mega168, boat servo, 4xAA, mlx90609 (sparkfun),and a gps
[21:47] <Laurenceb> bo some test runs without the tronics turned on - to get the c of g right, then fire it up
[21:47] <Laurenceb> do*
[21:48] <Laurenceb> you could use a tow line, but I've never tried that
[21:49] <Laurenceb> IMO a tall building would work
[21:52] <Laurenceb> what do you think/
[21:53] <edmoore> we've used tall building and tethered balloons
[21:54] <Laurenceb> tethered balloons are expensive
[21:54] Action: Laurenceb doesnt like expensive
[21:54] <edmoore> you can use them for flights afterwards
[21:54] <edmoore> fhalp 2, for instance
[21:54] <Laurenceb> hmm if your that organised
[21:54] <edmoore> we are.
[21:55] <Laurenceb> not living in Cambridge
[21:55] <Laurenceb> its not that easy for me
[22:00] <Laurenceb> I would try something like a little parafoil but the weather is lowsy and I need to work :(
[22:00] <fuzzylugnut> I recycled my balloon from a tethered launch too. its not too hard. You can use one of those mattress inflators to suck all the helium out.
[22:07] <Laurenceb> but where do you pump it to?
[22:07] <fuzzylugnut> the air
[22:07] <Laurenceb> oh
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> to deflate the balloon when you're done with it.
[22:08] <Laurenceb> lol, you recycled the balloon not the helium
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> yah.
[22:08] <Laurenceb> hardly worth it :P
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> says you
[22:08] <Laurenceb> hehe point taken
[22:14] <mc-> I've got a good deal on some GPS modules, around $20 + carriage
[22:15] <Laurenceb> cool
[22:15] <Laurenceb> what chipset?
[22:15] <mc-> atmel
[22:15] <Laurenceb> ah interesting
[22:15] <mc-> do they work above 10km?
[22:16] <Laurenceb> haven't got a clue sorry
[22:16] <mc-> it's ublox software
[22:18] <Laurenceb> right
[22:18] <Laurenceb> so how big is it?
[22:18] <mc-> 15x13mm
[22:19] <Laurenceb> the module?
[22:19] <mc-> yes
[22:19] <Laurenceb> but thats... tiny
[22:19] <Laurenceb> surface mount?
[22:20] <mc-> yes, but no antenna
[22:20] <Laurenceb> ok, its not bga is it?
[22:20] <mc-> no
[22:20] <mc-> I'll send you the datasheet
[22:20] <Laurenceb> interesting, I'd be happy to buy one or two off you
[22:22] <mc-> sent
[22:23] <Laurenceb> thanx
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[22:38] <Laurenceb> mc-: private msg
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[22:49] <natrium42> edmoore, there?
[22:50] <Laurenceb> bbl, cooking
[22:50] Action: natrium42 pokes edmoore with a sharpened stick
[22:51] <edmoore> yes, sorry missed everything. Let me get to my computer
[22:51] <natrium42> right, because you are using something else atm :D
[22:51] <edmoore> yes!
[22:51] <edmoore> woo
[22:51] <edmoore> the wonders of technology
[22:52] <edmoore> back at computer now
[22:52] <natrium42> let's go to pm
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[00:00] --- Sun Mar 30 2008