highaltitude.log.20080129

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[10:01] <Laurenceb> hi all
[10:02] <Laurenceb> Hi Simon-MPFH
[10:02] <Laurenceb> got your email
[10:03] <Laurenceb> we should really meet up some time :P pity I'm down in oxford atm
[10:04] <Simon-MPFH> Indeed
[10:06] <Simon-MPFH> I do get down there occasionally so I will let you know
[10:06] <Simon-MPFH> What are you studying at Uni?
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[11:03] <Laurenceb> hi again
[11:03] <Laurenceb> sorry was at a lecture
[11:04] <edmoore> aren't we always
[11:04] <Laurenceb> at least I just have to go into the next room
[11:04] <Laurenceb> its a bit sad really
[11:04] <Laurenceb> Simon-MPFH: physics
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[11:37] Action: Laurenceb realises you have to initialise the adc for it to work
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[11:50] <Laurenceb> hmm the daughtboard finally seems to work
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[13:53] <prpplague> greetings earthlings
[13:54] <edmoore> hello
[13:54] <prpplague> edmoore: whats cookin today?
[13:55] <edmoore> I'm about to head down the road to fnoble to design the pcb for the new flight computer
[13:55] <edmoore> and I've just got the most wonderful book out of the university library - Strapdown Inertial Navigation Technology
[13:55] <edmoore> so some nice bedtime reading
[13:55] <edmoore> you?
[13:56] <prpplague> edmoore: battery charging and power control board software for a pda design, booooorrrinnnggg
[13:57] <edmoore> boring but important
[13:57] <edmoore> like my lectures :)
[13:57] <prpplague> hehe
[13:57] <Simon-MPFH> Where's a good source of nichrome wire? I'm going to do some foam cutting...
[13:58] <prpplague> edmoore: yea, well, our new EE is making my life hard, instead of using some one chip solutions, he's got a hodge-podge of stuff
[13:58] <edmoore> any reason?
[13:58] <prpplague> edmoore: for not using a single chip solution?
[13:59] <edmoore> Simon-MPFH: anywhere like maplin has it. Or good hardware stores
[13:59] <edmoore> prpplague: yeah
[13:59] <Simon-MPFH> Maplin - used to be so good and now it's just about pimping one's ride. They haven't even got a panel voltmeter in the catalogue anymore :-(
[13:59] <prpplague> edmoore: no, he's never done handheld designs before, mostly embedded telecom stuff, so he's still in the mindset that he has all the power he'll ever need
[14:00] <edmoore> Simon-MPFH: Tell me about it. They're useless
[14:00] <edmoore> rapid are my heros now
[14:01] <edmoore> prpplague: lol
[14:02] <edmoore> The annoying thing is that having 60 hours of battery life on balloon payloads is trivial now, so you kind of tend not to bother optimising power consumption beyond the basics
[14:02] <edmoore> I want to only have 500mAh. That'd force me into being creative
[14:03] <prpplague> edmoore: yea, our primary goal is to have the handheld run two 8 hour shifts without recharging
[14:04] <edmoore> so is this the same company that makes the hammer?
[14:07] <prpplague> edmoore: parent company
[14:07] <edmoore> ok cool
[14:08] <prpplague> edmoore: tincantools, the maker of the hammer, is a spin off of American Microsystems, http://www.amltd.com
[14:08] <prpplague> edmoore: aml does alot of handheld and embedded designs
[14:08] <prpplague> edmoore: and in the course of developement, we do a lot of prototype designs
[14:09] <edmoore> awesome. cool products
[14:09] <prpplague> edmoore: after the project is completed the prototype designs usually go to storage
[14:09] <prpplague> edmoore: tincantools was created to market cool prototype designs that were initially used for product development
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[15:20] <edmoore> hello all
[15:52] <Laurenceb> hi ed
[15:53] <Laurenceb> I'm making an unshielded ant for my radio
[15:53] <Laurenceb> whats the equation for the lenght?
[15:53] <Laurenceb> other than 1/4 lambda
[16:17] <edmoore> dunno
[16:18] <Laurenceb> its recognised by the programmer :D
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[16:20] <Laurenceb> hey jcoxon
[16:20] <jcoxon> hello Laurenceb
[16:21] <Laurenceb> I'm going to a bae systems presentation this evening :P
[16:22] <Laurenceb> free food :D
[16:22] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[16:22] <jcoxon> cool
[16:22] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[16:22] <edmoore> am in fnoble's room
[16:22] <edmoore> we're pcbing
[16:22] <jcoxon> gosh you are cool
[16:22] <jcoxon> :-p
[16:22] <Laurenceb> how?
[16:23] <Laurenceb> etch tank?
[16:23] <Laurenceb> or eagle :P
[16:50] <Laurenceb> arrg i am so stupid sometimes
[16:50] <Laurenceb> my radio wouldnt work, cuz I hadnt reset the fusebits from the default settings
[16:52] <prpplague> edmoore: did fnoble have any thoughts on using the hammer?
[16:53] <edmoore> we're exhausting the arm7 first, I think. Being strict withourselves, 'n' all.
[16:53] <edmoore> He's the voice of reason
[16:55] <Laurenceb> I have a working radio board :P
[16:55] <Laurenceb> anyone want to buy one :D
[16:55] <prpplague> edmoore: indeed i didn't expect you to switch over any time soon
[16:55] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, how do you test it?
[16:55] <prpplague> edmoore: i was more interested in feasibility
[16:55] <Laurenceb> I havent fully tested it
[16:56] <Laurenceb> it jut seems to be working initially
[16:56] <Laurenceb> I havent got the radiometrix module yet
[16:56] <edmoore> but we're def interested
[16:56] <edmoore> fed up with faffing around trying to write file systems
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[16:57] <edmoore> right, back later. it's pub time
[16:57] <edmoore> s/pcb-design/pub
[16:57] <jcoxon> slacker
[16:57] <edmoore> :wq
[16:57] <Laurenceb> hmmm it seems to be saying 0 to 154 lenght pwm
[16:58] <Laurenceb> but thats probably a typo
[16:58] <Laurenceb> lol @ jcoxon
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[16:58] <Laurenceb> I'll see if I can get a photo of the little beasty
[16:59] <prpplague> hehe
[16:59] <prpplague> thoughts and/or comments on usage of the Hammer for these types of projects are welcome from anyone
[17:00] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking if I can find a command line rtty program
[17:00] <prpplague> i'd like to see a CANSAT version using the hammer
[17:00] <jcoxon> prpplague, its certainly doable
[17:00] <Laurenceb> then it could be cross compiled to run on a Hammer or avr32 board
[17:00] <Laurenceb> and you could have uplink
[17:01] <prpplague> Laurenceb: i'm not familiar with rtty, what is that?
[17:01] <jcoxon> its a radio transmission mode
[17:02] <prpplague> ahh
[17:02] <Laurenceb> grr someone has abducted the camera
[17:02] <jcoxon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioteletype
[17:02] Action: prpplague makes a note to do some googlin on it
[17:02] <prpplague> jcoxon: ahh thanks
[17:02] <jcoxon> its more complicated then morse
[17:02] <jcoxon> but its better in many ways
[17:03] <Laurenceb> I'm using 8 bit, IIRC the wiki page is talking about 5 bit
[17:04] <prpplague> i assume you've looked at this - http://www.w1hkj.com/Fldigi-2.x.html
[17:04] <Laurenceb> yes lol
[17:04] <Laurenceb> I cross compiled it to amd64 :D
[17:04] <Laurenceb> your welcome to a binary if your interested
[17:05] <prpplague> Laurenceb: hehe, np, just curious
[17:05] <Laurenceb> I'm intending to use it with our ground station
[17:06] <Laurenceb> the dept here are keen on their own complete sonde launching setup
[17:06] <prpplague> Laurenceb: so you want to use the rtty as an uplink as well as a down link?
[17:06] <Laurenceb> ideally
[17:07] <prpplague> Laurenceb: currently its only as a down link?
[17:07] <Laurenceb> yep
[17:07] <prpplague> Laurenceb: i mean with your current design
[17:07] <prpplague> Laurenceb: ahh
[17:08] Action: prpplague grabs a copy of the source to look at
[17:08] <Laurenceb> arrggg
[17:08] <Laurenceb> you dont want to be doing that
[17:09] <Laurenceb> its a horrible mountainous project
[17:09] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, if you need some testing, i've now got a radio
[17:09] <Laurenceb> we have one thanx
[17:09] <Laurenceb> a very nice usb one
[17:09] <jcoxon> oh okay
[17:09] <jcoxon> icom?
[17:09] <Laurenceb> think so
[17:10] <Laurenceb> its a small black thing, no controls, designed to be run from a pc
[17:10] <Laurenceb> its basically a 100khz to 2GHz os so scanner
[17:10] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:11] <Laurenceb> its nice to have lots of money to spend :D
[17:11] <prpplague> Laurenceb: actually the code looks pretty well formated and lots of comments
[17:11] <Laurenceb> true
[17:11] <Laurenceb> theres just a ton of it
[17:11] <Laurenceb> (by my standards)
[17:12] <prpplague> hehe, not that bad for size, hehe
[17:12] <Laurenceb> brb, going on a camera hunt
[17:12] <prpplague> Laurenceb: i'd probably grab the main source for the rtty stuff and convert it to c and do some tweaking
[17:12] <prpplague> Laurenceb: looks doable
[17:14] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:14] <Laurenceb> it would be so cool
[17:15] <Laurenceb> to have it running on a linux board
[17:25] <prpplague> Laurenceb: some interesting stuff
[17:25] <prpplague> Laurenceb: looks like i have a new weekend project to play with
[17:25] <prpplague> Laurenceb: just grabbed an ogg file from wikipedia
[17:26] <Laurenceb> :D
[17:28] <prpplague> Laurenceb: using the hammer, we could use a receiver to drop the freq down, then use the adc to sample and decode
[17:28] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:28] <Laurenceb> thats the general principle
[17:28] <prpplague> Laurenceb: you use a sound card to sample your rtty output?
[17:28] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:29] <Laurenceb> but you could use an ac97 ic
[17:29] <Laurenceb> lol: the exomars wind sensors on the bench next to me have a huge sign saying "do not touch"
[17:30] <prpplague> Laurenceb: yea the hammer doesn't have any audio support perse, but we could either use a usb audio device or just just use the adc lines
[17:30] <prpplague> Laurenceb: hehe
[17:30] <prpplague> Laurenceb: i know a few folks that do SDR stuff
[17:30] <jcoxon> prpplague, does it have a DAC?
[17:30] <Laurenceb> they are very cool, only about 2mm long
[17:30] <Laurenceb> its quite awsome that they will be heading off to mars in a few years
[17:31] <prpplague> jcoxon: no, just ADC, we could add an external DAC easy
[17:31] <prpplague> Laurenceb: that ogg file on wikipedia, is that typical of what you are feeding into the audio card?
[17:32] <Laurenceb> I would think so
[17:32] <Laurenceb> havent heard it
[17:32] <Laurenceb> grrr I cant find any good guidance on making antenna
[17:33] <Laurenceb> I need some proper equations
[17:33] <prpplague> Laurenceb: hmm, seems like circuitcellar had a new article recently on antenna design
[17:33] Action: prpplague looks
[17:36] <Laurenceb> you have to subscribe
[17:37] <prpplague> Laurenceb: no you can just purchase the article if you want - http://www.circuitcellar.com/magazine/
[17:37] <Laurenceb> bah
[17:37] <Laurenceb> sorry
[17:38] <prpplague> Laurenceb: $5 for the pdf version
[17:38] <Laurenceb> right
[17:39] <Laurenceb> hmm it looks like its not a big effect
[17:39] <Laurenceb> just 1/4 wavelenght works quite well
[17:39] <Laurenceb> and you probably cant optimise it much by going a little off
[17:41] <Laurenceb> my radio is 5 grams :P
[17:47] <Laurenceb> I've gtg
[17:48] <Laurenceb> were shutting up shop here :D
[17:49] <prpplague> Laurenceb: later
[17:49] <Laurenceb> cya
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[18:02] <jcoxon> wohoooo
[18:02] <jcoxon> got my radio working
[18:11] <prpplague> jcoxon: fun fun
[18:11] <jcoxon> its very simple, i'm not really a radio guy
[18:26] <prpplague> jcoxon: for use with rtty?
[18:28] <jcoxon> no
[18:28] <jcoxon> its a morse one
[18:28] <jcoxon> basically its a radio module attached to a 555 timer to give it a 1hz pulse, and then when the payload wants to send data it pulls the reset to gnd and then toggles the radio module instead
[18:28] <prpplague> interesting
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[18:36] <jcoxon> bbl
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[18:38] <prpplague> natrium42: greetigns
[18:38] <natrium42> hi
[18:39] <natrium42> got a break between lectures
[18:40] <prpplague> natrium42: fun fun
[18:41] <prpplague> natrium42: been talking to laurenceb about doing rtty on the hammer
[18:41] <prpplague> natrium42: interesting stuff
[18:41] <natrium42> would be cool if you made a fpga/arm combo board ;)
[18:42] <natrium42> i have been thinking of making one myself with a few CMOS cameras to boot
[18:42] <natrium42> and run some optical algorithms on the FPGA
[18:42] <prpplague> natrium42: yea we discussed that yesterday
[18:42] <prpplague> natrium42: the s3e would be a good choice
[18:43] <natrium42> yah
[18:43] <natrium42> or virtex with powerpc core1
[18:43] <natrium42> though i am not sure, it probably draws too much power and is $$$
[18:44] <prpplague> yea thats pretty pricy
[18:44] <prpplague> natrium42: the s3e is mid range, we can get those OEM fairly inexpensive
[18:45] <prpplague> natrium42: easy to intergrate
[18:45] <natrium42> then again, perhaps we don't need all the features
[18:45] <natrium42> maybe a cheaper actel fpga?
[18:46] <natrium42> those also use less power afaik
[18:46] <prpplague> indeed
[18:46] <prpplague> i've not looked into it in detail as of yet
[18:46] <prpplague> got two other boards in the pipe that i'm trying to finish up
[18:46] <prpplague> a thumb drive type board, and a robotics board
[18:47] <natrium42> nice
[18:47] <natrium42> i am working on an adapter for nintendo ds
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[18:48] <Hiena> ' setet!
[18:48] <natrium42> it's pretty challenging to do university, projects and work at the same time
[18:48] <Hiena> Khm... Good evening!
[18:48] <natrium42> but it's better than doing nothing :)
[18:48] <natrium42> hey Hiena
[18:49] <Hiena> How are you?
[18:49] <natrium42> pretty good, yourself?
[18:51] <Hiena> Tired. Spent the whole day cableing ans I was on yet another job interview.
[18:53] <natrium42> cool, who are you interviewing with?
[18:54] <Hiena> Kelly Services, an headhunter company. I need some decent job, but has no luck, yet...
[18:56] <natrium42> ah, microsoft used them when i interviewed there
[18:56] <natrium42> what is your education?
[19:09] <Hiena> High-school degree, with several training. At first i'm IT technician, unlicenced aircraft mechanic, and programmer.
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[19:13] <Hiena> Basically, a joker for a start-up R&D company. I could build anything from the microcontroller based circuits, up to the airframe or engines. The problem is the lack of the R&D companies here.
[19:13] <natrium42> cool
[19:13] <natrium42> you are in hungary, right?
[19:13] <Hiena> Yup.
[19:14] <natrium42> does hungary produce aircraft?
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[00:00] --- Wed Jan 30 2008