highaltitude.log.20080215

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[08:57] <jcoxon> hey defy
[08:57] <jcoxon> long time no see
[09:17] <defy> heya :)
[09:17] <defy> hows it going?
[09:17] <jcoxon> how are things?
[09:18] <jcoxon> yeah not bad thanks
[09:18] <jcoxon> though lost a payload on the weekend
[09:19] <defy> oh that sucks :( I have been neglecting a lot of my projects, too much training lately, but thinking about breaking the uav out of storage soon and maybe tying it to a balloon finally
[09:19] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:19] <jcoxon> its about time hehe
[09:19] <defy> haha yeah
[09:20] <jcoxon> I'm being good - haven't started work on a new payload yet
[09:20] <jcoxon> been tempted to order new stuff but am resisting
[09:20] <jcoxon> instead doing research into my options
[09:21] <defy> yea after loosing a payload I bet you're wanting to keep it cheap
[09:21] <defy> had any successes lately?
[09:21] <jcoxon> not really
[09:21] <defy> true =/
[09:21] <jcoxon> this one was nearly a success, radio and visual contact to 23km alt
[09:21] <defy> I've started training for my commercial helicopters pilots license, and I moved house, so everything went into storage
[09:21] <jcoxon> then it disappeared
[09:21] <jcoxon> oh wow
[09:21] <jcoxon> cool
[09:22] <defy> yea I'm loving it
[09:22] <jcoxon> defy, its summer with you right now - your prime launching time
[09:23] <jcoxon> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SDIO-GPS-Receiver_W0QQitemZ280199264559QQihZ018QQcategoryZ156955QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[09:23] <defy> yup
[09:23] <defy> we've got some bad weather coming so I wont be flying this week, so I might get the plane ready for a drop and see what else needs to be done
[09:23] <jcoxon> http://franciscoalecrim.blogspot.com/2007/12/sd-gps-omap-1710-sdio-gps.html
[09:24] <jcoxon> sweet, they work on linux
[09:24] <defy> a friend of mine was quite keen on helping me create a gui frontend for all the trims and sensors
[09:24] <defy> I'll keep you guys posted if we proceed
[09:24] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:24] <jcoxon> that would be good
[09:25] <jcoxon> what i really want is a system that works
[09:25] <jcoxon> and i've got 2 ways just need to decide which to use (pegasus of firefly)
[09:26] <defy> not using gumstix any more?
[09:26] <jcoxon> well i went with the telit gm862 gsm/gps module recently
[09:26] <jcoxon> but the gps doesn't work above 24km
[09:26] <jcoxon> and its actually about the same price as a gumstix
[09:28] <jcoxon> so i'm a bit tempted to go back to gumstix
[09:29] <jcoxon> which slightly goes against my opinion on constantly changing your system
[09:29] <jcoxon> (as in you should try to be consistant)
[09:30] <defy> haha yea, but at least its a system you have experience with
[09:30] <jcoxon> true
[09:31] <jcoxon> for $99 i could pretty much rebuild pegI
[09:34] <jcoxon> or with what i've got here (e.g. no money) I could build an arduino based payload
[09:35] <jcoxon> decisions decisions
[09:36] <defy> hehe
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[10:00] <Simon-MPFH> jcoxon - I thought you could firmware upgrade the GM862 to cope?
[10:00] <jcoxon> hey Simon-MPFH
[10:00] Daviey (n=dave@ubuntu/member/daviey) got netsplit.
[10:01] <jcoxon> with the 24km limit?
[10:01] <Simon-MPFH> Howdy
[10:01] <jcoxon> no
[10:01] <Simon-MPFH> Ah, must have misread
[10:01] <jcoxon> natrium42 tried but it didn't work
[10:01] <Simon-MPFH> Ah
[10:01] <Simon-MPFH> Where abouts are you? Cambridge?
[10:01] <jcoxon> London these days
[10:01] <jcoxon> used to be at Cambridge
[10:01] <Simon-MPFH> Ah
[10:02] <jcoxon> hows the NMEA going?
[10:03] <Simon-MPFH> Getting in the way of paying work!
[10:03] <jcoxon> haha
[10:03] <Simon-MPFH> Just trying to work out how simple my maths can be
[10:04] <Simon-MPFH> I am using Arduino ATM
[10:04] <jcoxon> shouldn't be too difficult
[10:04] <jcoxon> so have you linked the gps up to the ardunio then?
[10:04] <Simon-MPFH> I am setting it up so I can fly with my Futaba then switch the 'autonavigation' in for testing'
[10:04] <Simon-MPFH> GPS -> Arduino is the next thing
[10:04] <Simon-MPFH> my eTrex probably does full RS232 voltage?
[10:05] <Simon-MPFH> I wish Sparkfun were in Stoke-on-Trent - I could buy a TTL GPS for £330
[10:05] <Simon-MPFH> £30
[10:05] <jcoxon> how are you getting te data right now?
[10:05] <Simon-MPFH> Hyperterminal
[10:05] <jcoxon> anything inbetween the gps and the pc (e.g. voltage shifting?)
[10:05] <Simon-MPFH> It's all a voyage of discovery
[10:06] <Simon-MPFH> Nothing - GPS RS232 -> Com 4 (USB to Serial)
[10:06] <Simon-MPFH> I have a Max232 somewhere...
[10:06] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:06] <Simon-MPFH> The Arduino might cope with RAW RS232?
[10:06] <jcoxon> that i'm not sure
[10:07] <jcoxon> the Arduino is a 5v job
[10:07] <Simon-MPFH> Anyone in the UK sell a TTL GPS?
[10:07] <jcoxon> so depends on how rs232 the output is
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[10:07] <Simon-MPFH> I've got the Radiometrix TDi2 for downlink
[10:08] <Simon-MPFH> Physical volume "/dev/md2" successfully created - Wheeee LVM goodness
[10:08] <jcoxon> Simon-MPFH, yeah there are a few places
[10:09] <jcoxon> http://robosavvy.com/store/ to some of the sparkfun stock
[10:09] <Simon-MPFH> Which model is the best?
[10:09] <jcoxon> well
[10:09] <jcoxon> depends
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[10:09] <jcoxon> are you going to do 24km+ high alt stuff?
[10:10] <Simon-MPFH> Not for a while
[10:10] <jcoxon> SIRF III are very good
[10:10] <jcoxon> as long as you are below 24km
[10:11] <Simon-MPFH> Ah - YES! That's the one mentioned in the Arduino GPS tutorial
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[10:14] <jcoxon> here is a good guide as well
[10:14] <jcoxon> http://itp.nyu.edu/~bp432/blug/archives/sensors/
[10:14] <Simon-MPFH> What connector is that on the EM-406A?
[10:15] <jcoxon> it has its own connector
[10:15] <jcoxon> some sort of molex its quite tiny
[10:15] <jcoxon> but you can easily get one, cut the wires and solder onto them
[10:15] <Simon-MPFH> Ugh - cut it off and solder pins to connect to the arduino?
[10:15] <Simon-MPFH> HA
[10:16] <jcoxon> it comes as a a connector <--> connector
[10:16] <jcoxon> so you get 2 connectors!
[10:16] <Simon-MPFH> sneaky
[10:16] <jcoxon> then you can easily plug it in
[10:16] <jcoxon> and off you go
[10:16] <jcoxon> for stuff below 24km i really recommend it
[10:16] <jcoxon> it gets an lock very quickly
[10:17] <Simon-MPFH> and it's TTL
[10:17] <Simon-MPFH> :-)
[10:17] <jcoxon> if you want sirf II then they are a little harder
[10:18] <Simon-MPFH> What's the difference?
[10:18] <jcoxon> sirf II is the older version
[10:18] <jcoxon> but works better at altitude
[10:18] <jcoxon> i tihnk
[10:18] <jcoxon> think*
[10:19] <jcoxon> i'm doing a little experiment - may have found a very cheap source of ttl sirf II gps units
[10:19] <Simon-MPFH> Nice
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[10:25] <jcoxon> morning mc-
[10:38] <mc-> morning jc
[10:44] <mc-> jcoxon, I got my robot bits
[10:45] <jcoxon> oh cool
[10:46] <mc-> Got a wheel going round, it's going to go fairly fast..
[10:47] <mc-> I was reading the logs, I've got some cheap GSM modems
[10:47] <mc-> if you want one
[10:48] <jcoxon> mc-, interesting
[10:48] <jcoxon> what type are they?
[10:49] <mc-> I'll send a datasheet to you
[10:49] <mc-> to your gmail address?
[10:49] <jcoxon> yeah that would be great
[10:49] <jcoxon> i'm taking a little break from actual construction
[10:49] <jcoxon> but i'm allowed to research :-p
[10:50] <mc-> I've got a PCB done with space for the GSM+SIM card + GPS
[10:50] <jcoxon> oh right
[10:51] <mc-> btw I invited to gmail chat
[10:51] <jcoxon> okay
[10:52] <jcoxon> ]sorry mc- but i've got to dash for a bit
[10:52] <jcoxon> will chat later
[10:52] <mc-> ok
[11:01] <Simon-MPFH> Question: I do my programming indoors (especially in Winter) but my GPS won't lock on - even by the window the signal is weak. How do folks get around this?
[11:28] <mc-> can you put the antenna out of the window?
[11:28] <mc-> often I put it out of the window for a few mins, then bring it in.
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[11:52] <mc-> jcoxon, not sure if I sent to the right email address, does it have an 'a' in it?
[12:47] <Simon-MPFH> Brrrr, sure is cold with the window open. I think I will capture some NEMA then play it back in a look from another server.
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[15:55] <jcoxon> i have returned!
[15:55] <jcoxon> not that anyone cares :-d
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[17:26] <Simon-MPFH> I care
[17:31] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:34] <natrium42> the return of the j...coxon
[17:36] <jcoxon> hehe
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[17:50] <Hiena> Good evening!
[17:50] <natrium42> hi
[17:51] <Hiena> How are you?
[17:52] <natrium42> good, and you?
[18:04] <Hiena> Tired. And i can feel the coming cold front.
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[20:24] <Laurenceb> hello folks
[20:25] <Laurenceb> I've been working on the aerosol project, the enclosure is finished, and the electronics and plumbing installed :D
[20:26] <Laurenceb> no photos I'm afraid, but there should be some on monday
[20:27] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: any calls?
[20:32] <natrium42> i am sure there will be if we keep asking every day :D
[20:36] <Laurenceb> hehe
[20:36] <Laurenceb> I've been doing a bit of work on a new radio system
[20:36] <Laurenceb> RTTY is prone to bit slip errors
[20:37] <Laurenceb> so I've been designing a spread spectrum style transmitter
[20:38] <Laurenceb> it would also allow multiple transmitters to be used at one time on the same frequency
[20:39] <Laurenceb> the only extra hardware needed is a usb DAC, using an avr. The tx will just be the same as my aerosol project one, but with new firmware
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[21:18] <Laurenceb> hello jatkins
[21:19] <Laurenceb> how is your payload coming on?
[21:21] <jatkins> ok thanks
[21:21] <jatkins> I got the camera shutter fixed a week or so ago, not sure if I told you
[21:21] <jatkins> I've been working on the GPS today
[21:21] <jatkins> with not much luck :(
[21:23] <jatkins> I'm using hyperterminal on windows xp, and I've the got the GPS connected via an RS-232 to USB cable
[21:23] <Laurenceb> is it sending serial?
[21:23] <jatkins> doesn't seem to be
[21:23] <Laurenceb> 4800 baud?
[21:23] <jatkins> I've only tried it on 9600, I'll try 4800
[21:24] <jatkins> mc- sent me the GPSs
[21:24] <Laurenceb> did he say 9600?
[21:25] <jatkins> yep
[21:25] <jatkins> also said 4800 though
[21:25] <Laurenceb> try 4800
[21:26] <jatkins> but I've just tested it and still doesn't work
[21:26] <Laurenceb> nothing?
[21:26] <Hiena> jatkins, use 4800. it's a default speed.
[21:26] <jatkins> ok
[21:26] <jatkins> nope
[21:26] <Hiena> Also turn of the hardware flow control.
[21:26] <Laurenceb> good point
[21:26] <jatkins> how do I do that?
[21:26] Action: Laurenceb is running linux
[21:26] <Hiena> 8 bit 1 start, 1 stop, no paritry.
[21:27] <Laurenceb> sorry cant remember...
[21:27] <jatkins> np
[21:27] <Hiena> jatkins, on the connection properties.
[21:27] <jatkins> yep
[21:27] <jatkins> I'll try that
[21:27] <Hiena> Right under the connection speed.
[21:28] <jatkins> yep
[21:28] <jatkins> how long does it usually take before it will start sending out signals?
[21:28] <Hiena> 10-30 sec on the cold start.
[21:29] <jatkins> ok
[21:29] <Laurenceb> it should still be sending stuff
[21:29] <Laurenceb> with blank strings
[21:29] <Hiena> yup-
[21:29] <jatkins> still nothing
[21:29] <Laurenceb> can you describe the setup?
[21:30] <Laurenceb> you have a power supply?
[21:30] <jatkins> not on the GPS
[21:30] <jatkins> (now)
[21:30] <jatkins> mc- sent one
[21:30] <Hiena> What are you using as serial interface?
[21:30] <jatkins> will it not take power from the USB?
[21:30] <jatkins> a USB to rs-232 converter cable (my laptop doesn't have a serial port)
[21:31] <Laurenceb> how are you interfacing the gps to the rs232?
[21:31] <Hiena> Ok. And what is between the converter and the GPS?
[21:31] <jatkins> mc- had soldered on a female serial port mount
[21:31] <jatkins> Hiena: I'll get a link
[21:32] <jatkins> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160206944539&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=006
[21:34] <Hiena> Ouch... The RS-232 has higher level than the TTL logic. You have to use someking of interface IC between the GPS and the serial cable.
[21:34] <Hiena> -g+d
[21:34] <jatkins> oh
[21:34] <Laurenceb> but mc- had soldered on a connector?
[21:35] <Laurenceb> did he say it was ok?
[21:35] <jatkins> I'm not sure
[21:35] <jatkins> I'll ask him, he's on google talk
[21:38] <Laurenceb> stupid farnell :( all I want is a 6 AA holder
[21:38] <Hiena> What kind of board you use?
[21:38] <jatkins> not sure its model, I'll have to ask mc-
[21:38] <Hiena> Laurenceb, yup. Stupid Farnell, that what i says everyday...
[21:39] <jatkins> seems to be a sirf
[21:39] <jatkins> 'lxha gps receiver'
[21:39] <Hiena> jatkins, do you have a datasheet? Or a link for a datasheet?
[21:40] <jatkins> no
[21:40] <jatkins> I'll google for one
[21:42] <jatkins> can't find one, mc-'s idle on chat now, I'll ask him tomorrow
[21:42] <Hiena> Be carefull, you could kill the receiver with a wrong connection.
[21:43] <jatkins> oh
[21:43] Action: Laurenceb heads off to maplins in search of battery holder supplies
[21:43] <jatkins> I'll leave it for now and ask mc- for more help tomorrow
[21:43] Nick change: MetaMorfoziS -> MeTa[AwAy]
[21:43] <jatkins> thanks for your help though
[21:44] <Laurenceb> jatkins: first rule of electronics - be careful, check your work, if you dont know ask someone for help before turning it on
[21:45] <jatkins> ok
[21:45] <Hiena> And avoid the smoke. The ICs works with smoke, if the smoke comes out of the ICs, they will stop working. ;)
[21:45] <jatkins> willdo :)
[21:46] <jatkins> I'm off now. thanks both of you :)
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[21:48] <Laurenceb> http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ITAG=SPEC&ModuleNo=31427&doy=15m2#spec
[21:48] <Laurenceb> grrr pp3 connectors
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[21:58] <Laurenceb> why cant someone just sell me a 6xAA holder with wire leads ?! :(
[21:59] <Laurenceb> hardy a big request
[22:09] <Hiena> Laurenceb, may i check my surplus stock at the company?
[22:09] <Laurenceb> I dont understand?
[22:10] <Laurenceb> it would be possible to use a 4x AA and 2x AA from here I guess http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?tier1=Electrical+%26+Power&tier2=Batteries&tier3=Boxes+%26+Holders&tier4=AA+Battery+holders&moduleno=71696
[22:11] <Hiena> I have a plenty of electronic junk, Maybe i have a 6 AA type holder.
[22:11] <Laurenceb> ok
[22:11] <Laurenceb> cool
[22:12] <Laurenceb> thanx for the offer
[22:12] <Laurenceb> we need 6x AA to run the NGW100
[22:13] <Laurenceb> then we'll have some 2000mah lipo cells to run the "nasty stuff"
[22:14] <Laurenceb> ie the HV supplies and pump
[22:16] <Laurenceb> we thought of an annoying problem today - when the plunger seals the sampling chamber, the lower air pressure inside will cause air to flow back through the pump, carrying graphite off the rotor
[22:17] <Laurenceb> (its a graphite wankle rotor)
[22:17] <Laurenceb> we've added a conventional filter inbetween, hopefully it will stop the contamination
[22:19] <Laurenceb> theres another filter on the outlet from the pump, and a trailing pipe from the bottom of the payload for the exhaust, to avoid contaminating the samples
[22:21] <Hiena> Well, i have no 6AA at this moment. I checked the store they have on stock it's 75 HUF.
[22:21] <Laurenceb> not bad
[22:21] <Laurenceb> but its ok, we can use rapid and get a 4AA and 2AA
[22:22] <Laurenceb> its an experiement, doesnt have to look pretty :P
[22:22] <natrium42> do it really ghetto-style!
[22:22] <natrium42> :P
[22:23] <Laurenceb> its pretty ghetto already :D
[22:23] <Hiena> Yup. That what is the NASA's guys said, and nobody suprised on the Sheperd's pray.
[22:23] <Laurenceb> I was looking at some of the space rated hardware in the lab, some of the cables are fixed together with string
[22:23] <Laurenceb> but its space rated string, so thats ok :P
[22:25] <Laurenceb> the exomars sensor boom is progressing :D unfortunately that means I cant get the targets done, as the CNC mill is too busy
[22:26] <Laurenceb> the wind sensors are complete, so they are going to test it in the Martian environmental test chamber on monday
[22:27] <Laurenceb> all the electronics is still in breadboard, it needs a bit of fine tuning. I suggested the AD8574 opamp, so they might try it now :D
[22:28] <Laurenceb> its crazy that an important part of such an expensive project is being designed by two phd students with so little experience
[22:30] <Laurenceb> bbl
[22:31] <natrium42> as long as the landing system is better this time :D
[22:33] <Hiena> Ehem...
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[22:46] <mc-> hey Laurenceb, I've got a 6AA battery box
[22:46] <mc-> It's a bit tricky to post
[22:47] <mc-> jcoxon, does your email address have an 'a' in it?
[22:47] <mc-> did you get my mail?
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[23:04] <jcoxon> mc-, i got your mail
[23:09] <mc-> ok, thanks
[23:10] <mc-> I ordered a 50MHz band transceiver today, to build an uplink to a balloon
[23:10] <mc-> and have some low cost 50MHz receivers for the payload
[23:11] <mc-> gotta go now
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 16 2008