highaltitude.log.20080130

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[00:12] <prpplague> ho ho ho
[00:12] <prpplague> merry freakin tuesday
[00:13] <prpplague> ho ho hum
[00:13] <prpplague> i was able to decode the rtty sample file from wikipedia
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[00:34] Action: prpplague is totally fascinated with rtty
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[00:41] <prpplague> anyone got other rtty captured audio with matching text?
[01:21] <prpplague> quiet in the evenings here
[01:22] <natrium42> yes
[01:22] <natrium42> most people are in the UK
[01:25] <prpplague> hehe i figured as much
[01:25] <prpplague> i'm cursing you guys for introducing me to rtty
[01:25] <prpplague> its totally fascinating
[01:26] <natrium42> hehe
[01:26] Action: natrium42 has yet to play with it
[01:27] <prpplague> natrium42: i grabbed some sample audio captures
[01:27] <prpplague> natrium42: slowed them down 1/2 speed
[01:27] <prpplague> natrium42: ran them through a c app to get the bits and decoded
[01:27] <prpplague> natrium42: seems to be working
[01:27] <natrium42> cool
[01:27] <natrium42> did you make your own app?
[01:28] <prpplague> natrium42: gonna try capturing the data playing from a pc to the hammer boards ADC tomorrow
[01:28] <prpplague> yea
[01:28] <prpplague> its funny, its very similiar to a keyboard matrix device driver we did for a handheld a few years ago
[01:30] <natrium42> neat
[01:30] <natrium42> let me know how it goes
[01:30] <prpplague> natrium42: i normally do handheld stuff, i
[01:30] <prpplague> natrium42: i've not had a "hobby" item in a long time
[01:30] <prpplague> natrium42: find this totally fascinating
[01:31] <prpplague> natrium42: should be able to do RTTY in both directions using the hammer
[01:31] <natrium42> :)
[01:33] <natrium42> haven't done any radio stuff yet
[01:33] <natrium42> do you have an amateur license?
[01:34] <natrium42> i tried to avoid it, but might be worth to get it...
[01:35] <prpplague> natrium42: no i've don;t have an amateur license, however i spent 4 years in the US Army doing radio coms
[01:35] <natrium42> ah
[01:36] <prpplague> natrium42: i'm mainly interested in the software side of the communication though
[01:36] <prpplague> natrium42: i'd like to do a near-space projects similiar to what you did
[01:36] <natrium42> yah, something simple to get started before you do a complex mission :)
[01:36] <prpplague> hehe inded
[01:37] <prpplague> natrium42: i've got this crazy idea of a generic computing brick for long term space missions
[01:37] <natrium42> rad hard?
[01:37] <prpplague> yea
[01:38] <prpplague> with a high level language oriented towards common mission operations
[01:38] <prpplague> i.e. pre loaded with i/o operations for enviromental controll, solar panel operations, power control, navigation
[01:39] <prpplague> only one type of brick for all the operations, so you only need one type of spare to carry
[01:39] <prpplague> and if worst case you have problems you can yake a brick from one operation to be used in another
[01:39] <natrium42> i was just thinking today about an opensource rover for a planetary/asteroid mission
[01:40] <natrium42> build the hardware and then look for launch opportunities...
[01:40] <prpplague> indeed
[01:40] <prpplague> natrium42: mars would be great, but the moon would be ambitious enough
[01:41] <natrium42> right, and there's google prize for the moon
[01:41] <prpplague> oh? i wasn't aware of that
[01:42] <prpplague> natrium42: most of the components i use on the hammer are available in rad-hard
[01:43] <prpplague> they are pricy ,but available
[01:43] <prpplague> i was reading the other day how so many of the nasa folks are trying to reverse engineer alot of the old apollo tech
[01:43] <natrium42> what OS would you suggest?
[01:43] <prpplague> since most of it was classified at the time, very few whitepapers were written
[01:44] <prpplague> natrium42: well, i'm partial to linux
[01:44] <prpplague> natrium42: but thats just because i'm comfortable with it
[01:44] <natrium42> need to use realtime OS
[01:45] <prpplague> yea, there are some very good rtos patches for linux
[01:45] <natrium42> right
[01:45] <natrium42> just not sure what the status on those is
[01:45] <natrium42> they seemed a bit hackish a while ago
[01:47] <prpplague> indeed, about a year ago a major move to make them more mainstream was being done
[01:48] <prpplague> we've got a pretty good page on rtos linux started on the elinux wiki
[01:48] <prpplague> http://elinux.org/Real_Time
[01:48] <natrium42> NASA likes to use wxWorks
[01:49] <prpplague> ahh, i've just started doing research on some of their postings
[01:49] <prpplague> elinux is primarily supported by CELF which is primarily sponsered by Sony
[01:50] <natrium42> interesting
[01:50] <natrium42> bah, my website keeps dying
[01:51] <natrium42> need to move to dedicated hosting
[01:53] <prpplague> well if you start doing dev for a project, i have tons of hardware we use
[01:53] <prpplague> atleast for earthly prototypes
[01:55] <natrium42> thanks for the offer!
[01:56] <prpplague> what;s the bounty on the moon mission?
[01:56] <natrium42> http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/
[01:57] <natrium42> $30 million
[01:57] Action: prpplague looks
[01:58] <natrium42> only one team registered so far --> http://www.odysseymoon.com/
[02:06] <prpplague> hmm, wonder if a mission goal of planting a 8 char led display from sfe would count? http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/present.php?p=GPSClock-1
[02:06] <prpplague> i bet we could get advertising
[02:07] <natrium42> lol
[02:07] <natrium42> would it be visible from earth? :P
[02:07] <prpplague> yea you'd be surpriused
[02:09] Action: prpplague likes the idea of this bounty
[02:09] <prpplague> natrium42: i'm sure we could do the tech for a bot and such
[02:10] <prpplague> natrium42: problem is getting transportation
[02:10] <natrium42> yes, exactly
[02:11] <prpplague> i have the perfect landing spot - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_crater
[02:13] <natrium42> why?
[02:13] <natrium42> it's on the far side
[02:13] <natrium42> would have to relay the signal
[02:14] <prpplague> natrium42: was a joke, (do a whois on my nick)
[02:14] <natrium42> hehe :P
[02:15] <prpplague> william anders is my grandfathers' brother's son
[02:16] <prpplague> no clue what that makes me
[02:16] <natrium42> hehe, cool
[02:18] <prpplague> no clue what that makes me
[02:18] <prpplague> natrium42: you ever listen to the group crystal method ?
[02:19] <natrium42> never heard of it, sorry
[02:20] <prpplague> ahh nm then its a popular song year alot on commercials
[02:21] <prpplague> natrium42: ever see an old commercial where you see a picture of the earth and someone is reading from the book of genisis in the bible?
[02:21] <prpplague> they usually play it during christmas
[02:23] <natrium42> sure, that was an astronaut, right?
[02:23] <prpplague> yea william anders, they were up on xmas day
[02:23] <natrium42> aah, i see :)
[02:23] <prpplague> apollo 8
[02:25] <prpplague> my only claim to fame, hehe
[02:27] <prpplague> i guess i'll have to wait till tomorrow for some info on some radios for use with rtty
[02:27] <prpplague> i'm wondering what larenceb is using
[02:27] <prpplague> he said he had it working as a downlink to ground control
[02:27] <prpplague> just not as a uplink to the payload
[02:32] <prpplague> natrium42: you are still in school?
[02:32] <natrium42> finishing bachelors of CS
[02:34] <prpplague> ahh good deal
[02:34] <natrium42> what about you?
[02:35] <prpplague> hehe i've been out of school a very long time
[02:35] <prpplague> i'm the lead embedded developer for http://www.amltd.com
[02:35] <prpplague> we do industrial handhelds
[02:36] <prpplague> wide temp range, radiation hardened, IP rated stuff
[02:36] <natrium42> oh, awesome
[02:37] <prpplague> AML just started a spin off, tincantools, makers of the hammer board
[02:38] <natrium42> so you know things about manufacture as well, then?
[02:38] Action: natrium42 is working on an adapter for nintendo DS
[02:39] <natrium42> here's an old one i made --> http://www.electrobee.com/dserial2-with-tilt-sensor-p-20.html
[02:39] <prpplague> natrium42: yea, i normally handle the integration between hardware and software
[02:39] <natrium42> had to hand solder about 400 of those, hehe
[02:40] <natrium42> anyway, i am working on something different right now
[02:40] <prpplague> hehe
[02:40] <prpplague> nice
[02:41] <natrium42> going to go for professional manufacture, etc
[02:41] <natrium42> custom plastics and boxing
[02:41] <prpplague> still gonna use a 8051 core?
[02:41] <natrium42> nope
[02:41] <natrium42> actel fpga
[02:41] <natrium42> it's going to have different functionality
[02:42] <prpplague> ahh
[02:43] <prpplague> i did a port of uzix to the original gameboy, and then later tinkered with the gba series with uclinux
[02:43] <prpplague> but i really don't care for core's without mmu or some serious memory paging
[02:43] <natrium42> haha, yep
[02:43] <natrium42> stupid nintendo
[02:43] <natrium42> it would have cost them $1 more or something
[02:44] <natrium42> :)
[02:44] <prpplague> indeed
[02:45] <prpplague> natrium42: my last non-mmu device hack was the juicebox - http://www.hackaday.com/2005/10/20/juicebox-custom-linux-cart/
[02:46] <natrium42> ooh
[02:46] <natrium42> awesome
[02:46] <natrium42> i remember reading that
[02:46] <natrium42> didn't know it was you :)
[02:47] <prpplague> hehe, i usually keep a low profile
[02:50] <prpplague> ugly hack but it works, hehe
[02:58] <natrium42> bbl
[03:00] <prpplague> i'm out of here for tonight oo
[03:00] <prpplague> too
[03:00] <prpplague> natrium42: later
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[11:24] <Laurenceb> hi all
[11:24] <Laurenceb> hi Rocketboy
[11:24] <Laurenceb> RocketBoy: I've got an assembled thermopile amplifer board :D shall I post it to you?
[11:26] <Laurenceb> also, I've got the radio built, can you offer any advice on antenna construction?
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[13:18] <Laurenceb> hi ed
[13:19] <Laurenceb> I've got some of the pins on the radio board reversed :(
[13:19] <Laurenceb> its fixable but it will look a little messy
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[15:47] <Laurenceb> jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
[15:48] <Laurenceb> oh god sorry, pliers fell on my keyboard
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[15:50] <Laurenceb> hi
[15:54] <prpplague> Laurenceb: greetings
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[16:06] <Laurenceb> did you get my email?
[16:08] <prpplague> Laurenceb: yea, thanks
[16:08] <Laurenceb> beware, the header "NTX2A" is a mirror
[16:08] <Laurenceb> :(
[16:08] <prpplague> Laurenceb: haven't had time to look at ti though
[16:09] <Laurenceb> it can be fixed with a few little wires, but its messy :(
[16:09] <prpplague> Laurenceb: i did a small decoder last night for the RTTY stuff
[16:09] <prpplague> Laurenceb: i can decode a bit stream
[16:10] <Laurenceb> a bit stream?
[16:10] <prpplague> Laurenceb: i'm hope'n to have some time this evening to try and use the ADC on the hammer to sample the audio and convert to a bitstream
[16:10] <Laurenceb> ok
[16:10] <Laurenceb> wow
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[16:10] <Laurenceb> thats a lot of work :P
[16:10] <Laurenceb> the trick is in the filtering
[16:10] <prpplague> Laurenceb: bitstream wasn't hard
[16:11] <Laurenceb> sure
[16:11] <Laurenceb> thats the easy bit
[16:11] <prpplague> Laurenceb: its the ADC to bitstream that will be difficult
[16:11] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:11] <Laurenceb> FFT its _too_ hard
[16:11] <Laurenceb> but making it work well is
[16:12] <Laurenceb> arrrg lemo connectors are a pain
[16:13] <prpplague> Laurenceb: for your ground based RTTY, are you using an sound card to capture the audio?
[16:13] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:14] <Laurenceb> I think
[16:14] <prpplague> Laurenceb: is your radio schematic available somewhere ?
[16:14] <Laurenceb> no
[16:14] <prpplague> :(
[16:14] <prpplague> Laurenceb: don't suppose you could post it on the elinux wiki?
[16:14] <Laurenceb> no
[16:15] <prpplague> bummer
[16:15] <prpplague> Laurenceb: trade secrets eh?
[16:16] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[16:16] <prpplague> jcoxon: greetings
[16:16] <jcoxon> hey prpplague
[16:17] <Laurenceb> hey jcoxon
[16:17] <prpplague> jcoxon: whats cookin today?
[16:18] <jcoxon> not much
[16:18] <jcoxon> just had a fun day working
[16:18] <jcoxon> though got off early
[16:24] <prpplague> jcoxon: hey, what radio receiver do you guys use for downlink rtty ?
[16:24] <jcoxon> Yaesu ft790r
[16:25] <jcoxon> they are quite old but are very good at their job
[16:26] <prpplague> ahh
[16:26] Action: Laurenceb has assembles two lemo connectors
[16:26] <Laurenceb> arrrg my fingers
[16:30] <Laurenceb> avoid them!
[16:31] <jcoxon> prpplague, so tempted to do a balloon launch?
[16:33] <prpplague> jcoxon: tempted but i don't have the time or the resources at the stage, i'm mainly doing research
[16:33] <jcoxon> cool
[16:34] <jcoxon> well feel free to add anything to the ukhas wiki
[16:34] <jcoxon> (its not just for uk)
[16:34] <prpplague> jcoxon: i've been reading up about how NASA has been trying to reverse engineer alot of the space tech that was developed back in the 1960's
[16:34] <jcoxon> mmm interesting
[16:34] <prpplague> jcoxon: because alot of it was classified not many of the developers wrote whitepapers or community oriented documentation
[16:35] <prpplague> jcoxon: so a giant amount of knowledge has been lost
[16:35] <Laurenceb> :(
[16:36] <Laurenceb> so stupid
[16:36] <Laurenceb> opensource is the way
[16:36] <prpplague> indeed, if there ever was a better case for opensource, i don't know of it
[16:37] <prpplague> jcoxon: i've been investing the apollo guidance computer and implementations in small systems like that hammer
[16:37] <prpplague> jcoxon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
[16:38] <prpplague> jcoxon: a salvage yard in houston is suppose to have a couple, but they want $30K for them
[16:39] <jcoxon> well they certainly worked on the day
[16:39] <jcoxon> its funny the way that they are going backwards
[16:39] <prpplague> indeed
[16:39] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:aerosol
[16:41] Action: prpplague looks
[16:42] <prpplague> Laurenceb: nice
[16:42] <Laurenceb> a bit over exposed
[16:43] <prpplague> jcoxon: my "hobby" at the momment is looking into making a generic computing brick for manned space missions
[16:43] <jcoxon> good work
[16:43] <jcoxon> prpplague, oh right
[16:43] <jcoxon> rad hardened?
[16:43] <prpplague> jcoxon: did i already torture you with the details?
[16:43] <jcoxon> don't think so
[16:44] <prpplague> jcoxon: yea, rad-hard
[16:44] <prpplague> jcoxon: basically a generic computing brick that can be used in navigation, enviromental control, solar panel operations, power control, as well as thruster operations
[16:44] <prpplague> jcoxon: same brick, just different set of firmware
[16:44] <jcoxon> cool
[16:45] <prpplague> jcoxon: that way you only have to take one type of spare part
[16:45] <prpplague> jcoxon: and in worst cases you could yank a brick from one thing to use in another
[16:45] <prpplague> jcoxon: i.e. an accident happend and you need enviromental control but not thruster control
[16:46] <prpplague> jcoxon: anyway, just a crazy idea i play with when i have time
[16:47] <prpplague> jcoxon: thus my research into the types of operations for near-space devices
[16:47] <prpplague> more or less an arm-chair space wannabie
[16:48] <jcoxon> aren't we all
[16:48] <jcoxon> sounds like a brilliant idea
[16:50] <prpplague> hopefully by this time next year i'll have some prototypes made with some more understanding of the type of tasks needed
[16:51] <prpplague> the hammer module is a good start
[16:51] <prpplague> but i'd like to have something a little more packaged
[16:51] <Laurenceb> right gtg
[16:51] <prpplague> Laurenceb: later, nice work on the radio
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[17:11] <natrium42> oooh, http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=13965
[17:11] Action: natrium42 orders
[17:12] <jcoxon> sweet
[17:12] <jcoxon> but
[17:12] <jcoxon> tis sirf III
[17:12] <jcoxon> :(
[17:15] <prpplague> natrium42: nice looking device
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[17:41] <natrium42> jcoxon, yes, but it's so tiny
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[17:41] <natrium42> maybe i can reflash it
[17:42] <jcoxon> true
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[17:44] <Hiena> Good evening!
[17:47] <natrium42> done
[17:47] <natrium42> also got a few smt antennas
[17:48] <natrium42> i wonder how well they work
[17:48] <natrium42> hey Hiena
[17:57] <prpplague> natrium42: that one posted on SFE works pretty darn well
[17:58] <prpplague> natrium42: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8418
[17:58] <prpplague> natrium42: we've used it in some handhelds
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[18:57] <Hiena> Bleh.... I hate this. I just spent 1 hour to creating tutorial mails, to the BTU Airplanes and Ships Department member. Also, i found a nice aerodyn computation tool, which is too cool, but i know, i'll never had enough time to use...
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[19:41] <natrium42> prpplague, what gps chipset did you use with it?
[19:42] <prpplague> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7951
[19:43] <prpplague> natrium42: we are planning on testing this one - http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8291
[19:43] <natrium42> and did it get good reception with the trimble?
[19:43] <natrium42> or did you have to point it at the sky, etc..?
[19:44] <prpplague> natrium42: yea it got good reception, without having to orientate towards the sky
[19:44] <natrium42> neat
[19:44] <prpplague> natrium42: but our requirements are very minimal
[19:44] <natrium42> because you never know how the payload lands :P
[19:44] <prpplague> hehe indeed
[19:45] <natrium42> i used the geohelix antenna for that reason
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