highaltitude.log.20080209

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[00:02] <jcoxon> natrium42, just looking at your halo pictures
[00:02] <jcoxon> i think they are some of the best i've seen
[00:02] <natrium42> thanks :)
[00:02] <natrium42> canon optics ftw
[00:02] <jcoxon> very nice
[00:02] <jcoxon> i've got a nice olympus camera to go up on the flight after this
[00:02] <jcoxon> once i get the sim card detected
[00:03] <natrium42> any progress on that?
[00:03] <jcoxon> not really
[00:03] <jcoxon> just about to try another network simcard
[00:03] <jcoxon> i've also checked the sim card detector pin, it makes a connection when the sim card is inserted
[00:06] <Laurenceb> sounds like an annoying problem :(
[00:06] <jcoxon> yup
[00:06] <jcoxon> very annoying
[00:06] <natrium42> jcoxon, i wonder whether up/down-grading the firmware would help
[00:06] <jcoxon> still got some time
[00:07] <Laurenceb> theres no damage to the connector?
[00:07] <jcoxon> the connectors look perfect
[00:07] <jcoxon> natrium42, yeah i was thinking that
[00:09] <jcoxon> thats certainly a difference between this module and my original module (which did work with this simcard
[00:11] <natrium42> i hope i didn't break anything when soldering/desoldering serial port A wires
[00:12] <jcoxon> doubt it, where are the serial port A wires?
[00:12] <natrium42> those two blobs
[00:13] <natrium42> they used to be smt pads
[00:13] <jcoxon> they look fine
[00:13] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/gallery2/v/balloon/setup/gm862-gps.jpg.html
[00:14] <natrium42> i also soldered to the points indicated by the arrows
[00:15] <jcoxon> wow you are good at soldering
[00:16] <natrium42> and very liberal with flux as you might see...
[00:17] <natrium42> i didn't think of testing with a sim card before sending it to you
[00:17] <natrium42> because i only touched the parts around GPS chip
[00:17] <natrium42> and the GPS chip works fine (that i tested)
[00:18] <jcoxon> yeah its fine
[00:18] <jcoxon> and also teh main processor is fine
[00:18] <jcoxon> and the mobile phone as i can still grab the reception data etc
[00:19] <jcoxon> crap, i have to find a windows computer
[00:19] <natrium42> yes, but why a problem with the sim? :(
[00:19] <Laurenceb> natrium42: what were you doing to the sirf3?
[00:19] <natrium42> trying to reprogram the firmware
[00:19] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[00:20] <natrium42> i was pretty close
[00:20] <Laurenceb> what wire did you use?
[00:20] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/gallery2/v/balloon/setup/gm862-gps.jpg.html
[00:20] <natrium42> it's has a second serial port internally
[00:21] <natrium42> the problem is that cpu is connected to it and messes up the communication
[00:22] <natrium42> i found a trick to keep the cpu out of the picture, but it failed with firmware reprogramming
[00:22] <Laurenceb> couldnt you cut the tracks?
[00:23] <Laurenceb> or are they on an internal layer?
[00:23] <natrium42> yeah, they are not accessible unfortunately
[00:23] <Laurenceb> hmmm is there a reset line on the processor?
[00:24] <natrium42> yes, that's the trick that worked
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[00:24] <natrium42> you could pull reset to the ground and that would keep the cpu from communicating over those lines
[00:24] <Laurenceb> but when reflashing... ?
[00:27] <natrium42> so when i give a command to the Sirf chip to boot into programming mode
[00:27] <natrium42> it doesn't respond to flashing commands
[00:27] <Laurenceb> been locked?
[00:27] <natrium42> my suspicion is that when you reboot it, it checks the reset line and something messes up
[00:28] <natrium42> so you can't go to bootloader while using the reset trick
[00:28] <Laurenceb> is there a connection from the reset to the sirf?
[00:28] <natrium42> that's my theory
[00:29] <natrium42> but then again, i have never tested the reflashing process on a different sirf device
[00:29] <natrium42> maybe i am making a mistake somewhere in software
[00:29] <natrium42> got the tiny gps receiver a few days ago
[00:30] <natrium42> it has boot configuration pins luckily :)
[00:30] <Laurenceb> the one you linked?
[00:30] <natrium42> will probably give it a go
[00:30] <natrium42> yep
[00:30] <Laurenceb> I'm using one from rf solutions
[00:30] <Laurenceb> it apparently has no altitude limit
[00:31] <Laurenceb> and only uses 30ma, but the sensitivity is a bit low
[00:31] <Laurenceb> still it will get a lock on the top floor
[00:32] <natrium42> right, sirf beats everything so far as far as sensitivity is concerned
[00:32] <Laurenceb> I will probably use it in future, due to fairly low weight (14 grams) no altitud elimit and lower current that sirf
[00:32] <Laurenceb> really high sensitivity isnt really needed
[00:34] <Laurenceb> it gets 5 sats on the windowsil
[00:34] <natrium42> well, what if the payload lands in a very bad orientation?
[00:35] <natrium42> also, it would be nice to have everything built into the GM862 module
[00:35] <natrium42> :)
[00:35] <Laurenceb> set it to continue to send the last known position
[00:35] <natrium42> actually, the GE863 module might be easily reflashable
[00:35] <natrium42> since it has both serial ports externally accessible
[00:36] <Laurenceb> all the firmware images are closed source right?
[00:36] <Laurenceb> where do they come from?
[00:36] <Laurenceb> sirf?
[00:42] <natrium42> i found some in a forum
[00:42] <natrium42> with a higher version number than what's on the GM862
[00:42] <Laurenceb> ok
[00:42] <Laurenceb> I've reflashed u-blox in the past
[00:43] <Laurenceb> using firmware off their site
[00:43] <Laurenceb> I'm considering a solar powered long duration low power hab using a radio and gps only, with a single avr
[00:43] <Laurenceb> I'd probably use the rf solutions gps
[00:43] <natrium42> satellite connection?
[00:43] <Laurenceb> no, radio only
[00:43] <natrium42> long duration mission would be awesome
[00:43] <Laurenceb> it would be "fly and forget"
[00:44] <Laurenceb> cheap board and then just minimal electronics, not too much work
[00:44] <natrium42> zero pressure balloon?
[00:44] <Laurenceb> so I could make 3 or 4
[00:44] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:44] <Laurenceb> using 10 micron polythene
[00:45] <Laurenceb> annoyingly that sets the size limit, if i could get thinner polythene
[00:45] <natrium42> i have to dash off, sorry
[00:45] <Laurenceb> cya
[00:45] <natrium42> picking up my bro
[00:45] <natrium42> later
[00:45] <Laurenceb> don't taze me bro
[00:45] <Laurenceb> sorry had to :P
[01:18] <natrium42> ...
[01:18] <natrium42> :P
[01:20] <Laurenceb> hello
[01:20] <natrium42> hi
[01:20] <Laurenceb> ok the radio will fit in a 35mm film canister
[01:20] <Laurenceb> together with 700mah of lipos :D
[01:20] <natrium42> wow, tiny
[01:20] <natrium42> you can feet a gps in there as well
[01:20] <Laurenceb> no
[01:21] <Laurenceb> that will be glued to the lid
[01:21] <natrium42> right, ok
[01:21] <Laurenceb> then I could mount it all inside a foam sphere, filled with ethanol
[01:22] <natrium42> why ethanol?
[01:22] <Laurenceb> with a magnetic release valve on the bottom, and powerfilm panels on the sides
[01:22] <Laurenceb> low freezing point
[01:22] <natrium42> as ballast?
[01:22] <Laurenceb> yes
[01:22] <natrium42> i see
[01:22] <Laurenceb> totla weight a few hundered grams, mostly ballast
[01:22] <Laurenceb> then a zero pressure on the top
[01:23] <natrium42> have you built zero pressure balloons before?
[01:23] <Laurenceb> but thats the limiting part, as the thickness of the polythene determines the overall weight
[01:23] <Laurenceb> yes
[01:23] <Laurenceb> but hot aair ones, meths powered
[01:23] <Laurenceb> one had video downlink
[01:24] <Laurenceb> another was an airborne firwork launcher :P
[01:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.overflite.com/
[01:25] <Laurenceb> like those only larger
[01:26] <Laurenceb> I need 5 micron polythene
[01:26] <natrium42> sounds pretty thin. not going to tear?
[01:26] <Laurenceb> shouldnt do
[01:27] <Laurenceb> its a small envelope remember
[01:27] <Laurenceb> 1.5 meter radius or thereabouts
[01:29] <jcoxon> natrium42, guess what
[01:29] <jcoxon> now the firmware is broken - oops
[01:29] <jcoxon> it reflashes about half way then errors
[01:29] <natrium42> did you interrupt the process?
[01:29] <jcoxon> nope
[01:29] <natrium42> which firmware?
[01:29] <jcoxon> well i was going for the latest
[01:29] <natrium42> i'd try to downgrade
[01:30] <jcoxon> tried that
[01:30] <jcoxon> still errors about halfway
[01:30] <jcoxon> was on vista, will try XP tomorrow
[01:30] <natrium42> hrm, okay
[01:30] <Laurenceb> :(
[01:30] <jcoxon> well i'll sleep on it, some crazy idea will come to me i'm sure
[01:30] <jcoxon> night all
[01:30] <natrium42> nite jcoxon
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[01:31] <Laurenceb> poor guy
[01:31] <Laurenceb> not jcoxons day
[01:32] <natrium42> some problems take ages to solve :(
[01:32] <Laurenceb> hmm a 500 gram 1.5 meter diameter balloon can cruise at 27Km
[01:32] <Laurenceb> now, can I make such a beast...
[01:32] <natrium42> yes you can
[01:33] <natrium42> :)
[01:33] <natrium42> do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it
[01:33] <Laurenceb> arm thats 3m diameter, 1.5m radius
[01:33] <Laurenceb> hehe
[01:34] <Laurenceb> 280 gram envelope with 10 micron poythene, I need 5 micron
[01:34] <Laurenceb> with 140 gram envelope there is room for ballast and electronics
[01:35] <Laurenceb> I should write a zero pressure designer code and put it on the wiki some time
[01:38] <Laurenceb> cant find any sources of 5 micron polythene :(
[01:39] <natrium42> bbl food
[01:45] <Laurenceb> it could be done with this http://www.indoorflyer.co.uk/clear-mylar-covering-249-p.asp
[01:46] <Laurenceb> but it would take £85 of mylar, and IIRC mylar has absorption bands in the IR... actually maybe that will help, need to look it up
[01:48] <Laurenceb> it need to be in a aerogel enclosure :P
[01:52] <Laurenceb> but it looks doable
[02:20] <Laurenceb> cool, the radio is now on 6ma sleep, 27ma transmitting
[03:07] <Laurenceb> natrium42: you about?
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[08:17] <Hiena> Good morning!
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[12:00] <bon_jk> hi!
[12:01] <bon_jk> I was looking for a GPS receiver without the 60kft limits, is that one right? http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7951
[12:02] <bon_jk> in the datasheet the speed limit is only mentioned... but I'm not really sure
[12:11] <Hiena> If it sold in the US, it must be. As i remember the speed and altitude limits, is due the law.
[12:15] <bon_jk> which shop in europe could offer a good gps solution similar to this one?
[12:18] <bon_jk> (but without this limit)
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[12:45] <Hiena> I dunno. Maybe natrium42 could helps you.
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[13:26] Nick change: hrf -> hrf_jack
[13:27] <hrf_jack> hello everybody
[13:32] <hrf_jack> I've been looking your radio modules, but on the manufacturer website (434mhz chip) says it only has a 800m range, how do you achieve that long distances with only 10mw and 434Mhz ? Thanks
[13:37] <Hiena> Hi hrf_jack ! They using, a 11 element Yagi. But how they done it puzzles me too. Some years ago i'm done 80km CQ with 30mW but it was done at 36kHz.
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[13:39] <hrf_jack> but that antenna on the earth right?
[13:40] <hrf_jack> because yagis are big
[13:40] <Hiena> Depends on the frequency. At 400MHz it's less than 1m lomg.
[13:41] <hrf_jack> but how to put a yagi on the payload? have you got any page with more information?
[13:41] <Hiena> And, yes they used it on the ground level.
[13:41] <hrf_jack> It really confuses me, how to receive the signals with only 10mw :S
[13:42] <Hiena> I guess, it's better, if you comes back little bit later. Laurenceb is a main organiser, he could give you more details.
[13:43] <Hiena> Yup. The average R/C controller uses several hundred mW and still has about a few km range.
[13:44] <Hiena> Also, the 400Mhz is damn crowded, so using some high sensitive receiver is not an option.
[13:45] <hrf_jack> which chip are you using?
[13:46] <hrf_jack> I've found they are using this one: http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:firefly:fhalp-2#radio
[13:46] <hrf_jack> uses 434mhz, which is ok for europe
[13:49] <hrf_jack> http://www.cdt21.com/products/tx.rx/cdptx04s/default.asp
[13:49] <hrf_jack> as you can see, they output 10mW
[13:53] <Hiena> I'm using custom circuits, like SO42 based receivers. Also, i'm not for the high frequencies. With a clever design, you could use a few dozen meter long wire as antenna for the transmitter with a same weight as a 433MHz module's and you could build a transmitter from 2$ cost.
[13:55] <hrf_jack> have you got more information on that?
[13:56] <Hiena> Nope.
[13:57] <hrf_jack> I'd prefere to buy made transmitters/receivers
[13:57] <hrf_jack> I'm not really experienced on radio communications
[14:06] <Hiena> Yup. The pre-fab boards easy to use for an average man.
[14:08] <hrf_jack> yes
[14:08] <hrf_jack> what makes me unsure is the range. Who is the manager of Pegasus HAB project?
[14:08] <hrf_jack> the one who uses that module
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[14:23] <jcoxon> hey all
[14:23] <jcoxon> hrf_jack, thats me (i do pegasus)
[14:23] <jcoxon> the radio range is done by clever method of shaping the wave
[14:24] <jcoxon> and remember that the range they quote is on the ground, once in the air you have an incredible line of sight
[14:27] <hrf_jack> hi jcoxon
[14:27] <jcoxon> hi
[14:28] <hrf_jack> and do you have coverage during all the flight? or how many km?
[14:28] <jcoxon> the futherst we got is 250km
[14:28] <hrf_jack> :O!
[14:28] <jcoxon> but it was out to sea, so we gave up tracking it
[14:28] <hrf_jack> and do you use a yagi antenna on the ground?
[14:28] <jcoxon> coverage most of the flight, though you lose it as it approaches the ground
[14:29] <jcoxon> yup a yagi with a good radio receiver
[14:29] <jcoxon> actually we all have the same type: Yaesu 790
[14:29] <hrf_jack> I've seen you are using: http://www.cdt21.com/products/tx.rx/cdptx04s/default.asp
[14:30] <jcoxon> yeah, for firefly i'm doing things a little different
[14:30] <jcoxon> i'm not the greatest radio person, the long range radio have been radiometrix radios with a PIC controlling them
[14:30] <jcoxon> and they transmit using RTTY
[14:31] <jcoxon> this time i'm using that module and transmitting using Morse
[14:31] <hrf_jack> hve you ever tried them or just the 1st time?
[14:32] <jcoxon> tomorrow will be the first time with that module
[14:32] <hrf_jack> :O
[14:32] <jcoxon> so i'll get back to you :-p
[14:32] <hrf_jack> hehe
[14:33] <jcoxon> so you are interested in balloons?
[14:33] <hrf_jack> but are u using the yaesu receiver or the one which is shown in the website
[14:33] <hrf_jack> yes, started to prepare one
[14:33] <hrf_jack> by now SD logging is done and temp sensor too
[14:33] <jcoxon> oh the yaesu receiver
[14:33] <jcoxon> whats you flight computer?
[14:34] <hrf_jack> AVR from atmel
[14:34] <jcoxon> cool
[14:34] <hrf_jack> they're simple to use and efficient
[14:34] <hrf_jack> at least in my other projects
[14:34] <jcoxon> indeed, they are used quite a bit here
[14:34] <jcoxon> where are you based?
[14:35] <hrf_jack> Spain
[14:35] <jcoxon> cool
[14:35] <hrf_jack> gerard gave me that IRC channel
[14:35] <jcoxon> right, just was about to ask
[14:35] <jcoxon> i remembered someone from spain recently
[14:35] <hrf_jack> we're 8 people
[14:35] <jcoxon> for radio modules the best one is probably the radiometrix
[14:36] <hrf_jack> the good thing is that they take a tx and rx
[14:37] <jcoxon> http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/tx2rx2.htm
[14:37] <jcoxon> this is the one we use
[14:37] <hrf_jack> so I suppose a yaesu would not be necessary
[14:37] <jcoxon> no a lot of the range is in the receiver
[14:37] <jcoxon> the ft-790 is very good
[14:37] <hrf_jack> is it expensive?
[14:37] <jcoxon> ?100
[14:38] <jcoxon> you don't need that exact one but we find its been the best
[14:38] <jcoxon> its quite portable
[14:38] <jcoxon> which reminds me that i need to get some batteries for tomorrow's launch
[14:38] <hrf_jack> let me take a look at it
[14:38] <hrf_jack> hehe
[14:39] <jcoxon> the weather here has just got nice
[14:40] <jcoxon> tomorrow will be a good day for a launch
[14:40] <hrf_jack> good luck :)
[14:40] <jcoxon> hrf_jack, have you seen wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[14:40] <hrf_jack> yes, I've seen your wiki page too
[14:40] <hrf_jack> the firefly-2
[14:40] <jcoxon> :-) i'm in the process of shifting over
[14:40] <jcoxon> well i've had some problems
[14:40] <jcoxon> stupid module has gone weird and won't detect the sim card
[14:41] <jcoxon> but everything else works so i'm still going to fly
[14:41] <hrf_jack> good
[14:41] <hrf_jack> which antenna are you using you?
[14:42] <hrf_jack> sorry for asking so much about radio, but I'm not experienced on that :)
[14:42] <jcoxon> its okay
[14:42] <jcoxon> i'm not great either but i'll try :-D
[14:42] <hrf_jack> :)
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[14:43] <fnoble> hi
[14:43] <jcoxon> '70cms 7 element ZL Special from moonraker antennas'
[14:43] <jcoxon> hey fnoble
[14:43] <hrf_jack> as I see yaesu must output sound signal? and then decode morse using a pc app right?
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[14:43] <fnoble> hows it going? got your gsm module going?
[14:43] <edmoore> hi fnoble , jcoxon
[14:43] <fnoble> hi ed
[14:43] <edmoore> so what came of last night?
[14:43] <jcoxon> fnoble, nope still being weird
[14:44] <jcoxon> but we are go
[14:44] <edmoore> I knew I'd seen those A123s before
[14:44] <hrf_jack> hi everybody
[14:44] <fnoble> ed, where else did you see them?
[14:44] <edmoore> robotwars: http://www.terrorhurtz.com/a123/build.aspx
[14:44] <edmoore> a few months back
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[14:45] <jcoxon> its going crazy in here :-)
[14:45] <jcoxon> hrf_jack, sorry yeah thats how it works
[14:46] <edmoore> wow
[14:46] <edmoore> 18
[14:46] <edmoore> soon we will break 20
[14:46] <fnoble> do you want me to try and get hold of the cusf radio and yagi?
[14:46] <edmoore> then we're proper
[14:46] <fnoble> for tomorrow
[14:48] <edmoore> jcoxon: the weather is just gorgeous. i'm really excited about tomorrow
[14:48] <hrf_jack> jcoxon: which gps module are you using? since some of them stop working at 60kft right?
[14:48] <edmoore> we *will* film a descent from the ground, I recks
[14:48] <jcoxon> yeah, i'm using the sirfIII on my module
[14:48] <jcoxon> which will break at 24km
[14:48] <jcoxon> but i've got a reset clause and the plan is to cutdown before
[14:49] <edmoore> hrf_jack: the safe bets are the lassen IQ (available from sparkfun) and other trimble ones
[14:49] <edmoore> i think ublox ones also work
[14:50] <hrf_jack> trimble ones only have speed limit on the datasheet, there's nowhere a altitude limit
[14:50] <edmoore> fnoble: another use for space: batt backup
[14:50] <edmoore> that's because there isn't one, in theory
[14:50] <edmoore> assuming you stay under the speed limit
[14:51] <edmoore> in the lassen datasheet they specifically say that you can break the alt limit assuming you don't break the speed one, and that this makes them ideal fro scientific balloons
[14:52] <jcoxon> fnoble, the another radio would be good
[14:53] <jcoxon> actually we have 2 all ready
[14:53] <jcoxon> perhaps just the yagi
[14:53] <jcoxon> as we only have
[14:53] <jcoxon> 1
[14:55] <fnoble> just phoned rob, its all in his room, ill pick it up tonight just in case
[14:55] <jcoxon> edmoore, i'll package up the camera as a module
[14:56] <jcoxon> and i'll put together a 555 timer running off its battery
[14:56] <jcoxon> so that it can function on its own
[14:56] <edmoore> cool
[14:57] <edmoore> did i show you nevada balloonsat?
[14:58] <jcoxon> don't think so
[14:59] <edmoore> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IJkBRRjrbQ
[14:59] <edmoore> dig slr is an imperative. asap
[15:00] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:firefly:fhalp-2:forecast
[15:01] <jcoxon> they don't have the sea to land in!
[15:05] <edmoore> true
[15:05] <jcoxon> but yeah
[15:05] <jcoxon> cool
[15:05] <edmoore> so crisp
[15:05] <edmoore> did you see doug's vodcast?
[15:06] <jcoxon> i'm alot more relaxed now that i don't have to worry about the damn sim card
[15:06] <jcoxon> just going to look
[15:06] <jcoxon> have you looked at that kml file?
[15:07] <edmoore> haha
[15:07] <edmoore> wow
[15:08] <edmoore> great day for an alt attempt
[15:08] <edmoore> god, never seen a profile like that
[15:08] <jcoxon> well you have 24hrs to build a gps recorder
[15:09] <edmoore> ferg
[15:09] <edmoore> fnoble:
[15:09] <edmoore> there?
[15:09] <edmoore> fnoble: fnoble fnoble fnoble
[15:10] <jcoxon> what should i search for?
[15:10] <edmoore> unmannedspaceflight
[15:13] <jcoxon> its brilliant
[15:13] <edmoore> watching vid update 1?
[15:14] <jcoxon> yup
[15:14] <edmoore> he's great :)
[15:14] <jcoxon> i still don't have a parchute
[15:14] <jcoxon> crap
[15:14] <edmoore> asked steve?
[15:14] <jcoxon> forgot to
[15:14] <fnoble> back
[15:14] <jcoxon> i'll text him
[15:15] <edmoore> fnoble: I was going to suggest building a gps logger otu of one of the old ublox 1 chips
[15:15] <edmoore> but they're 150ma or something stupid and it's be a bit of a bodge
[15:15] <fnoble> we do have a few different ones iirc
[15:15] <edmoore> a high alt one
[15:16] <edmoore> as jame's sirf3 is only good for 24k
[15:16] <fnoble> hmm, yeah actually the other ones might not be good
[15:16] <fnoble> well, if your free we could have a sesh
[15:16] <edmoore> i'm not sure I am just yet
[15:16] <jcoxon> haha, love last minute builds
[15:17] <edmoore> but we could make an atmega 8 logger
[15:17] <jcoxon> i'll get it home if its below 24km
[15:17] <fnoble> yeah
[15:17] <edmoore> do you have a parallel port?
[15:17] <fnoble> nope
[15:17] <edmoore> grrr
[15:17] <edmoore> we can't program the arseing programmer then
[15:17] <fnoble> well we do have lots of pics and a progger
[15:17] <edmoore> really need to get a usbasp
[15:17] <edmoore> hmm yes
[15:18] <fnoble> shall i get the perf board out :)
[15:18] <edmoore> well we'll need big batteries
[15:18] <edmoore> which would not help with our alt attempt craziness
[15:18] <fnoble> na, just some lithiums will do
[15:19] <edmoore> got those GPSs?
[15:19] <fnoble> ive just found a ublox1
[15:20] <edmoore> how goes antenna integrate?
[15:20] <edmoore> we might end up building badger 1
[15:20] <edmoore> I have a 500g in my bedside table
[15:20] <fnoble> got one of those tiny rf sockets, but has a pulg with trailing lead plugged in it so np
[15:21] <edmoore> so we just need to log the gps
[15:21] <fnoble> we have the big old balloon under my desk
[15:21] <fnoble> not the squid, but a big latex
[15:21] <fnoble> its a 1.2kg
[15:21] <fnoble> :)
[15:22] <jcoxon> edmoore, how about you log the alt and then overwrite it if its bigger
[15:22] <edmoore> well if we have some eeprom then it's no problem
[15:22] <edmoore> but if not, agreed
[15:22] <fnoble> we have a bunch of sd sockets lying arround
[15:23] <edmoore> this is crazy
[15:23] <edmoore> ok, i can make it to queens from 7ish
[15:23] <edmoore> i'll bring my car
[15:23] <edmoore> with power supply, soldering iron, all my electronics
[15:23] <fnoble> ok, cool
[15:23] <edmoore> you have icd2?
[15:23] <fnoble> an icd2 clone
[15:24] <edmoore> mplab in virtual box?
[15:24] <fnoble> cant we prog the avr with your usb jtag?
[15:24] <fnoble> mplab can be arranged
[15:24] <edmoore> no stop asking
[15:25] <fnoble> but surely jtag is jtag
[15:28] <edmoore> no
[15:29] <edmoore> It's cheap and only set up to support arm7, arm9, xscale and cortex m3
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[15:37] <fnoble> bbl
[15:37] <edmoore> ok
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[17:41] <edmoore> hi Laurenceb
[17:41] <Laurenceb> hey all
[17:41] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[17:41] <Laurenceb> hi ed
[17:41] <edmoore> how's it going?
[17:42] <Laurenceb> big problem sheet
[17:42] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: hows the telit module?
[17:45] <Laurenceb> I've got the current consumption down to 6ma sleep on the radio
[17:45] <Laurenceb> looks like the oscillator is using the power
[17:45] <edmoore> 6ma!?
[17:46] <edmoore> that's a lot for an oscillator
[17:46] <Laurenceb> its set to large swing
[17:46] <Laurenceb> -full swing*
[17:52] <Laurenceb> I'm not sure if the lower power modes will be as stable at low temperature
[17:54] <Laurenceb> actually, 2 or 3 ma of that will be the radio module and analogue tronics
[17:55] <Laurenceb> is the launch still on for sunday then?
[18:04] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, yup its on
[18:05] <Laurenceb> cool, you solved the problems?
[18:07] <jcoxon> nope
[18:07] <jcoxon> :-p
[18:07] <jcoxon> everything works but the sim card
[18:07] <Laurenceb> right so....
[18:07] <jcoxon> and the weather is excellent for tomorrow
[18:07] <Laurenceb> radio only?
[18:07] <jcoxon> yup
[18:07] <Laurenceb> camera?
[18:07] <jcoxon> no
[18:07] <Laurenceb> which radio module?
[18:08] <jcoxon> circuit design
[18:08] <Laurenceb> ok, should be interesting
[18:08] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:08] Action: Laurenceb is struggling to understand the linear free surface approximation with coriolis terms :S
[18:08] <jcoxon> the forecast trajectory reckons it'll go 13miles
[18:08] <Laurenceb> cool
[18:10] <Laurenceb> hmm where did you buy that module?
[18:11] <jcoxon> steve gave it to me
[18:11] <jcoxon> he had it lying around
[18:11] <Laurenceb> ok
[18:11] <Laurenceb> uses more current than radiometrix, but smaller
[18:12] <jcoxon> http://www.cdt21.com/products/tx.rx/cdptx04s/default.asp
[18:12] <jcoxon> but it doesn't do varying voltages
[18:12] <jcoxon>
[18:12] <jcoxon> i think its a schoktteeteyerefer er ere one
[18:12] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:14] <Laurenceb> eh?
[18:20] <Laurenceb> right time for more work, bbl
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[18:48] <Laurenceb1> has anyone got any blue foam?
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[19:24] <Hiena> Laurenceb1, i have one sheet, and a complete board of the green one. It's a bit harder than the blue.
[19:31] <Laurenceb1> can you do an experiment for me?
[19:31] <Laurenceb1> is it permiable?
[19:31] <Laurenceb1> ie if you have a small indentation in the side, will water soak in?
[19:32] <Laurenceb1> I'm wondering if its possible to make a storage tank from machined foam
[19:33] Nick change: Laurenceb1 -> Laurenceb
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[19:50] <natrium42> hola
[19:50] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
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[19:52] <fnoble> woo, 20
[19:52] <fnoble> hows it going jcoxon?
[19:53] <edmoore> wow
[19:53] <edmoore> first time ever?
[19:53] <fnoble> ed, ive started the badger1
[19:54] <jcoxon> edmoore,
[19:54] <jcoxon> so timings for tomorrow
[19:54] <Laurenceb> arrrggg
[19:55] <Laurenceb> stupid equations
[19:55] <edmoore> 9.30 pyu?
[19:55] <Laurenceb> jst been faffing about for 2 hours to prove that one expression is an expanion of the other :(
[19:55] <Laurenceb> what a waste of my life
[19:56] <edmoore> yes. ok back to topic
[19:56] <Laurenceb> good luck for tomorrow :P
[19:56] <edmoore> jcoxon: what are your timings?
[19:56] <Laurenceb> lol sorry I'm annoyed
[19:56] <natrium42> jcoxon, any good news?
[19:56] <edmoore> jcoxon and fnoble: what say you to writing a python flight predictor of our own where we can spec in ascent rates and dexcnt rates?
[19:57] <Laurenceb> edmoore: use mine off the wiki
[19:57] <edmoore> link
[19:57] <fnoble> btw, look up pyplot
[19:58] <Laurenceb> well its not complete, but the main stuff is there http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:aerosol_code
[19:58] <Laurenceb> the functions you need are present, just a matter of calling them
[19:58] <edmoore> no that's catagorically not what I meant
[19:58] <Laurenceb> I've tested it a lot
[19:58] <edmoore> I mean something that downloads the gfs forcasts and generates a kml with predicted flight profile
[19:59] <Laurenceb> lol sorry
[19:59] Action: Laurenceb retreats back to his work
[19:59] <edmoore> :p
[19:59] <jcoxon> edmoore, sorry was on the phone
[19:59] <jcoxon> well the trains are rubbish
[19:59] <jcoxon> typicla
[20:00] <edmoore> whenever
[20:00] <jcoxon> i'll get the 7.55 which gets in at 9.19
[20:00] <Hiena> Laurenceb, it will soak. I made a several floats from these material and it gains weight.
[20:01] <Laurenceb> ok thanx for trying
[20:01] <Laurenceb> but is the weight gain limited?
[20:01] <fnoble> edmoore, you coming over then?
[20:01] <jcoxon> crappty crap crap
[20:01] <natrium42> so the launch tomorrow is still on?
[20:01] <jcoxon> need some C batteries
[20:01] <jcoxon> natrium42, yup
[20:02] <Laurenceb> ie does it soak in say 5mm then stop?
[20:02] <jcoxon> edmoore, i'll call you when i'm getting into Cam
[20:02] <jcoxon> Doug is coming along
[20:02] <natrium42> jcoxon, so you fixed the module? or launching something else?
[20:02] <edmoore> fnoble - how much have you done?
[20:02] <jcoxon> nah i didn't fix it
[20:02] <Laurenceb> its supposed to be closed cell, so theoretically it shouldnt soak in beyond a few cells
[20:02] <edmoore> I need this aspel to get through my system before I can drive
[20:02] <jcoxon> but i'm still launching with just radio
[20:02] <Hiena> Laurenceb, not much as the white styrofoam, but still get. If you paint it wit some epoxy resin, it will be watertight.
[20:02] <Laurenceb> good idea
[20:03] <jcoxon> edmoore, you by any chance going near a shop?
[20:03] <jcoxon> wanna pick me up 8x C cells for my radio?
[20:03] <edmoore> why?
[20:03] <Laurenceb> Hiena: thanx for the info :P
[20:03] <edmoore> i will if I go
[20:03] <edmoore> we can stop at bar hill tesco, maybe
[20:04] <edmoore> or i could go to tesco this eve
[20:04] <edmoore> which I'm tempted to do
[20:04] <edmoore> it's 24h
[20:04] <jcoxon> well if you are tempted...
[20:04] <jcoxon> if not i'll go to my local in my way out
[20:05] <jcoxon> right well the final checks are done, it gets a lock and transmits, what more could you want
[20:07] <edmoore> if we were to make a high alt logger....
[20:08] <jcoxon> ...
[20:09] <edmoore> how high would you be willing to go?
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[20:15] <edmoore> 21 must be a record, jcoxon?
[20:15] <Laurenceb1> theres 2 of me
[20:16] <jcoxon> 21?
[20:16] <Laurenceb1> people on here
[20:16] <jcoxon> oh right
[20:16] <jcoxon> confused
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[20:28] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[20:30] <jcoxon> night all
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[20:45] <Laurenceb> hmm the sparkfun lassen iq looks good for a long duration low power balloon
[20:45] <Laurenceb> if I used that and one of the circuit design radios, all the tronics would fit in a 35mm film canister
[20:46] <Laurenceb> I might design a pcb for this :P
[20:47] <Laurenceb> two 350mah lipos would fit in as well, enough to power it overnight
[20:48] <fnoble> that would be sweet
[20:48] <Laurenceb> I'll put a design on the wiki soon
[20:49] <Laurenceb> my idea is a foam sphere, 10cm outside diameter, 6cm inside
[20:49] <Laurenceb> with a film caniser inside
[20:49] <Laurenceb> then filled with ethanol
[20:49] <Laurenceb> and a valve on the bottom
[20:50] <Laurenceb> powerfilm cells to supply power, with a dump resistor in the ethanol at the bottom, to stop overcharging
[20:51] <Laurenceb> I'm wondering if carbon fibre rods could be used for the antenna, with powerfilm cells stretched between
[20:51] <Laurenceb> not sure if you can cut powerfilm....
[20:52] <Laurenceb> I'll have to buy some
[20:53] <Laurenceb> http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/
[21:28] <natrium42> Laurenceb, yeah, i have that module
[21:28] <natrium42> it's extremely low power
[21:28] <natrium42> (but sensitivity sucks)
[21:30] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:30] <Laurenceb> what is it?
[21:30] <natrium42> it doesn't work inside the house
[21:30] <natrium42> but should work fine for your purpose
[21:30] <Laurenceb> yes
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[21:31] <Laurenceb> about -140 or so?
[21:31] <natrium42> not sure, i am talking subjectively :)
[21:31] <natrium42> sparkfun's page should have the number
[21:35] <Laurenceb> better or worse than sirf2 ?
[21:36] <natrium42> haven't used sirf2
[21:36] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:36] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/wiki/GPS
[21:36] <natrium42> ^ that's my module
[21:38] <Laurenceb> grr firefox just died
[21:38] <Laurenceb> nice
[21:39] <Laurenceb> ok... the lassen iq datasheet seems to kill firefox
[21:40] <natrium42> bbl
[21:45] <Laurenceb> me 2
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[22:28] <Hiena> Ohohohoho...If i got lucky, I'll flying on tomorrow!
[22:28] <Laurenceb> eh?
[22:34] <Hiena> My pals will go to an airfield towing tomorrow. Also at this airfild one co-worker from our company learning to fly a Cessna. So, if i'm little bit lucky, i'll fly with powered hang-glider, if i'm more lucky i'll fly powered hang-glider and towed, if i'm really, really lucky and shameless hyena, i'll fly with powered hang-glider, Cessna, and being towed.
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[22:36] <Laurenceb> cool
[22:36] <Laurenceb> have fun :P
[22:36] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[00:00] --- Sun Feb 10 2008