highaltitude.log.20080316

[00:13] <Laurenceb> cool nice work :P
[00:14] <natrium42> they always leave :P
[00:14] Action: natrium42 leaves computers on 24/7...
[00:16] flugnut (n=hush@24-116-155-170.cpe.cableone.net) joined #highaltitude.
[00:16] <flugnut> Hey
[00:17] <natrium42> hi
[00:18] <flugnut> .finally found a channel about HABs : )
[00:18] <flugnut> anyone here from Idaho/
[00:18] <natrium42> welcome aboard
[00:18] <flugnut> ?
[00:18] <flugnut> thanks
[00:18] <natrium42> how did you find us?
[00:18] <flugnut> "/list" : )
[00:19] <flugnut> I was on the gumstix channel for help
[00:19] <natrium42> aah, that's a first then :)
[00:19] <flugnut> haha.
[00:19] <natrium42> have you sent anything up or planning something?
[00:19] <Laurenceb> mostly UK people on here
[00:19] <flugnut> ah, ok
[00:19] <Laurenceb> im Oxford UK
[00:19] <flugnut> getting pretty late then, eh?
[00:20] Action: natrium42 is in canada (ontario)
[00:20] <Laurenceb> not by my standards
[00:20] <flugnut> Yeah, I'm part of a group in idaho that sends up high altitude balloons.
[00:20] <flugnut> ah, gotcha
[00:20] <Laurenceb> :P
[00:20] <flugnut> I got to bed at 9:30 :P
[00:20] <natrium42> am?
[00:20] <flugnut> *go to
[00:21] <flugnut> pm
[00:21] <natrium42> pfft :P
[00:21] <Laurenceb> wtf !!
[00:21] <Laurenceb> hehe well if you get up early :P
[00:21] <flugnut> yeah, 7
[00:22] <Laurenceb> hmm anyone any good with makefiles? can I say -DUART_RX_BUFFER_SIZE=${2*packetlenght}
[00:22] <Laurenceb> so thats an equation for.... duh I can do that better in the C code lol
[00:22] <flugnut> not sure.
[00:23] <Laurenceb> ok... so the variables declared in the makefile will be avaliable by all my code?
[00:23] <Laurenceb> as in they are defined before compilation is started?
[00:24] <flugnut> nooo idea
[00:24] <natrium42> Laurenceb, -Dsomething=whatever is the same as doing "#define something whatever" in code
[00:24] <Laurenceb> ok
[00:25] <flugnut> anyone here mess with neutral buoyancy?
[00:25] <Laurenceb> wtf - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_A7Hu0uKNw
[00:26] <Laurenceb> theres some random stuff on youtube
[00:26] <natrium42> flugnut, i haven't yet
[00:26] <flugnut> ok
[00:26] <natrium42> but there are some plans
[00:26] <natrium42> ;)
[00:26] <natrium42> are you using gumstix btw?
[00:26] <flugnut> Cool.
[00:26] <flugnut> we will be next flight
[00:26] <Laurenceb> looks very hard - neutral bouyancy
[00:27] <Laurenceb> I made a valve for helium a while ago
[00:28] <flugnut> yeah, we're going to use the gumstix to control venting
[00:28] <flugnut> and we use hydrogen now
[00:28] <Laurenceb> neat :P
[00:28] <flugnut> and pyrotechnic cutdown devices : 3
[00:29] <flugnut> how expensive is helium in the Uk?
[00:30] <natrium42> flugnut, do you have a site?
[00:30] <flugnut> kinda sorta
[00:30] <flugnut> just image galleries that I run from my apartment
[00:31] <flugnut> http://24.116.155.170/track/tracker.html
[00:31] <natrium42> aah, nice, we like pictures :)
[00:31] <flugnut> I finished that last night, put the other microtrak-8000FA in it
[00:31] <flugnut> http://24.116.155.170/balloon/launch.html
[00:31] <flugnut> thats pics from our last launch
[00:32] <natrium42> ooh, pictures look great
[00:32] <natrium42> looks like it got pretty high
[00:32] <flugnut> thanks
[00:32] <flugnut> yeah... the top packet was from 70 or 80 something.
[00:33] <flugnut> *digs up the flightlog*
[00:33] <natrium42> what kind of radio link did you use?
[00:34] <flugnut> previously, 2 handietalkie 2m radios and the tinytrak 3 chips
[00:34] <Laurenceb> nice stuff
[00:34] <Laurenceb> I'm working on my own radio as we speak
[00:35] <flugnut> I've moved us to the microtrak-8000FA's for the next launch. Turns 5lbs tracking package into a 1lb one
[00:35] <flugnut> cool
[00:35] <flugnut> what sort of radio?
[00:35] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:dscn0979.jpg?cache=cache
[00:35] <Laurenceb> uses an AVR uC
[00:36] <akawaka> goddamn it
[00:36] <akawaka> can't find a 4-connector headphone plug anywhere
[00:36] <Laurenceb> unfortunately its being glitchy... cant work it out, it seems to be a bug in the AVR or GCC
[00:37] <natrium42> akawaka, digikey doesn't have it?
[00:37] <akawaka> natrium42: i'm sure they do
[00:37] <akawaka> i just mean locally
[00:37] <flugnut> hahahahahaahhahaha
[00:37] <flugnut> radiometrix is awesome
[00:37] <Laurenceb> wats funny?
[00:37] <flugnut> all of our radios are from them.
[00:37] <Laurenceb> cool
[00:37] <akawaka> frys and radioshack are just awful
[00:38] <Laurenceb> if it works, then the range is several hundered km :P
[00:38] <akawaka> only thing i could find with the right connector on it was a $50 monster cable
[00:38] <flugnut> what power output?
[00:38] <Laurenceb> 10mw
[00:38] <flugnut> um
[00:38] <Laurenceb> 300 baud
[00:38] <flugnut> that won't get you hunders of km
[00:38] <akawaka> flugnut: do you use any other radio beside the microtrak stuff?
[00:39] <Laurenceb> with ssb and a yagi
[00:39] <Laurenceb> no problem
[00:39] <Laurenceb> we've done it before
[00:40] <flugnut> akawaka: just handie-talkie 2m radios, and some Linxtechnologies transmitters
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[00:40] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/communication:mihab2_radio_system
[00:41] <akawaka> flugnut: planning on using 2m packet for our first balloon this month
[00:43] <flugnut> Laurenceb: I'm really really surprised. What mode of transmission does your transmitter use?
[00:43] <flugnut> akawaka: That's cool. Do you have a ham license?
[00:44] <Laurenceb> we transmit fm, then recieve with ssb
[00:44] <Laurenceb> into a sound card for decoding
[00:44] <akawaka> flugnut: yeah, just got it this week
[00:44] <flugnut> ah, ok
[00:44] <Laurenceb> so we effectively downconvert from rf to audio frequency
[00:45] <Laurenceb> then everything is handled by software (I use fldigi running on ubuntu)
[00:45] <flugnut> I see
[00:46] <Laurenceb> theoretic range is around the 10kM range if I used a preamp and a better coding scheme
[00:46] <flugnut> *nod*
[00:46] <Laurenceb> 10000Km
[00:47] <Laurenceb> I'm trying to get some GaAs preamps
[00:49] <flugnut> I was able to pick up 4.8kbs from ~70kft using one of these preams on the linx receiver http://www.linxtechnologies.com/Products/RF-Modules/Broadband-RF-Amplifiers/
[00:50] <flugnut> it was just a test run... the gps run straight into the transmitter.
[00:50] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/communication:basics
[00:51] <Laurenceb> for the tx?
[00:51] <flugnut> I had the power amp on the transmitter and the preamp on the receiver.
[00:52] <flugnut> for 50mw out on the tx
[00:52] <flugnut> but its afsk
[00:52] <flugnut> er
[00:52] <flugnut> blah. just ask
[00:53] <Laurenceb> cool, could you tx 10Mhz with that?
[00:53] <flugnut> I'm not sure
[00:53] <flugnut> "10MHz to 3GHz broadband operation"
[00:54] <flugnut> I'm using the UHX-1 for a serial link between the gumstix on the balloon and us on the groun
[00:54] <flugnut> d
[00:57] <Laurenceb> these are very interesting
[00:57] <flugnut> the linx things?
[00:57] <Laurenceb> a whole system on a single ic :P
[00:57] <flugnut> ah, yeah
[00:58] <Laurenceb> but I'm not sure how compatible they would be with our existing setup
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[00:58] <flugnut> it sounds like you already have a good setup
[00:58] <Laurenceb> I wouldnt trust them "off the shelf" for long distance use
[00:59] <Laurenceb> yes, 10mw requires careful consideration of the modulation scheme
[01:00] <flugnut> the tinytrak 4 chips are supposed to support psk-31
[01:01] <flugnut> so that'll be fun.
[01:01] <Laurenceb> RTTY works well using our FM ---> SSB scheme
[01:02] <Laurenceb> as we're directly mapping frequency from rf down to audio
[01:02] <Laurenceb> as FM --> AFSK
[01:02] <Laurenceb> as=so*
[01:02] <flugnut> yeah.
[01:02] <Laurenceb> I want to add a pseudorandom scheme to it
[01:02] <flugnut> why?
[01:03] <Laurenceb> start/stop bit schemes are flawed
[01:03] <flugnut> ah, yeah
[01:03] <Laurenceb> as stop/start transition is corrupted and your screwed
[01:03] <flugnut> code in OLIVIA : 3
[01:03] <flugnut> to you pic
[01:03] <flugnut> *your
[01:03] <Laurenceb> I'm building the same scheme on avr
[01:04] <Laurenceb> we have it working on pic, but I want avr :D
[01:04] <flugnut> yeah
[01:04] <flugnut> I like the avrs as well.
[01:04] <flugnut> the robostix uses the atmega128
[01:04] <Laurenceb> I'll look into olivia, but pseudorandom modulation is theoretically nice
[01:05] <Laurenceb> if your good with AVR, can you look at my code?
[01:05] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/m2cc89089
[01:05] <Laurenceb> its driving me spare :(
[01:06] <flugnut> I'm just saying because I've decoded olivia (with gmfsk) perfectly without being able to discern the signal from background with my ear
[01:06] <Laurenceb> after its gone to sleep, the first sent byte is corrupted
[01:06] <Laurenceb> nice
[01:06] Action: Laurenceb google olivia
[01:10] <Laurenceb> no it wouldnt run over FM modules
[01:11] <flugnut> its just another form of audio fsk
[01:12] <flugnut> it can fit in 500hx bandwidth
[01:12] <flugnut> *hz
[01:12] <Laurenceb> yes, but we cant send multiple tones at a time
[01:12] <Laurenceb> or phase shift
[01:13] <flugnut> sounds like a limitation of the pic, not the transmitter
[01:13] <Laurenceb> nope
[01:13] <Laurenceb> if you transmit from a rf module, you can only make a single frequency/phase at a time
[01:15] <flugnut> depends on the module, linx sells some that accept af modulation
[01:15] <Laurenceb> maybe... it gets complicated
[01:15] <flugnut> http://www.linxtechnologies.com/Products/RF-Modules/ES-Series-Digital-and-Analog-Wireless-Module/
[01:16] <Laurenceb> yes, but your relying on their modulation scheme
[01:17] <flugnut> af modulation is pretty straightforward
[01:17] <flugnut> "VCO" comes to mind : 3
[01:17] <Laurenceb> I prefer to have full control over the modulation
[01:18] <Laurenceb> which is pretty much what the radiometrix gives you
[01:20] <flugnut> what is your definition of modulation?
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[01:22] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation
[01:23] <Laurenceb> ^sums it up pretty well
[01:23] <flugnut> well yeah
[01:31] <Laurenceb> were using BFSK
[01:32] <Laurenceb> wich is a good physical layer
[01:32] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model <we have a working level 1
[01:33] <flugnut> yep
[01:34] <Laurenceb> we need a better level 2 than RTTY
[01:34] <Laurenceb> but level one is extremely sound
[01:35] Action: Laurenceb is bored...
[01:35] <Laurenceb> maybe I should sleep... I feel dreadful
[01:35] <flugnut> Ok
[01:35] <Laurenceb> hheh
[01:36] <Laurenceb> lots of uni work over the past week, hardly had any sleep for ages
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[03:25] Action: flugnut is loving pyrotechic cutdowns
[03:25] Action: Laurenceb prefers hot resistor
[03:27] <natrium42> nichrome wire seems to work fine :P
[03:28] <flugnut> Yeah, they all work :)
[03:29] <natrium42> amateur radio license classes start on the 27th
[03:29] <natrium42> looks like i didn't miss the start this year :)
[03:29] <flugnut> yay : )
[03:29] <flugnut> what class are you going for?
[03:29] <natrium42> they only run once per year
[03:29] <natrium42> i want advanced radio license because that permits <30MHz
[03:30] <flugnut> us or uk?
[03:30] <natrium42> canada
[03:30] <flugnut> touche : )
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[03:31] <natrium42> it's valid in US too
[03:31] <flugnut> yepyep
[03:31] <natrium42> US exams look easier
[03:31] <natrium42> fewer questions
[03:32] <flugnut> yeah, the technician level test is really easy
[03:32] <flugnut> "this is a radio, that's the ON button...."
[03:32] <natrium42> lol
[03:33] <flugnut> a little more involved of course, but still not bad.
[03:34] <natrium42> right
[03:34] <natrium42> basic license here is 100 questions
[03:34] <natrium42> advanced is 50 additional ones, as far as i understand
[03:35] <flugnut> just hose 2 classeS?
[03:35] <flugnut> er
[03:35] <flugnut> *those : P
[03:35] <natrium42> there's a third one which is morse
[03:35] <flugnut> ahh ok
[03:36] <natrium42> http://www.eham.net/newham/howtobecome
[03:36] <natrium42> "access all amateur bands below 30 MHz" <--- that's my goal :)
[03:36] <flugnut> Yeah
[03:37] <flugnut> awesome :)
[03:38] <natrium42> have you tried any payloads with license-free frequencies?
[03:38] <flugnut> nope
[03:38] <flugnut> since I'm licensed
[03:39] <natrium42> right, i tried 900MHz
[03:39] <flugnut> ah, cool
[03:39] <natrium42> but the mistake was using omni-directional antenna on the ground
[03:40] <natrium42> so the range was up to 6km altitude or so + 12km downrange
[03:40] <flugnut> at what output power?
[03:41] <natrium42> 1 watt
[03:41] <flugnut> ahh ok
[03:42] <natrium42> http://www.digi.com/products/wireless/long-range-multipoint/xtend-module.jsp
[03:42] <flugnut> thats a cute little thing
[03:42] <natrium42> nice thing is they are two-way
[03:42] <flugnut> oh yeah
[03:42] <flugnut> totally.
[03:43] <natrium42> so i was able to downlink thumbnails in flight
[03:43] <flugnut> neat : )
[03:43] <flugnut> using the full 115kbs?
[03:43] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/balloon/downlinked%20thumbs/
[03:43] <natrium42> no, it's 9600 baud
[03:43] <flugnut> ah ok
[03:43] <flugnut> Cool, what sort of camera?
[03:44] <natrium42> canon powershot a70
[03:44] <flugnut> ahh ok
[03:44] <natrium42> it wa connected via USB to verdex
[03:44] <flugnut> sweet.
[03:44] <natrium42> pictures were taken via USB and scaled down by the verdex at request
[03:44] <flugnut> yeah, right
[03:44] <flugnut> the xm4?
[03:45] <natrium42> XL6P
[03:45] <flugnut> ahh, thats next on the list for me.
[03:45] <flugnut> I want to sell my xm4-bt
[03:45] <flugnut> and robostix
[03:46] <flugnut> and get the xl6p and roboaudio.
[03:47] <natrium42> jcoxon may be interested since he burned his gumstix
[03:47] <flugnut> och!
[03:47] <natrium42> he's not on right now, though
[03:47] <flugnut> I see him on #gumstix
[03:47] <flugnut> once in a while
[03:47] <natrium42> aah, great
[03:47] <flugnut> oh, check this out: http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2517/.f?sc=16&category=92034
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[03:49] <flugnut> I'd like to add that at some point, just for fun.
[03:49] <natrium42> neat
[03:49] <natrium42> would be easy to interface with a micro
[03:49] <flugnut> totally
[03:51] <natrium42> is it possible to downlink video using amateur radio?
[03:52] <natrium42> that would be cool
[03:52] <flugnut> yeah, amerature Tv
[03:52] <flugnut> er
[03:52] <flugnut> *armature
[03:52] <flugnut> : (
[03:52] <natrium42> what frequency? and is range going to be enough?
[03:54] <flugnut> our group has run in 433mhz before... but it gets fuzzy at altitude. We send up a little DVR to record the good quality stuff
[03:55] <flugnut> or at least to have a decent copy of it all.
[03:55] <natrium42> right, certainly
[03:57] <natrium42> but still need a license :/
[03:58] <flugnut> no worries, you can do it : )
[03:58] Action: natrium42 has been trying to avoid getting one for a while
[03:58] <flugnut> haha.
[04:01] <flugnut> I just setup the new tracking package in my apartment and took off through town. I was still able to decode the aprs packets about 4 miles through buildings and crap.
[04:01] <natrium42> cool
[04:01] <flugnut> yeah, with the microtrak-300 I had to be within 1/4 mile when it was on the ground.
[04:03] <flugnut> so you have that 900mhz transceiver set up as a serial line between the verdex and your laptop?
[04:05] <flugnut> or... something?
[04:05] <natrium42> yep
[04:05] <flugnut> ok
[04:05] <flugnut> cool : )
[04:05] <natrium42> it's a very easy setup
[04:06] <natrium42> the module handles everything
[04:06] <flugnut> cool. thats what I want to do with the UHX-1s.
[04:06] <flugnut> they are pretty plug and play.
[04:06] <flugnut> and vhf
[04:07] <natrium42> do you use RTTY?
[04:08] <flugnut> hrmmm... let me check
[04:09] <flugnut> http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/uhx1.htm
[04:09] <_johan_> I just got a radio license here in Los Angeles. They have an APRS repeater network here, and the APRS coverage is pretty good.
[04:10] <_johan_> This is what I can recieve from my house. https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/4090/awgtracker.jpg
[04:10] <_johan_> Is there something simelar in the UK?
[04:10] <flugnut> yeah, fsk
[04:10] <_johan_> Ok, and you need a license for that?
[04:11] <flugnut> oops
[04:11] <flugnut> sorry, bad timing
[04:11] <flugnut> natrium42: yeah, it uses fsk
[04:11] <flugnut> _johan_: UK aprs runs on 144.80MHz
[04:11] <_johan_> It's 144.390 here.
[04:12] <flugnut> yep
[04:14] <_johan_> I still cant get my position to show up on the internet servers.. The repeaters recieve it but it does not show up online.
[04:15] <flugnut> you have to hit one connected to the network
[04:16] <_johan_> I managed to send an email over aprs.
[04:16] <flugnut> haha, cool.
[04:17] <_johan_> I'll try to copy some reciver from one that works then.
[04:17] <flugnut> what's your call?
[04:17] <_johan_> KI6PFT-1
[04:18] <flugnut> yeah, I don't see you on findu
[04:18] <flugnut> well, under messages yeah
[04:18] <flugnut> but not position
[04:25] <_johan_> Got it. http://aprs.fi/?call=ki6pft-1&mt=m&z=11&timerange=3600
[04:26] <flugnut> http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=KI6PFT-1
[04:26] <flugnut> yep
[04:27] <_johan_> I need to hook up my computer to the transmit on the radio. Im holding the mic to the speaker and pressing send right now.
[04:27] <flugnut> haha
[04:28] <flugnut> I used to do psk-31 and olivia that way
[04:28] <flugnut> it gets old fast
[04:28] <flugnut> : 3
[04:28] <_johan_> Yeah. There is a connector on the radio. I just need to hook it up.
[04:28] <flugnut> if you have the cash, the Rigbalster setup is pretty decent
[04:29] <flugnut> *rigblaster
[04:29] <flugnut> you can make one up really easy too, loads of schematics out there
[04:30] <_johan_> Have a Yaesu FT-7800 it has fairly simple hookups. I dont think I need a TNC.
[04:30] <flugnut> *looks it up*
[04:31] <_johan_> I put up an antenna on the roof of the house. My wife was shaking her head all the time.
[04:31] <flugnut> " The FT-7800R has a convenient mini-DIN DATA jack on the back panel for a Packet TNC connection to either a 1200 baud or 9600 baud Packet TNC (not supplied)."
[04:31] <flugnut> HAHA
[04:31] <flugnut> ER
[04:31] <flugnut> ahh, caps.
[04:31] <flugnut> looks like a nice little rig
[04:32] <_johan_> Yeah, a TNC would help with humm from the computer and so on. I dont have a problem with that right now.
[04:32] <_johan_> Also spent enough on this. Have to save some for the balloon itself.
[04:32] <flugnut> *nodnod*
[04:32] <flugnut> yeah
[04:33] <flugnut> especially with helium being so expensive
[04:33] <flugnut> *uses h2*
[04:33] <_johan_> Hope you dont smoke.
[04:33] <flugnut> haha, nope.
[04:33] <_johan_> I think we checked the prices. $80 for 1 flight.
[04:33] <flugnut> for balloon + helium?
[04:34] <_johan_> That was helium. Dont remeber the price of the balloon.
[04:34] <flugnut> ah ok
[04:34] <_johan_> How much is H2?
[04:34] <flugnut> $40 for 200ft^3
[04:35] <flugnut> 2 of our members are firefighters, so they supply us with nomex coverals
[04:35] <_johan_> Ah. Yeah, still scary. You cant even see the flames.
[04:36] <_johan_> Where do you live?
[04:36] <flugnut> idaho, at the moment
[04:36] <_johan_> Ok. You have my position :)
[04:36] <flugnut> yepyep
[04:39] <flugnut> http://24.116.155.170/flightlog.txt
[04:39] <flugnut> that's our last launch log. K3ZGO was using a MicroTrak-300 and the others are handie-talkies on 2m
[04:40] <_johan_> Nice. Whats the watt output on the microtrak?
[04:40] <flugnut> 300mw
[04:41] <flugnut> we upgraded to the 8000FA ones, they spit out up to 10W
[04:41] <_johan_> Ah, we are going with a 2w handheld for the baloon and the FT-7800 for recieve.
[04:41] <flugnut> cool beans, that should work nicely
[04:41] <_johan_> We will have a PC104 on there, we want to do packet radio.
[04:42] <_johan_> One of the team wants to a glider next, so we need back and forth comunication in the future.
[04:42] <flugnut> Cool
[04:42] <flugnut> radiometrix has a bunch of packet modems that might help you with that
[04:43] <_johan_> We where planning on using linux and soundcards.
[04:43] <flugnut> ahh ok
[04:43] <_johan_> PC104 is a full PC.
[04:43] <flugnut> cool, yeah, I just looked it up
[04:43] <_johan_> Tiny but fully functional.
[04:43] <flugnut> like the gumstix
[04:44] <_johan_> 1.6ghz AMD geode. So a bit more powerfull :)
[04:44] <flugnut> yeah, kind of overkill eh?
[04:44] <_johan_> This is the one http://www.fit-pc.com/new/. But only the motherboard.
[04:44] <_johan_> The idea was to encode movies from webcams and send it back and so on.
[04:45] <flugnut> neat idea
[04:45] <_johan_> We are all software engineers so software is fun for us. Game developers.
[04:45] <flugnut> ah, cool
[04:46] <_johan_> But yeah, overkill. But the whole thing is pointless over all :)
[04:46] <flugnut> pointless¿
[04:46] <_johan_> Sending balloons to 100,000 feet fills no real purpose. Its just a fun thing to do.
[04:47] <flugnut> lol
[04:47] <flugnut> yeah, thats true
[04:47] <_johan_> So why not just overdo it then.
[04:47] <flugnut> our group has yet to make it to 100k
[04:47] <_johan_> What happens?
[04:47] <flugnut> bragging rights? ; 3
[04:48] <_johan_> Ah yes. True.
[04:48] <_johan_> I ment what happend to your balloons?
[04:48] <flugnut> they popped
[04:48] <_johan_> Hm, odd. I wonder why that is. I though it was pretty much standard with about 100K when the popped.
[04:49] <flugnut> we get close, around 75-80, but our stuff is heavy
[04:49] <flugnut> or I should say... Was
[04:49] <flugnut> the previous tracking capsule weighte 5lbs
[04:50] <_johan_> Thats pretty heavy. We are aiming for 1.5 kg.
[04:50] <_johan_> What took up the weight?
[04:51] <_johan_> 3.3 lb
[04:51] <flugnut> 2 of each : HT's, battery packs, tt3's and gps's
[04:51] <_johan_> tt3?
[04:51] <flugnut> the one we use now is 1lbs, 7oz
[04:51] <flugnut> tiny trak 3
[04:52] <_johan_> What battries did you use?
[04:52] <flugnut> A123's
[04:52] <flugnut> from the dewalt 36v packs
[04:52] <_johan_> Whats that? Lithium?
[04:52] <flugnut> yep, lithium nanophosphate
[04:53] <flugnut> if you overcharge them, they don't explod, if you crush/puncute them, they don't catch fire
[04:53] <flugnut> *puncture
[04:53] <_johan_> We are going with energizer lithium e2 .
[04:53] <_johan_> Not rechargable.
[04:54] <flugnut> *nod*
[04:54] <flugnut> we used them before we got these batteries
[04:54] <_johan_> Any problems?
[04:54] <flugnut> not really
[04:55] <flugnut> I have a crapload of the Ultralife 9v batteries that I want to get rid of, too, if anyone is interested
[04:55] <_johan_> This is the radio we are going to use. http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=111&encProdID=5CB596EBED9A3EE26635C7E1F02500D9&DivisionID=65&isArchived=0
[04:55] <flugnut> nifty
[04:55] <flugnut> thats close to what we used to use
[04:56] <_johan_> Akawaka bought 40 of the energizer ones on ebay.
[04:56] <flugnut> ahaa
[04:56] <_johan_> Do you have something that gets rid of the balloon?
[04:56] <flugnut> just make sure all your connections are rock solid, list all your points of failure
[04:57] <flugnut> yeah, a cutdown device
[04:57] <_johan_> How does it function?
[04:57] <_johan_> We wanted to burn of the rope with a metal wire. Like a toaster.
[04:58] <flugnut> tiny light bulb filament sets off a little bit of smokeless powder that's cast in plastic with some rope, blows to pieces and fires using 60ma at 3v
[04:58] <flugnut> I've heard of groups using nichrome and having it fail, and some who have used it and it works every time, so you might want to test alot
[05:00] <flugnut> http://24.116.155.170/scrap/cutdown1.jpg
[05:00] <_johan_> Yeah. In a freezer I guess.
[05:00] <flugnut> http://24.116.155.170/scrap/cutdown2.jpg
[05:00] <flugnut> yeah, good idea
[05:01] <_johan_> So you have a small explosive device?
[05:01] <flugnut> yep
[05:01] <_johan_> Nice, never thought of that.
[05:01] <flugnut> thanks
[05:01] <_johan_> The fireman's idea?
[05:02] <flugnut> nope, mine
[05:02] <_johan_> Ah. Cool.
[05:03] <_johan_> Do you need a license to buy powder?
[05:03] <flugnut> depends on the state, I think
[05:04] <_johan_> Im sure someone at work can buy some. I do work on a WWII shooter after all :)
[05:04] <flugnut> lol
[05:04] <flugnut> yeah, you'll only need a few tenths of a gram
[05:05] <flugnut> I use No. 2 double base smokeless
[05:05] <_johan_> Its a good idea.
[05:06] <akawaka> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/ideas:flight_support#pyrotechnic_cutdown_device
[05:06] <akawaka> was planning on trying something like that today
[05:06] <flugnut> THere you go
[05:06] <akawaka> but never got a chance to stop buy the hobby store to buy igniters
[05:07] <flugnut> I use tiny light bulbs
[05:07] <flugnut> http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/LP-6/search/14V_T-1_(3MM)_LAMP_W__10%22#34;_INSULATED_WIRE_LEADS_.html
[05:07] <flugnut> like that.
[05:08] <akawaka> you remove the bulb?
[05:08] <flugnut> carefully
[05:08] <flugnut> just crack off the top
[05:08] <flugnut> the filament is pretty strong
[05:10] <_johan_> Na, I should build that TNC. I'll talk to you later.
[05:10] <flugnut> Ok
[05:11] <flugnut> : )
[05:47] <_johan_> Crap. Im on a computer without serial ports.
[06:15] <akawaka> yeah, got sick of that, bought a usb to serial adaptor today
[06:16] <akawaka> couldn't find a bloody 4-connector headphone plug today
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[07:40] <Hiena> Good morning!
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[10:06] <jcoxon> Good morning everyone
[10:06] <jcoxon> looks like a busy evening on the logs
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[10:24] <jcoxon> i'm a little scared:
[10:24] <jcoxon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/magazinemonitor/2008/03/thursdays_quote_of_the_day_3.shtml
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[15:06] <flugnut> 'Morning
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[15:28] <flugnut> clones!
[15:28] <flugnut> is one using the other for spare organs?
[15:29] <Akadecca> food
[15:29] <flugnut> hahahaha!
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[15:29] Nick change: Akadecca -> akawaka
[15:29] <flugnut> : )
[15:29] <akawaka> can't seem to find an example soundmodem.conf online
[15:30] <flugnut> create it with soundmodemconfig
[15:30] <akawaka> and the only other way to generate one is soundmodemconfig, but that is a gtk app and i don't have X installed
[15:30] <flugnut> ahhh...
[15:30] <flugnut> use x11 forwarding?
[15:31] <akawaka> running on a very small box, don't think i have room to install all the X stuff
[15:31] <flugnut> ok
[15:31] <akawaka> or the time to compile it really
[15:31] <flugnut> I'll post mine
[15:31] <akawaka> cheers
[15:32] <flugnut> http://24.116.155.170/soundmodem.conf
[15:33] <flugnut> setting up soundmodem on the gumstix?
[15:34] <akawaka> thank you
[15:34] <flugnut> no problem-o
[15:34] <akawaka> no, a little pc104 box call fit-pc
[15:34] <flugnut> oooooh, right, right
[15:34] <akawaka> gumstix would work just as well
[15:35] <akawaka> but its nice to have usb ports, and a sturdy construction
[15:35] <flugnut> yeah, its nice ot know about the fit-pc though
[15:35] <akawaka> luckily I have an early model that has an undocumented built in 512meg nand flash drive
[15:35] <flugnut> cool
[15:39] <flugnut> the wifi module for the gumstix also has a micro-SD card slot, so I tossed a 2gb one in there for data storage
[15:40] <flugnut> othrewise you can make up your own board to break out the USB signals on the 24 pin flex cable connector. Its not real hard, but I already have all the stuff for making circuit boards
[15:41] <akawaka> i've had two broken serial tweener boards for the gumstix
[15:41] <akawaka> kind of turned me off
[15:42] <flugnut> like, they arrived broken?
[15:50] <flugnut> brb, shower
[16:00] <akawaka> not sure, might have bricked them myself
[16:03] <flugnut> ok
[16:04] <akawaka> my alsa hw doesn't seem to like playing or recording mono
[16:05] <flugnut> is that a problem from the soundmodem config?
[16:05] <flugnut> I can change it if you like.
[16:05] <akawaka> no, its fine, i have no problem tweaking it
[16:05] <flugnut> Ok
[16:06] <akawaka> but when selecting a playback device, soundmodem always opens it mono, rather than allowing you to select the left or right channel
[16:06] <akawaka> had to modify the code
[16:06] <flugnut> ah, ok
[16:06] <flugnut> OH, btw
[16:07] <flugnut> I added a logging function to soundmodem, it parses and spits out the packet in a form that can be read by aprs programs
[16:08] <flugnut> to a file "aprs.log" to the folder soundmodem was run from
[16:08] <flugnut> because I had problems with re-directing stdout from soundmodem
[16:13] <flugnut> if anyone wants the added bits....
[16:13] <flugnut> I don't know how to do patches, so I'll just post the changes.
[16:16] <akawaka> thanks
[16:26] <flugnut> http://24.116.155.170/soundmodem-log.txt
[16:27] <flugnut> http://24.116.155.170/scrap/soundmodem-0.10-logfile.tar.gz
[16:27] <flugnut> thats the code with the modification.
[16:27] <akawaka> can't get alsa to output anything
[16:28] <flugnut> so soundmodem just sits there?
[16:28] <akawaka> just trying to get sound itself to work first:)
[16:28] <flugnut> ahhh ok
[16:30] <flugnut> is alsamixer installed?
[16:30] <akawaka> okay, just managed to get sound output
[16:31] <flugnut> cool.
[16:33] <akawaka> of course, whenever i hook everything up the aprs freq always goes quiet!:)
[16:33] <flugnut> hahaa
[16:33] <flugnut> where are you at?
[16:33] <akawaka> socal
[16:34] <flugnut> ok
[16:34] <flugnut> a bit far for my stuff to reach : )
[16:34] <akawaka> i'm down by the coast behind a big hill so i don't get much of anything here
[16:34] <flugnut> do you have a digipeater close?
[16:35] <flugnut> I should be able to send my stuff to you if there is.
[16:35] <akawaka> looks like there are some pretty close by
[16:37] <flugnut> what's the name of them so I can put them in my digipath?
[16:39] <akawaka> whats a good place to get a list?
[16:39] <flugnut> if you can pick up packets, you should be able to spot them
[16:45] <flugnut> http://www.qsl.net/scdcc/caaprsdigis.html
[16:45] <flugnut> which one are you closest to?
[16:48] <akawaka> pasadena maybe, NW6H
[16:49] <flugnut> ok
[16:56] <flugnut> lemme know if you see K3ZGO :3
[17:05] <flugnut> ona side note, how does one go about registering nicks on this server?
[17:07] <akawaka> flugnut: /msg nickserv help
[17:07] <akawaka> okay, connecting the radio to my oc causes it to lose reception
[17:08] <flugnut> what sort of output coupler do you have set up?
[17:08] <flugnut> /msg nickserv help
[17:08] <flugnut> : (
[17:08] <akawaka> output coupler? i have a cable going from the headphone jack on my radio to the input on my pc
[17:09] <flugnut> you should decouple it
[17:09] <akawaka> how?
[17:09] <flugnut> put a capacitor in line with your audio signal
[17:10] Nick change: flugnut -> FuzzyLugnut
[17:13] <FuzzyLugnut> brb
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[17:15] <akawaka> to filter out dc?
[17:15] <fuzzylugnut> Yep
[17:19] <akawaka> can you recommend a size?
[17:20] <fuzzylugnut> iuf would do it
[17:20] <fuzzylugnut> er
[17:20] <fuzzylugnut> 1uf
[17:20] <fuzzylugnut> if its electrolytic, you need to make sure the polarity is right
[17:20] <fuzzylugnut> soo.... if it doesn't work, just flip it around
[17:21] <akawaka> so why would connecting this cable cause the signal to disappear?
[17:23] <fuzzylugnut> the dc offset could be above the dynamic range of your soundcard's input, so it would be just seeing the dc, and not the audio on it.
[17:24] <akawaka> see its not that, the radio can be receiving a signal, even just voice, but when i connect this cable the signal strength drops to zero
[17:24] <fuzzylugnut> Ooohh....
[17:25] <fuzzylugnut> hmm.
[17:26] <fuzzylugnut> does that happen when the radio's ground touches your computer's ground?
[17:26] <akawaka> yeah
[17:27] <fuzzylugnut> weird.
[17:27] <fuzzylugnut> so like you can connect only the ground of the radio to the computer's chassis and it will go dead?
[17:28] <akawaka> yeah
[17:29] <fuzzylugnut> and they arn't connected in any other way except by ground?
[17:31] <akawaka> correct
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[17:32] <fuzzylugnut> the only thing i can think of is RFI from your computer
[17:34] <fuzzylugnut> but if it was that I would think that your signal strength meter would be S10+, not 0
[17:36] <RocketBoy> Anyone want me to get them some Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA batteries? - I'm doing them for £1 each (plus postage at cost)
[17:37] <fuzzylugnut> nothanks, I'm trying to get rid of about 10 Utralife 9v lithiums
[17:37] <fuzzylugnut> do you want them? : 3
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[17:39] <RocketBoy> these http://www.ultralifebatteries.com/datasheet.php?ID=U9VL-FP?
[17:40] <fuzzylugnut> http://www.ultralifebatteries.com/datasheet.php?ID=U9VLBP
[17:40] <fuzzylugnut> those
[17:40] <fuzzylugnut> I have 11
[17:41] <fuzzylugnut> and don't use them anymore
[17:41] <RocketBoy> nice - but I'm thinking what would I use them for - most of my stuff is 3.3V/5V - so quite a drop
[17:42] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, alot would be wasted unless you use a dc-dc converter
[17:42] <RocketBoy> I could ask the rocketry guys - they might be interested - are they packaged?
[17:42] <fuzzylugnut> Yep
[17:43] <fuzzylugnut> new in box.
[17:43] <fuzzylugnut> I use A123 M1 batteries now.
[17:46] <RocketBoy> drop me an email (steve@btinternet.com) with your addy in it and I'll get back to you
[17:46] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[17:49] <fuzzylugnut> Ok, email sent.
[17:51] <fuzzylugnut> akawaka: any luck?
[17:51] <fuzzylugnut> you might have to use an audio isolation transformer.
[18:03] <akawaka> okay, well
[18:03] <akawaka> i exposed the ground connection on the cable
[18:04] <akawaka> holding the radio in my hand and touching the ground on the audio cable with my other fingers improves the strength
[18:08] <fuzzylugnut> weird
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[18:29] <fuzzylugnut> akawaka: I turned off my APRS transmitter, if you get soundmodem up, I'll turn it back on so we can see if the digipath works
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[18:30] <akawaka> thanks
[18:30] <Laurenceb> hi folks
[18:31] <akawaka> gotta go grab dinner with family so gotta pack it in for the day anyway
[18:32] <Laurenceb> RocketBoy: We might be able to do a launch later this week or at the weekend, when are you free?
[18:32] <fuzzylugnut> ok, seeya
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[18:48] <fuzzylugnut> New pics! http://24.116.155.170/trak/tracker.html
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[18:49] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:49] <fuzzylugnut> Hey
[18:49] <jcoxon> hey fuzzylugnut
[18:49] <fuzzylugnut> oh, man, were you looking for a gumstix?
[18:49] <jcoxon> ummmmmmmm
[18:49] <fuzzylugnut> I want to get rid of my xm4-bt and robostix
[18:50] <jcoxon> don't tempt me :-)
[18:50] <fuzzylugnut> for 120$
[18:50] <fuzzylugnut> it works, I just don't need the bluetooth and I prefer the roboaudio.
[18:51] <jcoxon> what sort of postage do you reckon? (i guess i can avoid the whole VAT rubbish)
[18:51] <fuzzylugnut> dunno... where are you at?
[18:51] <jcoxon> UK
[18:51] <fuzzylugnut> ah, hmm
[18:52] <jcoxon> actually fuzzylugnut don't worry
[18:52] <fuzzylugnut> probably 20, I'd imagine.... but its not heavy so i don't knpw
[18:52] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[18:52] <jcoxon> i can't really afford it
[18:52] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[18:52] <fuzzylugnut> : (
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[18:52] <jcoxon> as i'm probably going to get a new GM862 module as this one is bust
[18:52] <fuzzylugnut> nifty
[18:53] <Hiena> Good evening!
[18:53] <fuzzylugnut> Heya
[18:53] <jcoxon> fuzzylugnut, but thanks!
[18:54] <fuzzylugnut> no problem, I'll still have it should you change your mind
[18:54] <fuzzylugnut> I wish we had GSM over here : (
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[18:54] <jcoxon> well i'll keep it in mind - would go really well on my robosapien
[18:54] <fuzzylugnut> lol... you're what¿
[18:55] <jcoxon> http://mainlybreakingthings.blogspot.com/
[18:55] <jcoxon> at the moment its got an arduino + radiomodem
[18:56] <jcoxon> and the main 'brain' is on my laptop
[18:56] <jcoxon> however could easily be shifted to a gumstix
[18:56] <Laurenceb> you can make a payload with an arduino
[18:56] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, indeed you could
[18:57] <fuzzylugnut> oooh, the little robot thing
[18:57] <jcoxon> yup
[18:57] <jcoxon> he is a bit more advanced now with an IR range sensor
[18:58] <jcoxon> he randomly wanders around and avoids objects
[18:58] <fuzzylugnut> lol
[18:58] <fuzzylugnut> sounds like me, drunk
[18:58] <jcoxon> he does come across as being drunk
[18:58] <fuzzylugnut> haha.
[18:58] <jcoxon> he also occasionally wolf whistles
[18:58] <Laurenceb> how does the collision avoidance work?
[18:58] <fuzzylugnut> HAHA!
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[18:59] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, well i've done 2 modes, either if he gets too close then he walks backwards a bit and choses randomly left or right
[18:59] <jcoxon> or
[18:59] <jcoxon> he does a sweep and can map out objects
[18:59] <jcoxon> but thats still a work in progress
[18:59] <Laurenceb> neat
[18:59] <Laurenceb> I was thinking of making a little wheeled bot with a SLAM system
[19:00] <Laurenceb> active robots sell some good long range IR rangefinders
[19:00] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, yeah the Sharp ones are good
[19:01] <jcoxon> i spent this morning constructively - converted a python version of Eliza to work on IRC
[19:01] <Laurenceb> I've played around before with simulated SLAM algorythms
[19:01] <jcoxon> if you are really board -> #highaltitude99
[19:01] <Laurenceb> Eliza?
[19:01] <jcoxon> bored*
[19:01] <Laurenceb> right
[19:01] <jcoxon> say hello
[19:02] <jcoxon> Laurenceb,
[19:03] <Laurenceb> very nice
[19:03] <jcoxon> this version is pretty rubbish
[19:03] <Laurenceb> didnt know zeusbot would do that either
[19:03] <Laurenceb> yes :P
[19:03] <jcoxon> oh i added that yesterday
[19:03] <Laurenceb> sweet
[19:03] <jcoxon> and now you can search the zeusbot logs
[19:03] <jcoxon> did that yesterday as well
[19:03] <Laurenceb> I saw :P
[19:05] <Laurenceb> anyway, SLAM + Bellman flooding seems to work quite well for robot navigation
[19:05] <jcoxon> the problem with Bobo (the robot) is that when he walks he sways side to side unlike if it were wheels
[19:05] <Laurenceb> yes
[19:06] <Laurenceb> I'd like to make a little two wheeled thing with a servo mounted scanning IR rangefinder
[19:07] <Laurenceb> scan out surroundings, update map, work out where it wants to move to, drive there, repeat :P
[19:12] <jcoxon> i've got a miniservo
[19:12] <jcoxon> might decapitate Bobo and remount it on a servo
[19:13] <jcoxon> and therefore allow scanning
[19:13] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:19] <Hiena> Laurenceb, mount the rangefinder to a motor, and let's spin it. It would make better navigation.
[19:22] <Hiena> Also with one additional motor and position encoder could create almost perfect 3D scanning.
[19:22] <Laurenceb> the response time is quite low
[19:24] <Hiena> How much?
[19:29] <Laurenceb> not sure, havent looked it up
[19:31] <Laurenceb> http://www.active-robots.com/products/sensors/sharp/gp2y0a02yk.pdf
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[19:31] <Hiena> I found the IR rangefinders quite amusing. I worked one on the SU-22 targeting system.
[19:32] <Laurenceb> so about 40ms
[19:32] <Laurenceb> oh wow
[19:32] <fuzzylugnut> rad : )
[19:32] <Laurenceb> I was looking at that the other day, very interesting
[19:34] <Hiena> 40ms is not bad.
[19:35] <Laurenceb> its not a bad price either
[19:36] <Hiena> Is this part aviable as free sample?
[19:36] <Laurenceb> not sure
[19:37] <Laurenceb> would have to look on the sharp site I guess
[19:37] <Laurenceb> pity the datasheet doesnt say what the angular resolution is
[19:38] <Hiena> I'm thinking to use it for the droptests as altimeter. We have 3m ladder, so it would be work right on the cover-up position.
[19:38] <Laurenceb> well its max range is only 1.5 meters
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[19:41] <Hiena> Yup. For the first half of the drop, isn't so interesting. The most 1m scale moder starts recover from the drop at 1-1.2m.
[19:43] <Hiena> Also, i coded the sequence processing program for the external camera, and fount the most wideo is useless.
[19:44] <Laurenceb> nice
[19:45] <Hiena> The K building hall at the uni., where we used to do the drop-test, has white walls. The wing is white depron...
[19:45] <Laurenceb> hehe
[19:45] <Laurenceb> I like this- http://www.avrprojects.net/articles.php?lng=en&pg=65
[19:48] <Laurenceb> bbl
[19:48] <Hiena> Ohohoho, this is just what the doctor prescribed for my wingcutter! Thanks Laurenceb
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[21:19] <fuzzylugnut> *sets off cutdown devices so he can make more*
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[21:32] <edmoore> hi RocketBoy
[21:32] <RocketBoy> hi ed - hows it going
[21:32] <edmoore> not bad thanks. Just working on my last report of term
[21:32] <edmoore> until freedom
[21:33] <edmoore> or at least, its close neighbour - revision
[21:33] <RocketBoy> how is the ball planning going?
[21:33] <edmoore> oh the ball happened
[21:33] <edmoore> it was a srping ball
[21:34] <edmoore> feb 15th
[21:34] <edmoore> it went well, thankfully. Life was nice when it finished
[21:34] <RocketBoy> oh - i thought it was a May ball
[21:34] <RocketBoy> np#
[21:34] <RocketBoy> tell me about you badger
[21:34] <RocketBoy> your
[21:35] <RocketBoy> - like who makes it?
[21:35] <RocketBoy> is it a linix SBC?
[21:35] <edmoore> we make it
[21:35] <edmoore> it doesn't run linux, but it does run a premptive OS called TNKernal
[21:36] <edmoore> it's a telit module and Lassen IQ module on one side (they govern the board dimensions - just under 80 x 50), and an ARM7-core chip on the other
[21:36] <edmoore> a full size sd slot, with fat32, temp and 3 axis accelerometer on board
[21:37] <RocketBoy> oooh - ARM - interesting
[21:37] <edmoore> digital IO for bangs and cameras and stuff
[21:37] <edmoore> and i2c and spi out to run expansions boards or other sensors or whatever
[21:37] <fuzzylugnut> woo!
[21:37] <RocketBoy> whats the programming environment?
[21:38] <edmoore> essentially it's desigtned that it can be a complete flight computer on its own but also have expansions boards like multi-channel pyro boards, IMUs, or whatever
[21:38] <edmoore> we're using rowley crossworks
[21:38] <edmoore> it's GCC based but with custom math libraries
[21:38] <edmoore> and an ide frontend to gcc
[21:38] <edmoore> crossplatform
[21:38] <edmoore> and a really nice debugger, which I think is what makes it worth paying for (tho it's sponsored)
[21:39] <edmoore> and it has full hardware USB, too
[21:39] <edmoore> tho have yet to code that, but there seem to be some pretty solid libraries for the lpc2148 about
[21:39] <RocketBoy> I think its uesed for mobile phone development IIR
[21:39] <RocketBoy> ?
[21:40] <edmoore> what is?
[21:41] <RocketBoy> crossworks
[21:41] <edmoore> oh I'm not sure
[21:41] <Laurenceb> edmoore: nice work
[21:41] <edmoore> seems to have a fair few customers tho. I guess the big players wouldn't use GCC, but I think it's about as good as it gets for GCC
[21:42] <Laurenceb> where are you getting the boards made up?
[21:42] <edmoore> on the arm, at least
[21:42] <edmoore> olimex
[21:42] <Laurenceb> cool
[21:42] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking of pcbcart
[21:42] <Laurenceb> its as fast and can do higher spec boards
[21:43] <edmoore> do you have a link? anywhere faster/cheaper/better is always interesting
[21:43] <Laurenceb> www.pcbcart.com
[21:45] <Laurenceb> I'm quite keen on really small stuff, if you've got a good board, hand soldering 0603 and TSSOP is easy
[21:46] <edmoore> we're using 0805 on this, but that's kind of arbitrary. resistor sizes weren't a huge problem, it was getting awkward things like JTAG on that caused problems
[21:46] <Laurenceb> pcbcart have an tooling cost, but the price per area is cheaper than batchpcb, they will ship to the UK in around 10 days, and you have a good choice of board materials
[21:47] <fuzzylugnut> how about pcbexpress?
[21:47] <Laurenceb> expensive?
[21:47] <Laurenceb> that reminds me, need to put up a photo of the v2.0 thermopile pcb
[21:48] <fuzzylugnut> not sure, I only use their software. I think htye have a 3 boards for $50 deal
[21:48] <Laurenceb> I see, i'll look into it
[21:48] <Laurenceb> and also get the thermopiles working :P
[21:48] <fuzzylugnut> Its fun to make your own if you have the stuff, too.
[21:49] <Laurenceb> RocketBoy: Would you be free for a launch later this week?
[21:49] <RocketBoy> Should be
[21:50] <Laurenceb> we might be able to get the aerosol experiment ready, but we still have to pot the HV supplies and fix the radio
[21:50] <Laurenceb> cool, weekdays?
[21:50] <RocketBoy> The permit is only for weekends
[21:50] <Laurenceb> I was thinking maybe thursday/friday or Saturday
[21:51] <Laurenceb> ah
[21:51] <fuzzylugnut> http://24.116.155.170/scrap/cpu_board.jpg (made in the kitchen)
[21:51] <Laurenceb> well if the weather is good
[21:51] <Laurenceb> and we are ready, Saturday might just be possible
[21:51] <Laurenceb> nice work, laser printer?
[21:52] <fuzzylugnut> yep
[21:52] <Laurenceb> sweet *buys laser printer*
[21:52] <fuzzylugnut> haha
[21:53] <Laurenceb> I've been meaning to get one for ages, they are very cheap
[21:53] <Laurenceb> I have an inkjet but its insanely expensive to run
[21:54] <fuzzylugnut> *nod*
[21:54] <Laurenceb> fuzzylugnut: this is what I'm hoping to launch soon: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:aerosol
[21:55] <fuzzylugnut> li-poly! : o
[21:55] <fuzzylugnut> Looks cool, I like it : )
[21:57] <fuzzylugnut> just 1 gps?
[21:58] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:58] <fuzzylugnut> is anything redundant?
[21:59] <Laurenceb> well if the flight computer fails we'll still have the radio
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[21:59] <Laurenceb> its not really redundant
[21:59] <fuzzylugnut> and just find it with a yagi?
[21:59] <Laurenceb> its designed to isolate things
[21:59] <fuzzylugnut> ok
[21:59] <Laurenceb> so if something fails it wont take the rest down
[21:59] <fuzzylugnut> *nod*
[21:59] <Laurenceb> so there multiple power supplies
[21:59] <fuzzylugnut> what sensors do you have on it?
[22:00] <Laurenceb> almost everything can fail and we'' still be able to find it
[22:00] <Laurenceb> there differential pressure, temperature, ionisation current in the sampler
[22:00] <fuzzylugnut> nifty
[22:00] <Laurenceb> then a few different voltages
[22:01] <fuzzylugnut> battery and such?
[22:01] <Laurenceb> lithium photos and lipo
[22:01] <fuzzylugnut> *nod*
[22:02] <fuzzylugnut> Good luck with it all
[22:02] <fuzzylugnut> I'm interested to see how the sampler works out.
[22:02] <Laurenceb> but the radio is giving me issues at the moment, hopefully I'll have it sorted on monday
[22:02] <fuzzylugnut> did you calibrate it?
[22:02] <fuzzylugnut> the sampler, I mean
[22:02] <Laurenceb> failing that I've borrowed one of RocketBoy's radios :P
[22:03] <fuzzylugnut> Ok
[22:03] <Laurenceb> using an nebuliser
[22:03] <fuzzylugnut> killer.
[22:03] <Laurenceb> then a aerosol spectrometer
[22:03] <Laurenceb> on the exhaust
[22:03] <fuzzylugnut> right
[22:03] <Laurenceb> turn the HV on/off and see what the difference is
[22:04] <fuzzylugnut> you could shrink those alot more
[22:04] <Laurenceb> the spectrometer works by shining a laser through the airflow, and filing with a CCD
[22:04] <fuzzylugnut> and that is sensitive enough?
[22:05] <Laurenceb> but thats not going up with the payload unfortunately, is a few grand
[22:05] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, 'd imaigne.
[22:05] <Laurenceb> yes, its a very nice piece of kit :P
[22:05] <Laurenceb> goes down to 100nm
[22:05] <fuzzylugnut> ahh ok
[22:05] <fuzzylugnut> 2 and 5kv units?
[22:06] <Laurenceb> for different altitudes
[22:06] <Laurenceb> the dielectric strenght of the air decreases with altitude
[22:06] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, I saw 3 tubes so I thought there was another that wasn't labled
[22:06] <edmoore> FuzzyLugnut: I was having a look around your website (lot's of cool stuff!). I noticed you're building a fusor!
[22:06] <fuzzylugnut> lol yeah, old project
[22:07] <Laurenceb> haha cool
[22:07] <fuzzylugnut> I had to stop because I needed to tig weld.
[22:07] <edmoore> surely you can find someone who can tig? Heck, it's an excuse to buy a tig and learn the dark arts
[22:07] <Laurenceb> go to a garage
[22:07] <fuzzylugnut> haha, yeah, it is, and I will, as soon as I move to TN and start my job.
[22:07] <edmoore> did you ever see some of the other internet fusor projects?
[22:08] <Laurenceb> my local garage will do tig welding for me
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> Yep, they're pretty cool.
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> http://24.116.155.170/road_trip/yellowstone/img_0656.jpg
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> thats me
[22:08] <edmoore> did you come across the Hallam and Noble one?
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> with a spine.
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> ummm, nope
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> not that I remmeeber at least
[22:08] <edmoore> yes.... with a spine
[22:08] <edmoore> oh well
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> : 3
[22:08] <edmoore> the noble in hallam and noble is fnoble who is often on here
[22:08] <fuzzylugnut> oh, cool.
[22:08] <edmoore> building the badger board with me
[22:09] <fuzzylugnut> badger badger badger?
[22:09] <edmoore> they completed theres. lots of cool stuff, and lots of scary stuff that almost killed me (like mains distribution through a breadboard)
[22:09] <fuzzylugnut> HAHA!
[22:10] <edmoore> well, if the people from badger badger badger saw our silkscreen logo, they might have something to say....
[22:10] <Laurenceb> arrgggggg snnnaaakkkkkkkeeee
[22:10] <fuzzylugnut> : )
[22:11] <Laurenceb> fraid I've gtg, bbl
[22:11] <fuzzylugnut> laters
[22:12] <edmoore> cya
[22:19] <fuzzylugnut> when our group gave a presentation at the RISE conference, they asked us "Do you just take pictures?"
[22:19] <fuzzylugnut> our response is the addition of the gumstis, a 3axis accelerometer, temperature, pressure, and a little geiger counter.
[22:26] <edmoore> perfect :)
[22:26] <edmoore> well I went to a lecture by the guy who designed the descent system for the Huygen's probe to Titan, a few weeks back.
[22:27] <fuzzylugnut> wow, cool
[22:27] <edmoore> His biggest complaint is that they only had a single axis 1hz 'housekeeping' accelerometer on board the probe. That was their only source of data
[22:27] <edmoore> and his pleaed was for us, as future engineers or whatever, to instrument things up properly
[22:27] <fuzzylugnut> haha, cool
[22:27] <edmoore> that's why we put a 3axis accelerometer on the badgerboard
[22:28] <edmoore> and want to have lots of video cameras for next time
[22:28] <fuzzylugnut> DVR for recording?
[22:28] <edmoore> whatever is cheap and on ebay
[22:28] <edmoore> :)
[22:28] <fuzzylugnut> lol
[22:28] <edmoore> but yeah basically
[22:29] <edmoore> 320x240 and with an SD card slot. That'll do me
[22:29] <edmoore> would be good to have it record with a system-wide time stamp too
[22:29] <edmoore> but that probably involes more serious cpu
[22:29] <fuzzylugnut> *looks up the one we use*
[22:30] <edmoore> complete system integration would be so nice
[22:30] <edmoore> a couple of redundant 4gb sd cards with everything written on them - digital pics, vids, flight data etc
[22:30] <edmoore> but alas no, it'll probably never be
[22:32] <fuzzylugnut> hmm
[22:32] <fuzzylugnut> sounds like you want a gumstix with webcams
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[22:35] <fuzzylugnut> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/434784-REG/Svat_CVP800_CVP800_Mini_Portable_Digital.html
[22:35] <fuzzylugnut> we use one of those...... awww he left.
[22:37] <fuzzylugnut> aaaaaaaaaaaaaa! "Vault" is not a soda x_X
[22:37] <fuzzylugnut> its some sort of energy drink
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[22:43] <fuzzylugnut> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/434784-REG/Svat_CVP800_CVP800_Mini_Portable_Digital.html
[22:43] <fuzzylugnut> we use that DVR
[22:43] <edmoore> looks nice
[22:43] <edmoore> yeah you might be right about the gumstix
[22:43] <edmoore> still, 300ma....
[22:43] <edmoore> makes me feel a bit queasy
[22:44] <fuzzylugnut> get some A123 batteries : 3
[22:44] <edmoore> I resent my gps for using 50mA
[22:44] <edmoore> by far the biggest hog
[22:44] <fuzzylugnut> lol
[22:45] <edmoore> the blackfin processors look really nice
[22:45] <fuzzylugnut> *looks em up*
[22:46] <fuzzylugnut> cool
[22:47] <edmoore> low power consumption, and has a uclinux port. and designed for video-ey stuff
[22:47] <fuzzylugnut> cool
[22:48] <edmoore> still, one of those 'if I only had unlimited time' things
[22:48] <fuzzylugnut> yeah
[22:48] <fuzzylugnut> and money
[22:48] <edmoore> got the ARM learning curve to keep me going for now
[22:48] <edmoore> and money too
[22:49] <fuzzylugnut> I leave that to more capable people
[22:49] <edmoore> if only i was rich and had a 24h pcb fab house next door
[22:49] <edmoore> sigh
[22:49] <fuzzylugnut> haha.
[22:50] <fuzzylugnut> thats why I learned to make my own. I'm impatient.
[22:53] <edmoore> and sensible
[22:53] <fuzzylugnut> some would argue : 3
[22:53] <edmoore> just being able to make a breakout board for an smd ic to use with breadboard would be a real boon
[22:53] <fuzzylugnut> ah, yeah
[22:56] <edmoore> have decided to learn linux
[22:56] <edmoore> all these people in all this embedded stuff all speak linux and it upsets me that I don't
[22:56] <fuzzylugnut> good for you!
[22:57] <fuzzylugnut> soon we'll teach you the special handshake to get you free beers.
[22:57] <edmoore> i hope to see people on the street
[22:57] <edmoore> and do the special walk
[22:57] <edmoore> and see if they do it back
[22:58] <edmoore> then i'll feel like one of the cool kids
[22:58] <fuzzylugnut> like on monty python "ministry of silly walks" ?
[22:58] <edmoore> anyway, downloading slackware. into the unknown we go
[22:58] <edmoore> exactly
[22:58] <edmoore> the linux walk
[22:58] <fuzzylugnut> : )
[23:06] <edmoore> gosh, it's big
[23:06] <fuzzylugnut> .......
[23:07] <edmoore> need to consult jcoxon, slackware guru
[23:07] <fuzzylugnut> "THATS WHAT SHE SAID"
[23:07] <fuzzylugnut> XD
[23:07] <edmoore> hohoho
[23:07] <fuzzylugnut> ; P
[23:10] <fuzzylugnut> I use SuSE, but its kind of bloated, so I might switch.
[23:11] <edmoore> I'm not really sure about anything
[23:11] <edmoore> it's kind of fun that way
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[23:12] <fuzzylugnut> yeah : )
[23:14] <jcoxon> tada
[23:14] <jcoxon> I'm here edmoore
[23:14] <edmoore> wow
[23:14] <edmoore> scary
[23:14] <edmoore> how do you do that?
[23:14] <jcoxon> the logs
[23:15] <edmoore> you're like a fairy IRC godmother
[23:15] <jcoxon> and coincidence
[23:15] <jcoxon> highaltitude99
[23:15] <jcoxon> haha
[23:15] <fuzzylugnut> whats different about 99?
[23:15] <jcoxon> oh i stuck my morning project on it
[23:16] <fuzzylugnut> ah
[23:17] <jcoxon> actually
[23:18] <fuzzylugnut> :o
[23:31] Action: Laurenceb is back :P
[23:31] <jcoxon> RocketBoy,
[23:31] <jcoxon> we are both free
[23:31] <edmoore> am free rb
[23:31] <edmoore> sorry
[23:31] <edmoore> was stuck in my emulator
[23:31] <edmoore> couldn't get out to confirm that I am infact free
[23:32] <Laurenceb> so fuzzylognut: how much current does a fusor need, and what voltage?
[23:32] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking the CCFL technique i used for the aerosol collector might work
[23:32] <fuzzylugnut> HAHA
[23:33] <fuzzylugnut> thats what iuse for the power supply on my geiger counter
[23:33] <Laurenceb> its very cool, high efficiency and small
[23:33] <fuzzylugnut> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=289-1047-ND
[23:34] <fuzzylugnut> I use that one
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[23:34] <Laurenceb> not bad
[23:34] <fuzzylugnut> and for the fuser, current is porportinal to reaction rate. the voltage threshold varies with the reaction, D-T is the lowest, think
[23:35] <fuzzylugnut> *proportional :P
[23:35] <Laurenceb> hmm I need some tritium :P
[23:36] <fuzzylugnut> easier to get than you htink
[23:36] <fuzzylugnut> tritium exit sighs have 10's of Curies in them.
[23:36] <fuzzylugnut> er
[23:36] <Laurenceb> ah of course
[23:36] <fuzzylugnut> blah......*signs
[23:36] <Laurenceb> amazing
[23:36] <Laurenceb> just need deuterium.....
[23:37] <fuzzylugnut> expensive, but attainable.
[23:37] <fuzzylugnut> in a little lecture bottle.
[23:38] <Laurenceb> hmm i need to improve my machining skills to make a fusor
[23:40] <fuzzylugnut> you can do really simple ones
[23:40] <fuzzylugnut> evena bell jar.
[23:40] <Laurenceb> haha
[23:41] <fuzzylugnut> I wrote a simulation program for the motion of ions within spherical grids, but never improved it past first order approximation.
[23:42] <Laurenceb> hmm sounds interesting
[23:42] <Laurenceb> problem is that your always going to lose ions to the grid with a fusor
[23:42] <fuzzylugnut> http://24.116.155.170/scrap/cb.jpeg
[23:43] <Laurenceb> you can never have proper containlmeent unfortunately
[23:43] <fuzzylugnut> http://24.116.155.170/scrap/starmode.png
[23:43] <fuzzylugnut> yeah
[23:43] <Laurenceb> nice, whats that written in?
[23:43] <fuzzylugnut> the visualization was in C because I used openGL, the simulation was c++
[23:43] <Laurenceb> ok
[23:44] <Laurenceb> I need to learn openGL
[23:44] <fuzzylugnut> its soooooooooo fun
[23:44] <fuzzylugnut> omg.
[23:44] <Laurenceb> heh
[23:44] <fuzzylugnut> I highly recomend "OpenGl, A Primer"
[23:44] <Laurenceb> I spend too much time playing with AVRs
[23:44] <fuzzylugnut> : ) I like them too.
[23:45] <Laurenceb> its so annoying windowz cant read ext3
[23:46] <fuzzylugnut> haha, yeah.
[23:46] <Laurenceb> I may install wine and then run my xp stuff from there
[23:46] <fuzzylugnut> it'll run some
[23:46] <Laurenceb> tried avr-studio?
[23:46] <fuzzylugnut> yep
[23:46] <Laurenceb> cool
[23:47] <fuzzylugnut> I just use it for flashing the chips, havn't written any programs yet.
[23:47] <Laurenceb> having said that avr-studio isnt that useful, gedit has better syntax highlighting
[23:47] <Laurenceb> but its nice to have a proper gui
[23:47] <fuzzylugnut> yeah
[23:48] <Laurenceb> I use avrdude and an edited makefile
[23:48] <fuzzylugnut> yeah, thats a good way
[23:48] <fuzzylugnut> all I need is already out there, like i2c-io for the gumstix, and I'm adding PWM control into it.
[23:48] <Laurenceb> use avr-studio to create a makefile template, then edit it to run avrdude on compilation
[23:48] <edmoore> vi has better syntax highlighting...
[23:48] Action: edmoore goes back to what he was doing
[23:48] <Laurenceb> is that a joke?
[23:48] <Laurenceb> :P
[23:49] <fuzzylugnut> haha.... so many times in k-write have I typed ":wq" to save it : )
[23:49] <edmoore> me word documents have :wq in them
[23:49] <Laurenceb> heh
[23:49] <fuzzylugnut> : )
[23:49] <edmoore> i get sarky comments back from supervisors
[23:49] <fuzzylugnut> haha
[23:49] <edmoore> no, not a joke at all
[23:49] <edmoore> it's true
[23:49] <Laurenceb> how do you syntax highlight?
[23:50] <edmoore> does it all automatically?
[23:50] <fuzzylugnut> I pee in the snow.
[23:50] <edmoore> just have a good vimrc file
[23:50] <Laurenceb> hmm I will have to experiment
[23:50] <edmoore> vim is t'best
[23:50] <Laurenceb> oh vim
[23:50] <Laurenceb> ok
[23:52] <Laurenceb> the really strange thing is that I have XP on a FAT32 partition, and if I save work on there from linux, it either doesnt exist or I get an empty file when I look at it in XP
[23:53] <Laurenceb> if I boot back to linux, its gone
[23:54] <Laurenceb> doesnt happen all the time, only rarely, but I lost a load of work like that the other day, so I avoid my XP partition like the plague now :(
[23:55] <Laurenceb> I suspect XP overwrites the files when if comes out of hybernation
[23:56] <fuzzylugnut> could be
[23:59] <Laurenceb> brb
[23:59] Laurenceb (i=Laurence@dhcp39-033.sthughs.ox.ac.uk) left irc:
[00:00] --- Mon Mar 17 2008