highaltitude.log.20080323

[00:00] <Laurenceb> hmm the ubuntu update manager seems to have hung :s
[00:01] <fuzzylugnut> RocketBoy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330220167858
[00:01] <fuzzylugnut> just bought that for my ATAS-120A.
[00:01] <Laurenceb> oh its worked :P very nice
[00:02] <Laurenceb> hmm I'm going home tomorrow... but I can face clearing up my room :(
[00:03] <fuzzylugnut> where's home?
[00:03] <Laurenceb> designing pcbs in eagle is more fun
[00:03] <Laurenceb> Derbyshire
[00:03] <Laurenceb> I'm still at uni atm, been staying behind to finish off the aerosol project
[00:04] <fuzzylugnut> I should learn how to use eagle.
[00:04] <Laurenceb> its not too hard, but making new parts is a pain
[00:04] <Laurenceb> I've only had to do that once
[00:04] <fuzzylugnut> I use exprespcb. its really lightweight and simple, but its just for simple stuff.
[00:04] <Laurenceb> I've used that a lot before
[00:05] <Laurenceb> we had it at my school
[00:05] <Laurenceb> but the serious guys use eagle
[00:05] <fuzzylugnut> yeah
[00:05] <Laurenceb> my problem is I havent worked out how to properly copy and modify existing parts
[00:06] <Laurenceb> which would make creating a new part very easy
[00:07] <Laurenceb> I dont understand why a .lbr file includes multiple parts, its so weird
[00:07] <Laurenceb> youd expect a directory called say "atmel" and inside a .lbr for each ic
[00:08] <Laurenceb> instead you have atmel.lbr and you cant load individual parts in the part editor (or at least thats what it seems to me)
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[00:09] <Laurenceb> luckly theres tons of stuff on the cadsoft ftp / google search, so you can find most components
[00:09] <fuzzylugnut> *nod*
[00:10] <Laurenceb> or something with the same pinout and rename it on the silkscreen
[00:11] <Laurenceb> thats what I've done for the mosfets on this board
[00:11] <Laurenceb> actually renamed them on the schematic
[00:12] <Laurenceb> right I'm going to make some food, if I dissapear that means my laptop is still doing the reset thing :(
[00:13] <fuzzylugnut> http://www.trossenrobotics.com/ they have silicon wire.
[00:13] <fuzzylugnut> and silicon wire >> anything : )
[00:17] <Laurenceb> I have ptfe wire
[00:17] <fuzzylugnut> uh, ok
[00:18] <Laurenceb> haha
[00:18] <Laurenceb> thats what they use for space rated components
[00:18] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[00:20] <Laurenceb> usually ptfe wire, then bare die conponents epoxied onto ceramic boards
[00:20] <Laurenceb> and sealed using iridium into gold boxes
[00:21] <Laurenceb> looks pretty cool :P
[00:22] <Laurenceb> the wired thing is they never use microcontrollers, just fpgas and op amps
[00:22] <Laurenceb> weird*
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[00:23] <Laurenceb> and its almost always analogue devices op amps, and xilinx fpgas
[00:26] <Laurenceb> one of the guys here is making a magnetic levitation based seismometer with just 3 op amps
[00:32] <Laurenceb> its designed to launch on a proton, but he broke it driving down to London for a demonstration doh
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[00:40] <Laurenceb> hey phatmonkey
[00:42] <Laurenceb> http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/6930
[00:51] <Laurenceb> aha http://www.dpie.com/gps/antenna.html
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[02:11] <fuzzylugnut> *gets all the repeaters withing 50 miles of Moab, utah*
[02:20] <_johan_> Fuzzy: What kind of antenna do you use?
[02:21] <fuzzylugnut> oops, maybe I should clarify... *gets a list of....*
[02:22] <fuzzylugnut> I use a 70cm and 2m dual band rubber duck for my backpacking rig.
[02:22] <_johan_> Ah. No radio?
[02:22] <_johan_> Gotcha.
[02:22] <fuzzylugnut> I have an ft-817 and an ft-857
[02:22] <_johan_> I recieve a repeater in Las Vegas. Im in LA.
[02:22] <fuzzylugnut> Ah, cool
[02:23] <_johan_> But thats a roof antenna.
[02:23] <fuzzylugnut> right on : )
[02:23] <fuzzylugnut> have any HF antennas up?
[02:24] <_johan_> No, my radio only does VHF and UHF. Its a radio made for cars.
[02:24] <fuzzylugnut> Ok
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[02:24] <_johan_> FT-7800.
[02:25] <_johan_> Just got my license a couple of weeks ago. For the balloon project.
[02:25] <fuzzylugnut> Congrads!
[02:25] <fuzzylugnut> thats a nice little radio
[02:26] <_johan_> It works. Best radio for cheapskates :)
[02:26] <fuzzylugnut> hehe
[02:26] <fuzzylugnut> My dad is a ham, I always used to sit in his ham shack playing with little electronic bits when i was growing up.
[02:26] <_johan_> Nice.
[02:27] <fuzzylugnut> ballooning is what really pushed me to get my license
[02:27] <fuzzylugnut> so just like you
[02:27] <fuzzylugnut> what level license did you get?
[02:27] <_johan_> Yeah. Im not that social, so the only thing my radio does is broadcasting an APRS signal.
[02:28] <fuzzylugnut> hehe
[02:29] <fuzzylugnut> I got an ATAS-120 autotuning mobile HF antenna, and tried it out on the car today. with 30w I was able to get a guy in north carolina to come back to me
[02:29] <fuzzylugnut> HF + ballooning would be really cool.
[02:29] <_johan_> Have to go.
[02:29] <fuzzylugnut> Laters
[02:29] <_johan_> Those two radios you have look cool. But, yeah, have to go...
[02:30] <fuzzylugnut> Alright, have a good one
[02:30] <fuzzylugnut> I'll be around tomorrow for a bit before I leave for a week
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[03:18] <fuzzylugnut> laters!
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[07:55] <Hiena> Good morning!
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[13:55] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[13:55] <jcoxon> indeed i am in a magazine, but i haven't seen it as i'm not going to pay for it online!
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[16:04] <fuzzylugnut> random battery weight..... 4.6Ah @ 13V = 0.75kg
[16:08] <rcaron> must be a NiMH pack at that weight
[16:09] <fuzzylugnut> nope, li-ion
[16:10] <fuzzylugnut> the A123 batteries lithium iron nanophosphate
[16:10] <fuzzylugnut> they are the best battery i have ever come across.
[16:11] <fuzzylugnut> they are rechargeable, of course.
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[16:21] <fuzzylugnut> I power everything in my capsules with them.
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[17:25] <rcaron> pretty heavy for for a lithium. high current?
[17:30] <fuzzylugnut> you can pull 120A off them in spurts. 90A constant
[17:31] <Hiena> What are you doing? Microwave cooking squirrels from the near space altitude?
[17:31] <fuzzylugnut> <_<
[17:31] <fuzzylugnut> >_>
[17:31] <fuzzylugnut> :3
[17:32] <fuzzylugnut> naw, I just have a hardon for the discharge characteristics of these cells. They stay at 3.3V with only half a volt drop under load for almost the whole capacity of the cell.
[17:33] <fuzzylugnut> ad that half a volt is measured over 4 cells in series, so its a little more than 0.1v drop per cell
[17:37] <Hiena> Nice.
[17:37] <Hiena> How much is it?
[17:37] <Hiena> We need some good cell for the electric powered hang-glider.
[17:39] <jcoxon> urgh i seem to have broken the log search
[17:39] <jcoxon> oops
[17:44] <fuzzylugnut> Hiena: if you go on ebay you can get the Dewalt 36V battery packs for ~120$ There are 10 A123 M1's in there
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[17:44] <fuzzylugnut> Best of all you can over-charge, over-discharge, stab, crush, and destroy the M1 without fearing a firey explosion
[17:45] <fuzzylugnut> there is no unsequestered lithium in the A123 chemistry
[17:45] <Hiena> Oh. A123 ones. I had no luck with these company. I tried to make get a bulk buy offer from them, but they even not answered my mails...
[17:46] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah, they don't deal with anything small
[17:46] <fuzzylugnut> how many do you need?
[17:46] <Hiena> They makes a good cells anyhow.
[17:46] <Hiena> Let me calculate. About 60 or more.
[17:47] <fuzzylugnut> ah ok, you might be able to get a bulk qty of dewalt batteries then
[17:47] <Hiena> Totally 2kWh @ 72V the target.
[17:47] <fuzzylugnut> I always hit ebay, with good luck
[17:47] <fuzzylugnut> wow
[17:47] <fuzzylugnut> haha, that's cool.
[17:47] <fuzzylugnut> how are you going to balance all those cells?
[17:48] <Hiena> Don't know, yet. I'm thinking on some invidual charge/discharge control.
[17:49] <fuzzylugnut> Ok
[17:49] <Hiena> Everything depends on the sponsor.
[17:49] <fuzzylugnut> they use these things for crazy motorbikes, so you might be able to find some literature on the charging scheme they use.
[17:49] <fuzzylugnut> ahhh, ok
[17:50] <fuzzylugnut> see if Dewalt will do it
[17:50] <fuzzylugnut> : )
[17:51] <fuzzylugnut> have you asked A123 about a sponsorship? I hear they are making some 10Ah prismatics
[17:53] <Hiena> That was the first thing.
[17:53] <fuzzylugnut> ahh ok
[17:53] <fuzzylugnut> :/
[17:54] <Hiena> Maybe, i'll try the Dewalt.
[17:54] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[17:54] <fuzzylugnut> I've found promising lots of advertisement of their product really helps.
[17:55] <fuzzylugnut> I got a buy1 get 1 free deal on the radiometrix UHX-1 that way : 3
[17:55] <Hiena> Ehem.
[17:55] <fuzzylugnut> hrmm?
[17:56] <fuzzylugnut> am I telling a grandmother to suck eggs? (..never really understood that term)
[18:02] <Hiena> Nope. Just funny, how many ways possible to obtain "free" parts.
[18:10] <fuzzylugnut> ahh ok
[18:10] <fuzzylugnut> : )
[18:12] <fuzzylugnut> besides stealing of course.
[18:13] <fuzzylugnut> a buddy of mine just came over to pick up the cutdown making materials, and he told me he picked up 20 A123's from ebay for about 12$ a piece
[18:14] <edmoore> and I'm awake
[18:14] <edmoore> hi rcaron
[18:14] <fuzzylugnut> :o
[18:14] <fuzzylugnut> hey ed.
[18:14] <edmoore> kind of dozed off/passed out after easter lunch
[18:14] <fuzzylugnut> lol
[18:14] <fuzzylugnut> must have been good : )
[18:14] <edmoore> lots to drink!
[18:15] <edmoore> it's only ever at meals that I seem to lie the fact that my family are from Burgundy
[18:15] <edmoore> like*
[18:16] <edmoore> for those that don;t know, on the way back from London, in Victoria station, at silly o'clock thismorning to get home, I was waiting in the WHSmith which seems to be the only WHSmith I've found that stocks Elektor. And jcoxon had half a page!
[18:16] <edmoore> it was mainly about embedded linux and the gumstix, and jcoxon was the example of 'cool shit to do with embedded linux', so to speak
[18:17] <fuzzylugnut> cool beans : )
[18:19] <edmoore> should drive some more traffic our way
[18:19] <rcaron> hey edmoore. just found this place a few hours ago
[18:20] <fuzzylugnut> edmoore: best of luck to you
[18:20] <edmoore> hi rcaron - so you've got a high altitude bug?
[18:21] <rcaron> something like that. i'm usually into rocketry, but last week I did radio for a balloon we launched at college
[18:21] <rcaron> you guys familiar with beeline transmitters?
[18:21] <edmoore> awesome
[18:21] <edmoore> no?
[18:21] <fuzzylugnut> I've heard of them, one of the other groups in idaho uses them.
[18:22] <rcaron> they make a couple different things. one's a dumb beacon that spits out morse. using a directional antenna you can find a landed rocket/balloon
[18:22] <rcaron> they also have a nice integrated GPS/400MHz transmitter too, which we were using. transmits as packet radio
[18:22] <edmoore> Am just on their site. Nice looking stuff
[18:23] <rcaron> kinda wished it was 144mhz. longer range, and wouldn't have gotten attentuated as much by the snow flurries we had on launch day
[18:23] <rcaron> really ratty signal
[18:23] <edmoore> Well you'll probably here a lot of complaining about radios from us
[18:24] <edmoore> we're limited to license-exempt modules, which is to say 10mW 434Mhz
[18:24] <rcaron> most of us are licensed amateur radio operators. I don't know UK policies (Worcester, Massachusetts, USA) here
[18:25] <edmoore> They're rubbish - you're limited to 10mW license or not
[18:25] <fuzzylugnut> bbiab... picking up gyros.
[18:25] <rcaron> that's unfortunate. is that a balloon restriction or a frequency restriction?
[18:26] <rcaron> there's a whole ton of stuff on 434...
[18:26] <edmoore> unmanned air-borne radios
[18:26] <edmoore> it's usually pretty empty for us
[18:26] <edmoore> we've not had a qrm problem
[18:26] <edmoore> ...if that's the terminology
[18:26] <rcaron> that's good. its a unlicensed freq that a whole bunch of commercial remote controls and such use
[18:27] <edmoore> and infact we've got 300km off one of them in real life with no problems. But 50baud is pretty boring
[18:28] <rcaron> that's fantastic range, but the freq is inherently capable of much more than 50baud. what's the transmission mode/data you're sending?
[18:28] <edmoore> rtty
[18:28] <edmoore> and it's just telemetry
[18:29] <rcaron> ah. what's your ground antenna?
[18:30] <edmoore> yagi
[18:31] <rcaron> # of elements? we have some 5 elements we use in the field, and a 20 element on the campus that's designed for satellite
[18:31] <edmoore> we pulse-shape the i/p aswell to make the most of what we have
[18:31] <edmoore> gosh, can't remember
[18:32] <edmoore> 7
[18:33] <rcaron> not bad. we lost our payload, but a guy found it (horay audio beacons that can run for days!)
[18:34] <rcaron> stuck in a tree, which he chopped down for us (had to to figure out what the freaking thing was & see the call sheet)
[18:34] <rcaron> pretty hilarious
[18:35] <edmoore> we had a farmer phone us up about 10 days after we lost one
[18:36] <edmoore> infact that seems to happen a fair bit!
[18:36] <rcaron> yeah, we weren't able to decode packets during the later part of the flight, so we only had a vague idea where it ended up
[18:41] <fuzzylugnut> *is back*
[18:45] <fuzzylugnut> rcaron: chopped down the tree to get to the balloon!?
[18:48] <rcaron> yeah, it wasn't a big tree, and from his perspective it was "wth is this beeping thing stuck in my tree? is it government?"
[18:49] <fuzzylugnut> LOL
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[18:49] <rcaron> probably should have a longer line between the payload and the balloon
[18:49] <fuzzylugnut> how long was it?
[18:50] <edmoore> I like big lines
[18:50] <rcaron> i forget offhand. i was in the radio room back on campus tracking it
[18:50] <edmoore> reduces the nagular dispacement and increases the period of the swinging
[18:50] <edmoore> win-win
[18:50] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah
[18:51] <rcaron> i'll have to ask the field guys about it. not like its a huge weight penalty or anything. thin kevlar is awesome stuff
[18:51] <fuzzylugnut> haha
[18:51] <fuzzylugnut> and good for slicing in 2 any birds that fly thorugh your line : )
[18:51] <rcaron> i mean, you can't do a nichrome burn through with it, but our lift vs payload was so high we could guarantee a balloon burst
[18:51] <fuzzylugnut> *through
[18:52] <fuzzylugnut> anyone accidentally hit neutral buoyancy here?
[18:53] <edmoore> I'm not sure you can with latex balloons
[18:53] <edmoore> unless the gas diffuses to the point that you reach neutral
[18:53] <fuzzylugnut> there's the thermal facet of it too
[18:54] <edmoore> true
[18:54] <edmoore> I guess you'd have to be really flirting with low lift at launch for that to happen
[18:54] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah
[18:54] <edmoore> our altitude attempt will have a very very low lift balloon
[18:55] <fuzzylugnut> yeah?
[18:55] <edmoore> we're using a highly filled 500g balloon to yank it up above the jet stream then burst
[18:55] <edmoore> otherwise it'd be a ~5h ascent
[18:55] <fuzzylugnut> Oh, I thought you were going for a max altitude record thingy.
[18:55] <edmoore> and it'll carry on the rest of the journey under the 1.5kg balloon
[18:55] <edmoore> yes we are
[18:55] <edmoore> 2 balloons
[18:56] <edmoore> one to get it up quickly to reduce lift
[18:56] <fuzzylugnut> ohhh....
[18:56] <edmoore> then the main to take it all the way to the top
[18:56] <fuzzylugnut> cool
[18:56] <rcaron> neat. how high you get so far?
[18:57] <edmoore> only really the same as everyone else
[18:57] <edmoore> >100,000ft but not significantly
[18:57] <edmoore> this'll be the first one we actively try to get high with
[18:57] <fuzzylugnut> my group has only been up to lower 90's tops.
[18:57] <fuzzylugnut> but they launch 11lb payloads : P
[18:57] <edmoore> well the >100,000ft ones were with smaller payloads
[18:58] <rcaron> our payload was so low we didn't have to notify the FAA
[18:58] <edmoore> the big stuff with pyro-deployed chutes anf all that jazz has never made it above 25km
[18:58] <fuzzylugnut> haha
[18:58] <rcaron> it was our first launch though. heavier on the way
[18:58] <fuzzylugnut> *nod*
[18:59] <fuzzylugnut> what is the threshold for notifying the FAA?
[18:59] <rcaron> high altitude pyros are kinda dicey
[18:59] <fuzzylugnut> eh, depends how they are designed
[18:59] <rcaron> either 4 or 6lbs, i forget
[18:59] <rcaron> yeah, well, much more thought is needed for them than their low-altitude counterparts
[19:00] <edmoore> indeed
[19:00] <edmoore> yeah we have to be fairly careful with stuff
[19:00] <rcaron> again, from my rocketry stuff.
[19:01] <fuzzylugnut> I guess I'm not getting what you mean
[19:01] <edmoore> yeah it's all rocketry tech that we use
[19:02] <edmoore> just have to make sure it deploys!
[19:02] <fuzzylugnut> ahh ok
[19:04] <rcaron> well, we usually use black powder charges on the rockets. at high altitudes most of the BP doesn't burn
[19:04] <rcaron> have to make enclosures to keep more of the BP in contact with the igniter for longer
[19:04] <rcaron> or try to maintain pressure so there's enough oxygen
[19:04] <rcaron> things like that
[19:04] <edmoore> yep, it's all enclosed
[19:05] <edmoore> and redundant
[19:05] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, redundancy is uber-important : 3
[19:06] <rcaron> actually, the school got all freaked out by our initial design proposal to separate rocket boosters w/ pyros, so we ended up making a capacitor/electromagnet design for separation
[19:06] <rcaron> i bet it'd be awesome for cut-down applications
[19:07] <edmoore> one of the guys here was playing with electromagnets
[19:07] <edmoore> for cut-downs
[19:07] <rcaron> oh yeah? we should definately chat then
[19:07] <edmoore> and lots of people use the hot-wire method, though that gives me the heeby-jeebys
[19:08] <rcaron> eh, pretty familiar with nichrome too. it does the job fine. i just don't like the power requirement too much
[19:09] <rcaron> definately something i'm more comfortable attaching to a ground-based lead acid than a flight li-poly
[19:09] <edmoore> I've seen some people loose systems because swinging on the way up fatigues and breaks the wires. I guess it's all about careful integration
[19:09] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, going back to design
[19:09] <edmoore> yeah, li-polys need some respect!
[19:09] <rcaron> ouch indeed
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[19:12] <rcaron> only problem with the cap/electromagnet arrangement is the capacitor is high-voltage (100v) and we just charged them immeadiately prior to launch. balloon would have to have a DC step-up onboard
[19:14] <natrium42> hi
[19:15] <fuzzylugnut> Hey, sodium 24 ; P
[19:15] <natrium42> hehe :P
[19:16] <natrium42> at least it's googleable
[19:16] <fuzzylugnut> hmm?
[19:16] <Hiena> Ehem...
[19:16] <Hiena> Sleepmode on.
[19:16] <fuzzylugnut> Goodnight!
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[19:17] <natrium42> already?
[19:17] <fuzzylugnut> booty call perhaps?
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[19:19] <rcaron> so are you guys all UK based?
[19:19] <edmoore> I am
[19:19] <fuzzylugnut> I'm in idaho, usa
[19:19] <edmoore> there's a decent mix, infact
[19:19] <fuzzylugnut> (social asshole of US)
[19:19] <rcaron> heh fuzzy. idaho sure beats mass for this kind of stuff
[19:20] <fuzzylugnut> LOL
[19:20] <fuzzylugnut> yeah it does
[19:20] <fuzzylugnut> we land in....sage brush
[19:20] <rcaron> we have to drive west into NY so we don't ditch in the atlantic
[19:20] <fuzzylugnut> haha
[19:21] <fuzzylugnut> do you do flight predictions?
[19:22] <rcaron> yeah, wasn't my task though so i don't know much about it
[19:22] <fuzzylugnut> ok
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[19:22] <fuzzylugnut> welcome to the hobby, then : )
[19:23] <edmoore> yeah I don't see how the MIT guys launch from their campus
[19:23] <rcaron> they ditch
[19:23] <fuzzylugnut> ditch?
[19:23] <rcaron> they build cheap HF transmitters
[19:23] <rcaron> i.e. land in oceean, unrecoverable
[19:23] <fuzzylugnut> oooh
[19:23] <rcaron> *ocean
[19:23] <fuzzylugnut> lame : (
[19:23] <edmoore> that must be so frustrating if you want to get photos and stuff
[19:24] <edmoore> I was talking to the guy (Ben?) who builds their transmitters
[19:24] <edmoore> poor guy :)
[19:24] <rcaron> heh, they're supposedly only $25 a pop
[19:24] <rcaron> and that's all they fly
[19:24] <rcaron> well, GPS too
[19:24] <fuzzylugnut> what about sensors?
[19:25] <rcaron> nope. i think all the point is at this point is to field-test those transmitters
[19:25] <rcaron> i hope eventually they'll drive west and do something w/ a real payload
[19:25] <fuzzylugnut> are you part of that program?
[19:26] <rcaron> no, i'm at the state's other engineering school
[19:26] <fuzzylugnut> ah ok
[19:26] <rcaron> just been following their stuff
[19:26] <fuzzylugnut> right
[19:26] <fuzzylugnut> do you have a ham license?
[19:27] <rcaron> yes, general class. we have a fair number of licensed guys involved
[19:27] <fuzzylugnut> Cool beans
[19:27] <rcaron> technician class is very easy to get if you don't have it
[19:27] <fuzzylugnut> I'm general too
[19:28] <rcaron> kb1lki here
[19:28] <fuzzylugnut> k3zgo
[19:28] <fuzzylugnut> get on HF much/
[19:28] <fuzzylugnut> ?
[19:28] <edmoore> I really need to get myself sorted on a license
[19:28] <fuzzylugnut> I thought you were?
[19:28] <natrium42> edmoore, do it, do it, do it
[19:28] <natrium42> edmoore, do it
[19:28] <edmoore> ]I guess that we're limited to flying only license exempt stuff means I've never really had the motivation, but I really should pull my finger out
[19:29] <rcaron> until lately, no. but i've been playing with our station's rig a bit the past couple weeks. 15m is just begining to get good again
[19:29] <edmoore> no, Rocketboy is the friendly local ham :)
[19:29] <fuzzylugnut> oooooh, whooops
[19:29] <fuzzylugnut> I keep forgetting the nick-name designnations here.
[19:29] <fuzzylugnut> he's steve right?
[19:30] <edmoore> yes
[19:30] <fuzzylugnut> ok.
[19:30] <edmoore> top guy
[19:30] <fuzzylugnut> rcaron: Cool, yeah, 20m has been pretty bad... it should be another year or so before we get out of the lull in the sunspor cycle
[19:31] <fuzzylugnut> *sunspot
[19:31] <rcaron> eh, 20m has been alright, but we have a good station & yagi to work with
[19:31] <fuzzylugnut> oh cool
[19:31] <fuzzylugnut> lucky ; P
[19:31] <rcaron> indeed
[19:32] <fuzzylugnut> my dad has a beam antenna on a 60ft tower, in Pa.
[19:32] <fuzzylugnut> I was able to hit texas on 2.5W with it one day
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[19:32] <rcaron> we got 4 monoband yagis about 120ft up here. although the winds have not been kind. elements are all out of whack
[19:32] <fuzzylugnut> ah, bummer
[19:33] <fuzzylugnut> I bet thats a killer setup when its working though
[19:33] <rcaron> yeah, our 40 is out of commission, but the 15 and 20 are OK
[19:33] <rcaron> 10 too, but that's useless right now
[19:33] <fuzzylugnut> *nod*
[19:33] <fuzzylugnut> http://web.telia.com/~u85920178/tx/250mwtx.htm
[19:34] <fuzzylugnut> may be of interest if you guys ar elooking to do hf.
[19:35] <fuzzylugnut> like the MIT guys, just to see how far you can send one of these
[19:36] <rcaron> sounds like a good idea. we could throw that together in a couple hours
[19:37] <rcaron> http://users.wpi.edu/~wpiwa/ is our club website, although it could use an update
[19:37] <fuzzylugnut> I'd be interested in how that works out if you get it built
[19:38] <edmoore> rcaron: are you at Olin?
[19:38] <edmoore> ignore that, website answere the q
[19:38] <rcaron> i'm half tempted to just get some 24 gauge wire and drop a quarter wave down from the payload
[19:38] <fuzzylugnut> hehe
[19:38] <fuzzylugnut> Sure
[19:39] <rcaron> olin?
[19:40] <edmoore> engineering school is mas
[19:40] <edmoore> it's quite new
[19:40] <rcaron> no, WPI. we have an Olin hall though, for the physics department
[19:40] <edmoore> I met a bunch of guys from there when I was out at MIT
[19:41] <rcaron> ah. think i heard of them once
[19:42] <fuzzylugnut> sweet, you have an irlp node up
[19:44] <rcaron> well, we did. it broke :/
[19:44] <rcaron> working on it
[19:44] <rcaron> we're kinda plagued w/ too many projects
[19:45] <fuzzylugnut> oh man, I know that feeling
[19:46] <natrium42> haha, yeah :/
[19:48] <natrium42> ooh nice pic --> http://pixdaus.com/single.php?id=34073
[19:48] <fuzzylugnut> wow!
[19:48] <fuzzylugnut> thats freekin awesome
[19:49] <natrium42> :)
[19:49] <natrium42> might be possible to do with a HAB if you schedule it carefully...
[19:49] <fuzzylugnut> ground-to-air defense against balloons? ;P
[19:49] <natrium42> lolz
[19:50] <rcaron> pretty sure if you fly a HAB anywhere near the shuttle it will encounter some F-16s
[19:51] <fuzzylugnut> and pilots with no sense of humor : (
[19:51] <rcaron> no doubt
[19:51] <natrium42> is 200 miles too near?
[19:51] <fuzzylugnut> w"We lost out last balloon because.....it was shot down by F-16s"
[19:52] <edmoore> militaries have trouble dowing HABs
[19:52] <rcaron> not sure natrium42. i do know they clear a very big swath for launches
[19:52] <edmoore> lots of stories of them wasting $$$$$$$$ of ammo and hitting nothing but air
[19:52] <fuzzylugnut> lol
[19:52] <fuzzylugnut> pwned!
[20:00] <fuzzylugnut> gah. balls to this dipole. I'm going to try and rig a vertical or something : (
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[20:02] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[20:02] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[20:03] <edmoore> i nearly bought elektor
[20:03] <edmoore> but it's £3.80 or something silly
[20:03] <edmoore> private eye won the battle for my pocket change
[20:05] <jcoxon> exactly
[20:06] <edmoore> they're keen on embedded linux though!
[20:06] <jcoxon> yeah, i was contacted and asked if they could use the photos
[20:10] <jcoxon> i got cocoamodem logging
[20:10] <edmoore> how long does it take to fire up for you?
[20:10] <edmoore> mine bounces in the dock for about a minute then suddenly decides it's going to work
[20:11] <jcoxon> no mine is quick
[20:11] <jcoxon> i got the new version
[20:11] <edmoore> same.....
[20:11] <jcoxon> well its comes up witha splash screen
[20:11] <edmoore> it's not slow, i.e. it's beyond that
[20:11] <edmoore> it litterally hangs doing nothing for an age
[20:11] <jcoxon> let me try
[20:11] <edmoore> then fires up in about half a second
[20:12] <jcoxon> nope its up
[20:13] <jcoxon> weird that its slow for you considering that my laptop is alot slower
[20:13] <rcaron> about 6 seconds on my intel macbook
[20:13] <jcoxon> could is be the ppc -> intel crossover
[20:13] <edmoore> leopard, rcaron ?
[20:13] <rcaron> yeah
[20:13] <edmoore> odd
[20:13] <edmoore> must have something wierd on my MBP
[20:14] <edmoore> bbl
[20:14] <rcaron> i was looking all over for something mac-based that could decode packet
[20:14] <jcoxon> its a nice bit of software
[20:14] <rcaron> no success; haven't actually tried using cocoamodem to decode one of the other protocols
[20:15] <jcoxon> i've used it for CW - it itsn't great
[20:15] <jcoxon> but i think its better with RTTY
[20:16] <rcaron> makes sense
[20:16] <jcoxon> well now that i've got it logging going to get applescript to send it to my rubycocoa which will parse it and present it nicely
[20:17] <rcaron> cool, got a screenshot?
[20:17] <jcoxon> of it logging :-p
[20:18] <jcoxon> ?
[20:18] <jcoxon> or the main software
[20:18] <jcoxon> ?
[20:18] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:groundcontrol
[20:18] <rcaron> i'm not terribly familiar with the *cocoa* software yet, but i thought ruby was a GUI frontend
[20:20] <jcoxon> basically i'm using applescript to log
[20:20] <jcoxon> and rubycocoa for my gui
[20:20] <jcoxon> i haven't yet linked them yet
[20:20] <rcaron> gotcha
[20:21] <jcoxon> its should be quite nice when it works :-D
[20:21] <rcaron> indeed
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[20:30] <rcaron> i'm thinking a HF RTTY GPS transmitter will be really nice compared to thr UHF Packet one we just used
[20:31] <jcoxon> rcaron, what sort of setup have you used?
[20:31] <rcaron> beeline gps transmitter http://bigredbee.com/BeeLineGPS.htm
[20:33] <jcoxon> oh cool
[20:33] <jcoxon> :-) i'm in the UK, we have our own way of doing things :-p
[20:34] Action: edmoore has explained our woes....
[20:34] <rcaron> yeah, that's really unfortunate
[20:35] <jcoxon> its more of a challenge
[20:35] <rcaron> the fact that its restricted even when licensed...
[20:35] <jcoxon> in contrast we have very good GSM coverage
[20:36] <edmoore> yes, I've not expained this - GSM is a real boon
[20:36] <rcaron> i've seen a number of balloons use cell networks
[20:36] <jcoxon> we pretty much always use them
[20:36] <rcaron> i find the idea rather frightening given my current reception wores
[20:36] <edmoore> there's signal basically everywhere
[20:36] <edmoore> and definitely with a 9" high gain antenna
[20:36] <rcaron> so you just SMS your lat/long/telemetry?
[20:37] <edmoore> below 1000m(ish), yeah
[20:37] <edmoore> doesn't work above
[20:37] <rcaron> too bad
[20:37] <edmoore> but then th eradio has no probs up in the air, but range is reduced enormously when it's on the deck
[20:37] <edmoore> so they complement quite well
[20:38] <rcaron> yeah, great for when you've landed
[20:39] <RocketBoy> we use low power licence exempt transmitters in the air
[20:39] <jcoxon> aarrggghhh this is going to be tougher then i thought
[20:39] <jcoxon> damn applescript
[20:39] <edmoore> whotsat?
[20:39] <edmoore> oh right
[20:40] <jcoxon> i could go for the slow way and have it log the data to file then read teh file
[20:40] <jcoxon> but
[20:40] <jcoxon> there should be a nice way of passing it directly
[21:01] <jcoxon> bbl
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[23:07] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
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[23:09] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[23:15] Action: natrium42 just ordered an iridium phone
[23:17] <edmoore> much excitement!
[23:17] <rcaron> oh win
[23:17] <natrium42> edmoore, so you can get us a zp balloon?
[23:18] <jcoxon> natrium42, easy :-p
[23:18] <natrium42> oh, excellent
[23:18] <edmoore> well it seems the man is mark caveizel - the one he sold to the utarc guys he sells for $200
[23:18] <edmoore> which is an absolute steal!
[23:18] <edmoore> far cheaper than we can make 'em
[23:19] <natrium42> right, certainly
[23:20] <edmoore> we're going to buy a few to see how he does them
[23:23] Action: fuzzylugnut finished packing. 11.5Kg for 6 days backcountry + uber ham radio capabilities
[23:24] <RocketBoy> taking your 20m rig fuzzy?
[23:25] <fuzzylugnut> the 817 covers 160 through 70cm, and I have a tiny autotuner built into it soI can hit all the bands except 160 (witha 20m dipole)
[23:25] <fuzzylugnut> http://24.116.155.170/ft_817/ft_817.html
[23:26] <fuzzylugnut> a simple handheld would suffice, but I want to try this thing out on HF in the desert
[23:29] <fuzzylugnut> so in long form, yes : P
[23:29] <RocketBoy> neat job - what do you carry for batteries
[23:29] <fuzzylugnut> A123s
[23:29] <RocketBoy> ypurl need a few
[23:29] <fuzzylugnut> 4.6Ah worth, nominal voltage is 13v.
[23:30] <fuzzylugnut> that will run my radio for 16 hours just listening, and about 6 with normal duty cycle talking/calling
[23:30] <RocketBoy> so thats what you were going to use the 9V lithiums for?
[23:31] <fuzzylugnut> nope
[23:31] <fuzzylugnut> I was going to use those for the microtrack-300
[23:31] <fuzzylugnut> but I don't use that one anymore
[23:31] <fuzzylugnut> did they arrive yet?
[23:31] <RocketBoy> na not yet
[23:31] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[23:32] <fuzzylugnut> it'll be a week tomorrow
[23:32] <RocketBoy> mail is cr*p over this easter - we don't get mail Friday,Sunday and Monday
[23:32] <fuzzylugnut> ohhh... ok
[23:33] <edmoore> we are going to try out some A123s in a payload coming up
[23:33] <rcaron> fuzzylugnut: is the microtrack 300 a vhf or a uhf?
[23:33] <fuzzylugnut> rcaron: vhf
[23:33] <fuzzylugnut> edmoore: YayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyYY!
[23:33] <fuzzylugnut> I hope you find them as spoogetastic as I do.
[23:34] <edmoore> Well I'm not sure....
[23:34] <edmoore> they don't have the same absolute capacity as the foil-sachet lipolys
[23:34] <edmoore> but they can discharge much higher
[23:34] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, but they will stay at 3.3v through almost their whole capacity
[23:34] <edmoore> which is fine for high discharge apps, but the payloads aren't really one of them
[23:34] <edmoore> that's true
[23:35] <edmoore> ]and they have a nice form factor
[23:35] <edmoore> but we'll give 'em a go anyway and report back!
[23:35] <RocketBoy> are they 1500mAh?
[23:35] <fuzzylugnut> 2.3
[23:35] <fuzzylugnut> ah
[23:36] <fuzzylugnut> my stuff pulls 2.5A for about 1s durring transmission, so I need very little voltage drop.
[23:37] <fuzzylugnut> and I blew up a LI-poly once through mechanical failure once... that was all it took.
[23:37] <RocketBoy> what size are they?
[23:37] <fuzzylugnut> which ones?
[23:37] <RocketBoy> the A123a
[23:38] <fuzzylugnut> 2.3Ah, 3.3V nominal
[23:38] <fuzzylugnut> 70g per cell
[23:38] <RocketBoy> A123s
[23:38] <fuzzylugnut> yep
[23:38] <fuzzylugnut> if you're feeling saucy... you can dump 90A off them without fear of blowing them up
[23:38] <edmoore> RocketBoy: http://www.a123systems.com/#/products/p1
[23:39] <rcaron> nice toys. that's perfect for nichrome
[23:39] <fuzzylugnut> Yeah
[23:39] <fuzzylugnut> I wish I could get the 32 series ones : (
[23:39] <RocketBoy> Ah - ta thats what I wanted to knpw
[23:39] <RocketBoy> know
[23:39] <RocketBoy> yeah but not for long ;-)
[23:40] <edmoore> They'd rock for HARVe
[23:40] <fuzzylugnut> hehe
[23:41] <RocketBoy> yeah we need somthing like that for the servos
[23:42] <fuzzylugnut> awesome : )
[23:42] <RocketBoy> well 2.3Ah * 3.3V / 70g = 108mAh/g - which is similar to LiPo
[23:43] <RocketBoy> sorry 108mWh/g
[23:47] <fuzzylugnut> *nod*
[23:48] <RocketBoy> sorry - I have been looking at too much battery data recently - looking for the best power to weight ratio of Atlas
[23:48] <fuzzylugnut> Ok
[23:48] <RocketBoy> of = for
[23:48] <fuzzylugnut> (brb, phone)
[23:49] <edmoore> come across any interesting bits?
[23:50] <RocketBoy> well you will have to go far to beat the Energiser AAs actually - about 2x the power to weight of Li-Pos
[23:51] <edmoore> yeah
[23:51] <edmoore> and they've always been rock solidly reliable
[23:51] <jcoxon> I'm a big believer in energisers
[23:52] <RocketBoy> yep - the only real downside is the battery holder
[23:52] <RocketBoy> it adds weight and reduces reliability
[23:53] <RocketBoy> tagged cells that we can solder to would be better IMO
[23:54] <jcoxon> we could email energisers
[23:54] <jcoxon> and ask for tags :-)
[23:54] <jcoxon> i'm so thick
[23:54] <edmoore> We could tag them ourselves
[23:54] <jcoxon> i've just worked out how to transfer this data
[23:55] <edmoore> But i'm not volunteering
[23:55] <edmoore> you could spot weld through NiCads
[23:55] <edmoore> doubt the same is true for these
[23:55] <RocketBoy> its possible they might do a tagged version - its worth an ask
[23:55] <RocketBoy> although its more likly for re-chargables
[23:55] <fuzzylugnut> the AA's are great if you don't care about recharging
[23:56] <RocketBoy> yeah agreed
[23:57] <RocketBoy> for atlas weight is the main issue - so power to weight is an issue we have to consider
[23:58] <RocketBoy> hey ed - I tried tesco extra for Gu - but no luck - reading up I think Sansburys might stock it
[23:59] <jcoxon> i had some Gu today, but it wasnt icecream
[23:59] <edmoore> Waitrose definitely have it
[23:59] <edmoore> as I got some from there 2 days ago
[23:59] <jcoxon> it was little pots of chocolate/caramel mouse/gu stuff
[23:59] <jcoxon> soooo nice
[00:00] --- Mon Mar 24 2008