highaltitude.log.20080312

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[00:44] <natrium42> Laurenceb, remember that missile tracking system?
[00:44] <Laurenceb> oh yes
[00:44] <natrium42> i got an email from them :D
[00:44] <natrium42> " Hi There,
[00:44] <natrium42> I am the seller of the Item Number: 230227126224 Contraves Cinetheodolite Missile Tracking Telescope (you made an BEST OFFER PRICE on my auction few days ago).
[00:44] <natrium42> In compliance with eBay policy ,I offer you the item thru Second Chance Offer program at your LAST BEST OFFER PRICE.
[00:44] <natrium42> The eBay policy automatically proclaims you to be the winner by default.Nevertheless, I need your agreement on this so I may contact eBay to confirm you the winning position, otherwise I'll relist the item."
[00:45] <Laurenceb> eh
[00:45] <Laurenceb> how much did you bid?
[00:46] <natrium42> $3k
[00:47] <Laurenceb> haha
[00:47] <Laurenceb> awsome
[00:47] <natrium42> :D
[00:47] <natrium42> factor of ~58
[00:47] <Laurenceb> postage could be hard
[00:48] <natrium42> i could just drive it over the border
[00:51] <natrium42> it may be fake, though
[00:51] <natrium42> just looking at some stuff
[00:52] <Laurenceb> hmm watch out
[00:52] <Laurenceb> have you paid?
[00:54] <natrium42> nah
[00:55] <natrium42> yeah, it's definitely a fake
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[01:04] <Laurenceb> really?
[01:04] <Laurenceb> how come?
[01:05] <Laurenceb> arggg stupid floating figures screwing up my alignment
[01:06] <Laurenceb> hmm I need food... brb
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[01:16] <Laurenceb> stupid machne
[01:16] <Laurenceb> my laptop keeps rebooting
[01:16] <Laurenceb> by itself
[01:16] <natrium42> weird
[01:17] <natrium42> bad driver?
[01:17] <Laurenceb> ubuntu
[01:17] <Laurenceb> its it I dont touch it for a minute or so
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[01:58] <Laurenceb> any gnuplot users?
[02:38] <Laurenceb> wow all the data processed
[02:38] <Laurenceb> the current drops like a+b*exp(c*x)
[02:38] <Laurenceb> x=time
[02:38] <Laurenceb> as aerosol is deposited
[02:39] <Laurenceb> it seems to be quite a good fit, but theres a fluctuation as its turned on, possibly humidity changing
[02:40] <Laurenceb> nn all
[02:43] <natrium42> nite
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[08:13] <mc-> hi edmoore
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[08:21] <mc-> hi edmoore
[08:21] <edmoore_> hi
[08:21] <edmoore_> just replied to your email
[08:22] <edmoore_> just getting a quick status update before I head to the apartment
[08:22] <mc-> snox is still alive
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[08:23] <edmoore_> yep, saw
[08:23] <edmoore_> though descending?
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[15:38] <jcoxon> wow
[15:38] <jcoxon> SOK is still flying
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[16:06] <jcoxon> natrium42, i wish i had a 10mhz receiver :-(
[16:07] <natrium42> does it need a big antenna?
[16:07] <jcoxon> yup
[16:07] <jcoxon> its the 30m band i think
[16:32] <jcoxon> shame we can't send one back to them
[16:33] <natrium42> you can... over the pacific :P
[16:33] <jcoxon> hehe, fly out to japan and launch from there
[16:33] <akawaka> i'll pick it up here
[16:33] <jcoxon> i reckon the US would be less happy having balloons coming towards them
[16:34] <natrium42> didn't japan try to bomb US with hot-air balloons in ww2?
[16:34] <akawaka> yeah
[16:35] <jcoxon> indeed
[16:35] <akawaka> hydrogen actually
[16:35] <akawaka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon_bomb
[16:35] <natrium42> ah
[16:36] <akawaka> you brits did it to the germans too
[16:37] <jcoxon> yeah but they were V1 and V2 ing us
[16:37] <jcoxon> :-)
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[17:03] <jcoxon> hey phatmonke
[17:04] <phatmonke> hey jcoxon
[17:04] <phatmonke> how's it going
[17:04] <phatmonke> wow
[17:04] <phatmonke> odd nick
[17:04] Nick change: phatmonke -> phatmonkey
[17:04] <jcoxon> good thanks
[17:05] <jcoxon> been following Spirit of Knoxville?
[17:05] <jcoxon> natrium42, whats the link to you google earth kml?
[17:05] <phatmonkey> jcoxon: not really, but heard about it
[17:05] <phatmonkey> what's the status?
[17:06] <jcoxon> its about 700km off Ireland
[17:06] <jcoxon> its gone 5200km
[17:07] <phatmonkey> oh cool
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[17:48] <natrium42> jcoxon, http://natrium42.com/track/track.kml
[17:49] <jcoxon> thanks
[17:49] <jcoxon> natrium42, do you think it cheeky to mention ukhas on the channel?
[17:49] <natrium42> i think it's fine
[17:50] <jcoxon> how about:
[17:50] <jcoxon> "For UK people - if you are interested in balloons etc check out www.ukhas.org.uk and wiki.ukhas.org.uk (apologies for stealing the channel)"
[17:52] <natrium42> looks good to me
[17:53] <akawaka> hah
[17:55] <jcoxon> i don't think its going to make it
[17:55] <natrium42> haha @ pilots
[17:55] <natrium42> do they want to grap the balloon with an airplane?
[17:56] <natrium42> *grab
[17:56] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:56] <jcoxon> you'd be able to find it in the sea
[17:56] <jcoxon> i guess as we know where it is
[18:08] <natrium42> akawaka, google earth can cache satellite maps
[18:08] <natrium42> just increase cache size to a few GB and fly over the areas you would like to save
[18:09] <akawaka> its limited to 2gigs i think, no?
[18:09] <natrium42> yeah, something like that
[18:09] <natrium42> although it's possible to keep different copies of cache...
[18:09] <natrium42> it's just a filw
[18:09] <natrium42> *file
[18:11] <jcoxon> not long now :(
[18:12] <natrium42> it did get pretty far, though
[18:12] <jcoxon> oh its incredible
[18:12] <natrium42> gotta leave something for the next mission ;)
[18:12] <akawaka> their in my home turf now
[18:13] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:13] <jcoxon> need to persuade them to stick a 434mhz transmitter on it
[18:13] <jcoxon> then we can track it in the uk
[18:13] <jcoxon> even if it was just a beacon
[18:14] Action: natrium42 would still rather use satellite
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[18:35] <Laurenceb> hey all
[18:35] <Laurenceb> SNOX is still in the air
[18:35] <Laurenceb> wow
[18:36] <jcoxon> yup
[18:36] <jcoxon> but sadly its descending
[18:36] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:36] <Laurenceb> looks like it might hit the water
[18:36] <Laurenceb> before it reasches land
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[18:38] <edmoore> hi Tigga
[18:38] <edmoore> RocketBoy: what's your latest fix?
[18:38] <edmoore> alt?
[18:38] <edmoore> Tigga : #snox on oasis.liveharmony.org is currently the place to be
[18:39] <Laurenceb> hey RocketBoy
[18:39] <RocketBoy> I was using the data on the website - I can hear the data OK though
[18:39] <edmoore> still alive?
[18:39] <Laurenceb> neat
[18:40] <jcoxon> i've been listening online
[18:41] <jcoxon> someone rigged their radio and broadcast
[18:41] <jcoxon> i can actually hear it now
[18:41] <Laurenceb> neat, where?
[18:41] <edmoore> so if we send something over to the guys in boston... this accolade is very much up for the taking and for much less technical effort than the sodding rockoon
[18:41] <jcoxon> haha
[18:41] <Laurenceb> he
[18:41] <jcoxon> apart from fighting against the meanest weather ever
[18:42] <Laurenceb> I think you need to stay in the stratosphere
[18:42] <edmoore> no i mean - send a payload + ZP over to the guys in boston
[18:42] <edmoore> and have them launch it
[18:42] <jcoxon> oh right
[18:42] <jcoxon> haha
[18:42] <jcoxon> i want to send a payload back
[18:42] <Laurenceb> problem is unless your in the polar vortex theres not much wind
[18:42] <jcoxon> but the winds are really against us
[18:42] <edmoore> further north might benefit us too as the JS is a bit stronger and it's a shorter distance
[18:43] <edmoore> shorter distance over the water, that is
[18:43] <jcoxon> we could spin it round the polar vortex
[18:43] <jcoxon> into canda
[18:43] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:43] <jcoxon> get natrium42 to go and get it
[18:43] <edmoore> we could fly over, release it, then fly back and see it out the window
[18:43] <Laurenceb> that was my plan :P
[18:43] <Laurenceb> stratosphere is nicer
[18:43] <edmoore> my plan is more realistic!
[18:44] <jcoxon> edmoore, and boring :-p
[18:44] <edmoore> we could even ask virgin if they'd veer of course to give a fly-by
[18:44] <jcoxon> haha
[18:44] <Laurenceb> its quite easy to make it reach say 25Km
[18:44] <Laurenceb> and stratospheric cruise is a lot easier
[18:44] <jcoxon> but you need the jetstream to get it across
[18:45] <jcoxon> cause it'll drop at night too much
[18:45] <Laurenceb> yes, thats the problem
[18:45] <Laurenceb> polar vortex could be useful
[18:45] <edmoore> that's kind of cheating
[18:45] <Laurenceb> cnes flights have used that technique
[18:45] <edmoore> go round the world in 10m
[18:46] <jcoxon> its not reall cheating as its impossible otherwise
[18:46] <jcoxon> unless we go the other way :-P
[18:46] <edmoore> seriously this could be done - they're so very close
[18:46] <edmoore> infact natrium42, where are you based?
[18:48] <edmoore> maybe someone who knows can answer for him.....
[18:48] <jcoxon> canda
[18:48] <jcoxon> canada*
[18:49] <edmoore> yes i know that
[18:49] <edmoore> but that oesn't narrow it down
[18:49] <Laurenceb> cambridge canada :P
[18:49] <edmoore> it's a big place
[18:49] <Laurenceb> or near there
[18:49] <jcoxon> http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=43.951532,-81.554507&ie=UTF8&ll=43.950563,-81.554604&spn=0.007075,0.008862&t=k&z=17&iwloc=addr&om=1
[18:49] <jcoxon> i guess
[18:49] <edmoore> already there
[18:50] <edmoore> that's ideal
[18:50] <edmoore> #highaltitude transatlantic attempt
[18:51] <Laurenceb> edmoore: jetstream?
[18:51] <jcoxon> so whats the theory
[18:51] <Laurenceb> or stratospheric?
[18:52] <Laurenceb> I prefer stratospheric, but you'd need the polar vortex
[18:57] <edmoore> jetstream i was thinking
[18:57] <edmoore> because we're a bit south
[18:57] <edmoore> well, actually lets just work it out
[18:57] <edmoore> with a bunch of crude linear approximations, which will get us there fastest, and are either/both a function of seasons?
[18:58] <jcoxon> well basically the jet stream is nearly always against us
[18:58] <jcoxon> there might be a few freak events but not enough to make it all the way
[18:59] <jcoxon> edmoore, we have our ZP balloon supply
[18:59] <RocketBoy> i'm G8KHW in utarc chat
[19:00] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: ZP balloon supply?
[19:00] <jcoxon> yup
[19:00] <jcoxon> :-D
[19:00] <Laurenceb> where from?
[19:00] <jcoxon> one of hte people on there makes them
[19:00] <jcoxon> edmoore is sorting it out :-D
[19:00] <edmoore> it's mark cav-thingamie who's popped on our radar before
[19:01] <jcoxon> yup
[19:01] <jcoxon> he makes pretty much all the zp amateur balloons
[19:01] <Laurenceb> edmoore: nice work
[19:01] <Laurenceb> heat sealed?
[19:01] <natrium42> ooh :)
[19:01] <edmoore> yep
[19:02] <edmoore> this was from just before christmas as our first attempt
[19:02] <edmoore> we're working on eqipment to automate making much bigger ones
[19:02] <Laurenceb> how did you seal it?
[19:02] <Laurenceb> greaseproof paper + soldering iron?
[19:02] <edmoore> no, made our own welding eqip
[19:03] <Laurenceb> I've used that technique for chutes
[19:03] <Laurenceb> what did you use?
[19:03] <edmoore> modified some microwave transformers to produce a high current, made some welding tools that do ~50cm at a time, with heating elements powered by the modded transformers
[19:04] <edmoore> they have integrated welding tape spools, to speed things up
[19:04] <edmoore> but the new equip will be very much faster, I hope
[19:04] <edmoore> mark just pm'd me
[19:04] <edmoore> we're in business!
[19:04] <jcoxon> cool
[19:05] <Laurenceb> I'd just have something similar to a sewing machine
[19:05] <Laurenceb> ie you pass the gores through
[19:05] <Laurenceb> use heated PTFE rotors
[19:06] <natrium42> you want to launch from north america?
[19:07] <jcoxon> we might fly it to you :-)
[19:07] <natrium42> cool :)
[19:07] <natrium42> can i put a satellite tracker onto it?
[19:08] <jcoxon> yup
[19:08] <jcoxon> of course
[19:08] <natrium42> excellent
[19:08] <jcoxon> but logistically getting a balloon to go against the prevalent jetstream might be a little difficult
[19:09] <edmoore> jcoxon, master of understatement
[19:10] <jcoxon> well :-)
[19:10] <natrium42> hehe
[19:10] <Laurenceb> bbl food
[19:12] <jcoxon> right, finished my radio beacon
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[19:13] <natrium42> satellite transmitter could be made to work for months
[19:13] <natrium42> so even if it splashes down, we could still track it (as long as it floats)
[19:14] <jcoxon> if only we could go East to West
[19:15] <RocketBoy> glide
[19:17] <edmoore> jcoxon: give up!!!!!
[19:17] <edmoore> :p
[19:18] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:22] <natrium42> jcoxon, you could make a dirigible :P
[19:23] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:23] <edmoore> yeah I was just finking that
[19:24] <edmoore> solar powered too
[19:24] <edmoore> then we can steer norf or souf
[19:24] <edmoore> steer towards england, basically
[19:24] <jcoxon> if you launched from Newfoundland it would be alot easier
[19:24] <jcoxon> but it might miss the UK
[19:25] <jcoxon> about 3000km
[19:27] <jcoxon> bbl
[19:27] <edmoore> ok cya
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[19:49] <Hiena> Good evening!
[19:49] <Laurenceb> hello
[19:49] <Laurenceb> have you seen spirit of knoxville/
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[20:01] <Laurenceb> any gimp users?
[20:02] <edmoore> noop
[20:02] <Tigga> Laurenceb: badly
[20:02] <Laurenceb> I've got two images
[20:02] <Laurenceb> taken under slightly different lighting
[20:02] <Laurenceb> how do I make them look similar?
[20:03] <Tigga> I'd fiddle with brightness and contrast
[20:03] <Laurenceb> is there a way to select a pixel in one image, then one in the second
[20:03] <Laurenceb> and have the colors corrected so they are the same
[20:03] <Laurenceb> I seem to remember a tool like that....
[20:03] <edmoore> you can try and match colour profiles
[20:03] <edmoore> i know how to do this in photoshop.... not sure how similar it is
[20:04] <edmoore> is it colour temperature and profile that's different, or things like shadows that you want to adjust?
[20:05] <Laurenceb> hmm well everything is a bit pink/warm coloured
[20:05] <Laurenceb> in one image
[20:05] Action: Tigga opens up GIMP
[20:06] <Tigga> there are all sorts of clever things you can do in the colours tab, but I don't think you can use them to automatically do things based on another image
[20:07] <mc-> is ukhas going to build a long distance balloon?
[20:08] <edmoore> we were just talking about it
[20:08] <edmoore> sending it out to natrium in cambrige ontario
[20:09] <edmoore> and piking it up in cambridge england
[20:10] <Laurenceb> hmm well iuts not too bad now... need better shots really
[20:10] <mc-> I can write pic software to generate CW and open up the ballast valve
[20:10] <mc-> what else needs to be done?
[20:11] <Hiena> If you overshot, just aim to hungary. ;)
[20:11] <Laurenceb> do you have a ham license?
[20:12] <Laurenceb> how does the CW work?
[20:12] <Laurenceb> as in encoding?
[20:12] <mc-> yes I have a license
[20:12] <mc-> CW = morse
[20:13] <Laurenceb> ah right
[20:13] <Laurenceb> hmm
[20:13] <Laurenceb> well if it works it works
[20:13] <Laurenceb> I'd prefer RTTY
[20:13] <mc-> I decoded some of the CW from snox
[20:13] <mc-> it was really clear
[20:13] <Laurenceb> cool
[20:13] <mc-> used CWget
[20:14] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/14877
[20:16] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/14878
[20:17] <Laurenceb> nice deposition on the upper section :P
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[20:18] <edmoore> jcoxon: brace yourself
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[20:18] <edmoore> bill brown is about to come here
[20:18] <edmoore> just been telling him about it
[20:18] <Laurenceb> who ;P
[20:18] <edmoore> for the rest of you, he's ballooning royalty
[20:18] <Laurenceb> coolio
[20:18] <jcoxon> aarrararararghh
[20:18] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:21] <Laurenceb> interesting how the deposition is concentrated around the edge
[20:21] <Laurenceb> must be the higher E field gradient
[20:21] <Laurenceb> I wonder if you could use this for IC fabrication?
[20:26] <mc-> good work, edmoore
[20:27] <mc-> did you get my emails?
[20:27] <edmoore> yep
[20:27] <edmoore> thank you - and for the texts!
[20:27] <edmoore> been frustrating in the dept all day
[20:27] <edmoore> knowing this was happening
[20:28] <mc-> you made it home just in time
[20:29] <mc-> let's build a balloon then, the jetstream season is over, so we have time
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[20:29] <edmoore> it'd be a nice test of things, for sure
[20:32] <mc-> do a couple of test flights in the UK, and then send it over to the US
[20:42] <natrium42> i think i will work on a satellite tracker then
[20:42] <edmoore> are you up for this then natrium42?
[20:42] <natrium42> yes, definitely
[20:42] <edmoore> awesome
[20:42] <edmoore> this could drive some activity into our wee corner of freenode
[20:42] <Laurenceb> hmm
[20:43] <Laurenceb> I need to work on my radio then
[20:43] <edmoore> they've had 120+ in there today
[20:43] <natrium42> hehe
[20:43] <edmoore> we'll have to just make a 5W 10mhz thing and sod the rules
[20:43] <edmoore> it's the atlantic, there are no rules anyway
[20:43] <Laurenceb> edmoore: we could put a continuous 434 MHz RTTY on as well
[20:44] <edmoore> yes for sure
[20:44] <edmoore> more the merrier
[20:44] <Laurenceb> its such low power it could run all the time
[20:44] <Laurenceb> I need to write the decoder software
[20:44] <edmoore> we'll need a zp
[20:44] <Laurenceb> look into teflon rollers
[20:44] <Laurenceb> for irons
[20:45] <Laurenceb> I've seen it doene like that, works well
[20:45] <edmoore> Laurenceb: way aheada ya :p
[20:45] <edmoore> we've not been sitting on our arses since we built that in dec
[20:46] <Laurenceb> if you make a tetroon its not a problem really
[20:46] <Laurenceb> so whats you technique now?
[20:46] <edmoore> yeah the tetroon is interesting
[20:46] <edmoore> it's weaker, but i guess strong enough
[20:46] <Laurenceb> saves heat sealing
[20:46] <Laurenceb> --> effectively stronger
[20:46] <edmoore> they have had dome tears in it when releasing the top before
[20:47] <edmoore> well no, there are fairly major stress concentrations
[20:47] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:48] <Laurenceb> where are you getting polythene from?
[20:48] <edmoore> B&Q dust sheet :p
[20:48] <Laurenceb> ha
[20:48] <Laurenceb> I looked into those
[20:48] <edmoore> the load tape is proper uhmwpe though, def not B&Q
[20:48] <Laurenceb> but its 10um right?
[20:48] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[20:48] <Laurenceb> hmm your going for some weight?
[20:49] <edmoore> mmm
[20:49] <Laurenceb> I was thinking a 1 Kg max
[20:50] <Laurenceb> grr I'm not sure how much time I'm going to have to work on the radio
[20:50] <edmoore> well we went for zps with much heavier and more demanding stuff in mind
[20:50] <edmoore> but it'd want more than 1kg for this transatlantic
[20:50] <edmoore> you need lots of batts to keep a 3+W tranny going
[20:50] <edmoore> and heaters
[20:50] <natrium42> need to have some ballast too, right?
[20:50] <edmoore> and pumps
[20:50] <Laurenceb> need to do construction work :(
[20:50] <edmoore> it's just a bigger thing altogether I think
[20:51] <Laurenceb> pumps ?! heaters ?!
[20:51] <edmoore> maybe not pumps
[20:51] <Laurenceb> ball bearinf + coil of wire
[20:51] <edmoore> but could well be worth looking into heaters, yeah
[20:51] <Laurenceb> electronics that runs at the temperature it will be at :p
[20:51] <edmoore> you want to drop a ball bearing on someone?
[20:51] <Laurenceb> nonon
[20:51] <Laurenceb> ball bearing valve
[20:52] <edmoore> oh i seeee :)
[20:52] <Laurenceb> look at a liquid soap thingy
[20:52] <edmoore> yep know the thing
[20:52] <Laurenceb> that idea, with a coil to lift the ball
[20:52] <Laurenceb> then ethanol
[20:52] <Laurenceb> maybe a neoprene casing
[20:52] <Laurenceb> (valve casing)
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[20:53] <edmoore> well i guess we'll cross that bridge
[20:53] <Laurenceb> but I have no free time really
[20:53] <edmoore> but they had problems with the battery voltage having a big effect on trnny power
[20:53] <Laurenceb> need to work on our house
[20:53] <edmoore> it's ok, there plenty of us
[20:53] <Laurenceb> use lithium polymer cells
[20:53] <edmoore> and the battery voltage dropped at night
[20:54] <Laurenceb> and maybe solar panels
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[20:54] <edmoore> it's a big deal, even on liths, when you pulls Ws rathert than mWs in the freezing cold
[20:54] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:54] <Laurenceb> dammmit if only the earth was flat
[20:54] <edmoore> solars would be something worth looking into. But equally i think overall capacity isn't an issue
[20:55] <Laurenceb> then you could use 434 MHz
[20:55] <Laurenceb> yes, for transatlantic lipos are fine
[20:55] <Laurenceb> I've designed something that should fly for a week or so at 25Km
[20:55] <Laurenceb> using 434 and solar
[20:56] <Laurenceb> but its a bit differnet from what you have in mind :p
[20:58] <Laurenceb> have you seen powerfilm? you can buy in on ebay sometimes
[20:58] <edmoore> nope?
[20:59] <Laurenceb> google it
[20:59] <Laurenceb> oh god I really *must* do some work - my supervisor is moaning about lack thereof
[20:59] <Laurenceb> sorry bbl
[20:59] <Laurenceb> need to stick all the latest flow data in my report for tomorrow....
[20:59] <Laurenceb> i was planning on powerfilm for the long duration design
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[21:12] <edmoore> natrium42: http://www.findmespot.com/
[21:12] <natrium42> yeah, that one uses globalstar
[21:13] <edmoore> sorry, didn't spot you in the other channel too
[21:13] <natrium42> unfortunately it seems that it doesn't report altitude
[21:13] <edmoore> is there any way we could get into the serial?
[21:14] <natrium42> perhaps, though the backend of the system is controlled by the company
[21:14] <mc-> natrium, I've ordered a globalstar module..should be here soon
[21:14] <natrium42> so we don't get access to the raw data
[21:14] <natrium42> mc-, oh, cool
[21:14] <edmoore> hi richardmccoy
[21:14] <natrium42> ORBCOMM is also worth considering
[21:14] <mc-> done a basic design, and written some code to calculate a chksum
[21:15] <edmoore> yeah it'd be good to basically just get a globalsat console
[21:15] <richardmccoy> hello... just got info from conversation with WB8ELK.....nice flight by UTARC
[21:16] <mc-> not absolutely required to have a G* module on a balloon
[21:16] <natrium42> mc-, have you seen the ORBCOMM stuff?
[21:16] <edmoore> yeah very nice - impressive stuff
[21:16] <mc-> yes, used orbcomm before, but it's a lot heavier than G*
[21:16] <edmoore> Amazed it got so far - they're set basically every record
[21:16] <natrium42> mc-, is it more or less reliable?
[21:16] <mc-> G* module is reliable
[21:17] <richardmccoy> 2 more hours of daylight might have done it....
[21:18] <natrium42> mc-, globalstar shows that a portion of the atlantic isn't covered, but it seems that that map is for voice comms
[21:19] <mc-> is it worth having a G* module on a balloon?
[21:19] <natrium42> for transatlantic, i would say so
[21:19] <mc-> when RTTY/CW worked well?
[21:20] <natrium42> it did, but used quite a few resources
[21:20] <natrium42> plus satellite would work even on water
[21:20] <mc-> I think it's best to copy what worked well for UTARC, and improve on things that weren't so good
[21:20] <natrium42> for a couple of months
[21:20] <edmoore> richardmccoy: tell me about it. watched it coming closer towards us all day!
[21:20] <edmoore> so you're into high altitude ballooning?
[21:21] <mc-> I heard some of the CW SNOX signals and they were easy to pick out.
[21:22] <mc-> lots of hams can read morse signals, and help track a balloon, and a PC isn't required
[21:23] <richardmccoy> no....I would like to be. It sort of ties in with QRP and portable operation and unusual use of Ham Radio.....call N4UN
[21:23] <edmoore> I need to get a license!
[21:23] <richardmccoy> yes ....you do !!!
[21:23] <natrium42> me too
[21:24] <natrium42> though not sure how to get a large antenna :P
[21:24] <edmoore> i felt a bit left out in snox
[21:24] <richardmccoy> pretty easy to do nowdays.... morse no longer required.... can use simple wire antennass.
[21:25] <edmoore> i'd rather be WTF61-Ed
[21:25] <edmoore> or something
[21:25] <mc-> don't need a large antenna, there's many homebrew antennas that work well
[21:25] <natrium42> mc-, so how would an antenna for 10MHz look like?
[21:25] <mc-> and loops work well for receive
[21:25] <akawaka> yeah, i think on those bands just a long dipole will do pretty well
[21:26] <mc-> a loop can be a 2m x 2m
[21:26] <mc-> and has directionality
[21:26] <mc-> and reduces nearby interference
[21:28] <mc-> natrium42, search on 30m loop antenna there's lots of designs
[21:28] <natrium42> ok, thanks
[21:28] <mc-> and for a ultra low cost receiver, search on softrock
[21:29] <mc-> about $15 each
[21:29] <natrium42> wow
[21:29] <natrium42> to listen in, you don't even need a license, correct?
[21:29] <mc-> correct
[21:30] <Laurenceb> haha
[21:30] <Laurenceb> why would you need a license to listen in?
[21:30] <edmoore> that's why we can do ballooning currently
[21:30] <edmoore> but we'll need a license to transmit up to the balloon
[21:30] <mc-> e.g. http://www.g4fon.net/MagLoop.htm has a matching transformer
[21:31] <natrium42> is this softrock? --> http://www.pa3ang.nl/index.php?page=sdrinfo
[21:31] <natrium42> it's hard to google
[21:32] <mc-> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/softrock40/
[21:32] <natrium42> nice
[21:35] <natrium42> looks very simple to set up
[21:38] <natrium42> mc-, what do you think about two way satellite data?
[21:38] <natrium42> or are pictures of the ocean not very exciting?
[21:40] <edmoore> no, but telling the thing to cut down *IS* exciting
[21:41] <mc-> I think it would be difficult to do, but radio comms to the balloon would be good, (as ed said)
[21:41] <edmoore> or just go for broke and dump all ballast, say
[21:41] <edmoore> or whatever
[21:42] <natrium42> right
[21:42] <mc-> a softrock + signal processor on the balloon might work
[21:44] <edmoore> but can we not com through globalsat?
[21:44] <edmoore> just console stylee?
[21:44] <Laurenceb> that would be cool :p
[21:44] <natrium42> edmoore, yeah, it's actually not that expensive
[21:45] <edmoore> it would be amazing if we could
[21:45] <natrium42> phone goes for <$150
[21:46] <edmoore> go for it
[21:46] <natrium42> and $150 for 500 minutes of data/voice
[21:46] <edmoore> this would be a GREAT way of doing transatlantic coms
[21:46] <natrium42> plus 2000 15 second data burst sessions are inculded
[21:46] <natrium42> i'd say that's very cheap
[21:47] <edmoore> that's as many as we'd need surely
[21:47] <edmoore> 3 days = 72 hours
[21:47] <edmoore> one every 0.036 hours
[21:48] <edmoore> every 2 minutes
[21:48] <mc-> Is the phone is <$150, or does it need a 2 year contract?
[21:48] <natrium42> a used phone is <$150
[21:48] <Laurenceb> really?
[21:48] <natrium42> no contract is required, it's a monthly plan
[21:48] <Laurenceb> where from/
[21:48] <natrium42> ebay
[21:48] <natrium42> :)
[21:48] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:48] <Laurenceb> when I look its like $500
[21:49] <natrium42> i looked at completed auctions
[21:49] <Laurenceb> global sat?
[21:49] <natrium42> and found quite a few where end price was <$150
[21:49] <Laurenceb> ok, I will try bidding
[21:49] <natrium42> globalstar
[21:50] <Laurenceb> sure, my typo
[21:50] <natrium42> data plans --> http://www.globalstar.ca/en/content.php?cid=202
[21:50] <natrium42> err, data/voice plans rather
[21:50] <natrium42> could dial into a computer modem
[21:50] <natrium42> and skip the whole ISP stuff
[21:51] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:51] <natrium42> mc-, what do you think?
[21:52] <natrium42> pictures would be a big bonus for presentation :P
[21:53] <edmoore> lol
[21:54] <edmoore> we want to get this thing back
[21:54] <edmoore> maybe we should give it wings
[21:54] <natrium42> use red bull as the ballast liquid?
[21:54] <Laurenceb> haha
[21:54] <Laurenceb> industrial ethanol
[21:55] <mc-> how about saving the satcoms until we crossed the atlantic?
[21:55] <mc-> it would take several attempts to get it right
[21:55] <Laurenceb> mc- can you build a 10MHz tx?
[21:55] <akawaka> satcoms seems like overkill
[21:55] <mc-> yes
[21:55] <akawaka> snox success is based on simplicity it seems
[21:55] <Laurenceb> actually it cant be too hard at that frequency
[21:55] <mc-> just need a crystal and a transistor amp
[21:55] <natrium42> i don't mind working on the sat system :P
[21:55] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:55] <edmoore> is satcoms necessarily more complicated than building your own tx?
[21:55] <Laurenceb> hmm
[21:56] <edmoore> it's easier
[21:56] <natrium42> radio is a whole new world :S
[21:56] <Laurenceb> how could you do fm at 10mhz?
[21:56] <edmoore> at least, i know which project I'd rather undertake
[21:56] <akawaka> mc-: is it really that simple?
[21:56] <mc-> yes, there's lots of designs on the net
[21:56] <Laurenceb> I want to do 300 baud RTTY at 10mhz :P
[21:56] <mc-> fm can be done by adjusting the crystal cap
[21:56] <Laurenceb> maybe a bit slower baud
[21:57] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[21:57] <Laurenceb> cool
[21:57] <mc-> just a analog switch controlled by a processor
[21:57] <natrium42> mc-, i will build a ground radio receiver if you can provide the transmitter
[21:57] <akawaka> not sure fm is allowed on that band
[21:57] <Laurenceb> how much drift can you get?
[21:57] <mc-> a crystal will drift over temp
[21:58] <edmoore> it's the atlantic ocean
[21:58] <edmoore> no one can do you for it
[21:58] <mc-> but if it's well insulated then it will drift slowly
[21:58] <edmoore> i would say a crystal isn't the way to go for this
[21:58] <Laurenceb> it will only be a few hundered hertz
[21:58] <edmoore> DDS
[21:58] <mc-> drift doesn't matter as long as its slow
[21:59] <Laurenceb> yes, I'd go with crystal
[21:59] <akawaka> edmoore: its the principal of the thing more than anything
[21:59] <Laurenceb> DDS is basically crystal derived
[21:59] <mc-> have a look at SI570, uses less power than a DDS
[21:59] <Laurenceb> whats that/
[22:00] <mc-> SI570 is a new chip that generates frequencies to 1Hz resolution
[22:00] <edmoore> sounds good
[22:01] <edmoore> utarc said earlier yesterday that the next one would be dds/similar rather than crystal because it gave them issues
[22:01] <mc-> the softrock group are talking about them
[22:02] <mc-> I've got 2 DDS boards working here
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[22:03] <mc-> and some SI570s as well, but have to solder them up
[22:05] <Laurenceb> where from?
[22:05] <Laurenceb> so how do you set the frequency?
[22:06] <mc-> I2C
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[22:08] <mc-> think it's easier to start with crystals though, doesn't matter if they are lost
[22:09] <Laurenceb> yes, I dont see the porblem with crystals
[22:09] <Laurenceb> DDS is basically a crystal with a bit of extra treatment
[22:11] <Laurenceb> I'll look up some designs
[22:15] <Laurenceb> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/3938/uexosc.htm
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[22:48] <jcoxon> evening RocketBoy
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[23:00] <Laurenceb> hey Rockey
[23:00] <Laurenceb> RocketBoy*
[23:00] <Laurenceb> I'm going to test my radio again 2 morrow
[23:01] <Laurenceb> finally, the firnwares been changed a bit to avoid delays due to interrupts
[23:04] <Laurenceb> I'm looking at 10mhz designs
[23:05] <RocketBoy> thinking of launching outside the K?
[23:05] <RocketBoy> UK
[23:05] <Laurenceb> I'm inspired by sonx
[23:06] <Laurenceb> trying to get my head around tx design
[23:06] <RocketBoy> yeah HF (30MHz and below) is great for distance and low power if you get the right band
[23:06] <Laurenceb> btw: http://imagebin.org/14878
[23:07] <Laurenceb> 6 thats from my flow test yesterday, very good deposition
[23:08] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking you could use it for IC fabrication, use the ionsation current to control the thickness, then sinter it on
[23:10] <RocketBoy> say jcoxon - did you ever get your gumstix working again?
[23:14] <Laurenceb> how do I make an efficient 10mhz amplifier?
[23:14] <edmoore> i thought you didn't have enough time Laurenceb
[23:14] <Laurenceb> as in a watt or less
[23:14] <Laurenceb> hehe i should get back to work :P
[23:16] <RocketBoy> depends on what yout want to transmit - ssb / am/ FM/PM
[23:16] <RocketBoy> it will take some time and it won't be leagal to fly in the UK
[23:17] <Laurenceb> hmm
[23:17] <Laurenceb> what do you think would be good for data? would phase modulation be worth a try?
[23:18] <Laurenceb> do you think it would be possible to do something a bit unconvensional, e.g. an op amp based amplifier stage?
[23:18] <RocketBoy> there are all sorts of modes for data - BPSK is simple and a good starting point
[23:18] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:19] <Laurenceb> so directly phase shift the RF then use SSB for recieving?
[23:19] <RocketBoy> a direct PSK reciver would be just as goo with the right software filtering
[23:20] <RocketBoy> good
[23:20] <Laurenceb> as in audio frequency am modulation?
[23:21] <Laurenceb> as opposed to phase modulation of the rf?
[23:21] <RocketBoy> ?? - as in take in the RF and de-modulate the PSK
[23:22] <Laurenceb> sure nvm
[23:22] <RocketBoy> no AM
[23:22] <Laurenceb> we were at cross purposes I think
[23:22] <Laurenceb> cool
[23:22] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/1468929/semiconductors/product.us0?sku=NATIONAL-SEMICONDUCTOR-LM6172IN-NOPB
[23:22] <Laurenceb> ^ could you use opamps like that in rf applications?
[23:24] <RocketBoy> Yes - but In my oppinion you need to be very careful about spurious signals (e.g. harmonics) as the range is huge from a balloon
[23:24] <RocketBoy> so you need good filtering of the output
[23:24] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, sadly not, the gumstix remains dead, and i made it worse in my attempts to fix it :(
[23:24] <Laurenceb> I was thinking use one of those as the basis of an amplifier
[23:24] <akawaka> jcoxon: what happened to it?
[23:24] <RocketBoy> :(
[23:25] <jcoxon> my new GM862 module arrived today
[23:25] <jcoxon> akawaka, i blew the regulator
[23:25] <RocketBoy> :)
[23:25] <jcoxon> and i finished my radio beacon
[23:25] <jcoxon> so
[23:25] <jcoxon> fhalp-3 is actually coming along well
[23:25] <jcoxon> and should actually work!
[23:25] <Laurenceb> an op amp controlled call B amp
[23:26] <Laurenceb> class*
[23:26] <RocketBoy> - it was just that I may have some work lined up based on programming a gumstix - and I was looking for one to borrow while I ordered one up
[23:26] <jcoxon> oh right
[23:26] <jcoxon> sorry
[23:26] <RocketBoy> np
[23:26] <jcoxon> i've got lots of daughterboards in various states
[23:27] <Laurenceb> together with a logic gate and crystal based oscillator was my idea
[23:27] <jcoxon> fun fun doing a bit of linux programming
[23:27] <jcoxon> have you ordered one yet?
[23:27] <Laurenceb> the logic gets allow easy phase keying
[23:27] <Laurenceb> gets=gates*
[23:28] <edmoore> don't you want to shape the transitions?
[23:28] <Laurenceb> you would need some filtering and impedance matching
[23:28] <edmoore> otherwise you'll upset the entire planet on every frequency
[23:28] <RocketBoy> laurenceb - making a transmitter is easy - the hard part is making a good transmitter
[23:28] <Laurenceb> edmoore: havent worked that bit out yet :P
[23:28] <edmoore> see above
[23:29] <Laurenceb> edmoore: you'd need a good filter between the signal gen and the amp
[23:29] <Laurenceb> to give sinusoidal output
[23:29] <edmoore> thank you for telling me
[23:29] <Laurenceb> :P
[23:29] <edmoore> sorry, getting stressed by software
[23:29] <edmoore> not personal :p
[23:30] <RocketBoy> and the amp needs to be linear - and there needs to be no other spuri going in
[23:30] <Laurenceb> well it makes more sense to me than half the designs on the net
[23:30] <Laurenceb> that use transistors
[23:30] <Laurenceb> might as well be greek :P
[23:30] <RocketBoy> and good matching of the output and antenna impedances
[23:30] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:30] <RocketBoy> .....
[23:31] <Laurenceb> amp linearity was why i considered putting an opamp in there
[23:32] <RocketBoy> well it would probably be OK with the right filtering and matching
[23:32] <Laurenceb> I guess with these things nothing beats making it and finding out
[23:33] <RocketBoy> yep - get and ham licence and make one
[23:35] <RocketBoy> so where is a good place to get a gunstix in a hurry
[23:35] <RocketBoy> ?
[23:35] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, oh direct
[23:35] <jcoxon> they'll send it asap, they don't have resellers
[23:35] <RocketBoy> any idea how long?
[23:36] <jcoxon> guess it could be 48hrs
[23:36] <RocketBoy> wow - thats good
[23:36] <jcoxon> they'll DHL it
[23:36] <jcoxon> but it'll cost :-)
[23:36] <RocketBoy> :-(
[23:37] <RocketBoy> what do I need for a development system - linux or windozzz
[23:37] <jcoxon> ummm linux is best
[23:37] <jcoxon> then you use OE
[23:37] <jcoxon> its all self-contained
[23:37] <jcoxon> easy
[23:38] <RocketBoy> ubuntu do?
[23:38] <jcoxon> yup
[23:39] Action: Laurenceb is annoyed by ubuntu
[23:39] <Laurenceb> keeps rebooting
[23:39] <RocketBoy> ubuntu is annoyed by laurenceb
[23:39] <Laurenceb> maybe
[23:40] <Laurenceb> perhaps it hates me
[23:40] <jcoxon> linux keeps rebooting? thats unusal
[23:40] <Laurenceb> yes, it seems to be the screensaver
[23:40] <Laurenceb> that causes it
[23:41] <natrium42> aah, so maybe opengl is causing it?
[23:41] <Laurenceb> perhaps, most of the time the screensaver works ok
[23:41] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, http://www.gumstix.net/Software/111.html
[23:42] Action: Laurenceb is extremely bored
[23:42] <edmoore> i might try debain on a box after slackware. looks nice. people who know: good idea?
[23:42] <jcoxon> ummmmm
[23:42] <jcoxon> you might as well use ubuntu
[23:43] <RocketBoy> hey ho - I'm off - tnx for the gumstix advice I'll see about ordering one tomorrow.
[23:43] <jcoxon> no problem
[23:44] <jcoxon> i haven't used the newest versions
[23:44] kb9zwl (n=kb9zwl@97.90.233.149) joined #highaltitude.
[23:44] <jcoxon> though they look very nice
[23:45] MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@4d6f5419.adsl.enternet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[23:45] <jcoxon> hi kb9zwl
[23:46] <kb9zwl> hi new to this irc stuff
[23:46] <jcoxon> been following spirit?
[23:46] <kb9zwl> yes
[23:46] <jcoxon> so close
[23:46] <jcoxon> we were already to go and find it :-)
[23:46] <kb9zwl> yep
[23:46] <edmoore> I filled up my car in anticipation
[23:47] <edmoore> I'd have been straight there!
[23:47] <kb9zwl> one can only hope
[23:49] <jcoxon> it was quite a feat
[23:49] <jcoxon> i guess teh furthest we've got was the one that was recovered in Denmark
[23:50] <jcoxon> and that probably floated there
[23:53] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:53] <RocketBoy> does anyone know the data format used by the utarc software (rtty I know) - speed/shift/code set?
[23:55] <RocketBoy> I guess not - night all
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[23:56] <kb9zwl> night all
[23:57] kb9zwl (n=kb9zwl@97.90.233.149) left irc: "Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)"
[00:00] --- Thu Mar 13 2008