highaltitude.log.20080328

[00:00] <jcoxon> RocketBoy_, oh and I've set up a linux server which has shell accounts and also webspace if you want to play around with a linux shell
[00:00] <RocketBoy_> we need two lines for the camera - power on/off and shutter
[00:01] <RocketBoy_> and one line for the cutdown.
[00:01] <edmoore> that's fine
[00:01] <RocketBoy_> how much current can you source on the badger?
[00:01] <RocketBoy_> (on the I/O lines)
[00:02] <RocketBoy_> The current camer interface will need a good 10mA (for short periods)
[00:04] <RocketBoy_> ?
[00:05] <edmoore> sorry loo
[00:05] <edmoore> 10mA is ok
[00:05] <edmoore> will check the datasheet
[00:05] <edmoore> but I think that'd be fine
[00:06] <RocketBoy_> yeah if not then I can swap to FET based opto-couplers
[00:09] <edmoore> the datasheet seems to be hiding the numbers from me
[00:10] <RocketBoy_> OK i'm off to bed - so I have modified the Jobs section on the wiki - feel free to breakdown the jobs further
[00:10] <RocketBoy_> Drop me a line with the current later - no rush
[00:11] <RocketBoy_> night
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[00:12] <jcoxon> oooo a #boingboing channel
[00:14] <edmoore> oh bum he's gone
[00:14] <edmoore> it is infact 4ma each
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[00:18] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[00:18] <jcoxon> will have a look at the cocoamodem code tomorrow
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[00:20] <jcoxon> night
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[11:16] <Laurenceb> hi all
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[11:24] <Laurenceb> hello phatmonkey
[11:25] <phatmonkey> hello there
[11:25] <phatmonkey> I need to dash - bbl
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[11:43] <Laurenceb> edmoore: I'm going to send an order off to batchpcb this afternoon, want to add anything?
[11:44] <edmoore> gosh... I've got nothing off the top of my head, but thank you for the offer!
[11:47] <Laurenceb> I'm just fine tuning the silkscreen, batchpcb only have a limited range of font sizes
[11:47] <edmoore> oh fair-do's
[11:48] <edmoore> I thought you could silk-screen anything you want?
[11:48] <Laurenceb> maybe... but not with vector fonts
[11:48] <Laurenceb> not sure why
[11:51] <Laurenceb> is there a way to import postscript into eagle?
[11:52] <Laurenceb> so you could have logos and so on?
[11:53] <Laurenceb> $7 per board :P
[11:53] <edmoore> yes
[11:53] <edmoore> we did
[11:53] <edmoore> wow not bad :)
[11:53] <edmoore> well, we imported a vector art file
[11:53] <Laurenceb> right
[11:53] <Laurenceb> badgers?
[11:53] <edmoore> :p
[11:53] <edmoore> might be
[11:54] <edmoore> the badger badger badger badger, in fact
[11:54] <Laurenceb> lmao
[11:55] <Laurenceb> right hopefully thats my final attempt...
[11:55] <Laurenceb> waiting for the drc bot to email back is a pain
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[11:58] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/15342
[12:00] <Laurenceb> all ready to go :P
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[12:08] <Laurenceb> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/97444.pdf
[12:08] <edmoore> what is it?
[12:08] <Laurenceb> ^ using those for the cutdown transistors
[12:08] <edmoore> o yes, you mentioned
[12:08] <edmoore> yeah they are nice
[12:08] <Laurenceb> very yummy
[12:12] <Laurenceb> then http://uk.farnell.com/1100656/semiconductors/product.us0?sku=MICREL-MIC5219YM5-TR for the voltage regs
[12:13] <rcaron> wow, 10amp pulse through such a tiny package
[12:16] <Laurenceb> the lassen iq is 3.3v ?
[12:16] <edmoore> yes
[12:16] <rcaron> but wouldn't you want to use a switching regulator instead of a linear reg?
[12:17] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:17] <edmoore> wyzat?
[12:17] <Laurenceb> we have quite a bit of power
[12:17] <edmoore> yes
[12:17] <Laurenceb> using <100ma
[12:17] <edmoore> and some losses through a linear aren't necessarily a bad thing
[12:17] <Laurenceb> and lithium AA cells
[12:17] <edmoore> a bit of tempth in the payload is never a bad thing
[12:17] <rcaron> switching regs are at least twice as efficient these days, sometimes even higher
[12:17] <edmoore> temp*
[12:17] <Laurenceb> are 3000mah or so
[12:17] <rcaron> switching 80-95%, linears 20-40%
[12:18] <Laurenceb> I've used a switching regulator before, and it was a disaster
[12:18] <Laurenceb> seemed to be causing supply rail noise at low temperatore
[12:18] <Laurenceb> temperature*
[12:18] <rcaron> sorry to hear it. what did you have for a filter cap?
[12:19] <Laurenceb> yes, it was on a breakout board
[12:20] <rcaron> to each his own. linears are certainly reliable and simple to implement
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[12:23] <Laurenceb> rcaron: your new on here, welcome :D
[12:24] <Laurenceb> are you in the UK ?
[12:25] <rcaron> no, Massachusetts. we had a small, short duration HAB that we launched a couple weeks ago
[12:25] <rcaron> (USA)
[12:25] <Laurenceb> nice
[12:26] <edmoore> Laurenceb: he's been around for a bit now!
[12:26] <Laurenceb> hehe
[12:26] <rcaron> just loitering mostly though
[12:26] <edmoore> rcaron: what nice switched module solutions do you know of? I'm interested if you've had good experiences with them
[12:26] <Laurenceb> we've been launching for a couple of years now
[12:28] <edmoore> Laurenceb: what's the batchpcb price per area for 4 layer, off the top of your head?
[12:28] <Laurenceb> $8 per square inch
[12:28] <rcaron> i just checked my bookmarks and I guess all my switching regulator stuff is at home. so i'll have to get back to you on that edmoore
[12:28] <edmoore> amazing
[12:28] <edmoore> ok no problem, thank you
[12:28] <rcaron> i haven't used them on balloon / low-temp applications though
[12:29] <Laurenceb> as far as I'm aware, everyone here has used linear
[12:29] <Laurenceb> apart from my one attempt, where it appeared the switching reg screwed up
[12:29] <Laurenceb> all the uC went crazy
[12:30] <rcaron> batchpcb eh? we had some bad experiences with them last year. took 2 months to arrive, and it didn't pass quality inspection
[12:30] <Laurenceb> there were 2 PICs and two AVR
[12:30] <Laurenceb> rcaron: I've had problems too
[12:30] <edmoore> the 4 layer stuff is all quality inspected, I thought?
[12:30] <Laurenceb> one order was lost, and they wouldnt resend it
[12:30] <rcaron> we use 33each nowadays
[12:31] <Laurenceb> can you link me?
[12:31] <edmoore> 4pcb.com
[12:31] <edmoore> min quantity 4 though
[12:31] <rcaron> https://www.33each.com/!33each1.asp
[12:31] <Laurenceb> right
[12:32] <Laurenceb> not bad
[12:32] <edmoore> rcaron: to confirm - you've got to buy 4 of them at 33 each?
[12:32] <Laurenceb> oh
[12:33] <Laurenceb> doh I was reading it the other way
[12:33] <rcaron> hmmm, looks that way. not quite as good a deal as they used to be
[12:33] <rcaron> they used to do qty 1 orders
[12:33] <Laurenceb> how big a board do you get for that then?
[12:35] <Laurenceb> ah 60 inch square
[12:35] <Laurenceb> huge
[12:35] <Laurenceb> hmm thats a lot of money and a lot of board :/
[12:35] <Laurenceb> my board is 35x45mm and I want 2
[12:37] <Laurenceb> oh well I'll stick with batchpcb, they dont seem to understand UK adresses, but it worked with my uni address before
[12:38] <Laurenceb> they dont read emails either
[12:39] <rcaron> heh
[12:39] <Laurenceb> you can email sparkfun, but they'll tell you to contact batchpcb directly
[12:40] <Laurenceb> maybe if I put my address in the zip file, and fill out my address as "read the zip you muppets" on the site
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[12:43] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[12:58] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[12:58] <edmoore> just read your email
[12:59] <edmoore> yes
[12:59] <edmoore> :)
[13:00] <jcoxon> yes to what
[13:00] <jcoxon> haha
[13:00] <jcoxon> there were options
[13:01] <edmoore> exactly :p
[13:02] <edmoore> well I'd be half inclined to say we should all work on them and then have a weigh-up once they're done - it'd be fun, it'd be quote-unquote good engineering practice, and we'd all have something cool when we're done with it anyway
[13:02] <jcoxon> true
[13:03] <jcoxon> i wasn't suggesting we stopped
[13:03] <jcoxon> but
[13:03] <jcoxon> well i'm not sure
[13:03] <edmoore> steve's sounds sort of done more or less now
[13:04] <edmoore> but he's going to miniaturise it all onto pcb
[13:04] <edmoore> with smd
[13:04] <jcoxon> hehe so basically all the options have work to be done
[13:11] <jcoxon> right i should really get off IRC and go home - am at the hospital , ssh in to pegasus4 to get irc
[13:11] <jcoxon> cya
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[13:43] <Laurenceb> hmmm chocolate with chilli is good
[13:43] <edmoore> eeek
[13:43] <Laurenceb> hehe
[13:43] <edmoore> actually lots of spanish throw some dark chocolate into stews
[13:43] <edmoore> it really works well, so I'm told
[13:50] <hyperb> Mole sauce has chocolate in it, it's delicious
[13:50] <hyperb> on enchiladas
[13:52] <edmoore> where should I go to get one?
[13:59] <hyperb> mexico
[14:05] <Laurenceb> hmm is it ok to use a resistor on a 5v to 3.3v logic line?
[14:06] <Laurenceb> as in rely on the diodes inside the 3.3v avr on the radio board...
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[15:45] <Laurenceb> what layer do you have to select to see DRC errors in eagle?
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[17:14] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/15352
[17:14] <Laurenceb> ^ new radio board
[17:16] <Laurenceb> its smaller, and has a regulator on the board, I also fixed the header that was the wrong way round on the last version
[17:26] <Daviey> Laurenceb: Is there a board you could recommend that has at least 1 serial, Linux based and onboard GPRS.. i know i asked before, but wondered if you have any specific ideas
[17:27] <Daviey> enclosure or just board both good. :)
[17:27] <Laurenceb> I've used the NGW100
[17:28] <Laurenceb> but that doesnt have onboard GPRS
[17:28] <Laurenceb> to be honest I usually use AVRs, not linux boards
[17:33] Action: edmoore has just got an ipod touch
[17:33] <edmoore> woweee
[17:33] <Daviey> Laurenceb: thanks
[17:33] <edmoore> you could write the best balloon tracking app for this thing
[17:36] <Laurenceb> haha
[17:36] <Laurenceb> your such a mac fan
[17:37] <Laurenceb> maybe I should buy a macbook... windows and linux are both annoying
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[17:42] <Hiena> Good evening!
[17:45] <edmoore> Laurenceb: yes!
[17:46] <edmoore> it's unix but with nice bits
[17:46] <edmoore> and you can use things like cocoa modem
[17:46] <edmoore> and the distributed packet thing james is building
[17:51] <hyperb> i hate touchpads though.. i am sticking with Thinkpad notebooks until other notebooks start using the nipple mouse
[17:52] <Laurenceb> argggg thats exactly why I have Thinkpads
[17:52] <Laurenceb> have=hate*
[17:52] <hyperb> you dont like the nipple mouse???
[17:52] <hyperb> clit mouse
[17:52] <Laurenceb> lmao
[17:52] <Laurenceb> they are nasty
[17:53] <edmoore> clit mice are on the way out
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[17:54] <edmoore> everything had them in 1995
[17:54] <edmoore> jcoxon: guess what
[17:54] Action: edmoore is excited as he has a new toy
[17:54] <jcoxon> whats the new toy?...
[17:54] <edmoore> 32gb ipod touch
[17:54] <jcoxon> wow
[17:55] <Hiena> Is it flyable?
[17:55] <edmoore> it's amazing - could throw away my laptop
[17:55] <edmoore> well Hiena, was thinking of downloading the sdk and making a ground control thing for it
[17:55] <jcoxon> :-)_
[17:55] <Hiena> Ehem.
[17:55] <Laurenceb> edmoore: why?
[17:55] <Laurenceb> isnt it just a crippled iphone?
[17:56] <edmoore> jcoxon: you could port your thing to mbp!
[17:56] <edmoore> *explodes*
[17:56] <edmoore> well, it's identical to the iphone
[17:56] <edmoore> except for the phone bit
[17:56] <Laurenceb> ok...
[17:56] <edmoore> there's no software crippling as far as i can tell
[17:56] <Laurenceb> so it runs osx?
[17:56] <edmoore> yep
[17:57] <edmoore> oh lord, colloquy have an ipod touch version
[17:57] <edmoore> i'm so trying that
[17:58] <jcoxon> edmoore, indeed i could port it
[17:58] <jcoxon> but
[17:58] <jcoxon> i'm still working on cocoamodem
[17:58] <jcoxon> being to work it out
[17:58] <jcoxon> its v. complex
[17:59] <edmoore> i doubt it could run cocoa modem :)
[17:59] <jcoxon> no but it could run a client that could connect to my system
[17:59] <jcoxon> once i stick socekts on it
[18:00] <jcoxon> so we could just look at your ipod in brunch
[18:00] <edmoore> yes exactly
[18:00] <edmoore> through the mobile optimised webpage?
[18:00] <jcoxon> how about a native client
[18:01] <edmoore> oh wow
[18:01] <edmoore> well this thing has google maps build in natively
[18:01] <jcoxon> it wouldn't be difficult
[18:01] <jcoxon> i'd need to check out the SDK
[18:01] <edmoore> if you could stick something ontop of that it'd be amazing
[18:02] <edmoore> it's about 3GB
[18:02] <jcoxon> apparently rubycocoa works on the iphone
[18:02] <jcoxon> so it would be pretty easy
[18:02] <jcoxon> but
[18:02] <jcoxon> need to sort out baudot -> ascii first!
[18:03] <jcoxon> managed to find the point where it produces decimal codes which are then translated into characters
[18:03] <jcoxon> am now working backwards
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[18:15] <Hiena> Well, that was funny. The sponsor of the electric hang-glider, named Bob, called me about the motor price. I asked him, about the hang-gliding classes at the weekend, and he said on sunday they will do winch starts. I was suprised, because the only guy who has licence for the winch will be wed at saturday. Bob said it is true, but that guy "has priorities".
[18:18] <jcoxon> haha
[18:19] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/15355
[18:19] <Laurenceb> all ready for ordering :P
[18:20] <Hiena> Telemetry board?
[18:21] <Laurenceb> yes
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[18:33] <natrium42> Laurenceb, where from?
[18:33] <natrium42> looks pretty hardcore, btw :)
[18:35] <Laurenceb> I'll send it to batchpcb along with the flight computer
[18:36] <Laurenceb> its just version 2 of the radio board
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[19:16] <edmoore> looks great Laurenceb: what's changed for v2?
[19:17] <Laurenceb> voltage regulator, zener diode on the data in, smaller board, fixed header (rotated), and only one pot
[19:18] <Laurenceb> you didnt need two
[19:18] <edmoore> nice
[19:18] <edmoore> firmware updates?
[19:19] <Laurenceb> well it will run the old firmware
[19:19] <Laurenceb> but I need to find out what was wrong when it went into power saving
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[19:25] <Laurenceb> I've added i2c to the board now as well
[19:25] <Laurenceb> it can also be used as pin change interrupt
[19:25] <Laurenceb> from the gps
[19:26] <Laurenceb> so you could use the 1PPS for timing
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[23:17] <edmoore> I hate seeing radio people on tv
[23:17] <edmoore> they're not allowed to deviate from my mental image of them
[23:18] <MetaMorfoziS> :)
[23:19] <edmoore> mark lawson looks like a potato. I don't like it
[23:19] <akawaka> launching this sunday
[23:20] <edmoore> oh cool
[23:20] <edmoore> what;s the payload?
[23:20] <natrium42> YOU
[23:20] <edmoore> in soviet russia...
[23:20] <edmoore> or something
[23:20] <natrium42> :D
[23:21] <akawaka> packet radio transceiver, gps, aprs transmitter, computer, digital still camera
[23:21] <akawaka> maybe a webcam
[23:22] <akawaka> if i can get the bloody thing working
[23:23] <akawaka> off the shelf computer hardware was a mistake, next time we'll build something custom
[23:23] <akawaka> fitpc audio hardware is shit and couldn't be used for the packet radio, so had to use an external usb audio device instead
[23:23] <edmoore> get into the TLAs
[23:24] <edmoore> AVR, ARM, PIC
[23:24] <edmoore> you can do all the flight computation for a tiny fraction of the power, in a nice clean and deterministic way
[23:28] <edmoore> I think, anyway :p
[23:39] <akawaka> definitely
[23:40] <akawaka> didn't want to deal with doing packet radio on a pic right now
[23:40] <akawaka> next time probably a linux avr device
[23:40] <edmoore> Laurenceb: has been playing with them
[23:41] <edmoore> I think his linux board was avr32 based, anyway
[23:46] yansa (n=yans@host-89-167-37-237.pronet.lublin.pl) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[00:00] --- Sat Mar 29 2008